Ep. 153 | All About Hunting Knives - Interview with Josh Smith from Montana Knife Company

Summary

Episode Summary: Live Wild with Remi Warren – Ep. 153 | All About Hunting Knives - Interview with Josh Smith from Montana Knife Company

In Episode 153 of Live Wild with Remi Warren, host Remi Warren delves deep into the essential topic of hunting knives, accompanied by special guest Josh Smith from Montana Knife Company (MKC). This comprehensive discussion explores the intricacies of hunting knife construction, material choices, sharpening techniques, and ergonomic design, providing invaluable insights for both novice and seasoned hunters.

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1. Introduction to Hunting Knives and the Guest

Remi Warren opens the episode by introducing Josh Smith, a seasoned knife maker with over 43 years of experience in the craft [02:33]. Josh brings his extensive knowledge from MKC, highlighting the significance of hunting knives in a hunter's gear arsenal—a subject often overshadowed by discussions on other gear like rainwear or optics.

Notable Quote:

"People talk so much about gear in the hunting world, but nobody really ever deep dives or spends a lot of time thinking about their knife." – Josh Smith [03:45]

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2. The Importance of Quality in Hunting Knives

Josh emphasizes the decline in knife quality over the years due to mass production and outsourcing. He reminisces about an era when knives were predominantly handmade, ensuring durability and functionality.

Notable Quote:

"We lost some quality and some of the things that make a really good knife... with replaceable blade knives and the Chinese stuff being made didn't have the heart and soul." – Josh Smith [04:00]

He underscores the sentimental value of knives, often passed down through generations, unlike other gear that is easily discarded [05:14]. This legacy aspect sets quality knives apart as enduring tools.

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3. Construction and Material of Hunting Knives

Edge Geometry

A key topic Josh discusses is edge geometry—the shape and sharpening of the knife's edge. He explains that the angle and bevel of the blade significantly impact its performance and maintenance in the field.

Notable Quote:

"How the blade is ground from the spine all the way to the edge is basically that angle or that bevel as it rolls in." – Josh Smith [06:00]

He points out that a thinner, well-ground edge reduces resistance when cutting through hides and hair, essential for a successful hunt.

Steel Types: Carbon Steel vs. Magnacut

Josh contrasts traditional carbon steel with MKC’s proprietary steel, Magnacut. While carbon steel is easier to sharpen, it is prone to rust and loses its edge faster. Magnacut, on the other hand, offers superior toughness and edge retention without compromising the ability to resharpen in the field.

Notable Quote:

"Magnacut is extremely tough and has long wear resistance, holding an edge for a long time. But with high hardness, it’s harder to sharpen." – Josh Smith [08:38]

He explains the balance between hardness and toughness, crucial for ensuring the knife can withstand rigorous tasks without becoming brittle [09:34].

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4. Sharpening Hunting Knives

Traditional vs. Reverse Sharpening Techniques

Remi shares his struggles with traditional sharpening methods and learns from Josh about a more efficient reverse technique. Josh advocates for dragging the blade backwards on the stone to create a burr, ensuring a sharper and more durable edge.

Notable Quote:

"You're dragging that edge across the stone, and you can actually feel a burr rising on the other side." – Josh Smith [17:01]

This method allows for more precise sharpening, preventing the edge from being overly worn or unevenly sharpened [19:45].

Sharpening Tools

Josh discusses various sharpening tools, including diamond stones for field use and finer bench stones for home use. He emphasizes the importance of selecting the right grit based on the knife's condition and the type of use it will endure.

Notable Quote:

"A nice little fine diamond is perfect for the field because you don't want to carry oil or water." – Josh Smith [31:38]

He also introduces MKC's custom-designed sharpening stone, tailored specifically for their knives’ edge geometry [26:16].

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5. Knife Design and Ergonomics

Custom Knife Design Process

The conversation shifts to the design elements of MKC knives, particularly the Elkhorn Skinner developed in collaboration with Remi. Josh explains the meticulous process of refining the knife’s handle and blade to match Remi’s specific needs as a guide and hunter.

Notable Quote:

"This handle feels like it was custom ground on a belt, giving it a peaceful, natural feel." – Josh Smith [40:34]

Features of the Elkhorn Knife

The Elkhorn Knife is highlighted for its shorter blade, larger belly, and ergonomic handle designed for comfort during prolonged use. Its robust build ensures it can handle tasks like skinning and quartering without compromising control or safety.

Notable Quote:

"This is so much different than all of our other knives. It’s like a shorter, stubbier skinning knife that’s absolutely badass." – Josh Smith [50:19]

Remi praises the knife’s performance, noting its seamless integration into his hunting workflow and its immediate effectiveness in the field [52:52].

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6. Sheaths and Carrying Solutions

Josh addresses the often-overlooked aspect of knife sheaths, which are crucial for safe and accessible carrying. MKC’s sheaths are designed for versatility, allowing hunters to attach their knives securely to pack straps or belts with reliable retention screws.

Notable Quote:

"The sheath snaps into place with a retention screw so you damn near can't get it out." – Josh Smith [46:04]

He emphasizes the importance of secure sheaths to prevent accidental loss and ensure the knife is readily available when needed, sharing anecdotes of how improper sheaths can lead to dangerous situations [47:55].

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7. Launch of the Elkhorn Knife

The episode culminates with the announcement of the Elkhorn Knife's release. Josh and Remi discuss the knife’s limited availability and encourage listeners to act quickly during the drop to secure their own MKC Elkhorn knives.

Notable Quote:

"These knives are made in America and fully handcrafted by American workers, ensuring top quality." – Josh Smith [54:29]

Josh invites listeners to join MKC’s email list for future releases and emphasizes the unique features that set the Elkhorn Knife apart from mass-produced alternatives [55:35].

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8. Conclusion and Additional Gear Recommendations

In the closing segment, Remi shifts focus to another essential hunting gear—Stone Glacier packs. He shares his favorite models, highlighting their capacity and durability, essential for carrying large game like elk during multi-day hunts. Remi endorses the Skytallus 6900 and Sky Guide 7900 packs, offering listeners a discount code “livewild” for free shipping [56:10].

Notable Quote:

"Having a quality pack that can carry the weight and distribute it makes a big difference." – Remi Warren [56:10]

Remi wraps up the episode by emphasizing the importance of a reliable knife and accompanying gear, encouraging hunters to stay sharp both literally and figuratively for successful hunts.

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Key Takeaways

• Quality Matters: Investing in a well-constructed hunting knife like those from MKC ensures longevity and reliability in the field.
• Edge Geometry and Steel Type: Understanding the balance between hardness and toughness in knife steel is crucial for performance and maintenance.
• Sharpening Techniques: Adopting effective sharpening methods can significantly enhance a knife’s usability and lifespan.
• Ergonomic Design: A knife tailored to a hunter’s specific needs can improve efficiency and safety during hunting tasks.
• Secure Carry Solutions: Proper sheaths and carrying methods are essential to keep the knife accessible and safe.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Live Wild with Remi Warren serves as a comprehensive guide to understanding the complexities of hunting knives. Through insightful discussions with Josh Smith, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the craftsmanship behind quality hunting tools and the practical aspects of maintaining and using them effectively in the wild.

