A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: Going Deep with Tinkered Thinking and Jameson Olsen ⚔️🥚🛡️🏰🐴

Summary

Liberty’s Highlights — “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: Going Deep with Tinkered Thinking and Jameson Olsen”

Date: April 27, 2026
Host: Liberty
Guests: Tinker Tinking Jamieson & Jameson Olsen
Theme: In-depth discussion and analysis of HBO’s “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” Season 1, adaptation of George R.R. Martin’s “The Hedge Knight”, exploring adaptation choices, character arcs, production choices, and broader storytelling themes.

---

OVERVIEW OF THE EPISODE

Liberty, Tinker Tinking Jamieson, and Jameson Olsen gather for a wide-ranging (and spoiler-filled!) exploration of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms season one — HBO’s adaptation of George R.R. Martin’s “The Hedge Knight.” The trio dig deep into the series’ production, its faithfulness and changes compared to the novella, character performances, storytelling structure, thematic resonance, and their hopes for future seasons.

---

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. High-Level Impressions & Production Choices

[01:36–09:16]

• All hosts were “charmed” by the series, finding it a breath of fresh air post-Game of Thrones fatigue — notably through writing, acting, music, and tactile production design.
• Initial skepticism (especially from Tinker) about “another IP spinoff” gave way to genuine engagement. The show invoked the “old feelings” of peak Game of Thrones for the panel.
• Appreciation for the runtime and pacing, especially “taking their time with Act 1,” giving weight and stakes to the story, and letting viewers bond with the protagonists before the drama begins.
• “[The show is] more meditative, slower, human… the opposite of Marvel-ification” (Tinker, [09:16]).

Notable Quotes:

• “I was totally charmed by this series… fired on all cylinders… the writing, the acting, the music, the tactile sets and locations.” — Liberty [01:36]
• “Low expectations are great.” — Host [02:42]
• “When that music started queuing in, I got those old feelings when Game of Thrones was still really good.” — Tinker [02:45]

---

2. Trailers, Marketing, and Spoilers

[03:29–07:10]

• Frustration with modern trailers that “show you the whole movie,” removing intrigue and mystery. Discussion of how marketing departments feel pressured to reveal big moments due to the glut of content and shorter attention spans.
• Desire for minimalist marketing: “Just a black screen with the title and date.”
• Discussion about reading the source material before watching adaptations, using “Project Hail Mary” as an example.
• The panel reflects on how lowered expectations (post-GoT and “trailer syndrome”) actually benefited their enjoyment of Knight.

Notable Quote:

• “Marketing departments have decided it’s most profitable to give away enough of the movie to make you decide, ‘This is what I want to watch.’” — Jameson [04:26]

---

3. Casting & Chemistry: Dunk and Egg

[07:10–08:07]

• Special praise for Peter Cleffey (Dunk) and Dexter Sol Ansell (Egg), especially the rare feat of finding a child actor who's genuinely engaging without being precocious.
• The chemistry between Dunk and Egg is described as “make or break; if it didn’t work, nothing else would."
• Concern (in jest) about filming more seasons quickly as the actor ages.

---

4. Narrative Scope and Thematic Focus

[09:38–13:48]

• The major success is in “narrowing the scope.” Unlike Game of Thrones' sprawling plots and the “promising of the world,” Knight focuses on a week at a jousting tournament, following a handful of characters. This allowed more emotional resonance and a self-contained story.
• Discussion of how most IPs bloat as they become more ambitious; hope that the success of S1 won’t “blow this thing up” via executive intervention.

Notable Quote:

• “To have a story that takes place over a week at one jousting tournament and isn’t trying to make us care about that many characters — it gives itself room to actually land.” — Jameson [09:38]
• “All the big themes… legacy, class, what makes a true knight… it’s all seen through one or two characters, at street level. And that makes you care more than if it was always about armies and kingdoms.” — Host [11:36]

---

5. Connections to the Larger GoT World & Fan Experience

• Social media “if-ication” brought attention to the story, especially via the viral GoT scene referencing Ser Duncan the Tall, which underscored the series’ ability to spark curiosity for old vs. new IP.

---

6. Episode-by-Episode Breakdown

Episode 1: The Hedge Knight

[14:24–19:45]

• Sets the tone—low-born protagonists, slow build, no action set pieces in the pilot, and a subversive tone (the “explosive diarrhea” subversion).
• Favorite moments include Dunk’s resourcefulness and the dynamic with Lionel Baratheon, a scene-stealing addition.
• “You have none. You have no chance. But it’s a great honor to test yourself against a worthy foe.” [14:24] — encapsulates the underdog spirit.

---

Episode 2: Hard Salt Beef

[19:45–24:32]

• Dunk struggles to prove himself; beautiful depiction of self-doubt and perseverance.
• First action (5v5 joust) is a high point; Dunk must sell his horse to buy armor—cementing how outmatched he is, yet he persists.
• Show excels at “showing, not telling” his lack of intelligence ("thick as a castle wall") but also more important virtues — moral clarity, courage, and humility.

---

Episode 3: The Squire

[24:41–29:58]

• Highlights the sports movie arc for the underdog before the main twist. Dunk refuses to throw a match for money, standing by honor despite having “absolutely nothing.”
• Show delivers a jaw-dropping twist: Egg is revealed as Aegon Targaryen (“I stood up in my living room, my jaw dropped…” — Host [26:43]).
• Effective foreshadowing: fortune teller’s prophecy gives it away to some, but for others, the surprise lands hard. Discussion of how subtle Egg’s hints are on first viewing.
• Villainy of Arian established quickly (“the more noble the animal, the crueler it seems when the villain kills it”).

---

Episode 4: Seven

[31:09–38:38]

• Dunk in prison, Egg’s identity revealed. Cinematic highlights: the use of visually poetic parallels, beautiful shots contrasting “a starry sky” and a prison ceiling.
• The subtlety of the script, from fathers calling out their sons to Lionel’s character as both comic relief and “sage” of the piece.
• Key themes reiterated: honor, the meaning of knighthood, being defined by one’s actions, not just titles.
• “In the name of the warrior, I charge you to be brave. In the name of the father, I charge you to be just. In the name of the mother, I charge you to protect the young and innocent.” — [38:30]

---

Episode 5: In the Name of the Mother

[39:26–50:51]

• The long-anticipated Trial of Seven. The episode is structured around Dunk’s flashback to his own Flea Bottom childhood, building empathy and underscoring the “get up” motif.
• The action is frantic and confusing, intentionally from Dunk’s POV, heightening immersion.
• Victory comes through “sheer grit, not skill”—and at a significant cost, as Baelor is (accidentally) killed by Maekar in the chaos.
• The flashback and the “get up” mantra are powerfully discussed as both narrative and entrepreneurial metaphors.

---

Episode 6: Denouement

[50:52–64:38]

• The aftermath and emotional fallout. Dunk is offered his dream—fealty, comfort, a place in a great house—but refuses, having become someone wiser, more disillusioned, and more clear-eyed about knighthood and “servitude.”
• The show’s rare, thoughtful choice: no cliffhanger or cheap hook, but a true denouement.
• Lionell’s role as both comic relief and emotional core is highlighted, his speech reframing Baelor’s sacrifice as less heroic than first assumed.
• Noteworthy anachronism: use of jazz music to open the finale, discussed as a curious, potentially “off” creative choice but not a deal-breaker.
• Panelists align in praising the show for delivering a “complete story” rather than baiting “itchy addiction.”

---

7. Favorite Episodes Debate

[60:50–64:38]

• Liberty favors Episode 3 (“peak enjoyment, the friendship and dynamic before darkness takes full hold”).
• Tinker picks Episode 6, appreciating its closure and refusal to bow to pressure for a cliffhanger.
• Jameson leans toward Episode 2, citing the blend of humor, earnestness, and exhilarating action.

---

8. Adaptation vs. Novella: Faithfulness, Changes, Preferences

[64:38–74:02]

• The show is commended for being both faithful and actually expanding/improving on the source (rare for an adaptation).
• Additions like fleshing out Lionel Baratheon, the tug of war, more life with Dunk & Egg, the prostitutes’ humor, etc., all deepen the narrative.
• The lean novella — “almost leaner than is believable,” making the show’s extra layers all the more vital.
• Great point raised: short stories and novellas, like “Arrival,” are prime for adaptation, offering screenwriters room to expand rather than being forced to cut.

Notable Quotes:

• “Short stories, novellas are way better adaptations than books — the filmmaker actually gets to add.” — Jameson [68:11]
• “A hedge knight is the truest kind of knight… we serve where we will, for men whose causes we believe in… we keep that vow best, I think.” — Jameson quoting Ser Arlan [70:39]

---

9. Themes: Virtue, Praxis, and Heroic Archetypes

[75:30–80:16]

• Dunk’s appeal lies in his simplicity and moral clarity, a contrast to the “complex/anti-hero era.” His “get up” ethos wins over talent, birth, or intellect.
• Praxis (“action as its own end”) is identified as the day’s word—Dunk’s choices are about doing right for its own sake.
• The value of stories about “heroes we could be” as opposed to untouchably perfect or ruthlessly ambiguous leads.

Notable Quote:

• “He is very much just focused on what is the right thing to do without factoring in what are the consequences of my choices here, and that’s something that’s pretty admirable.” — Jameson [79:06]

---

10. Future Hopes and Predictions for Season 2

[74:02–84:44]

• Uncertainty about whether to read the next novella before S2 airs — expectation that the show may improve on it.
• Discussion about whether a longer run-time or more expansion would improve or dilute the next season.
• Eager speculation: will the show develop Egg into an eventual antihero, paralleling Anakin or Dune’s Paul? Could Dunk/Obi-Wan’s simplicity serve as a rich counterpoint?
• Concerns that executive meddling could “blow this thing up” and ruin what made S1 so special.

---

MEMORABLE MOMENTS & QUOTES (with TIMESTAMPS)

• “Are there no true knights among you?” (Host [53:24]) — the show’s own “Braveheart moment”, reframed by laughter and flatulence, drives home the difference between the ideal and reality.
• On Lionel’s role: “He’s like the comedic relief and also the sage of the show, essentially in one character.” — Jameson [17:36]
• On the “get up” theme: “If the show has a clear sort of moralistic tone, I love what it’s picked: just get up. Just keep going. You don’t have to be the smartest, the most well-trained, have royal blood, or fancy armor. Just keep getting up.” — Tinker [47:18]
• On adaptation: “This adaptation was really well done. Everyone did their job — writers, directors, actors, cinematographers. They just made something really fun and entertaining.” — Jameson [68:32]
• On what makes Dunk compelling: “He is always going to do the right thing… the world he’s in is complex, and that’s where the drama comes from, but I know what he’s trying to do, and why.” — Jameson [77:01]
• On lionel’s depth: “I love you like a brother, or then I’ll hate you like a brother.” — Host [55:28]

---

FINAL REFLECTIONS & CLOSING

[84:44–end]

• All hosts are excited for Season 2, but value that S1 stands alone as a self-contained arc.
• Hopes are high writers can “braid together” noble and antiheroic arcs as Dunk and Egg mature (“it would be a really cool experience if the writers made me legitimately hate Egg by the end” — Tinker [82:01]).
• Takeaways: “Lesson of the day: get up. Word of the day: praxis.” [85:47]
• The episode closes with plugs for Tinker’s essays (Tinkerthinking.com), books, and Jameson’s “Becoming the Main Character” podcast.

