Christian Pastors Debate Bad Bunny Half Time Show!? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

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Live Free with Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church)

Episode: Christian Pastors Debate Bad Bunny Half Time Show!?

Date: February 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Live Free with Josh Howerton" is a wide-ranging, spirited discussion blending theology, culture, and practical evangelism. The hosts—Pastor Josh Howerton, Carlos Araswan, and Paul Cunningham—tackle nuanced questions around predestination and evangelism, break down the parables from Luke 15, and weigh in on the cultural controversy surrounding Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl halftime performance. The tone is honest, lighthearted, and sometimes raw, balanced by deep biblical reflection and personal conviction.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. The Parables of Luke 15: God's Heart for the Lost

Starts: 07:11

• Context: Many know the parable of the prodigal son, but few realize Luke 15’s context: Jesus responds to Pharisees judging Him for "eating with sinners" (15:1–2).
• Escalating Parables: Lost Sheep (1 of 99), Lost Coin (1 of 10), Lost Son (1 of 2)—an escalating sense of urgency.
• Reasons People Are Lost:
  • Sheep: Lost through negligence (shepherd’s fault)
  • Coin: Lost through no fault of its own
  • Son: Lost through willful rebellion.
  • Key insight: "It doesn't matter why you're lost; I just want you found." (Josh, 10:48)
• Old Testament Connection: Jesus, as the Good Shepherd, fulfills Ezekiel 34’s prophecy (“I myself will search for my sheep...”), subtly claiming divinity (13:46).
• The Prodigal Son & Jewish Culture:
  • Explains the Kezazah ceremony—cultural background of shaming the wayward son, highlighting the radical mercy of the Father running to intercept and restore his son before villagers could reject him.
  • Symbolism: Robe (righteousness), Ring (family authority), Sandals (son, not a slave), Fattened Calf (Messianic banquet).
  • Memorable moment: “I get emotional…as every Christian reading this remembers when that was you.” (Josh, 16:41)
• Application—The Older Brother:
  • Both sons are lost, either in immorality (younger) or morality (older). Both misunderstand their identity and treat the Father transactionally.
  • Quote: "If you care more about winning arguments than winning souls, you might be the older son." (Carlos, 26:19)

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2. How to Reach the Lost: Practical Evangelism

Starts: 27:46

• Team Sport Analogy: Evangelism isn’t about “doing everything”—move people one step closer to Jesus (Steve Stroope’s “10 to 0 steps” analogy, 28:15).
  • Quote: "If you feel like you gotta do everything, you're not going to do anything." (Josh, 28:15; also episode’s opening line)
  • Light-switch (immediate) vs. dimmer-switch (gradual) conversion stories, e.g., Paul vs. Peter.
• Three Practical Steps (Paul):
  • Share your life (genuine relationship/place in their world)
  • Share your story (how God met you in struggles)
  • Share the gospel (when doors open)
  • Use practical tools—alarms to pray for people, targeted invitations.
• Acronym: BLESS (Josh & Jana Ferguson, 40:23):
  • B: Begin with Prayer
  • L: Listen (get three questions deep; focus on wounds)
  • E: Eat (meals + community before faith)
  • S: Serve (tangible care, meeting needs)
  • S: Share (openly communicate about Christ)
  • Quote: "The primary problem [of unbelief] is not intellectual, it's spiritual... assault heaven praying for God to pull the scales off their eyes." (Josh, 40:24)
• Encouragement—Planting Seeds:
  • Mitch Comstock’s story—one gospel tract led to generational faith years later. "That seed he planted was in the ground for 21 years and he never knew." (Josh, 47:20)

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3. Predestination, Calvinism, and Evangelism

Starts: 48:44

• Explains the theological debate:
  • Calvinism (unconditional election) vs. Arminianism (conditional election/free will).
  • Not a first-tier doctrine: “You can tell who are the immature Christians by who causes church wars over this.” (Josh, 50:05)
  • Example: R.C. Sproul defers to Billy Graham’s nearness to Christ in heaven despite their disagreement (53:10)
• Clear Biblical Case:
  • Many passages teach predestination—Eph 1:4-5, Rom 8:29-30, Acts 13:48, Romans 9.
  • Key distinction: “Regeneration (God making alive) comes before conversion—not after.” (Paul, 57:00)
• Objections Addressed:
  • How can God want all saved (1 Tim 2:4) and predestine?
    • Distinction between revealed will (what God commands) and hidden will (what He ultimately ordains) (Paul, 62:19)
  • Is it unfair for God to choose?
    • “That’s not a Calvinism issue, that’s a Christian issue.” (Paul, 67:38)
    • Romans 9—Paul’s answer: “Who are you, O man…?” (68:03)
  • Why do evangelism, then?
    • "We do evangelism because we’re commanded to, and because God says when we do it, it’s going to work." (Josh, 69:34)
    • “The more times I share it, the more people are going to get saved.” (69:36)
    • "God ordains the means, not just the ends." (Paul, 71:53)
  • Powerful analogy: The “Whosoever Will May Come” sign at heaven’s gate—and only afterward does one see “chosen from before the foundation of the earth.” (Josh, 70:52)

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4. Reacting to the Bad Bunny Super Bowl Halftime Show

Starts: 72:41

Cultural Controversy & Christian Perspective

• Context: Bad Bunny performed in Spanish at the Super Bowl. Megan Kelly and others criticized it as divisive or exclusionary; Bad Bunny’s lyrics and visuals also generated strong reactions.
• Panel’s Take:
  • Josh: “I understand why [Megan Kelly] feels that way…but she’s wrong.”
    • Many conservatives experience “loss of place” as culture shifts, but NFL motivation is business (expand Hispanic audience), not “middle finger” to America.
  • Carlos:
    • Bad Bunny’s Spanish mumbled lyrics were hard for even native speakers to follow
    • U.S.-born Hispanics are the majority; Puerto Ricans are citizens ("We actually had an American citizen play the Super Bowl this year," 83:30)
    • Assimilation and celebration of heritage are not mutually exclusive. “These are people who love America and are grateful for their Latino heritage that comes with a strong emphasis on Christian faith, marriage, family.” (83:05)
  • Josh: “You gotta decide: Am I a Christian conservative or a conservative Christian? ...I’m a Christian before I'm conservative, so my Christianity trumps the conservatism.” (79:03)
  • Paul: (On the idea of the Super Bowl halftime show being “unifying”) “Every year, people argue over the most whether they liked or disliked the halftime show, no matter who was singing.” (80:44)
• Representation Matters, But Not All Culture Is Good:
  • Carlos cautions Hispanic Christians: Not everything in cultural representation is worth celebrating, especially elements that glorify promiscuity, hypersexuality, or “denigration of women.” (96:12)
  • Quote: “The only thing more powerful than hate is love” (stage message) is not fulfilled in promoting sin. “Promiscuity is not love…Anything that contradicts the word of God is not love.” (Carlos, 97:17)
• Identity Above Ethnicity:
  • “My highest allegiance and identity is not the country I was born in. It is the person whom I was born again through.” (Carlos, 98:58)
  • Applied universally: “That last line you said applies to every single Christian in the world.” (Paul, 99:09)

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5. Witness, Hope, and Prayer for Culture-Shaping Figures

Starts: 99:41

• Encouragement to Pray for Celebrities:
  • "People condemning [Bad Bunny]... pray for him." (Carlos, 99:44)
  • Story: Daddy Yankee (former reggaeton star) rejects performing his old hit at the Super Bowl because his mission has changed after following Jesus (see clip, 101:05).
  • Quote: “I think the biggest touchdown on his career will be where he has to accept Jesus in his life.” (Daddy Yankee, 102:22)
• Episode Closes with Prayer:
  • Carlos leads a heartfelt prayer for Bad Bunny’s salvation, unity in the Church, and courage for listeners to boldly share the gospel (102:37).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pastor Josh Howerton (10:48):
  “It doesn't matter why you're lost; I just want you found.”

• Carlos Araswan (26:19):
  “If you care more about winning arguments more than winning souls, you might be the older son.”

• Paul Cunningham (55:19):
  “You can disagree without dividing.”

• Pastor Josh Howerton (70:52):
  “Imagine walking past heaven and you see a door: On the outside—‘Whosoever will may come.’ Once inside, you look back—‘Chosen from before the foundations of the earth.’ Both are true.”

• Carlos Araswan (98:58):
  “My highest allegiance and identity is not the country I was born in. It is the person whom I was born again through.”

• Daddy Yankee (102:22):
  “I think the biggest touchdown on his career will be where he has to accept Jesus in his life.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Luke 15 Parables & The Father’s Heart: 07:11–27:46
• Practical Evangelism, Tips & Acronym: 27:46–48:44
• Predestination Debate & Response: 48:44–72:41
• Bad Bunny & Super Bowl Cultural Debate: 72:41–99:41
• Prayer for Bad Bunny, Closing Reflections: 99:41–End

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Flow, Tone & Style

The hosts are biblically grounded, honest about tough issues, and maintain a friendly, sometimes cheeky rapport. Difficult theological issues are demystified for a broad audience, while contentious cultural debates are addressed with both empathy and conviction. The episode glides between deep teaching (parables, predestination), accessible evangelism tips, and culturally aware discussion, always rooting identity and mission in Jesus above all.

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For Listeners

If you missed the episode, this summary gives you a roadmap for how to navigate conversations about the gospel, today's cultural controversies, and the deeper unity found by rooting your personal and church identity in Christ.

Transcript

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

This right here is what keeps more people from sharing Christ with anybody than anything else. If somebody feels like it's their responsibility to do everything, they're not going to do anything.

[Carlos Araswan]

Assimilation and celebration of your cultural heritage are not mutually exclusive.

[Paul Cunningham]

You can confuse proximity to the father with intimacy with the father.

[Carlos Araswan]

My highest allegiance and identity is not the country I was born in. It is the person whom I was born again through. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the live free podcast. My name is Carlos Araswan. I'm here with Pastor Josh Howerton and Paul Cunningham coming to you from Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. Us.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, we are.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes, we are.

[Carlos Araswan]

And today we're going to have a great episode. I'm excited. We're going to be talking about, does the Bible teach predestination? We're going to be addressing some common objections to that. We're going to be get. Getting practical on how to lead people to Christ.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Practical. Practical.

[Carlos Araswan]

And we're going to get a little spicy. We're going to be reacting to the reactions of the Bad Bunny versus Kid Rock super bowl performances. What is going on right now?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Did you not watch Veggie Tales as a kid?

[Carlos Araswan]

I did not, but my son does today. What is that?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's the bunny song.

[Paul Cunningham]

Oh, bunny song.

[Carlos Araswan]

Maybe my son would know what that is. It'll be fun, man. It'll be fun. I liked it. I liked it. It's gonna get. It's gonna get. It's gonna get. We're gonna talk about Bad Bunny.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yes.

[Carlos Araswan]

Which I hear Pastor Paul Cunningham is a big fan of.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Massive. Course he is. He's from the Pacific Northwest.

[Paul Cunningham]

Wow. Shots fired.

[Carlos Araswan]

Already a few minutes in.

[Paul Cunningham]

Okay.

[Carlos Araswan]

His Scottish roots are really Scottish.

[Paul Cunningham]

Half Irish, definitely. Bad Bunny represents my people.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Hey, Carlos, we broke a live free record this week.

[Carlos Araswan]

Come on, listen.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Toss that up there. Toss that up there. We got it. Boom. Wait, no, no. The other one. The other one. The other one. There it is.

[Carlos Araswan]

Number two, bro.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Number two. Come on. Yeah. So this is number two on iTunes. Religion and spirituality. We love. Ter Lee Cobble is a friend of the pod.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We finally got her. Let's go for like 4 hours, 2 seconds.

[Paul Cunningham]

Don't know if we'll ever be able. Able to overcome Father Mike's good lookingness.

[Carlos Araswan]

But we're going to try.

[Paul Cunningham]

We're going to try.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I feel like Seinfeld. Newman. Newman. Father Mike.

[Paul Cunningham]

We like.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We can't get him.

[Paul Cunningham]

We love Father Mike.

[Carlos Araswan]

Hey, if you are listening to this and you're part of the Live Free Nation. And you ever come visit us in person to any of our Phys Go locations, we have a gift for you. Just come say hi. Come find us at our first time guest tent and let us know that you're coming from the live free podcast and we want to give you a gift.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We want to give you a free hat.

[Carlos Araswan]

We want. We had some. We had James and Patience fly in from Georgia this last weekend. Shout out. Thank you for visiting, guys.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I got to pray with them. That was awesome. That was awesome.