For more detailed information on the Elkhorn Knife and other Montana Knife Company products, listeners are encouraged to visit JMitsubishi Warren's website and subscribe to MKC’s email list for updates on future releases and special offers.

Stay sharp and happy hunting!

Transcript

[A]

Foreign I'm Remy Warren and I've lived my life in the wild as a professional guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days perfecting my craft. I want to give that knowledge to you. In this podcast, we relive some of my past adventures as I give you practical hunting tips to make you more successful. Whether you're just getting started or a lifelong hunter, this podcast will bring you along on the hunt and teach you how to live wild. This podcast is brought to you by Mountain Tough and Yeti. A lot of the tactics I talk about here require you to be in top physical shape. So I partnered with Mountain Tough to help get you ready for the mountain with their science based hunter specific training app. You'll get in shape and mentally tough able to tackle any hunt. Because we really believe this will help you be more successful. As a listener to this podcast, we're giving you six free weeks to get you started. Just use code livewild. Welcome back to Live Wild podcast, everyone. This week I'm joined by special guest Josh Smith of Montana Knife Company. Now, Josh is going to sit down with me and we're going to talk all things hunting knives. We're going to go into the makeup of a hunting knife, the construction. We're going to also talk a little bit about sharpening a knife and just some of the things that you may or may not know that go into a tool that we all use at the end of a successful hunt. So thank you so much for joining me, Josh. I know one of the things that I like to do on this podcast is we like to get into the nitty gritty of a lot of the things that we use all the time and may not know. One of the reasons, you know, we're. Well, I got to go through and see your guys's process here at Montana Knife Company. I've been here before and seen where it started and then now where it's going and it's. It's just incredible to see. It's also really cool to be able to kind of sit down with you and talk about knives because I've used a hunting knife ever since they started hunting. Like, hunting in knives is just an integral piece of gear. And then there's things like when we went through this development process, Josh says, hey, I want to build you a hunting knife. Like, okay. And he's like, what would you like? Oh, okay, I know what I like, but I don't know if anybody. It doesn't matter. You're like, just what do you like? Yeah, I'll build you a knife. And sitting down through the process of that and really understanding what goes into these knives, there's a lot of stuff that I didn't even realize or why do I like us a certain knife a certain way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, there's a lot of things there that I think I found very interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I think one of the things that I like to kind of start out with is, you know, obviously, what can we just let's. For people that maybe don't even know, let's break down a hunting knife. Like, the basic pieces of it and then some of the things that go into building that knife. Because how long have you been building knives? Essentially your whole life.

[B]

Yeah. 43. So I started as 11. So, yeah, 32 years, I guess. So. Yeah. No, and I. I appreciate you having me on. I know you don't do guests very often at all, but it's definitely an honor. And. And it's. It's something that I think is actually really important that. That I think gets missed a lot. People talk so much about gear, the hunting world, right. And we. There's all these gear episodes, and people are talking about base layers and their rain gear and, you know, you know, how do you stay warm, how you stay dry, you know, your hunting packs, optics, guns. And nobody really ever deep dives or spends a lot of time thinking about their knife. But it's the one piece of gear, like you say, you've used literally since the first day you started hunting, you had to have a knife with you, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think over some years, we lost a bit through the production process of knives. We lost some quality, and we lost some. Some of the. The things that make a really good knife, a really good tool, where maybe 50 years ago, almost every knife people were carrying were somewhat handmade, if not fully handmade. Then we started outsourcing a lot of that stuff overseas. We started to try and cheapen products. Right. To make it more attainable. And it was kind of a race to the bottom. And one thing I want to say about a knife before we kind of get into the specifics of it, is, as men, especially for generations, we've passed down knives and guns. Even when I say this to people, a lot of times, people like, man, I never thought of that, but I do have my grandfather's pocket knife or my grandmother's chef's knife. Of all the gear that you use, someday when you have great grandchildren and you might not even be around anymore, it's likely that you know, the clothes you wore, the boots you wore, the packs you use, a lot of that stuff will probably have been gone by the wayside. But rarely when a knife is worn out or a gun's worn out, do we ever throw them away. For some reason, we can't do that. We put it in the safe and we kind of store it. So. But I started seeing that go away with replaceable blade knives and the Chinese stuff being made because it didn't really have the heart and soul. And I. I think that's something I'm proud that we're trying to kind of bring back of like, you know, when you're at your age, how old are you?

[A]

39.

[B]

So at 39 years old, when you're going to on a hunt in Alaska, you're just not thinking about what you're passing down to your grandchildren someday. But somebody's some days gonna be like, man, my grandfather, great grandfather had this cool podcast, and he hunted all over the planet and did all these cool things and met all these cool people. And I have one of his knives that he used. You know, it's going to mean something to somebody down the road, so.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

But anyway, I digress there. Let definitely, let's talk about, like, what makes a good hunting knife and what. One thing that I think people never talk about, because this really is in kind of nerdville of making knives, is edge geometry. People will ask about, like, how hard is the blade? You know, I have this blade that's 68 Rockwell, and it's super hard and whatnot. And there's a few things that people know about, about steel, but people never talk about how the blade is ground. And I hear people say, like, I suck at sharpening. I know we're going to get into sharpening later, but, you know, I suck at sharpening. I'm no good at sharpening knives. But they don't understand the knife that they bought at the store set them up for failure from day one. Right. So how the blade edge is actually ground from the spine all the way to the edge, and it's basically that angle or that bevel as it rolls in. And if you have a really, really thick, heavy edge, how are you going to sharpen that thing down the road in the field on a simple little sharpener out of your backpack, you know? Right. That also creates resistance. Your chef's knives aren't thick and heavy. They're nice and thin. Right. They're light. They pass through meat or vegetables really easy. And the same thing with A, with a hunting knife, you should be able to have a knife that's super thin, that can go through hide and hair with the least amount of resistance, but still be strong enough to survive it the task. Right. And so if you're making a knife that's a choppy knife that you're going to chop kindling with, that's gonna have to look a little bit different than a 3 inch bladed hunting knife that you're caping and gutting with. You're not asking it to do these crazy tasks as far as needing to chop through things or whatnot. So it doesn't have to be the same edge geometry. So I think that's one thing that's really important is how the blade is ground. So when you feel that blade with your fingers and you're running from the spine down to the edge, is it nice and thin behind that edge? That's gonna, and when you sharpen, you take steel away, right? You're grinding steel off the edge. Well, the more weight and the more heft you have behind that edge, the more work you have to do to get it back to a good condition, you know. And I don't know how, how far you want to run down the rabbit hole. But the other thing is steel, you know. Yeah, there's stainless steels. We make knives out of stainless steel. We make knives out of carbon steel. They're both great steels. You know, this knife right here is stainless steel. Takes less care and whatnot. But this is a brand new steel that came to the market just a couple years ago. We were the first production knife company to use it. It's called Magnacut and it's extremely tough, but it also has a long wear resistance. Right. So it holds an edge for a long time. But you know, if you have a blade that's crazy, crazy hard, that's also going to mean that's hard to sharpen because there again, you're grinding steel off that edge with a sharpening stone. If you can't take any steel off in the field, if you can't, you know, get that steel to move on your stone, you can't get it sharp. And so there's a real balance there of trying to find it has to be hard enough and wear resistant enough to last a long time in the field. But you also have to be able to maintain it yourself.

