← LGBTQ Outdoors Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
It changes from day to day. Sometimes you have to be just prepared if there's an animal sighting just to run up into the park last minute to go and see what's going on, to figure out which individual people are seeing up in the park, if you get word of a certain animal being up there and everything. So I don't know, I feel like there's not a typical day working at working in this field.
- [00:32]
B
What do you do when you come out as LGBTQ and love the outdoors? What do you do when you see the outdoor space ruled by older white CIS men and desire a diverse community of outdoor lovers? Accept it, change it, create it. I am Justin Yoder and this is LGBT Outdoors. Hey everyone. Welcome to the LGBT Outdoors Podcast. I am your host, Justin Yoder, and super excited for today's episode and also super excited to have a different co host with me today. Mallory, how's it going?
- [01:09]
C
Hi, Justin. I'm super excited to be here.
- [01:12]
B
So Mallory is one of our board members and she is actually in Oklahoma right now for the. This is our third episode that we have added videos. So if you're tuning in on YouTube, you will see that she is nice and cozy in a nice outdoor setting in Oklahoma.
- [01:33]
C
Yes. Loving it. It's gorgeous here. All the leaves are changing. I'm by the fire. I am. I'm digging it.
- [01:42]
B
I'm jealous. I am definitely jealous. Are you in a cabin?
- [01:46]
C
Yes. Yes. It is a friend of ours birthday, so we are here for the weekend to celebrate and we are in a 12 person cabin with five of us, so it feels incredible. Every has her own space and it's all windows so all we can see is trees. So it's awesome.
- [02:05]
B
Very cool. Well, you got the setting, you got the look going, so it's perfect. Yes. I want to kick off and let people also know about our local chapters. For those that don't know, I feel like most of our viewers and listeners have heard about them before, but I'm really excited for a lot of changes that have been happening with our Ambassador program, which our ambassadors lead our local chapters. We have just an amazing team that is now fully in charge of the Ambassador program. Four incredible people that have a passion for getting our community outside and helping the ambassadors run their event successfully. And so we have chapters all over the US So if you're wanting to get involved with our chapters, go to LGBT Outdoors, check out our local chapters and see if we have one near you. Our ambassadors do events like hiking, camping, kayaking, all kinds of things to get people Outside in safe environment. So check it out, and if there isn't a chapter near you, consider becoming an ambassador. It's an amazing way to get back to the computer community and create a real change in people's lives. So it's been incredible to see this grow from two ambassadors back in 2021 up to about 55ambassadors across the US right now. I know. Can you believe how much we've gone?
- [03:34]
C
Mallory, it's so cool. It's so cool to see.
- [03:39]
B
Yeah, it's been amazing. What else do we got going on?
- [03:44]
C
Well, if you have, I would love to tell you guys about our new program. It's called the Trailblazer Society. As you guys know, LGBT Outdoors strives to create community in the outdoor space, and we can't do it without your help. So I would love to invite you guys to partner with us and become a trailblazer and reach more of us and give the gift of amazing community that we offer at LGBT Outdoors. Not only do you aid in reaching others who could really benefit from the supportive community, but also you get super cool perks. One of my favorites is the third tier, which we plant a tree for you in a national park in your honor. I love that idea, and it's so cool to just be a part of something across, you know, the states from you and to give back and support others in the community. I will also say, for those of you who are giving, which we definitely need, we need your help. We're a nonprofit. All of this goes back to us giving to others, which is awesome, but it is tax deductible, so if that's a perk for you, there's another one. Even, like, the first tier, you get a T shirt, you get a sticker, you get to be part of our newsletter. And never miss out on anything that we're doing because it could be a local chapter right next to you. So if you're interested at all, we would love your help, and we need it. Go to LGBT outdoors.com Trailblazer Society and join us. Be a partner with us.
- [05:19]
B
I love that. And, you know, we started this program just back in September, and it's been. It's been really encouraging to see how many people have been signing up because they believe in what we're doing. And the more people that come along and join us in our mission, the bigger impact we can make. And I am, yes, I'm excited for 2025 and where we're going. I think it's time to jump in with our guest, and today we have Tyler Greenlee with us coming in from Wyoming. How's it going, Tyler?
- [05:46]
A
It's going great. Thanks for having me. Hello, everyone.
- [05:50]
B
Absolutely.
- [05:50]
C
Hi, Tyler.
- [05:52]
B
It's funny and interesting because your partner was our very first podcast guest ever. Yeah. So he. He. That episode has ranked up the most listens, which kind of makes sense since it was the first one we ever did, but at the same time, it's kind of crushing the others in numbers, so. So it was a very popular episode, which is awesome.
- [06:16]
A
That's awesome. I actually don't know if he realizes that, so I'll have to let him know.
- [06:21]
B
Let him know. Yeah. I can look up the stats to see. See what they're at exactly. But, yeah, it's good. Sometimes we have to have him back on the episode for a new episode as well, because for sure, it was great. Great getting to talk to him, but you are. Oh, go ahead.
- [06:36]
A
I was just gonna say he was super excited that I was able to connect with you guys and everything. So he says hi and hopes you guys are doing well and everything.
- [06:46]
B
Awesome. Well, tell Dylan we said hi too. Like, he's a. He's a good guy. We've been following him for a long time and doing some cool stuff in Yellowstone as well. But you yourself are a wildlife guide and tracker based in Wyoming. I'd love to hear about you. Who are you? Where'd you grow up?
- [07:08]
A
Yeah.
- [07:09]
B
Anything you'd like to share about your journey to you becoming who you are now?
- [07:17]
A
Yeah. Thank you so much. I grew up in Colorado, and I have always lived in the outdoors, and so I've been very lucky to have spent my childhood out in the woods and then also to have a career in the outdoors. I. I mean, just a lot of luck being able to grow up in Colorado and experiencing the woods and to go hiking. I owe a lot to my parents, who took me out into the woods quite a bit, and then later on in my life, pursued a career in wildlife biology and jumped around quite a bit, you know, into different states and different positions, and eventually landed in Wyoming as a professional wildlife guide, which has been, I mean, an absolute dream. I'm super thankful for it.
