← Live Wild with Remi Warren
Live Wild with Remi Warren
Ep. 170 | Rules of the Road top 11 tips for 4x4 driving
00:52:32
Remi goes over his top 11 tips for 4x4 driving
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Remy Warren
Foreign I'm Remy Warren and I've lived my life in the wild as a professional guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days perfecting my craft. I want to give that knowledge to you. In this podcast we relive some of my past adventures as I give you practical hunting tips to make you more successful. Whether you're just getting started or a lifelong hunter, this podcast will bring you along on the hunt and teach you how to live wild. This podcast is brought to you by Mountain Tough and Yeti. A lot of the tactics I talk about here require you to be in top physical shape. So I partnered with Mountain Tough to help get you ready for the mountain with their science based hunter specific training app. You'll get in shape and mentally tough able to tackle any hunt. Because we really believe this will help you be more successful. As a listener to this podcast, we're giving you six free weeks to get you started. Just use code livewild Foreign welcome back to Live Wild podcast everyone. This week we're going to talk four wheel drive driving. Now if you plan on doing any serious western big game hunt, you're going to find yourself in a dirt road driving situation. And not all dirt roads are created equal. Now, while some of us have grown up putting as many miles on the dirt as a pavement, for many people this might be a new endeavor. So this week we're going to dive into the drive, getting you to your hunting spot and back with a few simple, simple off road rules that all hunters should know. We're going to look at my top 11 rules of the dirt road and share some fun stories along the way. So let's drive in to some dirt road travel. I think first off, what we need to clarify before we go any further is just what is off roading or off road driving. And while it sounds like you're just driving wherever you want, that's not the case. In fact, I always stay on designated roads and trails. I never or veer off of those. If I need to go somewhere off the trail, I walk. Now, off roading just means off the pavement. So it could be a gravel road, it could be a two track, it could be various other kinds of driving roads and trails. Now across the west, these roads are not all created equal. Growing up in the state of Nevada, we have many designated highways that are 4x4 high clearance, impassable. A lot of times a year, rough roads, it's like somebody just started driving this way. It created a road and now it's become a corridor to get into somewhere across the West. There's all different kinds of roads and conditions that you're going on. When you're just looking at a map, you might not know what kind of road that is. Like I was telling, sharing the story of a hunt from last week. You know, I, I ended up in a jeep trail that was like a designated jeep trail. I think it was one of those Rubicon style trails where, you know, we were getting out, stacking four, five, six, seven rocks, having somebody guide, place tires. It was like a extremely rough and tumble road just to get, get out of there. And you know, had I been in a different truck, I probably would have turned around. But sometimes I like to see what, see what I, the vehicle can handle. But like, honestly, you encounter a lot of rough road driving conditions on a majority of hunts across the West. Now there's a lot of places that will hunt. And the majority of the roads are like gravel roads, semi maintained, I would say, like they aren't plowed or anything, but they go up the mountain. Like in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, they go up the mountain. They're gravel, they're old logging roads. They're fairly decent shape, but they get ice on them, they get snow on them. You know, when you're during hunting season, a lot of treacherous road conditions. You're up in the mountains and there's no one around, no help. And they often lead to steep slopes and other things. So you could get yourself in trouble that way. There's a lot of roads that are on the map. You say, oh, this looks like I can get here. And it starts to get more narrow and more treacherous, more washouts and other things. And it can be dangerous to drive on if you don't know what you're doing. And so I have kind of these rules that I've grown up with. And as somebody that spent as many miles probably driving off road as I have on road, which is a lot of miles getting to and from hunts and then, you know, through guiding and hunting, Just being on various dirt roads across the west encountered a lot of like, interesting situations and some good ones, some bad ones. I've done a lot of dumb stuff and try to do mostly smart stuff. A lot of these things were stuff like I learned to drive on a dirt road, I learned to drive off roading. And it was like something that we grew up doing with my dad. We always had, you know, he always built up off road vehicles. Whether it was a, a jeep or a truck of some kind or a Land Cruiser. It was always a lot of fun. And, and you know, for a lot of that we would be going out into the middle of nowhere in Nevada, in thousands of miles of roads where you probably will not see another human. And if you get stuck or something happens, you're on your own. This was pre cell phones and emergency beacons and all that stuff like you told someone where you're going to come back and