← LGBTQ Outdoors Podcast
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- [00:01]
Anton Upanco
I think there's this expectation that you have to be somewhere beautiful or somewhere remote or somewhere really kind of exclusive in order to participate in fly fishing. And that's just 100% not the case. My sort of approach is like, if it swims, I'm going to try to catch it.
- [00:26]
Justin Yoder
What do you do when you come out as LGBTQ and love the outdoors? What do you do when you see the outdoor space ruled by older white CIS men and desire a diverse community of outdoor lovers? Accept it, change it, create it. I am Justin Yoder and this is LGBT Outdoors.
- [00:47]
Hey, everyone, it's Justin Yoder, host of the LGBT Outdoors podcast, coming in to you today with no co host. So this is a little bit different. I'm getting ready to embark on Alaska trip tomorrow. So this will probably be released while I am summer, hopefully still alive at Alaska. But I'm looking forward to it. But just because of scheduling and everything, we weren't able to get Patrick or JC lined up. So it's gonna be me and our guests that I'm super excited about today. And I think. I think you're going to take away some cool new information about the outdoors and specifically around fly fishing today. But I did want to come to you and remind you about three things, particularly before we jump in with our guests. The first thing is LGBT Outdoor Fest. We're always talking about it, always promoting it. It's coming up September 12th through the 15th, so head over to the website, click on the events, go to LGBT Outdoor Fest if you want to learn more about it. Again, Dan Link, who is on Naked and Afraid, is going to be there. We're going to have about six or seven amazing workshops, some cool activities, high ropes course, doing some fly fishing there. It's gonna be a good time in Colorado, so I hope you can join us on that. We also have another adventure trip that has just launched. It just launched and it's about halfway full already. So we are definitely going to sell out on that. And it's going to be to Big Ben national park in South Texas. So if you're interested, go over to the website again, events, click on adventure trips and you can find out all the details there. It's a very reasonably priced trip and anybody that wants to come to it can just go over there, register and we would love to have you join us. So with that, we're going to jump in with today's guest, who is Anton Upanco. And Anton is a avid outdoors person. He is an architect in Los Angeles and loves to Fly fish when he has the time. So welcome to the show, Anton.
- [02:48]
Anton Upanco
Thank you for having me, Justin.
- [02:50]
Justin Yoder
Absolutely. We have connected recently, and I was really excited to learn more about you. You have a fantastic Instagram page that makes me just want to be outside all the time. But I wanted to be able to have you on our show and hopefully inspire some more people to get involved with fly fishing, or at least learn more about it, because I do. I feel like there's a very strong LGBTQ community in the fly fishing industry, especially more so than conventional fishing, but we'll dive into that a little bit later. But to start off, just share with our. Our listeners a little bit about who you are, a little bit about your background, childhood, and maybe how you got into fly fishing.
- [03:36]
Anton Upanco
Sure. So I am currently based in Los Angeles. I'm an architect and interior designer. Prior to living in Los Angeles, I lived in New York, and that's really where I got into fly fishing. So even though I lived in New York City, I occasionally get out and go to the Catskills. And, you know, the way. The way I started in fly fishing is I remember seeing someone do it. I was driving over a bridge in the Catskills with my partner at the time and saw someone in the river below casting, and just, you know, even though it was like a fleeting image, I saw it and was like that, whatever that is, I think I could be good at that. Of course, I was wrong. I was terrible when I first started.
- [04:22]
Justin Yoder
I mean, I feel like probably about everybody's pretty bad when they first start, unless you have some kind of a unique, special gift. But it's challenging.
- [04:33]
Anton Upanco
For sure. For sure. And it does look graceful when you see it. And it's casting, specifically, it looks graceful. And the way good casters cast you, you. They make it look effortless, so it seems like it should be an effortless thing. And then you pick up a fly rod for the first time, and then you're just tangled up and, you know, so. So. But. But that's really how I got started after. After seeing it, you know, signed up for a. A guide lesson with my partner. We went out, caught nothing, and then decided to really commit to it. Paid a guy to teach me how to cast, and then just every. Every weekend, basically would hit the water. And it took me almost a year before I caught my first trout. I caught other stuff, but. But in terms of being able to fool a trout and get, you know, get it right and actually hook into a trout, hook into something I was targeting. Took. Took quite A long time, so. But, yeah, I don't come from an outdoors background. My family's from the Philippines, and my family immigrated here in the mid-80s. And I grew up in. I was born in Southern California and grew up there and had very little exposure to the outdoors. You know, maybe had gone fishing maybe two, three times with. With the Scouts as a kid and didn't really know what. And it was conventional fishing, you know, in the ocean, conventional fishing in the salt. And the first time I was exposed to fly fishing, I think, was through a trout unlimited program. They have a trout in the classroom program where they'll bring. They'll bring an aquarium, and it'll have, like, trout eggs in it, and you. The kids sort of watch the eggs hatch, and then. Then they go and release them. So, yeah, one day I showed up. I can't remember what grade I was in. Maybe third, fourth. Fourth grade. But one day there was a. An aquarium in our science classroom with a bunch of eggs in it. And, you know, every time I go to science class, I'd like, look. And then one day they hatched, and then they got bigger. And, you know, just to see the process of their. Their eggs, their yolk sack kind of shriveling up and then being. Being sort of big enough to be released, we went out and released them. And, yeah, I think that that's really the first time I had thought of, you know, the idea of fly fishing had ever even entered my. My head because it was, you know, tu guys that came out, they also did a casting demonstration. But again, I had never. I had never really seen it in practice until I lived in New York. So.