- [08:10]
B
That's incredible.
- [08:11]
C
That's awesome.
- [08:12]
A
Yeah.
- [08:13]
B
Mallory and I both have a passion for wildlife ourselves, so it's kind of funny, like, as Patrick, my husband, when we first, early on started dating, I would tell him, you know, these random wildlife facts, and he's like, no, that's not true. And he'd Google it and be like, oh, okay. Yep, you're Right. And then finally it was just like, okay, whatever you say. I get it.
- [08:37]
A
I believe, you know, became, like, the walking encyclopedia.
- [08:43]
B
Yeah. I mean, granted, it, I'm sure not nearly on your level, but, like, ever since I was a little kid, like, wildlife was just my thing, and I loved it. So, really, really excited to dive into this with you because I don't, you know, I don't know that I know of any other LGBTQ wildlife guides out there, so I think this is going to be fascinating.
- [09:06]
C
Yeah. How long. How long have you been doing this?
- [09:10]
A
I have been doing it for about four and a half years now. As far as, like, the professional wildlife guiding, which, you know, that really entails taking people out into the national parks to look for different animals. But as far as tracking, I've been tracking animals my whole life, ever since I was a kid, and I've done it professionally for over 10 years now. So tracking. I have a long history with it, for sure. Definitely enjoy it. And I love hearing your story, Justin, about your connection with wildlife as a kid. I feel like we're all drawn to wildlife from a young age often. And so I love taking people out into the parks, as I've been doing for the past couple years. I feel like it really connects them almost with their childhood in a way.
- [09:58]
C
Okay, I have a question.
- [10:00]
A
Yeah.
- [10:00]
C
So what was when you were a kid and you were like, okay, I've nailed it. I have successfully tracked my first animal. Like, tell us what that was and what you did, and I'm sure you've come such a long way from that, but it's really cool to think about you then and, you know, the different techniques that you used, probably, and. Yeah, I'd love to hear that.
- [10:24]
A
I mean, you know, wildlife tracking is. It's. It's really interesting because it's something you can continuously work on. There's always something to learn. And, you know, I've been. I've been tracking my whole life, but there are people who are so much more skilled than I am. You know, I'm thinking, know if people, you know, in Africa, for example, are so incredibly skilled, and in other countries and even just here, like. And so there's always a lot to learn. I feel like that pivotal moment where I kind of defined myself as, like, a wildlife tracker was when I was a teenager. I spent some time in the wood. I spent a lot of time in the woods back behind my house, tracking different animals, especially elk. And I had gotten really good at finding those animals. And one day I was tracking you know, on a game trail, following an elk herd. And I came across these drag marks coming down the hill. And it, for me, it was the weirdest thing to experience because it was almost like someone had taken a sled and slid down the hill in the dirt. But all of this elk fur had been left behind. And so I followed it uphill, and I found where all these elk had walked into this clearing. And then there was this big kind of mess in a way, like a lot of fur, a lot of turned up sticks, a lot of broken sticks. And what I concluded is a mountain lion had ambushed this herd of elk and taken one of them down and then dragged it down the hill, leaving those drag marks that almost look like a sled. And I followed those tracks, those slide marks down the hill and found the carcass and put a game camera on it and got some pretty incredible videos and photos of this young male mountain lion feeding on this elk he had taken down. And I feel like, for me, that was, like, the moment where I was like, okay, I love this. This is something I enjoy. I'm going to be a wildlife tracker, whether professionally or just for a hobby. And ever since then, I've been working on my skill and trying to get better at it and worked, you know, tracking different types of wildlife.
- [12:51]
B
I love that. That's awesome.
- [12:54]
C
Also, can I just mention, you just nonchalantly said, all these elk in my backyard, and I was like, I grew up in suburbia, Texas.
- [13:08]
A
Yeah.
- [13:09]
C
You know, I had an occasional bunny that I'd be, like, so excited about. That's so cool you had that experience growing up.
- [13:18]
B
Mallory, though, have you. Have you heard on the news, though, lately there's been three mountain lion sightings in Dallas Fort Worth area. Like, two of them in Plano. Yeah. Like, right in. Right in the city. Like, yeah. Crazy.
- [13:34]
C
No, I mean, development is everywhere. So we're pushing them. We're pushing them into our area. So.
- [13:40]
B
Yeah.
- [13:40]
A
And I believe there's been some, like, positive, you know, work done with mountain lions in Texas, and they're actually expanding their range, which is exciting. So who knows, Maybe those sightings will become more common.
- [13:52]
B
Yeah, no, I totally believe it. Yeah. So for. For people that aren't into wildlife as much, obviously, we know wildlife guiding is, you know, taking others out and showing them the wildlife. You know, their routines, their habit, habits, habitat. A lot of them you're probably taking out for to do photography of or just to enjoy.
- [14:18]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [14:18]
B
But the. The tracking itself, like, there can be different reasons that you are. Are Tracking wildlife in your world, is it primarily to track them, to be able to show people, like, when you're guiding or what all does that involve, like, when you're actually describing and thinking about wildlife tracking?
- [14:40]
A
Totally, yeah. You know, the purpose of wildlife tracking is. Yeah, to show people wildlife. It's also for research. And so initially when I first started tracking professionally, I actually worked for some research groups. I tracked black footed ferrets using game cameras down in Colorado just to learn about their behavior. It was for the Soapstone Prairie Natural Area, which was a place where black footed ferrets had recently been reintroduced. And so we tracked them to monitor their population. And then I've used those skills that I obtained from research then to show people wildlife. And I mean, tracking, like, it really does depend how deep you want to dive into it. For example, to find like elk and moose, you don't have to search for those animals as much as you do to find like a mountain lion or a wolf to show people. And so now that I've been guiding for a long time, I. I do try to show people some of those rare animals out on tour as much as I can. Obviously we don't see them as like every single day out in the field, but I work really hard to track wolves currently up in Wyoming in order to show them to people. And yeah, I love it. It's really enjoyable. But yeah, there's many different reasons why tracking is important and why it's a great skill to have.
