← LGBTQ Outdoors Podcast
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- [00:00]
Matt Thomas
When you have acceptance in your culture, in your society, the net of it is always positive. Right. There is no negative that comes from acceptance. And that's what frustrates me about whenever I see an unwillingness for people to allow people to be who they want to be and feel supported.
- [00:28]
Justin Yoder
What do you do when you come out as LGBTQ and love the outdoors? What do you do when you see outdoor spaces ruled by older white CIS men and desire a diverse community of outdoor lovers? Accept it, change it, Create it. I am Justin Yoder, and this is LGBTQ Outdoors. Hey, welcome to the LGBTQ Outdoors Podcast. I'm Justin.
- [00:55]
Justin Bickley
I'm Justin Bickley, the partnerships coordinator.
- [00:57]
Patrick Thompson
And I'm Patrick Thompson. Hey, everybody.
- [01:00]
Justin Yoder
Welcome to our podcast. We have, if you are watching on YouTube, a very different setting today. We are not in my office.
- [01:09]
Justin Bickley
And.
- [01:09]
Justin Yoder
We are in beautiful Oregon in the forest, and the sun is shining and the birds are singing, and it is beautiful. And we have a face that a lot have people have not seen with us before. Who are you?
- [01:23]
Justin Bickley
Yeah, I'm Justin. I'm the partnerships coordinator for LGBTQ Outdoors. I'm super stoked to be here. We just finished doing some wildlife restoration stuff, kind of clearing out some invasive species with one of the local organizations here and Brew Doctor folks and super excited about that, meeting some really cool organizations to partner with and. Yeah, just kind of bringing everybody together. It's been awesome.
- [01:49]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, absolutely. We have a couple things that we're doing right now. We are really here to meet with an incredible new partner, which is Brew Doctor, and we're going to be chatting with the founder, Matt Thomas, here in just a second and learning more about him, his passion for the outdoors, and how he. Yeah, he's coming on board with LGBTQ Outdoors, so it's going to be an amazing time. We talk about it a lot, but we love it a lot. LGBTQ Outdoor Fest. Yeah. You're going to be an instructor this year.
- [02:25]
Justin Bickley
I am.
- [02:26]
Justin Yoder
You're finally coming?
- [02:27]
Justin Bickley
Yeah. I'll finally be at LGBTQ Outdoor Fest up in the Catskills, York, and I'm going to be teaching Intro to Pack Rafting, which I'm super excited about. My entire life kind of revolves around pack rafting. As you guys know, the Pack International Pack Graph Film Festival, the Alaska Pack Graph School, and any personal free time that I can get on the river doing that stuff too. So I'm always excited to share that tool for access with anybody that's excited to learn about it. So come to LGBTQ OutdoorFest and learn about Pack crafting with me. I would love to meet all of you and do that.
- [03:02]
Justin Yoder
All three of us are going to be there. I'm going to be doing a workshop on archery. Patrick is going to be making all the lighting and things look fun and cool, and, I don't know, they won't.
- [03:14]
Patrick Thompson
Let me teach anything. It's probably not a good idea.
- [03:19]
Justin Yoder
I think your exact words were more along the lines of, I'm doing so much on the tech side. I don't really have too much time to be involved with everything else.
- [03:27]
Justin Bickley
But, you know, he's got to do the heavy lifting.
- [03:31]
Justin Yoder
Right, Right.
- [03:33]
Patrick Thompson
Very heavy.
- [03:33]
Justin Yoder
Patrick, you know, from the time we started this, partnerships have been incredibly important to us. Like, we. We couldn't do it without it.
- [03:40]
Patrick Thompson
Oh, absolutely.
- [03:41]
Justin Yoder
Touch a little bit on that. And then, like, just as I want to hear from you, like, you are brand new working with us, with our partners.
- [03:48]
Justin Bickley
Yeah.
- [03:49]
Patrick Thompson
So partnerships with LGBTQ Outdoors are essential. We've got to find people who are on board with our mission as an organization and who have the willingness and drive to actually support us. And I say, actually, because there's a difference between, you know, slapping a rainbow flag on a product for Pride Month and saying that we're doing something versus, like, putting your money where your mouth is and. And creating. Well, I don't want to give it away, but actually doing stuff, whether it's financial support, partnering with us like we did today and gathering some of your employees and coming out to join an event, and just, like, partnering, like in the dictionary definition of the word, like, we're working on this together. Um, and so it's essential. And this new partnership, which we're going to talk about, is really mind blowing. We're looking at it yesterday, and it was about five years to the day where we first launched our very first LGBTQ Outdoors Facebook group. And now here we are, traveling to Oregon to meet up with this awesome company. Uh, and just how things have grown is just really, really exciting.
- [05:22]
Justin Yoder
It definitely is. So, as our new, you know, coordinator for all these cool partners, you've been. You've been working your ass off some incredible connections, which we're not going to dive into that right now, necessarily, but just, like, share again, the kind of, from your perspective, why it's important. And, you know, it's not just, like, give us money so we can cool. Do cool shit, which we like doing cool shit, but it's a lot more meaningful than just that.
- [05:47]
Justin Bickley
Yeah. I think a lot of it for me is just, like, finding the people that are on the same like wavelength and on the same like mission and want to support all of this, like support moving forward, support acceptance, support LGBTQ outdoors, all of it. And helping people get outside in those spaces. And that takes money, but it also takes like endorsements from other organizations, nonprofits, which more to come. But companies like the one that we're about to introduce and them putting our logo places and them talking about us and saying that they support us because it is an example of being supportive of the actual community and not just like you said, like putting the rainbow flag on something so that you can get sales. Like, it's way more than that. Like, are you actually here with us? And we're seeing a lot of that kind of stuff getting lost lately in this like socio political world that is developing. But I'm also seeing people come together more and that's really beautiful. And so yes, developing those partnerships that are lasting really have some like heft to them and they're like meaningful and engaged and I love that. And so just kind of having a relationship in that partnership I think is really awesome.
