← Life with Marianna
Life with Marianna
Unlock Career Fulfillment: Find Your Career Path, Align with Your True Self, and Embrace Directional Thinking with Holistic Career Coach Megan Hellerer
00:35:48
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- [00:00]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi, it's Mariana. I'm the co founder of Summer Fridays and host of the Life with Mariana podcast. I loved listening back to this episode when I was editing it because I felt like I even learned so many things listening it back from myself and just my own career and just how I think about decisions and my own career path. And I was thinking of a few friends that I wanted to send it to and so I hope you find it really helpful for you. Megan is a career coach and in this episode we talk about unlocking your career fulfillment, finding your career path, aligning with your true self, and how to embrace directional thinking. And she really explains what that is. If you guys wanna learn from Megan, keep listening and also check out her book and don't forget to subscribe to my podcast because I got new episodes every Tuesday before being a career coach that you are now. I really wanna learn more about that. But you had a really successful career at Google before transitioning to this. But you mentioned that despite your success in your career, you just were unfulfilled and not happy. So what were some of those key signs or moments that made you think, okay, I thought this was my dream, but maybe it's not really.
- [01:09]
B
Yeah, it's such a wonderful question and it looks different for everyone. And part of my work is starting to figure out what that looks like for everyone, so you can start to learn how to detect it and get ahead of it. For me, in the end, it became very obvious. I was severely depressed. I was having trouble getting out of bed in the morning, I was having almost daily panic attacks. I was really anxious, I felt very ashamed and I was pulling away and sort of keeping secrets. In relationships, when I say secrets, I mean not sharing how unhappy and how scared I really was. And so I think those were the mental health signs that really indicated to me that something was wrong. That was, you know, eight years after I started at Google. And I think looking back, while I'm so grateful for that experience, the very first day I was there, I think I had a sense that this wasn't me, whatever that means, just that sort of inner voice, what I call the inner navigation system that was telling me, this is not your warmer, this is not in my language directionally right for you. And I can't tell you exactly what that was other than it was a felt sense that this was not aligned and this wasn't sort of on purpose for me.
- [02:37]
A
Some people might be feeling that way. How do we know if this is A temporary feeling or a long term feeling, because sometimes there might just be growing pains where it's like, okay, it's taking me a few months to get settled here. Or at some point you should listen to your intuition and say, okay, this has kind of gone on long enough. This is more than just growing pains of starting something new.
- [02:55]
B
Yeah. And I would never recommend to myself or to anyone who came to me that if you have a little inkling on the first day of a new job that you. That it might not be right for you, that you should quit. Absolutely not. We definitely need to learn more and get more information from that. And so most of us don't actually need to make gigantic leaps in, in the way that I ended up having to in order to change my life. Most of us don't need to sell our homes or quit our jobs or move to another country or get a divorce or whatever the thing may be. So I would advocate, but still paying attention to that feeling and not ignoring it. One of the crucial things that most of us at some point are trained out of is telling ourselves the truth about our lives. And that's one of the key things that we need to. I believe we need to start practicing again. And so acknowledging that feeling and then we want to really look at what could be a smaller fix for it. So what is one small action that might address the specific thing that is giving you the X? So maybe the first day for me it was, you know, I don't remember exactly, but you know, maybe it was the manager that I had. In that case, you can at some point start to look at, okay, if I had a different manager or if I was working on a different product, or if I was in a different office or a different team or had a slightly different job role, would that change things for me? So I usually advocate doing some experimentation before you make any big leaps and only make that leap when you are sure that the whole thing is the problem versus a particular thing about it.
- [04:39]
A
And you mentioned your inner navigation system and acknowledging your own feelings, and I think those are important to keep track of. So are there any daily practices or journaling prompts or way to really take note of what's happening so that we can see cumulatively over time what these kind of patterns are?