[Carlos Araswan]

We have. We hear some other pastors are actually listening to.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Dude, I'll just free podcast. Okay. So, you know, I'll redact names to protect the guilty, but I hung out with a bunch of pastors this week, so a bunch of pastors flew in here, I hosted a bunch of guys and then I flew and hung out. So, dude, here's what I'm realizing is these guys were explaining to me that the pod is helping them. So really quick, let me explain. If you're a pastor that's listening, let me help you understand how you can use this to help you. This is what these guys were explaining to me because we kind of step into some things on the pod that, you know, can be a little difficult to talk to talk about, but guys realize they need to disciple their churches into it. So what they were explaining is they were like, man, tons of people in our church are listening to you guys stuff. And it's like in the military when somebody lays down suppressive fire where it's like they'll lay down suppressive fire so the enemy's got a duck and then they, their. The troops on their side can advance under the suppressive fire. These guys were explaining that like, hey man, you guys are giving us the ability to step forward into things because so many of our people are listening that you guys are discipling them in some things that might be a little difficult for me to do in the pulpit at first. I don't know how to talk about it. They'll hear it from you. And then it's given me the ability to advance. So Matt, shout out. You know, one way that you may be able to use this thing is point people to the pod and then they start listening. You start getting unity in your church on some of these things. And then if they ever get mad at us, you can be like all those idiots. I don't agree with.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's amazing.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

There you go, man. You can. I love it.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, hey, we. Every single week we have a hat giveaway. As well. So if you're on YouTube or Spotify, you can comment hat to participate in this week's giveaway. Last week's winner was David Helton on YouTube, I believe. And this is what he had to say. Because we asked people, Pastor Josh, if people preferred water burger or in n out, and David Helton said, Whataburger is for sure better than in and out.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

However, good job.

[Carlos Araswan]

He said the Rockwell Whataburger isn't always the best location.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

How dare he?

[Paul Cunningham]

So I have an apology to make and a gift to give.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

All right. Oh, I. I bring me a hamburger with cheese.

[Paul Cunningham]

And so my social media was bombarded this week with people, you know, saying, we've done you wrong. And listen, last week, you covered with Ali Beth really well, by the way, that there is toxic empathy, but there's also good empathy. And so as I had many people sending in messages like, we ambushed you and we set you up, I did begin to put myself in your shoes, where if I given the burger that I really loved more, but it was stripped of everything good and it didn't have anything good on it, I would have not felt great about that. And so I've brought you two things. First, I brought you the slice of cheese that Whataburger forgot to put on.

[Carlos Araswan]

Man, he had that thing ready, just whipped out.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's a Kraft cheese square. That's literally cheese product.

[Paul Cunningham]

It is. Okay, listen, Whataburger didn't actually give it to me. The point of this is that they left this off in our defense a little bit, which, by the way, I hear is a pretty typical Whataburger experience. So.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Stop.

[Paul Cunningham]

I verified that you get their best burger. But you did get the best burger.

[Carlos Araswan]

I verified that.

[Paul Cunningham]

But, hey, really to say we're sorry for feeling like we set you up, I gave you a Whataburger gift card that you can use to get whatever burger you most love. There you go. I'm using this today, so that's my way of saying sorry that it looks.

[Carlos Araswan]

Like we set you up bad. Probably not use it on that, Janet. You're welcome. Hey, one more thing. If you are like, man, I have not won yet. We actually have an online store for our live free hat as well. Go to Live free shop or text hat220411. And to find our daily Bible reading plan, plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the weekly live free pod on Sundays, plus our discipleship guide that you can use with your life group, you can download the Lake Point church app tech stored app to 20411 or go to Apple and Google Play Store. Pastor Josh, how are you, man?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm very good.

[Carlos Araswan]

How do you feel about your Whataburger?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Listen, I'm excited to talk about Bad Bunny. Super bowl reactions.

[Carlos Araswan]

I'm excited.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm excited especially, you know, your perspective. El Salvadorian. What's your. Some of the reactions I didn't think were great.

[Carlos Araswan]

Bad Bunny's my cousin. I'm kidding. That's not true. That's not true.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amazing.

[Carlos Araswan]

But.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

But before you racist.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, we got.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We go.

[Carlos Araswan]

We go there quick today. We'll talk about it. You can call it. We'll talk about it. Hey, let's talk Luke chapter 15.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[Carlos Araswan]

Pastor Mike preached crushed.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Crushed, man. So we finished the boot camp series with a disciple, goes after one more like Jesus. So here's what we did. And let me, Let me, you know, cover the passage real quick and then deep dive a couple things. There's one thing in here that's especially legit, so Luke chapter 15. And I don't want to read it because a lot of people do not understand the context of Luke chapter 15. So a lot of people know, hey, man, parable of the prodigal son. Okay, we know that, but a lot of people don't know the context Jesus speaking into. It's very, very significant that Luke chapter 15 begins with this verse. This sets up literally everything in Luke 15. If you don't understand this, you don't understand Luke 15. So it begins 15, verse 1. Now, the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to him. And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, this man receives sinners and eats with them. Then the very next verse says, so he told them this parable. Okay, now that's really important. Okay, I do just want to point this out. It's very interesting that throughout the Gospels, you will constantly see people who are demon possessed. As soon as they see Jesus, they run up to him and they're like, son of man, have mercy on us. I do just want to point this out, man. This is a warning for all, for church people. In the Bible, the people with thousands of demons recognize Jesus, but the people who know thousands of Bible verses don't. That is a warning to all of us because you got the Pharisees right here who had memorized the Pentateuch, knew their Bible forward and backwards and they don't recognize Jesus. Okay, warning. Now, what Jesus does is he. In Luke 15, he tells. He tells a succession of three rapid fire parables Interesting. A lot of people miss this and notice they are escalating in their losses. So first he tells the one about the lost sheep. Dude leaves a Shepherd leaves in 99 to say the one. Okay, so one out of 99. Then he tells the story of the widow who know of the wife, the woman who loses one coin, one out of ten. So one out of ten. Then he tells the parable, the lost son, lost sheep, lost coin, lost son. And so think about this. 1 out of 99 sheep, 1 out of 10 coins, 1 out of 2 sons. So what he's doing is there's an es. There's a level of escalating losses to increase the urgency. So just let me do one quick thing on each of these that like most Christians will miss on this thing. First of all, evangelistically, we're going to circle back to this here in a second because I want to get, like, super practical. Almost every Christian has lost people in their life that they want to know Jesus. They just don't know how. So we're gonna get, like, super practical couple tips on this thing. But I do want to point this out. So, like, my friend Sean Sears pointed this out to me. So you get the lost sheep. Think about this. The sheep is lost through negligence. This is really important. Okay? So the shepherd didn't do his job. Sheep's lost through negligence. Then you got a lost coin. The coin is lost through no fault of its own. Somebody didn't do, you know, they lost it. Then you got a lost son. He's lost because of willful rebellion. Dude, this is really important, man. People are the exact same way. Some people are lost because of negligence, man. Some. Some people, they had a bad parent or they had a bad pastor that didn't do their job. Lost because negligence. Some people, it's not even their fault in one sense. You know what I'm saying? What I'm not saying in one sense, it's like, man, it's partly actually somebody else's fault. A Christian hurt you. Somebody hurt somebody with Jesus. The Jesus name tag on did something from Team Satan, okay? Lost partly because somebody else's fault. And then some people are lost because of willful rebellion. Here's. Here's the big idea. Jesus is saying, hey, man, it doesn't matter why you're lost. I just want you found. Okay? That's huge. Now a couple things people miss on this. Number one, people do not understand just how intertwined the Old Testament is with the New Testament. So when Jesus tells the parable of the shepherd that goes after the one lost sheep. First of all, that's where at Lake Point, we get our one more language. So I'll just say this over and over. Like, dude, people look at a church like Lake Point, and like, oh, these people, they're just all about the numbers and reaching thousands of people and da, da, da, da, man. You guys know this because you're in the meetings. We have literally never set a growth goal since I've been at Lake Point. Like, literally never even once. We're not about reaching tens of thousands of people. Here's what we are about. We're about every disciple of Jesus Christ being used to reach one more.

[Paul Cunningham]

Real quick, when I get that objection. Sometimes interacting with people and I get, yeah, it can feel like sometimes it is just so impersonal. But to our. To your point, we don't make it that when we're talking about it. So when I get into these conversations with someone like, hey, well, hey, let's make a deal. If you'll write down the name of one person who you don't want to, like, see, come to know, Jesus will stop talking about it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

There you go. That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

About, like, making it personal. It's like saying, hey, great, if you will let us know the name of someone you're great with spending attorney, apart.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

From God, we'll stop trying to reach.

[Paul Cunningham]

We'll start trying to reach them.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

We'll stop trying to reach.

[Paul Cunningham]

And then usually that. That usually, like, shuts the conversation pretty quickly. So it's like, no, because the idea of reaching one more person who is a real person with a real name.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So couple things on this one. When he tell. A lot of people know when Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep, he's actually calling back to a very specific Old Testament passage. And he's essentially, what he's doing is he's saying, this is actually a claim to Jesus being God, but it's veiled. Okay, so Ezekiel 34 says this six or 800 years before Jesus, God says, therefore you shepherds hear the word of the Lord as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord. Because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and become food for all the wild animals. And because my shepherds did not search for my flock, but cared for themselves rather than my flock, therefore you shepherds hear the word of the Lord. This is what the Sovereign Lord says. I am against the shepherds and I will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them. Now watch. Check this out. For this is what the Sovereign Lord says. I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. Then fast forward, and Jesus is saying, do you know what I'm like? I'm like a Shepherd where the 99 were good, but 1 was lost. And he's saying, I'm the fulfillment to the Ezekiel 34 prophecy. Someday there's going to come a shepherd.

[Carlos Araswan]

Wow.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Who will chase after the one that was lost. He's going, I'm him.

[Paul Cunningham]

I'm him.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, so you got that. That's awesome. All right. Then you got the parable of the lost coin. Okay. You got a woman who loses. She's got 10 coins, she loses one. Now, this is just a little Bible nerd thing. It's kind of interesting. I ran across this this week in study. We go and toss that up. Trinity. So what you got right here is a lot of people like, hey, man, why was the. Why is she freaking out over one lost drachma? Because the drachma. Really? How much?

[Paul Cunningham]

Wasn't that about a day's wage?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yes.

[Paul Cunningham]

Like, so, you know, it's a shame, but it's not like you're not going to obsess over finding it after a while.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right. So what a lot of Bible commentators say, especially Jewish Bible commentators, is so in this culture, traditional Jewish culture, what they would do is when a woman got married, obviously she would bring a dowry into the marriage. So that's like. If you don't know that, that's like, where her. The family she came from would invest sometimes money, sometimes land into her, and then she would bring that into the marriage. So this is actually cool. Why. Why 10 coins? Why 10 coins? Well, in traditional Jewish culture, she. She may have been wearing something like this. This is a drachma dowry headdress. And guess what it would have on it. 10 coins. 10 drachmas, 10 coins. That's what that is right there. And so a lot of people are like, man, the reason Jesus tells the parable where she's freaking out, I gotta find a coin. I gotta find a coin, is this is part of her wedding dowry headdress, and she lost one. And she's like, I gotta go. I gotta go find it. So I just. I find that interesting. Now, this is my favorite one. There's so much dude in the parable of the Prodigal son.

[Carlos Araswan]

There's a lot.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

There's a whole lot. You guys cover what I miss, and then we'll move on and we'll talk about Calvinism. It's gonna be great. So, you know, everybody knows the. The story. The recap is, dude comes to his dad and he's like, hey, dad, can I have my inheritance? Which, by the way, in Jewish culture, that would have essentially him being like, dad, I kind of wish you were dead already. So the loving father essentially goes, you know what? Yep, you can. And he goes away and into a lost far country, and he's there, and he ends up in the pig slop. Obviously, all of us know pigs. Ceremonial unclean. Jewish people don't have anything to do with pigs. That he ends up with a pig slop. There's a verse in there nobody ever pays attention to, by the way. It says, and nobody would do anything for him. I'm just going to pause and say that nobody ever. Nobody ever pays attention to that verse. It says, nobody would do anything for him. Heads up. There's a lot of people who are lost simply because no Christians will do anything for them.