- [07:08]
Patrick Thompson
And one of my favorite things is like, I don't have to BS being a fan, but like I am genuinely like into this company, into their product. Their product is amazing, but the way they produce it, like really, really focused on minimizing waste. Like, they take some of their like fruit pulp and they send it off to, you know, farmers to like have it broken down into compost. They, they sell off some of the byproduct to literally create energy instead of burning like fossil fuels. Like we have this stuff, we don't need it here. Like, it's just lining up on like environmentality sort of aspect. So it's just like win, win, win across the board. And so I can't wait y' all get to chit chat with them.
- [07:57]
Justin Bickley
The like, when we were in the facility getting our tour, they had like the core values, like huge, like pro 50ft by like 50ft, like plastered on the wall where all of the employees can see it. And it's like sustainability, but then right next to it in bigger letters is inclusivity. And that's such a cool thing to see. And so, yeah, I'm super stoked about this one.
- [08:17]
Justin Yoder
It is, Yep. So Justin, being our partnership coordinator, he's going to help me co host this episode. And our guest is Matt Thomas and he is the founder of Brew Dr. Kombucha up here in Portland, Oregon. He has a passion for our planet, for people, for a purpose, credible human being and he, he just wants to make a difference in this world and in our planet and also loves the queer community. So we're excited to have him and we are going to be welcoming him as our guest today. Welcome to the podcast, Matt. We're super excited to have you and learn a little bit more about you today.
- [08:58]
Matt Thomas
Thanks for having me. This is what a great spot to do it, right?
- [09:01]
Justin Yoder
This is for an outdoor podcast. You'd think that we would have done this before, but this is our first time recording it outside, so it's gonna be fun. Share a little bit about who you are. We know that you have a big passion for the outdoors, for inclusivity. You got a couple kids as well, so there's a lot going on in your life. I would love to learn a little bit about you. The man behind Brew Dr.
- [09:25]
Matt Thomas
Okay, sure. Yeah. Well, I'm an Oregonian, right? Born down, just down the freeway, Kaiser, Oregon. You know, escaped to Colorado for a year just to kind of get out of the rain in college and kind of snowboarded a bunch. Didn't get very good grades, spent all my money, you know, the usual story. Came home and went to the University of Oregon and had a wonderful experience there. And my senior year I wrote the business plan around tea as an opportunity. I was in business school there, but I was really a kind of a creative type and business was just like, well, I don't know what else to major in. I'll major in business. Sounds like a good idea. And really what I found was entrepreneurship is just a creative endeavor. And I was always kind of a creative kid. And so it was a real good fit to kind of the idea of creating a business is you're creating kind of a never ending project that you get to work on, right? And I think the Tea Houses, which was my first business, right, Townsend's Tea Company was like the purest, like manifestation of that creativity. Creating those spaces was my original passion. Bringing people in to see everything you could do with tea. Kind of like I said, the hypothesis of the business plan was tea is this opportunity. It's this kind of wide world that a lot of people don't get exposed to. It's a really great blank canvas that different cultures do different things with. And of course, kombucha is one of those things, right? So in about 2008, we started making kombucha at the tea houses just because it was just one more thing to add to the menu, another expression of tea. And we found that we were good at it. So we started Brew doctor. Don't know if I got to all the points to your question, but yeah.
- [11:07]
Justin Yoder
No, I mean, that lays the foundation for it. But you're also big into the outdoors as well, right?
- [11:12]
Matt Thomas
Absolutely. I mean, Oregonian, right. We grew up in a. You're probably taking it for granted level, like Pacific Wonderland. Right. We were always an hour from the beach. We would go over to Lincoln City all the time because that's the straight shot over from the Salem Kaiser area where I grew up. You know, I got into snowboarding and mountain sports in. In kind of middle school and high school. And reason, the reason I picked Colorado was to really, you know, go all in on snowboarding. You know, I. I was an athlete as a kid. Soccer, golf, baseball, just outdoor sports. And, you know, in Oregon, you end up playing in the rain, and it's not so bad. So you also get used to all the versions of nature. And then, you know, in college, you know, I think the most. Most fun we had was like, weekends we'd go out, you know, the McKenzie River Pass or something and find a place to camp and just always had a love of nature. You never feel bad after a hike or a couple nights in the woods, right. Things can go poorly, but, like, you don't come back and be like, man, I'm so stressed out because, you know, I think it's what it's. I'm sure it's scientifically proven, right. If you're hanging out by. In. In nature or by water, it's just good for. It's good for, you know, human composition. It's good for the soul. So I think I was drawn to that feeling probably whether I knew it or not. And then now, yeah, I'm a parent. I've got three sons, 16, 14, and 11. My guys.
- [12:38]
Justin Yoder
Fun ages.