- [16:13]
B
Okay. Valerie, how many people do you know that say, like, I track wolves?
- [16:19]
C
Zero. And I'm like, okay, so like Justin was saying earlier, from a young age, animals in, like, I. I have always been so fascinated by animals and have honestly dedicated my life to working with animals. And so that's awesome. The second that I found out that, you know, we were interviewing you, I was so excited and so in and just stalking your. Your social media of so many cool.
- [16:47]
A
Things that you do.
- [16:48]
C
And I was like, okay, I want to be this guy's friend. He is cool. He is so awesome.
- [16:53]
A
Yeah, we need to. We need to get you up to Wyoming. You can come tracking with me.
- [16:59]
C
I'm in. I do have a question for you. Just because, I mean.
- [17:03]
A
Yeah.
- [17:03]
C
What is your favorite animal to track and why?
- [17:07]
A
Ooh, it's a really good question. I will say right now it's the wolves, but I feel like it changes because, you know, tracking is, like I said, a continuous skill that you're. That you build over time and there's like different levels of Animals that are more difficult to track than others. I would say, like, once, like, originally it was probably elk. I really enjoyed tracking elk as a kid and followed them quite a bit. But I would say wolves are my favorite now and that's who I spend looking for the most out in the woods.
- [17:45]
C
Very cool.
- [17:47]
B
Yeah, Sign me up for that.
- [17:48]
A
I feel like. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, you're both welcome to come to Wyoming.
- [17:54]
C
Oh, I'm so in. Yeah, yeah, I'm so in.
- [17:58]
B
What is a. What does a typical day look like for you? Like, I'm sure that that's gotta be all over the place, but also, like, even just thinking about that question, it makes me super jealous because, like, I just imagine, like every day you're out in the wilderness. Yeah. Checking out animals.
- [18:16]
A
Yeah. You know, a lot of it is often out in the woods. There's also a lot of planning that goes into it as well. Like, I spend a lot of time actually at home tracking, quote, unquote, you know, on a computer looking at topography and landscapes. And then I feel like another thing that a lot of people don't realize is communication. You know, working as a team with other people who track wildlife to find animals is really important too. And so I will say I'm not in the woods every single day. Maybe I would say 50% of the time. A lot of it is, you know, researching the landscape and looking for specific habitats from, like, satellite views, for example. But. But yeah, it's. It changes from day to day. Sometimes you have to be just prepared if there's an animal sighting just to run up into the park last minute to go and see what's going on, to figure out which individual people are seeing up in the park, if you get word of a certain animal being up there and everything. So I don't know, I feel like there's not a typical day working at. Working in this field.
- [19:31]
C
Okay, I have a question.
- [19:33]
A
Yeah.
- [19:33]
C
So whenever you're out and you see, you know, an animal that is hurt, how much interaction do you have with them? Is that something that you interfere with you the type of, you know, do you guys tag them? I don't know. I would love to know more about that and kind of your interactions and interference with wildlife as, you know, a tracking guide.
- [19:57]
A
Totally. I would say for the most part, we have zero involvement with, like, an animal's welfare, so. And we do see injured animals. It's actually pretty common, especially in the winter, which is around this time of year, to see injured animals out in the field. It's a hard time and being in the wild it's hard. It's a harsh landscape and animals don't have a hospital to go to. Our goal as wildlife guides and our goal as wildlife trackers is really just to observe. It's not to become involved in the animals welfare or their survival. There are exceptions to that. Occasionally we, we never get involved hands on. But we will call people when we feel like it's appropriate. So like an example would be if a raptor was to get hit by a car. We would call like the Teton Raptor center to see if they would come and deal with that animal. Or if we found an animal on the side of the road that seemed injured we could call dispatch like if it was an elk for the national park. But we ourselves want to get involved and then the dispatch, the park rangers would handle that situation. And so we're really hands off. We're trying not to get involved with these animals. We're really trying not to interact with them. If we find animals while we're tracking, which we do sometimes, we try not to let them know we're even there. We try to stay hidden and try not to disturb them in any way. And so yeah, we're observers and we try not to get involved in their welfare which is hard sometimes because like if you see the same animals over many years you can create a connection with them.
- [21:45]
B
Yeah.
- [21:46]
A
And so it can be really hard to see nature take its course. But we kind of have to sit back and let it happen.
- [21:52]
B
I mean speaking of that, and a lot of people will know this but, but bear 399 that was recently hit. And if people don't know about Bear 399, she was a famous grizzly in Grand Teton. How old was she? Probably like 27.
- [22:11]
A
I think she was 28.
- [22:14]
B
28. And she recently got hit by a car and killed. And she was one of the most famous, if not the famous bear of Grand Teton. She had many litters that she was famous for. Even had 4, 4 cubs at one time. And she was the oldest bear I think that on record to even have cubs. And she, she had one cub with her I think when she was hit and I, I never actually found out what ended up happening with it but I think it was a year old so it might have been okay on its own, but I don't know. I'd love for you to speak to, to her and her legacy because like I'm sure that you've seen her probably many times.