- [04:55]
B
Absolutely. So one of the things I talk a lot about in my book and one of the crucial phases of moving from what I call destinational thinking to directional thinking or directional living, and we can get into the details of what that is, but we really making the Shift to something, to your more aligned, fulfilled life. And one of the key phases of that is getting aligned, what I call truing yourself true in the sense of correcting or returning to the original form. Sort of like you would a building in carpentry, if it was crooked, you would true it. So we want to discover what our true self is. And in opposition to that, we want to start to recognize what our fear self is. And one of the key things that we can do is learn our particular inner navigation system which is made up of this true self and the sphere self. And knowing how to discern between those is a crucial piece of being able to navigate directionally and authentically. So the first way that I would suggest doing this, if you're brand new to this work or you're like, I don't think I have a gut feeling ever, or I have no idea what you know, when people say trust your gut, I have no idea what my gut is telling me or don't feel like you have a sense of intuition. The first thing I would recommend is what I call an inner navigation system calibration. And how we start that is to think of in its most basic form, to think of something that you know for certain is true for you, something or someone that you love unabashedly with absolute certainty, someone that you trust completely. This could be a pet, this could be a partner, a friend, a caregiver. And see how that feels in your body when you think about being with that person or that thing or doing that thing or being in that experience. And then in contrast to that, we're going to try on the opposite, which would be the sensation of your fear self. So think of someone or something that you know clearly is wrong for you, that maybe that was a decision that was terrible for you in hindsight, someone you really just don't feel comfortable around or don't, you know, don't respect. This could be, you know, a political figure, it could be an ex, anything along those lines. It could also be again an experience. So for me, these two things are, would be coaching would be the true self side of things, and my fear self side of things would be Google. And so again, we're going to try that on in your mind and sort of see how that feels in your body. And what we're doing there is calibrating these two poles of this for me, this, Google and coaching, and seeing the difference between the two. And that's a really simple way of starting to calibrate your inner navigation system. And from there we want to start using that as we're making decisions. I suggest starting with really small decisions. What you're going to have for dinner, what TV show you're going to watch, what book you want to read next, what exercise class you want to take. And people are really surprised to find that often they actually are not doing the thing that they really want to do. Even with those simple decisions, they're doing the thing they think that they should do. And so often when we start calibrating and really noticing, does this feel like my true self or my fear self or another way of thinking about it? Does this feel warmer or does this feel colder? And we always want to go where it is warm. And so starting to practice that in these low stakes decisions and really get a sense of what that feels like for you when you're in each of those states is a great way to start this process. And what happens over time is that when you're making a bigger decision about a new job, whether to stay or leave in a job, about a relationship, some of these bigger life decisions that we're going to come across, they're going to feel simpler and clearer because we're used to using the mechanism by which we can make authentic and aligned decisions. And those big decisions will not feel any different to your inner navigation system than the smaller decisions. So you can imagine if you were using a GPS system in your car, it doesn't care whether you're going five miles or 5,000 miles. The mechanism is the same. The same is true here.
- [09:32]
A
So the holidays are coming up and I'm really excited about this time of year. I think every time I open TikTok, I look at these gift guides and these curated guides and I want to think about what am I adding for myself. And I'm always curious about what everybody else is shopping for. And it's okay if you didn't get to all your holiday shopping done as early as you wanted to and as you hope, because Ouai is making it easy to give way better gifts this holiday. Their hair and body products are specifically designed to customize routine that works for you and personalize a gift for everyone on your list. I love their products because they really work for me. And I love that these products actually work for my hair because I have like fine, medium hair. I have a lot of it, but like the actual strands need help. And when I think about my shower routine and how I shampoo and condition, it really gives those results that I'm hoping for. In the end, give way better gifts with bestsellers like their Leave in Conditioner. It's a multitasking leave in Conditioner that detangles, hydrates and fights frizz. There's also the Detox shampoo, which I need when I have too much product buildup. It also helps with hard water deposits, S oil and other impurities. There's also the St. Bart's Hair