[A]

You know, that's a great point because I think I get a lot of questions of, okay, I have this knife and it's, it doesn't stay sharp and Then there's people who be like, I have this knife, but it's. I can't get it sharp.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it does boil down to the steel. Essentially, the quality of what's going in is the quality that comes out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then also knowing, well, what kind do I like? Because there's a difference between this Magnacut and then, you know, another type of steel that might be easier to sharpen or.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Like a 440C or something that's, you know, easier to resharpen. But it wears out fast. Yeah, correct. And the thing is, is every knife that's ever been made and ever will be made will go dull. Like your knife is going to go dull. It's a matter of how fast. And then can you get that edge back? Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's. I hear people say, like, I have this blade at 68 Rockwell. It's crazy hard and whatnot. It's like, that's fine. But when that knife goes dull, good luck getting it sharp. Also, it's an inverse scale. So when that blade is crazy, crazy hard, it's also more brittle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So hardness is up here on the scale. Up at 100, then your. Your toughness is going to be down low, you know, down here at the bottom of the scale. If you're just listening on the podcast, you know, if hardness is 100, then your toughness is going to be at a zero. Right? Yeah. So that means if you want that blade that hard, you have to make it thick and heavy, because if it's thin, it's going to snap. You're going to break it really easy. If you hit bone, it's going to chip. So you saw knife companies go with these crazy hard blades with an S 90v steel, and it's crazy hard, and the edge lasts forever out of the box. Once it was dull, people just got rid of them because they couldn't sharpen them. And those knife companies weren't going to sharpen the knife for you for free. Now you start bringing that scale down, your hardness starts to come down. Let's say it comes down to a 75. Your toughness now comes up to a 25. And it. So it starts to kind of balance. And so as a knife company, you have to find out what is the use case for that knife. If it's a chef's knife, we might leave it up higher with the toughness a little lower because you're not chopping kindling and hitting bones like crazy and whatnot. But if it's a If it's a camp knife, you might want to bring that hardness down to where it's a 50 and your toughness is now 50 and it's real balanced. And so there is this really fine line of like scientific metallurgy that goes into this stuff. It's not just like, oh, I just made a knife. It's very scientific. When I did all my mastersmith testing as a young person, like, you know, I had to make a blade that would chop a 1 inch rope in half and two 2 by fours in half and still shave and then bend 90 degrees in a vise without breaking.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So that shows that you have control over that knife. Can hold an edge for a while, but it also is tough.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't get to just have one or the other. You need both when you're in the field.

[A]

Yeah. That's all. I like that, that balance in it too, because when you're hunting, you're utilizing it in a lot of different ways. You need that edge for skinning or cutting, making your lines. You need it for cutting the meat. But then you also need it to get in some of those joints and pop a joint or I mean, I use mine to cut through the sternum and the rib cage. If I'm gutting something, I like to take the bone in back straps as well. So I'll leave the ribs attached to the back strap and I just get it in there and pop those ribs off the spine. And there's some knives that just cannot do that. There's a lot of knives that can't do that.

[B]

That's where you start testing your toughn.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's not about edge holding anymore. It's about actually surviving through the end of the process.

[A]

I do want to talk about, like, let's just look a little bit because you've got carbon steel and then you've got this Magnacut. So what would be an advantage if a guy's looking at two of them together? What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of each? Because there's definitely a reason that you use both those.

[B]

Yeah. And the carbon steel was something I'd used forever. And honestly, the Magnacut is slowly replacing the carbon steel for us. And, and, but the carbon steel has been a phenomenal steel forever. We use 5200, which is a ball bearing. Steel. Ball bearings are made to resist wear. That's literally their job in industry. Yeah. And forever. Knife makers have always basically commandeered steel from industry and found out it was good for making knives. And that's what we did until Magna Cut came along. A PhD metal, or just who is the son of a knife maker, realized that he needs to invent a steel for knife making. It's not for industry, it's actually for us. And so with carbon steel, the thing that it always did forever that was so much better than stainless is it was tougher. It had that toughness level where you could bend that blade or you could do these different things and it would flex and not just snap. Magnacut was invented to perform similar to other stainless steels in an edge holding category, but be far superior in toughness than the other stainless steels out there. Like an S30 volts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Carbon steel is easier to resharpen, but with that it's going to come. It's going to become a little bit quicker to lose its edge.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. But it's going to be easier to maintain. But people a lot of times like that because they can really quickly get an edge back. You're going to have to work just a little bit longer to get an edge back on this knife than you would it's twin in a carbon steel blade.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But the drawback to the carbon steel is, is anywhere that you see bare steel exposed, it's going to rust.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's a maintenance challenge. The logos and the edge and that kind of stuff, those are really basically the. The simplest form of why the two different steels. And honestly, when I started Montana Knife Co. Magnacut had not yet been invented. It was the following year. And so we started using Magnacut after I did some testing. And I think over time it will probably almost entirely take over our line. Because now I have a steel that's stainless and still performs similar to the 52100.

[A]

Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've noticed. I really like. I mean, these are the first knives that I've used in Magnacut, obviously. And man, I, I love it. And it is a little bit harder to get that edge back. But I'm okay like this, this knife right here, when it comes from you guys. I did an entire elk without. I think I only touched it up a couple. Like, I just, I like to maintain. I don't like to get it dull enough.

[B]

I'm the same like you're like.

[A]

I'm for. But okay. I'm touching it up on a ceramic and then I, I think you. By the time you get to the head, though, that's always the hardest. I think the hardest part is like cutting the bottom jaw because at that Point. You've done everything and now you're hitting bone and you're. And I pretty much went the knife through the entire process. I think I was like, all right, I better stop and sharpen this. Because you're working hard and then you're like, oh, yeah, yeah. And then you sharpen it up and you go, oh, sweet like butter. And then it's all good. I think a lot of people, a lot of hunters struggle in the, maintaining a blade for the process. Because, you know, one of the things like I, we do, I do primarily the gutless method on a lot of things. And I'll even, you know, I see guys, like, oftentimes I try to leave, I always cut the bottom hoof off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I see those guys, like walking around, like, sticking out. I'm like, what are you guys doing? Just like, to carry extra weight generally, like, I take the bottom jaw. Like, I, you know, we, we break them down. Yeah. You know, and anytime you, it seems like anytime you're accessing bone with a knife, you're losing edge faster than you would just cutting meat. So sometimes I leave that to the end, but it's always better if it's on the animal to have leverage.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

On the animal to just do it fast.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So I think, though, a lot of guys that I, I encounter kind of struggle with maintaining the edge of the knife. Also a little bit of sharpening. And I think, well, even on my end, like, I, I can get a knife fairly sharp. I feel like I, but I, nobody's ever showed me how to sharpen a knife. I've probably done it wrong every time. Like, I, I think I, I take a little too much off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, for the longevity of the blade, the way that I'm doing it. And then I saw a video recently of you doing it. I go, oh, that's how it's supposed to be done. I got my whole life, like, getting knives sharp one way. And I think that, you know, the way that you recently did it, I was like, oh, I actually learned something. I was like, okay. And I've been doing it that way ever since. The way that I've kind of always done it is cutting into the sharpener.