- [22:59]
A
Yeah, I know. I was actually just thinking about her the other day, like, thinking about the last time we saw her. That's an interesting thing with wildlife watching is when you see an animal, you never know if it's going to be the last time that you see that animal. And so you always have to kind of appreciate those experiences you get. And so I've thought a lot about that with her. Yeah, she was definitely an icon and I mean, dare I say mascot of Grand Teton national park and drew thousands, thousands of people to see her. It was absolutely incredible. Some days, going up into the park and going through an area where she had been seen recently and seeing the amounts of people, you know, that had gathered to see her. I mean, it would be hundreds of people and there would be a row of cars almost a mile long trying to get a view of this bear. And so as far as her impact on us and the wildlife watching community and then also advocating for wildlife and bears, you know, in North America, she was, I mean, iconic, and she. She unknowingly, I think, helped her species out quite a bit, you know, being. Being that mascot animal. And I also think it shows, you know, that even animals that are so incredibly famous and live in the protection of the national park for a good portion of their lives are not immune to the dangers of living on a human landscape. You know, she was hit by a car. Not the person's fault. It happened at night and the person was driving the speed limit and it happened. It just happens. You know, a lot of us live in deer country and sometimes those deer run out into the road. In this case, it was 399, unfortunately. And so wasn't the human's fault. But it shows how even in really wild protected areas, even protected animals have trouble and often meet their end at the hands of people. As far as her cub, we have not seen him. We. We don't know where he is. The research biologists don't even know where he is because he's an uncollard, untagged individual. But he is totally capable and totally at the age where he can survive on his own. And so was about a year and a half old when she died. And he probably would have become independent in the springtime anyway. And. And so he's. He's probably going to be okay. Bears can survive after their first year without their mother pretty easily. And he was also in an area where there's not a lot of competition from other bears, too, which is in his favor, since other grizzlies pose a Big threat. But yeah, her. Her legacy is. I mean, she was an incredible animal and we're going to miss her a lot. And a lot of. A lot of us were talking the other day about how it's weird to go into Grand Teton national park and no, there's a zero percent chance of seeing Grizzly Bear 399. That's like, never happened before in 20 years. So, yeah, we're gonna miss her for sure. But she was a wild bear, you know, and I think a lot of people idolized her as a character. But no, she was a wild bear and lived and died as a wild bear.
- [26:30]
B
Yeah, very true. And I mean, that's a lot. I feel like that's a lot older than a lot of grizzlies live anyways.
- [26:38]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [26:40]
B
So it's not like. Yeah, have a long full life, that's for sure. And she had many cubs, you know, that are still in. Yeah, Teton. So, you know, totally.
- [26:51]
C
Her legacy lives on.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah.
- [26:53]
A
Yeah. And I mean, we still see her daughter quite a bit. Grizzly bear 610. She was, I mean, very visible this entire summer. And she didn't even have cubs with her. Usually when bears don't have cubs, they tend to vanish into the wilderness. And so it was really unusual, I feel like, to see 6, 10, 3, 9, 9's daughter without cubs all summer long in Grand Teton.
- [27:17]
B
Is that the. Because she had a daughter? Cis, right. Am I thinking the right bear? I think so. That she. They actually traded cubs.
- [27:26]
A
Yeah.
- [27:27]
B
And like adopted each other's cubs and stuff.
- [27:31]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's like that.
- [27:34]
B
I would love to know what these bears are thinking. Like, all right, this one's too much. This one's a trouble for me. I am trading you this for one of yours.
- [27:41]
C
Yeah, I'm a grandma. I'm done.
- [27:47]
A
Exactly. It's kind of a mystery about, like, how it happened. There's a lot of people that theorize maybe there was some sort of food source, like maybe a dead elk, and both bears came into the carcass and then somehow the cubs got mixed up, went with the wrong mom. But it's fun. We don't really know the situation, but it is kind of funny that, you know, 610 raised, I believe it was a male cube. Her. Her little brother or little half brother. That's why there's been a couple, actually instances where that's happened before with grizzlies. I. I've read of a couple instances of female grizzlies treating cubs in Yellowstone, which is fascinating.
- [28:32]
B
Wow.
- [28:33]
A
I think it has to do with, like, that maternal instinct. It's really interesting.
- [28:38]
B
Yeah. It'd be amazing to get inside their hair to know what they're. They're thinking and.
- [28:43]
A
Yeah.
- [28:44]
B
Why? But, yeah.
- [28:46]
A
The confusion of all of a sudden, I have three cubs instead of two.
- [28:52]
C
This was rude. I did not sign up for this.
- [28:55]
A
I have one more mouth to feed.
- [28:58]
C
Right. I have a question for you.
- [29:05]
A
Yeah.
- [29:06]
C
Like, any job that anybody ever has, people have these misconceptions of what you do for a living. So what is the most common misconception that you get? Like, this question that everybody asks you, that you're just like, oh, not even a little bit.
- [29:25]
A
Yeah. I think a lot of people for guiding think that we're, like, trekking through the wilderness, like, hiking over mountains and stuff. But what's really cool is we're actually doing a lot of this from the road, which, you know, makes it convenient for a lot of different people to come out on tour with us. You don't have to be, like, you know, extremely fit and outdoorsy in order to have this sort of experience with these animals. We take people on tour through the national park, and we do take people hiking when they want to go, but a lot of it is road based. And I think a lot of people think we're like, 20 miles, like, back in the woods and everything. I get that a lot on tour, they're like, we're going hiking. Right. And I'm like, we can, but, you know, we might see more, actually, if we cover more ground from the roadway. And that makes sense. Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't always recognize, like, the behind the scenes work. We do a lot of logistics work, especially for longer tours, when it comes to, like, maintaining our vehicles and communicating with each other about sightings and theorizing, like, what's going on with a certain animal. Like, when 399 was still alive, she would disappear, and we would always have conversations about, like, where did she go? You know, trying to figure these animals out. And so I think a lot of people think it's more simple than that, that we just go into the park and the animals are right there. But there's a lot of behind the scenes work in order to find these animals, and a lot of logistic work going on as well.
- [31:12]
B
Yeah, for sure. It's funny because, like, even with what I do with LGBT outdoors, somebody asked me what I do, and I. I tell them, you know, being the executive director for LGBT outdoors, and they're like, oh, that's so awesome. You always get to be outside and traveling and doing all this. Cool.
- [31:28]
A
Yeah.
- [31:29]
B
And I'm like, most of the time, I'm behind at a computer in my office.
- [31:34]
A
Yeah.
- [31:36]
B
As much as I wish that wasn't.
