I Wish I May | 3

Summary

Liberty Lost: Episode "I Wish I May | 3" Summary

Release Date: June 26, 2025

Host: T. J. Raphael

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Introduction

In the third episode of Liberty Lost, titled "I Wish I May," host T. J. Raphael delves deeper into the harrowing experiences of young women confined within the Liberty Godparent Home. This episode primarily focuses on the intertwining lives of Abby and Nathan, their relentless struggle against the oppressive system, and the broader implications of the resurgence of maternity homes in post-Roe America.

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Abby and Nathan’s Struggle for Connection

The episode opens with Nathan's desperate journey to reconnect with his pregnant girlfriend, Abby, who has been secluded at the Liberty Godparent Home.

• Abby’s Early Pregnancy:

  • [00:06] Abby: "Abby was very late into her pregnancy before I even found out that she was in Virginia."

• Nathan’s Determination:

  • [00:12] Nathan: Drives over 200 miles to Lynchburg, haunted by a phone call urging him to sign adoption papers.

• Attempts to Communicate:

  • [00:39-02:14] Abby expresses her resistance: "This is not what Abby wants. Like, this is not what I want."
  • Nathan persistently attempts to reach Abby, even resorting to standing outside the facility in hopes of a breakthrough.

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Life Inside the Liberty Godparent Home

The home presents a facade of care but reveals an underlying agenda to enforce adoptions.

• Initial Impressions:

  • [00:56] Nathan: Describes the home as a clean two-story brick building, masking the bleak reality inside.
  • [01:15] Abby: "They showed me their super dated and horrific looking lounge area."

• Restricted Access:

  • [01:22-02:02] Staff conceals the pregnant girls, providing Nathan with misleading tours and excuses to prevent him from seeing Abby.

• Forced Worship and Humiliation:

  • [04:21-08:47] Pregnant girls are paraded in mega-church services hosted by the legacy of Jerry Falwell, aiming to shame and pressure them into adoption.
    • [07:03] Jerry Falwell: "A child is worth it."
    • [08:47] Abby’s Reflection: "We were told a lot that adoption was a beautiful gift."

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Stories of Other Mothers: Sarah, Toni, and Zoe

The episode introduces other young women navigating the oppressive environment of the home.

• Sarah P.’s Journey:

  • [09:10-11:05] Enters the home under tragic circumstances, seeking anonymity and support.
  • [12:09] Sarah P.: Praises her counselor, Debbie M., for genuine care.

• Toni’s Resistance:

  • [12:27-38:35] Firmly decides to keep her baby, facing relentless pressure from staff and her mother.
    • [13:19] Toni: Describes being constantly pushed towards adoption.
    • [37:39] Toni’s Grandma Rosie: Offers unwavering support, contrasting her mother’s stance.

• Zoe’s Dilemma:

  • [33:01-44:32] Struggles with the lack of suitable adoptive families and the systemic biases within the adoption agency.
    • [36:17] Zoe: Criticizes the dehumanizing process of selecting adoptive parents from scrapbooks.
    • [35:08] Highlights racial biases in adoptive placements.

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Nathan’s Plan to Support Abby

Realizing that Abby needs more substantial support, Nathan devises a plan to prove his capability to care for Abby and their child.

• Proactive Measures:

  • [15:54-17:32] Nathan secures a raise, finds an apartment, buys baby supplies, and prepares financially to support Abby.
    • [16:38] Nathan: "I bought the car and didn't even title it because I didn't know if I needed to property it in her name or mine."

• Confrontation with Debbie M.:

  • [16:52-19:55] Nathan presents his readiness to Abby’s counselor, hoping to change the administration’s stance on Abby’s status.

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The Adoption Process and Psychological Manipulation

The home employs psychological tactics to coerce the girls into relinquishing their parental rights.

• Adoption Agency Protocols:

  • [34:04-35:08] Detailed depiction of adoption scrapbooks emphasizing Christian values, often ignoring racial diversity.
    • [35:08] Zoe: Highlights the racial limitations in adoptive families.

• Emotional Manipulation:

  • [19:36-24:07] Debbie M. uses fear-based narratives to persuade Abby and Nathan to consent to adoption.
    • [19:55] Debbie M.: "Statistically, this is the percentage of chance that you are going to be in jail."

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Catalyst for Change: Carrie’s Influence

A beacon of hope emerges when Carrie, an empathetic adoptive mother, offers a different perspective on the adoption process.

• Carrie’s Approach:

  • [27:09-28:29] Advocates for open adoption, emphasizing the best interests of the child and birth mother’s autonomy.
    • [27:26] Carrie: "They were not forcing any person to place or to parent, but with support and education."

• Abby’s Connection:

  • [28:17-30:22] Abby and Nathan find solace in Carrie’s genuine support, rekindling their hope to keep their child.

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Climactic Meeting and Heartbreaking Decisions

The episode builds to a poignant meeting where Abby is pressured into finalizing the adoption despite her resolve to keep her baby.