---

QUICK REFERENCE: KEY SEGMENTS

| Segment / Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|---------------------| | Opening impressions, production themes | [01:36–09:16] | | Trailer/marketing gripes | [03:29–07:10] | | Dunk & Egg casting, chemistry | [07:10–08:07] | | Narrow narrative scope vs. IP bloat | [09:38–13:48] | | Episode-by-episode discussion | [14:24–64:38] | | Adaptation comparison with novella | [64:38–74:02] | | Themes: virtue, praxis, hero archetypes | [75:30–80:16] | | Season 2 hopes & storytelling advice | [74:02–84:44] | | Closing recommendations, sign-off | [85:55–end] |

---

CONCLUSION

This episode is a thorough, lively postmortem of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms S1, balancing fan enthusiasm with thoughtful critique—whether about the merits of minimalist storytelling, what makes a protagonist resonate, or the craft of adapting fiction for TV. Highly recommended for anyone who loves rich, character-driven fantasy, adaptation theory, or just good storytelling.

---

For more:

• TinkerThinking.com: Tinker’s essays and books
• Becoming the Main Character podcast: Jameson Olsen
• Liberty’s Highlights: Main site and blog

Transcript

[Host]

Tinker Tinking Jamieson, thank you for joining me on my Trial by Seven. We're four men short, but I'm sure we'll manage somehow. Are you ready for this? Are there no true podcasters among you?

[Jameson]

Let's do it. I'm excited.

[Host]

So today we'll discuss a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms season one. It's an HBO TV show. It's based on George R.R. martin's 1998 novella the Hedge Knight. It's set in the Game of thrones world about 90 years before the events of that series. And we will discuss everything. So don't listen beyond this point if you haven't seen the show or read the novellas. To give you an idea of what we're doing first, we'll start with overall impressions, high level production themes, whatever. Then we'll go deeper, episode by episode, favorite episodes, stuff like that. Then about the novella, because we've read it. What are the differences? Which version do we like better? Do we like the changes? Stuff like that. And then final words. Looking forward to season two. But first, of course, what we need is an intro song.

[Singer]

And a small lad walking down the road One's got a sword, the other's got a secret A knight with no lord, a boy with no hair A realm full of drama and we're pulling up a chair so sing of Sir Duncan, tall and true and little leg Esquire, tried and true now gather ye small folk Pour yourself an ale for Duncan and egg and three guys telling tale.

[Host]

So this is the spoiler side. I was totally charmed by this series. I thought it fired on all cylinders. I like the writing, the acting, the music, the cinematography. Like the very tactile sets and locations and costumes and everything like that. Are we all on the same page for this? Any dissension here?

[Jameson]

No, I agree. It felt like a breath of fresh air. Honestly, in many regards to me and like many people, my only complaint is that there weren't enough episodes or they weren't long enough. But then once I read the novella, I was like, ah, they kind of covered everything. So kudos to them to not like expand it too much beyond the novella.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I guess I was thinking about the Dune spinoff when I heard of this, which also takes place in the far past in the Dune universe, I believe. And I was so underwhelmed by that. That series, I think I watched like three or four episodes. I was like, this is. This is just trash compared to the movie. I can't stand it. So when I heard about this, I Was like, ugh. You know, it's like they're just doing another spinoff. They're just cashing in on old ip. Like it's probably woke in some kind of obnoxious.

[Host]

Like, Low Expectations are great.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

No, actually, because then I started watching. I was like, oh, this is fucking dope. And then of course, like, when that music started queuing in, I was like, I got those old feelings when Game of Thrones was like, still really good. And I was like, oh, oh, man, it's doing it. It's happening again.

[Host]

And then he's shitting his brains out.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, it cuts off in the most hilarious way.

[Host]

A good way to immediately tell you this is different. The only thing I knew about this show was I saw the trailer and I think I stopped like halfway through because I was like, oh, this is good enough. I'm going to watch it. So I don't want to be spoiled. But the trailer is cut in such a way that it looks almost like pure comedy, almost like a sitcom set in the Game of Thrones universe. So I'm glad that it wasn't just that. It's way more than that.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Can I just hate on trailers for a moment?

[Host]

Yes.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Trailers just ruin so many things lately. Because like, for example, what was that one about the architect?

[Host]

Oh, the Brutalist.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

It's like a three hour movie. It has an intermission in it and you see the whole thing in the trailer. I saw the trailer. I was like, I'm pretty sure I saw the whole movie. And then I started watching the movie. I think I got three quarters of the way through and then I had to go to bed and I just never turned it back on because it was like the trailer basically ruined that movie for me. And I've always dreamed of a movie where they just spend the money to put a black screen with the title and then the date and then that's all they do. And then they just release the movie. But they do that for like six months out.

[Jameson]

Like, that sounds like what Kanye would do to market a movie.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I mean, Kanye, well, Kanye just broke some records with regards to concerts. So, yeah, I'll take that as a compliment to the idea.

[Jameson]

I've thought a lot about the trailers, too. For me, the day the trailer died, I still remember it because I just remember thinking about fundamentally, trailers have changed was Ragnarok. Because when the trailer revealed that the big fight in the arena was against the Hulk, I just had this thought of that never would have been in a trailer 10 years ago. That would have been the big reveal that you would tell your friends, you gotta go see it so we can talk about it. I think back to something I had a marketing professor tell me back in college that basically, as a marketer, your only job is to get butts in seats. And so in a world where there's too much content to consume, unfortunately, apparently marketing departments have decided it's most profitable to like, give away enough of the movie to make you decide, this is what I want to watch. But it just sucks for those of us who want more of a mysterious and aesthetic experience, because we want it to be revealed in the movie.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I wonder how many people have the exact same gripes that we have and be like, stop showing us everything. Like, it's not a grocery store. It's supposed to be like. It's supposed to be like presents under the tree at Christmas. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen. So it creates excitement, you know?

[Host]

Yeah. I had a heuristic for trailers that used to work, but it doesn't anymore. It used to be that the more they show you in the trailer, the worse the movie is. Because they know it's gonna get bad reviews, bad word of mouth. So they have to put everything. They have to get like the first wave in, and after that it's gonna do bad. While if you almost see nothing in the trailer and you don't, you have no idea. They're very confident they have something really good. And that used to be the heuristic. But I think now it's like, films stay in theaters so few weeks and like, there's so much competition for people's attention that they just have to put everything every time.

[Jameson]

And it doesn't help that when someone tries to actually do that, it kind of can have blowback. Right. Right now, a movie literally called the Drama. People are upset because they're going into it thinking it's a rom com and finding out it's actually something very different. I haven't seen it yet, but I've looked into it. It's crazy, the difference. But the fact that people are upset with it, unfortunately, is probably only reinforcing the studios, like, oh, no, we gotta share exactly what the story's about in the trailer. Which is no fun.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Okay, now I wanna go see that movie because I respect that. I suppose the total flip side is Project Hail Mary, which I'm pretty sure all of us here have read. And I went to the movies cause I really wanted to see it. But reading the book Prior is kinda like the ultimate trailer you definitely know it's a bit of a different experience where you're like, all right, are they gonna fuck up the book? Obviously, this isn't about Project Hail Mary, but I really enjoyed the movie, but I was kind of on pins and needles the whole time being like, don't mess it up. Don't mess it up. Don't mess it up. I guess there's a bit of spectrum.

[Host]

This was probably the feeling for this too, right after Game of Thrones was so damaged by the ending. Actually, this was probably good for Knight of the Seven Kingdoms because it reset expectations so low for anything else in that universe. And one thing at the center of this was a make or break thing, is that the chemistry between Peter Cleffey and Dexter, Saul as Dunk and Egg. If that didn't work, nothing else would have worked. So I'm very, very impressed that they found a child actor that I had never heard of before. Actually really good and not annoying and still young enough. It's not like someone much older that's playing young. He still has the kid voice and everything. It's going to be interesting to see in future seasons how he's changing with, you know, his voice changing and all that. But I thought he did a great job.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, they're going to have to film it fast.

[Jameson]

From interviews I've seen with him, it's funny how it's just Dexter's. One of those were like, no, that's just him. Like, he wasn't playing a character to be egg. Like, that's just. He's just that, like, animated and that excitable and. Which is always kind of fun to see.

[Host]

The other thing that's pretty rare these days that I think they do well is that they take their time with act one. The kind of fixation, what's the word of everything? Is where they assume people have no attention span. They assume they have their phone in the other end while watching. So everything has to be spelled out. Everything has to be center of frame so it can be cut. For TikTok, the lighting is always, like, very even. Save money. They did the opposite of that. Right. Everything is beautiful. It's well shot. But they also took their time with Act 1 so that by the time the drama comes, you care about these people and the stakes are there. I would even say, like, at first, this seems like a sports movie arc where you're like, okay, like, this underdog is coming in and he's gonna have to prove, like, it's kind of like the Rocky arc, right? He may not win the whole thing, but he's gonna show what he's made of. He's gonna make friends along the way. You expect one thing, right? So you're kind of like, living that arc for a while until it takes quite a turn. I love that they took their time, and some of my favorite parts of the whole show are just hanging out with them in the first couple episodes as they're, like, you know, making goose eggs and eating big sandwiches and laying in the grass and chatting and, like, I love that even in a show as short as this, they took their time there.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, there's a lot to be said about that where, you know, the opposite that we're gotten used to is, like, the Marvel of Marvel occasion. Everything's like a Marvel movie where there's so much action, you're like, I don't know why anyone's doing anything right now, but there's a lot happening. I definitely appreciate the more meditative, slower, human elements in a story like that, too.

[Jameson]

Okay, this is from when I first. So I watched it, then I read it, and now I've rewatched it again. So when I first watched it with no expectations, I just went into it. I remember the first real thought I had, I was so pleasantly surprised by. It was just the scope and how narrow the scope of the story is. And that got me thinking about how that is the real issue with these massive IPs. Their scope is too big, and they set themselves up for failure because they're never going to be able to deliver on something. And, you know, it's Game of Thrones. It started out a more narrow scope, like, still a big set pieces and multiple threads and stuff, but compared to where it ended, it was much more narrow. And then by the end, there's just no way they're going to put all the. Like, I remember seeing a blog post when the show ended up that literally was just, here are all of the plot lines that were dropped throughout the eight seasons of the show. And, like, Marvel has the same issue, especially post Phase four, where it's like, every individual thing, it has to tell its own story, but it also has to advance the universe. And it often fails at doing both because it's just too messy and they're promising the world, and there's no way they're going to be able to deliver the world. And so to have a story that takes place over the course of a week at one jousting tournament, and it's not trying to really make us care about that Many characters, it gives itself room to actually land. And I really appreciate that. And I wish we had more IPs that were like, you know what, let's tell bite sized stories within this world instead of trying to make everything epic.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

That's a good point. I didn't think about that. I wonder if it's going to stay true to that or if, you know,

[Jameson]

oh, I'm terrified that the success of season one. I'm terrified that season one success is going to make executives get their fingers on it and say, we got to blow this thing up. And that's going to destroy what made season one so fun.

