Podcast
Leveraging Thought Leadership
Hosted by Peter Winick and Bill Sherman · EN
Hear from the people whose ideas shape the business world. Learn what their public stories leave out. Our beat: the business of thought leadership and the people who take
ideas to scale. Fortune 500 CEOs. New York Times bestselling authors. Thinkers50 honorees. NSA Hall of Fame speakers. Top business school professors. First-time authors. Emerging keynote speakers. Their support: publishers, speaking coaches, PR experts. We ask thought leaders to share generously. And they don't hold back. How did they get here? What nearly stopped them? What did they learn? And what keeps them
going? Your co-hosts, Peter Winick and Bill Sherman of Thought Leadership Leverage, bring two decades of experience working with thought leadership practitioners. We've woven stories from 700+ episodes, our frameworks, and the tools we use every day into The Thought Leadership Handbook. Learn how the experts take their big ideas to scale—and how you can too.
11episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Why Authentic Stories Matter More Than Ever in an AI World | Gabrielle Dolan | 719
1w ago00:38:11Tap to summarizeWhat do you do when you've found a powerful idea — but the market thinks it's silly? Gabrielle Dolan (known to almost everyone as "Ral") noticed something in the corridors of corporate Australia: the leaders who moved people, who made change land, who made ideas stick — they all told stories. The data nerds and slide-deck merchants were losing the room. The storytellers were winning it. So she did something that seemed a little mad at the time: she left a senior role at National Australia Bank to teach business storytelling professionally. The reaction from the market? Something between skepticism and outright dismissal. Clients who hired her asked if they could quietly call it "influencing skills" instead — because saying "storytelling training" would guarantee no one showed up. In this conversation, Bill Sherman draws out the full arc of Ral's journey — and it's one every thought leader building something new should hear. There were nearly nine months with no clients. A business partner she eventually parted ways with. Years of revenue that barely registered. And then a turning point she still can't fully explain, when sales quintupled in a single year — triggered, in part, by her husband's quiet confession that he was desperately unhappy in his corporate job. That gave her a reason to run faster than she thought she could. The conversation gets particularly rich when they dig into what it actually means to develop original thought leadership. Ral is clear: you're never starting from scratch. You're always standing on someone else's thinking. What makes ideas yours is where you push back, where you adapt, and how you deliver concepts in your own voice and with your own experience. She describes this with a perfect cooking metaphor — Jamie Oliver's slow-roast lamb, tweaked until it becomes your signature dish. And then there's AI. When Ral started hearing workshop participants ask whether AI would replace storytelling, she was alarmed. Her latest book, Story Intelligence, is her answer to that question — and it's more nuanced than a simple "no." AI can help you find and refine your stories. What it cannot do is replace the authenticity that makes a story land. In a world where everything is starting to sound the same, your own voice is the one thing that cannot be replicated. For anyone building a thought leadership platform around an idea that isn't obvious yet — this episode is a masterclass in what it takes to stay the course. Three Key Takeaways: • Educating the market is part of the job. When Ral launched her storytelling practice in 2005, she spent nearly a year with no clients — not because the idea was wrong, but because the market didn't believe it yet. If you're building thought leadership around an idea ahead of its time, selling and educating are the same work. • Your thought leadership starts with "yes, and" — not from scratch. Ral never claimed to have invented storytelling. She read everything, absorbed the best of it, and then pushed back where it didn't fit the corporate world she knew. Original IP isn't about starting from zero. It's about finding where you genuinely disagree, and going deeper there. • Authentic stories are your competitive edge in an AI world. When workshop participants started asking whether AI would replace storytelling, Ral was alarmed — and that alarm became her latest book. AI can help you refine a story. It cannot replace the trust that comes from a story only you could tell. In a world of AI-generated content that's starting to sound identical, your voice is the one thing that can't be replicated. If this conversation sparked your thinking about storytelling as a leadership skill, check out our episode with David Hutchens — CEO of Mythos Global and author of Story Dash. David has spent his career building the practical tools that make business storytelling teachable and repeatable: his Taxonomy of Stories and Story Deck frameworks help leaders find and activate the stories they most need to be telling. Where Ral's episode is about the conviction it takes to build a thought leadership platform around storytelling, David's is the hands-on how.