[Carlos Araswan]

Wow, bro.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So it says that. All right. So then. Then he comes back and he. I love it. I don't know why, man. I get emotional. He's talking about it. He comes back, and if you read the thing, I think I get emotional because every Christian who's ever been saved, when you read that passage, you remember when that was you. So he's come back, and if you read it, he's like, rehearsing his little I'm sorry speech. He's like, dad, I'm sorry I sinned against you and the family, and I'm no longer worthy to be your son. Can I just be a servant or a slave in your house? And he's rehearsing the whole thing. And then, you know, it gets that spot in the parable where he crests, like, the top of the hill, coming down to his little family farm. And as soon as he crests the top of it, you know, he. What he sees is that his dad is sitting there on the porch. Yeah. I'm just gonna contextualize it. Sitting on his little rocking chair that he pulled out from the kitchen years ago when his son left. And every single day, what the dad was doing is he would go out and he'd sit on that rocking chair and look towards the horizon, just waiting. Waiting for the day that his lost son would come home. And then, if you remember it, as soon as the dad sees him, and this is the part that I don't think people understand. Why did Jesus tell the parable this way? As soon as the dad sees it, you know, he's just overcome with emotion and he starts running and all. You probably heard this in sermons before in Jewish cultures. Like, dignified men, they. They didn't run. Like, it kind of be like, if one of my kids was like, dad, could you put on my princess dress and go to Walmart with me? I'd be like, nope, sure can't, because I'm a dude. We'll talk about that later. Bad bunny. No, sure can't. Because dignified men don't do that in our culture, you know? And the dad, what he. What he would have had to do is he would have had to, like, take his little toga, little robe, and he would. Had to pull it up like a little. Like, literally, like a Jewish toddler would do when they were going out to play. And he would. Had to tie it up above his, like, up on his thighs. And I was just like, heads up. Like, grown. Grown men don't like to show off their thighs. I'm just going to. I sure don't. So. So. And then he just starts running towards his son. And, dude, if you read it, it's so great because the son thinks the dad is running at him for one reason. I'm gonna talk about this in a second. A lot of people don't know he thinks the dad is running at him for one reason. And the dad. So he goes into his I'm sorry speech. Hey, dad, I'm so sorry I sinned against you and the family, and I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. And the dad interrupts him and doesn't even let him finish the I'm sorry speech. And he gives this big old hug, and he puts a, you know, robe on him and puts a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. That's really important. I'm coming back to that in a second. And he says, kill the fat calf. Now, a lot of people don't know a Jewish dude that heard this parable would have got, like, there was something. There's a layer. We don't know. So in traditional Jewish cultures, they had something. It was called a kezaza ceremony. Okay, There's a Bible scholar I ran across this week who's talking about this in a kezazah ceremony. What a Jewish family or village would do is if somebody left their home and disrespected the family, and especially if they became a traitor to the Jewish people and then they tried to return, then the Jewish villagers, they would enact this kezaza ceremony. And they would. What they do is in front of the guy that betrayed the family, they would bring a big clay pot and in front of. They were very visual culture. And they would break the pottery in front of the individual person. And it was a symbol that they were saying essentially, like, we are breaking fellowship with. You are not welcome here. You have broken respect and fellowship with the community. We are breaking respect and fellowship with you. And it was a way of them casting them out of dignity, of acceptance in society. There. Now here's the big idea. Check this out. Guess where the kezaza ceremony would happen on the outskirts of the village. Wow. All right, now check this out. If you're asking the question, man, so why is the dad get up and start running at his son as soon as his son reaches the outskirts of the village? The verse actually says this. It says, while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him. And he ran some translations, say, raced to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. Well, who's he racing? He's trying to get there before the people from the village start this kezaza ceremony to cast him out. And he's going, and listen, remember what I said at the very beginning of this? Jesus. All these Pharisees see Jesus hanging out with. Get. Watch this. Traitors to the kingdom of God. And the Pharisees are like, cast them out. Jesus don't have anything to do with these jokers. You get, show them, Jesus. Show them judgment, hellfire, brimstone. And Jesus is saying, you, you hypocrites, you Pharisees. He's like, you people, you're trying to cast these people out of my kingdom. And what he's doing is he's like, I'm the father who's going to beat you to the punch. And all the people that you're trying to condemn, I'm going to run to and I'm going to embrace before you get a chance to cast them out. And he's the father's preempting the condemn, the condemnation ceremony so he can enact. Watch this. A salvation and acceptance ceremony. Wow. And then he does this thing. I'll say this, then I'm done. And he throws. This is so significant, dude. Just theologically significant. So he puts a robe on him, right? This sinful son, shamed puts a robe on him. All right, now fast forward to the Book of Revelation. And when all the sons of the kingdom of God are accepted into the kingdom, what's to say they're covered in white robes? The Father's wrapped him in a robe of his righteousness. Then he puts a ring on his finger. And a ring would have been like a symbol of the family authority, right? Fast forward to the Book of Revelation. Guess what we're going to do. We will reign with him. So he's still got all the family authority. Then he puts, it says he puts sandals on his feet. This is actually kind of significant in this culture, Jewish culture, sons would always be gifted sandals. Slaves wouldn't. Wow. So he's going, hey, man, you're a son of the house. You ain't no slave in this house. For we have not been given a spirit of fear to fall back again into slavery, but we have been given a spirit of sonship by which we cry, abba, Father. And then he goes, kill the fat and calf.

[Carlos Araswan]

Oh.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And then you fast forward obviously to the Book of Revelation, and guess what's on the throne? A slain lamb killed for us. And guess what's happening around that throne? A big party. The wedding supper of the lamb.

[Paul Cunningham]

Boom.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So it's like God's going, this is my heart, man. This is my heart. So he's going, hey, man, we're going. The Son of man did not come condemn the world, but to save the world through him. All right, so there you go. There you go.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's amazing.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I know, dude.

[Paul Cunningham]

And it ends with irony in that, yes, the older brother is outside. So actually the lost son is the older brother at the end of it. And so he's talking again to Pharisees. And so that's the ironic thing, is they think that they're the ones that are in, when actually they're the ones that are outside.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You're the lost son.

[Paul Cunningham]

You're the lost one.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You're the lost son.

[Carlos Araswan]

It's interesting, too, because through this story we read basically, like, the two sons, one, they're both lost. So it's not really the one lost son is the two lost sons, but they're more similar than people think. If you think about it, both sons wanted the father's stuff more than the father. The younger son said, I want your inheritance. The older son said, you never gave me a goat. Both sons were distant from the father. The younger son was physically Distant. He left. The older son was emotionally distant. There was no intimacy. Both sons misunderstood their identity. The younger son came back saying, I will be your servant. Basically, he saw himself potentially as an employee. The older son says, I have been slaving for you. He saw himself as a slave, dude.

[Paul Cunningham]

I've never noticed that even with the father.

[Carlos Araswan]

Both sons saw their relationship with their father as transactional. The younger son said, if I leave and take your stuff, then I'll be happy. The older son said, if I obey, I should get rewarded and get your stuff. Both were lost. Younger son was lost in immorality. The older son was lost in his morality. And so the father seeks both. And so, man, I would say this as I read through this. Obviously we are, you know, we're church people. We. We're part of the church, but we need to be careful that we are not like the older son. More often than not, we need to be mindful, like. And so if you're listening to this and maybe you're like, well, I'm a Christian, and yes, we talk about reaching one more. But then you also want to be careful not to become the older son. If you are lacking joy as you follow Jesus, you might be the older son.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, that's right, dude.

[Carlos Araswan]

If you've received grace, patience, and forgiveness from God, but you struggle to offer that same grace and forgiveness to other people, you might be the older son. If you're upset that things are not going your way and somebody that is, quote unquote, a worse sinner than you is probably looking like he's having a, quote, unquote, a better life, and you hate that you might be the older son. And then the last thing, if you care more about winning arguments more than winning souls, you might be the older son. That's a. Watch out.

[Paul Cunningham]

And if anything, it can be more dangerous because you can confuse proximity to the father with intimacy with the father.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right, dude.

[Paul Cunningham]

And that's what can easily happen. And, and don't get me wrong, like, we want people in the church, we want people in there. But if you're, if you, if you're not careful of those kind of behaviors and attitudes that you're just seeping up, you can fool yourself and think, oh, I go to church, I'm in. I'm a pretty good person. When it's like, give proximity to God, but you don't have intimacy with God because if you did, those kinds of behaviors and attitudes would not show what this is saying.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

This, this gets us transition. We start talking about, okay, man, I want to. I want to reach lost people. How do I do it? What to, to Paul's point, what these three rapid fire parables are saying. Hey, man, here's how you know. Yeah. Here's how you know if you're on, if you've ventured into the Pharisee thing. And man, you got proximity to the father, but not enemies. Here's how you know. What's your attitude towards lost people? That's how you know. There's your litmus test. Are you sitting around and like, honestly, it's like, I'm. I'm against you. It's okay to be against ideologies. That's fine. Well, of course we are. We're.

[Carlos Araswan]

We're gonna talk about that today.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's right. We're gonna talk about that. We're against that. But if your heart towards them is not the Father's heart. Amen. For the Son of man did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. That your litmus test for where your heart's at is what your heart towards lost people.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, sorry, that just hit me like a ton of bricks for some reason. I think it's just a good reminder, especially we give it. What we're going to hit in the second half of the pod is that like people, we can so easily forget that like when God sees Bad Bunny or Kid Rock or anyone else, his heart is that they are a lost child, that he wants to come. Come home.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amen.

[Paul Cunningham]

And against your point, not there's total place for us to talk against ideologies or conflation of bad ideas, but we just got to remember that these are people.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Who are created in the image of God and who God wants to save.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right, man. Yeah, that's right.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, let's get practical about it then. If somebody's asking, great, man, I. I got some. One more in my life. Help me. Help me do what I need to do so that they can come home.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Well, okay, let me, Let me say a couple things and then y' all chip in. We're going to get real practical. So first of all, man, one of the biggest mistakes I feel like people make is this is what keeps more people from. This right here is what keeps more people from sharing Christ with anybody than anything else. If you. So let me say it and explain it. If you feel like you got to do everything, you're not going to do anything. This is really important, man. If somebody feels like it's their responsibility to do everything. They're not going to do anything. So this is a vintage Steve Stroup, my predecessor illustration. And it totally changed the way that I approach evangelism. Okay? Stru would always say he's an OG and he's an evangelist at heart. He would always say, hey, man, every person you meet is somewhere on a spectrum from 10 steps away from Christ to zero steps. And the zero is obviously the point of salvation. What happens to most people, man, is they think they're. They're like, oh, man, I can't do evangelism because I can't figure out how to get them from where they're at to praying the sinner's prayer in one conversation. They're like, oh, you know, what am I going to do? I don't know what to do. I don't got to spiel. Well, the point is, what's really interesting, if you read your Bible, there's two types of conversion stories. You got Paul conversions and you got Peter conversions. We know exactly when the apostle Paul was converted. This very, like, light switch. He's on the road to Tarsus. Bright light knocks him off his horse. Boom. Who are you, Lord? Get saved. You know exactly the moment. But then, dude, honestly, you got a lot of like, Peter conversions. It's like theologians. There is rabid debate over when is the moment that Peter was became a Christian. Is it when Jesus called him? Is it when he actually demonstrated repentance? Is it at the end of the Gospel of John when it's clear he actually understood the Gospel? Is it when he finally demonstrated very deep repentance after Jesus restored him from salvation? Is it when he was filled with the spirit in John 20? People, honestly, people don't know most salvations. For almost everybody, they're more like dimmer switch than light switch. And your job is not to get them from where they're at all the way to point zero in one conversation. Your job is just to take them from wherever they are, just one step closer.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's great.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So how the question. This will change everything if you just start asking the question, okay, this person's six steps away from Jesus. My goal is not to get them to zero. I'm just trying to get them to five. Well, then, hey, man, this is a. Evangelism is a team sport. This is the body of Christ. And if all of us are moving to get people from 6 to 5, and another person's gonna get them from 5 to 3, another person's gonna get them from five to you know, from three to two, and then somebody's gonna invite them to church. And then, you know, there's a. There's a. There's a small group of people who have the spiritual. All of us are called to evangelism. There's a small group of people who have the spiritual gift of evangelism that are really good at closing the sale. Like, honestly, that's a gift God's given me. I'm good at closing a sale. And so somebody's going to invite them to church. They're going to hear somebody like me, give them a gospel presentation they can understand. Boom, they're going to get saved. But you just got to understand it's a team sport.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's a good distinction, Pastor Josh. So what you're saying is, even if you don't have the gift of evangelism, you're still called to evangelize?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You are commanded. Yes, you are called to. And commanded to Acts 1:8. You'll receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you. And you will be my witnesses. That's right, Witnesses. Okay, let me say a couple other quick things. And I want you all to get practical, because both of you guys are evangelistic men, and everybody's listening. We got. We got friends, family, co workers, we got kids, parents, want to see, get saved. This is how. Dude, the other thing I would say is you're never going to hit a target you didn't draw. So, like, at Lake Point, that's why we do this little one. More cards. Hey, man, all I'm asking you to do is, who's the one person close to you farthest from God? Stick their name on that card. And what I do, I did it this morning. I got a name on a card. It's on the bathroom mirror where I brush my teeth. And every single time I see it, I pray for God to give me a chance to show that person love of Christ that day. And a lot of times it's a text. A lot of times it's like, let me send you something. That kind of thing. Now let me pause, because I got. I want to go through a quick little acronym. But before I do it, what do you guys got? Like, let's get super practical. Somebody's listening. Like, I want to help somebody know Christ. I got no idea how. What should I do?

