Hush, Little Baby | 4

Summary

Liberty Lost - Episode 4: "Hush, Little Baby"

Release Date: June 30, 2025
Hosted by: TJ Raphael
Podcast Series: Liberty Lost by Wondery

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Introduction

In the fourth episode of Liberty Lost titled "Hush, Little Baby," host TJ Raphael delves deeper into the harrowing experiences of young women confined within the Liberty Godparent Home at Liberty University. This installment focuses on the tumultuous moments leading up to and following childbirth, highlighting the emotional and psychological struggles faced by the teens, as well as the coercive practices of the maternity home.

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Zoe's Story: A Birth Without Hope

The episode opens with Zoe experiencing her first contraction while still at school, reflecting her internal struggle and fear about her impending delivery.

• Zoe (06:04): "I just wanted to maybe wait as long as I could because I was scared of going to the hospital."

Zoe’s anxiety is palpable as she navigates her contractions secretly until her counselor, Jamie, detects her distress.

• Jamie (06:32): "I'm very unsure about the whole thing."

Despite her pleas, the staff at the Godparent Home initially refuse to take her to the hospital, emphasizing their control over the delivery process.

• Toni (13:05): "Once you start having contractions, they decide when you can go to the hospital."

Eventually, under immense pressure, Zoe's family intervenes, leading to a rushed and chaotic delivery where Zoe is forced to relinquish her baby shortly after birth.

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Toni's Struggle: Battling Medical and Institutional Control

Toni, another resident, faces a similarly distressing situation at the age of 13. Her late arrival at the hospital underscores the dangerous delays imposed by the home.

• Toni (14:22): "Childbirth always comes with potential complications, but when you're 13, like Toni, it's especially dangerous."

In the delivery room, Toni grapples with pain and the emotional turmoil of losing her child, Carissa, to adoption despite her desperate desire to keep her baby.

• Toni (16:10): "She put her daughter in my chest... I wanted time to just kind of freeze so that I could enjoy her."

The staff's interference raises questions about the legality and ethics of their actions, highlighting a systematic effort to prevent these young mothers from retaining custody of their children.

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Abby's Heartbreaking Departure: A Mother's Loss

The episode poignantly shifts focus to Abby, who faces the most devastating scenario. As she goes into labor, Abby clings to hope that her parents will support her decision to keep her baby. However, the institution's grip proves too strong.

• Abby (21:13): "I just remember holding him and the first thing that pops into my brain is a sand glass timer that represents three days and just deciding that that sand is not going to move."

Despite Abby’s desperate attempts to understand her options and reclaim her parental rights, the adoption process is expedited, leaving her powerless to prevent the loss of her son, Jay.

• Abby (27:28): "I don't want it to be real. I don't want it to be happening."

The emotional climax occurs during the placement ceremony, where Abby and Nathan, another young mother, are forced to watch as their children are handed over to adoptive parents, sealing their heartbreaking separation.

• Abby (40:17): "I just watched them holding him and felt empty inside."

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Emotional and Psychological Impact

Throughout the episode, the psychological toll on the young mothers is evident. Abby's inability to handle the loss of her son without support illustrates the deep emotional scars left by the Godparent Home's practices.

• Abby (29:44): "And I ran inside and I just screamed and I wailed and I sobbed like someone who was dying for as long as my body could tolerate it."

The systemic manipulation and lack of genuine support from both the institution and her parents exacerbate Abby’s trauma, leaving her feeling isolated and hopeless.

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Conclusion: A Glimmer of Defiance

Despite the overwhelming control exerted by the Godparent Home, Abby's resilience begins to surface towards the end of the episode. Her desperate actions to seek Nathan's help signify the first steps toward resistance against the institution's oppressive system.

• Abby (42:06): "I ran as fast as I could out of my door and up my street in the dark at night. And I called Nathan and I just said, will you come get me?"

This pivotal moment sets the stage for future episodes, promising a narrative of defiance and the quest for autonomy against the backdrop of coercive evangelical practices.

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Key Quotes

• Abby on Signing Adoption Papers (27:49): "I don't want it to be real. I don't want it to be happening."

• Toni on Forced Hospital Delivery (13:05): "Adoption, praying that I would make the right decision once my child was born."

• Nathan on Holding Jay (24:43): "We talked about his lips and his ears and his toes and we inspected his whole body together."

• Abby on Emotional Collapse (29:31): "I just collapsed onto the ground."