[Host]

Yeah. I have to agree about this scale. Even the big themes, right? Because there are some about legacy and class and what makes a true knight and the weight of responsibility for others, friendship, chosen blood versus family and all that stuff. Right. Innocence, corrupted by the world. All these things that could have been like big things. They're all seen through the eyes of one or two characters all the time at street levels. Right. And that makes you care about that stuff more than if it was always about, like, armies and kingdoms and.

[Jameson]

Because those same types of questions that you just said of, like, the themes, they tried to explore, those with like, Jon Snow and other characters. But the problem is Jon Snow is only on the screen for a quarter to a third of the episode most of the time. And then you're following other stories, but with this one, it's like literally everything is in service of following Dunk's storyline. And that just gives them the ability to actually take us into it more than most IPs that we consume these days. Hmm. The last thing I want to say, just in terms of, like, me going into the show for the first time, it is interesting how the social media ification of everything actually helped this story, in my experience, because of that one clip that I'm sure we've all remembered and seen recently in Game of Thrones where Joffrey is going through a book of history with Jamie there and he turns to a page and he's like, oh, Sir Duncan the tall. And then Joffrey expresses this amazement that Sir Duncan got four pages, which is like more than anyone got. And Jamie's just like, they do say he was pretty impressive. That is literally all I knew about Duncan going into the show. And so it hooked me from the beginning because I was like, I know this guy's going to end up being amazing, but right now he's nowhere near that. So, like, how do we get there? And so a clip from an episode. I don't know what that was like. Season three, probably of Game of Thrones. One clip from that boosted my desire to know what this story is incredibly well. And when the show was coming out, that clip got posted on so many channels, I've seen it everywhere. That's something that never would have happened 30 plus years ago. And here we are having old IPs, actually hooking me into newer ones.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

That's very cool. I haven't seen that clip, so I wasn't.

[Jameson]

Oh, really?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I wasn't hooked in that way. But it reminds me a bit of what Taylor Sheridan's done in a few of his shows with Yellowstone and then the one that takes place in the 1800s and then 19, was it 20 or something? He kind of like leave seeds that show up in Yellowstone where they bury a skull and then they find it when they're excavating and trying to lay pipe and stuff.

[Jameson]

Oh, fascinating.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, that was something that I really appreciated about those shows perhaps more than anything else, to be honest.

[Host]

So episode number one, the hedge knight, Ser Arlan dies Dunk heads to Ashford for attorney. He gets refused. And that's where he. He realized how few people even remember his master and how he can live a whole life trying to do the right thing and nobody notices or remembers. He meets Stencil and Lionel Baratie on the Laughing Storm. I think to me this character is stealing every scene that he's in. And that's when he takes a very resourceful egg for squire. Establishing right from the start that this is not Game of Thrones. Right. Even the subversion of the music, the theme and shitting everywhere, that's a big one. I'm glad the whole show wasn't about that because that's not my favorite bit of it. But I see what they were going for there. But just establishing that this is about very, very low level people in that world. The pilot has zero action scenes, basically no horrific twists. This is also very different. And I love the line at the end when he's talking to Lionel and he's asking what chance do I really have? And you have none. You have no chance. But it's a great honor to test yourself against a worthy foe. You can kind of see, even if he can enter the tournament, the system is not made in such a way that he should be able to do much.

[Jameson]

Yeah, I hadn't pieced that together. Of there's no action sequences in the first episode. The closest thing to an action sequence, I guess, would be all the Dancing, which.

[Host]

The foot stomping thing, that was great. They're kind of like, testing each other. Who's the alpha here? Can you stand up to me? Everything Lionel does is great.

[Jameson]

Yeah. I am such a sucker for that character. And I want to shake the hand of whatever writer decided, like, this is a character. We need to flesh out more from the novella because just what a value add, in my opinion. I remember I wrote this down. The first real introduction. We've seen shots of him sitting at his banquet table so far, but he hasn't spoken yet. And the first thing that we really hear him say is him yelling to the crowd. I've had a profound thought, if anyone would care to listen. And then what's even funnier is he ends up totally forgetting what he was gonna say, and he just kind of, like, moves on from it. But, yeah, he was such a fresh, just kind of side character that ultimately does end up bringing a lot of value to helping Dunk understand what it means to be a knight. You know, there's. There's a scene, another note I wrote from that episode. There's a scene towards the end after the dancing where Lionel and Dunk are just sitting, talking, and, like. And Dunk's wearing his crown. Cause, like, they're already very drunk. They're already just, like, that level of buddies. And they're talking about, like, some great feat that Lionel did. And Dunk's like, weren't you scared? And the line I wrote, he said with this is Lionel saying, within every man, there are many men. But that which I had to do, Stormlanders have always done. And if they had done it, I could do it too. That's such a protagonism coded, like, idea right there, right? Just this idea, if it has been done. You know, there's a quote from Marcus Aurelius that I love. If a thing is humanly possible, consider it within your reach. This guy who's there, he's already made it. And he's telling Dunk, like, look, man, you're gonna be terrified sometimes, but people have done it, so you can do it too. He's like the comedic relief and also the sage of the show, essentially in one character.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

It's pretty great how they start to interact too, because he's like, what are you doing in my tent?

[Host]

He's like, are you coming for my head?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

No.

[Host]

Supper.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Supper. He's like, well, that makes sense, actually. Yeah. Everyone's hungry.

[Host]

You almost can't imagine that someone would be kind of as naive as do Dunk is right. He's like, well, the stranger is here. He must want something. He must have plans. And, no, we're just hungry.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

He just wants some food.

[Jameson]

I also like just the very first things we see of Dunk when he's kind of reasoning out, like, what should I do now that Ser Arlan's dead, you kind of can tell. He's like, he's not really ambitious. It's not like he's just always dreamed of rising to this to some extent. He's probably always wanted to be a knight. But the way he has to kind of work himself to the position of, like, I'm gonna go to the tournament and claim that he made me knight, it feels less like he's just grasping with ambition and more just like, this is an opportunity. Like, he sees an opportunity and he's like, I should at least try it. And I just felt like that's a very relatable thing to a lot of people where, like, you may not be the most ambitious person, but you're gonna still have opportunities just kind of present themselves. But you have to make the choice of, do I pursue it or not?

[Host]

And there's a seed planted there for the last episode, right? So he's like, what are my choices? And I can join the City Guard. Stop raving, sir. Or I can sell the horses and maybe eat for a year or two. Or there's this tourney, and his big ambition is basically, maybe I can be noticed there and some big lord will take me into their house, right? And I'll have a place to sleep and some food. That's the big ambition. Yeah.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I was just thinking, you know, is he's trying to think of, like, well, what are my options? He doesn't have that many options. So it's kind of like he accidentally burned the boats by just, like, tagging along with this knight. He's like, oh, I kind of forgot to graduate and stuff. But I'm, like, stuck in this perpetual, like, craft that I don't really know. He's like, I guess I gotta do it now. So that idea of accidentally burning the boat's like, oh, shit, what did I do? Maybe I should have learned a few other things along the way.

[Host]

Episode 2 Hard Salt Beef this is the one where he struggles the most to prove his knighthood. Like, nobody remembers Arlen. People are super dismissive of him. Balor, who's the only one who can vouch for his old master, has a great memory of him. And clearly, even as the heir to the throne, right? He's noticing people way, way lower than him on the totem pole. There's the tug of war with the boys. More great scenes. Tansel paints the new sigil and Dunk has to sell one of the horses to even buy armor, right? That's how destitute he is as a knight. He has a rope for a belt, no armor, and he thinks he can enter this tournament with people who have been training under the greatest masters, right? So at least he has self belief.

[Jameson]

I loved this episode because of it's the first testing of his mettle and he hasn't even fought yet. He's not done any jousting or anything, but there are some real moments where he's just like, am I cut out for this? Actually, okay. The first action sequence, really, of the show, if you don't count the tug of war, is the 5V5 jousting at night. And that was such a fun scene. I loved that scene. I haven't looked into if that was ever a thing in actual jousting back in the day, but the idea that it's just this melee of 1v1s and they're just running back and forth and stuff was so cool. But you see as he's watching, you see him so pumped and then you kind of see his face just afraid

[Host]

at the same time, right?

[Jameson]

That's going to be me. Like, am I cut out for this? And then when he's back at camp and he still seems kind of shaken, he says this line, do great knights live in the hedges and die by the side of a muddy road? Like, he's asking, like, am I actually the same kind of guy as the rest of these?

[Host]

It's kind of the eggs line. I don't remember in which episode it is. Maybe in this one or the first one. But, like, when they're introduced, right, he's like, I'm sure Duncan the Tall. Never heard of him. Do you know every knight of the Seven Kingdoms? The good ones. Good ones.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

He's such a snarky little shit sometimes. Like, I love at the end when he's like, the Nine Kingdoms. He's like, what are you talking about? There's seven. He's like, no, there's nine. He just lists them off. It's like, oh, wow, no one has counted in a while.

[Host]

Another great visual gag when you see Arlen at the beginning with a prostitute, I guess. And like, I love how some podcasters have nicknamed him the Long Night. And on first viewing. So that's one thing I loved, is that I knew nothing about this. Right. So I had no idea that who Egg was.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Right.

[Host]

Coming in. But on second viewing, you can see all these little suspicious things that Egg does when the Targaryens are mentioned or, like, will I have to go to the castle? And when he sees the flag, he has all these reactions that make sense when you know, but when you don't, they're pretty easy to miss. I love how they did that. It was very effective for me because we'll talk about it in the next episode, but I didn't see it coming.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I love that I was fooled.

[Jameson]

To me, this episode is a great example of the creators showing, not telling, because it's a big theme. That Dunk is not intelligent. Right. The line is that Ser Arlan always told him he was thick as a castle wall. And there's a scene in episode two that just demonstrates this so perfectly. I love it so much. It's when he and Egg are, like, sitting. Just sitting at a table after he's kind of made a fool of himself in front of. I'm trying to remember what the puppeteer's name is.

[Host]

Oh, Tencel.

[Jameson]

Tencel. So he's, like, made a fool of himself in front of Tencel. He's, like, asking Egg about it. But somehow the conversation shifts to Egg saying how he's always made fun of for being short. And he says, everyone tells me I'm short for my age. And Duck says, well, everyone always told me I was stupid. And then he just stops talking. And Egg prompts him. He's like, and. And Duck's like, clues and what? He's like, and what did you tell people when you said they said you're stupid? He's like, what business of that is yours? My problems are my own. And then Egg says, I thought you were trying to help me. And it ends with him saying, help you what? Grow? The fact that he's just so clueless, but that they're not, you know, they're not just reinforcing it with other people telling him, you're an idiot. Like, they're showing him being thick as a castle wall.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. That. And the insecurity is, is they just show it, right? When someone says, like, oh, that's a sword. Like, it's my sword, by. Right. Right. He's always, like, defensive. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm a knight. I'm a knight. Like, like, he protests a little bit too much.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Maybe part of the thought there is that there are some things that are. Are more Virtuous than just being smart where, like, if you have a sense of what's good and right and you're willing to stand up and, like, put yourself in harm's way in order to stand up for what you think is right, in a lot of cases, that's better than being smart.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. The Targaryens are clearly very smart and educated. Right? But.