- [12:39]
Matt Thomas
Yeah, incredible ages. And, you know, it's. Parenting is like you have decisions to make. Right. And life's very busy and it's very easy, Right. To give them a device. Right. We didn't really have that as a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s, we had, you know, we had after school cartoons on tv, and that was kind of our version of that. But now a kid can take and take a device in the car, a device at dinner, and, you know, of course you see that. But, you know, my ex and I were very deliberate about wanting to get the kids out in nature. You know, she founded a nonprofit actually called Ecology in Classrooms and Outdoors. And so she's built her career around exposing kids to nature and trying to create the next generation of environmental stewards. And that's still a non profit that's going today. So when I started a tea company, she was like, oh, you started something, I can start something too. And she started eco ecology in classrooms and outdoors. So we've just been a pair that's cared about nature and then that, you know, that manifests itself in the way you parent. And, you know, nowadays I take my boys on an annual backpacking trip with, with, with Bethany, with my ex's father Brian and her brother Greg. We all get out into nature, usually go to a lake in the Mount Jefferson or Sisters Wilderness. Bit of hiking and then just having fun in the woods. And then every summer for the last few summers, I've been doing the Make a Wish foundation fundraiser. That's their magic hike. It's a, it's a marathon billed as a hike. But I like to try to run as much of it as I can. But it's in the, the Silver Creek Falls Wilderness. And so it's just like, I never thought I would. I'm a runner, but I was like, I'm never gonna go out and run 26.2 miles. That sounds crazy, right? And I still have not done one on pavement. It sounds like my knees and my hips and everything would hurt. But like, you know, I, when they invited me to take part in it, I, I took a look at where it would be and I was like, I want to be there. I'd love to spend a day there. And hey, if I can't finish, I can't finish or whatever. But, you know, I think if you, if you like running at all and you don't think you can run distance, go out into nature because it really, it's dynamic, right? You're not just plodding along on pavement. You're going up, you're going down. You can take a break whenever you want and look around. There's always something new to look at. And so now my son has done that with me twice. And so my kids, once they turn 14 is kind of what we're thinking. They'll start doing that marathon with me each year. And they don't even train for it. They're just kids, you know, and they can handle it. I'm kind of dragging them along. Yeah, 26 and a half. It's 26 and a half. But again, there's like 12 waterfalls along the way. You're raising money for the Make a Wish foundation, you know, to, to which is a wonderful cause. Another great, another great group and, yeah, it takes a while, and it's. You've never been hungrier or more exhausted afterwards. But, like, again, you don't feel spiritually bad after you do something like that.
- [15:34]
Justin Bickley
Yeah. I think trail running has always been, like, the way that I've had to do it. If I want to run, like, I want to get that kind of cardio, then I have to do it on trails. It's just been. I totally get that.
- [15:45]
Matt Thomas
Yeah. And there's more around than you realize. I mean, you have to work a little bit to get there. I have a sister who lives, like, really close to a nature trail system, and I'm always very jealous. She lives in Port Orchard, Washington. So it's like the whole thing is just nature trails, but reason to go visit.
- [16:00]
Justin Yoder
Incredible. Yeah, that sounds great. I love how much you're connecting your kids already at a young age to nature and raising them up to be really a next generation of. Of leaders for our lands, because we definitely need that. So that's. That's amazing when it comes to inclusivity with you and your brand and Brew doctor. What. Where did that come from? Because, like, especially where we're living at now, the times. And I know that that goes back to the beginning and want to hear about that, but the time we're living in now, like, a lot of brands don't like that so much, you know, and it'd be easy not to, I guess. But, like, what. What. Where did that come from, your passion for being an inclusive brand?
- [16:46]
Matt Thomas
You know, when I created the teahouses, I wanted to create a space that people would feel like they didn't want to leave. Right. And I always kind of wanted it to be a cross between a library and a coffee shop. Right. Where it's not as loud and crazy as a coffee shop, but it's not as quiet and as a library. And we, you know, always focused on the lighting and the music and wood tones and. And the result was it worked, right, people, it was full. Maybe we didn't sell a lot of tea, but people would come and hang out for a little bit. I was like, okay, how do I actually turn this into a profitable. But let's see. So. So that was. You know, that was kind of. Now, the result of that was we did have a lot of people. When we unfortunately had to close the teahouses in Covid, we had an outpouring of stories of people who had had really meaningful experiences, conversations at the teahouses, who, you know, were encountering a really hard time in life for whatever Reason and found solace with a friend usually or some sort of mentor in coming to the teahouse and being able to have that type of space where you're in community but you still feel, I don't know, it was just a very comforting vibe and I'd love to start more tea houses. So I guess pulling that into. Then we started Brew Doctor Kombucha as a, you know, an extension of the tea company. And you know, with, you know, that was our, you know, the team that, that I had hired to work at the tea houses were people that were drawn to the tea houses so that it just kind of the spirit of welcoming and, you know, celebration of community started as an, you know, because I created that space. And then, and then people came, right? And really people who wanted to work there were these wonderfully kind people. And those are the people that I started making kombucha with. You know, a couple of the tea tenders started making kombucha with me in the basement. And, and so Brew Doctor grew as a small part of the tea company. And then we saw that it was going to grow, you know, much faster. And it was like, as a business person, it was the opportunity I was. I should probably pay attention to, right? So I switched my, my attention over to trying to grow Brew Doctor. But we, you know, the connectivity to. To like, our values that we had just kind of naturally created, it wasn't something that we had written it down, but it was, it was obvious. It was so obvious that we didn't have to, you know, and we used to love to have an annual outdoor gathering. We called it our annual Tea for All. Like free for all, but a Tea for All. We went to, actually went to Detroit Lake one time. We went out in the Gorge one time, and we went over to Tige Valley another time. And those were awesome trips, right? And where everybody came together who were working from any tea house and, and. Or on Kombucha, and we'd all get together for. For a few nights out in the woods and, you know, everyone's just so creative. And that's the thing is we live in a place where. And I was running a business where creative people were really drawn to it, right? So people would play music, a talent show, and it' and it just kind of happened. We didn't have to work really hard to kind of create that spirit. So, you know, the business today, right, We. We became a certified B Corp. In 2018 because I saw that the company was growing and we were hiring a lot of People and I wanted to find a way to cement our values and kind of that spirit of what made the company a special place to be and a special, you know, brand to support. I wanted to cement those values. And B Corp is a way to do that. Right? It's, you're saying we're gonna, we're gonna get measured on, you know, how we interact with our community, how we affect the, the environment, the, you know, the quality of life for the people who work with us and for us. And, and then you are also committing to continuous improvement because their, you know, their evaluation system gets more rigorous every time you recertify. And so you need to, you need to, it's great. You and you need to continue to get better and you're involving. The way to do that is to open it up to everybody in your company. So we had what we call beehives, right where we would have, you know, you'd either have the people bucket, the planet bucket, or the community bucket, operations bucket. And anyone from within the company can bring their ideas and help the company get better in that respect. So I really think that as far as the life of Brewdoctor, our B Corp Certification was one of, one of the most meaningful things we did because it was the point at which we said, you know, no matter where this goes, this is how we, we choose to, to operate and do business. I know I covered a few different paths there, but I hope that helps.