• The Critical Meeting:

  • [21:25-23:26] Abby meets with Nathan and his parents, who present an unsolicited offer to help her keep the baby, complicating her emotional state.
    • [22:34] Abby feels the weight of being forced into a choice reminiscent of a marriage proposal: "It's just like a marriage proposal."

• Final Relinquishment:

  • [25:10-25:54] Pressured by her parents and the home, Abby signs the adoption papers, relinquishing her rights without truly feeling empowered.
    • [25:54] Abby: "I stayed up all night practicing his signature so I wouldn't look like a kid."

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Conclusion and Cliffhanger

As Abby faces the impending birth and the reality of the adoption process, the episode concludes with an air of uncertainty and impending separation.

• Emotional Fallout:

  • [32:43-33:01] Abby confronts her parents about her divine calling to keep the baby, only to face rejection and coercion.
    • [33:01] Nathan: "Now there was only one choice. Picking a new family for her son."

• Ongoing Isolation:

  • [43:23-44:29] The final moments highlight the loneliness and fear engulfing the remaining girls as they await their fate.
    • [44:13] Zoe: "Once you go on the other side, you don't know what happens on the other side."

The episode sets the stage for further exploration of Abby’s journey and the systemic forces at play within the Liberty Godparent Home.

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Notable Quotes

• Abby on Resistance:

  • [00:39] "This is not what Abby wants. Like, this is not what I want."

• Jerry Falwell’s Advocacy:

  • [07:03] "A child is worth it."

• Carrie’s Philosophical View:

  • [27:35] "We view the baby that the Lord brings into our family as ours. The birth parents and the adoptive parents."

• Abby’s Desperation:

  • [24:29] "I was waiting for what, when and where the Hail Mary was going to occur."

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Themes and Insights

• Religious Coercion: The intertwining of faith and forced adoption practices to control and redirect the lives of pregnant teenagers.

• Autonomy vs. Manipulation: The struggle of young women like Abby, Toni, and Zoe to assert their rights against a backdrop of psychological manipulation and societal pressures.

• Systemic Bias: Highlighting racial disparities within adoption agencies and the preferential treatment of certain demographics.

• Hope Amidst Despair: The introduction of compassionate figures like Carrie underscores the persistent hope for better support systems and genuine empathy.

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Looking Ahead

The episode concludes with unresolved tensions and the looming uncertainty of what lies ahead for Abby and her peers. The next installment promises to unravel the consequences of the forced adoption process and the resilience of those fighting against it.

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Note: This summary omits advertisements, introductory remarks, and production credits to focus solely on the episode's core content and narratives.

Transcript

[Abby]

Abby was very late into her pregnancy before I even found out that she was in Virginia.

[Nathan]

Nathan presses on the gas. It's a little over 200 miles from Charlotte to Lynchburg and he's just crossed the Virginia border. In his head. He keeps replaying the phone call he got earlier that day. Someone from the godparent home told him he needed to sign papers so Abby could move forward with an adoption. Nothing about that sounded right.

[Abby]

Like, I don't, I don't think this is what Abby wants. Like, this is not what I want.

[Nathan]

He asked if he could talk to Abby in person and they're like, we're.

[Abby]

Like three hours away. I was like, I don't care, I'll jump in the car right now. And she was like, I don't even know if you can do that. No one ever does that.

[Nathan]

Nathan got on the road anyway. He finally arrives at the godparent home. He doesn't know what to expect. From the outside, it's a clean two story brick building with a row of white dormer windows. Inside, it's a different story.

[Abby]

So they took me through and showed me their super dated and horrific looking lounge area.

[Nathan]

The staff tells him they can't let him see Abby. They hide all the pregnant girls away out of sight while they take him through a tour of some of the common areas.

[Abby]

So they were like, the windows are locked, the doors like, don't worry, at least you know she's safe. If they leave, we'll call the authorities and they'll bring them back. I couldn't believe that she was sitting in there. It was horrible.

[Nathan]

In the weeks that follow, Nathan keeps driving back. But every time he comes, he gets a different explanation for why he can't see Abby.

[Abby]

Oh no, this time legally we can't. Or this time she doesn't want to talk to you.

[Nathan]

On some of his visits, Nathan stands in front of his car and stares up at the godparent home like he's John Cusack and say anything with at the boombox.

[Abby]

So I like was even to the point of like, I think if I could get her to literally just see me through a freaking window, this would change. It would have to. So like I would put on whatever clothes I thought she would like and like I would walk in the woods around it and stare down or like stand on top of my car and stare at it from different angles to see if she could see me for as long as I felt comfortable before they would be like, what are you still doing here?

[Nathan]

And I'm like, But if he was going to make contact with Abby, standing outside, looking in wasn't going to be enough. The godparent home wasn't in the business of reuniting teenage couples. They answered to a higher calling.

[Jerry Falwell]

We're doing it all backwards today. We're telling young, unmarried teenagers, do your own thing. Live like you want to live. We need for our little children to grow up in exemplary homes where they are raised up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

[Nathan]

From Wondery. I'm TJ Raphael, and this is Liberty Lost.

