Should Christians Drink ALCOHOL? (What the Bible REALLY Says) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Summary

Podcast Summary: Should Christians Drink ALCOHOL? (What the Bible REALLY Says)

Live Free with Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church)
Hosts: Carlos Erasmo & Pastor Paul Cunningham
Date: April 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode of Live Free with Josh Howerton (with Josh away in Greece), hosted by Carlos Erasmo and Pastor Paul Cunningham, tackles one of the most common and contentious questions in Christian circles: “Should Christians drink alcohol?”—as well as related hot-button issues: tattoos and marijuana use. With a tone that’s down-to-earth, humorous, and incisive, Carlos and Paul deconstruct legalism, examine what the Bible really says, unpack the wisdom behind Christian liberty, and address how our actions impact ourselves, our spiritual lives, and the faith of those around us.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Topics & Approach

• The hosts preview main subjects: legalism, alcohol, tattoos, and weed (03:02).
• They stress the importance of going beyond a checklist mentality, moving instead toward wisdom and heart motivations for Christian living.

2. Legalism vs. Freedom in Christ (15:09–22:17)

• Defining Legalism: Imposing human-made rules as if they’re God’s law (e.g., straining gnats from wine, rules about cleaning cups in Jesus’ day).
• Two Types of Legalism:
  • Trying to earn salvation through works.
  • Adding requirements God never gave, even after being saved.
  • “Galatians 2:16 says, A person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ… this is not of your own doing… not the result of works.” (B, 17:23)
• Freedom in Christ: Christians are freed from man-made traditions but called to obey what God actually commands. Not all rules are bad: “Rules are actually helpful.” (A, 19:13)
• Balancing Act: Christians shouldn’t add to or subtract from clear biblical commands. The real challenge is telling cultural taboos from biblical mandates.

3. Alcohol: Blessing, Boundary, and Caution (24:50–46:38)

a) Alcohol as a Blessing

• The Bible describes wine as a good gift from God (Psalm 104:14-15, Ecclesiastes 9:7).
• “The Bible... describes alcohol as a good gift from God that people can enjoy.” (B, 25:30)
• Jesus’s first miracle: turning water into (fermented) wine at Cana (26:37–27:06).
• Historical notes: Christian figures and traditions, including John Calvin, Martin Luther, and monastic orders, embraced wine and brewing.

b) Clear Boundaries: Drunkenness Forbid

• Scripture explicitly forbids drunkenness (Eph. 5:18, Gal. 5:19-21).
• “Alcohol can be a blessing. But the Bible gives us a boundary: Don’t get drunk.” (A, 31:52)
• Drunkenness always leads to negative outcomes in the Bible (e.g., Noah, Lot).

c) Dangerous Potential

• Proverbs and other verses warn against the dangers of abusing alcohol: violence, poverty, loss of self-control.
• Modern context: Alcohol abuse and addiction are spiritual strongholds (42:06).
• Rising trend: Young adults, especially Gen Z, are drinking less; cultural attitudes are shifting toward moderation or abstinence (39:14-39:58).

d) Principles for Practice

• Paul’s three guidelines for drinking:
  1. Do it legally (obey age limits and laws).
  2. Do it responsibly (avoid drunkenness and dependency).
  3. Do it respectfully (don’t cause others to stumble—Romans 14:13; 1 Corinthians 9).
• “You may have the freedom to do it, but you may not be free to do it if it causes a brother to stumble.” (B, 36:57)

e) Conscience and Wisdom

• Listen to your conscience (Romans 14).
• Consider if you (or those around you) are prone to addiction or have a history of substance misuse.
• Modern science is clear: “There is no truly safe level of alcohol consumption for overall health.” (A, 42:32)
• Personal conviction and health can lead to abstinence, and that’s okay (43:33–43:56).

4. Tattoos: Biblical, Cultural, and Conscience Questions (52:10–69:55)

• Prompted by a (fake) photo of Josh Howerton getting a tattoo.
• Biblical Context: Leviticus 19:28’s prohibition on tattoos is tied to ancient pagan mourning rituals and is part of ceremonial/civil law, not moral law.
  • “This is not a blanket injunction against any and all tattoos.” (B, 57:25)
• Revelation 19:16 (“written on his robe and thigh”) is not, Carlos argues, a literal tattoo on Jesus, but symbolic apocalyptic imagery.
• Cultural Considerations: In El Salvador and some other cultures, tattoos are heavily associated with gangs/crime; for leaders like Carlos, tattoos could be a stumbling block for others (64:04).
• Personal Examples:
  • Paul uses tattoos (e.g., Ephesians 2 in Greek) as personal reminders and gospel conversation starters (54:08–56:08).
  • Carlos does not have tattoos, not because of biblical prohibition, but to avoid sending the wrong message to his audience and to maximize ministry opportunities (64:04–67:10).
• Critical Question: “Does the life you’re living tell the same story as your tattoo?” (B, 69:31)

5. Marijuana/Weed: Is It Different from Alcohol? (70:10–79:48)

• Listener question: “Is it wrong for me to unwind and smoke weed?” (70:47)
• Key Distinctions:
  • The Bible has no explicit ‘weed’ verse, but clear principles: Be sober-minded (1 Peter 5:8); bear the fruit of self-control (Gal 5).
  • THC (the active ingredient in marijuana) is meant to intoxicate—so recreational use conflicts with biblical calls to sobriety.
  • “You can’t be sober-minded when you’re drunk and therefore you also can’t do that when you’re high.” (B, 71:53)
• Legality: Many U.S. states still prohibit marijuana; obeying the law is a biblical command (Romans 13).
• Medical Use: Differentiated from recreational use; under doctor supervision for symptom relief can be acceptable, but should be closely monitored to avoid dependency.
• Pastoral Wisdom: Generally, recreational marijuana isn’t wise or spiritually healthy for Christians.

6. Framework for Christian Decision-Making

(47:20+ throughout)

• Decision Grid:
  1. Does the Bible allow it? (Explicit and implicit principles)
  2. Does my conscience allow it?
  3. How does it affect other Christians?
  4. How does it affect non-Christians?
  5. How does it affect my spiritual life?
• “Just because you can doesn’t mean you automatically should. Stop, slow down, ask these questions.” (B, 67:10)
• When in doubt: Prioritize what helps you “get as close to Jesus as possible” instead of “how close can I get to the line?” (A, 79:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Legalism:
  “You take man-made teachings and you pass them off as if they’re God’s rules... That’s legalism.” — Paul, 15:14
• On Hypocrisy & Influence:
  “For the kids who grew up in homes where the parents lived out their faith not just in public but in private, 82% were walking with Jesus when they were in adulthood. When they weren't, it went all the way down to 1%.” — Paul, 13:09
• On Alcohol:
  “Jesus literally turns water into wine…and he makes a lot of it.” — Paul, 26:37
  “Alcohol can be a blessing. But the Bible gives us a boundary: Don’t get drunk.” — Carlos, 31:52
• On Conscience & Community:
  “You may have the freedom to do it but you actually may not be free to do it if it’s causing a fellow brother in Christ or a non-Christian to stumble.” — Paul, 36:57
• On Tattoos:
  “This is not a blanket injunction against any and all tattoos. It’s tied to a specific thing at that time.” — Paul, 57:25
  “Just because you can doesn’t mean you automatically should…ask these questions…we have to ask how does this affect others?” — Paul, 67:10
  “If you’re getting a tattoo to demonstrate your faith, the question I would ask you is: does the life you’re living tell the same story as your tattoo?” — Paul, 69:31
• On Marijuana:
  “You can’t be sober-minded when you’re drunk and therefore you also can’t do that when you’re high.” — Paul, 71:53
  “THC’s purpose is intoxication…and that would conflict with the biblical principle of sobriety and self-control.” — Carlos, 75:44
• On Christian Motivation:
  “Instead of asking, ‘how close can I get to sin?’…I want to be asking, ‘what do I have to do to get as close to Jesus as I possibly can?’” — Carlos, 79:48

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [15:09] Legalism and Jesus’ confrontation in Matthew 23
• [24:50] Initial reaction to viral Christian anti-alcohol video
• [25:30] Evidence for alcohol as blessing in Scripture
• [31:52] Clear boundaries against drunkenness
• [36:57] Respecting others’ conscience on alcohol
• [47:20] A framework for making godly decisions
• [52:10] Tattoo debate – biblical and cultural context
• [57:07] Leviticus and the Old Testament’s tattoo prohibition
• [64:04] Why Carlos does not have tattoos (cultural impact)
• [70:10] Weed/marijuana: Christian perspective & unique challenges
• [75:44] Medical marijuana, CBD, and biblical wisdom
• [79:48] Closing exhortation: Seek Christ, not just the edges

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Conclusion

This episode provides a richly biblical, practical, and pastoral lens on contentious issues facing modern Christians—alcohol, tattoos, and marijuana. The hosts urge listeners not to ask, “Where’s the line?” but “Where is Jesus?” By applying a thoughtful, five-part grid and being sensitive to conscience, cultural influence, and the impact on others, believers are invited to walk in true freedom and Christlike love, not legalism or license.

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For more digital content, including sermon notes and Bible study guides, download the Lakepointe Church app or visit https://lakepointe.church/digital/

Transcript

[A]

Is it okay for Christians to smoke weed or consume products with cbd?

[B]

The only person who's ever lived a Christian life perfectly did it so well they named it after him. And that would be Jesus Christ himself.

[A]

Instead of asking, man, how close can I get to sin? Before crossing that line, I want to be asking, what do I have to do to get as close to Jesus as I possibly can? Well, hey, Live Free Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Pointe Church in Dallas, Texas. Texas. But the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church Online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so, whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church Online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Erasmo, and I'm here today with the one and only Chad G. Paul C. Pastor Paul Cunningham.

[B]

What's up, Carlos? What's going on, bro? How you doing, bro?

[A]

Good. How are you?

[B]

Come on, man. I'm doing good. Where's Pastor Josh?

[A]

Hey, Pastor Josh right now is actually in Greece. He is on a mission to convert the Greek Orthodox Church. He is probably eating a chicken Slovakia platter right now with dzatziki sauce and a Greek salad. And he probably got. He read Acts 17 and got inspired

[B]

to go to Athens, another place I have not been.

[A]

You have not or you haven't been there?

[B]

I haven't been there either.

[A]

I'm sure we'll hear about this when he comes back.

[B]

I'm sure I will.

[A]

He's probably evangelizing to the Greek people with those with houses and the blue roofs in Santorini. Yeah. And beautiful ocean views is probably what he's doing right now. That's good, man. Hey, today we're gonna have good episode. By the way, we're coming to you from Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. It's going to be great, bro. I'm excited for this one.

[B]

Oh, it's going to be good.

[A]

We are going to be talking about legalism, alcohol, tattoos, and weed. Basically, all the things your mom told you to stay away from. That's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah, bro, you got a. You got a.

[B]

You got a drink with me in honor of that. I was just like, man, you know, if we're talking about it, let's just be ready to. To, you know, open one up.

[A]

Hey, thanks for getting me one.

[B]

Well, yeah, I love that there's only one left.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There's only one left. Now, just for clarity, so people don't freak out, this is a root beer. This is a dad's root beer from Father's Day last year. I may take a drink, but if I die in the middle of this, it's because it's, like, very old.

