Podcast Summary: "How we ACTUALLY got the Bible!? (NOT what most people think!)"

Podcast: Live Free with Pastor Josh Howerton
Host: Lakepointe Church
Episode Date: July 28, 2025
Guests: Pastor Josh Howerton, Paul Cunningham (Theologian), Carlos Araso

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode is a dynamic conversation aimed at dispelling common myths about how the Bible—particularly the New Testament—was formed, addressing misconceptions popularized in culture and media. The hosts also explore related themes of therapy, forgiveness, emotional health, and how Christian life is rooted in both biblical truth and real-world experience. The goal: to equip believers with confidence in the Bible’s reliability, encourage healthy approaches to emotional and spiritual wounds, and give practical advice on living out forgiving relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Church Growth and News (03:00–06:00)

• Brief celebration of the church’s growth and the successful launch of Lakepointe’s Sunnyvale campus, highlighting stories of church mergers and the spiritual fruit (e.g., baptisms).
• Illustration: The merging of smaller churches leads to significant growth (average 900%), showing the power of unity in the body of Christ.

2. Therapy, Culture, and the Christian Response

a. The Rise of a Therapeutic Culture (08:41–13:00)

• Discussion sparked by themes from "Saving Mr. Banks" (forgiveness, family wounds).
• Pastor Josh cautions: “For every one mile of road, there’s two miles of ditch.” The culture swings to extremes, such as blaming parents for all problems.
• Quote:
  “[T]here’s the Word and there’s the world. And you got to decide, does the world stand in authority over the word or does the word stand in authority over the world?”
  —Josh Howerton (09:40)

b. Avoiding the Danger of Blame-shifting (10:49)

• Referencing Ezekiel 18, God rebukes the proverb "The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge", highlighting the biblical warning against totalizing blame on family of origin.

c. The Value of Therapy—When and How? (13:00–18:15)

• Paul Cunningham shares candidly about family dysfunction and counseling’s role in his healing.
• Both Paul and Josh clarify: Good therapy, anchored in godly wisdom, helps untangle the “ball of yarn” of inner pain, but therapy can also be unhelpful or even damaging.
• Christians should approach counseling with discernment—seeking counselors who share biblical grounding.
• Quote:
  “What you’re doing...is you’re asking them to disciple you at some level...So what we want to do as Christians is...make sure that we're getting wise and godly counsel…”
  —Josh Howerton (15:10)

d. Culture’s Obsession with Therapy & Its Limits (18:15–25:00)

• Addressing data: Despite the rise of therapy, anxiety and depression are higher than ever (referencing Abigail Shrier’s "Bad Therapy").
• Concerns include:
  • Therapy undermining parent-child relationships by encouraging children to mistrust parents
    – Over-pathologizing normal problems, concept creep (everything becoming “trauma” or “abuse”)
  • Therapists, in secular culture, replacing pastors and even parents as authority figures
  • Excessive navel-gazing hampering life skills (Centipede’s Dilemma: Over-reflection impedes healthy action)
• Quote:
  “In a secular culture, the therapists replace the pastors...people look to therapists as secular priests...”
  —Josh Howerton (19:32)

3. Forgiveness: Biblical Mandate and Emotional Health

a. Emotions: Dashboard, Not Pilot (31:19)

• Emotions are valuable cues but poor guides—listen to them as data, but let faith and commitments steer your life.
• Quote:
  “Emotions make a great dashboard, they make a terrible pilot.”
  —Josh Howerton (31:22)

b. Forgiveness—What It Is and Is Not (33:42–44:51)

• Forgiveness is NOT:
  • Forgetting the offense
  • Waiting for an apology
  • Ceasing to feel pain
  • A one-time event
  • The same as trust (which must be rebuilt)
  • Always reconciliation (depends on both parties)
• Quotes:
  “You cannot carry a cross and a grudge at the same time.”
  —Josh Howerton (46:45)
  “Unforgiveness is deciding to push pause on something terrible that was done to you...and just live there.”
  —Paul Cunningham (34:55)

c. The Spiritual Dynamics of Unforgiveness (35:24–37:55)

• Deep biblical linkage between bitterness, unforgiveness, and demonic activity—“Hell is the place where nobody’s forgiven and heaven is the place where everybody’s forgiven.”

d. Practical Steps to Forgive (45:09–49:03)

• Step 1: Be brutally honest about what happened.
• Step 2: Take your pain to the cross—justice is either paid by Christ or will be paid by the wrongdoer; your role is to let go.
• Forgiveness sets you free—it is not weakness.