if you got stuck or whatever, you might be stuck there for a very, very long time or have a very long walk out to somewhere else. So, you know, do. Making the smart move and having ways to get out was always just standard issue. And one of the things that I've noticed a lot lately over say the past five to 10 years is an increase in people that find themselves in really bad situations. I've pulled out more people in the last five years than I think I have in the previous 15 in a lot of different situations or put themselves in a bad driving situation. And it's just like I happen to come across and be able to help them out, which is awesome. But I think that a lot of it comes down to maybe people not knowing a lot about off road driving. So I think it's a really important tip and tactic because it's going to get you to your hunting spot safe. There's a few things that you should think about and some of this stuff people just don't know, a lot of it is like, well, why are you here? And they go, oh well, I saw this on the map, this road and I, you know, they just didn't have like a perception of what they could get out of and what their vehicle could do or, or even sometimes just the function of their vehicle. Like they just haven't spent a lot of time in four wheel drive in icy snowy conditions on mountains. And it makes a big difference. So we're going to kind of dive into these just things that I think about when I'm driving. There are things that were taught to me from a very early age, a lot of them and then a lot of them are just things that I've learned kind of along the way. And I think that you'll find a major theme in here. And the major theme is don't get yourself into a position where you have to do a recovery. And that's the major theme. So we're going to go through this list that I set up and I'll tell a few stories along the way. But I just thought it'd be good to kind of go over this and it's good Stuff for everyone to hear. Well, you've been doing this your whole life or just getting started. It's some good things to think about. The first rule and one that I, you know, remember my dad saying, ever since I was old enough to go out hunting with him, go, don't go down what you haven't been up. Now let me explain that. It's not like don't go down any road, right? But if you, if there's a road and the conditions are like not ideal, let's say it's covered in snow, there's like wet roads, mud, it's super steep, with like pretty good grade and loose gravel which you're going to encounter in a lot of, you know, driving conditions. And these are, these are roads that might be on a map. These are roads that get to another area, what have you. So don't go down. What you haven't been up is if there's, if you don't know, like let's say there's an area where you go, okay, you encounter something that's very steep and potentially muddy, slick, snowy, whatever, or like loose gravel. You can, you can look down, you go, this is real steep and you see where tires have spun out, where people have dug in and you think to yourself, well, this might be something that I would struggle getting back up. Now obviously you have to be in a vehicle that has four wheel drive. You know, your, your type of vehicle can depend on, you know, maybe where you can go and where you can't go. If you're in a full size pickup and you come to this steep hill and it's like got a little bit of snow on it or it wet and maybe a little soft. Probably shouldn't go down it if your only way back out is you have to go back up it because you can always go down something. You can't always get back up something. And that's where I see most people getting stuck lately is like going down something where, I mean even last year there's a spot where I parked, there's a new area I hadn't been, it was two years ago. I parked spot that I hadn't been. I was like, this is a steep spot. I was in a, I think I was in a jeep, which I can like I've got it set up with winches and everything. I like to hunt out of side by sides if given the option because they're a little bit lighter and I can get more places. Like you also don't beat up truck as much or your vehicle as much. But the spot was steep. It was like there'd been snow and it melted off. But it was kind of like muddy, slick. And I parked at the top because I didn't know I'd never been the other way. And it turns out that this. This road made a loop, so I probably could have got out. But anyways, it doesn't matter. The. There were some other people that drove past where I was and went down it and unfortunately got stuck. And it was like they. They were able, you know, I. I kind of gave them the recommendation of waiting till it freezes to get back out, in which case. Oh, I guess that's. I could. Should probably should have put that as one of the tips. But we'll talk about it now. It doesn't even have to be a. You know, like it was one of those situations where had somebody not been there, like, they probably would have kept attempting it, buried themselves, got stuck, or put themselves in dangerous situation where their vehicle would have slid sideways, not been able to get out. Now in this particular time of year is like the sun warmed it up, made it slick, and then after a couple hours of dark, it'll freeze again. And then it gives them a little bit more traction. They could get out. That's one thing to think about. Like, if you're in an area where it's cold at night, you go in in the morning, right? It's fine. You try to leave midday and you're just getting