- [21:31]
Justin Bickley
I love that whole beehive concept.
- [21:33]
Matt Thomas
Yeah.
- [21:33]
Justin Bickley
Stuff with B Corp's has all been really cool to learn about.
- [21:36]
Matt Thomas
Thanks.
- [21:37]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, definitely. I know that we, we actually got the chance to tour the facilities.
- [21:43]
Matt Thomas
Oh, great.
- [21:44]
Justin Yoder
And so impressive and incredible and we feel way more connected to what you all are doing now and have a great appreciation for it. I know there's a lot that goes into it, but as an over kind of a thousand foot view, if you will tell us a little bit more about what kombucha exactly is and what brew doctor is, because you're, you're a lot different than a lot of other kombucha companies. And you guys are third largest.
- [22:12]
Matt Thomas
The third largest by like how much product we sell. And then we are the largest that is both certified organic and still committed to 100 raw, you know, special authentic kombucha. So that's a badge we're very proud to have. But yeah, third largest kombucha brand. Not bad for, you know, just some tea guy with a, with a group of people and we, you know, we reinvented a lot of Wheels. We probably didn't have to, you know, but such is life. So. Sorry, the question was, tell me about.
- [22:41]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, tell us about what kombucha exactly is and how you are different and what brew. Dr. Like, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it.
- [22:49]
Matt Thomas
Yeah. So as I said before, it's just another manifestation of tea, right? It's. It's a fermented tea. You make a really great tasting. You know, in our case, we take organic tea and botanicals. We make a delicious, you know, pot of tea, right? 4,000 gallons, and you sweeten it with organic cane sugar, and then you introduce it to previously fermented kombucha. So, you know, that. That's the way, like, if you think of beer and wine, they're, like, brewing. They're either, you know, crushing the grapes and then they're introducing a yeast, right? And the yeast interacts with the sugar, ferments, and you get wine. We have our kombucha. Fermentation is much more like a. Like a sour beer. It's just a wild fermentation where like, whatever yeast and bacterias are active in the environment are. Are in the. The mix, if you will, which is like the most natural way to ferment anything and gets you the most dynamic mix of, like, probiotic benefit. All these different yeast and bacterias that the gut, you know, kind of evolved to have as part of its ecosystem. So I'm getting a little too in the weeds. But tea fermented, and again, the yeast and bacteria interacts with sugar that we've sweetened the tea with, consumes that sugar, and creates, you know, all the other yeast and bacteria. They proliferate. And then you get a full batch of kombucha. And the difference is, you know, metabolizes most of the caffeine. So there's not a lot of caffeine in kombucha. There's about 15 milligrams of caffeine in a bottle of our kombucha. It's not very sweet. We kind of fermented down to a level of sweetness that we think is enough that you can taste all the flavors of the tea and botanicals. If we. If we fermented more sugar out, it would just get very dry. You would just kind of taste that acidic vinegar profile, again, that it's a fermentation. It's an acidic fermentation, like, again, like a sour beer or like a vinegar. And so the byproduct is a little bit of that flavor of like a drinking vinegar. Or something. Right. But much more mild than that. I like to say it's the easiest way to get the benefits of raw fermentation into your daily diet, right? Because there's not a lot of raw yogurts, right. You are seeing the growth of those with brands, you know, like, like coconut cold and stuff like that. But you know, most yogurts like soup, ultra pasteurized, then they dump some probiotic powders in it, right. You have kimchi, which is another great way to get like the benefits of fermentation. But there's very few people maybe that want to eat kimchi every day. Right. But kombucha is just like it's, it replaces a soda or replaces a fizzy water, right. It can be a satisfying break from other beverages you're having and you are getting, then you're introducing to your gut those benefits of, of the fermentation. So it's really. That's why I love it. I think it's, it is a health and wellness tonic as a ready to drink beverage. We can't like throw a bunch of health claims on there, right? Because you, you get in trouble. But you know, it's. Well, we try to position it a lot of different ways, like fizzy iced tea with gut friendly benefits. You know, stuff like that. Because, you know, the word kombucha is scary to some people. You know, I think kombucha has hit about 20% household penetration and is having a really hard time getting past that because people either tried it once and were like, ah, tastes a little vinegary, I'm not gonna try it again. Maybe they tried a brand that wasn't doing a great job at making it palatable. Or they're like, I know somebody weird who drinks kombucha all the time and I don't identify with them. Or they think just the word kombucha is scary. Or somebody told them it was a mushroom tea or something. And I don't like mushrooms. You know, there's no mushrooms involved, no fungus. So positioning it as kind of an elevated tea is where we're kind of headed to try to cross over into at least a bigger audience. Bottled iced tea has about 80% household penetration. And so we want to tell that consumer, hey, here's something that you like tea cold, it's a little sparkling and it's a little bit good for you. Don't ignore it just because it's in this kombucha section. Yeah, we'll see how that goes. But that's like our current kind of Marketing initiative, if you will.
- [26:54]
Justin Bickley
Yeah. I kind of love, like, the whole, like, in my entire life, kind of lately has been becoming about accessibility and like, accessibility to the outdoors for, like, LGBTQ outdoor stuff. And then pack rafting. Like, my entire life revolves around pack rafting in Alaska, which is all about access, like getting into cool places in the wilderness. And it sounds like a lot of this for you is like, giving people access to the health benefits of kombucha and like, all of that world and making it more consumer friendly or just like, populate, like general populace friendly. And that's pretty cool.