[Carlos Araswan]

I'll tell you. For me, actually, you go first of all.

[Paul Cunningham]

Okay. I think you're going to some of this in the acronym. So I'm sorry if I still say.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Are you doing that early?

[Paul Cunningham]

No, okay, no, I usually give three things. Share your life, share your story, share the gospel, share your life. As a good starting point, it's the idea of man, if I'm going to want to see someone come to know Jesus, I should probably actually like just be spending time around those people. Some of this is, is you're already doing things where you're around lost people. It could be at the games or your kids are playing, it could be your neighbors, could be a lot of things. And so in the just think about where are the environments you're in. And then to your question is like, hey, who is someone close to me but far from God? And then just sharing your life with them, getting to know them, getting to know their story, asking them questions. Because even like when I'm asking them questions, I'm beginning to think through because this is the idea of sharing my story. Like, what are they going through? What areas of struggle are they in? And that's where I begin to think, hey, how can I bring Jesus into the conversations and say, hey, can I be honest? Like, here's how Jesus has helped me in that. Here's like how I've experienced that kind of a thing as well. And so I tell people just with that then is like once you identify who that is your thing, the name is. A few things I like to do is I like to set an alarm on my phone just in every day I pray for him because it's so easy to get forgetful. I actually think in addition to not knowing how one of the reasons people just practically don't share the gospel or try to get people closer to Jesus is frankly, just because they forget. I think it's one of Satan's best strategies, is just to get you distracted. So alarm on my phone is a great way to say, hey, I'm praying for so and so at the same time every day. So that's, that's a good framework for me. It's like I want to share my life with them. I just want to get to know them and have them get to know me. And then I'm going to share my story with them bit by bit. And when I say that, I don't mean, oh, here's a 30 minute version. I more mean when I say that if they're, if they're having trouble with their kids, say, hey, I've had some trouble with my kids too. And then I should probably. That humanizes me. I don't have everything perfect, I don't have everything together. And then I'll Be like, hey, can I share, like, what's helped me? And then that's when I'll try to weave in something in terms of how God has helped me with my kids. And they're like, hey, would you like to learn more? And then that can go on.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let me pause and just give a comment on what you're saying. It's like what Paul's saying right here. Because if you're listening what needs to happen right now, I'd encourage you literally right now, visualize in your heart the person that is lost that you want to see saved. Yes, Right now. Visualize that. Like, get their face in your head what Paul's saying online. Hey, man, you having trouble with your kids? Me too, man. I had that, too. Here's how God helped me. So this is how people get saved. Let me go back to the one through ten analogy. Here's how people get saved. Dude, I've seen this. You know, we see thousands of people get saved at Lake Point. Here's how they get saved. So it starts there, 10 steps away. They hate Christians, they hate Christianity. Then they're working with a Christian. And some dude was brave enough to come out of the closet for Jesus at work. And it's not that he's walking around giving tracks out million dollar bills. All it is is they knew he was a Christian and he was kind, honest and hardworking. And all of a sudden they're like, huh, yeah, like, I was kind of not an a hole. And I thought they were all jerks. And then, so here's. Wait, wait. So here's what happened is that person just went from a 10 to an 8.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, then. Now they're Paul's friend at work, and then they're having trouble with their kids. And then Paul just. They get to know Paul, he's their friend, and Paul just slips in. Dude, me too, man. And then. And at some point you're like, hey, dude, you don't got to say yes. Do you mind if I just pray for you? And you didn't share a plan of salvation with them, but here's what just happened. Then they went from a six to a three. Yes, that's what he's talking about right here. It's just those little things. Now keep going.

[Paul Cunningham]

No, I was literally going to. Going to share, number one, the story of Rosaria Butterfield. I'm going to do a brief, brief thing.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Total stud, by the way. She's amazing.

[Paul Cunningham]

Amazing. But briefing is. I mean, at one point, she was an atheist, feminist, lesbian.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's Right. So teaching at an Ivy League school, I think.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, it's at an Ivy League school. So I'd say she was probably at the 10 on the 10 scale. And so she had written this article just bashing evangelicals. And. And she got this letter, though, inviting her to a home of a pastor. So she, oh, this could be a good piece for my next hit piece kind of thing. She went in thinking, oh, he's going to tell me all the 50 reasons why I'm stupid and wrong, or he's going to try to share the gospel with me. And what happened is they had a good meal, they asked her about her story, got to know her, they did converse a little bit, but she just said, man, they were thoughtful. They didn't assume. They asked a lot of questions. But she was actually just shocked because they never tried to invite her to church or share the gospel. That first time they met her where she was. Now, again, that's an aberration. Not everyone is at. Not everyone starts at a 10. But to your point, she moved from a 10 probably to a 9 that night. And it took a couple years. But actually, through that friendship, she eventually comes to faith. It's just a good personal example of that. So it's actually, you hit one thing, one other practical thing that I'll give it to you, Carlos. I always love to just do this is like, hey, man, how can I be praying for you? And that can happen a lot of ways. It can be like if you're out to eat at dinner with your waiter, but it can also just be like, hey, like my family and I like to pray for different people. Specifically, every night, certain things I'll be praying for you for. And in my experience, 99 times out of 100, they'll be like, bro, oh, yeah, definitely.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Even you. Even lost people love it.

[Paul Cunningham]

Even lost people love it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

They love it, dude, they love it.

[Paul Cunningham]

And it's just. That is one very practical thing I tell people like to do if they don't know anything else to do.

[Carlos Araswan]

Yeah, I mean, you guys said it. You know, I've heard it said before. People inside the church read the Bible. People outside the church read your life. Yes, there's a verse, 2 Corinthians 3, verse 2 to 3, you yourself, you yourselves are our letter known and read by all. A letter from Christ. And so I think, again, it's like, you know, are people seeing your life? And are they asking, man, whatever it is you have of how do I get it right? And how do you treat your Wife, how you treat your husband, how your kids relate to you, how you run your businesses, how much joy do you seem to have? Those things are weird in our culture. And so when you see somebody who's actually living a life that you know is, is, you know, in some ways attractive and full of the joy of the Lord, people should be drawn to you and be like, man, this person. That's right. How do I get whatever it is? And then that's where you have an opportunity. Oh, let me, let me tell them. My favorite faithful.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Can I give just one more piece of advice off that one thing is, I think you were hitting this earlier is to be like, well, man, I just, I'm not very eloquent. I don't know how to present the actual gospel really well. And I think one, I would encourage everybody to learn how to do that. There's so many resources out there now, especially on the Internet, that I don't think that's any longer an excuse, at least that you can't try to learn. But I will say to your point, some people just have a more natural gift of evangelism. And in the New Testament, in order to interact with those people, you had to see them face to face. But now because of digital and social media, like for example, if my neighbor or someone is struggling with kids, like, hey, my pastor preached an amazing sermon on kids. You manifesting that to you?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, this really helped me exactly.

[Paul Cunningham]

Like, this really helps me manifest in this. You're like, yeah, if it's going to help me with my kids, for sure. And like, that's just another end. It's getting them a little bit closer. And then with that, it's one of the reasons why we just encourage people to invite people to church. We definitely want every Christian to be sharing Jesus on their own. But part of that is we bring them to places where people have that spiritual gift and where maybe someone else can say it better than we can. There was actually on this, and I'll throw it back to you, Pastor Josh. This is going to sound weird, but it was just so interesting. There was a church in the Phil, Philippines, massive church. At the time I met the pastor, it was 60,000 plus people. And at some of the locations, because at each of their locations, a person would preach live. So it wasn't video, but there were some places where the person was a really great teacher but did not do a good job landing the plane and actually presenting the gospel. And at those locations, the person would finish teaching and then someone Else who was an incredible evangelist would come up and actually deliver it. I say that to say, even though that sounds weird and we don't. Don't do it here. I hope that's an encouragement to say, hey, even people who are paid pastors don't necessarily have that specific gift. And the recognition was, well, hey, let's get them to somebody who has it. That's all.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So here's a. Let me get, like, super practical.

[Carlos Araswan]

Please bless us.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Here, here's. I'm going to. Here's the. Me and Jana have an acronym we heard years ago from old Dave Ferguson, and we've just adopted this as a family. And I'm. Listen, man, I'm just telling you. Whether it's a prodigal son, a kid you got, or a neighbor or coworker, I'm just telling you, Matt, this thing works. I'm just telling you, dude, this thing works. In fact, I'm gonna shout out some people that we were able to lead to Christ doing this, okay? So he just said, hey, dude, here's all you gotta do. Bless. Just think of the acronym. Bless. So number one, B. Begin with prayer. And, dude, let me just say, man, you will not lead people to Christ without this. Because it. The primary problem they have is not intellectual, it's spiritual. The New Testament says, dude, you gotta get this, man. The New Testament says, the God of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers to keep them from seeing the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Their primary problem is not intellectual, it's spiritual. So you have to assault heaven praying for God to pull the scales off their eyes. Okay, so you start there. In fact, I tossed up on Instagram two days ago, like, hey, we're going to talk about evangelism on a podcast. If you were led to Christ by somebody else. Give me the thing. That was the biggest thing. There's, like, I don't know, hundreds and hundreds of responses. The number one thing people said is, they prayed for me. So these are people. When they were lost, they were like, number one thing, they prayed for me. So begin with prayer number two. Listen, let me get up here, B. Yeah, listen, listen. So. And here's what I'd say. I'm gonna give a little hack on this if you get. Here's. Here's your goal. Get three questions deep. So we live in our culture. We live in, like, a very surface deal. Like, how you doing?

[Paul Cunningham]

Fine.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

How you doing? Fine. Okay, cool, man. I'm on. And guys, especially like that, if you're a Christian that learns wherever you're at to get three questions deep with somebody. So here's, here's how it looks like. Carlos, how are you doing today, man? I'm doing pretty good. He's going to role play it.

[Carlos Araswan]

I'm ready here. So I'm like, I'm alright.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So you know, you ask the guy at work like, hey man, how you doing? He's like, ah, pretty good. And you, oh, okay, that's question number one. Then you go, let me get a second. Oh man, just pretty good. Hey dude, do you mind me asking what's going on? He's like, oh man, you know, just having a little trouble at home. Then you get third question deep. Hey dude, dude, do you mind me asking like, what kind of trouble you having at home, man? Me and my son are not doing good right now. Here's what you're gonna notice if you get three questions deep with somebody, what's going to happen is you're going to find the wound in their life and that's the spot where the great physician's going to meet them. So if you just practice this, discipline yourself to get three questions deep and you're beginning to get. Now let me just say one thing on this. Tons of people got prodigal kids, okay? So the L B is blessed. L is listening. Here's what you got to watch out for. If you got prodigal kids, here's what I would say. Listen more than you talk. So what I would say is love them very, very well. Give yourself permission once a year. Let's say they only come in a few times a year. You see them at Thanksgiving. Give yourself permission one time per year to have a very direct like, hey man, how are you doing with Jesus? I'd say maybe pray, ask the Holy Spirit, maybe limit yourself to once a year and then the rest of the time, spend the time listening. Okay, so begin. Listen. E. I'm going to do the others quicker. Ble is eat. Okay? We know Jesus in the gospels constantly. He's either going to a meal, he's at a meal, or he's leaving a meal. Okay? So the reason for this is people don't understand how this works. People's relationships change before their faith changes almost always. So it's if you, when you, when their friends change, that's when their faith begins to change. So it's like, man, just eat with them. Like invite them into your life. Do the thing, okay? B L E S is serve, serve. Just find ways, like little ways to care for A man, like, bless them. We get, you know, there's a girl, her name's Ophelia. Shout out, Ophelia. That was our one more for a long time. And we pray. This is like five or six years. She was our one more. And honestly, man, she went through a real hard time in her life. Jan and I, like, we're sending her a little bottle of wine. We're sending her gift cards for books, Amazon. She loved to read. We were sending her a little prepaid Visa cards to help with babysitting. She's going through a tough time. And it's like, man, we just want you to know we love you, man. And then last B, L, E, S. The last one is after serve, then you share. So that's the big idea. Mass. No Secret agent Christians come out of the closet for Jesus. Everybody needs to know that, all that stuff. In fact, ask yourself this question. If tomorrow, tomorrow. This is an oppressive persecuting country and you are on trial, somebody has accused you of being a Christian, ask yourself the question, would there be enough public evidence for them to convict you?

[Paul Cunningham]

Wow, it's good.