and Body Mist, which I know you probably will love and it's such a beautiful fragrance. There's also the Hair oil, which I love especially this time of year and also helps to revive damaged hair easily. Tis the season to get away and save save 15% off site wide when you give the gift away. Whether the person on your list has fine, medium or thick hair or multiple hair concerns, Ouai's got you. Get on your way to save for the holiday. Go to theouai.com for 15% off site wide and enter promo code MARIANA15. That's t-e o u a I.com for 15% off with code MARIANA15. So I was walking around the grocery store aisles and I saw this pistachio milk and I got it and I tried it and then I posted on Instagram a few months later like does anyone have any dairy free milk alternatives? And so many people were telling me about Tash and it's pistachio milk and it's the only pure pistachio milk on the market. It's dairy free, filler free and oil free. Unlike oat milk, Pistachios have a 75% smaller footprint than almonds and it's been featured in Bon Appetit and Vogue and it's that viral pistachio milk that you've probably seen on TikTok. I love this brand because at first I was a customer. People told me about it on Instagram. I loved it so much I actually ended up investing in it. And they have two barista versions. There's original and unsweetened original and then there's also three chilled milk versions. There's Unsweetened Original Vanilla and Unsweetened Vanilla. All five flavors are available in the refrigerated milk and creamer sections at over 500 Target stores nationwide. And there's a special deal for life with Mariana listeners Buy one carton of any flavor online or in store at target and get 50% off the second. Go to pistachiomilk.com Mariana for more details and to find the nearest Target location. I am so excited to tell you about our place because these are actually pans that I have had in my own kitchen for many years now and I was just looking at a friend who moved and I was thinking about getting her a housewarming gift and she loves the color green. She was like sharing all these green inspo pictures for her kitchen and I was like I know exactly what I want to buy her. And it was a set of pans from Our Place. Our Place is a mission driven and female founded brand that makes beautiful kitchen products that are healthy and sustainable. They're also beautifully designed and they have these amazing colors that feel like art and objects in your kitchen and it really helps elevate any home to make you feel creative while you're cooking. They also have a new Wonder oven. It's the market's most stylish air fryer and toaster oven in one. So find out why our place has over 75,000 five star reviews on their award winning products and they've been mentioned in New York Times, Bon Appetit and more. That's why you see Our Place in everyone's kitchen from Selena Gomez to David beckham. Go to fromourplace.com and enter my code Mariana at checkout to receive 10% off sitewide. That's from our place.com code Mariana M A R I A N N A Our place offers 100 day trial with free shipping and returns. I think one of the things that probably a lot of people can relate with is we know the decision we're supposed to make. We just have a hard time following through or speaking up for ourselves. So let's say we've been doing this work, we listen to our inner navigation, we know the thing we want to do. How do we actually follow through with it?
- [13:23]
B
Yeah, this is always the tricky part. And one thing I want to be careful of though is the language you said. And just to make sure that I'm clear, you said we know the thing we're supposed to do and supposed to and should is typically a sign that it's actually not authentic for us. So for example, I should stay at Google because it's good for my career or I'm supposed to stay at Google because it's good for my career. That would be, you know, an external cue as opposed an external norm that I was upholding as opposed to my authentic true self feeling, which was I should, you know, I want to quit Google. That's not aligned for me. So we want to be careful with the supposed to and the should. But I think what you were alluding to was we know the aligned warmer True self decision which is in I think where you're coming from, the supposed to meaning the decision that is authentic for us. There's something that I call the fulfillment test. And there are four things we can look for in any decision that we're making to see if it's something that is actually going to be fulfilling. In other words, aligned and coming from our true authentic self, something that we actually want to do versus something that we think we should do. And one of those things is obligation. This should. So that's always something we want to look. For example, I often give of this is when I was at Google and I knew I didn't want to be there anymore, but I didn't know what else to do. I decided I was going to go to business school and so I was going to take the gmat. And I tend to be a pretty good study or test taker. I'm pretty disciplined. When I say I'm going to do something, I usually do it. I bought the book, signed up for the class and I could not get myself to study for it and I couldn't figure out what was going on. In hindsight, it was something that I thought I should do, go to business school, take the GMAT and not something that I actually wanted to do. It was not actually aligned or directionally right for me in my life. And that's why I was having such resistance to doing it. But