- [27:28]
Matt Thomas
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I would say, you know, also, we're 100 certified organic, and that's been a commitment that we is just like a non starter for us. It's like, we have to do it, but it is, you know, organic ingredients are more expensive now. They're getting better because of so much brand support, like, and consumer support for certified organic. And. And when you see the USDA certified organic logo on there, just know that it is not easy to get. Right. It's not like, it's not fake. You do go through a certification. You get audited every year. Yeah. I just want to let people know who might say organic's just a. A fad or. Or not real or a reason to charge me a dollar more that, like, no, no. You're supporting organic farmers and the brands that have it on there really are getting, you know, thoroughly checked.
- [28:18]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if there's two things that I would say about Brew Doctor in itself, in. In drinking, it is like, in the past, whenever I tried kombucha, it's very vinegary to me, and you don't get that with. With you guys at all. And there's also, like, we mentioned no alcohol in it, so, like, kids can drink it if you want.
- [28:37]
Matt Thomas
Yeah.
- [28:38]
Justin Yoder
So I think those two things are just amazing in itself now. Like, we're sitting here in this beautiful forest talking about Brew Doctor and.
- [28:50]
Justin Bickley
Kind.
- [28:50]
Justin Yoder
Of sounds like a big advertisement, and that's totally fine. If you're listening to this and you're kind of like, why is this? And the reason is because we have an incredible partnership now with Brew Doctor that we're super excited about. So we're not just here talking about this random product. It is a product that is, I think, really cool for the outdoors because, like, I think you originally did your can to take a hiking with you, which is cool. And you're doing a lot for sustainability in our environment and just doing things right and supporting Great causes like lgbtq, outdoors. But I think if you're good with it, why don't you share a little bit about what we're drinking right now and this in our partnership and.
- [29:36]
Matt Thomas
Well, hey, giving visibility to B Corps and organic producers is not a bad thing.
- [29:41]
Justin Yoder
It is not a bad thing.
- [29:42]
Matt Thomas
I hope people don't mind.
- [29:43]
Justin Yoder
I'm glad that you actually talked about B Corpse, because a lot of people don't even know what B Corpse are as down. That sounds like in Texas, where we're from, unfortunately, you know, it's a little bit harder to find B Corp organizations now. You get up in the north and states that are more outdoorsy and care more about the environment and stuff. Yeah, you can find them a little bit better. But I. I think this is very educational and we're living in a time where it's important to be able to support those big core organization companies.
- [30:12]
Justin Bickley
Yeah, I think more than an advertisement, I've learned a lot. So.
- [30:15]
Matt Thomas
Yeah, yeah, it's great.
- [30:17]
Justin Yoder
We definitely have.
- [30:18]
Matt Thomas
Well, you know, like, I don't know if we want to get this big, but, you know, capitalism is a work in progress. Right. Like, it started out like, low, low prices. Right. You think of the 80s and 90s and the growth of Walmart and everything, and it was cut costs and make profits and give it to the shareholder. And now, you know, the consumers aren't just looking for low, low prices. Yeah, they want competitive, they want competition. So they're not paying a ton for everything, but people are voting with their dollars for organic. You know, that's. I think that was the start. And, you know, there were a lot of early adopters, but you see a lot more organic options for every kind of food you might want right now. And B Corp is kind of that next thing that I see coming of. It's like, yeah, okay, we're a business. We employ people. The goal is to make money. Right. But we can commit to, like, these other values other than like low, low prices and enrich the shareholder. So that's where you know, when you see a B Corp stamp on a product, it's not just the single bottom line for a company. It's the bottom line of People Planet. And of course, you have to stay in existence, so a little bit of profit. But what we do with profit from this is it's part of our 1% for the planet. Typically, it's been part of our 1% for the planet. Now every pride season, we want to find a partner like y' all to help us, you know, Turn our love flavor kombucha into Love Wins. We've been doing this since 2018. You know, we've been donating with 1% for the planet since I think since almost the beginning 2010 or 11. So, I mean, a spirit of giving has been part of the business since early on. You know, I did. It was a way that I supported, again, my ex's nonprofit that Ecology and Classrooms and Outdoors. That was an early nonprofit that we support, and that was really helpful to keep that going in the early days. So, I mean, our partnership, it makes. It makes sense because we, you know, we. We've always been a planet focused charitable. You know, that's where we focused our charity. But then we've also wanted to. Part of the planet is the people experiencing it and the access to the environment for everyone. And. And so it, you know, I don't know what else to say other than, like, you know, the. The pride season. It makes total sense to. To find a partner like, like LGBTQ outdoors to do work with. Like, we're working here today.
- [32:52]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, it's great. So, I mean, we're incredibly grateful for it. And I think that it's. I've been talking with Rob for months, probably since last September, so we had quite a few meetings. And I've just loved to get to know the company and your guys values and everything that you're doing. So I think it's an amazing fit. So the Love Wins bottle right now is on shelves, and if you pick it up, you will see that our logo is on it too. And so we are. We're grateful and really hoping that this gets the word out more about what we're doing so people that can find us. A lot of people, you know, that hear about us, they think, oh, you're just a fun outdoors organization, you know, but it goes so much deeper than that. Providing those safe and inclusive spaces for people where they can feel like they can genuinely be themselves and still get outside and enjoy the outdoors is incredible. You know, we've had people that come out of events, especially, I think of a couple transgender people right now that was like, you know, I never really felt proud of who I was or could find my people. And with you I have, and they found more purpose. And when we started hearing stories like that, it was just like, damn right. It's heavy and incredible.