[Carlos Araswan]

Can I add one more? I feel like often, you know, people want to share, but there's a little bit of fear and maybe you're intimidated or I guess you're like, oh, but what if I just don't know what to say? And I would say, pray for yourself. Pray for boldness.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's great.

[Carlos Araswan]

Pray for courage. I know I've been in many situations where, like, I know the Holy Spirit is like, yo, talk to them or say something now. And I'm like, I want to, but like. And then. And then I didn't do it. And I pray for courage and boldness every single day that I may, you know, when it. When it is appropriate and when the Holy Spirit says go, that I go. That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, dude. So let me, Let me finish with this, and let's talk about Calvinism. So the. When you share, you are usually doing things that are way more significant than you realize they are. So, dude, I screenshot of this. It was over 10 years ago. Pull out that one. The Mitch Comstock. So there's a guy, my church in Nashville, that was a rabid evangelist. He was. He was. I think he was into computer programming. He was like an IT guy. So, you know, had a bit of a Dilbert vibe kind of thing. He was like one of my favorite church members, Mitch. Tragically, a few years ago, he died of cancer very young. And so I'm very glad I Have this. We went over to their house and he had three, I think, young boys and just. Just a good dude. Well, I think it was right or, you know, it was before he died. I saw somebody post on his Facebook page this and I screenshotted it and I've kept it for years. So this lady, I blurred out their faces, her name was Andrea. She posted on his page, said, did you go to Wright State University? Were you in FCA now at this time? Mitch is in his late 40s. And he said, yes, I did. I went to FCA some. I was more involved in campus crusade and I went to several BSU events many long years ago. Dude, check this out. This is so great. She posts now. Think about this. This is 20 years after he was in college. And this wife posts. You gave a Bible. No, no. You gave a tract to my husband. He was raised Catholic. He credits that moment to his salvation. We wanted to sincerely thank you. We have been married for 21 years now, and we are raising a Christian family. God is faithful, and you were faithful to him. Dude, that seed he planted was in the ground for 21 years and he never knew. In fact, I guarantee he didn't even remember handing that guy a little Bible or a little tract. And 21 years later, because he was willing to share, somebody and their whole family is going to be in heaven because of him.

[Carlos Araswan]

Them.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You never know the power of you plant a seed. You never know.

[Carlos Araswan]

Amazing. So good, man. Well, we got to keep going here because we got some other things to discuss, but I have a question. Does the Bible teach predestination? And if so, why do evangelism?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, so here's why I bring this up. Anytime we talk about evangelism, people pop. So Chad gpalti is going to talk about this real quick. The question people have, and we've been getting this a lot in comment sections of pod, is, yeah, what are my predestinations? Because when you talk about evangelism, people are like, well, but if you believe in predestination, then what's the purpose of evangelism? So, so ChatGPT does the. But we're gonna do this real quick. This could be a whole pod. So this is really. Does the Bible teach predestination? I'm gonna give my thoughts on this too. If so, what's the purpose of evangelism?

[Carlos Araswan]

But before you answer, we have three memes that I want to show you. I'm not kidding. A Calvinist is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he has he was predestined to.

[Paul Cunningham]

Gandalf said.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amazing.

[Carlos Araswan]

Number two. Predestination and election are mentioned 30 times in the Bible. Must mean free will.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, okay.

[Carlos Araswan]

Number three, when an Armenian sees the word predestined in Scripture, what say you?

[Paul Cunningham]

What I say is, where was Patrick Stewart's undershirt like that. That was. That might have been the deepest, widest V neck of all time.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

The old chest lettuce.

[Paul Cunningham]

I don't know that I can. Even after that. Yeah, I mean, I know we got to get to Bad Bunny so we can make this quick and easy. Yes, it does.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It does. Honestly. All right, let's pray.

[Carlos Araswan]

Let's move on. But seriously, Bad Bunny in the Super Bowl.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So let me. Can I preempt this? Yes.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes, please do.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let me preempt this real quick. The answer is yes. Yeah, but. And we're going to talk about. And answer some objections real quick. This is. This is in. In terms of the theologians call theological triage. This is a second or third tier issue. And here's what we mean on this. You can tell who are the immature Christians by. Who causes church wars over this. Yes. And here's why I say this. So theologians for centuries have. They've divided doctrines of Christianity into three tiers. First tier issues are issues where it's more important to be right than to be together. Hello. There are some issues that are worth dividing a church over. The Apostle Paul even acknowledges some doctrines are more important than others. In 1 Corinthians 15, when he says, for I deliver to you as of first importance. And then he lists things like that Christ died in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was raised, that he's coming again. So these are issues where it's more important to be right than to be together. Second tier issues are issues where it's more important to be together than to be right. But it might be a little uncomfortable. That's like, hey, man, we practice baptism by immersion. If you're a pedo Baptist, you believe in baptizing babies, it's gonna be uncomfortable. But we're all on Team Jesus. Third tier issues are issues where it's more important to be right than to be together. And very frankly, it shouldn't be uncomfortable. Yeah, this is stuff like, dude, eschatological views.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

You know, when's Jesus coming back? In what order are the events going to happen? Age of the Earth. Like, if you're dividing churches over that, we literally. The Apostle Paul says, warn a divisive person once, then warn them again, then have nothing to do with them, knowing that they are warped and sinful. So let me tell me. I know I'm talking to it. Let me tell a story, and then it's all yours.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, hey, live free nation. Let me share something. Something we are really excited about. Marriage Weekend is happening this coming weekend, February 21st and 22nd, at Lake Point Church. And by the way, this is not just another event you attend and forget about by Monday. This is an investment in one of the most significant things in your life, and that is your marriage. And so if you are married, this is your opportunity to strengthen what God has entrusted to you. If you are engaged or dating, this is where you. You build it right before you build it wrong. And if you're single, lean in. Because the best marriages are built long before the wedding day. And so we're not just talking about inspiration. We're giving you tools. Real, practical biblical wisdom you can actually use. Because strong families don't drift into health. They're built with courage and obedience. And so February 21st and 22nd, at any of our physical locations or through church online, Marriage weekend at Lake Point Church. Fight for your family. Fight for your marriage. We will see you there.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So can I talk about a story when two great theologians had had beef?

[Paul Cunningham]

We will allow it.

[Carlos Araswan]

That ever happened.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, so story, recent story. Two great theologians in America had beef. All right. What?

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes, that happens.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay. But it'll surprise you. This is going to surprise you.

[Carlos Araswan]

You.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So obviously, you go rewind a few decades, you got two guys that are very prominent American theologians. You've got. And they come down on the exact opposite sides of this specific issue. You got on this issue, the theological camps are known as Calvinism and Arminianism. So on the one hand, you got Billy Graham, who was in general viewed as an Arminian high free will guy. On the other hand, you had a dude named R.C. sproul who was like, the figurehead of Calvinism. If you ever want to read about it, I would recommend reading R.C. sproul on predestination. He's very helpful. Okay? These dudes, people assumed had, like, serious beef. So this actually happened in Nashville, where I was living. R.C. sproul comes into Nashville and he's talking, he's giving lectures on predestination, free will. And then he does a Q and A. And according to reports, in the Q and A, somebody raises their hand and they ask the question, Dr. Sproul, you and Billy Graham have a vehement disagreement on this doctrine. And they say, Dr. Sproul, do you believe that you will see Billy Graham in heaven. And there's this big long, tense silence and he leans into the microphone and R.C. sproul says no. And then he just lets it sit like that. And then after about five seconds, what I'm told he did is he said no. Because when we get to heaven, Billy Graham will be so near the throne of God and I shall be so far I will not have any chance of seeing Billy Graham. Now here's the big idea, man. There are some things, doctrines that are worth dividing over. But listen, don't divide Christians. That Jesus died to unite. Yes. In unnecessary things. Yes.

[Paul Cunningham]

I like to say on this one. Then I'll jump into a more in depth answer, though we'll still keep it brief. We can do a deep, deep dive another time. That on this issue and things, other things, like eschatology, I should only know where you stand when we're having conversations like this.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's good. Yeah.

[Paul Cunningham]

Or maybe if we're happening to preach that week on a passage of scripture where it's mentioned. But in general, I shouldn't know where you stand when I look at you from afar. If anything, I should be a little confused. Like I should see you like sharing the gospel and doing all these practical things, reach people for Jesus. Like, oh, obviously they're an Arminian. But then when I hear you pray, I should hear you saying things like, God, would you change?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Save the Lord?

[Paul Cunningham]

Would you open their eyes and be like, dude, is he schizophrenic? Is he Calvinist now? And I should be confused when I look at you from afar, but I should only really know where you stand. We're just having conversations like these in person and we can, we can passionately disagree. But to your point, it doesn't mean we have to divide. You can disagree without dividing.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And so give us the quick biblical case here.

[Paul Cunningham]

So we would say yes, because the Bible clearly teaches it. Ephesians 1, 4, 5. He chose us in him before the foundation of the world, having predestined us according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Romans 8, 29, 30. For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. Acts 13:48. As many as were appointed, or you could say elected to eternal life, believed.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, a lot of people miss that one, by the way.

[Paul Cunningham]

It's a massive one.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So Paul preaches and this shows us the relationship between evangelism and pre estimation. Paul preaches and says, I just want to verbally highlight it. And all who were appointed to eternal life believed.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Why do they believe? In part because they were appointed to eternal life. Now that raises questions. We're going to get to those in a second. Keep going, Paul.

[Paul Cunningham]

So if you are a Christian, you have to believe in predestination because it is in the Bible.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Don't take a pair of scissors to.

[Paul Cunningham]

Get it out if this is not your thing, a Calvinist thing. This is a Bible thing. So actually, briefly, we have a. A slide that put up an order of salvation.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Of course you do.

[Paul Cunningham]

Of course we do.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Is this Order of Salutis? It is.

[Paul Cunningham]

It is, yeah. For if you want to sound fancy to your friends and neighbors, say Ordo Salutis. It's Latin. And the idea.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's Latin for order of salvation.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, order of salvation. And these are things that are in the Bible, either explicitly or implicitly, that all Christians have to believe in because they are literally in the Bible. Now, where Christians do differ is really actually just on two things, which I think, by the way, is a really helpful reminder of why we shouldn't divide on this, because we really just disagree on two things. One is the order of regeneration and conversion. And the other, which is big here, is what is the basis of predestination? So if you're a Christian, you have to believe in predestination in some way because it is explicitly in the Bible. So the big question becomes, well, what is the basis for predestination? Two big views. One is that that election is conditional, often known as the Arminian position. What they would say is, hey, God foresees the future. He sees those who are going to respond positively in faith and put their faith in Jesus, and then he seals them and he elects those people. So their election is conditional. So, yeah, he predestined them, but based on his foreknowledge of what they would do. And then there's the second view, unconditional election, sometimes referred to as Calvinism or Reformed theology, which is he does not elect them from eternity based on. On anything they do, but simply based on what God did, His decision. That's why it's unconditional. He simply chooses that they would come to salvation in him. I would land in the unconditional election camp. Obviously. Again, we could do so much more of a deep dive. Whole books and volumes have been written on this. But here's a few reasons why. Number one, if you're reading Romans 9 straight through, it's hard to come to any other conclusion whatsoever.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I don't think you can. Man can.

[Paul Cunningham]

Actually, it's going to be a bit of a longer story, but you mind if I read it because I think people need to hear it who are wrestling with this this Romans 9, 10, 18. This is actually an excerpt from Romans 9. And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, which would include things like placing their faith in anything in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls. She was told, the older will serve the younger as it is written. Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part by the way, on that as little excerpt, I've never heard an Armenian be accused of unfairness over injustice. Something to consider. I've only heard one camp usually accused of unfairness or injustice. And that's exactly the premise that Paul now has to counteract. Okay, by no means. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I'll have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So it then does not depend on human will or exertion, but on God who has mercy. And then skipping down a few verses, he he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he will. So that's one big thing. Romans 9 A second big thing is often people who are more Arminian or more conditional election would point to the idea of hey, foreknowledge. It says those he foreknew. He also predestined a couple big problems with that. Number one is that often that idea of foreknowing or knowledge has to do not with knowledge of future events, although it sometimes can, but that of God setting his love on a particular group of people. So like for example Amos3:2, you speaking of Israel, his chosen people, you only have I known of all the families on earth. Well, that can't be just general knowledge. He knows everybody. It's the idea of he put his covenantal relationship love and chose them. And then Also in Romans 11:2, God uses for no for that exact same idea too. Romans 11:2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. And again in context, that simply can't mean the idea of oh, he knew that they were going to respond. What were they responding to? His choice to elect them as his people. So is there a few big reasons Why I would be a person who says I believe it is unconditional election, not conditional election. And so we don't have to put the back up on the screen. But where this matters and when we talk about the idea of regeneration or conversion. Regeneration is the idea of being born again. The idea of the Holy Spirit has to make you alive. Ephesians 2 says we are dead in our sins before Christ and then the Holy Spirit then has to make us alive consistently. When you look in Scripture, that is something that comes before conversion, not after conversion. I have a list of verses if we need to, but I don't think we have time. We're trying to make it a little bit fast. So now the, the 5 million objections and questions that can come.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I am going to. Let me. I'll just dub to actually let me just go at it. But Paul. Yes. Doesn't the Bible specifically say that God wants all men to be saved first Thessalonians. And that God takes no delight in the death of the wicked? Yes, you heretic.