[B]

Yeah. That's, that's the classic way. And it's the way I teach it is, you know, kind of brand new to the hunting industry. There's several, there's a lot of knife makers that do it this way, but no one, everyone in the hunting industry. It's the old fashioned kind of Cut into the stone and you can get your knife sharp that way. You can for sure. Obviously plenty of people do. But it's actually very difficult to feel for what you're trying to feel for, to get it sharp. The way that I teach it, you're actually going basically backwards on the stone where if the edge is towards you and you start towards your body and you push away with the knife, you're kind of dragging that edge across the stone. But what you feel is a burr that rises on the other side of the edge that you can clearly feel with your fingers. And so you can really actually know, like, oh, in this whole section here of this knife, I have this nice burr, but I get right out towards the belly of the knife where 90% of the work is done. I still don't have a burr. That means I still have a flat spot on that edge. It's still not. I haven't gotten that stonework all the way across that edge. So it's very easy to teach brand new people to actually, like, feel for what they're looking for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And get an edge. And there's really two setups if you want to go into stones just a little bit like in the field.

[A]

Actually, I'd like to mention something because, you know, you talk about the burr and the best. We went down and we were sharpening some of these knives on the. The belt grinder. Yeah, the belt grinder. And it was like immediately apparent when you. You did on the belt grinder. Okay. You're. You go one side and then you go another side. And what that burr is, is the last. Is this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The last side that you do.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Pushes the metal over.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because then you'd go back on the other side and then it pushes it back. So it's pushing it back and forth. So the, the opposite side of the blade, of the last side you just sharpened will have this little bit of edge where that was the one that was last run on.

[B]

Yeah. Whether it's a belt grinder or a sharpening stone, you're going to have. If I tell people, imagine a saw, like a wood saw with really aggressive teeth. But imagine if those teeth were laid over at a 30 degree angle, one side or the other, it wouldn't work real well. If you're trying to saw straight down and those teeth are laid over. Right. So we have to figure out how to get those aligned straight down the center of that blade.

[A]

And so that sharp knife is essentially not having the burr on either side, but it's the both Sides matching each other, Correct?

[B]

Yeah. And if you look at an edge of a knife under a microscope, it will look like a miniature saw. You'll have microscopic teeth left on that edge. Now, the more that you buff or strop or the. The finer and finer stone you use. You know, if you. If you start with a 220 grit stone and you finish with a 10,000 grit stone and you look under microscope, you're going to have a crazy fine, really small tooth edge, which is going to make probably for an amazing chef's knife, but it's going to suck on elk hair. Right. Now, if I stop at 600 grit or a thousand grit on my stone, when you look under a microscope, you're going to have a lot more aggressive tooth. It's going to look more like a wood saw versus like a fine jeweler saw. Right. So that those teeth that you're left with are what are actually doing the cutting, especially out in the field on an elk hunt. So, you know, I actually, you know, we tried to not actually cut across hair, but let's just say it's hide. Right. Or meat. Those teeth are biting, and they're grabbing at whatever you're cutting. If it's rope, if it's elk hair, if it's meat, whatever. Those teeth are biting. Now, as your edge starts to diminish throughout the process, those saw teeth start to round over. They start to shorten.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. And so you start to get the effect that, like, I'm starting to work just a little bit harder. Instead of just sawing through beautifully, I'm now kind of pushing, I'm kind of pulling harder. Right. Later in the process, like you said, you get to the point where you're working too hard. Those teeth have really dulled over, maybe are completely smoothed off. At a certain point, you will be so dull that you'll have basically a flat spot where there's nothing left on that edge to cut. And you can run across your arm. It's not going to hurt you. So what you're doing by touching it up two thirds of the way through that elk, three or four strokes on each side, you're just freshening those teeth that are still there.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's what is interesting. If you take a razor blade straight out of a. Of a Home Depot pack, of a utility knife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you just take that razor blade out of a pack and run across elk hair, it won't cut it. Right. It'll cut paper like crazy, like on a push cut.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But a Razor blade doesn't have any of those teeth. It's finely buffed off, you know, super smooth, and it's amazing for certain tasks, but it's not aggressive. It doesn't do well in really, you know, heavy rope. You run it through across a rope, it's not going to cut rope. It's not going to cut elk hair. Yeah. But if I run that same blade over a thousand grit stone and I. And I develop some teeth, you're going to run it over rope and it's going to drag across there and it's going to be trying to actually bite that rope.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

That's what you're looking for for a working edge.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know. Now, what's the most impressive hair shaving cutting, you know, a paper cutting edge? Yeah. I could buff the heck out of an edge and have it cut silk scarves for you and be the most impressive hair shaving tool at Western Hunt Expo. And everyone will be amazed. And you go slide across elk here and it won't cut it. Right, Right. So we actually sharpen our knives to have a working edge where it's not going to be the most impressive hair shaver or the most impressive, you know, paper cutter. Yep. But in the field, it's just going to, like, why does this thing just keep going? Even though I've been working for so long with it, it's still going. It's because I still have some teeth left. Even those teeth are getting dull. They're still there. They're still working like a dull saw.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's still it. You know, it's not perfect, but it's still. It's still there.

[A]

That's. It's interesting you say that, because I noticed that with a lot of single bevel broadheads.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's like, everybody gets these single bevel broadheads. And it's like it shaves your arms so clean. What do you do with a broadhead? You shoot it through hide.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And these animals with these really thick, like, a lot of hair, it's like that broadhead essentially comes out so dull on the other side compared to a double bevel broad. You know, where it's got two edges and it just stays sharp. It doesn't feel as sharp off the bat, but when it goes through hide and everything, you get way better penetration.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I go, oh, okay. Like, there it. There's a difference between the type of edge it seems like and how smooth and find that edge is.

[B]

There is. Yeah. And it's. You and I are similar. You Know, I have people come up to me at shows and I, I love it, I appreciate it. But they come up and they're like, I've done three elk with this knife. I've done seven deer, six turkeys, 17 rabbits, whatever. And I've never sharpened it. It's amazing. And I'm like, I just sharpened that thing a long time ago.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Like, it's cool. I'm glad it's working for you. But I'm, I'm more of the kind of like, I will stop for a second also, like, hey, stand up for a second, stretch your back, like, take a rest from breaking down an elk. Right. Look around, enjoy the moment for a second. Get your sharpening stone out and hit it two or three times and then go back to work and you're just going to have a lot better experience. Right. And we, we developed a stone with work sharp specifically to carry in your backpack to sharpen at the grit that we sharpen at. Like, everything was developed of that stone to have it light in the pack again. This isn't a heavy use. Like, hey, I've got my grandfather's knife and it's been dull for 60 years. That's a different stone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I need something in my pack that's just going to help me get through. You know, if I'm a guy, it's going to get me through a few elk or whatever I need to do till I get back home or base camp or whatever. And then I might sit down with a more robust stone and kind of like reset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sharpen for like, for real.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah. Let's talk about maybe some of the different types of sharpeners. And then maybe like we were talking, we kind of jumped away from finding that edge in the way that you go in re. I guess in reverse. Yeah. For the, for the actual sharpening.