[Debbie M.]

Quiet now, my darling morning's drawing close I'll sing until the sun comes up.

[Nathan]

Then I'll have to go. This is episode three, I Wish I May. It's Sunday morning at Liberty God Parent Home, which only means one thing.

[Jerry Falwell]

Coming to you from the Thomas Road Baptist Church in historic Lynchburg, Virginia.

[Nathan]

It's time for mandatory worship services at Jerry Falwell's church. The pregnant girls from Liberty God Parrot home are loaded up into a big passenger van and are carted down the street to this massive megachurch. In the parking lot, Abby and the other unwed mothers waddle towards the entrance.

[Debbie M.]

I would always kind of just try to keep my body to myself in a way that made me feel like maybe people weren't noticing me. And, you know, I would wear sweaters, things that you could, like hold your stomach in a house.

[Nathan]

Mother ushers them inside. Jerry Falwell died in 2007, but his legacy lives on at Thomas Road Baptist Church. The main space is decked out like a concert venue. Big screen TVs and massive speakers ensure that congregants and any of the 6,000 seats won't miss a moment.

[Debbie M.]

The majesty and glory of your name.

[Nathan]

Abby tries to lose herself in the music. If she closes her eyes. It's almost like a normal day in church. But when the song is over, a speaker takes the pulpit and starts talking about the God godparent home, about all the good that Liberty is doing to save babies from abortion. Abby sits quietly. And then suddenly the speaker asks the girls from the home to stand up. The pregnant girls rise to their feet. Some cradle their bellies. A hush falls over the room while thousands of congregants turn to study them.

[Debbie M.]

I wasn't expecting it. It just made me feel so deeply uncomfortable.

[Nathan]

Back in the 90s, when Tony and Zoe were at the home, Falwell was still preaching. Pointing out the girls was one of his favorite moves. And then he'd ask them to come up all the way to the Front of the church.

[Toni]

Oh, we have our Liberty mothers here. Everybody pray for them.

[Zoe]

It was definitely humiliating and I wondered why. I understand why they want us to go to church, but why do they need to parade us all the way down to the front of the church? And I knew why. It was clear.

[Nathan]

After Falwell made sure everyone's eyes were on the girls, he asked for donations.

[Jerry Falwell]

Said Jerry, I'll be a godparent. Here's a $400 check made payable to Old Time Gospel Hour. You may have to take it out of savings. I don't know what you'll have to do, but I think a child is worth it.

[Nathan]

And if you were watching the show at home, you'd see all kinds of creative ways. Falwell used these pregnant teens to try and raise money.

[Jerry Falwell]

The costs to operate the godparent home are enormous. But there's an exciting way you can help. There is a toll free number on the screen. 1-800-Pro-Life. Call now to get this brand new Liberty godparent home. Save a baby Visa card, please. Only call if you are credit worthy.

[Nathan]

For the viewers at home, Falwell was selling the feeling of doing something good. But for the congregants in church, he was selling something more.

[Jerry Falwell]

Did you know that last year 5 million American families applied for an adoption? There were only 50,000 babies available for adoption.

[Nathan]

Falwell knew these children were in high demand. The baby scoop era had normalized adoption as a way Americans could grow their families. But in the decades since then, the supply of babies had dropped off. It was like he was telling his followers, see these pregnant girls? You could be first in line for their babies.

[Jerry Falwell]

And these girls, as soon as their babies are born, they'll be placing them for adoption with Christian families. I'm convinced that these little girls can be led to Christ and these little babies can grow up in Christian homes. We think it's the answer.

[Nathan]

No matter what decade a girl went through the home, Falwell's end goal came through loud and clear.

[Toni]

God has a plan for you to have a child so that somebody else can raise your child.

[Zoe]

What we've done is shameful and we aren't able to equipped to take care of our own children.

[Debbie M.]

We were told a lot that adoption was a beautiful gift.

[Nathan]

And it seemed like how each girl got treated by the home depended on how enthusiastically she got on board with the program. Sarah P. Enters the godparent home in 2008 around the same time as Abby. She has strawberry blonde hair, a bunch of freckles and deep blue eyes. She comes from the same kind of family as Abby's.

[Sarah P.]

The typical American Christian family that would be living in the south or in the Bible belt.

[Nathan]

On her first night at the godparent home, Sarah walks into the dining room and finds an open seat. Everyone's having spaghetti for dinner, but no one's really talking to. To her. The new girl.

[Sarah P.]

I mean, I. I was scared and I was anxious.

[Nathan]

Sarah wants to break the ice.

[Sarah P.]

So I slurped my spaghetti, and all the girls started laughing. And so I just kept going and taking it farther and farther. And finally one of the girls was like, do you know why we're laughing? And I was like, yeah, because I'm slurping my spaghetti.

[Nathan]

Nobody scolds her or tells her to behave. Maybe because the staff knows she wants to place her baby.

[Sarah P.]

I figured that was the only option that would give my son a good life.