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Production Credits

• Host/Reporter: TJ Raphael
• Senior Producer: Natalie Shisha
• Senior Story Editor: Phyllis Fletcher
• Producer: Rachel Young
• Associate Producer: Maria Dennis
• Additional Production Support: Emily Locke and Malachi Wade
• Fact Checking: Jacqueline Colletti
• Original Score: William Ryan Fritsch
• Sound Design & Mixing: Jamie Cooper
• Audio Assistance: Daniel William Gonzalez
• Sound Supervisor: Marcelina Villalpando
• Music Supervisor: Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync
• Managing Producer: Heather Baloga
• Senior Managing Producer: Lata Pandya
• Development Producer: Olivia Weber
• Supervising Development Editor: Rachel B. Doyle
• Executive Producers: N' Jeri Eaton, George Lavender Marshall, Louie and Jen Sargent for Wondery

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Looking Ahead

As Liberty Lost continues to unravel the harrowing realities within evangelical maternity homes, "Hush, Little Baby" serves as a crucial episode highlighting the urgent need for systemic change and the voices of those striving to reclaim their autonomy. Stay tuned for the next episode, where Abby and Nathan's journey toward resistance begins to take shape.

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Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform. For early and ad-free access, consider joining Wondery+.

Transcript

[TJ Raphael]

Wondery subscribers can binge all episodes of Liberty Lost early and ad free. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Abby opens a window to let in some air for her entire time at the Liberty godparent home, she couldn't open a window without setting off an alarm. But now, in the last few weeks of her pregnancy, she can breathe in the sweet summer air whenever she wants. She's at a family friend's house in Lynchburg with her mom, Debbie, and her two big sisters. Her mom wanted to be nearby in case Abby delivered early.

[Abby]

I asked her, do you think it would be possible for me to come stay with you at the house that you're staying at? You're in town. You're my mom. Why do I need to stay here? And she seemed really nervous about saying yes to me.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby's mom didn't want to do anything that might put her daughter's scholarship at risk. But she did get the home to agree to let Abby stay with her if Abby sticks to all the same rules. No phone, no Internet, and things like.

[Abby]

Keeping me from seeing people, keeping me from talking to the father, that kind of thing.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby doesn't push back on any of it.

[Abby]

All I could feel in that moment was I no longer live in this horrible place. I was just like, let me go to my room and pack my bag. Like, that's all I could think about.

[TJ Raphael]

The house is nestled in the woods on the edge of Liberty University's campus, but it feels a world away. During the day, Abby and her sisters go on walks and play card games on the living room floor. They listen to all the new music Abby missed out on while she was at the home.

[Sarah]

I remember the Coldplay album came out that summer. Viva la Vida. And I remember, like, listening to that.

[Abby]

And what else?

[TJ Raphael]

What's the other one we listen to all the time?

[Abby]

Oh, John Mayer. Yeah. Where the light is.

[Sarah]

Yeah. The live in la.

[TJ Raphael]

Whenever their mom pops out of the house, the girls also sneak in some tv. Like the Secret Life of the American Teenager. It's the ABC Family show that made actress Shailene Woodley a star. I can't believe I'm old enough to.

[Toni]

Use the word pregnant in a sentence.

[Abby]

Be pregnant. And that was about a girl who became pregnant and she made the decision not to have an abortion.

[TJ Raphael]

Over the course of the first season, the girl's life plays out a lot like Abby's.

[Abby]

And I just remember watching that show so desperate for it to progress so that I could see how she navigated it and what she decided to do and how her parents were treating her.

[TJ Raphael]

It's the closest Abby can get to looking into a crystal ball. Everything still feels so uncertain. But Abby's big sister Sarah, thinks their mom's showing signs that she might be changing her mind.

[Abby]

The fact that mom came up and.

[Sarah]

She was there and she was, like, being supportive, like, is she gonna, like, help facilitate whatever Abby wants?

[Abby]

It felt like the only right thing is for Abby to keep her baby.

[TJ Raphael]

But before the finale airs, Abby goes into labor.

[Abby]

I didn't find out what she was able to do. I didn't get to watch her give birth and see the depiction of what was about to happen to me.

[TJ Raphael]

She never sees that the girl in the show gets the exact thing Abby's been praying for.

[Abby]

I think I can do it. Will you let me do it?

[Toni]

Will you let me keep the baby? I'll be a good mom.

[Abby]

I promise I will.

[TJ Raphael]

Of course, Amy.

[Abby]

Of course you can't.