- [07:22]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, no, that's really cool. I can totally relate to that, how it looks like it's very graceful. And, you know, you're just taking the rod back and forth, and it's supposed to be, like, perfect and follow beautifully, like, how hard can it be? And then I remember the first time that I tried it with Justin Bubanek, a friend of ours at the time. He was living in Colorado. And I was like, this is a lot more challenging than I expected it would be. But still a lot of fun, for sure. You mentioned that it was about a year before you caught your first trout. What other types of fish were you catching during that time?
- [08:00]
Anton Upanco
So there are a lot of native fish when I started fishing in. In both in the Catskills, like in the Hudson Valley, and then also in. What would you call them? Basically eastern Pennsylvania. So I guess that's in the Appalachians, really. And so native, a few native fish there, some warm water species like bass and stuff and creek chub and those kinds of things like shiner fall fish. Yeah, they'll take a fly pretty readily. Trout, you know, I think can be pretty particular about what they're, about what they're going for and whether or not the drift and the presentation are right. So it did take a while to figure that out.
- [08:47]
Justin Yoder
A lot that goes into that. But definitely. I'm curious, as a gay man, have you faced any barriers in doing fly fishing? You know, some outdoor activities, you know, LGBTQ people can face more barriers getting in than others. I know from what I have experienced just online and running LGBT outdoors, it seems like the, the fly fishing community is a lot more open. But I'm curious what your, your experience has been with it.
- [09:19]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, I, I mean, I would agree with you. I think fly anglers and the fly fishing community in general are, are pretty considerate people. They're people that are, you know, considerate of nature, considerate of others. Give other people their space when you're out, you know, you see somebody out fishing. So I, I would agree with you on that point that there is, there's a lot of openness and acceptance and just a general like good heartedness to a lot of fly anglers in terms of, I guess challenger challenges or barriers. I would say a lot of them maybe initially were kind of like in internalized, internalized shame or sort of fear. Like, you know, you get out, you get outdoors somewhere and you question whether or not you belong there. Right. It's somewhere, you know. You know, I think safety is never, never far from mind. And when you meet new people, whether it's here or abroad, you kind of don't know what the reaction is going to be should the conversation about your sexuality come up. So I think how I've dealt with that is just, is just trying to go out there and be confident but also have faith in, in people that when the conversation does come up, that people will be accepting. And it's not going to be anything that's going to really change their opinion of you, but rather something that's going to be an interesting point of conversation, if anything.
- [10:57]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, something that might be more of a positive than a negative because I can relate to that through a lot of different activities. But it's almost so often we're afraid that, of the negativity that can come to us that we're afraid to let our authentic self shine and show which once somebody gets to know us, they realize, oh, this is just a normal person, you know, like anybody else. And, you know, there's no reason to have barriers or walls against certain people, especially because of their sexuality, so. Absolutely.
- [11:38]
Anton Upanco
Yeah. I try to see it as something that is, again, maybe more of an asset than a. Than a deficit. Something that makes me unique. Right. Like, there are. There are gay fly anglers out there, but they seem like unicorns a lot, in my experience, that you're just like, oh, that's such a. Such a rarity. And it is something that. That can be really distinguishing and. And, you know, interesting part of a person that when. When you meet them.
- [12:07]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. Have you ever been out fly fishing with other members of the. The LGBTQ community?
- [12:14]
Anton Upanco
No. You know, it is. It's a rarity. Like, to be perfectly honest, for me, in. In my experience, I haven't met many other. Many other fly anglers that are part of the LGBTQ community. A lot of my. My fishing buddies are straight, and I think that's just sort of how the, you know, know, it's. It's. It's. You know, the cookies crumbled.
- [12:37]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, no, I totally get that. I have to connect you to some. I'm not sure if, you know, I mentioned Justin Bubanek earlier. I don't know if you know him or Josh McNabb, but those are two that come to mind right away that I think that'd be cool to.
- [12:55]
Anton Upanco
The names sound familiar? Yeah, I think. I think we might follow each other on Instagram. I think, really social media is how I've connected with. With a lot of fly anglers that are.
- [13:07]
Justin Yoder
Yeah.
- [13:08]
Anton Upanco
Yeah. Less so than. Than sort of on the water itself. But. Yeah.
- [13:13]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. That's one great thing about social media that's, you know, there's a lot of negatives, but there's some great things that come from it too. But I know that Justin used to live in LA as well, so he might. He might have some connections out there for you, so I might have to introduce you to.