- [34:12]
Matt Thomas
You do this work and then. But then actually hearing the people that you touch, you know, in that kind of like one off fashion is really the stuff that, like, fills your bucket, right? And it's like, reminds you of why you do the work, you know, and, yeah, having the logo on there, you know, we figured that's gotta help, right? Put as much of the story on there as we can. Obviously, there's a, you know, there's a financial support, but that can also translate into other brands, hopefully, I think, reaching out. You know, in the past, we've had, you know, I've heard from leaders of other beverage companies were like, oh, you know what? We were. We were looking for a partner, and you all vetted this one out, so we're just gonna go ahead and work with them. I was like, okay, well, nice benefit. So hopefully you get some of that as well.
- [34:52]
Justin Bickley
Yeah, I think a lot. Like, as the partnerships coordinator, like, I'm just kind of thinking and as I'm talking to different companies and brands about partnership stuff, I'm realizing how much it's all about just, like, visibility for us, too. Like, especially this day and age, just people seeing LGBTQ written on stuff and, like, kind of understanding what companies and what organizations and who's supportive. Because it's always a question these days, like, are these people on our side or are these people not on our side? And that's where we're voting with our dollar. Right. Like you mentioned earlier. And that's incredibly important for the LGBTQ community, I think. So we really appreciate you doing that.
- [35:31]
Justin Yoder
With us and to go along with that. We are. It's in all 50 states, so that's incredible. Anybody can find it. And I guess if people want to be able to find a place to picture, to be able to get it, they can go to your website and there's store locator on there and be able to find out what stores are carrying it.
- [35:50]
Matt Thomas
Even Alaska, nationwide. Sorry, go ahead.
- [35:52]
Justin Bickley
Oh, I said even Alaska.
- [35:53]
Matt Thomas
Even Alaska. I mean, nationwide, I'm sure with Whole Foods Market, but then a lot of other. A lot of other grocery chains as well. So, yeah, love is widely distributed, and we love showing up, you know, with our. With our rainbow every. Every. Every year. And it's gotten tougher in the last few years. Right. Which was. Seems unbelievable. Right. I think from the perspective of people who just want to see, you know, fair and equitable treatment of all humans to then see, like, brands or retailers walking away from having rainbow packaging on their. On their shelves. Right. You know, we even heard, you know, that some retailers pulled packaging like that because of threats from a certain segment of society. Right. And, you know, you hope the pendulum swings, you know, and it does. Right. I mean, I guess if I wanted to talk a little more about this, I would say I just finished listening to a book called Lessons in Chemistry. It was recommended by my sister and it's about the experience of a, a woman who was a chemist in the 1950s. Right. Which it. When it was extremely hard for a woman to have a career at all. And so you had, she had no allies basically.
- [37:20]
Justin Yoder
Right.
- [37:20]
Matt Thomas
Is the, is the gist of the book and how difficult and horrible it was to try to experience life just as a. An ambitious woman in the 50s and who wasn't just willing to be a stay at home mom. And that has changed. Right. It took some generations but like the unlock is now we have this other half of the population to be. To be scientists and political leaders and business people. And so when you have acceptance in your culture and your society and your society, the net of it is always a positive. Right. There is no negative that comes from acceptance. And that's what frustrates me about just whenever I see an unwillingness for people to allow people to be who they want to be and feel supported.
- [38:15]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Love that. And I, I agree and it's one of the things that's so frustrating for me, you know, I, I come from a family, you know, that is part of those that are, you know, more so my parents closed minded and not accepting and whatnot. So it hits home more for me. But like one of the frustrating things for me is that everybody just wants to be who they are. Just you know, it's like so many people that are coming after us are just looking to pick a fight. Like I'm not bothering whoever in whatever state thousands of miles away, you know, why, why, why are you coming after us? Just let us be humans and just live our lives. That's, that's all we want, you know. And so it's incredibly frustrating. And I hope you know there comes the day when our younger generations don't have to worry about this.
- [39:13]
Matt Thomas
You know, and there will. Right. I think it just, it like all things, it takes time and some parts of the world are much further along than others.
- [39:22]
Justin Yoder
Yeah.
- [39:22]
Matt Thomas
And you know, believe it or not, we live in a part of the world that's actually much farther along than a lot of countries. But yeah, I mean it's just another step in the process of like humans getting along. Right. Which is like the ultimate goal.
- [39:40]
Justin Yoder
Yeah.
- [39:41]
Matt Thomas
Has to be anyway.
- [39:42]
Justin Yoder
Yeah.
- [39:42]
Justin Bickley
I like to imagine that like as we get closer to this precipice of like change to like acceptance just kind of like Radical acceptance, just being normalized. That that's why everybody's, like, freaking out, like, on the other side of it. They're like, oh, my gosh, we're about to lose. And. And so I think that it feels like the people coming together and stuff, that we're coming together more like this kind of partnership in these times is what I've experienced as the partnerships coordinator. Like, people that want to support us, really want to support us, and I think that that's what's going to push us over the edge in the right direction. And that's awesome.
- [40:19]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. On a positive note, I think that what you all are doing and what we're doing is going to make a big change for those future generations, too. Like, you know, I remember as a kid, I don't remember seeing any rainbow stuff on store shelves, you know, And I also grew up in rural Missouri, too, so, you know, I didn't have much. Only thing that I can remember is, like, Will and Grace on tv. And, you know, God forbid if I would have got caught watching that, you know, But Will and Grace was.
- [40:51]
Matt Thomas
Was. Was cutting edge back in the day.
- [40:55]
Justin Yoder
I mean, you go a little bit farther even. Golden Girl cutting edges back in the day.
- [41:02]
Matt Thomas
That's funny. Yeah. I mean, growing up as a kid in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. There was zero visibility. Right. And so, yeah, we have come a long way. Right. And it'll take time and more generations, but, like, I guess you could say our generation was one of the first to. We're seeing a lot. Right. In society and in technology and everything. Right. And so I think, you know, that this is. There's. We see the need for positive change in the world and. And acceptance, you know, again, like, radical acceptance is. Is common sense.