[A]

Is this, like, leftover from, like, two years ago when we did this dinner?

[B]

That's what I'm saying. I think it's, like, a few years old, so I hope I don't have to, like, run out because I get sick. But I did think when we were prepping for this, we had actually thought about putting, like, a real live can of beer on the table and thought, maybe that's too edgy. And then I thought, before this, Mike, we've put the Book of Mormon on this table. I think we put a Quran on this table. But, man, lobo, if we put one beer on here, like, the building might collapse on our heads.

[A]

I don't think the Baptists will appreciate that. The beer here, baptism beer. I hear they don't go well together. We're going to talk about that right now.

[B]

No, they do not. Yeah, be fun, man.

[A]

But. So we're going to be answering some questions, such as, should Christians drink alcohol? What the Bible really says, as you partake of your root beer, that's the

[B]

last sip of that root beer.

[A]

Is it a sin to have a tattoo? Pastor Paul Cunningham, we're going to go there.

[B]

Should.

[A]

Should you get one, or should you get another one? Because for. Honestly, probably a lot of our folks, they're like, yeah, should I get another one? It's the question.

[B]

Once you get one, it becomes kind of addicting. I'm not saying I know from experience,

[A]

but, you know, Paul Cunningham might show some of his tattoos. We're going to have a little show and tell here, although I'm not sure I want to see that, but we'll see. We're going to ask, is it okay for Christians to smoke Weed or consume products with cbd. We're going to be reacting to a Christian influencer, George Yankel, ask that question. It's going to be fun, man. Hey, by the way, also, if you are part of the Live Free nation and you ever come visit us in person, we would love to meet you. Come find us at any of our physical locations and our first time guest tent, we get a free gift for you. Here's a photo. Oh, Trinity, I did not give you this photo. Never mind. We're gonna save this for next time. It's okay.

[B]

That's fun. This past weekend when I was just hanging out in the lobby. Let's see, I met people from Idaho, Arizona, Michigan, Florida. Guy actually from Washington state was here for the first time and he was moving here. He felt like God had just let him in his heart to leave Washington state, leave Spokane and join us here. And it was his first Sunday actually visiting. Got himself a hat. It was awesome, man.

[A]

Literally like every single week, there is not one week that I don't meet somebody that's like from literally a state or different country.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

It's crazy. Hey, also comment below if you're joining us on YouTube or Spotify. Comment the word hat. Actually, no, let's change it up. Comment the word chat. G. Paul C. And we want to give you some free merch. We got some hats here for the men and for the ladies as well. And finally, to find our daily Bible reading plan, plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the live free podcast, plus a discipleship guide that you can use to take to your life group. Download the Lake Point Church app, text the word app to 20411 or go to Apple or go Google Play Store. Okay.

[B]

Paul. Yep.

[A]

So last week, I think it was last week you told me and my wife Brooke to go watch the movie project Hail Mary.

[B]

Where is this going? Yes. Yes, I did.

[A]

So I watched it. Yeah, you watched it, man, we went to the movies. It's been a while and so we. We checked it out.

[B]

Okay. What were your thoughts?

[A]

Fine.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I knew you're gonna.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So, bro, so honestly, like, this is why I like to watch trailers before watching movies. Because I. It was not what I expected.

[B]

What did you expect?

[A]

I mean, not. Not that.

[B]

So did you think the alien was a demon? No, that was a joke from a previous episode. If you're new to the podcast, by the way, that's. Go check out a previous episode.

[A]

But I will say so. So. Because I know we brought this up when we were Talking about this, I'm gonna say, first of all, I'm more of an interstellar kind of guy than Project Hail Mary. Would you agree?

[B]

Yeah, I think that fits you really well.

[A]

Okay. You disagree with that?

[B]

I'm tossed up. What I like.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think? Interstellar. Much better than Project Hail Mary.

[B]

I don't say they're different. I mean, both, in a sense, are space. MOV is one's better than the other. One's very optimistic. That's Project Hail Mary. Really. A lot more humor and fun. Interstellar's got a lot of the feels.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, yeah, but keep going, keep.

[A]

So here's what I would if somebody were to ask, hey, is Project Hail Mary with Ryan Gosling a Christian movie?

[B]

Oh, here we go.

[A]

The answer is, no, it's not. But hear me out. At its core, every good story that feels deeply true in some ways always points to the true story of the gospel and the biblical narrative. And so pay attention next time you watch any movie. This is true. But. But first of all, by the way, semi spoiler alerts coming in just a couple seconds. If you haven't seen Project Hail Mary, mute the next 30 seconds of this video. I'm going to share some things. Probably not much, but just in case. You've been warned. Okay, here we go. So the movie is called Project Hail Mary. Now, Hail Mary is a Catholic prayer. We don't do that prayer. But behind that, there is a sense in which the movie is communicating man. People are kind of feeling man. My situation feels impossible and I'm desperately crying out for supernatural help. That's what that means. Also in the movie, there's a hero, one man who must potentially sacrifice himself to serve all of humanity. What's his name? Oh, his name is Grace. He wakes up from a coma surrounded by dead people. Kind of like raising from the dead, being raised from the dead. His best friend is made out of a rock and he's called Rocky. You know, kind of like when Jesus best friend Peter, whose name means rock. The narrative of the story eventually moved towards sacrifice, salvation, and a new humanity and a new creation. And at some point in the movie, I don't know if you got this, somebody asks the main character, so you believe in God? And he says, it's better than the alternative. Again, I don't think the creators of the movie meant for this to be specifically Christian. But without even realizing it, I think it shows that. It shows something that is actually true in our culture right now. I think we all have a deep sense that something is deeply wrong with our world and our culture is starving for hope, salvation, faith, and a hero, that it's outside of our natural realm. And so, to quote C.S. lewis, if I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

[B]

That's so good, man. Love that you brought in See Us. No, listen, I love it. I love it. I love it all. Love that you brought in See Us.

[A]

Yeah. You don't buy it at all. I know you, bro.

[B]

Stop it. No. Oh, my goodness. I get such a bad rap for this. I actually buy exactly what you're laying down, which is not a Christian movie, but it has themes. And so to your point, it's like all the things that resonate us in all the stories that we love, the things that resonate with us ultimately point to the capital S story, the story that God is writing. And so many those themes are found and ultimately find their true meaning in that story. But I love that you brought C.S. lewis into this because I'm pretty sure he was a fan of alcohol. So he fits today. So I'm just trying to segue and get potentially to there. No, you know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I have a thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

So he liked to drink.

[B]

I mean, he was. Yeah, he's British, man. I think that's just. That was just the norm in his day for.

[A]

Don't be racist.

[B]

Whoa. Well, I guess I'm not. I'm not British. We're gonna save that racist guy Irish. Wow. Okay. It's fine. It's fine. That's a joke, man. Oh, man, I love that movie. And I do think what you said, I think it's actually really resonating with people right now because, man, we're in a tough world. We're in a tough season of the world. And I think people are clinging to or starving for is probably a better way to say any form of hope they can find. And so I think there's a reason that's resonating. And what's cool, man, is obviously Christians, man. We've got the hope that can only be found in Jesus. And so that's it, man.

[A]

Hey, Chris Berkley question this weekend.

[B]

How about a sermon, man? The patron saint of East Dallas, man, does such a good job. Everything he does, man.

[A]

Chris Berkley. I gotta honor Chris Berkley. He has been, I would say, one of the most influential people in my. In the last seven years, I've had the blessing of working closely with him. He's been a blessing to me and my family. He's not only a godly man, he is a good friend, but he's an even better husband and father. And so he's got my admiration for that. And we're going to talk about what that means as well, but go ahead. What do you think of the message?

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

What did it make it to the sermon?

[B]

Yeah. So if you haven't been able to listen to it yet, Matthew 23, really Jesus confronting hypocrisy and the religious leaders of his day. So talking to Pharisees and religious leaders and really confronting them on their hypocrisy. Although I'll get in a minute, there was also something that wasn't the main focus, but it's also very present in Matthew 23 that Jesus consistently condemns. But man, just fantastic sermon. One thing that hit me, and I'm not sure if it made it into every iteration of his sermon, but there is some stats that Chris and I were talking about actually even before he gave the sermon, that shows the power of hypocrisy in a bad way in the sense of man. If we are living with hypocrisy in our lives, it doesn't just affect us, it affects those around us, especially if we're claiming to bear the name of Jesus. And he gave this stat around parents and the insane influence, influence that they have on their kids. And so there is a study done. It's been actually continually ongoing that started years back, decades back. The University of Notre Dame has been basically leading a guy named Christian Smith who I think in the past year left Notre Dame, but he used to be there. One of the leading sociologists of our day, really trying to figure out what is it that keeps kids and students like teenagers in faith as they go into adulthood. So studying this for a long time, longitudinal study, so it's been going on for decades. And what they found is the single greatest determining factor is the. Not just the faith, but the demonstrated faith of the parents. And not that the parents are perfect. That's what we gotta be careful when we talk about hypocrisy. We're not talking about perfection. Every single one of us fails to live up to our standards. The only person who's ever lived a Christian life perfectly did it so well they named it after him, and that would be Jesus Christ himself. But we're talking about just not being fake, not trying to have one Persona in public and another in private. So they were doing this study and actually I think we've Got a slide that kind of shows this study. I remember reading this 10 years ago or so from Huffington Post. So if you're not familiar with HuffPost, not exactly a conservative in terms of values and beliefs. So it really even floored me that they post this. But basically, here's what they found. Just 1% of the teens ages 15 to 17 that were raised by parents who attached little importance to religion were still highly religious in their mid to late 20s. Let's say that again, 1% of the people that they were following that had they started when they were kids and in their teens and now in their 20s, were actually following Jesus. If they lived in a home where even if the parents said they were Christian, even if occasionally they went to church, if they didn't actually demonstrate it at home, that it was a serious thing to them, only 1% of those kids were now still following Jesus as they were young adults. But then they looked at the ones whose parents did live it out. Again, not perfectly, but they didn't just engage and go to the church. They were there more often. And even more importantly, they were living their faith out at home and talking about their faith. Whereas, opposed to 1% in those teens, 82% of those children were still walking with Jesus and active in their local church. Let's just say that out loud again. Wow. Like, for the kids who grew up at homes where the parents lived out their faith, not just in public, but in private, 82% of those kids were walking with Jesus when they were in adulthood. In places where they weren't, it went all the way down to 1%. I remember reading that 10 years ago and a few things. For me, number one, it was just a ministry that we won't get into now. I was like, wow, I got to really rethink how I'm doing ministry. But number two, just for me as a parent, it really challenged me, especially just frankly being on staff at a church. It's easy for me to talk about faith in public. That's literally what I'm paid to do. But it just challenged me to say, hey, would my kids see the same thing when we're at home or around the ball field when no one else can see but us? And it just challenged me to make sure that the same faith I have in public is the same faith that I have in private. And so that just re challenged me. As Chris and I were talking about before and as he was talking about this weekend, just saying, man, parents, you have an outsized influence in your life that applies to Me too. And it just challenged me to. Just to continue to up the game and make sure I'm demonstrating my faith in private as well as in public.