[Jameson]

And what does that get to you?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

And they're also psychos.

[Host]

Episode number three, the Squire. That's where Plumber, the guy who keeps, like, spitting everywhere, is trying to get tongue into a rigged fight, which is not in the novella. And that's another one that kept me thinking, okay, this is the sports movie arc, right? There's going to be some drama there. But Dunk refuses for honor. And this is a real test, because it's not. You have to lose. You have to win, right? It's harder to refuse winning than losing. But he still does it, even though he has absolutely nothing. Arion acts like a total psycho. The tourney, he kills a horse on purpose, according to Egg, breaks the other guy's leg. There's the fortune teller that tells Egg that he will be king and die in flames at night. Aerion attacks Tansel, right? Because he goes to the puppet show and the puppet dragon is losing. I love those puppets. They did a great job there. And so he starts breaking her fingers, and Dunk just, like, kicks his ass, sees red, and also remembers his vows, right? And right before he's about to be Curb Stomp, like, in American History X, eggs enter the room and reveals that he's Egon Targaryen. And literally when this happened, like, I stood up in my living room, my jaw dropped, and I just stood there for, like, you know, 15 seconds. And this happens so rarely, right? There's all these films with twists and reveals, but somehow with this one, I was still in Rocky mode, right? This is gonna be like the sports movie for nights thing, and I just didn't see it coming at all. And to me, it was a great twist. I'm glad I wasn't spoiled. And it's also, like, the season's tonal turn, right? From there. It's like a different show. Everything before makes sense in a new way. I love the execution of this.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

The fortune teller gave it away for me. When she said that he would be king, I was like, oh, this boy isn't who he fucking says he is. He's a shyster. So when that big reveal came, I was like, yeah, that fortune teller was telling the Truth.

[Host]

I think I had some idea something was coming, but I didn't see it coming that quickly and that big, right? Oh, yeah, something's going to happen or he's going to grow into someone or whatever, but not. He's already one of the two missing boys.

[Jameson]

Well, just prove that I am also as thick as a castle wall. I did know enough that I knew he was royalty in disguise, but it never crossed my mind that he was, like, Aryan's brother. So I was equally shocked when I probably shouldn't have been his reaction to

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

that fortune teller when he was, like, actually very concerned. He's like, well, why would you say that? Why is he taking this so seriously? Unless it really rings true as being a possibility with him? Like, most kids would be like, I'm going to be king. Like, what are you talking about, you crazy old hag? But he's like, wait a minute.

[Host]

Well, they execute it in a way that they say that, then it moves on to something else very quickly. So maybe I'm thinking across the world, too, but I didn't have time to process it and think about it. I'm already onto something else. So if the reveal was in a different episode, I think it would have been easier to connect the dots.

[Jameson]

They move on so cleverly because Dunk starts laughing his head off, like, that is the most ridiculous thing he's ever heard. So that kind of undermines our ability to process it as realistic, even though that was just very cleverly their way of, like, putting the truth in plain sight. But, yeah, like, he laughs harder at that than anything in the entire series because he's like, that's such a funny thing for you to say.

[Host]

Now that I think of it, there's an inversion there because the whole time, Dunk is the naive one and Egg is, like, the more cynical and educated one. And in this interaction, it's like, from Dunk's point of view, Egg is being naive. Like, you believe that they tell you a good story and whatever, and he's laughing. And Dunk thinks he's the more cynical one here, even though in this world, prophecies exist.

[Jameson]

I loved in this episode how it starts out with him sick. He's like, vomiting with anxiety only to realize he actually can't even fight that day because he's not of royal blood.

[Host]

I wasted all of my anxiousness. It reminds me of a great anecdote. I think it's by James Hetfield, the singer and rhythm guitarist of Metallica, and he told a story about he was sitting in A bar. And there's this guy on the other side of the bar looking at him, and he's looking back and the guy keeps staring at him. And so he gets madder and madder and he's angry. He's like looking at him. And then after a while he realizes the other guy is blind and he doesn't see him at all. And. And he's like, oh, I wasted all my hate. And like, it's. Yeah, reminds me a bit of Dunk. Like, he's psyching himself up the whole day and he's like. And then it's all for nothing.

[Jameson]

You mentioned that first fight or the first joust that Arian does. Such a great way to establish him as a villain. We've already had the scene where he's just being very dismissive of Dunk and he's like, oh, Knight Hodra has really fallen far if you're a knight. Like, very snarky. But when it comes to what type of characters or animals a villain will harm, this is just my own processing. I haven't like read this in some narrative book anywhere. But the more noble the animal, the crueler it seems. So if it's a useless animal, it's like, oh, that's. You shouldn't do that. Like, that's terrible, but whatever. But like, if they kill a dog or if they kill a horse, it's just like, oh, this guy's nasty. And the way he kills, it was just so like, that was the moment where I was able to place like, okay, so Arian's at this level of villain. I know exactly how disgusting of a person he is. If he's willing to do that, that scene, as hard as it was to watch, it's like, okay, they've told me who this guy is now.

[Host]

Yeah. The economy of the writing is amazing. Even when you first meet him and he thinks he's a stable boy and then you meet the night's guards. Right? Very short scene, but then you know right away, okay, these guys are badasses. They seem like good guys, but they may not be working for good guys. The jousting is also very, very economical. Right. One scene and you know exactly who he is. And these are supposed to be honor bound people that follow certain rules and they're play acting at war. Right. That's why they're wearing so much armor. And they're not supposed to like, try to kill each other on purpose. But this guy's like, yeah, I kind of see a loophole here. Right? That's like aim for the horse. Oh, accident.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

It's weird how killing a horse is kind of looked down upon more than killing the actual guy. The crowd is like really bummed out about the horse when like there's guys are gonna die on this field.

[Host]

Yeah. But the guy can fight back, right?

[Jameson]

Yeah. He made a choice to be there, I guess is a difference.

[Host]

Yeah. In that World War horses are also probably like one of the highest prized possession that someone can have.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Oh, so it's more like splashing paint on the Mona Lisa kind of thing is what you're saying.

[Host]

Next one, Episode four seven. Dunk is in prison. Egg reveals all about himself. I love this cinematography. Right. The whole show is beautiful. It's super well shot. It's very different from a lot of TV these days. That's like doing the bare minimum. I love how they start with like, it looks like a starry sky and then it's the prison ceiling. They do a lot of these parallel. I'll put in the show note a video that someone has made of different parallels in the show, different scenes across episodes that mirror each other. Anyway, all that stuff looks great, so it's harder to describe. I'll put the video in the show notes. Then there's Darren that shares his dream. Right. The dead dragon dream. Dunk is trying to assemble the seven champions because clearly Arion is afraid of facing Dunk on his own. He's looking at the guy that's like, you know, six, seven or something. Like I found this old like law about this thing we can do. Egg is doing great work because he knows a lot of these guys, right. So he helps recruit Stefan defects. So Raymond Snyder right there, that's such a cool moment. I love that. I love the callbacks to Arlen Baelor. The big reveal at the end. Baelor joins on dunkside. That was another goosebump moment for me. And then they play the music non ironically. I thought this was another great episode.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah. The bit about the villain knowing all of the little loopholes just makes me think of tax evasion and how so many uber wealthy people are just obsessed with trying to evade taxes and like, you know, have an army of lawyers just to, well, pay a ton of money just to avoid paying a ton of money. It's more about like the fact that like, not to villainize rich people, of course, but the villain is very tuned into all of these details that otherwise like normal people are like, what are you talking about?

[Host]

And even his father is calling him out on him. Right. He's kind of like, this is bullshit. Okay. It's your right. But really, is that really. That's the way you want to go? And as a prince, like, I don't think anybody else kind of would call him out except his father. But I love that detail where at this point in the arc, Maekar is kind of also shown as kind of a villain kind of guy, but even he is like, what the hell are you doing?

[Jameson]

I think it's that in the show, Maekar doesn't know what a trial 7 is. In the novella, they don't make that assumption. But the fact that his own father is like, what is that? And they're like, yeah, it's this really old thing from the. Is it the Andarels is the name of the ancient people?

[Host]

Yeah. Oh, if it's the Eldens, then okay, yeah, well.

[Jameson]

But just the fact that he's like, I don't. So to me, when that moment happened, I was like, yeah, Arion, you really are a crafty little bastard. Like, you. You know. You know all these things that your father doesn't even know into Tinkard's point. Like, he knows all the ways to avoid the taxes of his mistakes. I thought that was a very interesting detail of a small change to make that just sets up Aryan's character even more.

[Host]

Yeah, it's totally a way to use his position too. Right. Because if the fight is supposed to be about honor and you're one on one, that's one thing. But if you're like, oh, yeah, we'll just pick seven people. Oh, by the way, I'm gonna have, like, a few of the Kingsguards on my side. The best fighters in the whole realm on my side, and everybody's gonna want to join. This is the first time this type of fight happened in 100 years. And they're sure my side's going to win, so everybody's going to want to be on my side. Totally fair, right?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

It's like showing up to a bar fight with a few Navy SEALs. It's like, come on, dude. Like, that's. That's not fair. Like, all of us are drunk and you bring these guys.

[Jameson]

I really loved the quiet scene that's just Dunk and Prince Balor, where they're kind of talking about his action and, like, you know, is this not what I'm supposed to do as a knight? And he's like, wouldn't you have done the same? And he's like, yeah, but I'm a crown prince, not a hedge knight. And then Dunk in his simplistic purity, Dunk just says, don't all knights make the same oath to protect the innocent? Like, should it matter that you're a crown prince and I'm not, if I'm just fulfilling the one thing I'm sworn to do as a knight? So good to what we were talking about earlier of, like, someone as simple as him versus the crown complex intellectuals of the Targaryens, which, you know, are up there with the Lannisters in terms of the families of Game of Thrones that are the most cerebral and smart. He just kind of challenges that with this very simple question that's like, how do you talk around that without it seeming like a justification?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Actually, that makes me realize that there's an inversion with Dunk and Egg, where Egg thinks like an adult and Dunk thinks like a child. But, you know, in a way that, like, really clarified. Like, if you have children or if you've spent time with a lot of children, you'll find that they have a wisdom that adults seem to forget as they get older. And it's like, well, why do you do that? It's like, well, I need money. It's like, well, why do you need money? It's like, well, so I can go fishing. It's like, can't you just go fishing? You know, there's that old, like, story of, like, the. The rich guy who goes to the. On vacation and talks to a fisherman, and he's like, oh, well, you could buy, like, several more boats and then you could get, like, create a franchise and then a corporation and then get super rich. And he's like, well, what would I, you know, do with all that money? He's like, then you could fish every day. He's like, well, I already do that.

[Host]

You retire and you fish.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Exactly. It's kind of like Dunk has that childlike sort of wisdom that comes off as. Most of the time it comes off as, like, stupid and naive. Like the conversation, Jameson, that you were mentioning earlier, where he's like, oh, everyone called me stupid. But it clarifies situations in this instance with Balor, where it's like, well, isn't that what a night's supposed to be? And it's like, oh, maybe most people, Most adults are actually cluttering the situation with so many concepts and ideas and context that they fail to see through it all in terms of what's actually important here. And what should we prioritize?