[Paul Cunningham]

Goodness, I know. So a few things here. Number one, and it says something similar, first Timothy 2, 4. God desires all people to be saved and come to acknowledge the truth.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Oh, you're good.

[Paul Cunningham]

And come to acknowledge the truth. People often forget then to read second Timothy, which says that God may perhaps grant them repentance. Listen to this. Leading to a knowledge of the truth. Almost the exact same phrasing. So to that point, if we have to say, if, if God wants all people to do that and it says that God can grant repentance, then why doesn't he? Why doesn't he? So then that leads to the question of this sense of we. We often distinguish a couple things in this conversation. Number one would be the idea of God's moral will or his revealed will.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Right. This is huge. If you're listening, listen close right here.

[Paul Cunningham]

It's a really important distinction. Let's actually take it off of this conversation of election predestination. Let's take it to a specific event. Did God say thou shalt not murmur murder? Of course, of course. That says moral will, his revealed will. And yet the Bible clearly says that the murder of his son was part of his plan.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It literally doesn't, isn't it? Yeah.

[Paul Cunningham]

Acts four.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It literally predestined.

[Paul Cunningham]

It says predetermined. And even this is, I'll go to say, and I should have said this earlier when we're talking about this, we still have to maintain this tension that the Bible does and we can never lose this tension. God is 100 sovereign. We are 100 responsible. We are not robots. We are responsible. Acts 4 holds it side by side. It says that the Jews and Gentiles conspired against Jesus, which involved his death. And by the way, that was a sin. And it was one thing that the entire early part of Acts caused him to repent of. And yet, in that same exact sentence, it says, and they did what your predetermined hand and plan led them to do. It's a both, and it's not an either or. But, like, that's an example where you'd say, hey, was it God's will for anyone to murder one? No. But yet, was it part of God's will to have that happen? Yes. Yes. And so in one sense, we would say man, of course, God desires everyone to submit to faith and align. But somehow, as part. Part of his. What's called his hidden will or his. His will of decree or his plan, it is somehow not a part of that as well.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah. So, like, let me click on this and let's go to the next objection. So, Deuteronomy. Here's what you need to get, man. Deuteronomy 20, 29. 29. It says, the secret things belong to the Lord, but the things that are revealed belong to us and our children. Okay? The sovereign hidden will of God. God has planned how history is going to unfold. That's like, you can't. There can't even be an eschatology in Book of Revelation unless God is in control of the future. Okay? So the hidden will of God, that's a secret thing that belongs to the Lord, who God is going to save. And all the things. That's a hidden thing. But then the things that are revealed belong to us in our children, what's been revealed. Go share the gospel with everybody.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's good.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And then why don't you focus on your job? Let God focus on his job and just do the sides of the street, streets. So Charles Spurgeon was asked one time, hey, man, how do you reconcile divine sovereignty and human responsibility or free will? And his response was, I don't reconcile, friends. He's like, I don't gotta understand it, man. Let me just say this is where people get all tripped up, is they start taking all the verses about divine sovereignty, and they, like, they almost use them to negate all the verses about human responsibility or free will. Or they take all the verses over here and use them to negate the verses over here. Hey, man, just have the humility to go dude, if God is the size of the Pacific Ocean and my mind's the size of a Coke can, there's going to be some things that don't fit. And here's what I know. God's going to save people. And that predestination is the thing. It's in the Bible. And here's what I also know. I'm supposed to get out there and share the gospel with everybody I can. And the more times I share it, the more people are going to get saved.

[Paul Cunningham]

And that's where even on this, we're going to go into the injustice question next. I don't know how much time I got. Yeah, go ahead and I'll tie them all together.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's not fair. It's not fair that he would some and not others.

[Carlos Araswan]

We all need a vote.

[Paul Cunningham]

Thanks. The reason, the reason I brought that up is because one point I was going to make is that actually when I really begin pressing my Armenian brothers and sisters, I say, hey, you and I actually believe almost the exact same thing. I'm just willing to apply it to all things you're not. And so here's a few things. So let's say you're. You're an Armenian. Okay. And let's. We'd be having this conversation because usually I do two things from talking about the unfair. The unfairness. Objection. One would be, hey, was it unfair and unjust for God to punish David for the census that the Bible says God incited David to take?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah. This is. If you're on a super theology nerd, what we're talking about is compatibilism.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

There's one part of it and we probably don't have time to get in, but you'll get these verses like that, where one account will show things from the divine perspective. And it will specifically say that God incited David to take a census that was sinful.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yep.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And then the other. That's first Kings and Samuel. It's Kings and Samuel.

[Paul Cunningham]

I think it says Satan did it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It says Satan did it. Well, how you know?

[Paul Cunningham]

Well, Rehoboam. Was it bad for Rehoboam? And again, I'm gonna pretend you are many. Was it bad for Rehoboam to listen to the foolish counselors that are his agency? Yes. And yet it says that it was a turn of events brought about by the Lord.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

And then usually what I'll do here is just follow me for a second. I'd say, hey, you've got, I think at least three, but three main options you can say that, hey, that's not how God normally works. I'm like, yes, but your argument is it's unjust if he did it. So are you telling me that God is only unjust 1% of the time? Because that's a problem. That's a problem. And they're like, no, how to use it? I don't like that option. I'm like, okay, option two is you could say, well, I just don't believe that part of the Bible. I think it was added in. I think it was made up. Oh, so now you believe the Bible is theirs. Also not a good option. So here's where I go with. I'm like, okay, here's an option you can believe and you're gonna say, it's a mystery. I can't fully explain it. That somehow they did. The people that did those things did exactly what they wanted to do, and yet God also had them do exactly what he wanted them to do. In the same way that when we wrote scripture, the authors used all their grammar, all the things that they wanted to say, and yet was also what the Holy Spirit wanted to say. So, hey, what they wanted to do, they did. And yet what God wanted to happen happened. And like, yes, that's that. I like that. And I'm like, awesome. I hate to break it to you, that's exactly what Calvinists believe.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Except we just extend it to all things, period. And so that's one thing I usually say is, hey, the injustice and unfairness part, that's not a Calvinism issue, that's a Christian issue. Not that God isn't fair. We don't believe he is. But these wrestlings that we have, actually, we all have to answer those questions. And that's why I brought those examples. The second thing, honestly, people don't usually like this answer is that Paul addresses this in Romans 9.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

He does.

[Paul Cunningham]

And when he addresses the issue unfairness, you know what his response is? Yeah, who are you? Are you the clay to save the potter? What he can and can't do? And so I think we do have to remember there is total room for us to ask questions and total room for us to wrestle with questions about God. But in the Bible, there does seem to be this pattern that when we begin to question God's character of why he doesn't do certain things, that's a big deal. God lays the hammer down like you go to the book of Job, and Job is fine to ask questions, but he starts to get over the line with Those questions and God, you're unjust, and basically I want to put you on trial. And God shows up and dresses him down for a few. Now he restores them, so he doesn't leave him there. But same thing here is Paul actually anticipates this objection. You know what Paul doesn't do? He doesn't spend 10 minutes. Well, let me go into a philosophical conversation around free will and how it solves this thing. He just says, hey, man, it's a mystery. Who are you to tell God what he can and cannot do?

[Carlos Araswan]

That's interesting.

[Paul Cunningham]

So people don't like that answer, but it's the biblical answer.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So the question that people have is, let me say this, and then let's move on, talk about bad bunny, and give rock super wrong. The question that people end up with is, well, dude, if that's true, then why should I share the gospel with anybody? God already knows who's going to get. Knows he's going to get saved. Let me say a couple things here, and then if you want to put a bow on it, y' all can.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So I'll be honest, man. If everybody's around Lake Point, you know, like, I am rabidly evangelistic. We baptized 3,100 people last year. I'm constantly doing invitations. All things. Here's the deal. We. We do evangelism, A, because we're commanded to, and B, because God says when we do it, it's going to work.

[Carlos Araswan]

Work.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's like, I don't really need anything else.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Again, the secret things belong to the Lord. I'm going to let God do his job.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I'm going to do my job. I'm going to do my job. And here's what I would say that people don't understand. From the depths of my soul, I cannot tell you how true this is for me. I am considerably more confident when I do evangelism because I believe this doctrine. And here's what I mean. Okay, check this out. The example I always give is, in Acts 18, Paul has just got stoned, okay? The. The rock's not puffer pass. He's just got stoned. And the Holy Spirit comes to him. And what he says to Paul in Acts 18 is, he says, I'm gonna read it. Do not be afraid. Keep on speaking. Do not be silent. Check this out. Verse 10. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack you and harm you. Why? Because I have many people in this city. Now, here's what's really Interesting. At this point, point, almost no one is saved in the city. So what? Almost every Bible scholar thinks this messenger, the Holy Spirit is saying to Paul, he's just saying, hey man, you keep going. Yeah, I've already decided I'm gonna save a whole bunch of people in this city. So you know when you step out and you preach, it's gonna work. Why? Because I am. So I can save him, but I want to.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And I promise you can happen. So here's, so here's the deal, man. The analogy that you need to have in your head is that this is a OG sermon illustration. So you got verses that say things like chosen from before the foundations of the earth. And then you got verses like in Revelation, whosoever will may come. So what somebody said is, imagine that you're walking past heaven and you see a big doorway into heaven, and on the outside of it you see a sign that says, whosoever will, may come come. And you see it and you're like, I'm in, I want it. He says, it's as if as soon as you walk through that door, you look back up over your shoulder and on the backside of the doorway it says, chosen from before the foundations of the earth. And both are true. Yes. Whosoever will may come. And whoever comes chosen from before the foundations of the earth. I don't gotta understand it for it to be true. It's in a Bible.

[Paul Cunningham]

Amen. And I think with that then we can get to it. It's like God ordains the means, not just the ends. It's like Romans 9, Romans 11, you get the ends, but in Romans 10 is where we get how they believe in him whom they've never heard. So Paul didn't divorce these things, so we shouldn't either. And then an illustration I like is, I'm like, hey, just go out to a graveyard and start convincing people to raise from the dead.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Come up with a 10 minute really good thing with a lot of analogies. No point of that is if Ephesians 2 says that those apart from Christ are dead in their sins. Actually if I'm sharing because connections to evangelism what we shared earlier, if I'm sharing the gospel with someone but I believe this person is dead in their sins, there's nothing I can say good enough that where I need someone who can raise the dead to do that. Well, guess what? I know a God who can raise the dead to do that.

[Carlos Araswan]

Yeah, you and I can change somebody's mind. Only God can change their soul.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's right.

[Carlos Araswan]

And he's really good at it. Praise the Lord.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amen.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, now that Pastor Paul has told us that Bad Bunny and Kid Rock were predestined to play at the super.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Bowl this year, let's talk about that. All right, this is. We got. We had a really good discussion on this before the pond, so let's bring it into the pond. So here's what we're gonna do. Essentially, we're gonna react to the reactions. We're gonna react to the reactions on the super bowl because there was a lot of confusion on this thing. Carlos, you want to set it up? Take this.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, first of all, let me just address the elephant in the room. You know, obviously, like, there's a lot of things that have been said because of Bad Bunny playing in the super bowl. And one of the. The main things that have been said is, man, a lot of people are upset that they did not understand Bud Bunny because he's speaking Spanish. And they're like, well, I don't speak Spanish, and I just, you know, I don't understand. Here's what I would say. Say I am a. A speaker. I'm a. I'm a fluent Spanish speaker. I don't even understand what he said. Like. Like, I honestly, like, he's. He's a mumble rapper.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Like, he.

[Carlos Araswan]

He just like. Like, that's what he does. And so you're not alone.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

If.