[Nathan]

And they also know how she's gotten pregnant.

[Sarah P.]

I think that that made it look different to them. It wasn't like it was a boyfriend that, you know, we were choosing sin or whatever.

[Nathan]

The summer before Sarah started college, she visited her cousin out of state.

[Sarah P.]

I ended up being raped at a party while I was passed out, and that's actually how I ended up pregnant.

[Nathan]

Sarah P. Has asked us not to use her full last name because her son is still a minor and doesn't know how she got pregnant. Together with her mother, Sarah decided she should go to a maternity home while she waited to give birth.

[Sarah P.]

I would be with other kids my age, kids who I could relate to, and I wouldn't be walking around town pregnant with everybody talking about me behind my back.

[Nathan]

Her mother chose the Liberty godparent home. Sarah wasn't crazy about all its rules, but. But.

[Sarah P.]

And I figured, full scholarship, suck it up, go to Liberty.

[Nathan]

And once she's at the home, Sarah doesn't think it's so bad.

[Sarah P.]

I just kind of went through the schedule and did what I needed to do.

[Nathan]

Sarah and Abby get assigned to the same counselor. Debbie M. For Sarah, the sessions go smoothly. Debbie helps her through every step of the adoption.

[Sarah P.]

She really. She really did care about those of us that were on her caseload and put a lot of herself into us and loving us and caring about us.

[Toni]

So it was very much a whole different treatment of if you're keeping your baby.

[Nathan]

When Toni entered the home, she was adamant from day one that she wanted to parent. Once word spread that she wanted to keep her baby, the staff didn't give her a moment's Peace. There was always this one woman just waiting for her.

[Toni]

She was skinny, blonde, short hair. She would always sit sideways in the chair in the little lobby part. And she did not ever let up on me. The whole time we were together, she would always tell me about how great adoption is, that if I really loved my baby, I would be placing her for adoption. Every single day, I would hear from her about it. It was like they just had her there to, like, follow me around to tell me this all the time.

[Nathan]

When that didn't seem to change Toni's mind, the home tried something else.

[Toni]

It was very well known if you were keeping your baby that you were put into classes to heavily influence you not to keep your baby.

[Nathan]

The home called them parenting classes. But to Tony, it was a stretch.

[Toni]

Like, they didn't teach you any parenting skills. It was just, they told you that it was going to be horrible to be a parent. And then, like a Bible class. I didn't learn anything from it. I just stopped talking about any of it to any of them. I just felt like there wasn't any safe people to talk to.

[Nathan]

There was another girl at the home with Toni and Zoe who wanted to parent and refused to stop talking about it.

[Zoe]

And she would say things like, I'm not. I'm not placing my baby. She definitely talked about it, and you aren't supposed to.

[Nathan]

Everyone knew the staff labeled her as a troublemaker.

[Zoe]

I don't think she was actually a troublemaker, but she definitely made trouble for everyone there because she wasn't going along with the program.

[Nathan]

And then one day, this girl just wasn't there anymore. Nobody knew for sure what had happened or why she'd left. But somehow everyone knew not to ask.

[Zoe]

It was very much. We don't talk about what happens on the outside. And once a girl's gone, she's gone as if she never existed. We don't talk about her.

[Nathan]

Every day that Abby's in the home, she feels more trapped and alone.

[Debbie M.]

I knew that I was being manipulated. It was just eerie and sinking in and scary.

[Nathan]

She has no idea that while the walls are closing in on her, Nathan is desperately plotting her escape.

[Abby]

I would go home and, like, literally daydream about how we could break her out and, like, where we could run away, that there wouldn't be extradition and how much money I would need and where it would be the best place to cross.

[Nathan]

And pretty soon, Nathan's going to find a way to finally reach Abby.

[Abby]

I had to change my complete strategy. The fuse is short, but there's still time.

[Nathan]

Abby has been at the home for about five months now. Back in Charlotte, Nathan understands that his prison break idea would never really work. So he comes up with another more practical plan. He's going to prove that he can support Abby and their baby. Then her parents and the staff at the godparent home will have to take him seriously. So Nathan looks for an apartment. He lands a raise at work. He gets baby supplies and a crib. He lines up childcare and buys a car for Abby.

[Abby]

I bought the car and didn't even title it because I didn't know if I needed a property it in her name or mine.

[Nathan]

He gets a face to face meeting with Abby's counselor, Debbie M. He takes a seat across the desk from her where Abby usually sits and he lays out everything he's been doing for Abby and their son.

[Abby]

I was like, look, I don't know if Abby wants to be with me or not, but like I'm going to get a place that either I can stay at or she can stay at or we can stay at. I was like, I'll move to a different state for the chance to be able to like support her. My parents were like, we'll build partition walls downstairs or put on an addition onto the house so she can have her own apartment. We'll pay for everything.

[Nathan]

But Nathan's told that it would just be logistically too hard to have Abby leave the program early.

[Abby]

Like we can't even take her out at this point because like all the medical bills and my dad's like, we're poor as crap. But is this his family? Like who cares? I'll sell a truck. Like we'll will do anything.