[A]

Well, that's good. I think, honestly, this shatters this. This individualistic idea that your faith is your own thing. And, like, you know, you do you. Yep. Honestly, this is basically an immature idea that it's all about you and whether. What's your preference? No, it's about your legacy. It's about your family. And in many ways, it's true what's been said. Your family is your resume. You know, I'm thinking for my family, man, I. I want to get to a point where, like, man, I think it's great when, you know, somebody can come and recognize what you do, and that's awesome. But I want to be able to go home, and my wife is excited to see me, and my children are excited to see me. And so I think that makes a lot of sense.

[B]

And I would just say, if you're listening to this and you're not yet a dad or a mom, let's say you're even single, the time to be preparing for that is now. What I have found is that marriage and parenthood don't make a new you. They amplify the person that you already are. And so whatever habits and rhythms you had in life before you enter into that, you carry into it. If anything gets harder to perpetuate those, not to start them. So if you're a person who's actively living out your faith in your friendships and in your home, if you're in the word, if you're in prayer, you're going to continue to do that. Meanwhile, if you haven't been, it's actually almost harder to start because it's just busier once you get a family. And so I'd say if you're single, don't tune out what we were just saying. If anything, I say, hey, the time to start getting into that and living your faith out in private is now, because it'll be tested later. That hit me. Anything else hit you from it or just anything around hypocrisy in general?

[A]

I think that's great. So tell me more. I want to hear more about legalism.

[B]

So, yeah, so a big theme of Matthew 23, again, is hypocrisy. But what you also see in Matthew 23 is something that Jesus has already condemned their Pharisees and religious leaders for earlier in the book of Matthew. And basically it's man made rules. He said, basically, you take man made teachings and you pass them off though, as if they're God's rules himself. So that's legalism. So some examples of this. In Matthew 23 you have for example idea of straining a gnat. He talks about how you strain a gnat but you swallow a camel. What Jesus is referencing is the rabbinic practice of straining gnats from their wine. So a little bit of context. God had forbidden the Israelites to eat any kind of insects in the Old Testament. So he'd given them this rule. But what Pharisees and religious leaders did is say, okay, but man, we've got to be hypervigilant because hey, what if a gnat like lands in my wine and I drink it and then I'm disobeying God? So they would literally strain out a gnat from their wine to make they weren't disobeying the original commandment. But then here's what they would do is that if you didn't do that, guess how they saw you, oh, you are less holy than me. So they took something that was more of a man made invention and they acted like this. If this were a God given rule. And those are two different things. That's one example. Another thing, at one point Jesus talks about how, hey, you clean the outside of the cup, but inside you're full of all kind of awful stuff. Now Jesus was using this as an analogy, but he's also leaning into a bit of contention. In that day you had two different camps. Some people said that you had to clean only the outside, I mean only the inside of the cup. Other people say you had to clean the inside and the outside of the cup. Now in the Old Testament again, God had given rules for cleaning ceremonial dishes, but guess who he had given them to? The priests.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so what a Pharisee wanted to do is say, well, hey, we want to be able to practice this and basically make our home into an altar, our dinner table into an altar, and if the priest did it, we want to do it too. And so again, they were taking something that originally was meant for a different context, but they said, hey, we're going to do this. And guess what? Again, if you didn't do it, you were less holy than them. So they're taking things that are man made inventions, but they're passing them off as God given rules that everyone should follow. And that's legalism. There's really legalism means two things. One thing it could mean is where you think you have to do things in order to Be saved. I have to be a good enough person or I have to not do enough bad things. And if I don't do enough bad things and I do enough good things, eventually God will love me and he'll want us to save me. That's one form of legalism, by the way. That is not the gospel and that is not the truth. Galatians 2:16 says, A person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2 says, for by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing. Is the gift of God not the result of what? Of works. So that no one may boast. So listen, none of us can be good enough to get God to love us. Probably because guess what? God already does love us. John 3:16 does not say God sent his son and because he died, then he started loving us. No, it says because God loved us, he sent his son and gave him for us. Carlos, were you about to say something, bud?

[A]

No, no, no, go ahead.

[B]

No, so I just say it's just a reminder. Like, man, God already loves us and he died for us. That's what saves us. Nothing we do for him. But a second form of second thing that legalism is, is basically thinking that you or others have to do or don't do something after God saved you, but that he never actually commanded us to do or don't do. You actually see this in Colossians 2. Paul talks about if with Christ, who died to the elemental spirits of this world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations? Listen to this. Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch. So Paul is basically given like things that these people are saying according to human precepts and teachings. See, there you get it again. It's not God given rules, it's human made rules. And he says these indeed have an appearance of wisdom. In other words, if you even think about some things the Pharisees are doing, like, oh yeah, it makes sense. Like if you're not allowed to eat nats, if you strain it out, that seems like actually a pretty good thing.

[A]

Like rules are not bad.

[B]

No, they're not bad. Like oh yeah.

[A]

Because then people think on the other side, it's like, oh, every. If you just bring up any rule, oh, you're a legalistic.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like religious Pharisaical, like chill. Like that's. Rules are actually like helpful.

[B]

Exactly. Oh yeah, we're going to. I was literally going to jump into that next. Exactly like so like what Paul is saying is saying like, hey, these appear to be really wise. But actually what these are, again, these are man made rules, not God given rules. But these people are thinking, I have to do these things now that I'm saved. So one form of legalism is I have to do things to be saved. Another form of legalism is I have to do things now that I'm saved. But there are rules that God never actually gave us to do or not to do. Make sense so far?

[A]

Makes sense, absolutely.

[B]

Now to your point, on the other side of this, a lot of people fall into basically a ditch on the other side of the road. And that is making the mistake of thinking that we don't have to obey God's commands. Like literally Jesus says in the book of John, if you love me, you will keep my commandments. So when we're obeying God, it's not that we're getting God to love us, we're obeying God because God already loves us. We're responding to what he's done and we're just wanting to show our love for God. The way I like to think of it is that like, man, if I'm really serious about loving my wife and my family and about providing good guardrails for our family and for my marriage and protecting my purity, people are going to think, man, Paul's a really great husband and father. But then if I do that same thing for my God, I can be known, as you said, a legalist. So if I do it for my family, I'm a great family man. But if I do it for my God, I'm a legalist. It's a little bit of a double standard there. So what we're not saying is that, oh yeah, we're free to do whatever we want, man, now that you're a Christian, live however you want, do whatever you want. He came to die so that you can be free of all rules and regulations. We're not saying that, we're just simply saying that, hey, he did come to free us from man made rules that don't apply to us. But here's the key thing, here's the tricky thing. And this leads into some of our topics for the day. How do you know which is which? How do you know as a Christian, hey, what are the things that God has commanded me to do and that I have to do or not do? And hey, what are some other things that maybe are just like cultural made rules, church made rules that actually God never gave us to do? And so I Don't have to do if I don't feel called to do.

[A]

So there's a little more freedom on some of these areas as well versus the things that the Bible makes it clear, hey, this is who you are as a Christian. This is what we do. This is what we don't do.

[B]

Exactly. Because even like in Colossians, for example, like just a few verses after the ones I just mentioned about how Paul said, hey, this appears to be wise and people say, don't touch, don't taste, don't do these things. Here's what Paul says, literally just a few verses later, put to death. Therefore, what is earthly in you? Sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil, desire, covetousness. On account of these, the wrath of God is coming. You too once walked in these ways, but now you must put them all the way. Anger, wrath, malice, slander and obscene talk from your mouth. So Paul isn't saying, oh ye, yeah, go live however you want. He's simply saying don't follow man made rules. Instead do what God is calling you do and honor him with your life. So again though, now what we want to do the rest of our time together is okay, like let's take some hot button issues that have been there for a while and even today and say, okay, like are these things that are man made rules or are these things that are God given commands?

[A]

Yeah. And honestly man, like, so we're going to go alcohol, tattoos and weed, like that combination. We couldn't get any more controversial than that.

[B]

No.

[A]

Now I will say this, like a lot of these topics that I feel like they used to be more controversial before. Now it seems like for whatever reason, you know, it's kind of changing a little bit. I will say I'm sure somebody might disagree or not. Like the way the fact that you're drinking root beer and kind of looks like something else.

[B]

I feel like you're judging me for still drinking root beer because you're like uber healthy.

[A]

Not because it's alcohol, but for another reason.

[B]

What's the other reason?

[A]

Just, I don't, I, I'm not, I don't like sugar.

[B]

Yeah, you're like a water only guy, basically.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we're.

[B]

See, we're purifying. Maybe I am. You have to trip. Why? We're breaking Romans. We'll get to in a ride. That's right, man, but. That's right. Yeah. Well, I think some of this is cultural. At one point in my life, I was in Mississippi for about a decade and they're still very conservative. A place where, man, if. You know, typically most Christians probably didn't drink in public. They just had their beer at home kind of a thing. But then I moved up to Washington state, and literally the church I went to, they would have get togethers at breweries. And it was just a very normal thing in that culture if you go over to Italy, very normal thing for people to drink wine with the dinner. So some of it is cultural, some of it's generational.

[A]

Okay. So we're gonna bring clarity to that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Once and for all. After this episode. It's gonna be 100 clear.

[B]

100 clear.

[A]

And we're gonna start with a video of somebody in the Internet and they have an opinion, and so we're gonna hear it. Trini, what you got?

[C]

Isn't it so obvious that alcohol is from the devil? Like, just look at their names. I'd like to order a gin and tonic blood, please. Gin, like what? Ugh, this is so creepy. Also, what type of alcohol is vodka? It's a spirit that is so scary. When you drink alcohol, you literally become a different person. It's like you're possessed. Here's another. When you're drunk, they say you're under the influence, right? Under the influence of what? Of Satan. Also, when you're drunk, they say, oh, I'm so wasted. Yes, I agree.

[B]

Any.

[C]

Anything to do with alcohol is an absolute waste. Can Satan make himself any more clear? I'm never drinking alcohol again. What do you guys think?

[B]

I really wish I had an Australian accent, man.

[A]

Everything I said much cooler.

[B]

It would sound so compelling. Like, man, what he said has to be right. It has to be right.

[A]

Okay, so, Paul, let's answer that question. What does the Bible actually say about alcohol?

[B]

Yeah. So I will say as I jump in that I would actually this. This is a textbook example of legalism, because remember, Colossians said it appears to have a form of wisdom. And so much of what she was saying appears to sound good.

[A]

Yeah. And I would say we'll talk about this, but there are some elements of truth in wisdom.

[B]

There's some elements of truth in there for sure. There's so many good things. And by the way, we're going to give some guardrails what the Bible teaches and doesn't teach for sure. But I think this is actually a good textbook example where it sounds really good, but actually, when you go to scripture, it kind of falls apart a little bit in how black and white she's making it. Okay, so the Bible clearly teaches a few Things in regards to alcohol, number one, and this might rub some people wrong, it clearly describes alcohol as a good gift from God that people can enjoy.

[A]

Okay, say that one more time. A good gift from God that people can enjoy.

[B]

The Bible, and I'll say it in, it clearly describes alcohol as a good gift from God that people can enjoy. So a few examples of this. Psalm 104, 14, 15. You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate. That. Okay, so when it says that this is the purpose of the reason God causes grass to grow and for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, and oil to make his face shine, and bread to strengthen his man's heart. Kind of shoots a hole in the globe, gluten free thing right there on that last one. No offense, if you are a gluten free person because of allergies and whatnot.