[Carlos Araswan]

If that's you, that's okay. I didn't understand it either. So just so you know, we have a video that we want to react to. That's probably the first one. This is Megan Kelly.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Oh, Megan Kelly.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Coming in hot.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Okay, so let me set this up. This is how I think a lot of people felt, and I understand why, but she's wrong, so I think she's wrong. So let's go ahead and do it. I'm sorry, Pierce, but to get up there and perform the whole show in Spanish is a middle finger to the rest of America. Who gives a that? We have 40 million Spanish speakers in the United States. We have 310 million who don't speak a lick of Spanish. This is supposed to be a unifying event for the country, not for the Latinos, not for one small group, but for the country. We don't need a black national answer. We don't need a Spanish speaking, non English performing performer, and we don't need an Ice or America hater featured as our primetime entertainment. All right, you can pause right there. So let me just say, first of all, can I just say something that you guys may disagree with? And we disagree. That's fine. I understand why she feels that way. Way, in fact, I understand why and I know why she feels that way. So first of all, I'll give an example of this. People tend to view things through the lens of what problem they're trying to solve. That's just, you know, as a leader, what I've noticed that and what a lot of Americans, especially white Americans, what they've done is they've watched like for the last, probably since about 2015, is when the woke thing really took off, off. And basically whenever, you know, you kind of felt this during those years when everybody's talking diversity, diversity, diversity, di, di, di, that kind of thing, what they're really saying is not white people. That, you know, as. As awkward as that is to say that's what it means. What it really means is we need less white men. That's how intersectionality works. For everything that you are, that is not white and a man, that's good. And then if you are especially white, cisgender, heterosexual, male, Christian, conservative, you're Darth Vader, right? So that's like what everybody's feeling. So then, you know, I think you have some of that going on. I'll show you another thing now. I'm going to disagree with her here in a second. So what I'm doing is I'm saying I understand why she feels that way, but she's. I think she's wrong. I'll give you another example. Play that thing. So this is just one example of this. Okay, Play that thing. You see the intersectionality vibe kind of come out, and sometimes people would just kind of go mask off and they'll say what's actually happening out loud. And it's like, holy Moses, play that deal. So this is a state representative guy named Gene Wu. This went like mega viral this week. This is why I think people like Megyn Kelly feels how she feels. Go and play that thing. I always tell people the day the Latino, African American, Asian and other communities realize that they are. That they share the same oppressor. Plus guess who the oppressor is. White Christian men. That's who it is. So that's the. That's the. And you're going to see it in the rest of what he says is the day we start winning. Because we are the majority in this country now. We are. We. We have the ability to take over this country.

[Paul Cunningham]

Country.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And to do what is needed for everyone and to make things fair. But the problem is our communities are divided. They're completely divided. Yeah, you can take it. And I talk about. So you. I mean, dude, honestly, you just heard it. He's like. He's. What? He's gone is. And there are people. It is undeniable. There are people, particularly on the progressive side of things, who have actually enacted a strategy to flood the zone with, you know, mass migration and then go. Amnesty is kind of what happened in California. Actually. A lot of people don't know this. Under Reagan, a lot of people don't know California was a red state. Reagan enacted amnesty at scale, and ever since then, boom, it's been blue ever since. So what you got, you know, if. If you're hearing that and you're seeing that and you're like, man, it kind of feels like this. Again, people tend to view things through the lens of the problem they're trying to solve. And I think somebody like Megyn Kelly on the conservative side of things, so then she sees, you know, this. It's a Hispanic deal, and the whole thing's in Spanish. She's viewing it through the lens she's trying to solve, and she's like, this was a middle finger. Now what I say is, no, it wasn't. And the reason I say that, and people may disagree with me, and that's fine. Honestly, man, here's what's happening. The NFL is trying to expand their market share to Hispanic markets. They're trying to get more eyeballs like any other business. And you can disagree with the strategy whether that. Whether or not that was the best thing to do. But what they're trying to do is get more Hispanic people watching the NFL so they can make more money. That's what businesses do.

[Carlos Araswan]

They're trying to go international. At the end of the day, Bad Bunny is, you know, top, like five in the world. Like, he's huge.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Is he really?

[Carlos Araswan]

Like, is he. He's massive. He's like 100, over 100 million monthly listeners. He's worldwide. He's not Pitbull. Geez, Mr. Worldwide. But, you know, if you got it, that's okay. Clearly, this is not the. You know, it's okay. But yeah, so he's here. So it's a business.

[Paul Cunningham]

The nickelback of pop music.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

The Nickelback of pop music.

[Paul Cunningham]

I'll let you decide whether that's a good or bad thing.

[Carlos Araswan]

I don't know, man.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So here's the thing that you gotta watch out for. If you're a Christian. I wanna keep Going back to this man, you gotta decide, am I a Christian conservative or am I a conservative Christian? And here's a. Watch out. I'm gonna give. Okay, so you gotta decide, does your conservative trump your Christian or does your Christian trump your conservative? Now, I'm gonna say something. A lot of people, they don't like it, but it's just, this is reality. There's. There is simply not a way, I don't think, to read the Bible in our current American kind of political schema and not understand that in general, the publicly stated policies of the left and the publicly stated policy proposals of the right have possess a significant moral asymmetry. So Christian ethics translated into public policy is going to look more. It's going to put you more on the right than it is on the left. So Christians should be. In the modern political schema. Christians should be conservative. Honestly, I'm just going to say it. They should. They should be conservative in the modern political scheme. But you've got to decide, okay, now that I know that, which one trumps the other one? Whenever modern American political conservatism is at odds with Christian ethics, which one wins? Do I check my Christianity to stick with the conservatism? Or what we are is we're on Team Jesus. And whenever those things conflict with each other, am I like, hey, man, dude, am I still, you know, am I still kind of leaning conservative? Is that where I fit? Yeah, it is. But I'm a Christian before I'm conservative, so my Christianity trumps the conservatism. The conservatism doesn't trump my Christianity. Yes, keep going. Let's have more other thoughts.

[Carlos Araswan]

Is that the whole clip? I think that's the whole clip, right? I have some thoughts about it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah. It's the whole thought.

[Paul Cunningham]

Before we get to the other clip, I just want to say the whole thing. Oh, it's supposed to unify the country.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[Paul Cunningham]

Every year, you know what people argue over the most is whether they liked or disliked the halftime show, no matter who was singing. And by the way, like, I think like a quarter of the ones over the past 20 years, people been from, like, the UK and other places. And so I'm just saying, like, I just laughed when I heard that. I'm like, dude, like, that's the. Everyone is going to disagree on it at some point. And so, yeah, those are. That was just a funny thought, you know, one.

[Carlos Araswan]

I get it. It's social media. I understand. You know, the. The more extreme, the more clicks you get. And, you know, I'm sure if we were to have a conversation with her, she could clarify what she actually means by everything that, you know. That's one, two. I would just say, you know, this year's super bowl, the reason why a lot of Hispanics obviously liked it is because it was in many ways a celebration of a lot of elements. Not all, but a lot of elements, as we will see, of Hispanic culture. So, like, if you think about it, in the last couple years, who played the super bowl in the halftime show? It was Kendrick Lamar, Usher, Rihanna, Dr. Dre, and Snoop Dogg. We saw a celebration of black culture.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I was there for the Snoop Dogg. I was at that Super Bowl. It was. It was Snoop 50 Cent.

[Carlos Araswan]

Eminem.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Eminem, that's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

Mary J. Blige.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Mary J. Blige. I felt like it was. It was like I was back in high school is what it felt like.

[Carlos Araswan]

And so, you know, again, there are cultural elements that were celebrated because it's, again, in this case, black culture this year. It just, it was, it was Hispanic culture. It was Latino culture. And part of Hispanic culture is obviously speaking Spanish. And so here's what I would say too. I mean, speaking to her, she nodded to this. But the Hispanics are the biggest minority group in the U.S. that's a fact. There's actually more Hispanic people than black people in the US black people is like 14%. It's actually projected that by 2050, one out of three people will be Hispanic. It's just, you know, and so I'm not saying everybody has to like this. I'm just saying, saying this is what is. And most Hispanics today in the US Are actually US Born Hispanics. And so this is literally like all they know. It's just. And so for, you know, some people get nervous about this because they think, well, you know, foreigners. And one more thing for people that say that Bad Bunny is a foreigner, actually Bad Bunny is from Puerto Rico.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah.

[Carlos Araswan]

And again, some people don't know this, but he. If you're from Puerto Rico, you're. You're a U.S. citizen. People born in Puerto Rico are U.S. citizens since. By birth, since the Jones act of 1917. Unlike, for example, Rihanna, who was. Who is from Barbados, unlike the Weeknd, who is Canadian, unlike Shakira, who is Colombian, unlike Coldplay, who is from the uk we actually had an American citizen play the super bowl this year.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I see what you did there. Hilarious.

[Carlos Araswan]

And so, again, I'm not saying that you have to like it. I'm just saying this is what is. And here's what I would say, you know, because I understand the concern when you see a bunch of flags, you know, I would say for especially the vast majority of Hispanic population in the US who are US born Hispanics, these are not people who hate America and want to replace it with their own culture. These are people who love America and listen to this, are also grateful for their ladino heritage that comes with a strong emphasis on Christian faith, marriage, family.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Traditional, biblically defined family, traditional family, community.

[Carlos Araswan]

And we can debate as to what this looks like practically, but assimilation and heritage are not mutually exclusive.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, say that one more time.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's really important.

[Carlos Araswan]

Assimilation and celebration of your cultural heritage are not mutually exclusive. And so that means that I can love. In fact, if you're a Christian, you are to seek the welfare of your city, of your country. And so we want to assimilate in this country and we are excited to celebrate our cultural heritage. And that's salsa. That's some of the elements that you saw in the show. That's why I think a lot of Hispanics are like, man, that's. That was amazing in that sense.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right. So I'm gonna say some, like, let me, let me do some like, un PC things and then we'll just see if we edit it out. So like, so like, again, so I want to acknowledge why people feel like she feels. You know, I think because somebody like Megyn Kelly, she's a little older than me. I think what some Americans are feeling is because of some of the mass migration. I think what they're feeling is like, honestly, like a loss of place where they're like, dude, like, man, it's like, I love my country and you know, the country I grew up in, like, you know, part of that cultural heritage that we have is like, just speaking English and it's American culture, that kind of thing. And so then they're looking around at some of the downstream effects of mass migration, particularly mass illegal immigration. They're going, man, I kind of feel like I lost my country. And let me just say, heads up, it's okay for Americans to want America to feel American. There's nothing wrong with that. Now, on the other hand, what you gotta watch out for is, again, you can't let the conservative trump the Christian. And what you can't do is start letting that translate into like a dislike of all other cultures in opposition to that. The other thing that I would say, and this is the really unpeacey part, and you guys can disagree with this and you can be like, I disavow Josh Allerton. So, honestly, dude, you're talking about assimilation. Here's what I think is happening a little bit more on the political right is people are seeing some of the mass migration, and then they're seeing. I'm just. This is a little awkward to say, but I'll just sort of say it. Like, they'll see especially mass migration from Muslim countries and people who are very committed Muslim, especially, like very conservative Muslims. And. And in general, one, there's some incompatibilities with committed Islam, like, actual committed Islam and American culture. There are some aspects of that that we've talked about before on the pod. I don't need to go there. That they are. Honestly, they're a bit of irreconcilable differences, and people will see that, and they'll be like. They'll say things like this. And again, I'm putting words in somebody else's mouth. Oh, these foreigners, they're not. As all these foreigners are not assimilating that kind of thing. Let me just say for some subsets of people who are coming to this country, that's true. Yes, for some subsets, it is true. But what a lot of people, I think don't understand, if you listen, you know, you're not in Dallas, you may not understand this as much as that we're around is, hey, man, like, in general, zoomed out, making generalizations. In general, zoomed out, dude, Hispanic people that immigrate here is totally different than, like, committed Muslims who are walking in the country and going, you know what we want to do? We want to take over Dearborn, Michigan. We want to rename all the streets into Arabic names. We want to establish Sharia courts in the city. We want to take down your churches and erect minarets. And then we actually want to prosecute people who want to mess with it. Like, they're actually trying to impose a fundamentally incompatible culture on top of they want to, like, honestly take over and dominate. That's part of what we always say is progressivism. Progressivism is a religion masquerading as a political ideology. Islam is a political ideology masquerading as a religion. And so then people, what they'll do is they'll, with an imprecision, be like, all these foreigners. Well, bro, if you know anything about Hispanic people who legally immigrate, they love this country. And there's a difference, because a lot of, like, when let's say Somalians, let's. You take the thing in Minneapolis, when committed Somali Muslims come, their culture is Built on top of Islam. So their values arise from Islam, so their culture is built on top of Islam, which creates cultural incompatibilities. What you'll notice is that Hispanic people, that. Come again, generalities. Hispanic cultures are very much built on top of Christianity, whether that's Catholicism, Protestantism or charismatic Protestantism. It's a very thoroughly Christian, which is why there is considerably more cultural compatibilism between the two. And they walk in the country going like, dude, I love this country. Proud to be an American. All the things you want to show your picture.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's right, yeah. So I'm just going to say this when I. I've been a US citizen now for, I think, I think six or seven years. I was born in El Salvador, came to the US like 15, 16 years ago. I became a US citizen and I was very happy about it. And I want to show you it. So show me the first photo. So here's the photo of like everybody swearing in. The people in the seats are basically becoming US Citizens.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Where is this? Where is this?