[B]

Yeah. So, you know, there's a ton of different sharpeners out there. There's, there's a lot of different options. Let's talk about like out in the field first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm assuming that you're walking into the field with a sharp knife. Right, Right. I would hope so. Right. So if you're doing that, then you're not going to have to do any crazy heavy, heavy sharpening when you're in the field.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you need something to touch it up. The problem I have with some of the touch up sharpeners is they're way, way too aggressive of a stone. And these companies have had to make these super aggressive stones because I Talked about it in the beginning. Crazy heavy, behind the edge, crazy hard. And so you've got these stones that are of a, of a lower grit and they're much more aggressive, but they have to be that way to remove steel off of a super hard and thick blade.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Well, we were making these knives with thinner edges and, and with the edge geometry we have. But I wasn't happy with like the backpack sharpeners that were out there. So we, we did our own and we did it with a, with a grid of a stone that's going to work well for a knife that's already in decent shape going out. And it's just a touch up two or three strokes across that and then strap it once or twice and you're good to go. So if we talk about that, we. I actually start at the tip and I push away from my body with that edge facing me. So again, I'm dragging that thing backwards across and then I'll flip it over and I'll start at the tip and I drag it back towards myself with the edge away from me.

[A]

Okay. And you're starting at the tip. Both.

[B]

I start at the tip.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yep, yep, do that.

[A]

That's where I. Because I was doing the backwards thing and I'm like it. I didn't have the, the flow right. And I think I wasn't starting at the tip.

[B]

Yeah. And the other reason for that and for people that can see this on the podcast, the, you know, on video, but if you're cutting into the stone, people come across that stone and they kind of flick their wrists at the end and they round the tip of their blade off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because the tip of this blade is the thinnest part of the blade. Right. The steel is going from, you know, 120 or whatever, thousands back here all the way to zero. Right. So it's going to take a little bit more work to sharpen this portion of the blade back towards like the plunge grinds than it is right here at the tip. And so you have to do less work there. Well, people will. I see these blades and the tip is gone on them after a few times of sharpening because they keep taking too much off. Well, if you start at the tip, you can kind of change the angle of your blade a little bit to where maybe all the work I need to do is back here. Maybe I hit some bone or I hit a rock when I was chopping some wood or something and I. And I dinged a spot back here in the edge back in the Belly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ignore the tip, Stay off the tip. Just sharpen that area for a while, and then at the end, make a few full passes to kind of smooth out that whole entire edge. But there's no sense in taking life out of your blade up here on the tip when all your damage is back here in the middle of the blade.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So a couple passes on that stone and. And that particular stone that we have, I wish I had it in here, but it actually has bevels at the end of the stone where you can set your blade on it, and it shows you that's the. That's the angle you need to be at.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And people always ask, what's the perfect angle? If we don't address this, you'll have a ton of comments asking or DMS, you know, generally 15 to 20 degrees. So like, a chef's knife would be like 15. That's a lot slighter of an angle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You figure, like, the difference between a chef's knife and a splitting maul. Okay. Splitting maul is a wedge that's striking a piece of wood, and it's got to be really robust and have a ton of steel behind that edge. And a chef's knives cutting tomatoes. Right. It's super, super thin, thin angle. Right. So that's that 15 degrees. As you. Depending on what kind of abuse your edge is going to be putting up to, we're. We're steepening up that angle up to, like a camp knife at 20 degrees. That's like chopping through kindling.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Most of our honey knives are 15 to 17 degrees. And we. So we set up our. Our angle on our sharpener to match that, where you can just place it on there. And that way when you're on the stone, you can just be checking your angle.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I tell people, don't worry so much about the angle. A lot of people think that, like, if their angle's off one degree, they're not going to get it sharp. It's not true. Like, yeah, give yourself a little grace on that angle part of it. After making a couple strokes on the stone, real light passes at the end, maybe a heavy one or two, a medium one or two, and a light one or two. You should be good to go. But again, like you said that those teeth are kind of laid over to one side at that point.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So you need to strop it. Right. The opposite side of our sharpener has a little fine ceramic. You can hit it on there once or twice. Honestly, I'll do it on top of my leather boot right on my toe box of a leather boot just backwards right across that leather on my boot or my belt. Take my belt off. You can strap it on there. And we could even do a quick video after this that you could have separately for some of these tips. But yeah, just a slight little strop and it just aligns that wire edge from being laid over to being dead center and you're back to work.

[A]

That's perfect.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah, that, that was, it was cool seeing that because we, we felt that. And then you just hit it with the leather strop afterwards and it's like, oh yeah, that burr edge is gone. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And you felt down in the, in the sharpening room, we strapped a little bit and I had just a tiny bit of a wire edge still there.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I just lightly hit it one more time and it was like instantaneous. The difference.

[A]

Oh yeah, right. That, yeah, it was like sharp but now it's.

[B]

Now it's smoking.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Now as far as sharpening stones and the kinds, there's diamond, there's whetstones, there's oil stones. You know, I like diamond out in the field because I don't, I don't want to have to carry oil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't want to have to deal with water and all that stuff. So a nice little fine diamond. Back at home. I think everyone should have a bench stone in their garage or you know, in their cupboard that they can get out and sit on the counter. And you know, there's stones that we sell that are different kinds and whatnot. Sometimes you need to have a rougher stone to start off with. Like usually these stones are two sided.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So you might start off like a 220 grit side and you kind of do some work. Maybe you've got some edge damage or whatever and you're just removing steel. You're just making some progress resetting kind of the angle of your edge and whatnot. Maybe you've sharpened this knife for four seasons in a row and it's just jacked up. Right. Okay, let's reset. We really do some heavy work on that 220 grit stone. Then we flip it over and we go to like that 6 or 800 grit stone. We lighten up our pressure and we start to dial in that sharp edge and then we strap it on a belt. The other thing that we offer to do that very few other companies do is if it gets to that point where you've used this thing the whole season, you're A guide. You've been out there and you've worn this thing out or you're a hunter that's just used it a bunch. You've done some sharpening in the field, but you don't feel like you did a great job and you want to get it back to. Fresh out of the box.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You mail it to us. We sharpen it the day we get it and ship it back that day at latest the next day. That's for free.

[A]

Yeah. When we were downstairs, I saw something that came in two hours earlier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're already sharp and on their way back out.