- [31:37]
C
The case, I made a joke. So all the ladies that I'm here with are actually going on a hike right now. And I was like, can I just tell you all that this is a, like, a little off that I'm missing the hike to be here, which is so funny. I was like to talk about the outdoors. I was like, I'm gonna call you after to see if I can join or what's happening, but, like, see if.
- [32:01]
A
You can catch up to them. Yeah, great.
- [32:03]
C
I was like, I'll go fast. I'll trek.
- [32:06]
B
That is so funny.
- [32:07]
A
I feel like, you know, for so much outdoor. Outdoor jobs and wildlife work, there's a lot of actual office work that people don't always take into account. Like, you spend a lot more time indoors than people realize to do research and to do work with animals like wolves and birds and all of that.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah, I love that. I love that. Sneak peek behind the curtain a little bit, Right?
- [32:33]
A
Exactly.
- [32:34]
B
What are some tools that you use in your line of work? I know that you mentioned trail cams earlier, and I've seen some of your trail cam footage, especially some that you just posted, which, once we get to the end where let you shout out your Instagram so people can follow you and check that out. But I'd love to hear more about the tools and maybe telling people more about trail cams and the benefits and how to use them.
- [33:00]
A
Totally. Yeah. We use a lot of different tools at our disposal. It kind of depends on, like, the methodology that we're using as far as, like, tracking the animals. So trail cams are really great, you know, to leave in the woods for sometimes months on end. The footage I just posted is from a camera I left in the months I left in the woods for three months. And so you can leave them for a really long time. We also use optics. Like, optics are so incredibly essential for what we do. So we use spotting scopes, and we use binoculars, and we use. We try to use the highest quality ones that we can. We can get. And so currently we're using Swarovski, but for anyone who's, like, wanting to get more into the outdoors, having a pair of binoculars will, like, increase, you know, the caliber of your experience immensely. When we're going out on tours, there's times where I will stand in front of a scope and scan an entire landscape for like 10 minutes, you know, just trying to find the animals that could be miles away out on the landscape. And so optics are so incredibly important. And another thing, we use our GPS units. I, I actually have an app called Gaia GPS downloaded on my phone. And then I use onyx trails as well, and so that helps us navigate. And I mentioned earlier how I use a lot of like satellite imagery to map and to look at specific habitats where I think animals might be. Well, we can do that in the field also. So like if I'm hiking somewhere looking for a specific animal and I come across maybe a corridor, a little valley or a trail that I think is like a, maybe a good connection between two different habitats and might be good for a trail camera, I can actually look on my GPS to see where that trail goes and what the topography looks like. And so technology, I feel like has come a long way and helps us a lot in finding animals for sure.
- [35:08]
B
I, I mean, trail cameras even now, like, I don't know what, what kind you have specifically, but there are some that just have the SD card that you have to go get out of. But there's now ones that have cell service and you can like download the photos to your computer without even going out to the camera as long as you have cell service.
- [35:29]
A
Totally. Yeah. You can get like the subscription based trail cameras. So you like pay for a monthly subscription and then they'll give, they'll just ding your phone. Like when an animal walks in front of it, like an elk or a mountain lion. You can look at your phone and be like, there is a mountain lion standing in front of my camera right now. Just so cool.
- [35:49]
B
I love that.
- [35:50]
A
I, I don't use those as much. I use Browning Browning trail cameras and I download all the footage in the field actually. So I never take the SD cards out with me. I leave the SD card so I don't have to take the camera down and I just download it in the field directly onto my phone, which is like the most effective way that I've learned to do it.
- [36:17]
B
Nice. Love that.
- [36:19]
A
Yeah.
- [36:22]
B
I'm sure like in your line of work, you've had all kinds of adventures. I could only, I could only imagine. But what are some like, some of your more out there, if you will, any close calls or fun, really fun memorial experiences or anything like that that really stands out?
- [36:49]
A
I mean, how, how dangerous are we talking about?
- [36:54]
B
Well, we are talking about mountain lions and wolves, which wolves are really attack People nearly as much as people think that they do, obviously.
- [37:02]
A
Yeah.
- [37:03]
B
But yeah, I mean, you're dealing with, you're dealing with some dangerous animals up there.
- [37:08]
A
Totally. Yeah. I've had, I've eaten a bunch of different encounters, not so much with dangerous animals. I've had a couple close encounters with bears while tracking this summer. I actually had three really close encounters with bears. I guess I can tell you this, this one story. So the trail camera that I just posted the footage for on my Instagram. When I was heading out to set up that camera, I had a very uncomfortable encounter with a black bear. Actually, I was hiking through the woods and knew I was in bear country. I had my bear spray and everything. And the strangest thing is I was trying to follow like bear safety protocol. Walking hiking in the middle of the day carrying bear spray and yelling, you know, being loud as I went through the woods. And for some reason this bear just didn't hear me. I. It was really strange. Yeah, I, I kind of came up over this rise. I was in a, in kind of like a meadow surrounded by trees. And there was this pond in front of me, but there was this little rise up over to the pond. And as I crested the rise, I stood up on top of a log and I saw something from the corner of my eye really close. And I turned and there is this giant black bear about 15ft away from me and it had not seen me.
- [38:37]
B
That gets your heart racing.
- [38:40]
A
Oh, yeah. Well, my first thought was, is it a grizzly? Because of course they're much more dangerous than black bears.
- [38:47]
B
Yeah.
- [38:49]
A
And so I looked down at it and it was actually had its head in the bushes. It was eating berries. And I unharnessed my bear spray. I had it ready and I said, hey bear. And it looked up at me really dramatically and we stared at each other for like 30 seconds. And in that moment, all I could, all I can think about looking back at it is that bear was deciding, do I turn and run or do I attack? And fortunately it turned and ran away. And then I never saw it again. I never got it on my trail camera. I imagine maybe it just took off into the hills. That was a very nerve wracking experience. I think that might be the closest experience I've ever had to a bear on foot hiking through the woods.
- [39:42]
B
You mentioned, you mentioned the difference between black bears and grizzlies or that there is a difference. Yeah, I would love for you to dive into that because there's totally different responses depending if it's a Black bear or grizzly bear? Which grizzly? Brown bear. Same thing.