buried. Sometimes you just have to wait, be patient, let it freeze back up, and then drive out like it's not worth, you know, getting stuck. But don't go down. What you haven't been up is for those roads where you don't know where you're like, if you can get out that way, if you could just like keep going down and get out, great. If that road connects and there's no washes or whatever, awesome. But if it's something that you aren't sure you like, in order to get out, you have to go back up this. And it might be difficult to go back up. Don't do it. It's a sure way to get yourself stuck. Rule number two, when you're driving off road, keep your thumbs out. You don't grip the steering wheel. And this is one that I think a lot of people maybe don't know. But the reason for this is, like, as you're going over, whether it's dry ground or a little bit loose, like most of this stuff is, it happens in kind of bad road conditions. Where it's a little bit muddy, a little bit icy, a little bit of snow, or maybe you're going fast or whatever. But it doesn't always have to be that this kind of thing generally happens, like if you're going over rocks or whatever. And so what will happen is someone will be gripping the steering wheel. You'll go over a rock, and what it'll do is it'll actually. The force of the rock will like slide your tires in other way. So maybe you're sliding off something. You slide into a wash real quick and it puts your tire in there and then yanks the tire one direction. Because the speed and force of the vehicle is moving stronger than your steering wheel. So your steering wheel controls which way the tire moves. But a force greater than the steering wheel pushes the tire in one way, which also counteracts the direction of the steering wheel. If you're gripping the steering wheel in an off road position tight, what will happen is that steering wheel, when it hits that with the tire will like bounce over, like whip the steering wheel real hard. And it can do it like break your wrist, can break your thumb. And it hurts pretty bad if you don't do it. If you have your thumbs out, you actually aren't gripping the steering wheel. So when it rips out, it just slides through your hand. And so when I'm driving off road, my, I'm never gripping the steering wheel. My thumbs are always out. My dad taught me that. It was like the first thing he taught me when I started driving because we started driving off her, he's like, thumbs out. You know, it's like, don't grab the steering wheel. And I've always driven like that. But you kind of wonder like, is that a real thing? And then my buddy Josh, which, you know, he, he knows and he, he's like, his dad taught him the same way. And then he was driving one day, happened to be gripping the steering wheel, whipped over and, and smashed his thumb. So it does happen like it was. It was good to know that it does happen. And I've had it where my thumbs have been out and that's happened. And it like it torques your wrist. But I was thinking like, man, if I was, if my thumb was in there and that part of the steering wheel ripped over, man, that would have been like pretty bad because you, your grip cannot hold on. And it happens so fast. Like I've had the steering wheel whip over like that before. It happened so fast that like, there's not even time to think or React, it just happens. So when you're driving off road, keep your thumbs out. Number three. And this one maybe I'll get a little bit of, who knows some of this stuff. These are like my rules, right? But this is, this has served me really well in the past. Well, all these rules have served me really well in the past. Especially it's like going into places you might be in like a lot of snow conditions or going up a hill or whatever it is, engage your four wheel drive before you need it. Okay. And this is one where you see both sides of it and what I mean not just your four high or four low. Like whatever you think you might need to get to where you're going, engage it before you get there. Okay. So if I'm going up like a really steep hill and it looks like I'm it's probably going to slip a little bit. I'm going to put it in four low before I go up it. If I'm driving around and it's like adverse conditions, wet, whatever, maybe a little bit of snow on the ground, I'm putting in my four wheel drive. I'm just going up a dry dirt hill and it's not like, and it's fairly steep but you know, it's like I probably make it up in two wheel drive. I'm still engaging my four wheel drive. And here's the reason for that, is like do what you need to do before you need it. The whole plan is to not put yourself in a position where you get stuck. Now I hear other people like oh well if I put it in four low before I go up there and then I get stuck, then I have nothing else to help get me out. You shouldn't get yourself in a position to where you need something to get you out. You're going to get stuck at multiple points in your life. But the goal is to not get stuck. So use what you need before because you're losing momentum and you're increasing the opportunity for your tires to bury in and get stuck. I mean there's so many times where like I'll be going to someone and maybe we're going up a, I don't know, like this happened. I don't know. Just going up like a dirt road, it's a little bit muddy or loose or whatever and it's like I've got my four wheel drive engaged. Like I'm driving right, like my entire. And we'll talk about it later but like I try not to dig in and then you might be going