[TJ Raphael]

And I will help you as much as I can. As the time came for each of the girls to give birth, Abby, Toni, and Zoe all held out hope for a moment like this, for someone to help them get their own storybook ending.

[Debbie]

This episode is brought to you by Audible. In today's complex world, we all need stories that help make sense of what's happening around us. That's where Audible comes in. With audiobooks and exclusive content that can open our eyes to new perspectives and hidden truths. Want to learn more? New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com liberty lost or text liberty lost to 500. 500.

[TJ Raphael]

From Wondery. This is Liberty Lost. I'm TJ Raphael.

[Debbie]

Quiet now, my darling Morning's drawing close.

[Abby]

I'll sing until the sun comes up.

[TJ Raphael]

Then I'll have to go. This is episode four, Hush little baby It's a dewy spring morning in May, just a few days before Mother's Day. Zoe's sitting in the schoolroom when the first contraction hits, but she doesn't tell her teacher.

[Sarah]

I just wanted to maybe wait as long as I could because I was scared of going to the hospital. I didn't know what happens next because they didn't really tell us what happens next.

[TJ Raphael]

She grits her teeth through the pain, but stays in her seat all afternoon. Once class is over, she dutifully heads to her appointment with her counselor, Jamie.

[Sarah]

I was sitting in therapy with Jamie, and she said, your lip is sweating. And I was like, really?

[TJ Raphael]

Jamie calls in the staff nurse who times Zoe's contractions. They're coming close together. This baby is on its way. So the nurse asked Jamie to take Zoe to the hospital.

[Sarah]

Jamie must have been all of maybe 21. And Jamie was like wide eyed and you could tell she was just very unsure about the whole thing. And Jamie had this little sports car and she like drove around to the front and I started to get into her car and she's like, wait, wait. And she went inside and got a trash bag and put a trash bag on her seat because she was worried I would break my water during the drive.

[TJ Raphael]

Zoe's mother arrives at the hospital just as her labor intensifies.

[Sarah]

I kind of almost went out of my body and I was looking at myself down a tunnel. Being 16, not knowing what to expect or what's going to happen, not knowing what's going on with my body. All of the extreme pain plus shame on top of all of that. And you know, just the fear, it was, it was, it was overwhelming and short circuiting to my little body and psyche.

[TJ Raphael]

The doctor and the nurses gather around her. They tell her to breathe and push and then finally her daughter Kaya is here.

[Sarah]

Once she arrived, you know, all the pain disappeared of course. And they put her on my chest. It was the most amazing and beautiful moment. I wanted time to just kind of freeze so that I could enjoy her and hold her and spend some time with her.

[TJ Raphael]

But that's not the plan.

[Sarah]

One of the things that they told us in the home was that we shouldn't stay in the hospital for long. Like we should leave as quickly as we can because obviously we don't want to get too attached to the baby. And I know that my mom definitely after I had Kaya, I got this sense of let's go, let's go, let's go.

[TJ Raphael]

Zoe lays in bed with Kaya while she still can.

[Sarah]

I remember this young, tall doctor kind of breezed into the room and he told me, you know how beautiful my baby was and congratulations, take really great care of her. And he walked out of the room and I remember thinking he doesn't know. Someone didn't tell him that I wasn't bringing her home. And I remember thinking that I hope that he never finds out that that thought stays forever somewhere in the world that I would be bringing her home.

[TJ Raphael]

The next day, a woman from the godparent home shows up with a stack of papers Zoe reads and signs them, waiving her parental rights. Zoe places her daughter in a bassinet and gently tucks her in with a few gifts. There's a locket With Zoe's picture in it and some letters she wrote and.

[Sarah]

I sent her with a blanket that I had crocheted and some clothes. And I told her I loved her. I asked her not to hate me, and I said goodbye.

[TJ Raphael]

Zoe's daughter will stay with a temporary foster family, People who have been vetted by the godparent home who can be trusted to watch over the child until she's given to the adoptive parents.

[Sarah]

And we packed up and I gave her to the nurse, and she wheeled her away. There was just a deep sense of numbness, A little bit of dissociation, Just kind of a deep ache in my body.

[TJ Raphael]

Now it's Zoe's time to leave. She heads downstairs while her mom brings the car around. But when her mom pulls up, it's in a car Zoe doesn't recognize.

[Sarah]

She was in a new red Pontiac Fiero, A sports car.

[TJ Raphael]

Zoe arrived at the hospital in a sports car, and now she's going to leave in one.