- [40:00]
A
Yep.
- [40:01]
B
Because whatever. And you got to know which one it is because sometimes a black bear will be brown and can look more. Yeah, like a brown bear color. So can you give us some good identifiers and the appropriate response for each one if you were to be attacked, which hopefully you never will be? Good information to know just the case.
- [40:29]
A
Yeah, totally. I will say before I start that I feel like there is a misconception that black bears are not super dangerous. I My rule when I go hiking in the woods is that a bear is a bear. And black bears do tend to behaviorally be more tolerant to people. They tend to run away a lot more than grizzlies. But in a close encounter with a bear, if you do see a black bear, still treat it with respect because they're incredibly powerful animals. As far as identifying them goes, there are a couple, like key, you know, characteristics that I look for when I identify bears. The first thing is their head. Black bears tend to have a much smaller rounded head and their ears are a lot bigger and they kind of sit up on top of their head more and, and they have more of a rat like nose or a rat like face versus a grizzly bear has a square shaped head and has ears more on the side and they look smaller. The reason their ears look smaller is their ears are actually the same size but on a grizzly bear the ears are on a bigger body so they look smaller. And then grizzlies have a, like a flat nose. And so you don't want to identify a bear based off of its color because there are some incredibly dark colored grizzlies out there that look like black bears. And there's some black bears that have blonde coloration in their fur, just like a grizzly. And so color is not one of those key characteristics.
- [42:04]
B
Yeah.
- [42:05]
A
And as far as safety goes, you really want to try and assess the animal's behavior and then what species of bear you're dealing with. And so what I tell people is if you see a grizzly, if you're hiking through the woods scenario, you're hiking through the woods and you encounter a grizzly bear. You want to give that grizzly bear as much space as you can and back away with it. You'd want to do the same with a black bear. The difference is in what the bear does next. If a grizzly bear charges at you and you have bear spray, you want to use the bear spray. If you don't, you want to play dead. Because grizzlies, behaviorally, they're. They're built to tackle and fight their adversaries. They're not built so much to run away. They want to kind of neutralize their enemies more. It's kind of a way to think of it. And so if you act and the bear perceives you as less of a threat, it's less likely to continue that attack. And most bear, Most grizzly bear attacks tend to be, you know, bears that are defending themselves, they're either defending a kill they have or they're defending their cubs. And so if you seem like less of a threat, they're more likely to let you go or to leave you alone. Now it changes. If a black bear attacks you. If a black bear attacks you, you actually want to fight back. And that's because the. The motivation behind that attack is, is to attack and eat you. Because black bears typically run away. They don't. They don't usually fight their enemies. They usually run away unless they're cornered. And so if a black bear attacks you, you want to fight back. Obviously, if you have bear spray, you want to use that. And so I don't think that most people recognize that different, those differences. You know, there's this funny saying, we'll say on tour where it's black fight back, brown lay down, and if it's a white polar bear, good night, because you stand no chance a polar bear attacks you.
- [44:14]
B
And if there's a polar bear in Wyoming, then we have some major issues to begin with.
- [44:18]
A
Yeah, the authorities will get involved with that one for sure.
- [44:23]
B
That's funny.
- [44:24]
C
I have to giggle a little bit and go back to an earlier podcast where people, you know, gave us stories to read for them, and we went over that same thing. Yeah, it was a story about a dad, and he brought us, you know, family to go camping, and he got bear spray. And this is their first time going out. You know, so he gets the bear spray and applies it like mosquito repellent and is like, okay, let me spray our family. And they all ended up in the er and so also just something to tell people it's not a repellent, like mosquitoes, to save yourself that trouble.
- [45:05]
A
That happens all the time. So. Oh, my God, multiple times a summer, I get stories from people who, who say, like, yeah, this couple sprayed themselves with bear spray, or this person thought it was like bug spray and they sprayed themselves. And I've been bear sprayed, and it is awful. It is terrible.
- [45:25]
B
Yeah, that would be a hard pass for me. We are. We're actually going to take a quick little break and get a word in from some of our amazing sponsors, but we're going to be right back with more with Tyler. Winnebago Industries is a leading US Manufacturer of outdoor lifestyle products. Their goal is to help their customer, from glamping enthusiasts enthusiasts to off road explorers, embrace the outdoors through one of their recreational vehicles, powerboats or pontoons. Winnebago Industries is proud to partner with leading industry and outdoor oriented organizations such as US LGBT Outdoors who share in their desire to enable extraordinary mobile experiences for everyone. Together, we can all be great outdoors. Take your Indoors outdoors or Spacious Skies Campgrounds. A collection of 15 campgrounds and RV park spanning the eastern United States. Each location is unique, but all offer the perfect escape to the great outdoors. If you're looking to spend quality time with your friends and family or simply need a scenic home base for your nearby adventures, choose from RV sites, cabins, yurts, retro RV rentals or tent sites and enjoy on site amenities that offer convenience, creature comforts and fun. Visit spacious skies campgrounds.com for more information and easy online booking. We welcome and invite all campers to camp on the Spacious Skies Campgrounds. All right everyone, we are back with Tyler and I would love to be able to talk a little bit about your identity and how that has shaped your experience in the outdoors and especially as being a guide.
- [47:06]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So I, I identify as a CIS gay man and I am engaged to my fiance out here. I will say that working out in Wyoming, it can be tough, you know, being a gay man, just because there is that there's a little bit of a lack of community out here which unfortunately I feel like goes along with the stereotype that, you know, in cities there tends to be bigger communities than in rural outdoorsy places. But I will say that the company I work for and the community has been really welcoming. There's not so much of a big like LGBTQ community out here, but everyone in the community has been pretty accepting to us actually. And, and I feel really fortunate for about that because growing up, I grew up in a very outdoorsy rural community and people were not accepting at all. And so it's nice to see how far we've come. And I think one of the reasons I was super excited about doing this podcast with you guys is to create more of that community in the outdoors. Because I mean the outdoors, the national parks are for everyone, no matter your background. And so thank you guys so much for inviting me to join you guys on this podcast. Actually, it's Been. It was really exciting for me, and glad to know that people are building those outdoor communities because we need it, for sure. There's definitely not a huge community in Jackson, so as far as how it affects, I guess, me, I mean, people are accepting you. Be who you are, and. Yeah, I don't know if there's much more to say than that.