with someone or see someone, it's like, yeah, I made it to the top without my four wheel drive. Like this vehicle is great. And I'm like, yeah, you made it, but you also like tore up the track dug in so much. Like you've got a lot of wear on your tires because it kept slipping and grinding on the rocks. And yeah, we both got to the same place, but one did it without tearing up the road or like doing unnecessary wear to their tires. And just by engaging the four wheel drive, you're off road, you're going up a steep hill. Engage the four wheel drive before you need it. I see it all the time, like tires spinning out and then something going, oh crap. Okay now, now I start to, I'm, I'm not gaining traction now I'll kick the four wheel drive on. Before you get into that position, you should have it on and like drive whatever you're going to think you need if you got stuck to get out. Use that for the road ahead. So I primarily am driving in like, like super basic level driving in four high, like pretty much most of the day. I mean if it's like a gravel road, yeah, you can be in whatever, it doesn't matter. It's like practically like driving on pavement. But when we're going like off road in like more rough roads, I'm generally in four high. And then when I'm climbing or descending, I'm in four low. And then also when you're going downhill, choosing the right gear, so like shifting down, putting it in four low, going slow, downhill, so you don't get out of control. It's whether it's going uphill or downhill. So it's like choosing the right gear as well. You don't want to be riding your brakes all the way down the mountain, especially if it's snowy or icy. The reason that people go off the road, get out, out of sorts, whatever, is because they're either going too fast and you can go pretty fast in ice and snow and be fine. It's when you need to stop that you have the problem. So getting in the right gear before you get into those situations is key. Like being able to power out of a situation as opposed to breaking into a situation is also a key. So let's say we're going downhill and it's like, man, this is steep and it's a little bit of snow. Well, I'm probably gonna put it into a lower gear and then I know that I'm gonna be like controlling my descent and let's say something happened where I start to slide a little bit, but I could use a little bit of power to kind of gas out of it as opposed to hit the brake and slide into it, which is something to think about. Now, number four, this happens on like, more modern vehicles. Like, I've got a F150 and man, that thing, like, it's terrible in the snow, to be honest. And I think like most trucks are because the weight distribution, you've got this long bed, like longer bed trucks and lighter trucks can be pretty bad because you've got this heavy, semi heavy motor engine. And then you've got like all this space between the front and the back and it's the bed of the truck which doesn't have as much weight. Like older trucks actually, that are actually made out of metal. They. They're way better in the snow because they just have more weight. That's. I feel like it's balanced a little bit better. One thing that you can always do is add like weight to your vehicle. So like, I mean, like back in the day, we used to like load like hay bales up in the back of the truck or guys will drive around with their four wheelers in the back of the truck and actually helps on some of those snowy, icy roads, like better center of gravity. But either way, almost all new vehicles have this thing where it's the traction control and it's kind of this. You put it in four, you put it in four high, and it's got like this automatic, you know, like posi track thing going on where it prevents you from slipping in the ice. So if you're like driving fast on the freeway, you start to slip, sends the power to that and then gives you better traction. Well, when you're in the snow and you're going like on like say gravel road, dirt road or whatever, oftentimes that just sends the power to the one that's slipping and you get buried real quick. So the first thing I do, like, if there's snow, just turn off the traction control. It's like a sure way to get stuck. Almost every modern vehicle now, when you put it in four high, automatically engages the traction control. When you put it in four low, the traction control automatically turns off. But if I'm driving in four high, there's like snow on the ground or like deep snow, let's say a couple inches. I'm turning off the traction control because it's going to be the thing that gets me stuck. It's going to be the thing that bogs me down real quick. Now if it's icy or whatever, you can leave it on, it's great. Like in the ice it works pretty well. But when it comes to snow or like mud or anything like that, I see a ton of people. It's like they're in four wheel drive, they hit the four wheel drive button, they're going up the hill and then they just get buried or they are going on a road and they just like get buried in the snow. And then they now have to like they get pulled off the road or whatever, get stuck and now they're in a stuck situation. All because of the stupid traction control. Essentially does it to them. You know, every vehicle is different. One thing you should know is like whatever your vehicle is, know what the four wheel drive capabilities are for it, know if it has locking differentials, know what kind of the features of vehicle. This traction control thing. Like I admittedly when I got a new