[Sarah]

It was my, I guess, 16th birthday present. And I remember seeing the car and mom getting out and kind of saying, surprise. And she hugged me, and I was crying, and I think we kind of pretended like I was crying because I had just gotten a brand new car.

[TJ Raphael]

Zoe's mom wants her to remember she can go back to just being young and enjoying it. Like the last nine months didn't even happen.

[Sarah]

I remember seeing the car, and it was a two seater, and I remember thinking I couldn't even bring her if I wanted to. It's only a two seater. There's no room for a car seat.

[TJ Raphael]

And Zoe's mom tries one more thing to cheer her up.

[Sarah]

So we went to Kings Dominion amusement park the day after I gave birth and went on some roller coaster rides. I was feeling like a mack truck had hit me, and it just. It was terrible. I think I might have only made it through one roller coaster. At some point, I told my mom, like, I need to go.

[TJ Raphael]

They make their way back to the hotel where they're staying. The plan is to hide out for a few more days until Zoe's stomach goes down. The official story is that she's coming back from boarding school. In her hotel bed, Zoe falls fast asleep.

[Sarah]

But I woke up because I just heard these odd guttural sounds. And it took me a minute to even identify what it was, but it was actually me. I was crying in a way that I'd never heard myself. CR I was deeply grieving. And I remember my mom just got up out of her bed and she came over and she just held me and I cried myself back to sleep. But every part of my body, psyche, just everything was grieving in that moment.

[TJ Raphael]

A few hours after Zoe gives birth, her roommate Tony gets jolted awake in the middle of the night. She's having contractions and they're bad.

[Toni]

Like, I couldn't stand through them or anything.

[TJ Raphael]

She forces herself out of bed, then down the stairs, step by step, and through the common areas until she finds a staffer. Tony wants to go to the hospital, but the staffer says it's not time to leave yet.

[Toni]

Once you start having contractions, they decide when you can go to the hospital. They completely control your delivery.

[TJ Raphael]

The home didn't always believe girls when they said they were going into labor. Brittany Reynolds, who worked at the home for about a year and a half, said some house mothers used amniotic fluid test strips to make sure the girls weren't lying when they said their water broke. They could be faking it to leave the home early. Tony's mom and grandmother arrive at the godparent home at 6 o' clock in the morning. By that time, Toni's contractions are coming close together.

[Toni]

And my mom was like, so we're going to the hospital. And they told her, no, you can't take her to the hospital.

[TJ Raphael]

Six more hours pass. Childbirth always comes with potential complications, but when you're 13, like Toni, it's especially dangerous. You're more likely to die during delivery or have the baby die at noon.

[Toni]

They still told her that I wasn't ready to go to the hospital. And my mom was like, I'm taking her.

[TJ Raphael]

20 minutes later, Toni and her family burst through the doors of the maternity ward.

[Toni]

You know, everybody's rushing. Do you need a wheelchair? Do you need this?

[TJ Raphael]

They hook her up to a monitor, which shows that the baby's heart rate is dropping. The umbilical cord is wrapped around her neck. They'd arrived just in the nick of time. This baby needs to come out now. Tony's delirious with pain. The delivery room feels hot and crowded, and more people keep pouring in. There's the hospital staff, midwife, Tony's mom and grandmother, and some women, women from the godparent home. Through the blur of pain, Toni realizes one of these women has taken her hand.

[Toni]

They were trying to figure out if they were going to do a C section, and she's standing there holding my hand like, wait, wait, wait, let me finish praying.

[TJ Raphael]

She tries again to push Toni towards.

[Toni]

Adoption, praying that I would make the right decision once my child was born. And I just was like, get her away. I just wanted her away from me and nobody was helping me. I was like, why are you here and why isn't anybody stopping her?

[TJ Raphael]

Everyone else is too focused on what's happening. This baby is coming and it's coming fast. Less than two hours after getting to the hospital, Toni's daughter has arrived. Her name is Carissa and she's beautiful.

[Toni]

She had tons of hair. She was tiny, tiny. She was 6 pounds 14 ounces. She was just this perfect little round face and so snuggly and so sweet. I was so happy.

[TJ Raphael]

She gives her mom a turn to hold her granddaughter. She's promised Toni that they'll be taking Carissa home with them. And as she watches her mom hold her, Toni knows her mom will keep her word.

[Toni]

She immediately was just loved her. She immediately was so happy to see her. And we were all crying and it was just like that picture perfect moment when she was born.

[TJ Raphael]

The godparent home finally has no more power. Toni's baby is hers.