[Nathan]

Actually, Abby was on Medicaid. The home helped sign her up. Their handbook clearly states that they're not responsible for any of the girls health care costs. But Nathan's not told that. And in Debbie M's separate meetings with Nathan and Abby, there's a lot of other pieces of information she leaves out. She tells Abby that she's been talking with Nathan, but she doesn't mention that he's been asking to talk to Abby.

[Debbie M.]

So in my head I'm thinking, oh, so he just came up here to chat. He got time with my counselor and he got his information about his, his baby, but he didn't even need to talk to me, you know, and my heart and my body felt like he abandoned me.

[Nathan]

Abby's not hoping for any grand romantic gesture. Before she got to the godparent home, she felt like Nathan wasn't listening to all her fears about her family. And now she's the one who's locked away and it seems like he's just disappeared, but she still wants and needs his support.

[Debbie M.]

I wanted to hear him say, I am going to take care of you and provide and you have a place to come and we don't have to be in a romantic dating relationship.

[Nathan]

Nathan has been saying that to Debbie.

[Abby]

M. I had told Debbie 150 times that I respected her autonomy. Whatever she wanted doesn't matter if she's with me or not.

[Nathan]

None of those messages get through. Debbie M. Doesn't tell Abby that Nathan's trying to come up with ways for them to keep their son or that his help wouldn't come with any strings attached. And instead of telling Nathan that Abby wants to talk, Debbie M. Gives him the hard sell. She tells him that keeping the baby will probably ruin his life.

[Abby]

Like, statistically, this is the percentage of chance that you are going to be in jail. At some point you are going to struggle with some sort of of addiction. You'll be forced to work a minimum wage job so you won't be able to become anything.

[Nathan]

But she tells Nathan, if you agree to the adoption, you'll get to keep living your life. You're a young man. You can go to college.

[Abby]

And she adds, you know, the girls get a scholarship. You might even be able to get a scholarship.

[Nathan]

I wanted to ask Debbie M. About this, but she's not able to comment for health reasons. But Nathan doesn't cave. The godparent home knows they can't do anything without his signature. For an adoption to move forward, both parties need to relinquish their parental rights. If the father refuses, he could wind up with the child and the agency attached to the godparent home would be out tens of thousands of dollars in adoption fees. So the staff decides on a different approach. Maybe they can give him what he wants and get exactly what they need at the same. The living room in the godparent home is usually empty during the day, but this afternoon it's packed for a very special meeting. Abby's brought in last. When she steps inside, she sees counselors, adoption caseworkers, house mothers.

[Debbie M.]

It was so strange how many staff members were present for that meeting.

[Nathan]

And then she lays eyes on Nathan. He's sitting with his parents.

[Debbie M.]

I had a million things I wanted to say to him. A million questions. I'm feeling anger that you live out there in the world, not in a prison, and here you are just showing up.

[Nathan]

She makes sure not to sit too close to him. Nobody's told her what this meeting's all about or why Nathan's dad and mom drove three hours to be here.

[Debbie M.]

They had 10 children. They were incredibly busy when I would be in their presence. Like they were just, you know, up to their eyeballs with stuff to do. It wasn't like I'd gotten to know them.

[Nathan]

So she's surprised when Nathan's parents are the first in the room to speak up. They tell Abby they have a solution for her. She can come live with them. They'll set up a room in their basement. She and Nathan can raise their child together. Abby freezes up. It sounds a lot like a marriage proposal.

[Debbie M.]

Like they're saying you can escape into a marriage essentially with Nate, or into a situation of leaving your family and becoming a part of our family.

[Nathan]

If this were a private conversation, maybe Abby could have asked them questions and tried to understand what their offer meant. Instead, everyone on staff is watching her, waiting for her response.

[Debbie M.]

I felt a sense strongly that my parents and the staff were on a team together. And so I felt very much as if my parents eyes were in the room as well.

[Nathan]

And Abby knows her parents would cut her off permanently if she says yes. She doesn't trust the staff to help her. The only thing she's heard from them over the last five months is that she's a sinner and needs to get back on God's path.

[Debbie M.]

All the eyes of all the staff members were always just looking at me and treating me and talking to me like I needed to redeem my body that had been essentially violated by the. The things that I had done. Just. I felt it so viscerally. They understood what they were doing with the brainwashing and the isolation, making me feel so voiceless and so I didn't know how to rebel. It didn't even feel like an option in my brain and my body to, quote, choose Nathan.

[Nathan]

Abby doesn't feel like she can choose, choose anything.

[Debbie M.]

He had no idea what isolation and living in that level of abuse had done to me.

[Nathan]

Nathan's still waiting for Abby's answer with everything he's told her counselor about the car, the job, about his help coming with no strings attached. He came into this meeting expecting Abby to say yes. But Abby barely looks up. She doesn't move. Nathan can't tell if she's even listening.

[Abby]

That really shattered me because I was like, she's not there anymore.