vehicle because like I'd always had an older vehicle, is pretty self explanatory. And then I got like a new vehicle and I think it was the first weekend I went out, I just got stuck in the, in the dumbest spot. Like there was a little bit of snow and I just got buried. And I didn't figure it out. And it wasn't until somebody told me about the traction control thing that I was like, oh man. And then I, I know a lot of guys, like friends of mine that have had the similar experiences where it's like attraction control in the snow just screws them over. So something to know if like a lot of people probably don't know that. Something to think about. Number five kind of goes on the same vein of like we aren't, we're trying not to get stuck, trying not to get into a bad position. Hunting the west, like especially the mountain west. So like mountains in Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington even. There's a lot of logging activity. And those logging roads go up these giant mountains and they're pretty good roads until it gets like ice and snow and thousands of hunters driving over it. And then they get really, really shitty. And the bad part about these roads is most of the time they've got like a pretty decent slope where hopefully you don't go off the road, but they can be like pretty high up the mountain. And if you go off, you could put yourself into a really bad situation. You're gonna wanna have chains because when it's icy, you know, it's hard to stop when you're going downhill. And Some of these roads like you don't want to go off of them. Just like the four wheel drive before you need it, chain up before you need it. You know, I know a lot of like and I've been guilty of this where it's like I don't want to chain up and it's like. And then you chain up when you're already in trouble and at that point you have a lot less room to get out of something. I had a instance where I almost went off the road. This was probably shoot. It's probably a long time ago now filming an under armour hunt. I was taking buddy Jed, guided him on an elk hunt. This wasn't in the video but so it was a while ago. And we went up the mountain like and going uphill. Here's the thing, like the icy roads are more a pain going downhill because it's the stopping. Like as soon as you hit your brakes you start to slide whichever way the roads canted. And it was actually like dry going up and pretty dry. It wasn't crazy amount of snow around. Like the roads were pretty good. We parked, we drove up in the dark, parked hunt all day, came back, we're driving back down at night. Everything was fine. Well during the day some of the snow had melted and then it was really cold. So it must have just like created some black ice on this last little corner of the road. And I was, it was pretty dry up until that point, you know. And I knew like this particular spot was kind of crappy but I didn't really think about it to be honest. And we are going down the hill and it's one of those where it's. I don't know how far to the bottom but very far. And so we're going and I start to slide and it's not good and I, I'm like, I can't stop. And so I put the nose in toward the road and going to gas it's try to like gas my nose into the road. But the slope of the hill or the road is kind of going off camber to the downhill side and my back end starts to slide and my. I find I do end up stopping with my nose and I almost like am now I don't know how I did it but my nose is in the dirt and my back tires are like one of them's off the road and like I almost just went off the road. Luckily it would have been my back end that when I went off I think it probably would have high centered me but I would have been stuck. So I was like, now paralleling the road, which is not good. I ended up, like. And I didn't have anything with me really to help get me out. I had a toe strap. And so I ended up putting the toe strap onto the back tire, like looping it through the back tire. And then you. This was weird. But I. I ended up. How did I do that? And I tied it off to a tree up above. And then I used the toe strap by wrapping it around my tire while, like, giving it gas to pull me back onto the road. And then as I got back on the road, you know, the vehicle slid again. Then I, then I chained up. And had I chained up in the first place, I wouldn't have never been in that position. I don't know if it was one of those. Where I was like, should have chained up. Like, you're like, ah, it's just a little section and it's all good. But you don't want to be in those. Those predicaments because when you need to, like when you absolutely. When you start to go off a road and you absolutely need to chain up afterwards, you often have little room to work with. And it's like a big pain in the ass. So chain up before you need it. Like, don't put yourself in those situations. If you're going up a road and it's icy and whatever, throw the chains on. It saves you a lot more time than trying to get out or like, going off of a road and it doesn't have, you know, like, a lot of, A lot of people do pretty good, you know, but every once in a while, you know, things happen. And so it's just better to not put yourself in those situations and do it prior to needing it because it's always a lot harder to utilize something like that to get out. There's less room, there's less margin for error. There's like, more chance of getting yourself stuck. Number six. This you're going to encounter on nearly every hunt somewhere. And obviously, like, it's