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The Opus Way: Fueling Ambition Without Burnout | Janine Mathó | 718
2w ago00:19:58Tap to summarizeWhat if ambition is not the problem—but the way we fuel it is? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Peter Winick speaks with Janine Mathó, author of "Live Your Opus", about the Opus Way: a framework designed to help high achievers build healthy, meaningful careers without lowering their ambition. Janine challenges the old tradeoff between success and sustainability. Her message is clear. You do not need less ambition. You need the energy, systems, and self-awareness to support it. Her work helps leaders understand how they operate under pressure. It gives them practical language for stress, change, burnout, and performance. It also helps teams see where energy is being spent, where it is being drained, and how leadership behavior shapes culture. Janine also shares how her tools are evolving from individual development into organizational capability. Her diagnostics, change continuum, and Opus 8 energy framework help leaders identify what is happening beneath the surface. Why decisions stall. Why teams struggle. Why people overextend. And why performance cannot scale when energy is ignored. Peter and Janine explore what it takes to turn thought leadership into a business model. The book serves the individual. The advisory work targets the top of the house. The bigger opportunity is helping organizations build internal capacity, embed the frameworks, and eventually use the work without Janine in every room. This conversation is about more than well-being. It is about leadership strategy. It is about sustainable ambition. And it is about creating tools that help people perform under pressure without losing themselves in the process. Three Key Takeaways: • Ambition needs energy to sustain it. The episode reframes burnout not as a reason to lower goals, but as a signal that energy, pressure, and performance need to be managed differently. • Leaders need shared language for change and stress. Frameworks like the change continuum and energy archetypes help teams talk clearly about pressure, resistance, overextension, and how people respond differently to change. • Well-being is not separate from leadership strategy. Sustainable performance requires systems, tools, and leadership behaviors that build capacity across the organization—not just individual self-care. If this conversation about sustainable ambition, leadership energy, and building capacity under pressure resonated with you, check out our episode with Cassie Solomon. Cassie's work also lives at the intersection of change, leadership, and organizational performance—helping leaders understand why transformation stalls and what it takes to move people forward. Listen in to hear a complementary perspective on how organizations can build the systems, behaviors, and capabilities needed to make change stick.
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How to Find Agency in Times of Instability | Suzan Song | 717
2w ago00:37:01Tap to summarizeWhat if suffering is not a detour from life, but one of the places where meaning begins? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Bill Sherman speaks with Dr. Suzan Song, MD, PhD, about instability, agency, and the human search for groundedness when life breaks open. Her work spans clinical care, global systems, conflict zones, and executive leadership. Her core question is simple and urgent: how do people move through suffering without losing themselves? Dr. Song shares the deeply personal origin of her work. After losing her father to violence as a teenager, she pushed forward through achievement, education, and service. Years later, while working with former child soldiers in Burundi, she found herself in danger and saw the connection between her past and her work. That moment helped her understand the deeper spark behind her mission. Her book, Why We Suffer, grew out of that mission. It is not a promise that life can be made painless. It is a practical look at how people can navigate hardship through narrative, ritual, purpose, connection, and agency. Dr. Song challenges the idea that healing is only individual. Across cultures, she has seen that people heal in relationship. The conversation also explores how instability shows up in leadership. CEOs, executive directors, governments, and communities are all facing rapid change. Funding shifts. Policy changes. War. Burnout. Cognitive fatigue. Dr. Song argues that the antidote to despair is not happiness. It is agency. Bill and Dr. Song discuss how thought leadership can be rooted in service, not ego. For Dr. Song, the work is not about claiming a label. It is about making ideas useful. It is about helping people, organizations, and systems respond to suffering with clarity, humility, and care. This episode is a powerful conversation for leaders, authors, speakers, consultants, and anyone trying to turn hard-earned experience into work that helps others. It asks us to look honestly at suffering. Then it asks an even more important question: what can we do with it? Three Key Takeaways: • Agency is the antidote to despair. When people face instability, the goal is not to force happiness. It is to find small, meaningful actions that restore a sense of control. • Suffering is both personal and collective. Hardship affects individuals, organizations, and communities. Healing often happens through connection, belonging, and shared support. • Resilience is more than pushing through. Real resilience comes from narrative, ritual, purpose, and relationships that help people make meaning and stay grounded during uncertainty. If this episode helped you think differently about instability and agency, listen to Episode 107 with David Komlos. That conversation explores how leaders tackle truly complex problems. You'll learn how to bring the right people and perspectives together, make better decisions, and move forward when there are no simple answers. It's a strong companion episode for anyone leading through uncertainty.