[A]

I'm sure some other people are.

[B]

Yeah. But literally it says right there, the reason, like God, one of the reasons God causes grass to grow and everything to make is so that he could let people make wine to glide in the heart.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Ecclesiastes is very similar. Ecclesiastes 9, 7. Go and eat your bread with joy, joy and drink your wine with a merry heart. For God has already approved of what you do. I mean, then we go to the New Testament. Literally, like Jesus turns water into wine.

[A]

First miracle.

[B]

First miracle? Yeah, like first miracle in the book of John. He multiplies and he makes a lot of it. He makes these massive, massive vessels. Now, I know in a bit you may push back or you may give. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

So, Paul, hold on. But Jesus. So some people will actually say this. Yeah, seriously, Jesus didn't actually drink fermented wine. His wine was not fermented. It was not alcoholic. True or false?

[B]

False. Wine by definition literally has to be like fermented.

[A]

Are you pulling a Dwight from the office?

[B]

I was pulling a little bit of a. I was watching the office last night. Oh, nice. It was in my mind and in my blood right there. Yeah. Okay, so a few facts around this and things that are misconceptions. Yeah. Yes. The wine in their day was diluted. In fact, it was kind of seen as barbaric if you didn't dilute your wine or alcohol in any kind of way. But we also know for a fact historically and from the Bible that it was still. It still had alcohol in it. It still Was fermented. A few things. I mean, number one, literally, throughout the New Testament, there are instructions not to get drunk on wine. And if this is the same word that is used of what Jesus makes, why would they have to give that prohibition to be very diluted? Or let's just even talk practically, because even example in the Book of Corinthians, Paul literally says, hey, you guys are getting together, you're having church, and you're doing communion, and some of you are drinking so much of the wine you're getting drunk. Okay, so again, it has to be alcoholic. But let's. Even if it was diluted, and it was. If it was insanely diluted, it's like 1%. Do you know how much wine they would have had to have been drinking to get drunk? Like, they would have had to go to the bathroom long before they would have ever gotten drunk. That's how much wine they're drinking kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah, but Jesus brought a. Of lot. Jesus brought a lot to the party.

[B]

He did. He brought a lot.

[A]

Okay? And somebody would say, but why would Jesus bring something that might cause other people to stumble and get drunk if that's a sin?

[B]

I go back to this case, to Psalm 104. What does it talk about? It says how he gives grass to grow for livestock and all these things to do what? To make food. Well, wait a second. People can take food, which is a good gift from God, but use it for what? Gluttony.

[A]

Yeah, we receive the food from God. I have the.

[B]

And then we abuse the volition to

[A]

just eat as much as I can.

[B]

Exactly. We abuse God's good gift. Gift, and it becomes gluttony or even think another place with food. In the Old Testament, when God gives manna, he gives manna to the Israelites. But then he also gives instructions to say, hey, you've got to collect it all day. You can't collect and everything. But guess what the people do? They disobey his instructions. So God, same thing. He gives parameters around a good gift, but then they use it in a bad way, and then it becomes bad. Same thing with wine. Now is a little. I will say this. It is still a little different. It's much harder for me to become a glutton and live a gluttonous lifestyle. Well, I say that for some people it's not. But I'll say, yeah, I get drunk way quicker. Then I get full. You know, I can literally, you know, take a few. Few glasses of a strong drink and be drunk. It would take A lot of food to fill me up, unless I go to a Mexican restaurant.

[A]

So. So you're saying, obviously alcohol can be a blessing from God. Honestly, it's interesting because if you check out, all throughout church history, like Christians, generally speaking, they've known that wine and other alcoholic beverages have been received as a blessing. Like, this is just kind of like church history. In medieval Europe, monasteries were known as brewing and winemaking places. At the time, it was often safer than water to beer, and so monks were known to make a lot of beer. John Calvin's Geneva salary as a pastor included 250 gallons of wine for hospitality. I did not know this.

[B]

No. Oh, my God, man.

[A]

He was well compensated. You could say 250 gallons. Martin Luther's wife, Katrina or Katarina van Bora, ran a large household, brewed beer. And Martin Luther praised her. What she did. Beer was important to the Puritans. It wasn't until 157 years ago that Thomas Welsh, who was a man, Methodist layman and dentist, made unfermented wine, AKA what we know today as grape juice. And he did it specifically for churches wanting alcohol. Free communion. And this is kind of where the whole modern communion grape juice tradition begins. And so that happened 157 years ago. Again, more than likely, we know historically, Jesus didn't drink Welsh.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Otherwise they would not have to give prohibitions about getting drunk on that wine.

[A]

So it's a blessing. You mind if I just keep.

[B]

Yeah, no, keep going. Yeah. What else would you say in terms of what the Bible says in the.

[A]

So I agree. So obviously that's clear. Old Testament, New Testament, man. It's a blessing. Having said that, I do think we need to clarify, man. The Bible also gives us a boundary. So we get a blessing and a boundary. And the boundary, it clearly commands people not to get drunk. So that's also clear. Ephesians 5:18. Do not get drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. Galatians 5:19. Now, the works of the flesh are evident. There's a whole list. Sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, verse 20. Idolatry, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you. And again, this is very serious. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Verse 24. This is important. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with his passions and desires. So alcohol can be a blessing. But the Bible gives us a boundary. Don't get drunk. Here's why because number three, we would say, man, the Bible also says alcohol can be dangerous.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Proverbs 23, 29. This is what it says. Who has anguish, who has sorrow, who is always fighting, who is always complaining. That's a lot of social media these days. Who has unnecessary bruises, who has bloodshot eyes? It is the one who spends long hours in the taverns trying out new drinks. Don't gaze at wine, seeing how red it is, how it sparkles in a cup, how smoothly it goes down. For in the end, it bites like a poisonous snake and it stinks like a viper. Every time time somebody gets drunk in the Bible, it goes poorly. You see, Noah, Lot Nabal and others get drunk in the Old Testament. The result tends to be shame, sexual sin, death, and more. Other verses also connect alcohol with violence, poverty, impaired leadership, and divine judgment. And so we would say if somebody were asking, generally speaking, we're about to go into a little bit more details here. Generally speaking, alcohol can be received as a blessing. Blessing. When received, there should be a boundary. Don't get drunk, but when you consume it, the Bible says, beware.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of his dangers.

[B]

That's exactly right. And I think, you know, like, with that, a few. Well, actually, let me just kind of cut to this. Like, when people ask me this question, get. I've get asked this question before. I'm sure I'll get it after this and everything. My favorite is when, like teenagers, when I was a student pastor would ask me this. Yeah, you got. You were a student pastor. They ever asked you this?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And I'm like, I'm like, why are you asking me this? You're 15, bro. Everything. You and I both know why they were asking it at that point. They want to be full affirmed in what they were already doing on the weekends, man. But no, when people ask me, I tell them, usually I'm like, yeah, you are free as a Christian to drink alcohol. But hey, I give three guidelines in terms of how to do that well and how to do that right in a way that honors God and other people. Number one, do it legally. Do it legally here in America. That's 21. Also, man, we have laws against being drunk and driving. Like, we have those things. A certain blood, a blood alcohol limit. And don't do that. Do it legally. Number two, do it responsibly. So don't get drunk, but also don't become dependent on it. So don't be drunk, but also don't become dependent. Because I've known people who, they would not get drunk, you know, not even borderline tipsy. But what would end up happening is they'd have long days and they found that the only way that they could unwind, the only way they could relax at the end of a long day was to have a glass of wine or a glass or two of wine more getting drunk. But that was just their way of coping. And then what was happening is they were becoming dependent on that to bring them down after and they weren't taking that long day to God himself. And so it's an example of how, man, even if you don't get drunk, you can become dependent. So number one, do it legally, number two, do it responsibly. And number three, do it respectfully. This is a massive one that people miss. I missed it, frankly, when I was younger. So, you know, I grew up like, great home, man. Great. You know, in our home it wasn't like just frowned upon to drink, but my parents didn't drink. But man, when I was 21.

[A]

Were you a Baptist?

[B]

Yeah, my dad was a Baptist pastor, Southern Baptist pastor. And he was not strong anti alcohol. He just. He felt the personal conviction, which we'll get to in a bit. He just felt the personal conviction not to. But just grew up in a culture wasn't normal or. I'm 21 and I decided I'm going to drink, not get drunk, but I'm going to drink. But I had this kind of attitude

[A]

of like in college. Yeah, yeah. Did you go to Christian's college?

[B]

I did. But they didn't have a rule against you. You just couldn't drink.

[A]

Rebellious Paul Cunningham.

[B]

I know this isn't like, I gotta be careful. I'll start naming names of colleges and if they're listening, I don't wanna. We love you too. Amen.

[A]

Call them out.

[B]

I'm not naming names or locations. Somewhere around the Greenville, South Carolina area. Ok. Anyways, I'm joking. There's multiple colleges around there. Y' all can figure that out. Anyways. Okay, so they know who they are. They know who they are. Okay. So I had this attitude though, because I wasn't. Because it was a Christian college and there were some from more conservative backgrounds. So even when they turned 21, they didn't do it. I was almost like anti legalist. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do it. And if you have a problem with that, why don't you just keep your pharisaical attitude and opinions to yourself? Wow. I was just all about that. But then the problem was I read the book.

[A]

This is a safe space, by the way. We're here confessing sins and healing matters.

[B]

Welcome home. Welcome home. Hey, hypocrisy. Got some stuff we're working on. The problem though is I read the Bible.

[A]

Yeah, that will do it.

[B]

I eventually read, for example, the book of Romans and in Romans 14:15. It's actually what's happening there for a little context before I read is that Jews and Gentile Christians are fighting with each other. One group, Jewish people, they don't eat a certain kind of meat. We don't really know all the contours and the details, but hey, there's some kind of meat they're not eating. Some people think it was maybe a sacrifice to an idol or just something else. But then the Gentiles, Gentile Christians felt the freedom to do that and they were both judging each other. They were better than each other. The Jews were saying, well, we're more strict in following God. The Gentiles like, well, we're more free in Christ than you are. They're looking down on each other and it was causing a rift. And basically Paul comes in and he says, hey, that meat is not sinful. But if, hey Jewish person, if you feel like you're convicted not to, then don't. But hey, Gentile Christian, guess what? If you doing it in front of them, causing them to stumble, you're actually in the wrong. So I was reading like that's a little bit of context. And this is literally what Paul says.

[A]

Basically. It's not a all about you.

[B]

It's not all about you.

[A]

If you're a Christian, that's a principle.

[B]

You may have the freedom to do it. This is the key thing. This is going to sound like a little bit contradiction, but you may have the freedom to do it, but you actually may not be free to do it if it's causing a fellow brother in Christ or a non Christian to stumble. So like here, I'll just read it for you. Romans 14 says, Decide never. This is verse 13. To put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and I am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in of itself. Paul here isn't talking about things like heroin, so please don't take that out of context. He's talking about food.

[A]

He said nothing, Paul.