situational, but in a lot of, like, these situations, you're hunting late season, it's an icy road. You're on an icy road, you can stop, but, like, stopping can be kind of difficult sometimes. And so let's say you're coming up a road and there's another truck coming up. On busy general areas like this happens all day long. So you both stop in icy conditions or on, like, steep uphills, give the person below you the right of way. So the person that backs up should be the person that is uphill. And especially on the ice and snow. Like, it's so hard to back downhill, because as you go to try to stop, you start and it's dangerous for the person coming uphill. Like, it's easy to get. It's easier to drive uphill, so it's easier for you to back up. Also, like on real steep hills, sometimes when that person, like, stops, it's hard for them to get going again. But it's more like that backing up, like backing up a steep hill and backing up an icy road, like backing down an icy road. So backing down a steep hill and backing down an icy road is dangerous for that driver. So the person on the uphill side, it's easier for them to control and stop and drive backwards uphill than it is downhill. So that person should always give the right of way to the person downhill. Something good to remember if you've never been out wet. It's like, now, if there's like a good pull out, and it's like that guy's right by it, and it's good conditions. Yeah, just it's common sense stuff, like, whoever's got the best pullout goes. But generally the guy who is backing uphill should go give the person right away to the person downhill. And that's just a good courtesy thing to know out in the mountains. Number seven, you don't want to dig in. So if you're driving up, let's say a steep road or a road in the snow, the last thing you want to do is like, bury your tires and start digging in. One of the things you want to do is keep your tires moving. You don't want to give it too much gas. You don't want to give it too little gas. There's kind of that sweet spot. Another little trick and tactic is to keep your front tires moving. So back and forth, back and forth. Like, if you start to slow down, I start to rock the steering wheel so I can kind of make room for those tires so they don't dig in and bury themselves. So it's like they've got a little traction here, they've got a little traction there. I'm moving them left and right, left and right as I'm going up. And I'm continuing that kind of steady pressure. In some places, you have to give it more gas to get more speed, or you have to come into it with more speed. But as I'm climbing, like, I try to keep that. That speed consistent. Most People get stuck because they kind of didn't keep their tires moving and they kind of started to dig in. So they started to slow down. They kind of accelerated more without, I would say, like, the front tires, like shaking those front tires into a better position. You know, that's. That's the primary reason that, like, you get stuck, you're in conditions where you could sink, like muddy, snowy type conditions, or like steep hill, and then you start to dig in. Also kind of thinking about things like, one of the things that I use a lot is in. In icy conditions, this is a little bit different, kind of a different topic. But in icy road conditions, let's say we're going down an icy road or up an icy road. Your tires are on the ice. Maybe you don't have chains or what have you. It's like a little slick. You start to slip the snow on the left and the right. I consider safety snow. So, like, on icy roads, the snow is actually traction. And then on, like really snowy, deep roads, there might be traction where there's less snow or more rock and less snow. So kind of think about the things where you have traction and you don't have traction. There's parts of the road where it'll give you more traction. Like the middle might have some grass and other things that you can catch on to. So as you're going, and if you start to dig in, maybe you can dip into some of that better traction. Maybe it's like a little bit of a brush on the side of the road or whatever, and then you can get back out and continue as you go. So kind of keeping like in the vein of not digging in, you can figure out, okay, where am I gonna have better traction? Like, where is a better place to put my tires so I don't get stuck as I'm moving up this area. If I start to. In the middle of the road, where you see it's been rutted out, but I can kind of drive like over the rut on either side. That might be a better option where it's like, I'm not gonna dig in. I'm not gonna high center myself, but I can kind of place my tires on either side and get out. That's like a great strategy to use number eight, you know, in situations where there's a lot of rock and other things, like you. Maybe you're going down something and there's like a big drop or there's something like that. Have somebody hop out and use a spotter. We do this all the time. Like somebody jumps out and helps place those tires. You want to place your tires on something solid and maybe kind of figure out, you know, is my differential going to hit or is it going to drag on this particular rock or what have you have a spotter guide you in front. Make sure the spotter's in a. In a safe location. They kind of use, okay, yeah, this way, that way, come on and get over those obstacles. It takes a little bit of time to get out and have someone look, but it's not always the worst idea. And in some instances, it's