[Nathan]

Before Abby can say yes or no, the staff announces that the meeting is over. After that Nathan's not sure what to think. He still has no idea what's going through Abby's head. And with her parents statutory rape threat hanging over him, he knows he can't stop the adoption without Abby's backing.

[Abby]

So the scenarios that were presented to me were still if I don't sign, they are going to file the statutory charge. They even told me they have two years to decide.

[Nathan]

Nathan's done everything he can to give her options, but he knows Abby has to make the final call. So a few weeks after that meeting, he rings up her counselor.

[Abby]

And I was like, debbie, I'm going to sign and I need you to make sure. She knows the reason I'm doing this is because I want her to know it's her call. She's the mom. I respect her. I don't think she wants this. She has options. And then I stayed up all night practicing his signature so I wouldn't look like a kid.

[Nathan]

The godparent home got it done. Nathan signs away his parental rights. In theory, it gives Abby all the power. But the reality is, Abby feels completely powerless. And now she's the only one who can stop this. As the days and weeks continue to blur together, Abby knows she's running out of time. She's moving into her third trimester. The home makes sure that adoption's everywhere. She looks hopeful. Moms are constantly dropping by to hang out with the girls, chat, play games, or invite them over to their homes for dinner.

[Debbie M.]

It was just so weird because it's like, literally, you're here just to try to, like. We all know, like, all of you women want our babies. And I know you're being nice to me, maybe because you're a nice person and I'm a nice person, but that's not why you're here.

[Nathan]

There is this one hopeful adoptive mom, though, that doesn't give Abby an icky feeling. Her name is Carrie.

[Debbie M.]

She was just a younger woman, and she had a short, little brown bob.

[Nathan]

Carrie drops by the home to talk to the girls pretty often. She and her husband had been trying to start a family, but found out they couldn't have children.

[Carrie]

And there was sort of just this instantaneous of, okay, if we want to become parents, what does the next step look like? And I suggested adoption.

[Nathan]

Carrie was already familiar with the godparent home. She works on campus, and back when she was a student at Liberty, she volunteered there for a few days. And Carrie likes the way that the adoption agency connected to the home Family Life Services talks about supporting birth moms.

[Carrie]

I Think what I really truly loved and appreciated and identified with was the fact that they were not forcing any person to place or to parent, but with support, support and education, they would help provide whatever the person needed for whatever decision was right for her.

[Nathan]

And she wanted to make sure the adoption centered the baby.

[Carrie]

What is the best situation for the child involved and does it allow the child to understand where they came from? So in terms of open adoption, it was definitely something that I was open to.

[Nathan]

An open adoption would mean that a birth mother like Abby might be able to spend time with their child while they're growing up, which means a lot to Abby. So when Carrie invites her and a few other girls to her house, Abby says yes.

[Debbie M.]

And I think all of us had a little bit of a fascination with the fact that her life was basically exactly what probably all of us were wishing ours was at the moment. Newly married, had a cute little house, just completely ready for a baby.

[Nathan]

Abby pulls up a seat to the kitchen table and she starts to think, if I have to do this, if I'm going to be forced to do this adoption, maybe I could pick this family. She tries to imagine herself in a.

[Debbie M.]

Year, this is what the dinner would look like if we all sat down together. And maybe I'm going to be going to Liberty down the street for college and maybe I'll come over and visit with them.

[Nathan]

Abby asks her counselor if she can tell Nathan about Carrie and Debbie. M agrees to let her call him as long as she's also on the line. They dial him up and Abby tells him about Carrie and how she's willing to do an open adoption.

[Debbie M.]

We might get to have a relationship with them. That was my only hope. And I remember Nathan said to me, I don't want to give him up, but in the worst case scenario that we have to people who will let us be in his life sound like the best thing we can hope for.

[Abby]

I think we agreed on, let's just see if this plays out. And if it's the Lord's will that it's this family, then it is. But if they get taken for whatever reason, then this is going to be the sign that we're supposed to keep him.

[Debbie M.]

I really liked that he said that. We agree about my secret hope.

[Nathan]

For the first time in a while, they both feel like the Lord might guide them through this.

[Debbie M.]

I would go to bed every single night praying that if it's not meant to be, that it'll fall through. I pray that over and over and over again.

[Nathan]

And within the week Abby hears the update. She's been praying for another girl who's further along than Abby, has picked Carrie and her husband to adopt her baby.

[Carrie]

This was an answer to so many prayers.

[Nathan]

The last girl Kerry had matched with had backed out of the adoption.

[Carrie]

When she had her baby in the hospital, she decided to parent him.

[Nathan]

After a birth mom signs the relinquishment papers, the state gives them 10 days to change their minds and take back their parental rights, which means adoptive parents really never know what's going to happen. So when this other girl, who is further along than Abby, picks Carrie and her husband, they don't waste any time.

[Carrie]

We made the decision moving forward of accepting the baby that was placed in front of us and the birth mom that had chosen us.

[Nathan]

Abby's not disappointed at losing Carrie. In fact, she takes it as the sign she's been waiting for, that she's meant to keep the baby.