- [13:30]
Anton Upanco
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [13:31]
Justin Yoder
He lived in Colorado then and then lived in Oregon now. But he does a lot of educational stuff with youth and adults, and he's led clinics for our organization before, so he's really big into that educational aspect of it as well, which is really cool and awesome to see for sure. So we all. When it comes to the outdoors, we all have different things that we enjoy. And some people might be listening to this and be like, well, fly fishing doesn't sound interesting to me. This is what sounds interesting to me. But we hope that People continue on listening so that they can gain stuff to it. But what was it about fly fishing that you really loved? And I think you made a. Maybe touched on it briefly in the beginning, but like, I, I know that you saw it and you wanted to give it a shot, but what is it about fly fishing now that you've been doing it? I'm not sure. How long have you been doing fly fishing now?
- [14:32]
Anton Upanco
About a decade.
- [14:34]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, so 10 years. So you tried it and stuck with it. So you obviously love it. What is it that keeps taking you back to it and that causes you to want to get out there whenever you can so much?
- [14:48]
Anton Upanco
Honestly, there's a lot of things I love about fly fishing. I think, again, sort of when I, When I saw it for the first time, the mechanics of it, that sort of the gracefulness of casting itself is definitely something that I enjoy about, about the sport. There is something very, I don't know, for lack of a better term, just magical about getting the line to unfold exactly the way you want it, being able to place it exactly where you want it. And then when you do fool a fish into taking your fly, it's like you've got your. You've got your hand on the line and it's sort of an. It's an immediate thing. As soon as a fish takes that, you feel that you have a direct connection to another animal. And it's, it's like a very pure connection. And you just, you feel everything right? You feel every head shake, every direction it wants to go, and they're, you know, there's a saying that the tug is the drug and fly fishing, and it really is true. It's, it's, it's immediate, it's direct, and it's like so real as soon as you hook into a fish. So I would say that, you know, that that is, that's something that. When it all comes together, the casting, the presentation, the fly selection, sort of getting into position and stocking a trout and getting it to take, that's. That's, you know, it's just magic. So, yeah, that is. I, I also think it's. You never know what you're going to get into when you go out fly fishing. Every single, Every single time, every single cast, it's essentially like an exercise in hope. Like, this could be the biggest fish of my life. It could just be another fish, but it could also just be the one that's like, oh, that's it. That's the picture that goes up on the mantle and you're like, oh, wow. Yeah. So, yeah, it's an opportunity to be helpful. And I love that. I love getting outdoors and just. And having that sort of sense of hope, like, this could be it. This could be, you know, beautiful fish.
- [16:50]
Justin Yoder
That's awesome. I love that. Are there any specific techniques or tips or anything that you would recommend for beginners? Because as, as I know, at a surface level and, you know, way, way on a deeper level, there is so much that goes into fly fishing. You know, it's not like you're just going to go to run to Walmart and pick up a pole and a couple lures and you can start fishing, you know, like, because you've got your main line and the lead and the tip it, and then tons of different flies, some that float, some that sink, and try to figure out what the insects are that they're feeding on at the time. And it can just be very overwhelming. And not even. Just, not alone, just the casting and learning how to cast. But what are, what are some practical tips for somebody that they're like. They're like you. They drove by and they've seen somebody fly fishing and think, that's beautiful. You know, it's sunrise, they're standing in the river, that beautiful line is going, and that looks amazing. What are some practical things that somebody can do to learn to fly fish? And I know you mentioned that you and your partner that got a guide, and I think that that is probably the. The best way because I. I think even for me, I'd have a hard time trying to figure it all out or even figuring out enough to get started. But if somebody can't maybe afford a. A guide, what are some good tips that you could give somebody to be like, this is some practical steps that you could take to start learning how to fly fish?
- [18:24]
Anton Upanco
Sure, sure. Yeah. I think the, the main thing is, is if you can get connected to people that already fly fish, whether that's going to a fly shop or finding people through social media or a local club or anything like that, and connecting with those people and having sort of the. The conversations about what you need, what things you do need and what things you don't need. Because there's a lot of stuff that is just marketing and it's just so thrown at you. And then there's sort of the essentials of it, which you just need a rod, a real line, and then some leader and a fly. And if you can get sort of those basics and practice with those, I think, you know, I would encourage. Let's say beginners, if you've got some money you want to spend on a rod, you don't necessarily need to buy the most expensive rod. It's not going to move the needle for you. It probably be better to spend some money on a rod and then maybe, you know, hire somebody to give you a casting lesson would take you a lot further than, you know, trying to get some necessarily top of the line kind of gear. So I would say that because casting will really open up everything else for you. It'll allow you to target specific fish, it'll allow you to just be able to enjoy it more. And there is a steep learning curve. So once you overcome that, that initial learning curve with practice and with, with, let's say, lessons or connecting with people that, that do cast well, the, the sport really shifts. It goes from being something that's just difficult at every turn and again, just being tangled or being hung up in trees or not having, you know, your sense about you on the water. Once you can get the casting out of your head and it becomes muscle, it becomes, you know, it's not about strength, it's about timing and it's about getting that right. And once that becomes second nature, you can start to really focus on, on everything else. And for me, that's where the, the joy really comes out and the, the ability to observe when you're out in nature. Because if you're too focused on casting sort of overtly and trying to make it work, trying to force is, that's, that's a distraction. And you'll see when you get out there and it does click, you're like, oh, okay, now I can do other things.