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Founder Readiness: Measuring the Leadership Risk Investors Miss | Logan Yonavjak | 716
3w ago00:20:15Tap to summarizeWhat if the biggest risk in a company is not the strategy, the product, or the market—but the leader's ability to grow fast enough to match the business? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Peter Winick sits down with Logan Yonavjak, founder of the Founders Readiness Institute, to explore a bold idea: leadership capacity can be measured, developed, and used to reduce business risk. Logan's work sits at the intersection of people analytics, vertical development, AI, and executive performance. She is building tools that help investors, boards, and leadership teams understand how founders and executives think, behave, and respond under pressure. This is not traditional assessment work. It is not about labels. It is not about personality typing. It is about readiness. Can a leader handle complexity? Can they adapt? Can they scale with the company? Can they make better decisions when the stakes rise? Peter and Logan dig into why founder readiness matters. Many companies do not fail because the idea is weak. They fail because leadership breaks under scale. A founder who can lead seven people may not be ready to lead seven hundred. Logan's work helps surface those risks earlier—and gives leaders a roadmap to grow. The conversation also explores the business side of thought leadership. Logan shares how she tested her market, interviewed more than 125 venture capitalists, and learned that curiosity does not always equal a buyer. That insight pushed her to refine her positioning and focus on private equity firms, corporate boards, and middle-market companies where execution risk is already a costly pain point. For thought leaders, this episode is a sharp reminder: great IP is not enough. Science is not enough. A compelling model is not enough. The market decides. The buyer decides. And the best founders listen, adapt, and move. This episode is for anyone building a thought leadership platform around a complex, emerging, or category-defining idea. Logan shows what it takes to turn deep expertise into a practical business tool—and why the right go-to-market strategy matters as much as the idea itself. Three Key Takeaways: • Leadership readiness is a business risk issue, not just a people issue. Logan's work reframes founder and executive assessment around risk, scale, and execution. The core question is whether leaders can grow at the same pace as the companies they are building. • Thought leadership needs market validation, not just strong IP. Logan had science, a model, and a compelling idea. But after speaking with more than 125 VCs, she learned that interest does not always equal buying behavior. The market pushed her toward private equity, boards, and middle-market companies. • Strategic partnerships can shorten the sales cycle for complex ideas. Because Logan's work requires education, trust, and context, Peter highlights the value of distribution partners and champions. The right partner can reduce friction, accelerate credibility, and make the idea easier to buy. If Logan Yonavjak's episode made you think differently about founder readiness, leadership risk, and scaling, Jim Adler's episode is the perfect companion listen. Logan explores how leadership capacity can be measured before it becomes a business risk. Jim brings the investor's lens, showing how startups use thought leadership to build credibility, earn trust, and strengthen their market position. Together, they reveal what it really takes to move from promising idea to durable business. Listen to Logan for the human readiness behind scale. Listen to Jim for the investor perspective on startups, value creation, and thought leadership.
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The Economics of Getting What You Want | Judd Kessler | 715
4w ago00:19:11Tap to summarizeWhat if luck is not random, but designed? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Peter Winick sits down with Judd Kessler, Wharton professor and author of "Lucky by Design: The Hidden Economics You Need to Get More of What You Want." Judd's work brings market design out of the academic journal and into daily life. He studies the hidden systems that determine who gets access, who gets opportunity, and who gets left waiting. These systems are everywhere. School programs. Job assignments. Consulting projects. Ticketing platforms. Government services. Nonprofit resources. Even your own time and attention. Judd's thought leadership gives leaders a new lens. First, see the market. Then understand the rules. Then decide whether those rules are helping or hurting the outcomes you want. For organizations, this is not theoretical. Poorly designed internal markets create frustration, waste, and inequity. Better rules can improve allocation, retention, performance, and trust. Peter and Judd explore how a book can move academic insight into practical use. They also dig into the harder work after publication: building an audience, entering the cultural conversation, and turning expertise into influence. This conversation is a sharp look at how thought leadership scales when it makes invisible systems visible. And when it gives people the tools to redesign them. Three Key Takeaways: • See the hidden market. Many opportunities are shaped by invisible systems, from school programs and job assignments to access, attention, and scarce resources. • Design better rules. Poorly built systems create frustration, waste, and unfairness. Better rules lead to smarter outcomes. • Make ideas practical. Strong thought leadership turns complex concepts into tools people and organizations can actually use. If this conversation made you think differently about the hidden rules that shape behavior, go back and listen to our episode with Luke Battye. Both episodes explore how people make decisions inside systems they often do not see. Judd Kessler looks at hidden markets, scarcity, and the rules that determine who gets what. Luke Battye looks at behavior change, design thinking, and how small shifts in context can change what people do next. Together, these episodes give you a sharper lens for understanding systems, incentives, and behavior. You'll walk away with practical ways to design better outcomes for customers, teams, and organizations.
