How to Repair Damaged Hair — with Crown Affair Founder Dianna Cohen

Summary

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Lipstick on the Rim – Episode Summary

Podcast: Lipstick on the Rim
Host: Molly Sims & Emese Gormley
Episode: How to Repair Damaged Hair — with Crown Affair Founder Dianna Cohen
Date: November 11, 2025
Guest: Dianna Cohen, Founder of Crown Affair

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the world of hair health, hair rituals, and repairing damaged hair, with special guest Dianna Cohen, founder of Crown Affair. Cohen shares the brand’s philosophy, offers myth-busting haircare advice, and provides actionable tips and memorable stories from her journey in the beauty industry. Lively, funny, and candid, the conversation covers product innovation, healthy hair habits, the importance of ritual, and how to give your hair the love it deserves—every day.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dianna Cohen’s Background and Journey (05:20–08:26)

• From Marketing to Founder:
  Cohen shares her history as an early employee at Into the Gloss, Away, and Harry’s, and as a marketing agency owner, before launching Crown Affair in 2020.
• The “Comment Section” Mindset:
  She attributes her passion to active engagement with beauty communities and values feedback over “legacy” industry experience.
• Brand Inspiration:
  The disconnect between salon-quality experiences and at-home haircare drove her to create a brand focused on ritual and healthier options.

“I always joke that I was born in the comment section… That’s where the real tea is. That’s where people actually say what they want.”
— Dianna Cohen, (06:41)

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2. Birth & Name of Crown Affair (08:26–10:26)

• Why “Crown Affair”?
  Inspired by the film The Thomas Crown Affair and the powerful symbolism of “the crown” (top of your head).
• Personal Connection:
  Cohen and her husband even met in front of the painting featured in the movie.

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3. Major Myths about Hair Care—Busted (10:31–13:12)

Sulfates & Shampoo Frequency

• Sulfates Overstrip Hair:
  The “squeaky clean” feeling is deceptive and damages hair (11:38).
• Shampooing Less Isn’t Bad:
  Overstripping leads to more oil production—akin to using harsh facial cleanser.
• Conditioners:
  People fear heaviness, but innovative formulas (like Crown Affair’s gel-based conditioner) offer new options.

Dry Shampoo Dangers

• Aerosol Woes:
  Aerosol dry shampoos can create buildup and itchy scalps (12:50).
• Retraining Your Scalp:
  Switching to non-aerosol, powder-based dry shampoo can “retrain” follicles to be less oily and gentler for the hair and scalp.

“Think about putting an aerosol dry shampoo on your face three days in a row and not washing it—like that’s what you’re doing to your scalp!”
— Dianna Cohen, (12:58)

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4. Product & Ingredient Philosophy (17:46–19:15)

• Clean Beauty Reality:
  “Clean” is now a basic requirement—formulation quality and minimizing damage is more important.
• Key Ingredients to Avoid:
  “I’m anti-sulfates… If you’re using anything powder-based—not just in hair—no talc. We don’t want talc in any of these products.” (17:58)
• Wardrobe Approach:
  Just like makeup, you can have “special occasion” products (like a heavy-hold spray) alongside your everyday gentle staples.

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5. How to Use Hair Oil & Overnight Serum (19:16–21:54)

• Confusion Around Oils:
  Many oils are too heavy for fine hair; Tsubaki seed oil (used by Crown Affair) is lightweight and doesn’t weigh hair down.
• Overnight Repair Serum:
  Created for busy people—no rinsing required, leaves no residue, clinically repairs damage, and is especially helpful for color-treated hair.

“I’ve been calling it ‘princess hair’… it’s like good things can happen overnight.”
— Dianna Cohen, (20:51)

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6. Brushing, Towel-Drying & Other Underestimated Habits

(21:29–25:47)

• Brushing Routine:
  Daily brushing moves oils down the shaft, strengthens hair, and acts like scalp exfoliation.
• Towel-Drying:
  Use a dedicated hair towel (not a body towel!) to avoid breakage and frizz; waffle towels absorb better and prime hair for styling.

“The myth of brushing 100 strokes a day—it’s not that you need 100, but even 50 at night moves the natural, healthy oils from scalp to strand.”
— Dianna Cohen, (22:37)

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7. Tools, Air-Drying, and Texture (25:47–27:43)

• Air Dry for the Win:
  Cohen favors air drying with mousse for a relaxed, modern look (what she calls “Olsen texture”).
• Tools & Formulas:
  Crown Affair heat-styling products include heat protectant; they avoid alcohol to keep hair and tools clean.
• TikTok Hair Hacks:
  She cringes at overnight rod curls and prefers easy twist-and-clip methods for natural waves.

“I’m a high maintenance girl to be low maintenance.”
— Dianna Cohen, (26:38)

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8. Ritual vs Routine: The Power of Intention (34:33–35:34)

• Rituals vs Routine Game:
  Cohen distinguishes rituals (meaningful, for self-care) from routine (default, less mindful actions)—emphasizing the importance of treating haircare as nourishing, intentional time.

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9. Product & Scent Innovation (32:31–34:28)

• Signature Scent Development:
  Inspired by a blend of “Kate Moss in Japan in the 70s” with sparkling citrus, green tea, and woodsy amber—crafted to layer with personal fragrances, not overwhelm.
• Her Scent Secret:
  She wanted a “mood, not just a fragrance.”

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10. Regional and Seasonal Hair Tips (37:20–38:40)

• Miami Humidity vs New York Winter:
  Frizz = hair reaching for moisture; using leave-in on DRY hair (even in humid climates) helps control frizz.
• Water Quality Matters:
  Adjust in-shower routines based on city, but post-shower rituals go a long way in maintaining consistent hair health.

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11. Quickfire Favorites

(30:26–36:28)

• Holy Grail Product:
  Dry Shampoo (“to the grave!”).
• Styling Hack:
  Daily scalp massages, regardless of hair type, promote growth and vitality.
• This or That:
  • Air Dry or Blow Dry? “Air dry” (35:39)
  • Silk Pillowcase or Microfiber Towel? “Microfiber towel” (35:43)
  • Hair Oil or Hair Mask? Changes mind, but ultimately “Mask” (35:54)
  • Middle or Side Part? “Middle part” (35:57)
  • Best Day? “Second day texture” (36:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clean Beauty:
  “I think ‘clean’ is a product promise, not a brand pillar… It’s so table stakes at this point.”
  — Dianna Cohen, (17:58)

• On Daily Rituals:
  “So much of these things, like the hair serums, it’s about giving your hair love and attention… Your mindset matters and that’s kind of the first step to taking better care of your hair.”
  — Dianna Cohen, (30:35)

• On Growing Up with Hair Rituals:
  “My hair was always this security blanket for me, so I really learned how to take care of it and create rituals around it.”
  — Dianna Cohen, (08:26)

• On Product Development:
  “Being a non-professional stylist, my whole life is dedicated to getting one more day before wash day.”
  — Dianna Cohen, (14:10)