- [41:48]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. Yeah. Should be. Yeah. And it will be. It's throughout generations. You know, there's always been these ups and highs and lows with progress with it all. And I know a lot of people right now are feeling like we're in one of those lows, and I'd say we are in one of those lows, but we're going to come out of it, and then we're going to be going up again, you know, and then that's going to create even a better future for. For those generations. But, I mean, looking back in history and thinking what others had to go through. Yes, we have come a long ways, and we owe our gratitude to those people that have fought when it was even harder to fight than it is now.
- [42:35]
Matt Thomas
Yeah. And now this podcast is part of the fight. Right. Because it's visibility, it's promoting positive message for a community that can feel marginalized. I mean, I think it's great. Great.
- [42:45]
Justin Yoder
Awesome. Yeah. Tell us a little bit. What do you think the, the future holds for Brew doctor?
- [42:51]
Matt Thomas
Let's see. Well, I mean, like I hit on earlier, I think we're coming a little bit back around to our tea roots. Right. You know, Kombucha kind of rode its kind of wellness wave a bit, and now we need to find out how to continue to expose more people to it. And I think that's where like, you know, promoting this kind of elevated tea message could, could, could come in. You know, we're going to keep doing what we're doing. We've got plenty of room to grow at the facility that you saw. You know, we can probably make twice as much kombucha as we currently make there. So happy to be able to stop investing in bottling lines and canning lines and stainless steel tanks and. But yeah, I. The beverage world is, is fickle and weird at times, right? You never know what's gonna hit and what's not. And I'm, I'm proud of hour we've had, but it is not easy, right? You kind of fight for your right to stay on the shelf at every retailer every year. And honestly, when you're kind of tied in terms of like, how quickly your product sells and how well you're supporting with marketing, the work we do as a B corp can, can be a big motivator for those buyers at those retailers to say, yes, right, to choose us. And so the investments we've made as a B corp we are able to leverage. Right? And so I would say that to any other, you know, business leader considering a B corp is like, there's, there's also people like to do business with B corpse, right? Because they know there's an authenticity to the people behind the work, the. The product. So, you know, we'll just keep, keep trying to keep doing what we're doing, but create new products to kind of expand Kombucha and, and its overlap with tea.
- [44:42]
Justin Bickley
Before I forget to like, bring it up, my sappy little story about Brew Doctor Kombucha. So senior year of high school, I was like, on the edge of coming out. So it's been like a decade of like being in the closet. And I came over to Portland with my best friend at the time. We were living in omac, Washington, like up on the border of eastern Washington. And we came down here, went to One of the local coffee shops in Portland, or it was Coffee Shop Bakery. And I found a bottle of Brew doctor Kombucha, Clear Mind, and just took it home with me, like, drank it on the way home. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is like, for whatever reason, like, it tasted like comfort. Comfort. Or like my mind was clear or something. And that. And I think probably also being in Portland, like, felt stabilizing after coming from, like, a super conservative small town over here. And so then it turned into, like, this, like, every month we would drive down to Portland, which is, like a long drive, and I'm sure we could have gotten Brew doctor Kombucha somewhere else, but we would, like, drive to Portland, and I would stock up on brew Dr. Kombucha, like, clear Minds. And I'd sit in, like, all of my high school senior year classes, and I'd just be like, drinking my Clear Mind Kombucha. And I was just like, this is. So then Justin brought that up, and I was like, that was like, the most, like, stabilizing thing in my, like, crazy, emotional coming out time of my life. And so, like, he said that we're doing partnership with you guys, and I was like, this is wild. Totally full circle. Super wild. Like, yeah. So I'm super stoked.
- [46:13]
Justin Yoder
And how many stories just like that are out there? Your guys's company is affecting people. So, yeah, I'm sure the difference. It's pretty cool.
- [46:20]
Matt Thomas
No, thank you for sharing that. That's great.
- [46:22]
Justin Bickley
Yeah, thank you.
- [46:23]
Justin Yoder
We'd love to do a little fun section with you and do some rapid fire questions, learn a little bit about you.
- [46:28]
Matt Thomas
Yeah, yeah, Go for it.
- [46:29]
Justin Yoder
All right. What's your favorite trail snack besides.
- [46:34]
Matt Thomas
Besides a can of Brew doctor Kombucha? I don't do jerky because it gets stuck in your teeth. I think my kids love that, man. I think an apple. You know, I'm a big fruit guy. There you go. That works for this podcast, right? Yeah, we'll go with apple.
- [46:57]
Justin Yoder
And it's one of our board members, actually. But their favorite snack on a trail is fried chicken. And I'm like, okay, wow.
- [47:06]
Matt Thomas
We do. So for the first day of that backpacking trip, we bring a bunch of PBJs. So, like a sandwich bag full of PBJs, and we're just crushing those on the trails.
- [47:15]
Justin Yoder
All right, cool. Your favorite flavor of kombucha that you would like to take on a mountain summit?
- [47:27]
Matt Thomas
I would say our BlackBerry trails is my favorite, like, adventure flavor, for whatever reason. I mean, the name, you know, Although we are going to change that one to Berry ginger because it tested better. So anyway, but it's like, I don't know, like, blackberries are very, like, wilderness, like Oregon Mountain. And then the ginger just gives it that nice little kick that'll wake you up, Wake you up. Open your eyes a little bit.
- [47:56]
Justin Yoder
Nice. Okay.
- [47:56]
Justin Bickley
Okay.
- [47:57]
Justin Yoder
Favorite national. Oh, go ahead.
- [47:59]
Justin Bickley
That was. I was going to ask you what your favorite national park was or, like, dream national park trip, too.