[B]

Yeah. It's got a generations form we ask people to fill out. That's just so we make sure we get your knife back to you. And people will write on there like, hey, I've got a screw loose on my sheath or I lost a screw or, you know, if there's an issue, warranty kind of issue. You saw downstairs, Aiden just noticed that the sheath was kind of loose and he just replaced it with a brand new sheath.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

You know, we could tell people like, oh yeah, buy another one online, but you spent a fair amount of money on this knife. And again, we want you to use this knife for the rest of your hunting career, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the thing is we get it back, we'll put it on our belt grinder, we'll resharpen it. I would rather come 20, 26 and you're getting ready to go hunting with your buddies and you look at your gear and you're like that MKC knife. Man, that thing was great a couple years ago, but it's dull. I'm just going to grab this other blade over here, you know, whatever. And you leave this knife at home. I would rather sharpen this knife for you for free and have you be like that thing, smoking sharp in case he's got it good to go. I'm going to throw up my pack and go with it. You know, school, I want this thing being used forever because you're also going to tell your buddies about that. You know, that like I sent this knife and it was back in five days. It was in perfect shape.

[A]

That's cool. Yeah.

[B]

So I encourage people to try to learn. You know, you think about the old days, how many people's grandpa just sat around sharpening a knife at night.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I mean, they didn't have Instagram.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they weren't on YouTube, you know, sitting around by the fire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sharpening their knife.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You know, there's just a lot less of that that happens. But why, why not, why not sit around your dinner table at night and practice sharpening?

[A]

You know, I go over to my father in law's house and it's like there's the soap by the sink and then four different knife sharpeners. Right. So it's just like. You're like, oh, yeah, that's where it should be. Just like, it's just like washing dishes. You're like, all right, yeah, there it is. And it's just easy and it's, it's out.

[B]

Yeah. And there's all kinds of stuff like, like I was saying, oil, water, diamond. I don't. It doesn't matter. It's more about your grit and how you use it. So I don't necessarily, you know, I don't care if it's a water and oil stone. Like, I'm not going to tell you one's better or not. Like just, just get a good stone.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah. That's awesome. The other thing I'd like to talk about too is so we. I got to help in the development process of this Elkhorn Skinner. And for me you were like, well, what do you like? And so I thought I want to, I want a knife that's built for the way that I handle a knife.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think the ergonomic is, you know, important to me, especially to. Not just for hunting, but for guiding, because I'll do. The way I use knives is like just they're constantly being used. It might be, you know, if you're guiding or whatever, it might be a couple elk or multiple animals in a week. It generally isn't like a lot of time to wash it or whatever. It goes back in the thing dirty. It's like, it's always dirty. It's always being used. But also too like, you develop a way of doing something and you can do it fast and efficient if it's, if everything kind of flows right. Every time I get a new knife, it's always like when you're used to doing something over and over and over and then you get a new knife, the blade might be longer or whatever and you just. Your body's trained to do it one way and then you kind of adjust and then you get used to that knife and then you switch a knife and it's. You're like, okay, now I got to pay more attention. Slow down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The way that I like to use a knife, I like a little bit shorter blade. I like bigger belly on it. You know, you're skinning the whole animal. So I want it to be good. Like, you can't break an animal down. And I don't do a lot of. I do every once in a while, some gutting, mostly quartering. It's. It's skinning an animal and then cutting off the quarters. You know, cutting off the legs and the head, the jaw.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Packing it out, sometimes boning it out. I like to. The way that I hold and I. When I pick up a knife, there's a couple. I'll hold it by the handle. I generally would have maybe my thumb on the back for working if you're really pushing hard. Yeah. When I'm skinning or cutting, I like to even have my finger toward the end of the blade and just kind of indexing it. So it's almost just like I'm drawing with my finger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I know exactly where the blade is. A lot of it, too, is a backcountry safety thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of being like. I like to have control over it. I kind of choke up on the blade. You know, it's. It's rested between my. I guess my knuckle and my thumb.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of my second finger. Pinch it. Yeah. Because what I. Well, now I've got. I've had wrist surgery, but. Yeah. Like, I used to get. You'd get. You do so many. So much cutting, and you get, like, almost a. Like a charlie horse. And where your hand, like, lock. Your hand locks up. Yeah. And other guides. I know. It's like. Yep. Oh, you got the. You got the lock hand today. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like it because you're.

[B]

You're also grabbing the hide.

[A]

Yeah. Grabbing it, pinching, pulling it. So much work. You're working your hands a lot. And so having something that's comfortable and, like, you just fits. And so that was one of the things that we talked about is, you know, a handle design that just really fit the hand. We had I don't know how many iterations of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Put this in your hand. That's a little long. Some were only a little bit different. Like, little bit different shape.

[B]

And there's, you know, you were talking about choking up on a knife. I'm the same way. And also for people who do gut, like, it's really easy with this to be able to have the tip of your finger literally over the point of that knife, where when you do get up under that hide, your finger can ride right on the guts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that edge or the. The hide is riding Right up over the belly of this knife as you're going up that cavity, you know, and then you start getting around the diaphragm. You don't want to be chopping up tenderloins and getting up into the back straps and all that stuff. So to be able to, like you said, have control over where the tip of that is. Your. Your left hand's in there feeling around and your right hand's in here doing this work. I've always been a proponent, and if you look at some of our other knives in our line, you know, I came out with the Blackfoot and then the Speedgoat, we have the Jackstone, we have the Mini Speed. All these other knives are all small. Like I'm, I'm a big fan of smaller knives on big game animals. When I get up inside the cavity, having a 5 or 6 inch blade, like whipping around up in there and you can't see you got a headlamp on, you're up underneath the rib cage trying. It just gets crazy. But the ergonomic part of it, that's the other thing that I was seeing before I started mkc. I would go into stores, Mind you, I'm a, I'm a master bladesmith and I hunt and I go into stores and look at the knives I was seen on the shelf and you could tell that someone did not design that. That was a hunter.

[A]

Yo. Yeah, the, the.

[B]

And also this is hard to explain. And you saw some of it with like the tool passes. We, we actually took some video and maybe, maybe you guys can throw this over the top. But of the tool passes going back and forth across over the handle from the mill.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You saw how many passes? Right. And he had it in fast forward. It was going over there a ton of times. From a production shear making money standpoint, we would be way better off. Face this handle off and run like a, you know, dovetail cutter or something around the edge real quick. Little bevel around the edge and out that goes. Right. That handle would be made in 20, 30 seconds. Right. But to have the ergonomics of this, this knife feels like I custom grounded on a belt.

[A]

Yeah, Right.

[B]

Like these edges are broke over real rounded.

[A]

It feels like a stone that you picked up off the ocean. You like?

[B]

That's a.

[A]

Like you feel it. You like? Oh, it's like worries. You're like, oh, it feels very peaceful.

[B]

Yeah. And that's. And that's the thing is, is when you look at a lot of these factory knives, and I understand a bit of this as we get more and more into production of like, well, okay, if we can shave five seconds off of this, and let's just say we're going to make 50,000 of these. Right. That's. That's the conversations that happen in these big factories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, the CEOs like, cut five seconds off. Yeah. I don't care if it's got a little sharper edge on it. Like, who cares? Just go into some milk hunters. They don't care. Like, no.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I, I tried to come out with a knife company and with a production knife that felt like a custom knife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Maybe a guy can't necessarily afford to pay $1200 for a custom knife. If you buy this knife for $300, it's still a reasonable price. It's not cheap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you're gonna get a knife that actually feels like it was custom hand ground.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and it, like you said, the fatter palm swell part of this, it does fit right in your hand and it gives you enough to grab onto.