• On Miami Hair Tips:
  “Frizz is literally your hair reaching to the sky for more moisture—so you gotta give it a drink!”
  — Dianna Cohen, (37:36)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Time | Topic | Details/Speaker | |-----------|--------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 05:20 | Dianna’s career beginnings & comment section insights | Dianna Cohen | | 08:26 | Crown Affair’s launch & the Google Doc | Dianna Cohen | | 10:31 | Name origin: The Thomas Crown Affair | Dianna Cohen | | 11:38 | Myth busting: Sulfates and shampoo | Dianna Cohen | | 12:50 | Dry shampoo retraining your scalp | Molly Sims & Dianna Cohen | | 17:46 | Ingredients to avoid; the “wardrobe” philosophy | Dianna Cohen | | 19:16 | How (and why) to use hair oil & overnight repair | Dianna Cohen | | 21:29 | Brushing & its benefits | Dianna Cohen | | 23:38 | Towel drying & best practices | Emese & Dianna Cohen | | 25:47 | Air drying, mousse, and best texture | Molly Sims & Dianna Cohen | | 26:14 | TikTok hacks that make Dianna cringe | Dianna Cohen | | 30:26 | Crown Affair’s #1 product | Dianna Cohen | | 30:35 | Daily scalp massage: the FREE hack “everyone can do” | Dianna Cohen | | 32:31 | The story behind the scent | Dianna Cohen | | 34:33 | Ritual or Routine rapid fire | All | | 37:36 | Miami vs New York haircare | Dianna Cohen | | 38:40 | Advice to her 10-year-old self | Dianna Cohen |

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Final Takeaways & Useful Nuggets

• Hair health is a total-body mindset:
  Product alone isn’t enough; daily TLC and treating haircare as a ritual strengthens your relationship to your own beauty.
• Be ingredients-savvy:
  Avoid sulfates and talc daily, but allow room for functional, “special occasion” products.
• Brushing and towel-drying:
  These simple rituals can make a visible difference in health and manageability.
• Embrace air-drying:
  With the right prep (mousse, towel, leave-ins), you can get cooler, lived-in hair days.
• Love your hair, love yourself:
  It’s about more than just looks—hair rituals are a form of self-care and kindness.

“You are enough.”
— Dianna Cohen (Advice to her 10-year-old self, 38:47)

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For more from Dianna and Crown Affair, follow them on Instagram, and check out the current gift-with-purchase collaboration with Wise Beauty.

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Transcript

[Molly Sims]

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[Diana Cohen]

Beauty.

[Emisha Gormley]

And by that, we mean everything that makes you look and feel beautiful.

[Molly Sims]

We're calling on our favorite health experts, industry insiders and friends to answer all.

[Emisha Gormley]

Your beauty questions with a drink in hand.

[Molly Sims]

Definitely with a drink in hand.

[Emisha Gormley]

You're listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims. So on this episode, I am on the west coast, Amisha is on the east coast, and we haven't talked to each other this morning. We have no idea what we're wearing, and we come to work in the exact same Alex Dubohaime polka dot shirt.

[Molly Sims]

It's hysterical. I literally was like, hold on, are you wearing the same shirt? I am?

[Emisha Gormley]

Okay, so we wanted to do something really fun this episode because so many women complain about their hair. It's basically like the Hair Diaries. And I'm gonna ask you because I don't know if you remember what.

[Diana Cohen]

Oh, oh. Do you? Do you?

[Emisha Gormley]

Do you remember? I knew what was the worst thing you ever did to your hair.

[Molly Sims]

You actually really helped me through it. I decided to dye my beautiful blonde hair brown. And I was convinced that it looked amazing. And I ran to meet Molly at the shoe floor of Barney's. Rip RIP Barney's.

[Emisha Gormley]

We love you. We miss you, Akeem. We miss everything.

[Molly Sims]

And Molly looks at me and goes, like, wags her finger at me and goes like this. And I'm like, no, I think it looks great. And she's like, hold on. And she drags me to the window and looks at it and goes, nope, we have to fix this. Worst decision I ever made.

[Emisha Gormley]

But the problem also was that it was completely the same, like a single process. Like, there were no low lights, there were no highlights. There was no tone. It was just brown.

[Molly Sims]

And by the way, I had gone To Harry, Josh, of all people. I know.

[Emisha Gormley]

But I think Harry was just trying to be Harry.

[Diana Cohen]

Harry's amazing.

[Emisha Gormley]

Harry's just trying to make a look amazing. Speaking of a look, you guys, we are so excited because I am a huge fan. Emisha has been a huge fan. 2022 words. Crown Affair came into our world, came into our diaries, and we could not be more excited to have you. Diana Cohen, welcome to Lipstick on the Rim. We have had so many Instagrams, DMs. Literally, what is happening with our hair? What should we do? What should we not do? Originally a marketer.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes, I am. Thank you for having me, by the way. Guys, I'm so excited to be here.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's so excited. You're beautiful. Your hair, of course, is amazing. I would expect, nonetheless, you started in marketing. You actually owned your own marketing agency.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, yeah. So it's. I've worked in consumer for over 15 years now. So I grew up in a really small town in South Florida and my dream was to move to New York and go to nyu. And I, I thought I wanted to work for Anna Wintour. I feel like every young girl who loves fashion, her dream is to be Andy Sax and the Devil Wears Prada. And by nature of the time that I went to college, I wanted to work for Anna Wintour. And by the time that I left college, I wanted to work for Emily Weiss.

[Emisha Gormley]

In the Gloss, baby.

[Diana Cohen]

Yep, into the Gloss. I was one of the first employees at ITG back in 2012 and 2013 just to kind of show you how much the landscape had changed and how much the Internet was becoming a thing. So I was one of the first employees at into the Gloss pre Glossier. I started my career there transcribing interviews. I always joke that those were like my Mr. Miyagi years of like wax on, wax off. Because transcribing interviews, setting up affiliate links, we were doing like native advertorial. I remember when brands would pay us money to feature it on the website and it was kind of this early reckoning of, you know, the old school legacy media and what was happening online. But before influencers, before all of that.

[Emisha Gormley]

You still had editors.

[Diana Cohen]

Still had editors. And it was honestly a really special time because everything was so authentic in terms of what people were honestly suggesting. And I always kind of joke that I was born in the comment section. Like, I'm not an ex corporate beauty executive who started a brand. Like to me, what was going down in the comments, which is kind of true today, by the way. I feel like I live for the comments on most things. That's where the real tea is. That's where people. You see what people want.

[Emisha Gormley]

You see what people want, and you also see how they feel about things. I love it. I don't like it. I wish it had X. I wish they could do this. Oh, my God. This has changed. This is my holy grail. Like, you will learn a lot in your DMs.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes. And that's why I love beauty so much. I'm sure you feel this way too. It's like the community around, taking care of ourselves and sharing these little secrets and what works for you. Like, I got. So I got bitten by the beauty bug then. And then I spent the next 10 years working as an early employee at consumer brands, like Away, the luggage company.

[Emisha Gormley]

You know, they're my favorite.

[Diana Cohen]

You. Yeah, I was the eighth employee there running Brandon Partnerships, which I learned so much. Honestly, like, that brand was so special to me because, honestly, I feel like unless you were buying, like, a really nice suitcase, like a Remova or Louis Vuitton, like, or Tumi, like, people didn't really think about their suitcase. So so much of that work was about creating a brand world where it started to become part of your identity. And that really informed a lot. I worked with an activewear company, Outdoor Voices. I worked with Harry's. I launched their women's lines. Harry's Love. They're the guy. The founders there are amazing. I learned so much about leadership from them. So I was in the trenches for over a decade before launching Crown Affair. And I had my own brand agency where I was working with Harry's, I was working with Buck Mason, a men's brand out here, a ton of different businesses, and I got to learn a lot. And through that decade before actually launching my own brand.

[Emisha Gormley]

And you said you saw a white space, you had a problem. Crown affair was born 2020.

[Diana Cohen]

So it started with a Google Doc, actually. I had a bunch of girlfriends who were like, I have this whole thing called no makeup, makeup hair, which is for the people like us who. Don't get me wrong, I love a professional stylist blowout, the full done look. But I realized that so many of my most impressive girlfriends had no idea how to do their hair at home. And after years, honestly, I grew up with a mom who, like, would brush my hair every night. Growing up in South Florida, your hair gets exposed to, like, a lot of chlorine, a lot of salt water, a lot of French braids, a lot of French braids. All of it like you're. And I played sports growing up, so, you know, and truthfully, I didn't have great skin growing up either. So my hair was always this kind of, like, security blanket and protection for me. So I really learned how to take care of it and create rituals around it. So the white space that I saw was the disconnect between I really want beautiful salon products. Right. I'm spending all this money on my haircut. I'm spending all this money on my hair. What am I actually using at home? And the truth is, is a lot of those products are not necessarily the healthiest for you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Which we want to get into, like, the whole myth thing.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Quick question. Emisha and I, we. We love names. Crown affair. Love the name.

[Diana Cohen]

I think you might know where it.

[Molly Sims]

Comes from the movie. Right? It has to come from the movie.

[Emisha Gormley]

Does it really come from the movie?

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah. So this is.

[Molly Sims]

That's what I thought.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah. So it comes from the Thomas Crown affair. So the 1999 version. I also love the 62 version with Stephen McQueen and Faye Dunaway as well. But the 99 version is one of my favorite films of all time. In the 99 version, the Renee Magritte's Son of a Man is the painting. That's a huge part of the plot and the narrative. So my husband and I actually met in front of that painting many years ago. But years later, I remember being in a workout class, and the instructor told everyone in the room to lift through the crown, and everybody just, like, stood up on their Reformers a little bit taller. And I was like, oh, it's so powerful, the crown. And we talk about the crown of your head. So more literally, it's a love affair with your crown. But it is a nod to the Thomas Crown Affair.

[Emisha Gormley]

I love it.

[Diana Cohen]

Which they're coming out with another version. Version, by the way, I heard.

[Emisha Gormley]

I'm really excited.

[Molly Sims]

Me too.

[Diana Cohen]

Okay.

[Emisha Gormley]

Myth busting. We love it. Let's break it down. What are some of the big. The biggest misconceptions about hair care? You wish people would stop believing.

[Diana Cohen]

Okay, let's talk about shampoo for, like, one minute. Because I feel like people are really afraid of shampoo, particularly men, by the way. They're like, I don't want to shampoo my hair. So in the 80s, they started adding in all these sulfates to create that, like, squeaky clean lather. Like, think about a 90s shampoo commercial. And. Right.

[Emisha Gormley]

And you had more lather than. Than anything you've ever seen, truly.

[Diana Cohen]

And, you know, they gave the instructions, lat rinse, repeat, and the repeat used to have an intention. There was an intention where you would do a double cleanse to really lift all of that. But they've put so many chemicals in these products that it ends up overstripping the hair. And think of when you have a face cleanser and you have a cleanser that makes your face tight, you end up overproducing oil. That ends up happening all the time. So people get in these like, wash and repeat cycles of like over stripping their hair. So basically you're drying out, drying your hair out. Or like conditioners. People are afraid. They're like, it can be really heavy. So we actually make a volumizing conditioner that's a gel based conditioner. Think of gel moisturizer instead of a cream moisturizer. So a lot of what we do is innovation around how people actually talk and how we're solving problems for what we're, you know, how we're actually using product or dry shampoo. I mean, aerosols. I could talk about myths on aerosols.

[Molly Sims]

Don't get me started on dry shampoo. Okay.

[Emisha Gormley]

That is my emisha is a die hard die shampoo. Stopped for a little while.

[Molly Sims]

I will say I. What you just said, I think resonates with so many listeners and for myself because I used to have to wash my hair all the time because it would just, it, it perpetuated, right? Like I would get oily and then it would get oilier and then it would get oilier and I became a dry shampoo aficionado. And I will say that your dry shampoo has been my favorite for years now because I love the smell of it. I love the applicator, I love that there's not an aerosol because sometimes I would use the aerosol ones and it would actually make my hair look wet and sticky. And yours is amazing and it's great for travel. So like, I just, it actually helped me retrain my scalp. And I think that's something that people don't think about when it comes to dry shampoo is how important it is to like literally retrain your follicles to not produce as much oil.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes, exactly.

[Emisha Gormley]

I love that you say the same way you can over strip your face is the same way you can over strip your scalp. And then you're just making oil and making oil and making oil.

[Diana Cohen]

Correct. No. And think about like putting an aerosol dry shampoo on your face three days in a row and not washing it. Like that's what you're doing to your scalp.

[Emisha Gormley]

We would do that.

[Diana Cohen]

I know, I know. Low key. It's like, you.

[Molly Sims]

And then I'd be like, why is.

[Diana Cohen]

My scalp so itchy? Why. Why do I feel like my hair.

[Emisha Gormley]

Is gonna break off at any moment?

[Diana Cohen]

But the funny thing, and I'm sure you feel this too, is you develop product. The story of the dry shampoo happened when I was actually working it away. I used to, you know, long hours in an office. I used to go for dinner and drinks after, and I used to have, like, a little baby aerosol dry shampoo in my desk drawer. I went to reach for it. I was totally out of it. So I was like, your girl needs to dry shampoo her hair right now. So I grabbed my Laura Mercier translucent powder and a kabuki brush, and I put it in my hair. And first I was like, this is so silky and delicious and doesn't feel, like, gritty or, I don't know, didn't leave dissolved perfectly. It, like, fully blended. The translucent one, the translucent powder.

[Emisha Gormley]

I have it in there.

[Diana Cohen]

It's so good. And then the kabuki brush, I was like, this is so intentional. And it really, like, I can go seven days.

[Emisha Gormley]

Well, it's small, so you're not like. Like, you can just, like, lift it up, put it underneath. Like, sometimes I feel like what she was saying about the aerosol, like, it gets in your face. It gets on your, like, areas where you don't really need.

[Molly Sims]

I would say that baby powder was a big thing to help absorb. Like, I think I used baby powder when I was in a pinch.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes. It's that it's, like, elevated, clean, better for you baby powder. And honestly, it's one of the cool things with not being a professional stylist and coming from, like, marketing and brand building is, like, I really think about how we actually move through the world. And my whole life is kind of dedicated to getting one more day before wash day. So I don't think about formulating things for, like, this is a perfect look we're achieving in this moment, and you're done. It's like, okay, what does the rest of my day look like? And am I gonna go work out in the morning? Am I picking up kids?

[Emisha Gormley]

What.

[Diana Cohen]

What does my day look like? How do I formulate products that actually help me move through the world and, like, get me one more day and make my hair look amazing?

[Emisha Gormley]

Okay, confession time. I'm a total carb girl. I love carbs. But here's the thing. I still want to feel good about what I'm eating. That's why I'm obsessed with Herobred. I don't know if you guys have heard it, but it's all the comfort food you love, but with the nutrition that actually fits with my goals without feeling like I'm giving up anything. Herobread covers all the bases. Sliced bread, tortillas, bagels, dinner rolls, and now Hero noodles. Oh that's right. Yes, noodles. They have more protein and 60% fewer calories than the best selling noodles. We're talking 5 grams net carbs, zero sugar, 12 grams of protein and 32 grams of fiber per serving. And guess what? They taste amazing. Emisha and I love them. Honestly, the first time I tried Herobread I was a little bit shocked. The texture is soft, fluffy and exactly what you expect from your favorite bakery bread. Their bagels are my weekday breakfast lifesaver and their noodles. Oh my God. My kids have been requesting Mac and cheese every night. What I love most is there is no compromise. It's ultra low net carbs, high in fiber and zero sugar, but you'd never know it from the taste. Herobred is offering 10 off your first order. Go to Hero Co. Use code Lipstick at checkout. That's lipstick. R O.co we just talked with Dr.

[Molly Sims]

Shelby Harris about all things sleep and one of her biggest takeaways was to remove distractions in your bedroom and make it feel like a true sanctuary. For me, one of the easiest ways I've done that is by investing in high quality bedding from Bol and Branch Fun Fact, a Jersey Summit based company. I'll be honest, I never used to think about swapping out bedding with the seasons, but now I'm convinced it's the ultimate fall reset. Their bed bundles make it so effortless you get everything you need to transform your bed. I went with the bundle that included their waffle, blanket and organic sheets and I swear I could feel the quality the second I unbox them. They're soft, breathable and somehow get cozier after every wash. What I love most is how curated it feels. You can pick a bundle depending on your needs, whether you're refreshing just your sheets all in with a full transformation and every single piece is crafted from the finest 100% organic cotton. Since upgrading, I am sleeping deeper, waking up more refreshed and honestly, I just love climbing into bed every night. If you've ever wanted your bed to feel like the best part of your home, this is it. Bowl and branch makes upgrading your bed easier than ever. With curated Bundles for a sanctuary of comfort For a limited time, get 20% off bed bundles plus free shipping and returns@bol and branch.com lipstick. That's bowl and branch. B O L L a n d branch.com lipstick to save 20% and unlock free shipping exclusions apply. So I have a question for you. You, you talked about like what people should be looking for. What are some ingredients that like right off the bat, just for every listener that's listening right now, look out for these ingredients because you don't want them in your hair product.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, so I, first and foremost I'm, I'm like kind of anti villainizing ingredients and I think clean is a product promise, not a brand pillar. Like I think a lot of brands go to market and like we're clean but it's like that's.

[Emisha Gormley]

Everybody's clean.

[Diana Cohen]

Everybody's. It's so table stakes at this point. And it's like formulate and create things that are safe and you. It's really about the quality of the products that are in it. However, I'm kind of ant I'm anti sulfates. I think sulfates overstrip and I think that in the culture they were just kind of put in a lot of the drugstore stuff to like make you feel like it's good for you. But over time there really is a lot of damage there. If you're using anything powder based, not just in hair, like no talc. We don't want talc in any of these products.

[Emisha Gormley]

Why?

[Diana Cohen]

It just, it causes buildup. It's not good for your scalp. Like they remove talc from a lot of the powders. Here's the thing though. I'm all about having a wardrobe across everything both in makeup and skin and hair care, everything. So like I call crown affair no makeup makeup because there are days like if I was doing it, not that I'm doing a dance recital, but like if I need a slick back to last for 14 hours, like I'm going to go grab that crazy aerosol hairspray, you know. And it's like those things exist and it's the same with makeup. Like I will grab that setting spray but I'm not using that every day. So so much of my vision with Crown Fair is like, I have amazing products that if I need my hair to do X, Y, Z in an intense way, they exist. It's like, let's build the no makeup makeup wardrobe. So it's not that these products are bad if their ingredients are bad, if you're using them Sparingly. It's about the daily thing that you want to be more careful with.

[Emisha Gormley]

You just launched your hair oil.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Tell us a little bit because what's the best way to use it correctly? Like how do you use it? Because I think a lot of people get confused.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, that's the thing, by the way. I think hair is just a confusing catego. People don't feel empowered when they're at home. They're like, how do I. So one, we use Tsubaki seed oil in all of our products. Which is. Which is a Japanese oil. So it's really lightweight. Like I have a fair amount of hair, but it's super fine. So if I put like an argan oil or coconut oil, it's just like clumpy. I gotta wash it again. So what I love about our products is they're super lightweight. I do a lot mid length through ends. Our overnight serum, which just launched, which is our first clinical formula. I actually formulated this as a love letter to my sister who's been dyeing her hair blonde for 25 years. And she was like, your sister? I know she's a. She's blonde. She lived in California forever. She's like, I'm. I've been trying to get her to like tone the blonde down, shout out to my sister. She's gonna listen to this and be like, I cannot believe you're talking about my hair. But she was over proteining her hair. She's like, it's breaking because I'm dyeing it. And the products she was using were just so would make the hair strong but stiff and break.

[Molly Sims]

Right. So I went to my.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, sorry.

[Emisha Gormley]

No.

[Diana Cohen]

Do you relate to this or you.

[Emisha Gormley]

We both.

[Molly Sims]

I do relate to it because I. So I actually was using up until. Because I got my hand on your overnight repair and I was prior to that using the leave in conditioner at night. I would literally smooth it into my ends and to maintain a blowout. And now with this, I feel like I wake up in the morning and my ends feel really silky since I've been using it.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah. But not greasy.

[Diana Cohen]

Not greasy, not greasy.

[Molly Sims]

It's amazing.

[Diana Cohen]

I've been calling princess hair. It's like good things can happen overnight. So.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah.

[Diana Cohen]

It's our first clinical formula. It doesn't have like heavy protein in it. It clinically repairs the hair. But I. My sister's busy, she's got two kids. She's like, don't have time to like do a mask and wash it out and like have this whole thing in the morning, she's like, I need you to make something for me that I can leave in, not rinse out. No residue, no transfer on the pillow.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's the rinsing out that I think gets people. Cuz I'm never going to rinse it out. I'm going to fall asleep and I'm not going to rinse it out.

[Diana Cohen]

Also, if you're someone who gets your hair done and you want to go like five day, whatever it is, it's like, yeah, I mean, that's the dry shampoo, the overnight repair serum. You like put those things in and they low key, hold me together as a person.

[Emisha Gormley]

You said brushing is one of the most underrated parts of hair health.

[Diana Cohen]

Do you guys brush your hair?

[Molly Sims]

I don't know.

[Emisha Gormley]

My producer Rosie wrote that and I was like studying the other night and I'm like, I don't know that I brushed my hair as much as I should.

[Diana Cohen]

Molly, we're gonna get you on a brushing routine.

[Emisha Gormley]

I know I did buy a really. Actually, I did not buy it. I got given a really good brush the other day and it's like a small little ivory and I'm like, this is like a. It's kind of heavy, but it's really cute and I love it. I can't think of it.

[Diana Cohen]

The dual bristle brush. The dual bristle, the nylon and bore. I mean, the Mason Pearson is the classic one that people know. It's like a 250 hairbrush. And in my original Google Doc, that's what I had in there. I was like, you need a brush for health and people give you eyeballs. If you don't know why you need a $250 hairbrush, people are like, why are you doing this? So we actually was one of my first vendors I reached out to. We work with a family in Italy that's been making brushes for 156 years. And they make our brush number one, which is a dual bristle brush. It's at a more accessible price point than the classic MP Mason Pearson, which I love and is still a hero. But our brush, you do it at night, just a couple strokes. I mean, you know the myth of like brushing your hair 100 strokes a day, right?

[Molly Sims]

Wasn't that it?

[Diana Cohen]

You don't need to do 100 strokes, but like, even 50 strokes at night, it moves the natural, healthy oils from the scalp to the strand. It helps keep the hair healthy strong. It also is like physical exfoliating. Like, think about, like all the dry brushing you do on your body. Same concept.

[Emisha Gormley]

Scarlet stuber, meaning my 10 year old daughter literally will have the healthiest hair. She brushes her hair.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes. She has her bonnet.

[Emisha Gormley]

I told you in the car a little while ago. She does the oil, she'll do the leave in treatment. She's nice.

[Diana Cohen]

This gives me hope for the next generation having a hair routine.

[Molly Sims]

By the way, I will just give a shout out to your leave in conditioner for kids. I use it every single morning with three girls to detangle their hair and it doesn't leave it greasy. It's like the best detangling conditioning treatment ever.

[Diana Cohen]

I love that. I love that. I always say like crown affairs for the whole family. Like my husband and I just have the crown affair in the middle of our bathroom counter because it's like unisex, it's gender neutral. The scent works for everyone. It's safe and good for kids. Like we love a multi purpose product for the whole fam.

[Emisha Gormley]

Towel drying. It's real.

[Diana Cohen]

It's real.

[Emisha Gormley]

I, I do it because I don't want as much heat.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

So I want to talk about towel drying and then I want to talk about tools.

[Diana Cohen]

Yes. Yes.

[Emisha Gormley]

Let's start with towel drying.

[Diana Cohen]

Okay. So we make a hair towel and I love it.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's like a waffle. It's so good.

[Diana Cohen]

It's so good. It has a strap in the back. We actually have a patent on the shape and design of it, which was one of the first things I worked on. It just won the Allure best of beauty award, which I'm excited about. We know how big those are. But it's like I always say this if someone feels overwhelmed by a hair care routine, like step number one, when you get out of the shower, put a towel on your head. It's going to help soak your hair as a fiber is really vulnerable when it's wet. So you want to take out that heavy dampness. You apply products, it's almost like having a primer before. If you apply or if you're using 100% cotton towel on your hair, you're going to, it's just not going to air dry the same. It's more freight, like frizz and breakage and it's heavy. I've been, I've traveled and like sometimes forgot my hair towel and there's nothing. There's no worse feeling than being like, I need to use a hotel towel on my hair right now. It really makes a difference. And I always joke sometimes guys will ask, they'll be like, what's the difference? I'm like, have you ever cooked meat with a. With like a meat thermometer? It's. That's the difference. Like, of course you can cook meat without a meat thermometer, but the second you use that, you're like, oh, it's. Turn it down a little temperature, and it's perfect. And I feel like that's kind of the hair towel. It's like, sure, you can dry your hair without a hair towel, but the second you use one, you're like, oh, I'm getting a much better dry air dry every single time now. It's very helpful.

[Emisha Gormley]

I love towel drying because that means I don't use as much heat.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah.

[Emisha Gormley]

It cuts down on. If I can really air dry it and really separate it and get it brushed out. I do not use as much heat when I'm actually either blow drying my hair or Emily's doing my hair. Someone's doing my hair. I telling you, the hair towel.

[Diana Cohen]

I.

[Emisha Gormley]

My hair is way more healthy because of that, too.

[Diana Cohen]

Well, yeah.

[Molly Sims]

And you actually feel like it looks better, too, for blondes. Like, I, I use. When I use the air dry mousse that you. It's like, I think it's called air dry mousse. I. To this day, I. Every time I use it and I let my hair air dry, I use the towel because it really makes. I think it helps with my frizz.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yes.

[Molly Sims]

And then I use the air dry. I get more compliments on my hair on those days than when I get a blowout upset.

[Diana Cohen]

Okay, hot take right now. And don't get me wrong, I love a blowout. I kind of think doing an air dry with the mousse is a cooler vibe. Like, I kind of call it that, like, Olsen texture. Like, you can go in beautiful. It's so beautiful. And it's such, like, it's it. That's the no makeup makeup. It's like you still need a little bit of makeup for no makeup. It's just the you but better vibe.

[Emisha Gormley]

Are there any hair hacks on TikTok that actually make you cringe? Because there are a lot of hacks on there.

[Molly Sims]

There.

[Diana Cohen]

Honestly, I. This. I'm going to get a lot of heat for this, but pun intended. I am not one of those, like, overnight hair rod girlies. I've tried all of them. They fall out. They look crazy. Here's the thing. I'm kind of. Even though I sound like I'm high maintenance, I'm actually a low maintenance. I'm a high maintenance girl. To be Low maintenance.

[Emisha Gormley]

But you went viral for the twist and clip.

[Diana Cohen]

My twist and clip. Which is during the day. I am awake when that happens. And after you get out of the shower, you. You like twist your hair back. My husband calls it my Lord of the Rings look. I like twist my hair to look like an elf and then I take it out and it gives it this beautiful wave.

[Emisha Gormley]

Done.

[Molly Sims]

Done.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, but the whole like rod in the hair thing is not my vibe.

[Emisha Gormley]

What kind of tools?

[Molly Sims]

What.

[Emisha Gormley]

What's your favorite? Hair dryer.

[Diana Cohen]

What's your favorite?

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, curling iron.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, so I use a wand. I have a T3 wand that I use and they have a really good one that spins. And I'll do air dry plastic plus, which is great. So all of our products are leave in included have a heat protectant already in them so you don't have to like add an extra step, which I love. But I'll do like a little wand in the front. I use a Dyson from time to time. I feel like sometimes at the roots that's just good. What I love about even like our mousse and stuff is we don't use alcohols in our products.

[Emisha Gormley]

So it doesn't dry out.

[Diana Cohen]

Exactly. And like the alcohol can get stuck in your hot tools. So if you're using like a hairspray or a mousse or something like that, you want something. I. That's why I formulated these is so they don't get stuck in the tools.

[Emisha Gormley]

That's so interesting. I didn't even think about that.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah, I didn't think about that either.

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah, the little things, guys. It's like the. The little things that add up over time.

[Molly Sims]

AG1 is a daily healthy drink that combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants into one simple green scoop. It's truly one of the easiest things you can do to support your body every single day. Day. I've been drinking AG1 first thing in the morning for a while now, and it's become such a part of my routine that I honestly don't even think about it anymore. I'll mix it up while I'm making coffee or getting the kids ready. It takes maybe 30 seconds and it makes me feel like I've actually done something good for myself before the day's even started. Especially this time of year when life feels extra busy with travel events and just trying to keep up. It helps me stay consistent and Grounded. The new AG1 Next Gen Formula has even more vitamins and minerals than before and is clinically shown to help fill common nutrient gaps. I just feel more balanced, more focused and ready to take on the day. What I love most is how easy it is. I usually pack a few travel packets in my bag and it's been a total lifesaver. During busy weeks. I rotate between citrus and tropical flavors, which are my favorite. AG1 has their best offer ever. Head to drinkag1.com lipstick to get a free welcome kit, vitamin D3 and K2 and AG1 flavor sampler. And you'll get to try their new sleep supplement AGZ for free, which has been a total game changer for my night routine. That's $126 in free gifts for new [e-mail] lipstick if you've listened to our.

[Emisha Gormley]

Holiday Gift Guide episode a couple weeks ago, then you know Emisha and I consider holiday shopping a sport and one of our go to places for finding the perfect gifts is Macy's. Macy's honestly makes it so easy, especially if you're down to the wire. They've curated gifts by Persona category and price point for the someone in your life who thinks they're a chef, the KitchenAid artisan stand mixer, one of a kind green pan cookware or classic Le Creuset Dutch Oven is truly the perfect gift. Okay for the homebody in your life. Ugg Hoodies slippers are the chef's kiss. And for your most stylish friend, you can't go wrong with the Sam Edelman Studded Ballerina flats or the Suede Coach bag. Plus, Macy's has amazing deals going on with the Macy's Great Gift Sale happening now through December 24th with up to 30 to 60% off gifts that truly don't disappoint. They're dropping new curated lists every day for kids, for her, for him. All the last minute lifesavers you can pop in store for a quick access or order online by 1221 at 5pm Eastern for guaranteed Christmas delivery. Maisie's Great Gift Sale happening now through December 24th with up to 30 to 60% off gifts that truly don't disappoint. What's your Holy Grail Crown Affair product? If you could only pick one.

[Diana Cohen]

One to the Grave Dry Shampoo?

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah, I agree. To the grave. Is there a hair styling or hair care trick or secret you can share with our listeners?

[Diana Cohen]

Honestly, this one doesn't. This is a free thing that everyone can do. I'm a very big believer in giving yourself a scalp massage every day, so Much of these things, like the hair serums and stuff, it's actually. There's a lot of science around just giving your hair love and attention. So, you know, using the pads of your fingers, giving yourself a scalp massage, like, there's so much science. You know, when you take care of a plant and you're like a little bit nicer to a plant, it grows better. I feel. I feel like being kind to yourself and your hair and giving it attention and not treating it as an afterthought is the biggest hack you can do because it will actually change the way you feel. Whether it's journaling, meditation, movement. It's like your mindset matters and that's kind of the first step to taking better care of your hair.

[Emisha Gormley]

What's your go to uniform or fashion piece that makes you feel most confident? Because now you're speaking on panels. You are the founder of a massive company. Right now it's probably Sephora Forest fastest growing company.

[Diana Cohen]

It's really funny because I did start in the trenches and I was not an external facing person. I'm a little more catch today. I do love a crown of hair green piece. I feel like wearing a brand color is helpful, but I love a blazer too. Like, I have a blazer over there and I feel like any moment. But honestly, I wear a lot of just pants tops, sweaters, blazers. I feel like I'm constantly. Oh, and a set is good, which I guess is technically like a suit. But I've been loving silk sets lately and just. I don't know.

[Emisha Gormley]

Who do you like?

[Diana Cohen]

There's a brand called COMC that makes really beautiful loungewear, but they also make a great silk set. Addersi is a brand that I love. They're actually doing a trunk show here in LA this week. They have amazing pieces. I also love, like, some beautiful pieces from the row Totem. I'm on the go. I'm sure you. You're traveling all the time.

[Molly Sims]

We can shop with you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah, we can shop.

[Diana Cohen]

What about shopping later?

[Molly Sims]

I think.

[Emisha Gormley]

Is it called Lisette?

[Diana Cohen]

Lisette's amazing too. Such good pieces. Yeah, I'm kind of like, like, I don't want to say simple pieces, but just like easy pieces you can mix and match. And honestly, I'm all about a good accessory, like a fun necklace or a sunglass or something like that is always good.

[Molly Sims]

Now let's talk about sense for a second because I will say one of my favorite things about Crown Affair is your signature scent. Thank you. So do you have a. I Want to know how you kind of came up with it and then also what your favorite scent is?

[Diana Cohen]

Yeah. Okay. So I'm obsessed with just fragrance in general, and I feel like. So actually, one of the first interviews I transcribed at into the Gloss was I'm always going to say his name wrong. Maison Francis Kirk, you who I'm talking about. That interview blew my mind. It was from 2012, and he talks about coming to New York for the first time and the different scents he was experiencing when he first came to New York. And really, that journey of how a set makes you feel is what I went in with. So before I even raised money, by the way, like, the first email I sent was to my dream fragrance house, because I knew how important scent is in hair. Like, I would interview people, and they're like, I use this because of the scent. So reach out to them. I didn't know what to say. I was just like, I want it to smell. I want Crown Affair to smell like Kate Moss is in Japan in the 1970s. And they came back. I mean, we went through 40 iterations of this scent, but what they came back with is this, like, top note of sparkling citrus, kind of like, fresh. The mid notes are like the Japanese. It's like calla lily green tea. And then the base notes are a little bit more woodsy and amber, which.

[Emisha Gormley]

Is what we love.

[Diana Cohen]

The 70s, kind of cool, funky. So I went in with a vibe. And I always say this to other founders. If you're not a trained nose, which I'm not, like, you just. And I feel like there's a musician who's like, launching a single is like dropping a mood, and that's what a scent is. It's like you're dropping a mood. And, you know, because it's hair, I wanted it to pair well with body fragrances. So for years, I've been wearing. I mean, a mix of fragrances. Like, I've been wearing Gypsy water for a long time, and so good. So, like, that was kind of my base, and I was like, I need it to smell incredible on its own, but also balance with whatever. And then hair is tricky. Like, your hair holds fragrance differently than your body. So I knew for me, I didn't want to go, like, gourmand, like, first. That's just not me. My personal taste, but also, like, it smell like you don't want something.

[Emisha Gormley]

You want something heavy.

[Diana Cohen]

Heavy in your hair especially.

[Molly Sims]

It needs to, like, linger, but, like, not smell overwhelming. Correct.

[Emisha Gormley]

Since you're all about creating rituals, we're Going to play a little game called ritual or routine. We'll name something and you tell us if it's a ritual, something meaning meaningful, or it's just a routine. Okay? Okay. Your morning coffee ritual.

[Molly Sims]

Your hair brushing ritual.

[Emisha Gormley]

Sunday night mask touch time ritual.

[Diana Cohen]

Getting dressed for work routine.

[Emisha Gormley]

Skincare before bed ritual. I'm proud of you.

[Diana Cohen]

Checking your phone when you wake up H, sadly, routine. I got to stop that. Everyone. I don't know about you packing for a trip routine. I have that down pat.

[Molly Sims]

Weekly blowout routine.

[Emisha Gormley]

I love. I love a weekly blowout. I'm not going to lie.

[Diana Cohen]

Life changing.

[Molly Sims]

I do too.

[Diana Cohen]

But you know, it's not like too much hair. It's not a ritual for me though. I feel like the rituals are the things that I. I do in my own sacred spaces where routine is like more external facing. Maybe that's why I'm answering that. Until I learn how to do a perfect blowout, I need someone else to do a perfect blowout on me.

[Emisha Gormley]

Okay, we're going to do the crown edit this or that. Just whatever comes to mind first. Air dry or blow dry?

[Diana Cohen]

Air dry.

[Molly Sims]

Silk pillowcase or microfiber towel?

[Diana Cohen]

Microfiber towel.

[Emisha Gormley]

100%, yeah. Hair oil or hair mask?

[Diana Cohen]

Hair oil.

[Molly Sims]

Really?

[Diana Cohen]

Oh, no, no, no. No mask. I changed my answer.

[Emisha Gormley]

I love the mask.

[Diana Cohen]

It's the best.

[Molly Sims]

Middle part or a deep side part?

[Diana Cohen]

I'm a middle part.

[Emisha Gormley]

Girly wash day ritual or second day texture?

[Diana Cohen]

Second day texture.

[Emisha Gormley]

We're like fourth, fifth day texture over here.

[Molly Sims]

Me too. Me too. I mean, let's talk seven, eight days.

[Emisha Gormley]

At one point she goes, I've gone nine days without. I was like, you're disgusting.

[Diana Cohen]

No, it's beautiful.

[Molly Sims]

I've gone 18 days.

[Diana Cohen]

Same, by the way, crown affair.

[Emisha Gormley]

That's weird.

[Molly Sims]

That's disgusting. There's probably skin floating in my head, but I also secretly loved it because it looked so good. It could stand like this. But it was all incredible.

[Emisha Gormley]

Do you remember when we had the summer of lice? Literally. Oh, my God. Yes, I remember it.

[Diana Cohen]

I was working. It was disgusting. Makes my hair itchy.

[Molly Sims]

Thinking about it two years ago.

[Emisha Gormley]

It was two years ago, so it doesn't matter, but it scarlet. They. Someone at school had it. They checked her. They sent her home. They said she didn't have it. She had it.

[Diana Cohen]

Spoiler.

[Emisha Gormley]

Spoiler alert. Gave it to like three families.

[Molly Sims]

No.

[Emisha Gormley]

So excited. Early morning ritual or nighttime wind down?

[Diana Cohen]

Early morning ritual.

[Emisha Gormley]

Ooh.

[Molly Sims]

Miami humidity or New York winter?

[Diana Cohen]

Neither. California dryness?

[Emisha Gormley]

Studio shoot, glam or off duty pumpkin Ooh studio shoot.

[Diana Cohen]

Glam.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah. I mean it's, it's, it's hard. Miami for the hair. My brother lives there. I'm going there in a few weeks.

[Diana Cohen]

It is the humidity.

[Emisha Gormley]

So let's talk a little bit about just before I let you go. What do you do? Do you. Are you more of a bun girl there? Do you use different products? You know, when you're in Miami and in the south that you do when you're in the north or in the west because it's more dry.

[Diana Cohen]

I have it down to an art and people are always like, I can't believe your hair looks this in Miami. And the truth is it's because I take care of it every single day. But frizz is literally your hair reaching to the sky for more moisture. Like it's literally lifting cuz it's like reaching so you got to give it a drink. So that's why I love the leave in specifically. I put leave in on dry hair all the time in Miami and in general everywhere that I am. And also if it's dry like I'm out here, it's think of like it like a moisturizer, you know, it hydrates the hair.

[Emisha Gormley]

I don't think people would think that to do that in Miami because it's so it feels wet, you know, it feels humid.

[Diana Cohen]

It actually helps keep it hydrated, so. So it's not lifting to the sky. But I also love a slick back too. That's why I love our gel because we don't use alcohols, you know, gel. It like leaves your hair crunchy, flaky. So I'll do a slick back at night if I'm going out and then I come home and I brush it out and I have a whole new routine. The main thing I would say when you're in different cities is really about the water and the water quality and different in shower products. But I think if you know your hair routine and your hair type, post shower like you can keep it pretty consistent that we always ask every guest.

[Emisha Gormley]

Before they go, if you could give advice to your 10 year old self, what would it be?

[Diana Cohen]

You are enough.

[Emisha Gormley]

You're amazing.

[Diana Cohen]

I.

[Molly Sims]

We are so, so amazing. And we're so grateful you founded Crown Affair. We love you.

[Diana Cohen]

Thank you.

[Molly Sims]

It's a staple in my house. My kids love it, I love it. Even my husband loves it.

[Diana Cohen]

So thank you both for doing this and making the time and space and you know, I love the pod. I've been a fan of the pod. Longtime call, longtime listener. First time caller and I feel like every time I leave with so many great tips and learnings and that's what we need. This is why I started in beauty. This is why I started.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's kind of what you started with. Hair is such, you know, I know for me when I'm, I'm actually having a good hair moment this year, it's such an identity, right? If you're not feeling great about it, if it's breaking, if it's thinning. And I think, you know, for someone like, I mean we're older than you, but like going through perimenopause, going through like different times of your life, like your hair is kind of like your security blanket and when it doesn't feel good or like even like a friend of ours got their haircut like 4 inches, I'm like, you look amazing and just kind of like refresh. So I think it's really. We love what you're doing. We love Crown Affair. Make sure and follow Crown Affair. Make sure and follow. Personally, you've also a great Instagram Ayanna Cohen with two N's. And just because we're us, we are very excited to share that Wise Beauty and Crown Affair are teaming up for a special gift with purchase right now. Starting today, you guys will receive exclusive travel size goodies when you shop from I their brand and spend $100. So go to wisebeauty.com or 75 crown affair.com from wise you'll get our travel exfoliating pads which are perfect for skin on the go and if you want the glow. And then from Crown Affair you're going to get my absolute favorite besides the, the dry shampoo, the texturizing air dry mousse which is honestly so good I can't even.

[Molly Sims]

It's like if you need a good hair day, that's what you to use.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah, I'm excited and she's been incredible with like giving me advice with being a first time founder because it's, it's a roller coaster.

[Diana Cohen]

It's a roller coaster. It's, it's honestly one of my favorite parts is the community that we have as beauty founders, as Sephora founders. Like I think from the outside you're like what is this? And then you get in it and you're like, oh, we are in this together. And you know, this is the world I came from. Right. I've worked in consumer for so long so I love collaborating and there's just so much we can learn from each other. So we've got Each other. We're in this together. Together.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean. Okay, go. Thank you, Diana. We love you.

[Diana Cohen]

Thank you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Love you.

[Molly Sims]

Thank you so much.

[Emisha Gormley]

I mean, I honestly, I'm thinking officially about rethinking my hair routine.

[Molly Sims]

My takeaway from talking to Diana is, like, actually treating my hair as part of a ritual. Like, I think I have so many skincare rituals and beauty rituals, but hair kind of sometimes ends up being afterthought for me, and I need to, like, actually, like, make it be more of, like, a main part of my daily other than just slapping dry shampoo on and, like, something in my ends, like, treating it like a ritual.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think I can do better with, like, a nighttime ritual, brushing it, using more of the herald the leave in, because it does make a difference. Like, especially, you know, because I bleach. And I've been better, though. How?

[Molly Sims]

Even your color is amazing right now. I love your hair, but I've been better.

[Emisha Gormley]

I've not been doing six weeks. I've been doing, like, 10 weeks, 12.

[Molly Sims]

Weeks, which, you know, I also like you with a root, and I think.

[Emisha Gormley]

That sort of, like, a root, it.

[Molly Sims]

Gives, like, more of that beachy look. I don't know. I'm. I'm. I'm into that. And you always tell me I need to have more of a root, so I'm listening to you also.

[Emisha Gormley]

I think probably the biggest thing I regret for so many years was balayage. Like, that is straight bleach on. Like, just, like. Just cut your hair off.

[Molly Sims]

Painting and killing your ends.

[Emisha Gormley]

Painting and killing your ends.

[Molly Sims]

No, I mean, but I do. I also think that I remember growing up with a hundred brushes, brushes a day. Like, do you remember that? Like, 100 strokes, dude.

[Emisha Gormley]

But I guess I forgot my mom, too.

[Molly Sims]

My mom used to brush my hair just like Diana's. My mom would brush it and put it in a ponytail and all of that.

[Emisha Gormley]

My mom would braid. She learned a French braid in Walmart, and I think it was Kmart.

[Molly Sims]

I still can't. You know who's good at hair is Gracie. Gracie's hair grew back, and she is like, she can do a braid on herself. She does all these bubble braids all on herself. I know.

[Emisha Gormley]

It's so good. Do you remember when I decided to put sun in my hair one year?

[Molly Sims]

Oh, I do.

[Emisha Gormley]

Cabo. When it turned orange, I turned my hair orange.

[Molly Sims]

I still love that. You're my favorite memory of, like, me with that brown hair was honestly worth it just for the way you reacted. The wig, the singer.

[Emisha Gormley]

I met Emisha I complimented. How we met is I complimented her.

[Molly Sims]

Hair at Sundance and I was like, oh, my God. I actually still remember I was wearing a cashmere poncho because I was in Utah and I thought it was like a vibe. And I had air dried my hair. It was so bad. It was such a bad poncho. But ponchos were cool for a while. I was like Manny on Modern Family and his poncho. And literally, like, Molly complimented my hair. And I'm like, oh, my God. Molly Sims just complimented my hair. I was like, I've arrived.

[Emisha Gormley]

You've arrived. And then you left. When you. Literally three years later, literally, she walks into Barney and her hair is so like, it's almost like they just put a brown box box. And it was from the to the very end, the same. I was like, you look. You're like wearing a helmet.

[Molly Sims]

That was so bad.

[Emisha Gormley]

It was so bad. It did actually make you look tan, though.

[Molly Sims]

The worst.

[Emisha Gormley]

Remember, we did talk about that.

[Molly Sims]

Yeah, it did. The worst part, though, was actually for me that I actually had to strip my hair color. It took me eight hours. The next day at the hair salon, my scalp was raw. I know.

[Emisha Gormley]

Oh, my God. Okay, this is what I'm do. Gonna to do. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to do the bonnet. I'm going to do the oil. I'm. I already do the leave in conditioner. I don't do the oil as much. I'm already excellent with my kabuki. I have it in my car. I have a travel set. I have like a whole set now because I'm in my car so freaking much. But I'm going to get better. D is going to. She's helped us inspire me.

[Molly Sims]

She's guided us. She's helped us see the light.

[Emisha Gormley]

She's seen the light. All right, well, love that we have the same top. Miss you.

[Molly Sims]

Love it, love it, love that. You know, great minds, things alike. The literally the definition of it.

[Emisha Gormley]

The holidays are almost upon us. Oh, God.

[Molly Sims]

I mean, I'm not ready. Don't even, don't even. I can't. I'm not there yet.

[Emisha Gormley]

All right, guys, don't forget to rate review. Follow us on Instagram TikTok lipstick on the rim. And Michael has Tell me more. Her substack, which is so good. And I have mine.

[Molly Sims]

I have yours. Yours is. Yours is like a go to.

[Diana Cohen]

Oh, wow.

[Emisha Gormley]

I like it.

[Molly Sims]

Good fashion inspiration. I'm not going to lie to you.

[Emisha Gormley]

Fashion inspiration. You know, must bear to time I do love these jeans I'm wearing right now, the Barrel Pistola.

[Molly Sims]

They're really good.

[Emisha Gormley]

I really like pistola.

[Molly Sims]

They're great. They're great brand. Their founder, Grace N.A. is amazing.

[Emisha Gormley]

Yeah.

[Diana Cohen]

Okay.

[Emisha Gormley]

We will see you guys next week on Lipstick on the Rim. Thanks for listening to Lipstick on the Rim with Molly Sims and my Ride or Die Emisha Gormily. We are so excited to bring you guys along on this journey with us. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Lipstick on the Rim and Molly B. Sims. Or you go to my blog where you can dive just a little bit deeper into my favorite products, trends and [e-mail] don't forget to check out our video episodes on my YouTube channel, Molly Sims. This podcast is production with Sony Music. I wanted to give a special thanks to my team, Rosie Cummings, Ken Orion, Sophie Kevorkin and everyone at Sony Music. Don't forget to listen and follow wherever you your get podcast so you never miss out on the fun.