[B]

He's talking about food in the context. While we read the Bible in context. But it is unclean for anyone who thinks it's unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer working. Walking in love. This is where it gets even more clear. Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean. But it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. Listen to this. It is not good to eat meat or drink wine or. Or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. So I read that and I think, well, crap, maybe I've had the wrong attitude. And then I go to 1 Corinthians, and I'm not gonna read the whole passage. First Corinthians 9, where Paul talks about how he's surrendering his rights. He had rights he could take advantage of, but he said he put them down and why. This is the passage where he goes and he says, to the Jew, I became a Jew to win Jews to the Greek, I became a Greek to a Greek, and so on. He said, I did everything to be able to win and that God might use me to save some. He surrendered his rights to see. So all that. Long story short, I don't want to do anything that puts a stumbling block in front of my fellow Christians or non Christians so that they hinder. I hinder the gospel from coming to them, or I lose respect in their eyes.

[A]

Yeah. You'll find a theme as we. Because we're about to talk about tattoos and also weed, you'll find a theme as well. Honestly, like, again, one, it's not all about you. Yeah, right. So again, it's this idea. If you're a Christian, it is not just about you. It's about your legacy. It's about your community. It's about your relationship with other people. You're part of a body the Bible calls the church. And so when we have these conversations, we don't just ask, well, I like it, or this is my background. And like you said, you know, I'm 21 or whatever, and I can. I'm free to do it. So I'm gonna do it. I think that's something to consider. Another thing.

[B]

Go ahead. Oh, no, you go. I was actually gonna ask you questions, but you might. You might get where I was. I just had some questions that came to mind. You go, bro.

[A]

Another thing that I would say if you. Attention in culture. This is really interesting as I was prepping for our conversation today. So culturally speaking, alcohol is actually losing popularity right now. Time released an article in 2025 called why Gen Z is Drinking Less, and it says adults under 35 who drink dropped from 72% to 62%. Youth drinking has been dropping since the year 2000. And it seems to suggest. I mean, there's some explanations. Some might think that some are actually smoking weed or other things. Things instead of drinking alcohol. There's another article. Gallup released this article. Overall, this is what it says. Overall, you, as adult drinking hit 54%. That's the lowest in 90 years.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Young adults 18 to 34 dropped to 50%. And the majority of people in our country right now believe. This is interesting. The majority of people in our country now believe even moderate drinking is actually unhealthy and bad for you. So there's a trend right now that's just kind of, you know. So as we have this conversation. Conversation. In addition to what we said that the Bible teaches on alcohol, I think there's a couple things that I would say you want to consider as a Christian.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One I would say. And also, what does your conscience say that's good. Romans 14. You addressed it, Paul. Basically, something can be permissible or allowed, but if your conscience says no, you shouldn't do it, you should not go against, you know, And I think that could be the case for you. Another one, I would say, man, is this something that's leading you towards. Towards addiction? Everybody, not everybody, is prone towards addiction the same way, I think addiction. And also I would say this addiction is much more spiritual than you think. And so to the credit of the video we just saw, here's what I would say to Ephesians 5, 18. Again, it says, do not get drunk with wine, but do the opposite. There's a little bit of a contrast there. Don't get drunk with wine, but be filled with the spirit. So you can be under the influence of the Holy Spirit, or you can be under the influence of a spirit. Spirit, which is the word, by the way, we use for distilled alcohol. Vodka, whiskey. The New Testament word for addiction is actually. Is what the Bible calls a stronghold. And it refers to when something or someone that is stronger than you is using something that you're addicted to to enslave you. And so when somebody is addicted to, like alcohol, for example, they'll say things like, man, I got this thing inside of me, this urge, and it just kind of makes me want to do things that I know that I shouldn't be doing, or I kind of need to stop, but I keep going. And it leads to. Towards hurt and loss and foolishness, and I'm no longer in control of it, but it is in control of me. And that's literally what the Bible says. It's Called slave. It's enslaving you. And so the Bible describes that in terms of a spiritual activity. That's what demons do. Demons lead you towards hurt, loss, foolishness. Every single thing around you is more spiritual than you think.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And so one thing you need to, to watch out if that's maybe the case for you. If you're sensing man. Is this something that could lead me towards an addiction? If you have family members or friends, if you're surrounded by people that maybe wrestle with this, there's something to consider. Here's another one. Maybe it's legal, maybe it's permissible. Yeah. But is it wise? I think for me, you know, we're making it personal here in this season, like, honestly, I don't drink alcohol at all.

[B]

I was about to ask you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've gone, you know, and again, for me, and this season, I've gone through some health issues. We can, I can share those. Share that later. But once you research alcohol, like really right now, and this is part of why a lot of people are kind of moving away from it, the current scientific consensus as of 2026 from all major health organization is clear. There is no truly safe level of alcohol consumption for overall health. The 2025-2030 U.S. dietary guidelines basically shifted away from sand saying, hey, safe in moderation, to now they're just saying, hey, the less alcohol you consume, the better for your health. And so again now, hey, well, it's relaxing. That's okay. Can it be redeemed? Absolutely. Is there a place for it? Absolutely. Does wine have some antioxidant? Yes. Yes, it does. Praise the Lord for freedom. But for me, in this season, it would not be wise. And again, just for other people, maybe again, a family member, they come from addiction, experience, experiences. It might not be wise. And so that's something that you want to consider as well.

[B]

That's right. Well, so I was going to ask you. So you don't drink right now, but for you it's a little bit more of a wisdom thing, a little bit maybe of a consciousness. Like, hey, for you right now, you just don't feel like you need to drink. It doesn't feel like you would if you were doing it would be a sin. You just do, hey, right now, where I'm at.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, again, it'd be, I feel free, my conscience feels free, but wisdom tells me no.

[B]

Yeah. And that's awesome. And that's awesome, by the way. Yeah. And I think actually something you said we probably should say this is like, again, this is one of those things that it can be a gift that God gives. The Bible clearly says that. And it is an easy one, to your point, and easier than a lot of the other gifts that God gives us. It can be very easy to abuse and get to a really. A really hard place where, like you said, it's a stronghold in your life. And listen, if you're listening or watching this, and especially if you're here, local to the Dallas area, you don't have to do that alone. In fact, you can't do it alone. Like, this is one of those beasts that you cannot stand alone.

[A]

And by the way, not just that. That's you. Hey, you want to bring that to the light.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

To people that love you, that are cheering you on, that are for you and want the best of you.

[B]

Exactly. The devil plays in darkness sometimes. We like to say here. And the way you get him to lose power is you bring it into the light and you bring it to others. So we have something here called Regen. It's something that we do regionally. We do a couple locations here at Lake Point and meets weekly at different seasons of the year. And really what it is, it's not just for people who are strung with alcohol. It's for people who are struggling with all kinds of things. Could be codependency issues, issues, other forms of addiction, or even just some kind of a struggle or stronghold in their life that they want to get free from. And what you'll find there is place where other people. There I'm just telling you about, like, the worship services that are part of this are probably some of the best, if not the best at all. Flake Point, in terms of just the vibe in the room. Because what you have in there are people who. When you walk in there, everybody immediately is saying, I'm broken and I need help. There is no pretense. There's no like, oh, yeah, my life's good. It's like, dude, if you're there, you're admitting you have some kind of a problem you need help with.

[A]

That's where freedom happens.

[B]

And then, dude, watch them worship. I'm getting chills. Right now. Is one of the most incredible experiences you could ever experience. And so it's a place where you get to worship, but then also, you get into community and you get to share your struggles. And again, when you're sharing, you're not alone. You're with other people who've got their own stuff. But what they're finding is they each have in common a hope in Christ that can help them overcome whatever they're struggling with and community to help them. So if you want to get into that or maybe you know someone who needs to and you're like, okay, what do I do here? You would text REGEN to 20411. That's region. I think we'll maybe even put it on the screen for you. Region to 20411. If you're not in this area, I would just tell you, man, there's so many places locally. Find a place at a church, get some help and get out of this one thing before we move to tattoos. Because I think what I wanted to draw out was really a principle that people could use in a ton of different places because we're talking today just about alcohol and tattoos and can I smoke weed? But really, this is something you need to be able to do for every area because again, we're trying to say, okay, how do I know what has God commanded all people, all Christians everywhere for all time to do versus hey, what maybe do I have freedom to do or not do? And how do I tell the difference?

[A]

Well, hey, Lake Point Family Baptism weekend here at Lake Point is coming up on May 2nd and 3rd. And if you're part of our church family here in any of our DFW physical locations and you have not yet taken that step of baptism, hey, we would love to invite you to do so. Text the word LIFE to 20411 to sign up today. And by the way, if you're not within driving distance of any of our physical locations, we would love to encourage you to get plugged into a local Bible believing, Jesus loving church and take that step of baptism with a local community as well. Also, you're welcome to join us for church online to celebrate those getting baptized here at Lake Point on May 2nd and 3rd as well. And now back to the podcast.

[B]

So I want to actually put a diagram that I first found from a guy named Vaughn Roberts that will kind of really in a sense encapsulate what you and I just did. We didn't tell people we were doing, but we really were doing this. And you we're going to then do this for tattoos and for weed kind of as a path for us. So a simple flowchart, if you are listening to this, not watching, if you kind of imagine kind of a decision flowchart where depending on your answer, it takes you in different directions. So man, whenever you're talking about a specific issue of like, hey, can I drink alcohol? Can I get a tattoo? Can I smoke weed? Whatever it is, can I go watch Game of Thrones? Whatever. Okay, so first question you got to ask is, man, does the Bible allow it? If no, then don't do it. Now, with this, I will say you have to look for explicit biblical commands, but that's not all you have to look for. Because some people say, well, the Bible doesn't say anything about abortion, and it doesn't say anything about online sports gambling. Well, the Bible doesn't say anything about me vandalizing the graves of fallen soldiers. But I think we would all think it was evil and sinful. I don't need an explicit Bible verse. I can also have implicit principles. So, for example, there might be some things that are not explicitly laid out in the Bible, but the Bible does say to obey the authorities. And so if there's a law against something, then I can't do it, even if I can't find a Bible verse for it. So you can't just. It's not just about finding a simple, clear Bible verse. You also have to look for other implicit principles. Number one, does the Bible allow it? If not, don't do it. If yes, you have to go to the next question. Does my conscience allow it? You brought this up earlier. For some people, even if the Bible is okay with you doing it, there's something in them that feels wrong when they do it. So, for example, let's go back to alcohol. Maybe someone grew up in an alcoholic family or they've seen it devastate and they just feel like they can't be around it and they can't drink it. And if they do, they're doing something wrong. Well, the Bible says in Romans, anything done from without faith is sin. If you don't do it in faith, meaning if this twinges your conscience, don't do it, then okay. But hey, if your conscience allows it, okay, then next three questions. These are the final three. How does it affect other Christians? How does it affect other non Christians? And how does it affect my spiritual life? So if the Bible allows it, and if your conscience allows it, you still need to ask those further three questions. Because as we talked about with alcohol, but applies to others, if I'm doing something that even if the Bible and my conscience allows, if it's hurting my respect before other Christians, or if it's causing them to stumble, like as an example, like if someone's struggling with alcohol, I'm an idiot. If I take them to a bar and I'M causing them to stumble. I'm not going to have a beer in front of them. I'm just not. I'll be like, I'm not going to drink in public. Where I'm at now, there's too many people that don't know and they're on the context. I'm just not going to do that. I don't want to cause a stumbling block. So like in that case, don't do it. But then also, how does it affect my spiritual life? So for example, on this one, get off alcohol and get off all these things we're talking about. Like, I remember when I had graduated college, took a year to work before I went on to seminary, would come home, long day of work and man, I would just get on the PlayStation and play video games and nothing like brutal and violent PlayStation 1.