[A]

Yeah. And then a little bit of texture at the top here for your thumb or when you're working it. It's just like, you know, I mean, honestly, like, it is definitely the best knife I've ever used. But also it was designed for the way that I use a knife. And so I, for me, it's the best knife I've ever used. But I mean, I've had a lot of friends and stuff try it out and they're like, man, this thing feels good.

[B]

Well, that's great. That means a lot. Like, because you. There's those of us that just hunt a few times a year and then there's professionals. Right. Like the guiding that you've done. The most amazing users of knives I've gotten to watch, like Scott and Seth Perkins, the bearded butchers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they butcher cattle for a living. And buffalo. Right. So like, like you said when you change knives and how you kind of have to adjust and slow down for a second, be like, okay, this is a little different. When you watch a professional use a knife, it's like a guitarist. Right. You hand them a different guitar, they can play it. But it's not like the old guitar they've been playing forever.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And guides are the same way. Like when you have, when you're up in there and it's dark and it's cold and your client's cold and they want to get off the mountain. Like you're trying to haul ass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you need something in Your hand that you feel like you have control over that. You know, when I make this motion, my. It's not going to be jabbing me in the other hand.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. That. It was funny because, like, when I started guiding, you know, guys would be like. I'd be like, you know, I. I just want to do it because if somebody's there and in there, I just. I've done so many. So many animals that I just know exactly where my hands are and where the. And I just go. Some guy be like, I want you to use my knife.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I do it, I start doing it, I cut myself every damn time. Like, you know what? I'll use my knife. We'll use that later at camp. We'll cut up some steak.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or something. Because there's just not the time for me to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, just. I don't need to cut myself for no reason.

[B]

Like, yeah, we have 45 minutes of daylight left.

[A]

We're just gonna cook on this thing. Well, I'll hand you quarters. You get them in, the bag will fly.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, we also put a thong hole in here. So some. Some people like to put a little piece of paracord or something through there, sometimes lash it to their gear and whatnot, or put it around their wrist. I don't personally necessarily do that, but there are people that like to do that. Part of the reason that I don't necessarily need to do that, and I think this is over or underestimated and overlooked, is the sheath. Right. So I. I would walk into Sportsman's warehouse and be like, all right, maybe that knife there looks pretty good. Let me see that knife. All right, show me the sheath. And they're like, oh, okay. And they, like, go dig around, they find the sheath for it, and they bring it out, and they give you this piece of sheath where it's, like, falling out. Like, clearly, this is not going to be safe and secure. Or you're jabbing the knife through the sheath. You're like, well, I don't want to put this in my pack. If I fall, this thing's going to jab through me into my rib cage. Right. I can't wear it on pack because it's going to fall out, or it's got all these snaps all over it. Right. And so one thing that I wanted to do when we started this company is like, I want people to be able to carry their knife in an accessible area. Now, you can debate where that is. You know, back in the old days, we carried Rangefinders on our belt. We carried knives on our belt. Then these packs came along with, you know, big hip waist bands or whatever, you know, and I started developing this where we carry these actually on our pack strap. I know that makes a lot of people nervous because they think they're going to lose their knife. I've had a few people lose knives that way. And when they email us, but I just send them a new knife.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but this knife sheath allows you to clip this thing over your pack, over your belt, anywhere you want it to go. The clip turns 90, so you can carry it horizontal, vertical. You can switch to the other side for left handed, right handed. You can take the clip off and tuck it in your bino harness pouch. The, the point is, is hunters are a lot like guys in the military. They will, like, redo their gear, guys will modify their gear, they'll figure out different ways to carry stuff. It's about as interchangeable as you can get. But what's most important is that it snaps into place and it's actually got a retention screw that you can suck that thing down where you damn near can't get it out.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, but I would rather have a guy have a knife available. You want to stop and open a bag of jerky, you want to do a little tiny task. But most importantly is when you grab your pack and it's on your pack, you know you have it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, there's very few pieces of gear that you. That, that will stop a hunt in its tracks. If you forget your gun at home or your knife, you. You shoot an elk and you don't have a knife, you're just straight up screwed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You forget your rain gear, you'd be all right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It might be cold.

[A]

Yeah. My brother had this instance where it was like, general area. I don't know, I don't think it was opening day. But this guy that he hears shots, and here comes the herd over the ridge and there's a bowl, completely untouched snow on the ground. And, you know, he didn't know what was going on or whatever. You know, somebody shot elk and now the elk are running toward him, and he shoots it and dumps this bull and he gets to the bowl and this guy comes up like, oh, you know, and my brother's like, oh, I just shot this bull. He's like, ah, I didn't know if I hit it or. Or not, you know, but he goes and looks. My brother's like, hey, you know what? Go. And if you see blood or whatever. You can have the bowl and there was no blood. They both go investigate. And so, you know, my brother essentially shot this guy's elk. My brother goes to take car. The guy starts walking away, and he goes, oh, I forgot my knife. Like, hey, man, I hate to do this to you, but can I borrow your knife? Really? Yeah. Yeah. He forgot his knife, shoots a guy's elk, and then has to go borrow his knife.

[B]

Oh, my God. Imagine I shot your elk, and I'm gonna doll up your knife for you.

[A]

Exactly. The guy was pretty good about it, but I like as anybody would, but.

[B]

Well, if. If your knife's buried in your pack, you know, you. You know, it's. It's easy to grab your knife out of your pack and do something. Or maybe you go do some bird hunting or whatever, and you grab your knife out of your pack and then you forget to put it back in. It's like, I do like having it attached to the pack strap, you know, but everybody's a little bit different. I don't care. I just. I want you to have options with a sheath. I think a sheath is just as important as the dang knife. Yeah, you got to be able to carry it and carry it safely.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

So we sell leather sheaths and stuff like that on our website, but this is Kydex. Like, don't leave it on the dash your truck in Nevada. Like, it's gonna melt. But, yeah, you know, this stuff you can wash out. It's impervious to hot, cold, or not hot, but the cold and all that same thing with, like, this is G10 on the handle. You know, I would love to use custom wood, like an iron wood or something on every knife we make. Would be really neat. But you want to talk about. This material is impervious to hot, cold blood, you know, water, whatever. Like, it's just absolutely bulletproof. I made a lot of custom knives out of wood, you know, or fossil ivory or different things. But, man, they get. They get hot or cold or whatever. That natural material tends to expand and contract. Crack. You know, this is a production knife. This thing is meant to absolutely be a tool.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, like, I want guides to take this stuff and abuse the hell out of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but what's cool is, like, you can't abuse this thing bad enough to where when you send it back, we can't get it sharp again and get it right back to you.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

Like, it's made to use.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Awesome. Well, man, I really appreciate the time. I. There's definitely a lot of stuff that I've learned from you about knives. And even going through this process of. Oh, I didn't even. There was one of the prototypes had the little.