- [49:01]
B
Yeah. Have you noticed. Have you had any challenges as far as being.
- [49:07]
A
Yeah.
- [49:08]
B
Part of the community up there?
- [49:11]
A
I have challenges when I leave Jackson. So, like, Jackson in Wyoming is very much like a safe bubble. I feel very secure and safe in Jackson. When I travel elsewhere in Wyoming, I. I do get the people out there. Like, just me personally, having grown up in. In that environment, I understand the people, but I. It doesn't always feel like the most welcoming environment. And so I will say that a lot of people traveling through Wyoming feel like they have to be closeted. I feel like for safety reasons, sometimes I feel like I'm closeted when I travel through, you know, some of the more empty spaces out there, which I think is really unfortunate. I don't think it should be that way, but it's kind of like a safety thing, if I'm being honest. It's just part of the reality of living out here. The national parks, though, are incredibly welcoming, in my experience, at least, when I take. I take a lot of LGBTQ people on tour, actually, and, you know, I know the landscape. I know the human landscape out there, and so I take them to the friendliest places possible. And I've never had a bad experience in the national parks as far as, like, people being confrontational or anything like that. It's mostly outside of the national parks where I've had issues. Yeah. It's just. It's part of the landscape.
- [50:47]
B
Yeah.
- [50:47]
A
It's part of being a guide, I guess.
- [50:49]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody has different experiences and different states and different parks and everything, but I hope that what we do is help bring some representation and, you know, let people know that queer people like the outdoors, too, and there's going to be a place for us. And so that's what we're really trying to do, is trying to be able to make that space and make safe spaces for. For people to get out there and enjoy it. What role do wildlife guides play in, like, conservation and. And specifically, do you have any causes that are close to your heart?
- [51:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. You know, wildlife guides are really involved in the environmental education field. And, you know, across North America, across the world, there's all this incredible research being done, but the value of that research is communicating that to the public. And so that's kind of one of the things that I try to take on a lot when I am a wildlife guide is communicate the research, the efforts, the conservation programs that are going on in the national parks, but then also across the country so that people can, you know, be educated and be involved in those conservation projects. It's, it is sometimes unfortunate because so much research gets lost in, like, journals and in, you know, peer reviewed studies, and not a lot of people have access to that information. And so wildlife guides and environmental education is so important in bringing that information and those stories and that research to people. And so that is something I've really embraced as a wildlife guide, is to teach people about conservation and to try and get them to be inspired and to get them to be involved. We have this saying at the company, it's called sell the stoke. And that's what we try to do. We try to stoke people up, get them excited about conservation so that they want to be involved. And really, you know, just going on a wildlife tour, that is a form of getting involved in wildlife conservation. Some of the efforts that the company I work for puts forward is donating money and getting local businesses to donate money to wildlife conservation projects. So some of the big ones we work on are like fence poles, so taking down fences that are no longer being used, and then constructing fences along highways to prevent animals from crossing highways and getting hit, which now we just talked about. Grizzly bear 399. That is a huge problem in Wyoming and in a lot of western states. And, and so when we take people on tour, they pay for that tour. They're already giving money to conservation. And then if I can get them to stay in touch and to stay involved, that's, that's makes me happy. I mean, if I can get a couple of people every year to get more involved in wildlife conservation, then I feel like I'm making a difference.
- [54:04]
C
That's super awesome. What is? If, you know, I was an LGBT person or, you know, whoever, what would you say? Like, hey, come, come do this tour specifically? This is the coolest one that we have. This is. We already know that we feel really safe to come see you. We, you know, your national park is super supportive of us. So that feels good. So what would you suggest that we come and do when we get there?
- [54:26]
A
Ooh, there's so many, like, good options. It depends on the time of year. Honestly. If you came in the summer, I would suggest maybe one of the longer tours we do give, we do give some shorter four hour programs. I will say that when I, When I meet people on tour, I really want to get to know them. And sometimes it's hard to do in four hours, you know, because we're doing a lot in that time span. We're looking for animals, we're driving around. I'm trying to get to know my guests. And so the 8 hour and 12 hour programs that we provide are the ones where I'm like, I understand you as a person. I know what makes you click. We can have a deeper conversation about wildlife. And so I always encourage people to spend more time with me so that we can have more of those conversations and I can get to know people. My absolute favorite tours and experiences I give are the multi day experiences and they can be, they can be super long. I give tours that last eight days and we travel through the entire. Yeah, they're. They're absolutely incredible. We travel throughout the entire ecosystem. We see most of the animals that are available to see in that ecosystem. And I mean, we walk away from those tours like hugging and crying because we have some of the most incredible experiences. Wildlife watching. And those tours provide a deeper dive. You know, it's not so much surface level. A lot of our shorter tours are a lot of like, point and go. There's a moose, there's an elk. But on those longer tours, we can dive deep about the conservation and the biology of those animals, which is another reason why I really like them.
- [56:21]
C
So it sounds like you and LGBT outdoors really align. So it's like, cool. We're trying to put community together outside, so that's super cool to hear.
- [56:32]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And, and yeah, go ahead, Justin.
- [56:39]
B
No, I just disagreeing with her, like, yeah, absolutely. I love how much like our, our visions and our goals align and. Yeah, just making me want to go to Wyoming really bad right now.
- [56:53]
A
It's an amazing place. Yeah.
- [56:56]
B
Tyler, we'd love to do some rapid fire questions with you. So we're going to go through some of these. What's your favorite animal to track or guide?