[A]

Is that what it.

[B]

Wow. Wow.

[A]

Well, I'm just genuinely curious.

[B]

PlayStation 1, I think you just took a shot. At my age, is that what Atari, actually.

[A]

Atari, yeah. There you go.

[B]

I love how I'm 42, I've got to be there for Atari. You can remember PlayStation 1, right? Huh?

[A]

PlayStation 1, right?

[B]

Yes. I was there for college. Yeah.

[A]

I'm saying that's what you played.

[B]

Well, actually in college. Yeah. PlayStation, actually I think I did in PlayStation.

[A]

We only have five, so it's not.

[B]

We have that many Xbox. We had Halo for Xbox, bro. Even Goldeneye was still big at that time. You're looking at.

[A]

Oh, that's 64, bro.

[B]

I played Goldeneye. Okay. Yeah, I got you there. When they signed the constitution anyway, when

[A]

Pong was invented, you were like, wow, this is amazing.

[B]

Right? Dude, that's a joke. Okay, too much.

[A]

Keep going.

[B]

Oh man, I feel so attacked.

[A]

I need to, I need to like. Okay, go ahead.

[B]

So I wasn't playing anything violent or anything like that. I would just play like MLB baseball as my go to. But here's what I found myself doing is I would be playing this for like two or three hours. And what I found is, is the more time I was on it, there was also a direct relationship between that and how anxious I was getting and how frustrating I was getting, how quick tempered I was getting and an adverse relationship ratio to how much time with go I was spending. And so I basically had to make a rule for myself that, hey, does the Bible allow me playing MLB baseball? Yes. Does my conscience allow it? Yes. But then I got to the last question. How's it affecting my spiritual life? Hey, I had to reign it in. I basically said I'm allowed one 45 minute game and then it's off. So I just use that even as like something that's really, really neutral to say, hey, this is just a good grid to take yourself through to make sure you're making wise decisions that honor Christ.

[A]

And that's wise, honestly. You said it, man. That's wisdom, that's maturity. That's beyond the insight, encyclopedic view of like, yes. No, okay. Or not okay. No, no. There's levels to this, bro. So let's do, let's do tattoos, bro. I was this week I was texting Pastor Josh as we made it clear that he is abroad. And he said, man, I'm thinking about like, you know, getting a couple tattoos.

[B]

Oh, no. In Greece, you know, because he's been hesitant before.

[A]

You know, he's. He's talked about getting like a tetelistai tattoo or whatever. And. And so he. He got one.

[B]

No, he did not, bro.

[A]

He texted me the photo.

[B]

No, he did not.

[A]

So I don't know if I'm allowed to share it because he kind of like just, you know. But I think, I think it's okay.

[B]

I mean, what's he gonna do? I think he's not here. And by the time he sees this,

[A]

I think it's okay. If not, we can take down the video. So this is Pastor Josh right here getting a tattoo. He was not having a great time as he was getting his eyes. And then he sent me another one of the one he got on here. There you go. There you go.

[B]

If you're on YouTube. No.

[A]

Yeah, if you're on YouTube or Spotify, by the way, or sorry, if you're not on YouTube or Spotify. Right now we're showing a photo of Pastor Josh with a cat on his hand and the other one, which means it's real, which means it's 100% real. And it means for sure this was not made with AI and for sure, Chad GPT image generator was not used in making of these. Of these photos. No, that's definitely a selfie from Greece. And then if you go to the other one as well, like again, actually. No, just kidding. Okay, there you go. There you go. That's hilarious, bro. I actually got that photo from Pastor Josh in on Vacation. And I don't know how, but it looks like legit. It actually does look legit, by the way, if somebody didn't get it. That's a joke.

[B]

That's a joke. Yeah. Just so you know, like, so you're not flooding his inbox that's right. And his social. Hey, what's your tattoo? And something like that. If you come in person, you're gonna be disappointed. He still does not have a tattoo.

[A]

Okay, so let's talk about tattoos, man. What does the Bible say about tattoos?

[B]

Well, I mean, my question is, you have a tattoo.

[A]

Okay, so I don't have a tattoo. And we're gonna.

[B]

Wait, I thought you got one in your lower back one time.

[A]

No. So in just a second. Definitely not for sure. But, Paul, in just a second, I wanna ask you. Actually, you have a tattoo. I wanna ask you why you have a tattoo. I have tattoos, and I wanna share why I do not have tattoos. And then I wan. Why? You're wrong.

[B]

Let's just go ahead. Especially because you asked, what does the Bible teach about it? I mean, obviously, I'm going to be a little biased, so, yes, I have. I have multiple tattoos.

[A]

Okay, you're very impartial right now. Go ahead and teach the Bible.

[B]

Teach us about tattoos. Might as well show. So I got two tattoos.

[A]

Okay. Whoa, whoa. What are you doing?

[B]

I'm just showing my tattoos.

[A]

Okay, calm down. Don't get too excited.

[B]

Sorry. I should go back to that diagram. And how does it affect others? It might be causing you to stumble right now.

[A]

Definitely not, but I'm just saying more so like, nobody wants to see that, but go ahead.

[B]

Listen. Okay, I'll try not to make people stumble showing my arm. Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

I can't. There we go, we go. There we go.

[A]

Hey, bro.

[B]

So this is trying to flex.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

It's instinctive. You flex when you're on the camera.

[A]

Hey, like, you can show your arm without having to flex your tricep.

[B]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If the tattoo doesn't make you stumble, I apologize, bro.

[A]

Like, hey, it's okay. I'm just trying to. Like, I'm trying to help you over here.

[B]

Anyways. All right, so this one comes from both of the first two that I got is one on each arm comes from Ephesians student. This one is Technon Orges, which literally means child of wrath.

[A]

Wait, what is that in Greek?

[B]

This is in Greek.

[A]

Of course it will.

[B]

So I will say, hey, I want to offer my services because this can go really wrong if you want to get a tattoo in Greek or Hebrew. Okay. Feel free to send me what you're thinking before you email Paul to double

[A]

check that the tattoo is exactly what you think.

[B]

It's because I have seen unfortunate incidents where people thought that they were Saying something. And it was something very different in the original language. So just feel free to send me in your Greek and Hebrew tattoos, and I will confirm for you. So, yes, this is Ephesians 2, the idea of man. It says at one point, every one of us were children of wrath. We deserve the wrath of God for our sins. But then here on the other arm,

[A]

it says, but God, Another Hebrew tattoo.

[B]

No, this is Greek. This is Greek. This is Ephesians 2.

[A]

You know, your chatgy posse when one is in Greek and the other one's in Hebrew.

[B]

Go ahead. So this one right here is the idea of man. This is who I once was, that before Christ, I was a child of wrath. But then I just love this simple phrase over here. But God, he changed all of that by Jesus Christ coming down the cross. So I got this to honestly remind myself of who I once was and who I now am. But then, also, frankly, another reason. It's not the biggest reason, but it was a small reason. And it's happened anytime. Anytime that I'm out in public in a sleeveless shirt, no jokes, or, like, if I'm at a pool or I'm hanging at the beach, without fail, someone's like, hey, man, what is. What do those mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm able to explain it to them, and then I'm literally able to write, then take them to Ephesians 2.

[A]

And I love that.

[B]

And share my story. Got another one here. I've got one on my chest here.

[A]

Chill, chill, chill.

[B]

Try not to share too much. I'll just show it to you.

[A]

We want to keep this bg, Paul.

[B]

You can blur that out if you want to, you know, kind of a thing. That's just Mount Baker up in Washington.

[A]

I don't want to get censored on YouTube or, you know.

[B]

No, right. Oh, man, all the things. I'm turning red by the minute here. Anyways, I'm giving you a hard time, so just know I am gonna be a little biased, but, you know, I do feel like I'm right on this. Does the Bible allow tattoos? Yes.

[A]

Okay, great.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Thank you, man. Let's talk about weed now.

[B]

No verses against it. Yeah. Well, would you say no?

[A]

No.

[B]

Or would other. Would other people say no?

[A]

So let me ask you this. Some people would say, well, Paul, Leviticus 19:28 explicitly, literally says this. I'm gonna read it verse. Verse 28. Do not cut your bodies for the dead, and do not mark your skin with tattoos. I am the Lord. Okay, explain that verse. Explain away, please.

[B]

Man, I guess I just, I. I didn't read that before I got these. I must have.

[A]

You never heard that one.

[B]

That's why you removed your lower back tattoo. Anyways, again, for. For people who don't. He does not. Actually.

[A]

We're giving each other a hard time, but this is a joke.

[B]

He does not have a lower back tattoo.

[A]

I do not.

[B]

Never has.

[A]

And not that you would know if I did, but go ahead.

[B]

So actually, this is a good example of that first question when I said, hey, what does the Bible say? And really, like, does the Bible allow this? There are places where maybe there's like one verse or two verses, or maybe it's in a book like Leviticus where you want to make sure you're reading like any verse, the verse in context, and making sure you understand the historical context and the wider context of the passage. Okay, so on the one hand, this is very clear, don't get a tattoo. But let's talk about context. In this section of Leviticus, what God is telling the Israelites are different rules for them to follow or things to do and not to do, so that they would not look like the surrounding nations around them. That's a huge thing. Hey, I'm sending you in here. You need to make sure you're holy, set apart and different from the nations around you. This ties in specifically whenever he talks about not cutting yourselves for the dead. Because that's the thing. Sometimes people say, don't get. It says, don't get a tattoo. It's directly connected to the idea of don't cut yourselves for the dead. So in Canaanite religion, it was very common for people to cut themselves either as a way to experience express mourning. There's literally a story about the God El who cuts himself in order to express mourning over the dead. And it is a way basically to invoke the gods. So you actually see, I believe it's the prophets of BAAL showdown with Elijah. What do they start doing? They start cutting themselves in order to get the gods to respond. Another thing that tattoos or cutting would have marked out is you're belonging to a specific deity. Well, the Jews did not need this because they had other external means such as circumcision, circumcision, types of clothing, and other purity laws that they follow that mark them out. So this is not a blanket injunction against any and all tattoos. It's tied to a specific thing at that time. This kind of leads to the next thing, which is we gotta remember we've talked about this on another podcast. In the law, the Old Testament law, there are really, in a sense, three branches or different types of law. You have the moral law, things like do not kill, do not lie, things that, by the way, Christians are still bound to obey. Then you had the purity ceremonial laws and the civil laws given specifically to the the nation of Israel. And so, as Christians, what we believe is that when Jesus fulfilled his mission, he also fulfilled the law. Now, when it comes to moral law, we're still obligated to obey those. Like, you don't get a free pass in killing people. Sorry. But when it comes to the ceremony or civil laws, we are no longer bound to obey those. If you say we are. So when people quote this verse to me, I say, okay, go. I believe just one verse before this where it talks about not marring off the sides of your hair or your beard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So do you obey that? Sure. And so we get kind of picky and choosy. But I will say, when you read Leviticus, in this same chapter is where it says, love your brother, your neighbor as yourself. So as you're going through Leviticus, there are rules, sometimes side by side, that are moral for all time. But there's others that were given for this time. So in this case, I'd say, hey, I believe this was given for this time and not for all time. Now, there's another argument. I'm just gonna go and say. I don't usually use this argument. Usually my explanation for that verse is enough, at least for the people I'm talking to. Others would argue, this is where I can't wait to see you get triggered. But, hey, the other reason why it's okay is because Jesus himself in the Bible has a tattoo. In the book of Revelation, he has a tattoo on his thigh. And if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me too. Okay, now, I mean, what do you say to that?