[Host]

Clearly, that's one of the big themes here. You are what you do, not some Label, right? And so there are lots of knights around, but if they don't behave like knights, if they don't have true honor, right? Everybody's even telling dung, like, maybe you should just run away, right? It's like, well, I'm in this. I'm gonna do it. Right? His actions make him much more of a true knight than most of the others.

[Jameson]

Speaking of comparing him to other knights, Liberty, with your comparison of how it first felt like a sports movie. I always struggle when a character that you shouldn't like actually has a baller line, because when he's talking to Raymond and Stefan is there, and Stefan has this line that's like, this would be the best line if this were a sports movie. He says, I do not know why tragedy so off follows after honorable men, but when I find myself without the answers, the answer is always more glory.

[Host]

Well, it sets up the fall in the next episode, right? Because at that moment. Moment, you kind of like that guy. You're like, oh, he's kind of a badass. He's an asshole with his cousin. But when the shit hits the fan, he's there, right? He's gonna be there for Dunk.

[Jameson]

And then.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jameson]

And then before that reveal. But when we're at the the arena and Dunk's, like, thanking everybody, there's another classic Lionel moment that made me laugh so hard where Dunk is like, oh, thank you guys for coming. He's like, and thanks to Stefan for getting you. And Lionel just goes, who the hell is Sir Stevron? Like, he says the name completely wrong, and he's just like, who's that gu? Like, we're not here because of him. But, yeah, just any scene Lionel was in, I was excited for more interactions with him.

[Host]

Anything else for that episode?

[Jameson]

Classic slow mo music set to it. They used all the cheat codes of, like, getting you hyped, but the scene where Dunk is walking up to the stand, I guess. But we're lingering on Lionel knighting Raymond, and it's just like the slow mo of the sword tapping his shoulders and the right that he says, I wrote it down because of course I wrote it down. He says, in the name of the warrior, I charge you to be brave. In the name of the father, I

[Host]

charge you to be.

[Jameson]

Just. In the name of the mother, I charge you to protect the young and innocent. And at first, I was, like, expecting more than three lines, but then afterwards, I was like, you know, I like that. It's actually just that simple. It's just like, be brave. Be Just and protect the innocent. That is all it takes to be a knight. The next episode is in the Name of the Mother, right? So it's like we're almost. It's challenging us to linger on. In what way does this episode show them protecting the young and the innocent?

[Host]

In a way, I love that knighthood in that world is outside of the typical hierarchy of the nobles and the houses and everything. But anyone can make a knight. Even Baelor, he calls Dunc Sur and he recognizes that stuff. Even if just some lowly hedge knight knighted by someone he barely remembers from 16 years ago at some, like, whatever, that system is accepted. And it's one of the few kind of meritocratic parts of their system, apparently, where if you are brave enough, if you are good enough, you could squire for someone and become a knight and do great things without noble blood or whatever. So the next one is in the Name of the Mother. This is one where the Trial of Seven begins. And it begins quite, quite roughly, but very quickly goes into a flashback where we learn about Dunk's Flea Bottom childhood and how Ser Arland saved him. When he comes out like drunk and swings his sword around, he says, in the name of the Mother, let that child be or whatever. And that's for protecting the young and innocent, right? That he remembered his oath. He remembers what a true knight is. The flashback is a big part of the episode. And on the first viewing, I had a bit more of a trouble with it. I was like, no, I want to go back. I want to see what happens, right? But on second viewing, I liked it a lot more because the way they shot the fight in POV and very, very confusing and brutal. And I don't think you could have had that for like 30 minutes of that, right? It needed to be pretty short. Having the flashback there works for me. Showing where he grew up and how he grew up makes the second part of the fight makes sense, where he basically ends up defeating Arrian. Not because he's a better knight than him at like, traditional swordplay and all that. He's clearly outmatched in many ways, right? The sword thrown in the leg and the dagger in the hand, and he barely stands on his horse for a minute at the beginning of things, he's clearly outmatched in most things, but sheer grit, right? Street fighting abilities, that's what makes him triumph and win in the end, right? When he's just bashing Arion's head in with his own shield and you see the shield crumpling, that's what he has that these princelings and pampered guys don't have. I love when he's dragging Aerion by the foot in the mud. The most humiliating way to lose a fight possible.

[Jameson]

Aerion kind of.

[Host]

I forfeit. Looking almost like a child. I thought this was really well done. I like that they made the fight confusing because it's mostly Dunk's perspective. Every episode so far has been mostly Dunk's perspective on things. And so they didn't all of a sudden have drones flying around and tried. No, no, no. You're in his shoes for that moment. I thought that was great. The ending also has a huge reveal, which is that during the fight, Maekar hits Baelor, and basically the only thing holding his skull together was his helmet, so he dies at the end. This is another one of these, like, the good guys technically win, but they still lose moments. I thought this was another great episode. Very dark, lots of fog and everything. I wish we could see a bit more at times, but I think it turned out very well.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I really like the flashback, too. For one, you need to flesh out the episode. Six episodes is pretty short. And then I read the novella, and of course this is added extra, and it adds a little bit more depth. It kind of explains why he's maybe such a. An inexperienced virgin, because, like, he had his heart, like, kind of, like, wrecked when he was, like, a little boy before he could even get started in the whole, like, having a crush while actually in puberty sort of thing. So I loved it because when you finally come back to the fight, I thought that the transition was kind of perfect. Yeah, it was fantastic. And then at the very end, when we realized, Baelor, you make that point like, the good guys win, but it's kind of like Superman gets sacrificed to save, like, Robin in the superhero universe, where you're like, oh, was that really, like, a worthy trade? And of course, that's a big point of what happens in the last episode. But as Jameson's already pointed out, with regards to Joffrey, he gets, like, four pages in the end, so it seems like he's probably going to live up to the sacrifice, but definitely a steep one in the eyes of the audience of the world.

[Jameson]

Seeing him as Dunk of Flea Bottom is interesting. I shared the same feeling, Liberty of, like, I want to get back to the fight. So the first watch, I was a little more impatient with it. When I watched the second time, I realized that Dunk doesn't just feel betrayed by Egg. When he learns that he's a prince because he lied to him. But it's because you notice the moments in the first couple episodes where Dunk starts feeling close. Like he starts feeling some sort of connection with Egg. It's when he makes bad assumptions, but he makes assumptions that, oh, this guy's just like me. When he's like, I'll take you back, like, where you're from. And he's like, oh, it's a long way to King's Landing. And he's like, oh, King's Landing. That must mean he's from Flea Bottom, just like me. He had created this false image that Egg is just like him, and he felt this need to, like, protect him and help him the way Sir Arlen had helped Dunk from this flashback. And that was kind of shattered and he felt like a fool of just like, I can't believe I. I thought that, like, this kid needed my help, when in reality, like, he's just playing hooky from his duties as a prince. Overall, that flashback, it was very interesting. Give more depth to his character. Tinkard mentioned this, but ultimately, the thing that makes it all worth it is the way that it leads up to that line of get up. Like, Ser Arlin saying, get up.

[Host]

Shiver down my spine.

[Jameson]

And the way that it's reused throughout the rest of that episode is just kind of the battle cry of just like, get up. Like, you're not saying kill him. He's not saying, but he's just like, do not die on your back. Like, get up. Yeah, I'm getting hyped just quoting that again. Which leads to another thing I love from when he does get up. David Goggins talks about how he loves taking souls. Like, he loves doing things that make people's face just fall because they thought there was no way he was going to be able to do that. He cites from Rocky, when Rocky gets up, whatever round it is where Apollo thinks he's finished him, and he's, like, celebrating. And then the crowd start cheering in a way that makes him turn around and when he sees Rocky standing up, his face just falls. And so that's what David Goggins calls taking a soul. And you see Dunk take Aryan's soul after he has that. That callback of get up. And, like, he can't see through one eye. He can barely stand on his two feet. But when Aryan turns around, you just see his face and he's just like, oh, no, I can't believe. But yeah, so, like, Dunk took his soul in that moment, and that kind of turned the tides.

[Host]

And I love how this fight was like, they could have gone all kinds of ways, right? Because Dunk is massive, right? So maybe he could have just won through, like, oh, he's better than we expected or whatever. No, they take the die hard approach. He's like, he's almost dead, right? He's barely, like, hanging in there. Everybody's over him, but he just went through, like, sheer not giving up. I love that. To me, that feels more earned. When he does win, the price he has to pay is so much better than if he somehow had dominated from the start.

[Jameson]

That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. But you point that out because he's finally in a domain where he should have an advantage for the first time in the show. They had to cripple him essentially right off the bat in the jousting portion where he's not experienced. He had to take a hit early on to put him on somewhat of a level playing field. If it just started on foot with a sword, like, it would have been hard to make a fight that we wouldn't have been like, yeah, he should have won that pretty easily.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Also, just this idea of get back up is clearly the core of this episode, maybe the show. And you think about entrepreneurs, business, in so many cases, just having persistence and the ability to outlast the competition in the long run is often one of the, if not the most important, quality. People give up on things so quickly because, oh, I'm not talented in this. They try it once and the drawing is shit. So they stop trying to become an artist, all that sort of thing. So I love, like, if the show has, like a clear sort of moralistic tone to it, I love what it's picked, which is just like, just get up. Just keep going. Just get up. Just keep going. You don't have to be the smartest, you don't have to be the most well trained. You don't have to have royal blood. You don't have to have fancy armor. Just keep getting up.

[Jameson]

Amen.

[Host]

Oh, yeah. I love the blacksmith that's like, I don't make the fancy shit that looks like fruit and dragons and stuff. I just make good steel.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

One of the themes that I didn't really notice on first viewing, but I stood out more to me on second and reading the novella. There's a lot of grieving and loss in this, right? So from the first episode, Dunk, the whole time, he's basically grieving his master, his father figure that he just lost probably Spent a while grieving Rafe, and then when he meets Arlen, Arlen is grieving his lost squire for a while. Right. So he's acting all erratic and drunk and all that, and like, oh, crazy old man. But then you're like, yeah, but he just lost someone. And he's probably, like, in that process that's been Dunk's life up to that point. So when. When he gets attached to Egg, and then right away, he's already losing him. He's already like. That must be all part of what's going on in his head in that moment.

[Jameson]

Yeah, very true. Last thing I'll have to say about this episode, which is just a little kind of fun fact that I didn't pick up on until the second viewing. What was kind of cool about the fight is the fact that it is just Dunk's perspective. Even though there's a lot of people fighting, you don't ever hear a line of dialogue during the fight from Raymond or anyone that we're established as side characters. But I rewound it to make sure. But we do actually see the shot where Maekar hits Balor in the head.

[Host]

Yeah. And I think he was going to his son. Right. He was trying to protect his son or something.

[Jameson]

I think the way I interpreted it was more just like, he didn't see who it was. He just knew someone was behind him. And so he just swings his. They call it a mace, but it's like a mason chain or a flail, honestly. But he just swings it blindly without really seeing who's behind him. And he hits Baylor, like, in the back of the head because he's swinging it around like that. But yeah, so that was like an interesting. Like, okay, like. So it's actually, like, shown in there. Whereas no character. They all assume it was May car, but no one can actually be like, yes, I saw it happen. It's like, oh, is the audience actually do see it happen?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I didn't pick up on that. That's interesting.