[Carlos Araswan]

This is.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

It's Michigan.

[Carlos Araswan]

No, Dallas.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Dallas. He went to college in Michigan.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's right. So zoom in. Trinity. One more. Okay, so keep zooming in.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Another one.

[Carlos Araswan]

Keep one more. Okay, that's me. That right there. It tells you how happy I am and how grateful I am. Listen, but here's how I see it, bro, that God brought me here, yes, to bless people and to be a blessing and to be blessed, but also to be a blessing. And so that's the joy of the Lord. Just saying, praise the Lord. All this to say, yes, agree. Latin America is like strongly Christian, strongly traditional family values. And man, we, you know, again, it's very different than the conversation with the Muslim.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Well, and just to. Just to be like, blunt, while we're talking about political binaries, like, very conservative values.

[Paul Cunningham]

Yes.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Like, in general, very conservative value. Family, gender, marriage, sexuality, religion, all the things.

[Paul Cunningham]

So, like, as a different application, what you said earlier to assimilation and heritage, just an example to kind of hopefully even for some people are still getting it. Like, man, when Irish people came over here, massive, massive resistance. Like, go watch Gangs of New York. Actually, be careful, don't watch that unless you're a grown adult. But I've never seen it, man. Massively against Irish people. And yet they, over time, they assimilated, became another part of the culture. And yet now we celebrate St. Patrick's Day in places like Chicago. They put up Irish flags. They, you know, literally make the river green and everything like that. So it's an example of how, like, you're content you can hold on to your heritage while also assimilating with the culture. Right. You. It doesn't have to be an either or. It can be a both. And I was got. And I was going to summarize what I'm hearing so far, but you want to weigh in on that real quick?

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

No.

[Carlos Araswan]

Well, I was going to go ahead.

[Paul Cunningham]

Finish the thing I was just summarizing so far because I know there's other angles we want to hit really for what both of you said is we got to be really careful not to conflate things that are legitimately worrisome and bad with things that are not that. And we conflate them and make them the same thing. So to the point is like, that we identify someone giving a performance at the halftime of the super bowl in Spanish and think that is a manifestation of this other thing that is bad. So we can critique this thing and go against this thing, but that doesn't mean that everything is one and the same as that is pretty much what we've been saying so far.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Araswan]

Yeah. And I think, you know, you voiced what some people feel, and it's legit, I would say what, when. When people out there will say things like, you know, I hate Spanish or, you know, speak English. Yeah, something like that. And. Or like foreigners are here to invade because there is a flag from some other country in the context of the super bowl celebrating Latino heritage. What a lot of people hear that are Hispanics is especially the vast majority of them who were actually born here. They're here in Mana. You don't want me here, but this is where I was born.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And I love this country.

[Carlos Araswan]

And I love this country.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I went through the whole process. It took me years and thousands of dollars to become a citizen.

[Carlos Araswan]

And is it because I just speak a different language? And so again, I'm sure that a lot of these voices, they don't necessarily believe that or mean that, but that's what people hear. Right. And so I think know there's something about, hey, let's, let's try to be precise with what you're trying to communicate and what you actually believe.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So I want to go back to something you said earlier. This is very insightful, and apply it because this is one that will trip Christians up. So you're talking about, hey, man, you said something very wise. You said, you said assimilation and celebration of cultural heritage are not mutually exclusive. So let me take that to the example of you're watching The. You're watching a Super bowl halftime show, by the way. I didn't. I watched the TPUSA thing. I'll talk about it here in a second. You're watching that and you see all these flags of other countries. And I think some people see that and they immediately think they're here in America and benefiting from America and they're more loyal to the other country than they are the one that they're receiving benefits from. Actually, no, that's not necessarily what that means. Hey, if you're here and you're a citizen, you're receiving. Benefiting from the country. Yeah. If you're a citizen of the country, your primary allegiance needs to be that country. Yes, it must. But just because you're celebrating the heritage from which you came doesn't mean that your loyalty is to that country over and above the one that you're a citizen of. Again, to go back to what Carlos said, assimilation and celebration of cultural heritage are not mutually exclusive. I think that's a big thing.

[Carlos Araswan]

We have a screenshot because there's another side to this super bowl that I think we should address.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

This next thing is why I didn't watch the halftime show.

[Carlos Araswan]

I was going to show the Washington Post.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Yeah, that's the one. That's the one.

[Carlos Araswan]

Okay, so this is what this says the Washington Post said. In general. I love that they start there.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

This is like mostly peaceful protests.

[Carlos Araswan]

I love it. I love it in general.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

In general.

[Carlos Araswan]

Bad Bunny. Super bowl halftime show had the kind of wholesome, traditional family values that would fit right in with some of the more sentimental commercials that appeared during the game.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

I beg your finest pod. Speaking of white culture, I beg your pine is po.

[Paul Cunningham]

But a foreign white culture isn't your. That's right.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's right across the pond.

[Carlos Araswan]

So I have some pots, but I want to let you go first.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Well, again, I'll just go back to. I beg you'll find us. We have very different definitions of traditional family values. Show that first picture. I almost want to censor it. First of all, you got two dudes grinding up against each other. It's disgusting. Take it down. You got this like, you know, it's like. Again, just like I don't want my 11 year old daughter seeing that, I guess doesn't feel very traditional family values. Then I'm just going to read to you the English translation of what was sung by Bad Bunny. Now for words that I refuse to say on a podcast or in my personal life. By the way, I'll just use the letter they start with. So this is what was sung. My D is being chased and I want you to hide it. Grab it like a bonga. I don't know what that is. She took a pill that made her. I'm not going to say that word either. She. I feel really weird right now.

[Carlos Araswan]

You can just like, omit the word.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And people can feel in the Audi, not in the Honda. He. If I give it to you, don't call me, because this is not to make you love me. Hey, if your boyfriend doesn't eat, I'm not even gonna say that. He better. Mm off. He really is a bad bunny. He's a very, very naughty bunny. Very not super traditional value there.

[Carlos Araswan]

Yeah. And again, this is where, like, there's a little bit of a just disagreement amongst Hispanic Christians. Cause people are like, oh, yeah, bad bunny. He's Hispanic. I feel represented. And then other people are like, Christians are like, well, it's bad bunny doing bad bunny things like what you just read. And I would say this again. There's a difference between things that represent Latino culture and things that denigrate, demean, hurt, and actually destroys Latino culture. There's the sign. The theological message from the event was this. Trina, can you pull it up? The only thing more powerful than hate, hate is love. And again, man, here's what I would say in a show where you have two men grinding women, twerking by an artist who is known for promoting blatant promiscuity, vulgarity, homosexuality, transgenderism, drunkenness, and more. And then you go ahead and you say, the only thing more powerful than hate is love. And I get emotional about this because I think it really deceives a lot of people. And here's what I would say. Hey, bro, what you're doing literally contradicts what you're saying. Saying promiscuity is not love.

[Paul Cunningham]

That's good.

[Carlos Araswan]

Denigration of women is not love. Glorifying a hypersexualized lifestyle, including to teenagers, especially to the culture that I was raised in, is not love. Confusing a generation about what it means to be a man or a woman is not love. Encouraging even a spirit of lawlessness is not love. Anything that contradicts the word of God is not love. And so. So I would say for people that are maybe used to listening to TikTok influencers about how they've redefined love, we need to go back to the word of God and see what God says about love. I actually agree. The one only thing more powerful than hate is love. 1 John 3:16. By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. God defines love, and his name is Jesus. Do not settle for a counterfeit, false version of what love is. Is. Preach.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

So well done.

[Paul Cunningham]

So good.

[Carlos Araswan]

So my warning or my gentle warning or watch out to especially Hispanic people seeing their flag and blessing a full event, saying, yes, that's it, that's us. I would say, man, it's okay. And it's fine to celebrate and identify with your culture, your heritage, your flag, our family values, our sense of community. It's a beautiful thing. It's not okay to identify with things that are inconsistent with your. Their highest identity. And that's a Jesus follower. That's a Christian. And so my highest allegiance and identity is not the country I was born in. It is the person whom I was born again through.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right. Oh, that's good, bro. Say it one more time. Say it one more time.

[Carlos Araswan]

My highest allegiance and identity is not the country that I was born in. It is the person whom I was born again through reach. And that's Jesus.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

And that's.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's going to change everything.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Preach.

[Paul Cunningham]

And that last line you said, by the way, applies to every single Christian in the world.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right, dude.

[Paul Cunningham]

Including. That's the whole point you were making earlier, is that the idea between a conservative Christian and a Christian conservative.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Paul Cunningham]

It's like what we just said applies to everyone. And we were speaking obviously specifically into Hispanic, Latino culture, but it's the same thing for any culture. So, like, when you're talking about previous artists, places that were would glorify stuff that was also moral, they're basically taking something that is not good and attaching it to what actually is good and that taints it is pretty much what you're trying to say. And so, yeah, I got a final thought.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Come on, Mandate. Come on.

[Carlos Araswan]

Because we're talking about evangelism. And I would say some people think Bad Bunny is actually closer to becoming a Christian than others might think. Again, Latin American culture is very Christian, so I'm sure he's been exposed to the gospel. I'm sure he has family members that are praying for him. I'm sure. I think he's close. And in fact, there's a video. We don't have it here. We don't need to play it. But there's a video that right before his performance, he's like praying or kind of doing this that God this is for you. And so here's what I would say for anybody, not just white or Hispanic or black or whatever. People condemning him in a way that is. Man, I would never do that. You know, I would say, man, pray for him. Pray for a bad bunny. And there was a video. Trini, can you pull that video? So before you play it, Daddy Yankee, for people that don't know, is like the biggest name. I. I can't. You know, he's like the biggest artist in Latin America, also known for super dirty music.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

He.

[Carlos Araswan]

He's. He has a song called Casolina. Again, super dirty. I'm not even gonna try to sing it. But. But he became a Christian and his life was radically changed. And he was asked because I would say he was even bigger than Bad Bunny. Hey, if Bad Bunny invites you to play with him, that your famous song about again, it's about grinding with women and other things. Supervisor Viral, this is what he said. Let's play it.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

If he were to ask you to perform Gasolina at Super bowl, would you.

[Daddy Yankee]

Oh, no, not right now. Not right now.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

No, no. Good job.

[Daddy Yankee]

No, right now. Because I'm on a different mission right now. But even though I respect what I'm. What he's doing right now, don't get me wrong, Benito's is an ally and I love it. He's for Puerto Rico. And, and actually we were talking yesterday, I told you him, y' all wish you the best. Go there and do your best, and we're proud of you. But it's different. I'm in a different mission right now. It's different. So I gotta represent what I'm doing right now 100%. So if he asked me to perform, son real, that's different, you know, Christian. Okay, I'm go there, I'm gonna. Okay, let's do some reale for the rest of the world. And I'm gonna send a message. That's what I'm saying. I would love to do it, you know, but because, you know, I respect his creative decision. I respect everything that he's doing right now. And it's very important for Spanish speaking community for the Latinos. The first time that somebody's gonna sing in Spanish and that's beautiful, you know what I'm saying? And he's from Puerto Rico and like, I'm telling him, we're proud of what you're doing. And I think the biggest touchdown on his career will be where he has accept Jesus in his life. That's the line, bro.

[Carlos Araswan]

He's that's the line.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Let's go.

[Carlos Araswan]

That's the biggest. So today we pray that God can save Bad Bunny and transform him.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Carlos, would you close us by praying for exactly that?

[Carlos Araswan]

Heavenly Father, we thank you so much because you remind us today that our identities, above everything else, about where we come from, where we were born, about any flag, ultimately we serve the King of Kings, and that's Jesus. Ultimately, we are sons and daughters of Christ.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

That's right.

[Carlos Araswan]

Of God. And so, Lord, we thank youk because youe're good. Lord, we pray right now for Bad Bunny, and we pray that you may that yout, the Hound of heaven, can save his soul, can change his life, can offer him something infinitely more beautiful, and that's a relationship with youh. Lord, I pray for that we may continue to learn from each other as we have some of these conversations. What does it mean to be Jesus followers and then also love our nation and love our neighbor? Father, give us wisdom to be a reflection of who you are, that we may do so with humility, with conviction, with boldness as well. I pray for people listening as well. May we be emboldened and encouraged to share the Gospel, to be bold in faith as the world is bold in their sin. Thank you, Father, for your word. We love you, and we pray this in your name, Jesus Christ. Amen.

[Pastor Josh Howerton]

Amen.

[Carlos Araswan]

Sam.