- [20:57]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, yeah, love that. And you mentioned like, kind of like the sense of finding a community that does fly fishing already to get plugged into that can help you out. I fully agree with that. I think that that's a great route to go. Do you, what role do you think that fly fishing community can play in promoting inclusivity and diversity themselves?
- [21:27]
Anton Upanco
Well, I think the community, and maybe I'll break it up here into two kind of buckets. Like the fly fishing community is like an industry and then the fly fishing community is just people that are out there. Fly fishing. I think with the latter individuals, fly fishing, you know, being out on social media for what, you know, all the grief it gets about people like blowing up spots or like, you know, it just, it is, it is a great way for people to get connected. And the number of people that I've met through just the dm or, you know, this, this past year I had a. I took a good chunk of time off of work to travel and to fly fish and was traveling a lot and just ended up reaching out to people via social media. And, you know, I was at one point in Japan and then at one point in Slovenia and reaching out to other fly anglers to be like, hey, I'm going to be here in like a week. I don't know anything. I don't, you know, I don't know the water or anything, like, help me get set up. And the number of times people have really, surprisingly been like, awesome, yeah, I'll pick you up. You don't have a rod, that's fine, I'll let you borrow mine. We can, you know, have just really showed up has been, has been really surprising to me. And I think if individuals, you know, like the fly fishing community as individuals continues to, to do that and to make it a sport that is welcoming on that, that personal, individual level, that that'll do wonders in terms of getting people to feel comfortable being outdoors and spending time fly fishing. But I think if you were to look at maybe the industry, like, what can, you know, that the, the fly fishing community as an industry do to promote inclusivity? I think, I think they're largely in moving in that direction, right? In terms of continuing to, whether it's through advertising or through their social media accounts or through their, you know, kind of their, their product stuff or their brand ambassadors, having those, those sort of modes represent the, the, the shifting demographics of the country. Like, you know, demography isn't, it's not static. Right. It's like people are foregoing, let's say, traditional paths of like, okay, you know, this is gonna be. I'm not gonna settle down and have family. I'm gonna spend more time outdoors, live nomadically. And, and I think the landscape in terms of the people who do fly fish and who do get into outdoors activities is, has really shifted a lot. You know, it is younger. It is. There are far more women, there are far more people of color, there are far more anglers and outdoors people of just different abilities and different shades. And when, when the industry itself reflects that, it can be just a really reassuring and really positive thing to sort of see yourself in, in the brand imagery and that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I see the industry kind of shifting away from, maybe not totally away, but, but at least acknowledging people outside of the historic kind of base of, you know, just older guys, older white guys with money. Right? Yeah. So, yeah, I think in terms of the industry or just reflecting the actual demographics of the sport. To be more inclusive and to be more representative.
- [25:22]
Justin Yoder
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- [26:36]
Yeah, I love hearing that and from my, my little experience with it as well, I, I would totally agree and say that as an activity, fly fishing seems to have more diversity, especially in representation and like the ads that you see for marketing and everything, I just see a wider variety than some of the other activities. And I really, I hope and believe that we are seeing kind of starting to see a shift from that in other activities and other, and the outdoors in general, because that's obviously what we need. We. When, when people can see themselves in, in an ad or they can see themselves in an activity, you know, they can be, it can be more relatable and cause them to want to be able to try it and think this isn't just for older, wealthy, you know, white men, you know, and, and that's what we obviously want to try to change as well, because the outdoors is for everyone. You know, nobody, nobody owns all of the outdoors and can put it just in this little box. We need to break that open and be able to let all people know that there's a place for everybody into the outdoors, whatever that might be. I often hear people say that the outdoors just isn't for me. And I think that most people, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this. I think that most people could find something that they enjoy doing outside if they would just get outside and find that activity and that Might be something as simple as going to a cool valley and watching the sunrise or the sunset. It doesn't have to be some grand huge spending a lot of money on something, but the outdoors just has so much to offer and so many health benefits to that as well.
- [28:33]
Anton Upanco
Yeah. Just to add to that, I think as it relates to fly fishing, there might be. Well, I guess just going back, quick point. I think brands and retailers realize it's, it's poor optics and it's poor business to keep the sport inclusive. And by sort of broadening the base, it's like they do wonders for their own, for their own bottom line, but, but also just. Yeah, I think, I think it actually does change how people perceive, perceive the sport. And it's, it's great, great to hear you say that you think fly fishing is, as far as outdoor activities goes, one activity that maybe is more representative in its sort of imagery that it promotes. So that's interesting to hear. But to your point about getting out there, I think there's this expectation that you have to be somewhere beautiful or somewhere remote or somewhere really kind of exclusive in order to participate in fly fishing. And that's just 100% not the case. I think if you can, you know, my sort of approach is like if it swims, I'm going to try to catch it. And it doesn't really matter where it is. It could be, you'll see it a lot of times in urban settings like in Los Angeles or in Denver or in New York. Like there are very vibrant, active fly fishing communities in the middle of those cities. Like in the heart of Los Angeles, people fly fish for carp in the LA River. You know, people target carp as well in South Platte, in Denver. So there's, there's, you don't have to, you know, spend a fortune and go somewhere remote or pay for like an expensive guide and lodge and trip in order to get, get that time. The, the feeling is exactly the same when you have a, when you have a fish at the end of your line. Right. Whether it's like you're at your local pond, in your local park fishing still water for bluegill or, you know, in the middle of a city fishing for carp and, you know, moving water, the experience is, is, is the same. So I, I would encourage people to not think of it as like, oh, I have to get all these things in order and do this in order to have the experience. The experience is actually probably a lot closer than I think most people would think.
- [31:06]
Justin Yoder
I love that you brought that up. Because I think a lot of times people think that fly fishing is all about trout fishing. That's probably what it's more known for, maybe salmon as well, but you can fly fish for anything. And again, going back to Justin Bubanek when he led in la, that's when I first got connected with him and he was in. I don't even know what you, you probably know better than I, but there was this concrete around where he was fishing and going after, after these carp and having a great time doing it. But yeah, like you were saying, you can, you could fly fish for, you know, little panfish, bluegill all the way up to fish in the ocean, going after huge blue marlin and, and barracuda, just all these big fish that are out in the ocean as well. So there's no limit on it. And you don't have to feel like you have to be around just cold water where you can strictly hit the trout. So.
- [32:09]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, absolutely. And also for people that live on the coasts, I, I think the last people, People tend to not associate fly fishing with saltwater as well, but it is, it can be a really effective way to, to fish the salt is to, is to fly fish. And, and let's say here in, in Southern California, there are a bunch of species, you know, halibut, corbena, there's croaker, there's perch. And there are a lot of people that do fly fish from the shore, fly fish from the surf in the middle of, you know, in the middle of like Santa Monica and kind of the most urbanized place, just dodging tourists on their back cast. You can, you can find, you know, if they're fish you can find, you can find them.
- [32:59]
Justin Yoder
And yeah, yeah, definitely talking a little bit more on the environmental and conservation effort side of it. I feel like fly fishing, you know, anybody that's involved with fly fishing, I believe has a deep connection and appreciation for nature as a whole. And there's a lot that goes into that around, you know, protecting waterways from not only pollution, but erosion and making sure that the habitats are available for breeding, for the leg thing, the eggs aren't disturbed, that the right food is around by the right vegetation and everything. Are there any environmental efforts or conservation efforts that you're involved with that you especially like or are connected to?
- [33:57]
Anton Upanco
There's no shortage of ways that people can help, help ecosystems and our sort of cold water and our fisheries in general. Whether that's like a river cleanup that's organized by like a local kind of community or something that's organized by Trout Unlimited. There are a lot of ways that people can get out in terms of what I've done at least recently, last summer and again a little bit later this summer I'll be working with the National Forest Service and working to do some restoration work in the Golden Trout Wilderness, which is a part of the Indio National Forest in the Sierras. It is the sort of the native range of the Golden Trout, the state fish for California. And you know, over the years their natural habitat has been degraded a bit by ranching, cattle, sheep ranching, and a lot of the meadow streams that they live in suffer, have suffered as a result of that wrenching. Right. The loss of vegetation, the water table dropping and erosion sort of, you know, running unchecked. There's. So that's an effort that I've been working with. And yeah, I, I think again there's, there's really no shortage. If you go out there and you're, you're picking up garbage anytime you're out or you know, joining like a tree planting or a river cleanup, those are all, those are all great ways to get, to get involved and do something for the resource itself and to preserve the resource so that it is, you know, anybody that comes after you gets the same experience that, that you have had. And I think that is also kind of like, that's just a lesson in equality. Right. Of like this is what I, this is what I received and I'm going to leave something that looks, that looks like this to the people that come after me.
- [36:10]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. I'm wondering for some of our listeners who aren't familiar with fly fishing and trout specifically, you know, you mentioned livestock, cattle, sheep, whatever it may be. I think a lot of times people don't understand the, the ramifications, the long lasting effects that that can have on the waterways. Can you explain a little bit more in detail about how especially farming can be detrimental to the fisheries? And when we talk about fisheries also just for people that talk about that might be new to it, not talking about specifically like raising fish in, in a fishery to be released, which is kind of a thing too, but specifically where we're going fishing and there's good, good fishing, but a lot of times we're thinking livestock. You know, that's land, fish or water. What do these two have connected and how do they affect each other?
- [37:18]
Anton Upanco
Sure. Well, you know, I am, I probably can't speak about this from a scientific perspective. Right. I'm not a biologist or a rangeland management kind of specialist and I know There are opportunities for those two things to coexist. And you see it out in the west all the time where responsible land use can coexist with resource management. If anything, maybe I'll speak to specifically the work that was done in the Gold Trout Wilderness last summer. Basically, people get, have historically had permits to graze their cattle up high up into the Sierras in the summer months. And really what happens there in terms of, let's say specifically that meadow I was working in to restore, when, when animals come through and they graze, they reduce the amount of vegetation which, you know, has, has a bunch of different effects. One of them is like you, you lose habitat for insects, right? And that sort of bug life there. You also lose shade on the water and sort of natural lies that trout might use. And so the result is that water temperature increases just because it's got more exposure to, to the sun. And then as the vegetation kind of dies out or like native sedges and grasses get, get chewed down, the water table will, will drop and that'll like, loosen up the soil and erosion will kind of take its toll on the landscape. So you have meadows that really, they'll change their character and they won't, they'll no longer be great, great habitat for, for, for fish. And in places like the Golden Trout Wilderness, where it's like this is the native range for this fish, it's endemic to this area. It doesn't exist anywhere else naturally. It's, you know, been introduced elsewhere. But you know, it's, it can happen really quickly, I think. Let's say. I don't. Maybe, maybe in the last like 50 years like that, the, that particular meadow that we were working in had changed and its character had changed and it's, it's, it's suitability as being, for being habitat for native trout just, just, you know, it just changed and went, it went down. It was no longer as viable of a, of a habitat. But so, yeah, at times those two things are competing. But like I said, I do think there are ways that both of those things can be managed. So it's beneficial for sort of both sort of needs.
- [40:20]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, absolutely love that. Just saying like, you get involved and I feel like from those that I know in the fly fishing community, they just seem really passionate about getting involved as well. Not just going out and actually fly fishing, but making sure that the resources are there for future generations so that everybody can enjoy it. So I love that aspect of it. I'd love it if you could share maybe a memorable or transformative fly fishing experience that you've had that stands out because I'm sure that you've probably had many over the. Over the last decade. But what are some of those mountaintop memories, maybe that you could share?
- [41:07]
Anton Upanco
Well, okay. I just took a sabbatical from work, so after working in architecture for a long while, I decided I need a break. And I took last year to travel and to fish. And I made a goal for myself to fish 52 new rivers in 52 weeks. So try to average one new river a week. And it had to be a new river. It had to be somewhere I hadn't fished before. And, yeah, managed to do that. And it took me kind of all over. All over the world, but all. All across the west as well. All through Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico. Utah. Yeah. And. And. And parts of California that I had never fished at before. Nevada.
- [42:01]
Justin Yoder
And what time period?
- [42:05]
Anton Upanco
You mean, like, when did I start?
- [42:06]
Justin Yoder
Like, how long did it take you to.
- [42:09]
Anton Upanco
Oh, to do that.
- [42:10]
Justin Yoder
Do that?
- [42:11]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, it took me 50 weeks.
- [42:14]
Justin Yoder
Wow. So almost. Almost a new river a week.
- [42:19]
Anton Upanco
Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to average a new river every week, which, you know. Yeah, was like, I want to see more water. I want to cover more water and get better at this thing. And yeah, that was. That was a wonderful experience, and I did it alongside. I was also trying to complete a few. A lot of states will have a native trout challenge or a heritage trout challenge, and so I was actually working on completing the Western Native Trout Challenge, which is an initiative that tries to get people to understand native fish and their historic drainages. So you're supposed to catch a set number of fish or a set number of species in a number of states. So like, six native trout in their native and historic ranges in at least four states. And you can't, you know, and. And so that's sort of the starting point. But you can. You can take it basically as far as there are native trout species, which I think is. You're like 18. Catch 18 fish across 12 states. Then you're like, that's the highest level of it.
- [43:29]
Justin Yoder
That's cool. I love that they put that. Those challenges out there. It's like, have a goal for you to go after. So that's cool. You mentioned. Okay.
- [43:42]
Anton Upanco
Sorry. No, I was going to say, yeah, it's a goal and it's also a great educational tool. Like, a lot of people don't realize that a lot of times they're fishing and they're fishing for. For fish that have been introduced. Right. So, like brown Trout or rainbow trout where they're not historically or historically native to too. So it's an opportunity to learn about like, oh, wow. This particular drainage and this far eastern side of Nevada has like, some remnant population of like, trout that exists nowhere else. Or, you know, you're up in the remote part of the Sierras or, or you know, there. There are fish that are just so. Have evolved to be so singularly kind of isolated that people don't even realize they're they're there. And a lot of times people will fish for, you know, rainbow trout or brown trout. What is. Those are. Those are much more prevalent, but there's a. A bunch of. Of native trout that are just like equally beautiful and kind of totally, totally just inspiring to fish for because they're. They're survivors, you know, they've just. They've been at it forever.
- [44:52]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, I kind of going off of that last question, you. You said that you took those 51 weeks and was traveling all over the U.S. it sounds like maybe all over the world. What are some of the most beautiful places or unique places that you've been fly fishing?