- [48:05]
Matt Thomas
I mean, you see the photos of people who get access, you know, to, like, Yosemite, and you're like, how. Where do I get in line, you know, to, like, see the Ansel Adams photo? You know, I want to camp right there. Is it even possible? So I. I think that would be, like, bucket list. I do have a friend, he's a big BlackBerry trails fan, actually, and he has a life goal of visiting every national park. And, you know, we took a trip down to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and he went like three days ahead of time on his own to go to this very out of the way national park in New Mexico and did it on his own. And it was super inspiring. So I. I bought a book on all 50 national parks in all 50 states, and I think I'm gonna try to start ticking them off with my kids.
- [48:48]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:49]
Justin Bickley
Let me know when you get up to Alaska for those ones.
- [48:51]
Matt Thomas
Okay.
- [48:53]
Justin Yoder
You can have a personal tour guide. I think I know the answer to this, but mountains or beach?
- [49:01]
Matt Thomas
Wow. Mountains. I mean, my kids love the beach. Right. Set kids loose on a day like this on the beach, and it's like heaven for them. So we. We do both, right? We very much do both. Make sure they get a few days on the beach each year, usually with some cousins, you know, and then. But the mountains are, I guess, where I go regularly. And my mom, whom I love very dearly, she just loves a trail in the woods. Right. And, you know, you can just see the happiness that that brings her. And she's, you know, not getting to the age where it's hard to be active, so getting her to those spaces is always very meaningful.
- [49:43]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, you should follow the Instagram account, Grandma Joys Road Trip.
- [49:49]
Matt Thomas
Okay.
- [49:49]
Justin Yoder
Podcasters have heard us talk a lot and they're very involved with us. But you love that she's 95 years old and her grandson's still dragging her around the world. She's having a great time visiting. They visit all the national parks, but, yeah, they're great.
- [50:06]
Justin Bickley
What's like, the place in the world that you feel the most at peace. I feel like I always try and ask the people, new people I meet about that.
- [50:16]
Matt Thomas
I mean, honestly, just at home, I've got a big picture window. We're a little bit up, so I've got a bit of view with a lot of sky and some trees. And when I'm there with my three boys around and we just cup of tea or kombucha and the kids are doing whatever or they'll come sit. I've got three chairs kind of in the window and. And that's like, I get it almost every day. Right. So. But it's my daily reset, for sure, and fills me with a sense of, like, calm gratitude.
- [50:49]
Justin Bickley
I love that.
- [50:50]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. Do you have a favorite or most memorable wildlife moment?
- [50:58]
Matt Thomas
So Bethany and I, you know, we got married in 2002 and we love to take trips, right. Went down the redwoods. We went. We drove to Colorado and back, and on the way back, we were staying at some random little camp spot in. It was in Idaho. And we're just kind of getting set up and whatever, and we just hear this crazy rustling just like, you know, 20 yards away in some bushes. And then a moose just, boom, bolts through camp. And I'm just like, holy. And it's this famous quote now of hers. Get in the car, get in the car, get in the car. So whenever there's anything, like, dangerous or things happening, that's kind of what my family screams is, get in the car, get in the car.
- [51:42]
Justin Yoder
That's great.
- [51:43]
Matt Thomas
Yeah.
- [51:43]
Justin Yoder
Awesome. Well, we've thoroughly enjoyed having you on the podcast and, you know, our partnership. In closing, if you have any final thoughts that you would like to share with any of our listeners, more than. Welcome to.
- [51:57]
Matt Thomas
Yeah, I mean, keep going on adventures. Right. And keep. Keep a positive and open mind. Right. That works for everybody that does.
- [52:07]
Justin Yoder
Have any thoughts?
- [52:08]
Justin Bickley
Yeah. I think when we talked about just like visibility and showing up for each other and with each other and kind of just uplifting all of the people that are doing good, the B Corps and the non profits and all of that stuff, I think joint, like, come together in, like, all of this. I think that's a lot of what I have to say for people. Yeah. Lift each other up.
- [52:29]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. Justin, if anybody is listening that wants to reach out about partnerships, where can they get a hold of you?
- [52:36]
Justin Bickley
Partnershipsgbtqoutdoors.com it's perfect email to do that. Otherwise the Instagram account also works if that's simpler for people.
- [52:47]
Justin Yoder
What about Brew Doctor? Where can people follow or find Brew Doctor.
- [52:51]
Matt Thomas
Yeah, hit us up on any of the socials. Rob, the guy that does the social media as well, with a little help from my kids and me. Yeah, and, you know, obviously the classic info@brewdoctor kombucha.com. but yeah, go hit us up on Instagram or something. We'll get back to you same day. Yeah.
- [53:09]
Justin Yoder
Awesome. You know, I can't thank you enough for everything that you guys are doing for us, for the community, for nature. You guys are just incredible. So thank you for having us out, taking the time to meet with us. It's been. It's been an honor and a privilege, and I'm looking forward to our relationship continuing to grow.
- [53:28]
Matt Thomas
Awesome. Well, from everybody at Brew Doctor, we're very proud to have a partner like you all. Thank you for what you do. Awesome.
- [53:33]
Justin Yoder
Thank you.
- [53:34]
Justin Bickley
Thank you.
- [53:34]
Justin Yoder
Thank you everybody for tuning in again. Go out, find your love wins. It's gonna be on shelves in all 50 states through. Through June at least through Pride Month at least. You know, it would be really cool if you go out and pick it up, take it on a hike, take a photo tag, LGBTQ Outdoors, tag Brew Doctor. We would love to be able to post those and share them and share the love. And until next time, get out there. Thanks for listening to the LGBTQ Outdoors podcast. Catch past episodes on your favorite streaming platforms, and connect with us on Instagram or Facebook by searching LGBTQ Outdoors. Support our mission by joining the Trailblazer Society at lgbtqoutdoors.com to learn more about our local chapters, LGBTQ Outdoor Fest, Adventure Trips, or to sign up for our newsletter, visit LGBTQoutdoors.com if you enjoying the show, be sure to follow, rate and review. It helps keep our mission going.