[Debbie M.]

My big hope came true. And I remember being flooded with such an intense. So many feelings, fear. But more than that, hope and excitement. Because I had prayed that hard and I had that much proof and that much evidence to tell my parents. I tried so hard to do the thing that you want me to do.

[Nathan]

She asked her counselor to call Nathan and tell him the news.

[Abby]

And she said, abby wanted me to tell you that that couple got picked. I went over the moon.

[Nathan]

Abby calls her parents next. She finally feels like she can stand up and speak her mind. With the Lord guiding her, she tells her folks about her prayers and how this is all a sign from God that she's supposed to keep her baby.

[Debbie M.]

My dad just irritatedly got off the phone, wouldn't talk to me.

[Nathan]

And her mom says, that's not God's.

[Debbie M.]

Plan for your life. Because God would make that clear to us if that were true. And I was just like, why aren't you hearing what I've just expressed to you, what I've just told you? I feel so sure that God showed this to me. And I prayed just like you and dad have always taught me to. And this is what God has put on my heart.

[Nathan]

It had been her secret hope she found the words to say it to her parents out loud. But it didn't make a difference. Her parents were calling the shots. And now there was only one choice. Picking a new family for her son. And it might just be one more choice Abby doesn't get to make. In 1991, Zoe's due date was growing closer. It's eight weeks away, then seven, then six. And around this time, the Godparent home would have girls meet with their caseworkers at the adoption agency for a very special appointment.

[Zoe]

I sat across her desk, and she had a book with pictures of the parents, and she invited me to look through them.

[Nathan]

Almost every adoption agency in America has a version of these books. They contain profiles of hopeful couples who are waiting for a baby. Next to glossy photos of nice family vacations and wedding celebrations. There are little blurbs about themselves and about what great parents they would be. In the early 90s, open adoptions were pretty uncommon, so Zoe would never learn the full names of the couple she would choose to raise her daughter or where they lived. But the books do include details about a couple's faith. Couples have to answer questions like, how.

[Abby]

Is the holy spirit active in your life? Describe your salvation experience? How do you intend to plan for your child's Christian development?

[Nathan]

Zoe opened up the first scrapbook, and I look through.

[Zoe]

They were looking to place my baby with black parents, and there weren't a lot. I believe there were just less than a handful.

[Nathan]

The majority of prospective adoptive parents who worked with the godparent homes agency were white, and they still are today. And many of these customers want their adopted babies to be white, too, a situation that Falwell himself was well aware of.

[Jerry Falwell]

We have a problem. We have an adoption agency. We have 100 couples waiting for every baby we have to adopt. That is, every white baby we have to adopt. We have a problem placing biracial babies.

[Nathan]

Zoe's baby wouldn't biracial, but she would be black, so she only had a few families to look at. Nevertheless, sitting in the adoption agency, Zoe had a choice to make. She flipped through the pages. A thought popped into her head as she looked.

[Zoe]

My mother would never pick a babysitter for me by looking at some pictures of someone in a book and a paragraph. And here I am choosing parents for my children by looking at some pictures in a paragraph.

[Nathan]

Around the same time, Tony's caseworker also made her look through the books. Tony's white, so she had more than two dozen couples to pick from. But she didn't want to choose anyone. She didn't want to place her child for adoption. Tony's caseworker acted like that wasn't an option.

[Toni]

Well, maybe you just haven't found the right one yet, is what I would get.

[Nathan]

When she called home to talk to her mom, she'd get the same message.

[Toni]

She kept pushing. You know, you need to look at families. You need to pick family. You need to place your baby for adoption. And I was telling her I wanted to keep her.

[Nathan]

But Toni did have one person in her corner, her grandma Rosie.

[Toni]

My grandma was adopted, so she felt really strongly about me not placing this baby for adoption. She was very much against it. She never had a bad word about her childhood, but she just would say, that's not the route I want you to go.

[Nathan]

On their calls, her grandma would say the words Toni wished her mom would say.

[Toni]

I will support you whatever you decide.

[Nathan]

It gave Toni the courage to stand firm. And it was becoming clear if between Toni and her mom, one of them needed to back down, it wasn't going to be Toni.

[Toni]

I was so broken down by so many other things in my life, but I didn't question one bit that I was going to bring her home with me.

[Nathan]

In the final weeks of her pregnancy, Toni called her mom up on the.

[Toni]

Phone, and then I was like, okay, I'm telling you I'm bringing her home, that this is what I'm doing. And she said, well, I've been thinking about it, and I decided that I'm ready for you to come home and that I'm okay with you having her. I was very relieved. After all this time, she actually really does support me now.

[Nathan]

After that. All the arguments the staff used to get Tony to place, who will support you? How can you do this alone? They just didn't hold water anymore. But that didn't mean the staff at the godparent home wasn't going to keep trying to change her mind. Seventeen years later, it's Abby's turn. At the adoption agency. The scrapbooks all look the same. The only thing that's changed is that by 2008, open adoptions are more common. Page after page. Abby doesn't see anyone who reminds her of herself.