[Jameson]

It's so fast. Like, you'd have no clue the first viewing, but when you're watching the second time, and you know that's what happened. Like, the clip kind of stood out to me.

[Host]

I didn't do it myself, but I've heard on some podcasts, some people, like, frame by frame, analyzing the background during the fight. And, like, you see when bees burri dies or when the kingsguard is like, go protect. Like, they really choreographed this thing very well. Even if most people just won't see it.

[Jameson]

You love that you love when they put the attention into the detail that they know most people aren't even going to notice, but they just care enough about the craft that they're like, we need to do this for ourselves. Even more respect to the production team

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

on that nice little Easter egg.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Host]

Final episode is tomorrow. Aftermath of everything. Right. This is a pattern that you see like in the Wire. The last episode is just kind of like, you know, what happens after the big thing.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

The denouement.

[Host]

Exactly, Ma. So Maegor exiles Arian to the Free Cities. He offered Dunks a place at Summerall and for Egg to be a squire. So if we go back to episode one, right, this was the dream. This was what Dunk really wanted. He's like, if I'm lucky and this thing goes well, the best I can hope for is I'm part of some great house somewhere and I live in a castle and I have food and a soft bed. And so he gets exactly what he wants. But by then, his arc, he's a changed person. He sees the price of all this. He sees what is happening to these Targaryens that live there. Right. Like the whole speech about how Aegon probably never slept in a ditch and all of his stakes are rare and bloody and all that, and look what happened. So he refuses. I love how Maekar's arc here is interesting because he has more dimensions by the end, right? Because you realize that he knows he screwed up when he says, this is my last son. All of his sons are alive, but he knows he's lost all of them except Egg. So that's what makes him a more complicated character. He's trying to do the right thing even if he's failing so far.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I love the sense in this episode that Dunk has, you know, he doesn't have rose colored glasses about like knighthood and under some lord. And he's like, oh, you're just a pet if that's what you do. You're essentially just cosplaying the well intentioned aspects of a knight that should be put into action. It's like, no, no, you're just. You're just a house pet for some lord. He's like, no, I want to actually go out into the world and try to actually do good things that like, that's, that's where my calling really is. And I was disillusioned by all of the pomp and circumstance and the fancy shit that they do on chest plates and shields and whatnot. So, yeah, you mentioned he grows quite a bit in such a short time, which, if you think about he's been following his previous master for so long, he's kind of wonder why he's always been an audience member. Because at the beginning of this show and he's watching the. The jousting, he's still very much enthralled by all of it. But once he finally gets into the arena and gets his ass handed to him, but also triumphs, he realizes that there's just a completely different edge to what he's actually pursuing. And it clarifies it by the end.

[Host]

Not only that, but I think we skipped over probably the most memorable line of the show in the past episode when he does his big Braveheart speech. Are there no true knights among you? And, like, nobody comes and the big guy farts and everybody laughs. And for most people, this knighthood thing, it's a label. It's not a true way of life. The vows are just, like, convenient when I want to do it, sure.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

But, yeah, it reminds me of, I don't know where in the Rick and Morty universe it is when Rick says something to the effect of, like, I've seen what makes you cheer. Your booze mean nothing to me. And so Dunk has, like, the unironic disillusionment. That's the same thing where he's like, really? Like, there's a just cause here. And, like, none of these sons of bitches are going to come help me. It's like, all right, you all suck.

[Jameson]

We have to address was the most curious thing about this episode, which is that it starts with jazz music for the first time in this series. When I watched it a second time, I did pick up on there a few times where there's music that's, like, a little more contemporary than you'd expect, but it's still just very, like, instrumental and melodic. And then all of a sudden, it opens with this jazz music, and you've got Lionel and his maester just staring down at Dunk, who's just propped up against the tree. And, I mean, this is the end of the episode, but then the season ends with a song from, like, the 40s or 50s that is about being indebted to an organization that you'll never pay off. Yeah, I would love to ask the showrunners, like, okay, what was the move here? I don't hate it, but it definitely. It felt anachronistic, like it kind of took you out of it a little bit.

[Host]

Even as a huge fan of jazz, to me, it didn't quite work. I see what they were going for. The whole rest of the show is going for some of these. Right. The explosive diarrhea. At first, they're trying to subvert a few things now. I felt like this was one of these. Didn't fully work for me, but it didn't ruin it either. So it's fine. It's okay.

[Jameson]

Speaking of how Maekar shows more depth in this episode. Lionel shows so much depth when he gets mad.

[Host]

I love you like a brother, or then I'll hate you like a brother.

[Jameson]

But I love when he blows up at Dunk, because Dunk's, like, lamenting like, oh, no. Like, this prince died for me. Like, I'm not worthy of that or whatever. And he snaps, and Lionel just says, the prince fought for you against men sworn to protect him. He risked nothing. And the gods don't favor a fraud. I love that because, you know, we've been very like, oh, Baylor's a good dude. Like, he's what a guy. Like, he put himself on the line. And then you see this perspective from Lionel that kind of reframes it of, like, sure, this freak accident ended up killing him, but, like, in his head, he doesn't think that Balor was really risking much at all.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jameson]

And that line of, like, the gods don't favor a fraud. I was like, ooh, like that. I love that concept of just, like, this universal justice. Even if man is incapable of playing fair, like, the universe or God will make things even to some extent.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Actually, I think there's even more to your point, because right before the battle, Baelor says, oh, I'll take the Kingsguard, because they've sworn an oath, so they literally can't try to hurt me. Which I remember thinking when I heard that, I was like, that's a pretty, like, low way to go about it. Like, oh, you're gonna go try to kill the guys who literally are not allowed to try and hurt you? Like, that's pretty lame, actually.

[Jameson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

I don't think he would try to really hurt the Kingsguards either.

[Jameson]

He'd basically try to take those pieces off the board. Yeah.

[Host]

Which was kind of a dick move.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

But hopefully. Hopefully.

[Jameson]

But it's definitely not as noble as, like, I might die, but I'm willing to die for you because you're doing the right thing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jameson]

It's more just like, you're gonna get killed if I don't do this.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah. It plays into the point where he's not taking an actual risk. Like, he's taking the safest part of the battle, which technically does help the cause.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Host]

Though if he didn't join, I think they would have to forfeit because they don't have seven. So I think he was probably thinking, like, okay, I'm going to give you your chance. But, yeah, it's a more gray move than it would seem at first. It seems super heroic, but maybe so when we.

[Jameson]

When we see that reaction from Lionel, who, in the lead up to the battle, is making jokes about, like, I'm not going to miss out on the first battle of seven in 100 years. Like, are you kidding me? Like, he's always been the carefree. I'm bored with my life as a royal. So I'm always looking for stimulation, adventure, to, like, see this outburst from him

[Host]

where he shows what he really cares about. Right.

[Jameson]

Yeah. Which. Which is, like, he does really see Dunk as a brother. And so to see Dunk almost kind of prioritizing Baylor when, like, I put my life on the line even more for you than Baylor did. Like, what are you talking about? I loved that. And I can't wait to see, like, I hope, you know, I haven't read the other novellas, so I don't know if Lionel ever shows up again, but I hope that we see that character more.

[Host]

Two other big revelations in the episode are it's kind of confirmed that Arlen never knighted Dunk because you see him on the night he died. Right. And so, you know, it couldn't have happened after and it hadn't happened before. And he asked him, like, why did you never knight me? Were you afraid I would leave you? Yeah. And the other big thing is at the very end, after Egg is back and like, oh, yeah, my father said I could serve you. It's almost like a Sith commanding or make our

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

where the fuck am I real? I love that. I love that ending.

[Jameson]

A couple of lines from just the meat of the episode. First of all, interesting since you pointed out Liberty, like, the first episode has no action, and the final episode has no action. This episode honestly gave me really strong. I think it's episode two of the final season of Game of Thrones, the one that's just in the castle before the Battle of Winterfell, which most people agree is, like, the only decent episode in that season, because it's just character depth. It's just people revealing their fears and, like, their hopes and dreams as they're, like, staring down the barrel of this suicidal fight. And so this had kind of similar vibes in the sense of, like, it's just small moments where we're getting reveals about these characters. There's so much foreshadowing with this line. Again, we know, like, Ser Duncan the Tall ends up being massive. And there's this line when he's talking to Maekar and he says, like, there might come a morrow where I'll have need of that foot, and the realm will need that foot even more than a prince's life. And it's like, okay, so that's definitely happening. But I can't wait to see what that actually looks like, because I don't know what shape that takes.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Maekar's response is like, there's plenty of hedge knights, you know, you idiot, there's

[Jameson]

as many hedge knights as there are hedges.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Exactly.

[Jameson]

And then another little kind of foreshadowing, but in a much more playful way when Egg's saying something to Dunk and he just says, are you mad? And Egg says, is that relevant?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I love that. I love that.

[Jameson]

That was so good.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

It's like, yeah, I might be mad, but if I'm right, like, hello, what does it matter? It's that relevant.

[Host]

I gotta mention another funny moment. Like, maybe guy most likely to reply to a Nigerian prince letter, Raymond getting engaged to the prostitute and having no understanding of how pregnancy works and anything like that. And just, like, so naive. And she's like, yeah, nice meeting you for the first time. To Doug, right? Like, don't tell him. Don't tell him you've seen me. I thought that was really funny. But Raymond's another great character. Very pure hearted, one of the rare ones.

[Jameson]

Yeah, very true.

[Host]

So if we look back at the 6, I'm curious, which would you say is your favorite episode if you had to pick one?

[Jameson]

Now I'm just looking at my overviews of each to make sure I weigh.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Actually, I gotta think about this for a second.

[Jameson]

Yeah, that's hard. Liberty.

[Host]

I think the run from, like, episode three to five is, like, very unimpeachable. But if I had to pick one, I think I would pick number three, because it's kind of still before it gets very violent and very dark. And some of what I enjoyed the most was just hanging out with Dunk and Egg, just watching the daily life of, like, Hedge Knight and the logistics of the tournament and the responsibilities of knights and squires and exploring their friendship and them hanging out and looking at stars and eating big sandwiches and eggs. I'm not sure if it's episode three, but, like, that type of vibe I really loved. But the ending of three the one that made my jaw drop is also, like, so good and really got me. I think this one is the episode that was my peak enjoyment, even if I really love the others.

[Jameson]

2.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Okay, I have an answer. It's weird because the first time I watched the show, I was not impressed with this episode. It was my least favorite. But after watching it a second time, and especially after talking about it, the last episode, I think is my favorite. And the reason is, is because so many shows have this commercialistic tendency to, like, purposely end on a big cliffhanger that leaves you really hook, line, and sinker to be like, all right, they'll be back for the next season. We gotta make sure that this continues on. And this does not do that at all with this denouement episode where they tie up a bunch of loose ends and then they present the fact that, all right, they are entering another door, but there's nothing super flashy. It's just like, this has been the story of the introduction of two characters in, like, the beginning of the game.