[A]

Well, it's funny that you say that because. So let me. Let me nerd out a little bit here.

[B]

Nerd out.

[A]

This is a little bit of a hot take with this conversation with Christensen Tattoos. So, one. First of all, let me just say this, man, praise God for the freedom that we have in Christ. And honestly, it's my favorite to hear. So stories of people using their tattoos to share the gospel, I think that's great. I think what you said about Leviticus makes a lot of sense. Now, for clarity, I personally don't think Revelation 19:16 means Jesus literally had a tattoo.

[B]

Oh, Carlos.

[A]

Now, some people, when they hear me Say this. They'll be like, oh, that's the most obvious thing. While other people will be like, why?

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

It's right there. So let me just read the verse. Revelation 19:16. This is what it says on his robe. Talking about Jesus. At his thigh eye was written this title, King of all kings and Lord of all lords. So a couple things. Number one, the word tattoo is just not in the text. So let's just start there. It says it's written on his robe. That's right, sure. Number two, the genre of. I sound so terrible saying that. That's terrible. Number two, the genre of Revelation is apocalyptic literature.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

So it uses apocalyptic imagery. And so it says that his eyes had fire and, like, there's a sword coming out of his mouth. Like, that's.

[B]

I don't think symbolic imagery.

[A]

I don't think it means that there's a literal sword coming out of Jesus

[B]

unless it's a thousand years and then it has to be literal if you're a premillennial. Right.

[A]

Okay, we're not going to go there.

[B]

I'm just teasing. That was from the previous episode. You. You got shots on me. I had to fire one back at you from last week.

[A]

Number three, it says the tattoo was on his robe at his thigh. So the reason why most people believe the inscription is on his robe, not on his skin, is because in Greco Roman, in ancient Near Eastern cultures, it was actually a thing for kings and generals to have title embroidered or inscriptions on their garments at the thigh level. And it represented power and royal authority. So that's kind of what. That's kind of the point of. Of the text. And then last one, you know, some, not all, but some religious, devout Jewish people would actually interpret Leviticus 20 or Leviticus 19:28 as a clear binding Torah prohibition against voluntarily getting a tattoo that is permanent.

[B]

Still do today.

[A]

So they would be skeptical of an interpretation where Jesus is all of a sudden like, there's a tattoo right there on his can. So that's that. I will say this. Some might disagree. That's okay. We can disagree on.

[B]

If I was in the rabbinic Jewish tradition, I guess I would have to bond myself to that.

[A]

So. But the bottom line is, because this is important, because somebody's gonna get upset about this in the comments and gonna get all fired up. The bottom line is, here's what I would say, tattoo or no tattoo, here's the point of this. Don't miss it. Jesus is coming back in glory to reign as king Of Kings and Lord of Lords. That's the point.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

That's the point.

[B]

Well, and I will say the lesson there as we're having this conversation is like. Cause I don't go there when people ask me that question. I know, go to the Leviticus 1 and just try to explain the context. My point, though is sometimes we're having these conversations, we'll pull out these little details like that and make these. That's interesting. They're fun. But at the same time, it's like, I don't even need that to make the point. So sometimes these conversations, we'll get these little pieces of scripture and really stretch them to breaking points in ways maybe they weren't intended to. But to go back to the question of tattoos. So, hey, does the Bible allow. Personally, I would say yes. In our day, it would be now some people would disagree. That's where I would say this becomes then an area of conscience. If you remember that kind of flowchart. Is the Bible out? I would say yes. If you say no to me, I would say I disagree with you. That's why this would be more of an area of conscience. If you don't feel like you can get one and honor God, then don't. And other people don't do it for practical reasons. They're like, well, my skin will sag. Or hey, if they may be in a profession where if they had any visible tattoo, that would kind of be the thing. Okay, you got to think about that.

[A]

So let me tell you why I don't. And then we can Latin and we need to talk about weed after this. So you told me why you do you know. Yeah, you got it. I would say for me, here's why I don't. So for me, it's really a matter of like, conscious calling and culture. And I'll bring in the culture card here in a second. So. And I didn't alliterate on purpose, by the way. That was just an accident. So obviously I said this before I was born and raised in El Salvador. Today, El Salvador is actually one of the. It has one of the lowest homicide rates in Latin America. But some years ago, actually not long ago, El Salvador has actually been known as the murder capital of the world because of its homicide rates are so high, primarily caused by gangs. And so. So I grew up in the 90s in El Salvador in the 1900s, having tattoos have often been associated with being a part of a gang. So like MS.13 and all these other gangs, historically, there's been a strong stigma to it. And so when I left El Salvador as a teenager, came to the US I started a ministry on YouTube, started sharing my faith through videos on YouTube. My platform started growing, especially with people from Latin America. And so now I'm in my early 20s and now all my friends in ministry are kind of getting tattoos. And I think, man, they look so cool, like you're the cool tattooed preacher. And I'm like, well, maybe I can get a tattoo. And then I'm kind of processing through this. And I kind of got hit with two things that I still hold today for me. Number one, first Timothy 4:12. This is what it says, don't let anyone look down on you because you're young, but set an example for the believers in speech and conduct, in love and faith and impurity. By the way, if you're a Christian and you're young, you have a holy obligation to set an example you to all believers. This is true. So when our ministry started growing in the early 20s, in my early 20s, I had the opportunity to. But God opened the doors for me to, you know, travel and preach and minister to lots of young people, especially in Latin America. And what I learned is that I did not want to be a stumbling block for them and somehow set an example that would be a net negative for them in their culture and in their context. And so, and so for me, I was like, I think I'm good. That's the first one. Second reason is number two. 1 Corinthians 9, 22. You said it, Paul. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do this for the sake of the gospel that I may share in its blessing. My life's calling and mission is to be a preacher and an evangelist around the world or wherever God calls me. And from an early point in my life, in my early 20s, I knew that if I had tattoos on my body, I knew that it would become an obstacle for me to be able to enter and preach in different countries, cities, churches or cultures, especially in Latin America. So again, for me, my purpose was more important than my preference. And for my mission, it would not be a sin to get a tattoo, but it would be a net negative. And so again, I learned that then, and that's okay. I am free to be like open handed God, you can do whatever you want. Yeah, would have been cool, sure. But you know what? Help me be efficient in doing what God has called me to do.

[B]

That's good. And for context, for people who don't know this. And a lot of people don't know this about you, man. It's like, you're like Mr. Worldwide. You're like, you and Pitbull.

[A]

Nah, I'm not Pitbull. That's right. I'm not Mr. 503.

[B]

You're known on multiple continents. Specifically, you've got an insane following, like, in Latin America. Like, it's crazy. Like, my wife lives down, I believe, in Guatemala. And like, she. She heard that we were from my point. And she is in. She was like, oh, do you know Carlos? And like, that was their first question, man. That was their first question. But with that, it's like, so when you're making video content for you, you have to be very cognizant of the fact that it's not just people here in America, but actually a lot of times other places where this is still a cultural stigma and you don't want to in any way so discord or present a stumbling block. It's just a good example of, again, like, the culture on this has changed in America in the last 20 years. But I still think there's a good principle here, which is like, man, I thought about, for example, of getting a third tattoo here in my forear. The thing that I hesitate on is that, man, sometimes I do meet with people that are from more conservative backgrounds and I don't want to present that at all. And so I'm like, hey, if I do that, I would have to wear a long sleeve shirt when I'm with them. Like, but this, I think the teachable moment here is a few things. Like, number one is like, just remembering. Just because you can doesn't mean you automatically should stop, slow down, ask these questions. Because again, we, while we're free, we have freedom of Christ. We're not free to do whatever we want. We have to ask, how does this affect others? I remember make this short, but I remember a few years ago, I was a camp director and this 20 years ago when tattoos were still a little bit more of a taboo, especially in the South. And we had a rule that if our staff had a tattoo, they had to cover it. And they got really mad at this. And I had to talk to them, like, okay, so like, I just said, hey, so if you went to a Muslim country to share the gospel, what would you wear? And the guys were like, oh, I'd wear like jeans and like, you know, a nice polo shirt or khakis. Nice polo shirt. The girl, the females were like, oh, I'd wear a long dress. I'm like, well, why? And like, well, because I wouldn't want to offend them. I wouldn't want to present any kind of a stumbling block to the gospel. I'm like, oh, so you would bend over backwards for people around the world, but you want for your other brothers and sisters in Christ right here?

[A]

There you go.

[B]

And it's that same kind of a spirit we have to think about wherever we are. The last thing I'd say, hey, because again, I kind of walk them through that is. Okay, how does it affect others? But then, remember we talked about, how does this affect your spiritual life? Well, like, hey, this doesn't. I'm like, well, here's what I would say. If you're getting a tattoo to demonstrate your faith, the question I. I would ask you is, does the life you're living tell the same story as the tattoo that you get?

[A]

There you go.

[B]

That is this. Because what you would want to watch out for is that it becomes common for some people to get a lot of tattoos that are more like faith based, which, by the way, I love. I obviously have them. My one I'm thinking about getting would be one as well. It's just you can become a kind of more of almost like what the Pharisees were doing, which is for Outward Show. It's what Matthew 23 talks about.

[A]

You're going to get a lift free tattoo on that.

[B]

I should actually do that. I'll figure out the Greek version of that.

[A]

Live free. And then, like, Pastor Josh's face.

[B]

Well, no. Hulk Hogan. That's. That's. Sorry, there's an inside joke there. Inside joke. But. But I just say that to say, hey, totally cool, but just make sure the life you're living tells the same story as your tattoo. All right, you want to talk about wheat?

[A]

We're landing the plane with. With weed. And by that, I mean with a conversation of weed. Not that we are landing any planes with.

[B]

I don't have a visual for this. I don't have anything.

[A]

You did not bring it.

[B]

I did not. I did not. Well, I don't have it. That's a joke.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Like, you just tried to entrap me. We. We are in a state where it is legal, and I feel like you tried to entrap me, Carlos.

[A]

We are not in a state where it's legal. Right? Is it legal?

[B]

I said we're in a state where it's illegal.

[A]

Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right.

[B]

Stop leaving people from doing it. But you know.

[A]

Okay, so Trinity, we got a clip here from somebody asking the question. This is George Yanko. I do not know him personally, but shout out George. He's a Christian influencer slash podcaster. Let's play the clip.

[D]

When I'm around these things, I feel like my. My skin's about to explode into fire. So I'm like, okay, I don't like drinking out with people. It's just they're not at their best quality state of mind, and I don't want to be a part of that.

[A]

We got alcohol.

[D]

Smoke weed, though I'm giggly. I am stupid, but I do have a firm grasp of what's kind of going on here at night. I like to partake in one or two joints. Now, for you good men, I don't know if you know what that is, but it's ripping a bong is grabbing a plant from God's earth. Right. So is it wrong for me to offer unwind afterwards and.

[B]

And.