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Permanence: How Leaders Sustain Success Without Losing Themselves | Lisa Broderick | 714
May 2400:21:19Tap to summarizeWhat if success is not the hard part? Lisa Broderick, Managing Partner of Conversus Group, and co-author of Permanence with Marshall Goldsmith, brings a practical answer to one of leadership's most overlooked problems: how to stay the person you want to be after success arrives. Most leadership advice focuses on achievement. Hit the goal. Grow the company. Build the platform. Scale the impact. But Lisa's work asks a sharper question. What happens to your behavior, identity, and relationships once the pressure of success starts to reshape you? In this conversation, Lisa unpacks the power of daily questions. Not vague reflection. Not motivational slogans. A simple, measurable practice that helps leaders notice their behavior in real time. That noticing creates agency. Agency creates change. The breakthrough is in the wording. "Did I do my best?" is different from "Did I succeed?" It removes perfection from the equation. It puts ownership back in the leader's hands. And it makes behavior change sustainable. Lisa also shares how accountability changes everything. Leaders shifted their actions during the day because they knew someone would ask. Not an app. Not a dashboard. A person. That human connection made the work harder to ignore and easier to sustain. This episode is a powerful look at thought leadership in action. Lisa and Marshall are not just sharing ideas. They are turning research, coaching, behavioral science, and real-world executive practice into a framework leaders can use immediately. For CEOs, coaches, advisors, and thought leaders, this conversation is a reminder that success can create drift. One small compromise at a time. The right questions can bring leaders back to intention, clarity, and permanence. Three Key Takeaways: •Sustainable success requires more than achievement. Lisa Broderick's work focuses on what happens after leaders become successful. The danger is "identity drift"—small compromises that slowly pull leaders away from who they want to be. • The right questions create real behavior change. Daily questions like "Did I do my best?" shift the focus from perfection to effort, ownership, and awareness. That makes change more practical, measurable, and sustainable. • Accountability makes thought leadership actionable. The practice worked because leaders knew someone would ask. Human accountability turned reflection into action and helped leaders change their behavior in real time. Lisa Broderick shows how daily questions and human accountability help leaders create lasting behavior change. Adam Fridman takes that idea further, showing how small habits can be built and scaled across teams and organizations. Listen to Lisa's episode to understand why change starts with awareness. Then listen to Adam's to see how daily habits turn into measurable business impact.