[Host]

It's a complete story, right? You don't feel like it's part one, and then, okay, I gotta wait.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Exactly. So I'm simultaneously, like, really looking forward to season two, but not in a way that makes me sort of, like, itchy in that addicted, annoying kind of way where it's like, ugh, it's like

[Host]

an open loop in your head.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yes, exactly. Like, they clean the slate for the next dish, and I'm still hungry. This was the perfect appetizer, and now I'm ready for whatever the main course of the next few seasons is going to be. Mad respect for doing episode six because they could have just sold out and ended on some big cliffhanger, which would have just annoyed me and made me like, you know what? Maybe I just won't watch the next season out of spite.

[Host]

Yeah, well said. It's not a cheap ending.

[Jameson]

Yes.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah. Well, split.

[Jameson]

Why not just round out the entire season, then? And I'll say that the first couple episodes, I love because they just set up a world so cleanly. Like, I remember my first thoughts were, this is what a knight's tale would be if it wasn't a comedy. And, like, it wasn't anachronistic. It's just like, this is just the world of jousting. Who doesn't want detailed stories of the world of jousting? I love the first two. I will nail down and say. I may have to say the second one largely just because it's a combination of the more intimate conversation. That's when we got the scene of, like, people always called me dumb, and he's like, eh. Like. So there's comedy, there's, like. You see his earnestness in trying to get someone to validate that Sir Arlan was a real knight, yada, yada, yada. But then it climaxes with that 5v5 jousting scene that just blew my mind. It was so fun. It was so addictive.

[Host]

And Baelor, their biggest introduction of Baelor is also amazing.

[Jameson]

Yeah, yeah. And then the end of the episode is him kind of realizing, like, oh, no, like, am I able? Like, there's just so much packed into that one episode for me.

[Host]

Great picks. Let's move on to the novella. The differences, the changes they made. Which version do you prefer? Any big things that stand out? So I have a list of things that I've noted that are different. I'm gonna just go through them, but if you have anything to add, please, like, stop me. And in general, I have to say that I like most of the changes they made. The novella is very, very lean, and almost everything that's in the novella is in the TV show. And then they added more, right? They added more scenes of Dunk and Egg hanging out, like, the cooking and the goose eggs and all that stuff is new. Lionel Barettian, the guy we all love so much as a character in the novella, he's basically like a name mentioned a few times, right? And then he joins the fight. So the whole, like, tug of war and the dance and his tent and the footstepping and all that stuff, the drunken, like, musings at the end of the night, all that has been added. And so this gives me a lot of confidence in the writers of the show, like, if they keep expanding this beyond the novellas or whatever. Right? Even Raymond Fossoway, not a big deal. In the novella. He's there, but not many details. Red and Bioni, the two prostitutes at Sir Manfred's, they have some scene stealing stuff, right? The. The scene where there's, like, a. What's a hedge knight? Oh, it's like. It's like a knight, but sadder, right? That type of stuff. The engagement to Raymond I mentioned, all that stuff is great, and it's all added. Another thing that stood out to me is, like, there are more hints about Egg not being who he appears to be than in the novella. There's a scene where just how Egg knows so much about knights and he knows the crabber guy hones off the fleet and all that stuff. Like, the first time I saw it, I was like, oh, this is kind of like a. Almost like a sports fan. Right? This guy's a knight fan. He knows everything about knights. But then you realize, no, he knows because he's living with these guys. He knows them personally. The novella, interestingly, keeps the ambiguity about as Dunk being knighted or not. They keep that more ambiguous. They change the ending where Maekar apparently didn't give us permission to egg to go squire in the book. It's assumed that he did. There's still a little bit of ambiguity,

[Jameson]

but I wondered if it'll come up in another novella that it's like, oh, it turns out he didn't. But I noticed how it doesn't explicitly show that Maekar wasn't aware.

[Host]

Yeah, they added a bunch of Cyr Arlen flashbacks in the novella. We know a lot less about him. Does Flea Bottom childhood is all added. And then the fight. I saw the TV show first. So when I read it in the novella, the fight is much, much shorter. Right. And I understand, right. Some things are better shown. Some things in the book. You get a lot more of Dunk's inner monologue in the show. They were very clever about making him talk to his horses the whole time. In general, I kind of think I may prefer the TV show to the novella, which is rare. Right. Adaptations are very, very hard. I thought this was great source material, but somehow I think they made it even better. I don't know if you guys agree.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I 100% agree. So I watched the show first and then got the book. This was my first time reading George Martin. I didn't read Game of Thrones or anything. The first thing that struck me was just, you know, the writing is very clean, but I didn't actually find it very gripping. All of the names, which I obviously is like, a characteristic of this sort of, like, fantasy world that he's describing, where they, like, periodically list off a lot of names like you very often get in the Bible, if you've ever made that slog. Yeah, I mean, those sorts of things which, you know, are an aspect of what he's trying to do. Like, I have trouble with those just because I. I don't particularly enjoy them. And I felt like the characters had a lot more depth in the show. Jameson, what did you think?

[Jameson]

I definitely agree. And this is just another piece of evidence to a thesis that I've shared on my show several times. Since I cover books and short stories, which is short stories, novellas are way better adaptations than books arrival, right? Yeah. Instead of the filmmaker having to cut, they actually are being given something short enough that they can add to it.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Oh, that's a great point.

[Jameson]

And this is just another. Another evidence of, like, this story had great bones and they had room to add to it instead of it becoming. Because then on top of that, you know, if you've read it and you love the author, you're going into it with, like, I'm going to be critical of everything they took out. And, like, was that the right thing to take out? Or whatever. But with this, it's like, oh, we got everything from the novella and they just made it deeper and richer. So, yeah, I definitely agree. I think this adaptation was really well done. It's one of those where everyone did their job, right? The writers did their job, the directors, the actors, the cinematographers. Like, everyone just kind of came together to make something really fun and entertaining. And so instead of, like, comparing a ton, I just want to share a few things that are valuable from the novella that I liked. The first one is, you guys may do this too. I feel like everyone who wants to write or is a writer does this, but I kind of collect opening lines that I really like. And the opening line of the novella on this one says, the spring rains had softened the ground, so Dunk had no trouble digging the grave.

[Host]

That's a good one.

[Jameson]

It is really good the way that, you know how many books have started with a landscape description, but then within half a sentence, all of a sudden, like, oh, that took a turn. Like, that was not what I was expecting. So such a great opening line. There's a line during the fight scene, I believe, where he kind of is resorting back to who he is internally. And he says he could vanquish Sir Duncan the tall, but not Dunk a flea bottom. Like, he's just kind of like, I'm going back to my scrappy roots. And then maybe the best quote, which goes back to what we were discussing earlier of, like, the purity of his purpose versus the intellectualism of the Targaryens and stuff. Or is there no true knight? I guess he's in the better comparison line. There's a moment where he's remembering something from Ser Arlan and he quotes him. So this is Ser Arlan saying, a hedge knight is the truest kind of knight. Other knights serve the lords who keep them or from whom they hold their lands. But we serve where we will for men whose causes we believe in. Every knight vows to protect the weak and innocent. But we Keep that vow best, I think.

[Host]

Yeah, that's good.

[Jameson]

And so I read that quote and, you know, we talk about a lot of these points of the portrayal, and it's like, that's true. Like, he's the one knight who is really just doing his oath because he's not factoring in geopolitical factor.

[Host]

Doing it because someone told him to. Right. Or he's going to lose the hand that feeds him if he doesn't.

[Jameson]

Yeah. The only real change that I noted, that actually was very interesting to me because it's not just about adding more depth. It's like fundamentally changing something in the character. In the novella, there is not a scene of Egg attempting to kill Aryan.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Jameson]

When he's walking into the room with the dagger. Like, that's not in the novella. And so that's adding a more sinister bent to fun and pure. Little Egg, who we know ends up being kind of a crazy king, but right now he's just been the helpful and supportive little squire. And so it's like. But we're starting to see the seeds. Yeah.

[Host]

It's the dark side of the forest. Right. There's a seed in him and it shows the necessity of taking him out.

[Jameson]

Anakin moments.

[Host]

Yeah. He needs to be taken out of that environment because he could turn like Ariana, when they mentioned, like, oh, Arian as a child, was a nice child, too. He likes fishing and this. That shows, like, you're not born bad. Right. But in that environment, that's a big risk.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Host]

I also want to highlight the point you made about this novella being the perfect kind of seed for an adaptation, because I'm rereading out loud project Hail Mary with my son right now. And I saw the film and I really liked it. But you see that with a longer novel, you have to cut so much. I love how in the book you spend so much time. I don't want to give too many spoilers in case someone has seen the film or read the book yet. But with the main character, you spend so much time alone with him, and then when he's not alone anymore, that makes a bigger difference. And then you spend so much time when he's not alone that by the end, the relationship has had so much time to build. Right. While in the film you have to compress all of that in a couple hours. So I felt like this novella being so lean was the perfect foundation. So I'm really looking forward to the next ones.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Fun fact, just on what you were just saying, apparently the first cut of Hail Mary was over four hours long.

[Host]

Oh, I want to see that cut.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Me too. I'm hoping that they release it in some capacity. Like, it would be like the one time I go buy a dvd, do,

[Host]

like Daz Booth, Right? You have the theatrical and then the miniseries.

[Jameson]

They did a viewing with some of their director friends, and everyone was like, you got to make it way shorter.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, well, I mean, that happens. I feel like that happens with almost every movie where the director does exactly what they want and then it's like, yeah, this is too long for theatrical release.

[Jameson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

I'm sure for commercial results, you need it to be shorter. But I do wish they would release the full one on, like, Blu Ray or whatever. For the super fans.

[Jameson]

Yeah, agreed.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

But back to Night of the Seven Kingdoms. One thing about the novella is that when Dunk finally assembles his team, the novella was so lean in comparison to the show that it seemed not believable to me that these, like, random people would come help him. And this was in spite of the fact that I'd seen the show first. And reading the novella, I still felt like there's not enough like. Like, who are these people to Dunk? Like, it doesn't make sense that, like, oh, I'll risk my life and maybe die for this. There just wasn't enough there to establish the context that made it believable.

[Jameson]

That's a good point.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Which I found kind of amazing considering I saw the show first.

[Host]

That's immersion.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah. Right.

[Host]

So wrapping up. The last thing I want to ask you about is what are our hopes for season two?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Right.

[Host]

Because I haven't read the second novella yet, but I know I'll read it before season two comes out.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Should we?

[Host]

I'm not patient enough to wait, but I also think if there's a good chance that the show is even better than the novella, I feel like it'll be just an upgrade. Right. It'll still be even better even if I know some of the plot points. So I don't think it'll spoil it too much for me, but maybe I'm just being greedy, but I kind of wish they would change the format to an hour long show. Would that ruin it? Or do you guys think it would be even better? Or am I crazy here?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I think that was like a content amount. Like they were already plumped up so much and developed the novella to fill out just six episodes. I just think there's not enough content for them to have done six hours as opposed to the shorter episodes that they did.

[Host]

I Think it makes sense for this one. But they've shown that they can write really good stuff. And I think the pacing could have been a tiny bit slower and more time to hang out with Dunk and Egg and develop the relationship more like tournament stuff that they could have expanded enough without ruining it or diluting it too much. But I haven't read the second one, so maybe the second one is even leaner or maybe there's more stuff that could more easily be expanded. I've heard, and I don't want to spoil too much, but I've heard that second one is basically all new characters. But there are so many great characters from this one. I don't know if some of the expansion could be that some Lynel stuff comes. I don't know. Maybe that's greedy. Maybe that would ruin it.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

We still get Dunk though, right?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, it's all Dunk and Egg. But everybody else is different, I think.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Okay.