[D]

And rip a bad boy? You know, I mean, like, get as high as my God could possibly take. I'm in a blasphemous way because I want to relate to other pagans like me.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

This is such a good thing to

[B]

like, you know, to ask him to know.

[D]

Well, I'm gonna ask it the way that I feel. Listen, God created it.

[A]

Yep.

[D]

I just light it on fire and it acts me up a little bit. I just want to know, is it bad? And am I considered a drunken friend fool if I do this?

[A]

That's a question.

[B]

I can't wait for you to answer it.

[A]

Carlos, I'm happy to, but I want to let you go first because I got some thoughts.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Again, I just.

[A]

Yeah. So let me ask this way. No, no, actually, just go ahead.

[B]

Well, let me before we get into like, kind of again, using that framework that we already established and using that to kind of walk through some things together. Let me though can kind of highlight something is that some people today would say like, oh, this is like for a younger generation, the way alcohol was for older generations. Oh, at one time, older generation generations thought that alcohol was just evil and sinful. But hey, we actually. No, no, you have freedom to do it kind of a thing. And now this is the same thing. But I would actually say they're related in a sense of. Hey, a big thing about smoking weed that is related to drinking alcohol is it's really about, hey, Scripture tells us to be sober minded in first Peter to your point. And I'll even Elaborate a little bit. You mentioned in Galatians about how it says drunkenness. Now what's interesting, it contrasts that. Then right after that comes comes the fruit of the spirit, which the last one is self control. So part of why drunkenness is an offense to God and is harmful to ourselves is because we lose the self control that God wants us to have. And he wants us, it talks about in first Peter, to be sober minded and to be alert. You can't do that when you're drunk and therefore you also can't do that when you're high. And so I just wanted to connect that because the fear I have for some people is they're like, well, hey, if alcohol is okay, then man, yeah, we can just smoke a joint. They're the same thing. It's pretty much the same thing. It's like, ah, we've got to be more nuanced and careful. So like a few things here, like in terms of the. Does the Bible allow it? First I would just say, hey, it's not legal in a lot of places. And so if you're in a state where it's not legal, then if you're a Christian, no, you're not allowed to do it. But I was in a state, you know what, 20 months ago now in Washington state where it was, dude, like you would drive down and like, bro, if you drove by a dispensary any place that was sound, it was like you could just smell it. It didn't matter if you were not venting in outside air like it was skunk full on when you pass it. It's terrible. See, I was legal there. And so Christians actually would come up and say to us, hey, can I do this? It's legal here. And so a few things, okay, there's no explicit Bible verse about doing it or not doing it. It's just, it's not there. But remember, this is where we also have to ask, not only are there explicit instructions, are there any implicit principles that can be applied here? Okay, I already mentioned one about the illegality. But if you were in a place even where it was legal, man, again, 1 Peter 5:8 says to be sober minded you have to exercise self control. So when someone asked me this, like when someone would ask me this in Washington state or even if they asked me it here and like, well, just in theory, if it ever became legal here, and I'm like, be real with me, this is not just in theory for you. If you're usually when you're asking this, but let's Say it was in theory. I usually ask them some things like, hey, so can you consume weed without getting high? And I usually, when I ask this, I just play down with them like, hey, so can you consume weed without getting high?

[A]

Generally speaking, the answer is no.

[B]

Yeah. Now they may say, okay, well, but if I take a gummy with a specific amount of thc, then yeah, I can. I won't actually fully get high. It'll be just kind of like a light buzz, almost like getting just a slight tipsy from wine. I'm like, okay, so do you do that? And that's usually almost every time I've asked. They're like. And I'm like, so what are we talking? So usually what they're wanting to do is they want to do whatever they want to do. They already have made up their minds they want to do this and they're just looking for a rationale to do that and not feel guilty. So but even theoretically, if they could, like, even if theoretically they only did the. I'd say, hey, are you going to become dependent upon that? Because, well, it helps me sleep. I'm like, okay, well in the same way that there's pills that could help you fall asleep, sleeping pills, but you can become too dependent. That's dangerous. Same thing here. You look like you've been wanting to chime in, man.

[A]

No, I mean, just to echo what you're saying, I think again, when somebody asks you that question, can you smoke weed? They're almost always talking about thc. And THC is the chemical found in marijuana and it's literally what makes you feel high. It's the THC's purpose is intoxication.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so you said it, Paul. I mean that would conflict with the biblical principle of sobriety and sober mindedness and self control. And so you're moving away from that responsibility as a Christian. And so, yeah, I mean, I would agree. Now tell me if you agree with this. I mean, there are some medical uses of marijuana.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Some CBD products that might be acceptable if controlled and under doctor supervision and community. This is, and this is what we say it would be case by case. But even, even then, when prescribed medically, the goal is to get symptom relief, not to get you high.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Yes. There's to me no difference in this than if we're talking about people taking Vicodin or morphine or anything else.

[A]

And to me that's also different than, that's also different than like smoking weed. That's not really the question that was

[B]

asked when we get into this discuss. And whenever I give some of the answers I just gave, they're like, well, what about medical? I'm like, well, do you have a medical issue? At the end of the day, when people ask this, 99 times out of 100, they want to do whatever they want to do, and they're asking for me to rubber stamp it with the Bible and with God. And I just came in there and you're like, hey, you got to ask some questions.

[A]

And from a biblical perspective, you know, for that guy, generally speaking, again, in general, the answer is like, hey, that's not wise.

[B]

Yeah, it's not wise. And so they want to bring this up. I'm like, yeah, if someone has a medical condition and it was prescribed, then yeah. And I would say, hey, in the same way that there are dangers around someone get addicting to painkillers, there could be a danger of this too. And that's why you need medical supervision. But a few. One thing, when I get in this conversation with people, usually that I'm like. I'm like, hey, so let's say even theoretically, like, even theoretically, if it was possible for you to do this and not to get high, I usually like, let me just ask you this scenario. So, like, let's put it this way. It's like we just had Easter. Incredible. Saw like over 2,700 people indicated a decision. Just. We went out this week and celebrated as a staff and just went to topgolf and had a good time and just, like, laughed and it was just. It was great. It was great. And you and I went out there, by the way, good. You can hit a ball, man. You know, you're being. You can hit a ball.

[A]

Nice guy.

[B]

You did. You did mock me at one time, and then I came back and beat you in that one game.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I guess you were being a nice guy. Now you're being. You're not.

[B]

I am not being. My conscience is convicted.

[A]

There you go. There you go. You're obviously better than me.

[B]

I'm not thinking of how this affects other believers. Okay. Anyways, so I would often people this. Okay, so let's say theoretically, when Easter Sunday night, we're just on cloud nine of what God did, and we wanted to get together and tell stories, and let's say a few of us guys got together on staff, pastors on staff, and we drank a glass of wine. We paid for ourselves. We're not using the church card. Paid for ourself. Drank a glass of wine. Had a beer and just shared stories that we'd seen God do. And I would ask the person, hey, would that rub you wrong at all? And almost all the time the person's like, no, not at all. I'm like, okay, so what if we all brought our own dreams joint and smoked it? And every time I've asked something anywhere close to this, they're all the person always like. And I'm like, okay, so it sounds like you would not feel good with us doing it. So why isn't your conscience convicting you of doing it? And that's usually what I say, hey, I'm like, if you were being honest with yourself, it probably is. You're just probably in a weasel your way out of it. So in terms of the others, I say like, man, how does this affect other people? It's just the reality is, y', all, there's more stigma and people are like, there shouldn't be. Well, guess what? There is. And so I just tell people, like, the way I think of it is like this. If we're talking about getting a tattoo of am I allowed to do or not? That is like a three lane highway. There's a few barriers you have to watch out for, but you got a lot of freedom. Alcohol is more like a two lane road where, hey, you're starting to get a little bit more danger, if you will, if you kind of waver off kind of a thing. It's more narrow. But still, hey, there's some freedom. When we're talking about, can you smoke weed or consume any kind of a product like that you're now working walking on a tightrope. And my whole thing is it's kind of like, why are you walking on a tightrope? We're like, to get this, I'm like, is there a better, safer and more acceptable way to get what you're looking for without walking on a tightrope that is very dangerous and can lead you into a bad place? And if so, why wouldn't you be wise and take that other option? So those are a few thoughts in my end.

[A]

Man, let me land this plane here, this way. I think one of the biggest mistakes, well meaning, but sometimes, honestly, immature Christians will make is that we'll keep asking, asking things like, is it okay for a Christian to do this? What about this? And how much of that? And what they don't realize is that what they're asking is, how close can I get to sin without crossing the line? Or basically, what can I get away with as a Christian? As if the Christian life was about just avoiding lines to cross so you don't get punished by God or you feel guilty later. And so all of these are great questions. Obviously, again, we should keep asking, what does the Bible say say on everything? The Bible is not just for this one thing that you do on a weekend. It literally, your relationship with Jesus should affect every single aspect of your life. So we should be asking these questions. And by the way, church is the best place to ask these questions. But I would challenge some of us to stop asking where is the line? And start asking, where is Jesus? And so instead of asking, man, how close can I get to sin? Before crossing that line, I want to be asking, what do I do have to to do to get as close to Jesus as I can possibly can. And when you do that, everything changes. When you find that you're asking that question instead and say, man, how can I get close to Jesus? Mature more like Jesus to become more like Jesus and run in the opposite direction of sin, you'll find more joy, more freedom, more blessing, more purpose, and everything else falls in place. Pastor Paul, would you pray for us?

[B]

Would love to. Yes, God, we, we thank you for the fact that there is absolutely nothing we can do, do or not do that would make you love us any more or less, that your love for us is based on who you are and it's based on what you've done. Thank you for the fact that we don't have to save ourselves but you, by your grace, Jesus came down and saved us by living a perfect life we couldn't live and then dying the death that we deserve to die, and then rising from the grave victoriously. But God, now on the other side of that, now that we've received salvation, we want to live every part of our life, not just Sunday, but every single minute of every day for your glory and in a way that honors you and pleases you, God, I pray that you would give us grace to do that. Holy Spirit, would you help your spiritual fruits grow in us? But God also, we encounter these situations because there's what your word has said, but then there's also cultural expectations or the way culture tries to twist it. Would you just give every single person listening to this, would you give all of us wisdom to be able to discern and to know what you've called us to do, but then also where you've given us freedom and God, though, as we do that, would you give us sensitive, other people, centered hearts, Lord, where even if we have been given freedom to do it. You would help us to see how is this impacting others? How is this impacting our spiritual lives? And let us to know when we need to wisely say no to places where it's okay even if we said yes because it's just not gonna be helpful to us or others. So, God, would you give us that wisdom? And Lord, we commit this week to you. We love you. It is in your name we pray. Amen.

[A]

Amen. Amen. Live free, brother.

[B]

Live free.

[A]

Well, hey, Lakebourne family, thanks for tuning in today. Hey, this upcoming Thursday, April 23, at midnight Central time, we're gonna be dropping a special episode with our friend Frank Turek, one of America's leading Christian apologists of our time. He'll be sharing about his close relationship with Charlie Kirk. We're also going to be talking about Catholicism and the differences between Catholic versus Protestant beliefs and some of the Pope's latest remarks on Islam and so much more. Trust me, you don't want to miss it. We will see you then,

[B]

Sam.