[Toni]

You know, there was so much just relief. I'm done. I'm free.

[TJ Raphael]

Seventeen years later, in the middle of July, it's Abby's turn to go into labor.

[Abby]

Anything could still occur or shift or change.

[TJ Raphael]

Her story could play out like Toni's if all her stars align. Or Zoe's if they don't. But she won't know for sure until she's on the other side.

[Debbie]

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[TJ Raphael]

Abby buries her face in her childhood blankie. She's waiting for the epidural to work its magic. Her mom's sitting next to her hospital bed in a full face of makeup.

[Abby]

She was very ready to be picture worthy. She was ready for the day.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby's pain starts to ebb, but she begins to feel something else.

[Abby]

I told someone that I had this really strange pressure and sure enough, I was fully dilated and he was basically already making his way out.

[TJ Raphael]

Her big sister Sarah is by her side.

[Abby]

It was exciting. It felt like this is our baby being born. I remember my sister being asked if she would like to hold one of my legs and trying to fixate on the fact that my sister was there with me.

[TJ Raphael]

Less than 30 minutes after Abby begins to push her son Jay is born.

[Abby]

Is he crying? Yes, he's crying.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby strains to get a look at him. Nobody's talking to her.

[Abby]

Where are they taking him? Why do they need to do that? Why do they have him under there over that light? When do I get to hold him?

[TJ Raphael]

Abby doesn't say any of these questions out loud. Even in her hospital bed. She's trying to be a good Southern girl.

[Abby]

Don't be difficult. Don't be a problem. Keep a smile on your face.

[TJ Raphael]

Finally, a nurse wraps up Jay and brings him over to Abby. Jay's not his real name, by the way. We're using a pseudonym because Abby's son is still a minor today.

[Abby]

And I just remember holding him and the first thing that pops into my brain is a sand glass timer that represents three days and just deciding that that sand is not going to move. It's not going to move. And this time is going to last forever and I'm not going to miss a moment of it.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby has three days in the hospital with Jay. When the last grain of sand falls, a foster family selected by the godparent home will show up to take him. And when he's 10 days old, her parental rights will be legally terminated.

[Abby]

I could not understand the reality of losing him. I had only just met him.

[TJ Raphael]

On day Number one, her son's birthday. She's able to ignore the sand trickling through the hourglass and just be there.

[Abby]

With him, just staring at him and inspecting every single tiny little detail about him. And I was just so peaceful. I was just so peaceful holding him.

[TJ Raphael]

The next morning, it's harder to hold on to that feeling. Abby and her family pass Jay back and forth. Sarah gently strokes his head.

[Sarah]

You're just like, oh, my gosh, you.

[Abby]

Just looked so much like our family. He, like, looked so familiar.

[TJ Raphael]

But Abby knows that her future with her son is in her father's hands. In her hospital room, her dad whips out his cell phone and starts taking pictures. He can't stop smiling.

[Abby]

I remember watching him with my son and just being full of hope that he saw him as his first boy that he would never want to lose. Like, maybe if his heart comes online and he emotionally decides that he wants the same thing that I want, everything could change on a dime.

[TJ Raphael]

Sarah's still hopeful, too.

[Sarah]

Surely nobody can, like, look at this.

[Abby]

Baby and not want this baby in our family. And, like, even my parents holding him like they were so. They seemed so like they loved him.

[TJ Raphael]

But an hour passes, and then two and three. And the words Abby hopes to hear from her parents. We don't want to lose him either. Still don't come.

[Abby]

At that point, the sand timer is just speeding by. And I am panicked and I am terrified and incredibly emotional.

[TJ Raphael]

But Abby isn't the only one who wants to keep Jay. And there's still a little time left on the clock for someone else to speak up.

[Nathan]

This unbelievable excitement to see my kid and see Abby.

[TJ Raphael]

It's almost the end of Abby's second day in the hospital when Nathan arrives in Lynchburg with his parents. The hospital staff leads them to an atrium for a short meet and greet with Abby and Jay. In the atrium, Nathan lifts his son out of the hospital bassinet. He brings him over to Abby, and they sit side by side on the couch.

[Nathan]

We talked about his lips and his ears and his toes and we inspected his whole body together. He looked so much like me and her. And, like, I just, like, instantly fell in love with him. And I kind of took him over to the corner by myself and was, like, dancing and holding him, and I was trying to figure out what I could to make him remember me in 15 minutes. So I sang the same song to him the whole time, even though I wanted to talk to him in hopes that somehow his subconscious would remember that.