there's another kind of resistance, right? Which is the resistance when it is something you really really want to do and you're having trouble because you're scared. And that is often going to come up when it's something that is really important to us and when it's something that is really big and aligned for us, we sort of stall because the stakes feel high and it feels really important. And our fear self, which is really there to protect us from vulnerability and uncertainty, right. It doesn't realize that actually, you know, starting the business or writing the book or you know, applying for the new job or asking someone out on a date or whatever the thing may be, while that feels vulnerable and uncertain and scary, it's not actually life threatening which was the original purpose of our fear self. So what to do when we're in a situation where it is something you really want to do, you're so sure that it's not a GMAT scenario where it's something you do really want to do, but you're scared or you're having trouble for whatever reason. This is where the philosophy of directional living makes Life so much easier. And the analogy, one of the best ways to articulate directional living is actually a quote from EL Doctorow, and he was talking about, he was a writer and he was talking about writing a novel. But I think it actually applies equally to life, which is it's like driving a car at night. You can only see as far as the headlights in front of you, but you can make the whole trip that way. And the point here is that we only need to see as far as the headlights in front of us. So we typically get stuck with big projects that we especially when we really want to do them, because we think we need to be able to envision exactly where we're going and exactly how we're going to get there before we can begin, instead of realizing, great, I have a sense of my big direction, I have a sense of where I'm going, but I only need to see the headlights in front of me in order to begin. So we want to look for the smallest next directionally right aligned action we can take. So if it's something even as big as starting a company, you might want to have a conversation or Google starting a company or read a book or get more, you know, go to a panel where there's another founder who has experience in the industry you want to start or, you know, send an email to someone to see if you can have a conversation with them about their experience in the industry you're thinking about. So again, it's thinking about just the headlights. And I say this to myself still very often, just the headlights. And I actually have what I call the Aligned action formula, which is a very, very simple formula for when you really are stuck of how to sort of get yourself into motion. Because often once we're in motion, once we have momentum, it's a lot easier to keep going. And it's again, it's sort of like advice, like drinking water that feels so obvious that it feels like it can't be true. And it's almost annoying that it is. But the way I think about how to get myself or get one into motion is this five step aligned action formula. So the first thing is to how I say screenshot your mind, which is to notice the idea. Often we don't even let ourselves consider ideas that feel scary. So the first thing is to notice it, to even notice that you're thinking it. Maybe it's to start a podcast is the example I use in my book. Often you might not even allow yourself to have that thought long enough to consider it. You may Instead say, well, I don't have any experience that, or nobody wants to hear what I have to say, or what would I even talk about, or I'm too busy or I don't have enough money, or whatever the things are. And you never actually engage with that thought. So screenshotting it is the idea of being actively engaged with your ideas. That's step one. Once you do that, the next step is to say it out loud. So this is to say it to anyone, including writing it down. So write it down, say it out loud to a friend, a coach, a therapist, whomever it is that you feel comfortable articulating the idea to. But that's the key in step two is articulating the desire. So you screenshot it, you notice it. Then two, you articulate it. The third one is to do some research on it. So again, this isn't the old days where you go to the library and look in a card catalog. This is as simple as googling it and looking up anything and just allowing the search results to inspire you and going down that rabbit hole. The fourth one is to have a conversation. So again, reach out to anyone who might have one iota of information, more than you do about whatever that thing is. It doesn't have to be the ultimate solution. And then the fifth step is to take an action, any action. So once you've gone through those four steps before screenshotting the idea, and then the three active, engaging steps, you are looking for whatever the next aligned action is. So that might be doing more research, that might be following up with the person you had a conversation with, introduced you to, or taking a class or whatever. The thing is, those steps should introduce you to the fifth step and then you plug it in and start again. So it's a pretty straightforward formula, but the idea here is that it helps you focus on what those headlights are.
- [20:43]
A
And once you've got these steps down, I know that fear is a really significant barrier for so many people. So how do you help your clients overcome that fear to actually take these steps and put them into action?