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The Business Behind the Keynote | Andy Freed | 713
May 2100:19:37Tap to summarizeWhat separates a paid speaker from a true professional in the thought leadership business? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Peter Winick sits down with Andy Freed to unpack what it really takes to build a sustainable speaking business. Andy brings the perspective of a speaker bureau veteran, entrepreneur, founder of Virtual Inc, and author of Lead Like the Boss. His lens is practical, direct, and grounded in what clients actually buy. Andy makes one thing clear: being good on stage is not enough. It is table stakes. Great speakers need sharp video, clear market positioning, and proof that they can deliver value in different formats. Big stages matter. So do boardrooms, executive off-sites, and virtual environments. The conversation digs into what happens before, during, and after the keynote. Andy explains why the "gig" starts long before the speaker walks on stage. Every client call, every prep conversation, every detail matters. The best thought leaders do not show up and perform a canned talk. They listen. They adapt. They speak the client's language. Peter and Andy also explore how a keynote can become the opening move in a larger thought leadership business. That might include consulting, advisory work, training, leadership development, or deeper client partnerships. Andy's answer is direct: nail the keynote first. Deliver so much value that the client naturally asks, "What else do you do?" They also tackle shorter keynotes, changing audience expectations, the role of books in speaker fees, and the pressure on thought leaders to stay relevant. Andy reminds us that longevity in speaking requires renewal. Your core ideas may be evergreen. But your examples, applications, and relevance need to evolve with the world. For speakers, authors, consultants, and experts who want to turn thought leadership into revenue, this episode is a practical look at what separates amateurs from professionals. Three Key Takeaways: • Great speaking is only the starting point. Professional speakers also need strong positioning, clear marketing, and credible video that proves they can deliver. • The keynote starts before the stage. Prep calls, client language, audience needs, and customization can make or break the outcome. • Relevance drives longevity. Thought leaders need to refresh their examples, applications, and delivery so their core ideas stay connected to what clients face today. Enjoyed Andy Freed's take on building a professional speaking business? Then listen to Peter's conversation with Keld Jensen. Both episodes go beyond the keynote. Andy focuses on positioning, video, client prep, and creating value before and after the stage. Keld adds a global view on standing out, using books strategically, and building demand in the market. Together, they show what buyers value, what speakers need to prove, and how thought leaders can turn expertise into sustainable revenue.
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Why Great Speakers Need More Than a Great Talk | Martin Perelmuter | 712
May 1400:21:05Tap to summarizeWhat separates a great speaker from a true thought leadership business? In this episode, Peter Winick sits down with Martin Perelmuter, co-founder of Speakers Spotlight and a longtime leader in the professional speaking industry, to unpack what it really takes to build a sustainable speaking platform. Not just a great talk. Not just a strong stage presence. A real business. Martin makes the case that excellence on stage is only the beginning. It is table stakes. The real leverage comes from positioning, preparation, market demand, and the ability to turn every engagement into a high-trust client experience. They explore why video is now one of the most important assets for any speaker or thought leader. A strong speaker reel is no longer optional. It is proof. It helps buyers sell you internally. It shows range. It shows confidence. And it shows whether you can deliver in front of 2,000 people or 20 executives in a boardroom. Peter and Martin also dig into the moments most speakers overlook. The pre-event call. The language of the client's industry. The follow-up. The difference between serving the event and trying to sell too soon. Martin's view is clear: nail the keynote first. Create so much value that the client asks, "What else do you do?" The conversation also challenges common assumptions about fees, books, and fame. A bestseller can help. A platform can help. But the market ultimately decides. Demand, value, and outcomes matter more than credentials alone. For thought leaders, the biggest takeaway is this: speaking is not just performance. It is a business discipline. The best speakers keep refining their content, updating their relevance, and connecting their evergreen ideas to what leaders are facing right now. Three Key Takeaways: • Great speaking is table stakes. A strong business requires more. Martin emphasizes that stage presence matters, but it is only the starting point. Thought leaders also need clear positioning, strong marketing, credible video, and a professional client experience. • The keynote begins before the speaker steps on stage. Every touchpoint shapes the client's confidence. The pre-event call, industry language, audience context, and preparation all determine whether the talk feels generic or deeply relevant. • Relevance is what keeps a thought leader in demand. Evergreen ideas still matter, but speakers must continually refresh their content. They need to connect their core expertise to today's issues, including AI, remote work, economic uncertainty, and rapid change. If Martin Perelmuter's episode got you thinking about speaking as more than a performance, Jeff Kavanaugh's episode takes that idea inside the enterprise. Both conversations focus on what it takes to turn expertise into a real thought leadership platform. Martin looks at the professional speaking business. Jeff explores how organizations build institutional thought leadership that earns trust, creates influence, and supports growth. Listen to Jeff Kavanaugh's episode to hear how companies can move beyond one-off content and create a disciplined thought leadership function with strategy, structure, and commercial impact.