[Abby]

I was waiting for what, when, and.

[TJ Raphael]

Where The Hail Mary was going to occur.

[Abby]

And for me, that room was that.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby watches Nathan's parents watching him. Maybe his mom and dad can still stop this.

[Abby]

I thought that they were all knowing adults just like my parents acted like they were.

[TJ Raphael]

They could speak to Abby's parents from a place of authority.

[Abby]

Are you going to beg and plead and are you going to have the right thing to say to my parents to get through to them?

[TJ Raphael]

But they just keep watching Nathan holding Jay. Someone right outside the room reminds them they need to keep the visit short. Nathan's parents say, okay, we'll get going. But Abby says, no, please stay a little longer.

[Abby]

I started to very strongly realize that if they left, I was hopeless and alone.

[TJ Raphael]

They agree to stay, but nobody says a word.

[Abby]

I think everyone in that room was experiencing paralysis. Like, one wrong word and this moment of getting to hold him could be over. They had no clue how to help me. They were terrified, and they had no idea what to say or do. So they kept their mouths shut and tried really hard not to cause any problems. It's really messed up, but my parents had done a very good job of making them feel powerless. Holding that rape charge over their son's.

[Nathan]

Head just felt like a moment that, like, was so over so incredibly fast. But I never wanted to end.

[TJ Raphael]

The next morning is Abby's last with Jay. Abby is laying in bed with her son when the godparent home foster mother and the adoption caseworker, Deanne Hamlet walk in. They greet Abby's mom and sister Sarah and pull up chairs next to Abby's hospital bed. They've brought the relinquishment papers. It's time for her to sign them.

[Abby]

I don't want it to be real. I don't want it to be happening. Like, my whole body's just resisting the situation. And I'm looking around the room looking for a sign on somebody's face that they're seeing me. No one asked me if I was okay, if this is what I wanted, if I needed more information, more time, Nothing.

[TJ Raphael]

She's given a pen and told, sign here.

[Abby]

I remember I said, how am I supposed to sign these papers when I can't see them? And my hand is shaking so hard, I'm not going to be able to sign my signature. And to that, they simply responded, breathe. And it's okay if you can't see, and it's okay if you can't make your signature look pretty.

[TJ Raphael]

Her big sister Sarah, looks on in disbelief.

[Abby]

I just, God, like, how can you do that? Like, how can you force someone who is holding their baby, weeping and sobbing and saying they can't do this, to sign a freaking paper?

[TJ Raphael]

But the adults in the room don't back down.

[Abby]

It was made very clear. I don't have a choice. This is what I have to do, both by my mother and the agency worker. It's time. You need to pull yourself together and do what needs to be done.

[TJ Raphael]

So Abby signs the papers. Soon after that, she's wheeled out to the front of the hospital, holding Jay close. Her dad is waiting outside with the car. It's a moment a lot of new moms remember. They're about to bring their baby home. It's terrifying, but wonderful. The start of something completely new. But this moment is different for Abby. In front of the hospital, the foster mother walks up to her and takes her son from her arms.

[Abby]

The next thing I see is the brake lights and her driving away. And I just collapsed onto the ground.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby and her family head back to the house where they've been staying.

[Abby]

And I ran inside and I. I just screamed and I wailed and I sobbed like someone who was dying for as long as my body could tolerate it.

[TJ Raphael]

Over the next few days, Abby grows desperate. Everything inside her is telling her she needs to stop this. She begs her mom to set up a meeting with the adoption agency caseworker. But her mom is hesitant.

[Abby]

She was afraid that I was going.

[TJ Raphael]

To lose the scholarship.

[Abby]

And my mom was just like, what do you want to ask her? Like, what information are you wanting? And I was just like, I don't know. I don't know what my options are. I don't know what can happen or what will happen. Like, I know that there's like a 10 day period of time and, like, it's not over yet.

[TJ Raphael]

She's right about the 10 days. It's different in every state, but in Virginia, that's how long she has to take back her parental rights. She doesn't know all the details or what she has to do, but Abby still has the power to stop this. Rakuten is the smartest way to save money when you shop, because you earn cash back at over 3,500 stores. Fashion, beauty, electronics, home essentials, travel, dining, concert tickets and more. Your favorite stores like Lowe's, Levi's, and Nike pay Rakuten to send them shoppers. And Rakuten then passes on a part of that payment to its members as cash back. You're already shopping at your favorite stores. Why not save while you're doing it? It's A no brainer membership is free and easy to sign up. Get the Rakuten app now and join the 17 million members who are already saving. Cashback rates change daily. See rakuten.com for details. That's R a K u T E N. Your cash back really adds up.