- [20:55]
B
Yeah, so this is one of the most challenging and the most exciting phases, and it really depends on what you're sort of unique fear self says or articulate what sort of beliefs they connect to. So again, one of the easiest ways to get around the fear self is actually to take really small steps that don't alarm it. So for example, let's go to the podcast analogy. If your fear self is really scared of starting the podcast, you can say sort of to Yourself and to your fear self. Well, I'm not starting a podcast. I'm just having a conversation with someone about starting a podcast or I'm just taking a class. I'm not making the whole trip. I'm just taking this one step, and if it's still scary or it doesn't sound like a good idea, then I can stop. So really, just focusing on that step instead of the outcome is one of the easiest sort of anxiety reducers that there is, where you're just focusing on that single next thing, and that is usually not that alarming or triggering to that fear self. But we also want to look on sort of like a bigger level. And, you know, with clients, one on one, I'm always looking at what are the underlying beliefs that are coming up over, over and over again in many of the things. So we can start to address those. But that's sort of a much more detailed look and kind of the AP advanced level. So I think the other thing that I would also suggest, there are a few exercises. One is called what I call the Fear Flowchart. And this is really getting into the nitty gritty of what that fear is. So, okay, what happens if I start a podcast and it goes terribly, what am I afraid of? There's. So your first thought might be, you know, people won't listen to it, so then you want to ask another question, then what? Okay, so what? So then people don't listen to it, and then I am embarrassed. Okay, then what? I'm embarrassed. And then I lose all my friends, and then I am alone, and then I'm depressed, and then I can never get another job again. And then I'm, you know, homeless and depressed and broke, and I die alone. And so again, and I mean that, you know, sort of laughing. But the way that this helps is that our fear self is almost always jumping all the way to that end result of basically dying alone. And when you can see it that way, it's a lot easier to break down the fear where you're like, yeah, so starting a podcast does not equal dying alone. And that's actually what our fear self is sort of making the connection to. And so when we can dismantle that a bit, it's a lot easier to move forward and to see that that is not actually a realistic, realistic fear. But that's. That, of course, you don't want to take that action if the belief unconsciously is that starting the podcast is going to lead to dying alone. So that's another exercise that you can.
- [23:52]
A
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- [26:57]
B
Yeah. So a big part of directional living is not attaching to outcomes. And by this I also mean sort of co creating with the world around you. So let's go back to the driving with the headlights analogy. The benefit of doing sort of a road trip directionally is that you can be responsive to your internal and external environment. So if there is an avalanche and a road closes, or there's a storm, or you just see something on the side of the road that you really want to stop and go on a detour towards? You can do all of those things when you're only thinking about the next step in front of you. If you were taking a destinational road trip, that would mean that you had this itinerary that was down to a T that you had to follow. But what happens when there is an accident and the road is closed and you can't follow your itinerary anymore? If you're living or driving destinationally, you're sol right? There's nothing you can do because you haven't figured out, you haven't practiced the skill of being able to reroute. So what this has to do with making a career change where it's not, you know, totally in your hands is that we can be responsive to the environment around us. Meaning if you. Usually when I have someone who's like, I really, you know, I want this thing and I'm trying, and I'm trying, I'm trying, it's not working, I will often want to look at what is the outcome that we're attached to. That doesn't mean that there isn't something really important in the goal, but maybe we can break it down and look for it in a slightly different way. So, for example, if someone. Often this happens when someone's like, I want to work at Google and I only want to work at Google, and that's the only thing I'm going to do, and that's my dream and I need to make it happen. I love persistence and determination. And some of this we may need to expand to. Like, okay, why is it that you want to work at Google? Maybe they're not hiring right now. That is out of your control. What is in your control? And what about that dream seems so compelling? Maybe it's that you want to work at a technology company. Okay, can we expand to, you know, and obviously this is a very sort of obvious example, but can we expand to other tech companies? Or is there some other aspect of Google that feels appealing to you? Can we expand in some other way? I typically find that we're looking for the path of most ease. And when I say ease, I don't mean easy necessarily. It can be very difficult. The work can be hard, but we don't want to be the one putting up our own barriers. And one of the ways that we often do that is by attaching to a specific outcome and then sort of banging our head against the wall. If we're on this directional road trip and there is a barrier up, no amount of willing ourselves to get through that barrier is going to make it work. That doesn't mean you can't get to, you know, you can't get to the destination that you want to go to, but you're going to have to find another way to get there. And also sometimes we're too close to it, right? This is where, you know, a friend or a coach or someone else can really come in handy. Because sometimes we have been in the dream for so long and we are so close to it that it's hard for us to see what another way to navigate would be. But I typically, I feel that most of the time, and my experience has shown me that most of the time when something isn't working, it's actually for our benefit. It's not happening to us, it's happening for us. And it's a good message for us to respond to. And again, sort of co create with what is actually happening in the world. And this allows us to be so much more flexible and adaptable when things do come up. This question gets asked a lot in context of like, it's a recession, should I leave my job? And again, when we're co creating and being responsive to the world around us, none of those external things will be the thing that blocks us.