[B]

I can't remember, sharpening choil.

[A]

Yeah. And I. I was like, I've had knives with that. And I was like, I don't even know what that's for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you. You told me, and I was like, okay, it makes sense. But I was like, not for. Not for what I like to do.

[B]

You know, Some guys like it, but then the next guy doesn't like it because, like, you can get a little.

[A]

Hide or catches the hide sometimes. Yeah. But I mean, I understand now. I'm like, oh, I never even knew what that was for. Never even paid attention to it.

[B]

You know, and this is why knives are cool. And it's the same with guns and stuff. Is like, what's your favorite knife? Isn't necessarily exactly the next guy's favorite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's why we have lots of different styles of knives. You know, there's going to be guys out there that are say, like, oh, I want more of a tip on my blade. What's so cool about this knife? And we should say. We haven't really said, but, like, this is the Remy Warren edition knife for Montana Knife Company. It's called the Elkhorn. If you look at this Elkhorn knife, it is so much different than all of our other knives. Like, all of other knives have a lot more of a point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, a lot more tip on it. We needed. And we have some larger Skinners like our stonewall knife, but it's a bigger blade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is like that kind of shorter, stubbier skinning knife that I think is absolutely badass. And I. And I told you this downstairs. Sometimes when you design something, you sometimes can be really in love with it when it's drawn on paper. And by the time you get to the end of the project and it's like, made into a knife you're holding. This is just experience from the custom knife making.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can kind of tend to fall out of love as the process goes along. Like, man, this is not exactly how I thought it was gonna look in my head. And then you can have where, like, you see the design, you're like, yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'll try it. And you start making it. And initially when we drew this one up, I was like, yeah, I'm not sure. Like, it's a Little shorter. It's a little wide. Like, is that too wide? And by the time we got done with it, I'm like, oh, my God, this is a badass little knife. Like. Like, legitimately. And I. I'm the same way. I pinch this thing just like you do, and I always. Almost always ride my finger on the top of this blade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't want three more inches of blade out past my finger.

[A]

No, I don't either.

[B]

So. But I. I really do appreciate. You know, it's an absolute honor working with you on this project. We want badass people helping advise us on what we're doing and come up with new models and whether it's on the military side with some of the veterans. But in a hunting space, you want to talk about a veteran hunter and a. And a professional guide means a lot that you were willing to kind of take this project on with us.

[A]

So I appreciate it, and thank you guys so much for working with me on it and, you know, just being like, yeah, what do you think about this? And what do you think about that? And it just. It's awesome to then get it in my hands and be like, okay, let's try it. You go, wow. It actually, like, out of any knife I've ever used, it just was, like, instantly for me, just is like a match made. I was like, oh, yeah, this is the knife. This is a knife for me. This is perfect, you know?

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

It was crazy how fast I was like, okay. Just so natural. So thank you guys so much for doing this. If you guys are. If. For those listening are like, I. I want to get one of these. There's gonna be a release tonight for the people that listen to this podcast when it comes out, which is a lot of them. Thursday, there will be Montana knife companies doing a drop, so you can go and get one. Once they're gone, they're gone. So, you know, you have to look for maybe a drop in the future. Whatever. Ha. Whatever happens. But, you know, there's. There's only a limit. You know, these are. It's not like they're made in China and there's a billion of them.

[B]

Yeah, that's. People beat us up a little bit on, like, how fast we sell out. And they're like, oh, it's a. You guys, would you drop nine? And it's like, well, you saw downstairs how many we're working on right now. Like, you saw it personally with your own eyes. Like, there's a lot of knives. However, it's. These are American Made fully. And I should say that like 100American made downstairs here in Frenchtown, Montana, by American workers. You know, we aren't punching these things out by the tens of thousands. If they do sell out pretty fast, like, we will absolutely run more of them, but it's going to be several months. Yeah. So, you know, I would definitely, definitely advise people try to get on and get one be on their right at 7:00 Mountain Time. They do go fast. I, I think this thing's going to go crazy fast just because I think it's so different than what we've had. Yeah, it'll be cool. I guess. If we don't sell any, then we probably won't do another run.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But.

[A]

Well, if you don't sell any, I'll buy all of them. These are great.

[B]

Got to get you to sign that in the contract. No, no, they're. They're gonna go fast. And like you say, we, we will do more, but it's gonna take some time. Yeah. These don't just pop out. And also, this is. You actually have your own colorway here. This gray and black. Did you say this match like one of your hunt Right?

[A]

Yeah, it matches our live Wild Weatherby rifles. So I like it. The two colors that I, I like to wear a lot as well. So it's gray and black and black and gray or what have you. Yeah, I like it. So if you guys are interested, make sure you guys are signed up for. Well, my email list. Because then you know about some of the stuff that we're doing. The Montana knife company email us because you guys announce your drops and things on there. So if you, if you're listening to this podcast, you go on and like, oh, there aren't any left. Well, make sure you at least sign up and notified so next time something's available or maybe a different Montana knife that gets dropped, you can jump on and be on there on time. You know, I've talked to a lot of people and they're like, oh, man, I was listening to the podcast. I really wanted those knives. And then just knowing about the drop being on there. Ready? You'll probably get one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you aren't, if you're like, hey, it's two weeks later and you're like, dang, I really want that knife. It's probably too late. And you got to wait for the next time that they're available or whatever.

[B]

Sign up. Sign up for our list or your list, because we will whenever it is that we can get another run done. That's the best way to find out. Especially with kind of the way social media is. It's really easy for us to make posts for you to make posts and people just not to see it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if you're listening to this podcast and these knives have already come and come and gone, just sign up for the list and we will 100% be doing more of them and you'll, you'll get an email about it.

[A]

Awesome. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that podcast. I know it was awesome being able to sit down with Josh and just really dive into what goes into a knife if you think about knives. And that's kind of the end process. Well, it's the process before packing out. Another awesome company we work with, Stone Glacier has the best packs in my opinion for getting that meat from the mountain after, you know, quartering it out back to camp. They're incredible for hunting and they're designed to carry a lot of weight. I mean, I've been this season guiding and carrying elk out. I've already got two elk in my pack in within this last week. And just having a quality pack where you can carry that weight and distribute it. Right. Makes a big difference. You know, if you're thinking about a larger pack, you're going elk hunting. A couple of my favorites, the Skytallus 6900. So 6900 cubic inches. It's awesome for all western big game hunts if you're going to potentially do multi day hunts. I've taken that pack to Alaska. This is the one that I use on majority of my hunts. If I'm not needing a big pack, I can just shrink it down. And then when I need that extra room for packing out, I can expand it and carry out quarters. And I had a front quarter, a hindquarter and all my gear plus some other loose meat in there opening day. So, you know, definitely enough room in that if you want to go a little bit bigger. There's The Sky Guide 7900 also another really good choice. Just two awesome packs for western big game hunting. As always, you guys can use code livewild and get free shipping on that. And I also sell a lot of these Stone Glacier products on my website. Remy warren.com you can check it out. So until next week, we're just gonna say stay sharp. Catch you guys.