[Debbie M.]

I just be like, these people seem like absolute strangers.

[Nathan]

She calls her mom and tells her she isn't connecting to any of these families.

[Debbie M.]

And she just goes, I just feel so confident that there is a family within the in those books that you've overlooked.

[Nathan]

The next day, Abby's mom comes up to the home to take a look for herself. They sit down in front of the tall stack of books. Her mom cracks one open and starts to tell Abby what she thinks.

[Debbie M.]

Well, look at this cute picture kind of thing. Huge smile on her face, just very expressive, very vocal, getting really excited about each family and pointing out details about their lives and where they live. The agency staff is watching and they're seeing me just like a piece of lead sitting there. And they just keep bringing out New books for my mom.

[Nathan]

And eventually her mom thinks she's found the one.

[Debbie M.]

I normally keep it in a bin with other things that are hard to look at, tucked away somewhere.

[Nathan]

Abby still has a scrapbook that her mom got the most excited about.

[Debbie M.]

That's just like a red, you know, thick album. You open it up and front page is a display of their union. Them hugging each other, the husband and wife.

[Nathan]

On the next two pages are letters from the couple. Dear birth mother, I have been praying for you. I want you to know that I greatly admire you for choosing life for your baby. You are a very courageous young woman and I know that God will bless you for your decision.

[Debbie M.]

The next picture is of their home. The next page. And I remember feeling like that doesn't look anything like me. And the way they decorate is nothing like me. And it looks a lot like my mom. And my mom was just beaming over each of these pictures. I felt so invisible. Why are you seeing yourself in this woman, a stranger, but you're not seeing me right in front of you, Your daughter.

[Nathan]

A few days later, the agency sets up a meeting with her mom's favorite couple. Nathan makes the drive up, too. They gather in the adoption agency to meet the people who might raise their son. The husband is soft spoken and lets his wife do the talking. She's blonde, petite and chatty. They tell Abby and Nathan that they already have one son. They adopted him through the godparent home, too.

[Debbie M.]

They believed themselves called to adopt. They were looking for the next baby that God had in store for them.

[Nathan]

They tell Debbie, Nathan and Abby, if you choose us, we'll all be like one happy family. We'll all love the baby together. It's something they had written in their scrapbook, too. We view the baby that the Lord brings into our family as ours. The birth parents and the adoptive parents. And we want what's best for everyone involved. We are open to whatever level of communication the birth mother desires to make her point. The hopeful adoptive mother stands up during.

[Abby]

The meeting, like opening her arms all the way up like this and saying, see this? This is how much love we have for all of you. This is going to be a big family.

[Nathan]

By the end of the meeting, Abby's mom is all in on the couple. She's so pleased. She even changes her tone with Nathan.

[Abby]

She gives him a hug and said, I forgive you. I love you. You know how much I love you. But this is what the Lord wants to happen.

[Nathan]

Suddenly, it was like everything was fine. God had a plan.

[Debbie M.]

She was just like, they're the ones. I just know it in my heart, and I'm just so excited.

[Nathan]

Now all Abby can do is is wait. And these final weeks for all the girls are some of the loneliest. Their friends, the girls they've been on this journey with from the beginning, keep disappearing.

[Zoe]

There was no, like, oh, someone's in labor. Let's go say bye to everyone. It was literally like, you're in labor, you get whisked away and we never hear from them again.

[Debbie M.]

I was not allowed to see any of those friends after they'd given birth. They weren't allowed to bring their babies back to the home. We weren't allowed to meet them.

[Nathan]

It makes what's about to happen to them that much scarier.

[Zoe]

Once you go on the other side, you don't know what happens on the other side.

[Nathan]

But in a matter of days, they'll find out for themselves.

[Toni]

They were still standing there praying that I'd be redeemed and placed my baby.

[Debbie M.]

I was waiting for what, when and where the Hail Mary was going to occur. And for me, that room was that.

[Zoe]

I was all by myself and, you know, terrified.

[Toni]

I didn't go through all that. I didn't go through being there at that place to not bring her home.

[Nathan]

That's next time on Liberty Lost from Wondery. This is episode three of six of Liberty Lost. Liberty Lost is hosted, reported and written by me, TJ Raphael. Her senior producer is Natalie Shisha. Senior story editor is Phyllis Fletcher. Producer is Rachel Young. Associate producer is Maria Dennis. Additional production support from Emily Locke and Malachi Waid. Voice acting by Patrick Kershner and Jeanette Johnston. Fact checking by Jacqueline Colletti. Original score by William Ryan Fritsch. Sound design and Dolby Atmos. Mixing by Jamie Cooper. Audio assistance by Daniel William Gonzalez. Sound supervisor is Marcelina Villalpando. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync. Managing producer is Heather Baloga. Senior managing producer is Lata Pandya. Development producer is Olivia Weber. Supervising development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Executive producers are N' Idri Eaton, George Lavender, Marshall Louie and Jen Sargent for Wondery.