- [31:18]
A
I think this was such a great, you know, little input into the beginning of your book because I think you can go so much deeper. So who is this book for and who do you want to help with this?
- [31:28]
B
I wrote this book to be what I, I needed and couldn't find when I needed it most. When I was, you know, as I say in the book, when I was literally and metaphorically on the bathroom floor having a panic attack at work on a Tuesday, when I was so lost, so ashamed, had no idea where to turn or what to do next. This book is for that person. And my hope is that no one will ever have to be in that scenario again. This is the guidebook and this will show you how to hopefully prevent that from happening in the first place. But if you do find yourself in that scenario, this will be the guidebook that can help you find your way out of that. And I wrote this book for people I call under fulfilled overachievers. And I'm the original under fulfilled overachiever. Under fulfilled overachievers are people who have checked all the boxes, done all the right things, often achieved everything. They've set out to have a great on paper life that doesn't feel so great inside and are sort of wondering like, how did I get here? Whose life is this that I'm living? And this book is for those people where you are an overachiever, but you're under fulfilled. And my hope and I also, by the way, this is the vast majority of us. For those of us who are who this resonates with, the important things to know about this is you are not alone and this is not your fault. Millennials and Gen Z are under fulfilled overachievers. Recent stats have shown that only about 30% of people in the latest poll by Gallup are engaged in their work. Less than half of Americans feel that their work makes a meaningful contribution to the world. And and another poll showed that only 17% of people feel that find meaning in their work. And that is a vast drop from when it was almost double only a few years ago. So this is the majority of us and it comes from the fact that we were fed a lie. The traditional approach to career has completely failed us and it has told us that success equals fulfillment. In other words, the way to become fulfilled is to be successful. And many of us did that, followed those rules, followed that playbook, found success on paper, and found that it did not lead to fulfillment. And so directional living is the way out of that. The reason we ended up under fulfilled overachievers is because we have been living destinationally. We've been focused on the outcome on the destination, on climbing the ladder, on the ten year plans where we're reverse engineering our lives and doing what we think we're supposed to do and following conventional norms as opposed to again, living directionally and following just the headlights in front of us. And so my hope with this book again is that this will be a guide for anyone who is feeling lost or stuck either just a little bit around the edges or like you need to blow up your whole life. That this will be a guide show you how to move out of that in a very practical and grounded and step by step way. It's both a philosophy and a framework on how to both think about this transition and a new paradigm for us all to think about the way that we work and live as well as on an individual basis. A way for us to make shifts in our own lives.
- [35:05]
A
I can't wait for our listeners to read this book and get a copy of it and congratulations and hopefully this points them all in the right direction.
- [35:13]
B
Thank you so much Mariana.
- [35:15]
A
Thanks so much for listening and be sure to subscribe to my podcast and rate and review because it would mean so much to me. And follow me on Instagram ariannahewitt to see what episodes are coming up next.
- [35:36]
B
Please note that this episode may contain.
- [35:38]
A
Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.
- [35:41]
B
Individuals on the show may have a.
- [35:43]
A
Direct or indirect financial interest in products.
- [35:46]
B
Or services referred to in this episode.