[Abby]

I was just so desperate for information.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby and her mom just pulled up to a Starbucks on the edge of campus outside of Liberty University. Inside, their star students waiting in line for frappuccinos. Abby looks around and spots Deanne Hamlet, the caseworker from Family Life Services, who was with her at the hospital when Abby signed the adoption papers. They find a table. Abby doesn't waste a second.

[Abby]

I just started asking the agency worker questions like, what is the current situation? What happens if I take my rights back?

[TJ Raphael]

But Deanne answers Abby's question with more.

[Abby]

Questions, like what my plan was. And my mom would say she can't come home. And she'd say, so what are your plans? And I'd say, I don't know. I don't have plans. I don't have anything. But I'm asking you questions. I don't know what to do, but I feel like I can't live, I can't survive. How am I supposed to go on? You know, like, can someone answer that question? How. How can I live without him? She looked at me, that agency worker did, and she said, could you really live with yourself taking this gift away from this couple? Could you really live with yourself? Me asking how I was supposed to survive, she twisted it around on me and asked me how I could live with destroying strangers. And my mom sat right there and agreed with her. And so my experience is everybody outside of my body agrees that my desire for my child is selfish. So how was I supposed to know what else to ask after that? You know, I got. I just got defeated. I didn't know what else to ask.

[TJ Raphael]

I reached out to Deanne several times to talk about all of this, but she never responded to me. As a caseworker for a licensed adoption agency, Deanne had a legal obligation to make sure that Abby wasn't under duress when she agreed to do the adoption and that she knew there were alternatives. But during the meeting, Abby doesn't hear anything about the dozen social services that might be able to help her get housing and food and formula and health insurance, things that could let her be a mom with or without support from her parents. Instead, Deanne watches Abby cry until the meeting just ends. Eleven days after Abby gives birth, intern Brittany Reynolds shows up. For work at the godparent home.

[Abby]

I walked into where the kitchen was and it was like something was very different that day.

[TJ Raphael]

The dining room is being transformed for a celebration.

[Abby]

And so I finally looked around and was like, what's, like what's going on? And I don't remember who it was, but they were just said, Abby's placing her baby today.

[TJ Raphael]

Placement ceremonies are common at the godparent home. Now that the baby is 11 days old and the paperwork has been signed, the window for revocation has closed. To mark the occasion, the birth parents place the child in their new parents arms. There are prayers and pictures and cake. But today's ceremony feels different and you.

[Abby]

Could feel it in the air. It was definitely tense.

[TJ Raphael]

Because today's ceremony is for Abby.

[Abby]

It was understood that she wanted to parent. I mean, I was young and an intern and I knew she wanted to have her baby and, you know, and mother him.

[TJ Raphael]

Abby's dressed up for the event. She's in a crisp new pair of white capris. Her hair's curled, she's in a purple shirt that plays up the blue of her eyes. But when Brittany looks at Abby more closely, she just looked deflated, you know.

[Abby]

And I don't remember much conversation with her because it was almost like, what.

[TJ Raphael]

Do you, like, what do you say? The dining room is filling up now. There are a bunch of folding chairs set up and the room is divided by a makeshift aisle. There's a banquet table with food off to the side. The adoptive couple arrives with their extended family. The mom's blonde bob is perfectly set. The dad has on a button down shirt. Abby's escorted to the living room in the back of the house. Now everyone's waiting on the day's other guest of honor to turn up.

[Nathan]

So I almost didn't want to come on principle. I realized my presence is like condoning this to a certain extent. But I really want to see him again and I want to see Abby again.

[TJ Raphael]

Nathan shows up with his entire family in tower. His mom, dad, aunts, uncles and grandparents. This might be the only time they ever get to meet his son. A staffer leads Nathan to where Abby's waiting.

[Nathan]

I didn't realize I was going to get a minute alone with her.

[Abby]

And it was just me. And then Nathan was allowed to come in. And it was very strange to me that in this final moment, you're allowing us to be together and alone because no one was worried to let us be alone together.

[TJ Raphael]

Nothing they can say to each other matters now. They've both signed the adoption papers and the revocation window has closed. The door opens again and the godparent home foster mother brings in their son Jay. Abby and Nathan gather close.

[Abby]

Just kind of trembling, both of us were. And standing right on top of each other, just holding him and looking at him and passing him back and forth.