- [45:11]
Anton Upanco
Of those, there were a lot, A lot of. I would say the most interesting experience of. Of that was going to Slovenia to fly fish for Timon. They call them Hoocho over there, but they're the largest salmonid and that was a great trip just because, you know, in a totally new. Totally new place with totally different kind of system of managing the rivers and the fisheries where it's a system of local clubs. So you have to have somebody in a local club help you get. Get fishing. You know, the natural beauty is sort of one thing, but from a. From a fishing perspective felt a lot like the way I've heard the early days of like steelhead fishing were in that people had to. People there like literally Frankensteining their lines to get like heavy sinking tips and like fishing lighter flies and they're just. They're there. It felt like a very experimental kind of fishery where people are fishing new rods that they're having to develop specifically for that fishery. New rods, new lines, new techniques and to sort of see that that process kind of happen in. In like live or at least be in sort of the early stage of it was. Was amazing. And yeah, everyone there was just super friendly and it was cool. I. I didn't end up actually landing a time in which are like, you know, they're like. A good one would be over a meter. They're just the massive, massive fish. And it's a really limited window when you can. When you can target them. So it's like November, maybe like, end of November until about February, and you have to be off the water at a certain time, and you can't start before a certain time. It's, like, very heavily regulated because these fish are. Are really just their trophies, and they're, like, beautiful fish. But, yeah, managed to hook into one. But of course, like, it was just it being cold, cold, cold. Just slovenian winter fishing all day. My hands had, like, kind of locked up, and I couldn't get a great hook set on this. On this fish. And, yeah, shook the hook and it was, like, devastating. But. But, yeah, I would say even though. Even though it's, like, tough, it was. It was a great, great experience.
- [47:47]
Justin Yoder
I was going to ask, so how does that affect you? Like, obviously, a lot of time, money, and effort went into a trip like that after a fish that you have probably dreamed about, and then not to come that close and not actually get one. Obviously there's some frustration in there. But does that also then just like, fire you up to get back out there and go again? Or how does that. How does that play into it?
- [48:14]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think. I. I don't know who. I can't remember who said it, but I. I've heard before that there's some part of every. There's some part of every angler that's rooting for the fish, right? To. To like you. You want to meet that fish on. On its level, give yourself no undue advantage, and you're just like, okay, you. It's me. And we're gonna. We're gonna. We're gonna go at it. I'm gonna try to fool you and try to get you in. Then I'm gonna let you go. That's it. I just wanna. I just wanna. I just want to hold you. I just want to see you. And then you're free to go. I'm not gonna do anything else. It does. It does fire you up, and it gives you a reason to fish again, right? The ones that get away are like, that's what. That's what. At least for me, it's one of the things that, like, you're like, okay, I'm gonna. I gotta go and seek some redemption on this. So it does fire me up. It is heartbreaking in the moment, and people get mad, but you just. You gotta let it go because, you know, it's. It's.
- [49:15]
Justin Yoder
What else can you do, right?
- [49:17]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, it's part. But you've yeah, you've lost it. And it's like, yeah, you're. Again, I think you're rooting for the fish. You're a little. In some ways, you're like, okay, you, you, you, you know, outsmarted me on this one, and you can't do anything about it.
- [49:30]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, like, challenge accepted for next time.
- [49:34]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, exactly.
- [49:36]
Justin Yoder
What advice could you give anybody in the. In the community that is interested in pursuing fly fishing or anything in the outdoors, really? You know, because, you know, a lot of times the queer community is raised in urban environments, which I hear people use as an excuse a lot, or they weren't raised as an outdoors person, and I know you weren't either. So what kind of advice would you give somebody that might be interested again in fly fishing or really any type of outdoor activity?
- [50:10]
Anton Upanco
Oh, you know, I would say just don't be nervous about starting and don't be discouraged by early failure. Like.
- [50:23]
Justin Yoder
Like.
- [50:23]
Anton Upanco
Like I said in the beginning, it took me a really long time to get into my first trout. And with a lot of outdoor activities, there is a. There can be a steep learning curve. Last summer, I. I was spending some time in Utah, and I was like, oh, I'm going to pick up mountain biking. And I just, like, you know, I got a mountain bike, and I thought it would be like riding a bike, but it's not. It is just. It is so technical, and it was so much more difficult than I expected. And, you know, I. I haven't. Haven't. Didn't take my own advice. I haven't kept up with it, but it. It is. It just reminded me that, like, you're not always good right off the bat. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't do something just because you're not nailing it right off the bat. If you want to pursue something, just, you know, pursue it and stick with it. And again, there's like, there. There are ways to overcome the steep learning curve for a lot of outdoor stuff. And one of those ways is really community. Right. It's like, by being with people who are good at those things, by being with people who. Who sort of push you and encourage you to be better. And.
- [51:34]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, by.
- [51:35]
Anton Upanco
By reaching out. And I think for fly fishing in particular, like, one. One thing you can do is reach out to a fly shop and, you know, just be like, hey, what's. What's the bare minimum I need to get set up and be successful out on the water? And, you know, they'll get it. They're. They're not going to try to, like, upsell you and make you buy the most expensive things that are just going to be like, okay, in terms of what you need. This is. This is like that. And you can get out in the water. You can be successful with those things. But, yeah, I think. I think reaching out for help when you need it and. And not giving up is maybe the advice I'd give.
- [52:13]
Justin Yoder
Yeah, I, like, I pictured that when you were talking about the mountain biking, and you're like, this is not your regular biking. And it's kind of like it is with fishing. Like, you know, like, conventional fishing is like, you're regular biking. Okay, we got this. But then fly fishing, it's like, oh, this is mountain biking.