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From Executive Role to Leadership Philosophy | Ahmet Bozer | 711
May 1000:48:40Tap to summarizeWhat happens when a global executive finally has the freedom to say what matters most? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Bill Sherman sits down with Ahmet Bozer, former global business executive and author of Soulgery, to explore what comes after a career of leading at scale. Retirement gave Ahmet something rare: time, perspective, and the freedom to turn decades of leadership experience into a deeper contribution. Ahmet shares why writing a book was not a vanity project. It was a commitment. A way to distill what he had learned about meaning, resilience, contribution, human connection, and lifelong growth. For him, leadership is not a title. It is a way of being. Bill and Ahmet dig into the discipline behind turning hard-won experience into thought leadership. Ahmet explains the quality standards he used for his book: useful, legitimate, action-inspiring, clear, fluid, and accessible. The result is a leadership philosophy built to serve real people in real life. The conversation also explores what many retired executives discover: writing the book is only the beginning. Ahmet is now thinking about platforms, partnerships, apps, institutions, and education. His goal is not simply to sell a book. It is to help ideas live beyond him. This episode is a powerful look at executive thought leadership after the C-suite. It is about contribution, scale, humility, and the courage to let an idea leave your hands and take root in the lives of others. Three Key Takeaways: • Leadership is a way of being, not just a role. Ahmet Bozer argues that true leadership starts with self-cultivation: meaning, contribution, human connection, resilience, and continuous growth. • A book is only the beginning of thought leadership. For Ahmet, Soldry is not just a finished asset. It is a platform for impact through an app, institutions, education, and ongoing conversations. • Ideas need both courage and humility to scale. Thought leadership requires sharing hard-earned insights clearly, usefully, and accessibly—while accepting that the idea may evolve and eventually belong to others. If this episode got you thinking about how leadership can live beyond one person, listen next to our conversation "Thought Leadership for Building New Leaders" with Tom Kolditz. Both episodes explore how we create more leaders—not just better executives. Ahmet Bozer focuses on the inner work: meaning, resilience, human connection, and contribution. Tom looks at how institutions can develop leaders at scale. Together, they connect personal leadership growth with systems that help leadership spread.
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Turning Positivity Into a Thought Leadership Business | Ramon Ray | 710
May 700:18:57Tap to summarizeWhat happens when positivity becomes more than a personality trait—and turns into a business asset? In this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, Peter Winick sits down with Ramon Ray, founder of ZoneofGenius.com, author of "The Celebrity CEO", How Entrepreneurs Can Thrive by Building Community and a Strong Personal Brand", speaker, event producer, business coach, and advisor to small business brands. Ramon has built his thought leadership around a clear market position: helping entrepreneurs grow with energy, clarity, personal branding, and practical business strategy. His work spans speaking, live events, content, sponsorships, coaching, and community. But the real lesson is not "be more positive." It is sharper than that. Ramon shows how a distinct personal attribute can become a business advantage when it is connected to a real audience, real value, and real revenue. Peter and Ramon explore how speakers and thought leaders can avoid getting high on their own supply. The job is not to be the star. The job is to serve the client, understand the room, and create value before, during, and after the engagement. They also dig into the business model behind thought leadership. Events can feed coaching. Content can feed sponsorships. Books can feed relationships. A keynote can open doors. The pieces work best when they are connected by a clear brand and a consistent promise. Ramon also shares why books are more than products. They are gifts. They carry authority. They create memory. They keep working long after the launch window closes. This conversation is a practical look at how to turn expertise, energy, and audience trust into a durable thought leadership platform. Three Key Takeaways: • Your personal differentiator has to connect to business value. Ramon's positivity and energy are memorable, but the real power comes from tying those traits to clear outcomes: better events, stronger client relationships, brand sponsorships, coaching, and community growth. • Thought leadership is a connected ecosystem, not one product. Speaking, books, events, content, sponsorships, and coaching all reinforce each other. Each channel can create trust, generate leads, and open the door to another revenue stream. • The best speakers serve the client first. A keynote is not about ego. It is about understanding the audience, making the event host look good, and delivering value that extends beyond the stage. If Ramon Ray's episode got you thinking about how speaking, content, relationships, and personal brand become real business value, listen to Peter's conversation with Jill Schiefelbein next. Both episodes explore how thought leaders turn expertise into revenue through visibility, service, referrals, and smart positioning. Together, Ramon and Jill offer two practical models for building a thought leadership business that is clear, credible, and commercially viable. Listen to Jill's episode here.
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