[TJ Raphael]

They feel trapped. Abby's eyes dart around the room and they land on a door.

[Abby]

This door to the left that had this big neon exit sign above it. And I knew where it led. It led to the driveway and she could go down the big street and run away.

[Nathan]

And you came up and like, put your arm around me. We held them together. I saw you looking at the door and I was looking at the door and I can't remember if I said any of the things you were saying. I felt like we were talking. We kind of had this thing where we didn't really have to talk to each other. We just like looking out the door and like I heard her say cops.

[Abby]

I didn't, but. But I was thinking was like we could hear each other's thoughts. Yeah. And then I think we had every reason to be certain the cops would be called if we ran out that time.

[Nathan]

They made sure that too. That like it was over at that point. We didn't have anything. We couldn't take it back. So it would have been stealing.

[TJ Raphael]

They have to stay on their best behavior if they want any chance of seeing their son again. The couple standing in the dining room will get the next year to decide whether they want to move forward with the open adoption.

[Abby]

I have to have a smile on him, look perfect, and be everything that makes them want to let us be in his life.

[TJ Raphael]

It's time for things to begin. The door on the right opens. Abby passes Jay to Nathan.

[Abby]

I let you carry him partly because I didn't want.

[Nathan]

I know. You actually asked me to.

[TJ Raphael]

I didn't want to hand him over. They step into the dining room and walk down the aisle. When they get to the end, Nathan places their son in the adoptive mother's arms.

[Abby]

I just watched them holding him and felt empty inside.

[TJ Raphael]

Someone leads a prayer. A staffer from the godparent home makes a speech. And then after the ceremony, the adoptive couple presents Abby with a gift.

[Abby]

They gave me a necklace. And the mother showed me that she had this very large diamond necklace on. And it was this very small miniature version of the same one.

[TJ Raphael]

They have something for Nathan too.

[Nathan]

The shitty fossil watch. You're giving me a $40 watch and I'm giving you my life?

[TJ Raphael]

Eventually Everyone starts clearing out, loading into cars and heading home. Abby watches her newborn son leave in the arms of his new parents. Nathan turns to Abby.

[Nathan]

I said, talk to you soon. And she said, why? And I just said sorry. And then, like, left. Almost made it out of the parking lot before I, like, jumped out of the car and like, went up in the woods. I couldn't make a sound because I was scared they were gonna hear me. And then I just, like, started screaming and it just broke. And then my voice kind of gave out and I stopped feeling anything at all. And then the very few moments that I feel anything ever since then, truthfully.

[TJ Raphael]

But this won't be the end of Abby and Nathan, not by a long shot.

[Abby]

And I just ran away. I ran as fast as I could out of my door and up my street in the dark at night. And I called Nathan and I just said, will you come get me? And he just raced across town and just, everything just is flooding out of both of us like crazy. The details of what really happened.

[TJ Raphael]

That's next time on Liberty Lost. Follow Liberty Lost on the Wondery app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Liberty Lost early and ad free by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey if you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to [e-mail] Tips from Wondery this is episode four of Six of Liberty Lost. Liberty Lost is hosted, reporting, recorded and written by me, TJ Raphael. Her senior producer is Natalie Shisha. Senior story editor is Phyllis Fletcher. Producer is Rachel Young. Associate producer is Maria Dennis. Additional production support from Emily Locke and Malachi Wade. Fact checking by Jacqueline Colletti. Original score by William Ryan Fritsch Sound design and Dolby Atmos mixing by Jamie Jamie Cooper. Audio assistance by Daniel William Gonzalez. Sound supervisor is Marcelina Villalpando. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync. Managing producer is Heather Baloga. Senior managing producer is Lata Pandya. Development producer is Olivia Weber. Supervising development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Executive producers are n' Jeri Eaton, George Lavender Marshall, Louie and Jen Sargent for wondery. In 2011, a group of high school cheerleaders began exhibiting a bizarre mix of neurological symptoms. Ticks, twitches and strange outbursts. Was it mold in the school buildings? A contaminated water source? But what if the cause of the contagion wasn't coming from their physical environment at all in Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios newest podcast, Hysterical host Dan Taburski dives into one of the most shocking outbreaks in American history, a medical mystery that had ripple effects well beyond the tight knit community where it began. Believed by some to be the most severe case of mass hysteria since the Salem Witch Trials, Hysterical is a podcast about the desire to be believed and what happens when the world tells you it's all in your head. Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus.