Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Live Free with Josh Howerton
Episode: Are We Wrong About Hell? (A Response to Kirk Cameron Controversy)
Host: Pastor Josh Howerton, Lakepointe Church
Date: December 17, 2025

In this special episode, Pastor Josh Howerton responds to recent online discussions sparked by Kirk Cameron and his son James, who recently advocated for the theological positions of annihilationism and conditionalism regarding the doctrine of hell. Howerton, adopting a respectful and pastoral tone, methodically addresses their arguments, unpacks the biblical basis for the concept of eternal conscious torment (CET), and cautions listeners about the implications of redefining biblical doctrine based on personal feelings or cultural understandings.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Pastoral Tone Toward Disagreement [00:01–03:52]

• Howerton differentiates between responding to "wolves" (those attacking the faith) and "mistaken brothers," stating:

  "Kirk Cameron is a good brother that I just believe is mistaken... He has a track record of standing firm in his faith." [02:14]

• Cautions against Christians "dunking on" Cameron, emphasizing respect and unity even in disagreement.

2. Family, Deconstruction, and Faithfulness

• Parental Temptation: Howerton warns parents not to compromise biblical truth in response to children questioning or leaving the faith.

  "If somebody hops down in a pit and then the only person on the outside of the pit hops down in with them, there's no one left on the outside of the pit to pull them out of the pit." [05:06]

• References Luke 14 to support putting allegiance to Christ above even familial relationships.

3. The Justice of God and the Logic of Hell [07:47–12:24]

• Cameron’s critique: "Is that really just? An eternity of conscious torment for a limited lifetime of sin?" [07:47]
• Howerton’s rebuttal:
  • We must define "justice" and "love" by biblical standards, not cultural ones.

    "Whoever controls the terms wins the argument. So we have to let the Bible define the words that the Bible uses." [08:37]

  • Analogy: Severity of punishment corresponds to the worth of the one offended (e.g., killing a gnat vs. assassinating a president); sin against an infinite God warrants infinite (eternal) punishment.

4. Defining Theological Positions on Hell [12:24–16:26]

• Universalism: All are saved; historically heretical.
• Conditionalism: Eternal life is conditional; the soul is not inherently immortal.
• Annihilationism: The wicked are ultimately destroyed, not eternally tormented.
• Conscious Eternal Torment (CET): The historic view—eternal, conscious punishment.
• Howerton stresses that while conditionalism and annihilationism are serious errors, they are not heresies, cautioning Christians about overusing the term.

5. By What Authority? The Wesleyan Quadrilateral [17:36–23:25]

• Cameron: "The character of God in my understanding... fits more than the conscious eternal torment position." [17:36–17:46]
• Howerton’s warning:

  "Anytime that you as a Christian are evaluating any sort of Bible teaching ... the question we have to ask is, by what standard or by what authority?" [17:46]

• Wesleyan Quadrilateral: Experience --> Reason --> Tradition --> Scripture (supreme authority).

  "Watch out when you start evaluating truth claims by what feels right... that, my friends, is the path to apostasy." [18:50]

• Highlights the slippery slope: abandoning hell > universalism > rejecting substitutionary atonement > discarding biblical ethics > abandoning faith.

6. Degrees of Punishment & Biblical Evidence for Eternal Hell [23:25–29:54]

• Cameron (paraphrased): Hell as "eternal barbecue" is incompatible with God’s character.
• Howerton addresses misconceptions:
  • There are degrees of punishment in hell, just as there are in heaven (Romans 2, Matthew 10:15, Luke 12).
  • Biblical Basis for Eternality:
    • Matthew 25:46—symmetry between "eternal punishment" and "eternal life."
    • Revelation 20:10 and 14:11—language of "tormented day and night, forever and ever" and "no rest day or night."

    "There's no way to reconcile the language of ... 'no rest, day or night, forever and ever' ... with the concept of somebody just ceasing to exist." [28:53]

7. The Moral "Unfairness" of Hell – and Heaven [29:58–End]

• Howerton: It's understandable to struggle with the doctrine emotionally, but warns against letting feelings trump Scripture.
• Cites R.C. Sproul on "weeping and gnashing of teeth":
  • "Weeping": real regret and recognition of guilt.
  • "Gnashing": hard-hearted rage against God.

  "Hell is the place where everything's fair and everybody gets exactly what they deserved... Heaven is where everyone there deserved hell, but by the unmerited grace of God they received total forgiveness." [31:10]

• Central paradox: "The real question is, how could a just God send anybody to heaven? That is what's not fair." [32:13]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On parental compromise:

  "If somebody hops down in a pit and then the only person on the outside of the pit hops down in with them, there's no one left on the outside...to pull them out of the pit." – Howerton, [05:06]

• On justice and the worth of God:

  "A sin against an eternal and perfect God deserves...eternal and perfect punishment." – Howerton, [10:11]

• On scriptural authority:

  "Watch out when you start evaluating truth claims by what feels right, like he said, according to your own understanding, that, my friends, is the path to apostasy." – Howerton, [18:50]

• On degrees of punishment in hell:

  "So you see it right there...severe beating, severe judgment, light beating, light judgment. So...God is promising us it will be just." – Howerton, [24:50]

• On biblical language about hell’s duration:

  "There is no way to reconcile that language with the concept of somebody just ceasing to exist. There's no way, man." – Howerton, [28:53]

• On the true unfairness:

  "The only place where everything is fair is hell. ... The real question is, how could a just God send anybody to heaven? That is what's not fair." – Howerton, [31:08, 32:13]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Purpose – [00:01–03:52]
• Family, Deconstruction, and Faith – [03:52–07:47]
• Justice and Punishment Analogy – [08:16–12:24]
• Theological Definitions (Universalism, etc.) – [12:24–16:26]
• By What Authority? (Wesleyan Quadrilateral) – [17:36–23:25]
• Biblical Case for Eternal Hell – [23:25–29:54]
• Moral “Unfairness” & R.C. Sproul on Hell – [29:58–end]

Flow & Tone

Howerton’s approach is biblically rigorous, pastorally sensitive, and at times direct (“Watch out, bro!”). He expresses genuine affection for Kirk Cameron as a brother in Christ, even while offering firm correction. Throughout, the tone underscores the seriousness of doctrine, the need for humility before Scripture, and the beauty of undeserved grace in Christ.

Summary Takeaway

Josh Howerton urges listeners to ground their beliefs about hell (and all doctrine) in Scripture, not feelings, cultural pressure, or personal reasoning. He affirms the biblical teaching of eternal conscious punishment, carefully distinguishes primary from secondary issues, and concludes with a gospel-centered perspective: the wonder is not that anyone is condemned, but that anyone can be saved by the sheer grace of God in Christ.