- [57:07]
A
Ooh, at the moment, wolves. But that might change in the future. We'll see.
- [57:14]
B
Okay. Most surprising or unusual encounters you had in the wild?
- [57:20]
A
Oh, most unusual. One time it goes back to wolves. One time, my very first year guiding, I saw a pack of wolves run down and kill another wolf, which is incredibly rare to see. And I have, I've never seen anything like that. I, to. To this day, that is like the most unusual kind of raw, wild sock I've ever seen. Yeah.
- [57:52]
C
That's bizarre. Okay.
- [57:54]
A
Yeah.
- [57:54]
B
Yeah. All right. If you could go anywhere on an outdoor adventure in the world, where would you want to go?
- [58:01]
A
Ooh, probably top of my list right now is the Serengeti or the Masai Mara.
- [58:09]
B
Have you been?
- [58:11]
A
No, I've never been to Africa, and I've been trying to go for a while, but maybe in the next year or so, it'll happen.
- [58:21]
B
Amazing. I cannot recommend the Maasai Mara enough, especially during the great migration. It's just incredible. Incredible. All right. One item that you always have with you when you're in the outdoors in.
- [58:35]
A
Wyoming, it's bear spray.
- [58:39]
C
And again, we put that on, like, mosquito spray, right?
- [58:42]
A
Yeah. And binoculars. I think those are the two things I always have. Yeah.
- [58:50]
B
All right. Do you prefer river or lakes?
- [58:54]
A
Ooh, I think I prefer lakes.
- [58:59]
B
All right. And what's your favorite snack to have with you when you're on the trail?
- [59:05]
A
Ooh, my favorite snack in the woods is actually hiking through the woods and finding a nice huckleberry patch and sitting down in the middle of the bushes and just eating huckleberries. That's my favorite snack.
- [59:19]
C
Okay. That's awesome.
- [59:21]
B
Nice. All right. I dig this.
- [59:23]
C
I thought he was gonna say cheez. Its.
- [59:28]
B
Well, you never know. We had a guest on last week that favorite snack was cold fried chicken, so you never know. Well, cool.
- [59:41]
A
Never know what people are going to say.
- [59:43]
B
Right, Right. All right, well, I'd love to kind of wrap up a little bit with some closing thoughts, I think.
- [59:51]
A
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [59:53]
C
All right, Tyler, I would love to ask you, with your passion for tracking and wildlife in the outdoors, how do you hope to inspire others?
- [60:02]
A
Yeah, I. I hope that taking people on tour, you know, expires them, you know, teaching them about conservation and about wildlife. And, you know, a lot of the tracking I do, I try to get footage of. And my hope is that that also inspires people. A big part of my goal is also to teach young kids about conservation education. I think that we need more wildlife guides, we need more biologists, we need more researchers. And so that's one of my biggest goals, is I love taking kids on tour and teaching them about the outdoors and trying to get them inspired, you know, selling the stoke to them. And I hope that I can provide, you know, a safe space for anyone to come out into the outdoors. You know, whether that's a minority or whether it's a disabled person. You know, we try to provide an experience for all people, and the national parks are for everyone. And so I want everyone to come and join us on tour and experience the bears and the incredible views and, and the sounds and the sights and everything.
- [61:19]
B
Yeah, I love that. Are there any goals or projects that you are currently working on?
- [61:27]
A
Yeah, I'm working on a wolf video project right now. So I've been tracking wolves in the national park and then also outside of the national park for the past year and I have a lot of footage that I'm putting together and hoping to create a miniseries to release on YouTube or on Instagram and currently in the process of producing that right now. And so we have all the footage and everything. And I've never done a project like that before and so it is a learning experience and it'll, it'll be provided free for everyone on YouTube and on my Instagram and everything. So that's kind of what I've been working on. And hopefully, hopefully it goes well and people like it.
- [62:19]
B
Do you know when it'll come out or beat up?
- [62:22]
A
Probably in January.
- [62:24]
B
Okay.
- [62:24]
A
At some point. Pretty quick. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be, it's going to be short. It won't be like an entire like documentary. It's going to be like just miniseries. The goal is to educate people about wolves and to teach them about wolves outside of Yellowstone and about their biology and about some of the conservation work outside of Yellowstone.
- [62:49]
B
That's amazing. So with that then, where can people follow you and learn more about you and be sure to find out when that project is released.
- [63:00]
A
Yeah, people can connect with me on Instagram. My Instagram handle is just Tyler Underscore Greenlee. And then I have a link there on my Instagram page to my YouTube channel, which my YouTube channel currently doesn't have any videos, but it will once I start releasing that wolf footage.
- [63:21]
B
Very cool.
- [63:22]
C
I can't wait.
- [63:23]
B
We'll be sure to link those in our show notes as well so people can check them out. Mallory, you have any final thoughts? Or Tyler, you have any final thoughts as we wrap up that you guys want to share?
- [63:35]
C
I would love to invite you guys to check out his Instagram. I mean, some of the photos that you have on there are just incredible and it kind of gives you a little bit more insight into the types of animals that you get to see, which is just such a cool life. I'm a little jelly bellied, but I'm excited for you.
- [63:52]
A
Thank you so much. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, if people have questions about wildlife, you know, I am all about environmental education. They can feel free to reach out and ask me about questions. I have people asking me about their backyard wildlife all the time, and I'm happy to answer those. Thank you guys so much for inviting me onto this. I feel like you guys are doing some great work. We need more people out in the field. We need more community in some of these more rural, wild areas. And so I really appreciate you guys.
- [64:29]
B
Well, thank you. We. We greatly appreciate that and we are thankful for your time and sharing with our community and our listeners. I think there's a lot of great information that people are going to love taking away from this episode. So to all of our listeners that are out there, thank you for tuning in. Again, remember that if you want to check this out on YouTube, you can now watch these podcasts. All right, thank you for tuning in. I hope that you got something out of this episode. Be sure to go check out LGBToutdoors.com for all of the information about us and check out the Trailblazers Society. Until next time, get out there.