[Jameson]

They're in a different part of the kingdoms with completely different people. I did start reading the second one before I realized we were only covering the first one. And like, the only thing, it's not really a spoiler, but just it is like a year and a half or two years in the future. Like, it's given time for them to establish more of a bond as knight and squire, and we're kind of seeing where they're at rather than building up to that. But to the note of, like, could it be longer? I. I don't know. I think it is a razor thin line between I love every second of it and I wish there was more to. Okay, like, they're just dragging it out now. And so I think the best shows are the ones that leave us with this feeling of like, I wish there was more. But I can also respect that they knew when to call it. Like, that's. That is. One of the best things about the streaming era to me is the fact that to some extent, you know, if you're factoring in ad placement and stuff, I guess there's still this consideration, but to some extent it is more. We tell the story as long as it needs to be told. It's not about, like fitting a 22 minute time slot or a 42 minute time slot. It's like, does this episode need to be 37 minutes and then the next one is an hour and 10? Like, we really have more liberty to just tell the story the way it is most effective. Which is a beautiful thing to me.

[Host]

Yeah, that's a good point. That's wise. You're probably wiser than I am. That's the thing, right? Wanting more is a good thing. I have to just embrace it.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Way better than wanting less.

[Jameson]

Yeah.

[Host]

Consider the alternative, sir.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Exactly.

[Jameson]

I do have to sneak in before we wrap. I found myself dwelling quite a bit on, like, why do we love Dunk? Why is he such a lovable protagonist? I was really just trying to figure this out, and I came up with a few different things that contribute. I think, first of all, we live in an age of complex heroes slash anti heroes. And that's cool. Like, I'm glad we're in this place where, like, we can show that there's depth to people and even good people make bad choices and even bad people have, like, real reasons that led to them making those choices, yada, yada, yada. But those come with what I would call, like, a moral clarity tax, where we all of a sudden in our viewing, we're having to make judgment calls about where do I align with this, with this choice in particular, do I agree? Was this the right move? Where were they? Stepping across a line here. Like, we're mentally, like, way more invested in a way that's draining. But with him, there's just this purity of, like, no, he's always going to do the right thing. And in some ways you could say that's over simplistic, but it's kind of a breath of fresh air that in a world where most stories are that complex, it's like, oh, it's kind of nice to just have of the guy who the world he's in is complex and that's gonna make things hard, and that's where the real drama comes from. But, like, I know what he's trying to do, and I know why he's trying to do it is just kind of a nice break from the norm right now. But more importantly, we always appreciate when there's a hero that we don't see as better than us in at least some way, because then it feels more attainable. If he was intellectual and massive, it'd be like, all right, there's no way I could compared to this guy. Like, what's the point of even trying to evaluate, like, if I think he's a good hero figure, because I can't touch that. But when we give him some advantages, like, he's physical, but, like, think about how rare his physical prowess was an advantage in this novella in this first season. Like, sure, it ends up allowing him to take on Arion after he's got the crap beat out of him in the first parts of the fight. And then maybe just the fact that he beats up Aryan when Aryan was breaking Tensil's fingers. But, like, his physicality really didn't come into play very often.

[Host]

And even that, right. He's clumsy, he's always bumping his head in the doors. And.

[Jameson]

And so having him be like, thick as a castle wall and not playing to his advantages very often, it gives us the ability to kind of step in and be like, all right, if he can do it, then I can do it. Because, like, he's not better than me. Like, he's. He's not like a league of his own compared to where I'm at. And then the last thought I had, which this came from a conversation I was having with Claude, so I can't take full credit for it, but. But it pointed out praxis from Aristotle. Like the difference between poesis, which is like, to create something with an intent of achieving something, and praxis, where action is the goal, the only goal is to do the thing. And that is so true of, like, you just track that to his choices throughout. Like, when he runs into safe Tensile, he clearly was not thinking about the repercussions of hurting a prince. He was just thinking about, I have to save this innocent person from being hurt. Like, he is very much just focused on what is the right thing to do without factoring in what are the consequences of my choices here. And that's something that's also pretty admirable. So anyway, those are kind of the reasons why I found I'm drawn to Dunk as a character compared to the landscape of heroes that we see in most shows these days.

[Host]

No, that's great. And as you say, right. In a world where everybody's a anti hero, everybody's like, sometimes it's good to have just someone you can really root for. Someone with some purity, some clarity, a good hearted person. Right. We need some of these. I think we forgot that.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, I love a lot of the thoughts that you shared there. One thing that came to mind was we referenced Anakin from Star Wars a little earlier. And I'm kind of wondering, there is this trend to be like, I just saw a post this morning about Cinderella's stepsisters. It's now like a backstory of her stepsisters. And like, oh, they're not. They're actually not that bad. If you just, like, look into their characters. I find that a little aggravating because it's like, you know what? There Are some, like, genuinely, like, bad people? And, like, sure, they. The context of how they grew up is definitely going to inform this, like, bad outcome, but it doesn't justify the outcome if it leads to, you know, something that hurts someone else or something like that. And so extrapolating forward, I'm kind of wondering. All right, I really like Egg right now. I would actually love if. And I don't think Lucas achieved this in the Star wars prequels, because even after he killed those children and whatnot, I still actually really liked Anakin a lot. I was like, oh, man, he's so dope. He's. He's about to turn into this, like, Jet Black samurai, you know, the Darth Vader, and he's still badass, and everyone loves him. And that actually, you know, saying that reminds me of, like, watching the second Dune in the theater, and people in the audience were, like, cheering by the end. I'm like, you guys don't realize, like, this guy. You should not be cheering for this guy.

[Host]

Like, yeah, it's about, like, the danger of Saviors.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Exactly. It's a cautionary tale. In Dune, I had the experience that you should have with Anakin, and so I would be curious to see if the show evolves in such a way that you get to see Egg becoming. Clearly, he's going to be like, some sort of evil king who does some bad things. And like, the fortune teller said, they're going to be glad that he's gone. I would love if the writers were good enough to actually, by the end of it, make me legitimately hate Egg, that would be a really cool experience. While Dunk stays true to form the whole way despite, like, all.

[Host]

It's kind of a Breaking Bad arc.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess you could say.

[Jameson]

Well, it's kind of using the Star wars example again. It's kind of like if Obi Wan was just dumb, the relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan, if Obi Wan was not, like, smart, but he just was morally that pure. And, I mean, Qui Gon's even kind of the Arlen, right? Like, he's like, do I measure up to my mentor? I just want to mentor this kid that way. I would love if they can achieve that balance of showing the darkening and the. The regression of Egg while showing how Dunk is still. And we know Dunk goes on to do great things, so it's not that he's just insignificant, but that he maintains this level of, like, no, I'm still just, you know, Praxis. I'm just Here to protect the innocent. And the contrast of Egg, like, kind of sinking lower and lower into his Targaryen tendencies. I would love to see them pull that off. That'd be incredible.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

I could definitely easily imagine, like, a show ending clincher where Dunk is in the service of Egg as king.

[Singer]

Ooh.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

And Dunk betrays. Betrays the king in honor of higher principles.

[Jameson]

Ooh.

[Host]

Something like, I want you to write it now.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, well, actually, I have my own season eight that is a complete rewriting of what happened in the show that ties up all of the loose endings. Like, once AI generated video is good enough. I'm gonna unleash this on the world because I need my own catharsis. I still don't have catharsis from that show. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of potential here in terms of, like, these days, people are either like, oh, let's just go full anti hero almost since, like Leopold Bloom with James Joyce, honestly, who started that whole shenanigan. But it would be great to have a show that actually braids these two ideas together in a really elegant way. And based on this first season, it seems like the show writers absolutely have the chops to pull it off, but we'll see.

[Jameson]

Fingers crossed the studio doesn't get too involved because of the success of season one and change it fundamentally.

[Host]

Whatever happens, I have a feeling that in a year we'll be back here to discuss season two.

[Jameson]

Can't wait.

[Host]

I really enjoy this guy's.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Have they started filming?

[Host]

Yeah, I think they're filming right now.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Oh, excellent. Okay. Because that kid is going to grow up fast. Yeah, well, I'm only going to start watching shows that have, like, a young kid in it so that they have to pump out seasons quickly, like Pluribus. I love Pluribus. And it's going to be like two years before we see another season.

[Jameson]

Well, even then, that's not a guarantee because look at Stranger things. By season five, we had 25 year olds playing 16 year olds anyway.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, that's a good point. I hope it doesn't with that.

[Host]

All right, so word of the day is praxis.

[Jameson]

I was gonna say words of the day should just be get up, right?

[Host]

Oh, yeah, that's even better.

[Jameson]

Yeah, that's less.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Word of the day is Praxis. Lesson of the day is get up.

[Jameson]

We're turning this into a Sesame street episode.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

This is fun, guys.

[Host]

Please tell the listener where they can find more about you if they want to re listen to more of your stuff. Where they can find you. Tinker what's the best place?

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

TinkerThinking.com, it's a blog with a thousand essays and lots of short stories. I've published two volumes of short stories dubbed the Lucilius Parables. And then latest book from Infinite Books is White Mirror, which is a collection of optimistic sci fi which you should definitely, definitely buy right now.

[Host]

Pause this podcast player and go buy it. And if you want to learn more about it, Tinker than I. And with Dillian, the editor recorded a whole podcast just about White Mirror and the experience of writing it.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

[Host]

The stories themselves and all that went into it. So please check it out. Jameson, what about you? Where should the listener go?

[Jameson]

I'll just say go to wherever you consume podcasts and look up becoming the main character. It's where I retell the greatest fiction ever written with a specific lens of the character choices and how that leads to their success or demise. I just released part one of Project Hail Mary. Actually, I've been mostly doing classics, but this is the first time I've done a contemporary novel. And then from there, in the description of the episode, you can find links to the Social channels or my substack where I am fleshing out my own school of philosophy called Protagonism that believes that by using the rules of great story writers, you can use those same rules to script a better life for yourself.

[Host]

So definitely go check it out and if you don't know where to start, I'll recommend the Lord of the Rings. Episodes are great, and if you want something a bit shorter, the Hounds of Baskerville, the Sherlock Holmes one. I had never read that story, so I kind of lived it through your podcast, which is kind of like half a bridge audiobook version, half analysis. I love that format that you created. It's kind of like a hybrid of multiple things.

[Jameson]

I've coined the term podio. Book is what I do because it's long for podcasts, but it's still like 20 to 25% as long as the actual audiobook is. So it's a condensed telling, but it is the full story, start to finish.

[Host]

Great polio books. All right, guys, thank you so much.

[Jameson]

Bye.

[Host]

Bye. I'll play this out.

[Tinker Tinking Jamieson]

Cheers.

[Singer]

A tall knight and a small lad walking down the road One's got a sword, the other's got a secret A knife with no lord a boy with no A realm full of drama and we're pulling up a chair so sing of Sir Duncan Tall and true and Little Egg Esquire Tried and true. Now gather, ye small folk Pour yourself an ale for Dunk and Egg and three guys telling tales.

[Host]

Bye. Bye.