- [52:32]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, it's exactly that. Like, how hard could it be? You know, it's riding a bike, and then you just, like, all of a sudden introduce rocks and gravel and. Oh, man. Yeah.
- [52:43]
Justin Yoder
Yeah. I'm curious, looking ahead, what are your hopes for the future of fly fishing and the community around it?
- [52:50]
Anton Upanco
Oh, I. I think I. I guess I would say I hope to just see it continue to expand and to. Yeah, fly fishing is such a niche sport kind of to begin with, but I think that's also what makes it. That makes it kind of awesome. It's difficult, and it's all these things. And then when you do something, like when you do the big thing in fly fishing, like catch a sailfish or just do something kind of crazy like that, it's like, wow, it just is exponentially kind of cool. And my hope for fly fishing would be just to continue to see it open up and to see, you know, to see more. More queer people, more people of color, more women, more young people, frankly, out there fishing and. And doing. Doing awesome stuff, catching big fish and just like, you know, being celebrated for it, because I think, you know, people love to do that anyway. You see somebody with, like, a hog of a trout and you're just like, oh, that's amazing. Right? That's like, people get psyched for you. And I think the community kind of has that already. And so I would love to see it just, you know, just to continue to grow in ways that we're seeing all of those. All of these groups kind of more represented in fly fishing. So, yeah, I think that would be my hope for it.
- [54:30]
Justin Yoder
That's awesome. And kind of wrapping up a little bit. Where can people follow you and be able to connect with you?
- [54:38]
Anton Upanco
So best way, I guess, to reach out would be on Instagram. My handle is Anton. That's my first name Anton Philippe. So A N T O N P H I L I P P E On Instagram, I post some. Some fishing content out there. It isn't like a, you know, purely fishing dedicated account, but it is pretty biased towards. Towards fishing. And yeah, I would say, you know, along the lines of what I was mentioning earlier about reaching out and being connected and sort of having fly fishing have that grassroots element to it of people getting connected and making community sort of through this vehicle. I would say if anyone wants to reach out or has. Has questions or just is based in Southern California, wants to get out there to not. To not be afraid to just like, you know, slide into someone's DMs and do it. So please reach out if anybody wants to.
- [55:39]
Justin Yoder
That's great. Love it. And finally, I would love it also if you could tell our listeners, you know, if you have a message or thought that you would like to leave them with, especially those that may not be all that outdoorsy might be nervous about trying to get into the outdoors, or they're just trying to. Struggling to find that community to get connected with. What are some thoughts or message that you might have for them to encourage them that.
- [56:12]
Anton Upanco
Well, I think a lot of what your organization is doing is. Is trying to get people to see that being queer and being in the outdoors, those are not incompatible things. Right? Those two things are not exclusive of each other. And I think. And I can understand why people might be hesitant to be in the outdoors. I think people in the LGBTQ community can often carry around with them a concern for safety. Right? Not. Not an unjustified one either. Concern over acceptance. And oftentimes asks themselves like, oh, is this space for me? Is this thing for me? And I think the answer as to whether or not the outdoors is that it's like, it's. It's a resounding. Yes, it is. It is for you. The outdoors, like, like you said, they belong to everyone. No one has a monopoly over it. So I would encourage people to get out there and recreate in our. In our public lands, because that's. That's what they are. They're public. They belong. They literally belong to you. So, yeah, be out there and go do it. Go do some awesome stuff, 100%.
- [57:34]
Justin Yoder
And I'll say this too, like, if you're listening and you don't know, we do have chapters around the US we don't have chapters in every state, but we have ambassadors who are dedicated to doing events in their community and getting our community connected and getting out there. So we might have chapters in your area, which you can find on our website. We're going to also put Anton's Instagram in the show notes so that you can follow and connect with him. And, Anton, it's just been a pleasure having you as a guest today. I think our audience is going to resound with a lot of what you had to say, and I hope that it encourages others to get out there and try something different, whether that's fly fishing or just anything getting outside and active in the outdoors in general. So thanks for coming on the show.
- [58:25]
Anton Upanco
Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Justin. I appreciate it. I appreciate you offering the. The invitation and, you know, much respect for what it is you're doing in this space. I think it's. It's a great thing. So keep on, keep on doing it.
- [58:40]
Justin Yoder
Thank you. We appreciate that. All right, listeners, thank you for tuning in again and we will be having another episode up for you before too long. And until next time, get out there.
- [58:53]
Thank you again for joining us this week. If you have a campfire conversation story you would like to share, please email it to us at infogptoutdoors.com follow us on Instagram @LGBToutdoors and join the community at facebook.com groups LGBToutdoors. Become a partner by joining our Patreon, where you'll gain access to monthly bonus stories and exclusive content. For more information on today's episode, check out the Show Notes. For information about LGBT outdoors, LGBT Outdoor Fest, LGBT local chapters, or to sign up for our newsletter, visit LGBT outdoors.com and if you're enjoying the show, please rate, review and follow wherever you listen to podcasts.