4. "How Did We Get The Bible?": Responding to Cultural Myths

a. Viral Podcast Clip: Debunking Constantine Myths (57:54–82:55)

Common Myths Debunked:

• Myth 1: Constantine created Christianity and made Jesus its "mascot".
  • Fact: Christianity pre-dates Constantine by centuries; Jesus is the founder, not a mascot.
• Myth 2: Constantine made Christianity the official religion and decided Jesus was God.
  • Fact: He legalized Christianity (Edict of Milan, 313), didn’t make it official (that was Theodosius in 380), and belief in Jesus’ divinity is present in Scripture and early church history.
  • Evidence: The Megiddo mosaic (230 AD) refers to Jesus as God, predating Constantine.
• Myth 3: Constantine created Sunday worship.
  • Fact: Christians were gathering on Sunday to celebrate the resurrection long before Constantine (supported by Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Revelation 1:10).
• Myth 4: Constantine compiled and ‘made up’ the Bible.
  • Fact: New Testament canon wasn’t ratified until council of Hippo (393 AD) & Carthage (397 AD), decades after Constantine’s death. The canon was recognized organically by the early church, not created arbitrarily.
  • Key criteria for New Testament inclusion:
    1. Apostolic authorship or close association
    2. Universal acceptance (catholicity)
    3. Alignment with established Christian teaching (orthodoxy)
  • Examples: Mark (from Peter), Luke/Acts (from Paul), Hebrews (possibly Apollos), Jude (Jesus’ brother)
  • Quote:
    “We didn’t create the Bible any more than Newton created gravity...the church recognized the word of God that was already authoritative.”
    —Paul Cunningham (82:14, 82:43)

b. The Apocrypha (71:01–79:26)

• Why Protestant and Catholic Bibles differ.
  • Protestants exclude certain intertestamental books (Apocrypha) due to lack of apostolic association, lack of widespread acceptance, and doctrinal variance (e.g., teachings like purgatory).
  • Even Jerome, who assembled the Latin Vulgate, doubted the Apocrypha’s authority.
  • The Apocrypha was not formally canonized by the Catholic Church until the Council of Trent (16th century), mainly in response to the Protestant Reformation.

5. Finale & Takeaway

• The Bible is God’s revelation, not mere human speculation.
• The criteria for NT canon stand up to scrutiny.
• Christians can trust the reliability, authenticity, and authority of Scripture.

Memorable Conclusion:
“Hell is the place where nobody’s forgiven and heaven is the place where everybody’s forgiven. So when we forgive, we pull heaven down into our lives, but when we choose not to forgive, we pull hell up into our lives.” —Josh Howerton (37:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:00 | Lakepointe Church growth and merger testimony | | 08:41 | Introduction to therapy, trauma, and forgiveness from "Saving Mr. Banks" | | 13:00 | Paul Cunningham shares his story with family wounds and therapy | | 18:15 | Discussion of therapy’s limitations; cultural data on rising anxiety/depression | | 27:23 | Over-reflection and the “centipede’s dilemma” | | 31:19 | Emotions: dashboards vs. pilots | | 33:42 | Defining forgiveness: What it is and isn’t | | 45:09 | Practical steps for forgiving those who've wronged you | | 57:54 | Reacting to Andrew Schulz/Charlamagne/Young Turks on the origin of the Bible | | 63:59 | How the New Testament canon was recognized: criteria and process | | 71:01 | The Apocrypha: Protestant vs. Catholic scriptures | | 82:14 | Recognizing vs. creating the Bible | | 84:16 | Why “lost gospels” (e.g. Gospel of Thomas) aren’t biblical canon | | 85:04 | Closing application: Bible as God’s revelation; equipping to defend the faith |

Notable Quotes and Moments

• “What you’re doing…is you’re asking them [a counselor] to disciple you at some level… So what we want to do as Christians is… make sure that we're getting wise and godly counsel…”
  —Josh Howerton (15:10)

• “Hell is the place where nobody’s forgiven and heaven is the place where everybody’s forgiven. So when we forgive, we pull heaven down into our lives, but when we choose not to forgive, we pull hell up into our lives.”
  —Josh Howerton (37:13)

• “You cannot carry a cross and a grudge at the same time.”
  —Josh Howerton (46:45)

• “We didn’t create the Bible any more than Newton created gravity… the church recognized the word of God that was already authoritative.”
  —Paul Cunningham (82:14, 82:43)

• “So when people are standing around… and they start throwing out, Constantine created the Bible… now you’ve been equipped to go ‘Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.’”
  —Josh Howerton (83:05)

Flow, Tone, and Accessibility

The conversation is warm, approachable, and occasionally humorous, especially when debunking viral misinformation or discussing pop culture. Real and serious when addressing spiritual wounds, it never loses its pastoral heart, rooting complex history and spiritual advice solidly in the authority of Scripture and the experience of Christian community.

For Further Learning

• Recommended Book: Abigail Shrier, Bad Therapy (especially analysis on therapy and cultural shifts)
• Lakepointe’s Rooted Discipleship Experience: A 10-week journey for deeper spiritual formation and community

Summary Prepared For:
Listeners who want to understand the true origins and reliability of the Bible, learn how to relate to modern therapy from a Christian worldview, and gain tools for authentic forgiveness and healing within a biblical framework. Whether you’re a skeptic, new believer, or seasoned Christian, this episode aims to inform, equip, and inspire.