the only way that you're actually going to get out of something without getting stuck. Often you don't want to put yourself into like in a full size pickup, you do not want to be into a position where you have to use a spotter. But there are like situations where my wife got her elk last year. We had, you know, it was a fairly rough road. Getting. There's a road, I mean, it's a travelable road, but there's like trees and other things and we have the elk on top. So it's like, okay, how are we going to get around this tree? Guide me so I can get as close as possible without even. Probably wouldn't have got stuck, but just like scratching up the vehicle. Use a spotter. Last year it's like got into a position and side by side, it was like, okay, we need to, we need to figure out if we can get through this before we actually try to get through it. And as we're going through it, a little bit of guidance. A couple years ago, I was in New Mexico and we were checking out, scouting out a new area. This is so dumb, but what, what do we do? I think we took a. My buddy's truck. What did we do? I think we had a side by side and we left it on the trailer to check it out in the truck. For some reason so dumb. I don't know why we did that, because we're thinking, oh, we'll just go this route. And ended up being like the shittiest road we've ever been on in a full size pickup. We should have turned around, but we were so committed and so far we just kept going. We ended up getting out of there. We burnt like a half a day of hunting or more. We had like a lot of pucker factor and we were doing a lot of like, you know, guiding the truck over using a spotter. And had we just kind of not had somebody get out and spot, we would have been stuck for sure. But you know, being able to place those tires, put rocks in like different holes and things to help get over it and build our way out. We were able to get out fine. Like the truck. The truck had no damage, no permanent damage. And we got out. It was a dumb way to do it. Like we should have. I think we just. That's what we didn't take the side by side because we're like, oh, we'll go check this area out, see what it looks like. And then kept getting deeper and deeper and we're like, oh, it connects out. We can get out this way. And kind of went down a road that we shouldn't have ever taken a vehicle like a full size vehicle down. But you know, you're looking at the map like, yeah, it's rated for high clearance 4x4 or whatever. It was a side by side road only that we figured out. I mean not legally. It was a, you know, full size vehicle road on the map is a full size vehicle road. And it was not a vehicle, a road for a full size vehicle. So, you know, that's like something you think about. You can get into a position, have somebody get out, look help guide you over stuff. Number nine. This was one that my dad like stresses all the time, watch the sidewalls about your tires. If there's a something in the road, you're better place your tire on top of it than to hit the sidewall of the tire. You can repair tires from the bottoms. It's really hard to repair a sidewall on a tire in a, in an emergency situation. When it comes to tires, like I always say have one spare. Well, I say have more than one spare, but it doesn't necessarily have to be more than one actual spare. It's like, have a way to fix tires and have a spare. So that means like have a. I use tire plugs and in a. Some kind of compressor system. I've got like a. We sell a couple compressors on our website. They're the uncharted supply company one, the Zeus one. And then also like, I honestly actually carry two compressors. And I've also got like. Because I've got some of my Milwaukee tools in there. So I've got one of those like Milwaukee ones which are really nice too. So that way I've got like a couple options. And last year I used the crap out of them. I had one trip because I had shitty tires. And I think I already talked about this. Like it was one of those things where I'm like, I'm just gonna run these stock tires so I can't run them anymore. And I was literally getting flats just on the gravel. It was so bad. I've since switched up and got better tires. But it's like you, you just, I don't know, so dumb. We all do things that were like, why did I do that? But it was good. It was a good learning experience too because there's a lot of people coming out and maybe you're renting a vehicle or like, oh, I'll rent a truck and it'll be fine. And a lot of these roads, you aren't going to be fine with the tires that are on those vehicles. Or maybe you're like, yeah, I've got my stock tires, I'm going out to a hunt. And Nevada, Wyoming, wherever, it'll be fine. And it's like, man, maybe that's, maybe that's where you should invest a little bit extra money if you can, is get good tires because you're, you're either gonna get like, you're gonna get so many flats that you can't get out of your spot. We ended up, I think I had four flats, like trying to get out. I had, I was able to, I was like unable to repair one. I was able to repair, it was on. Yeah, I think it was, it was different tires, but I had like four flats in like a bunch of repairs. I ran out of plugs, like all my freaking compressors, routed batteries. By the end of it, I ended up having to put my spare on, got a flat in the spare, plugged that and was like, I'm going to go buy new tires and wait. And I burned a whole day on a deer hunt trying to get out. It was just terrible. Luckily I had another. I mean, I was towing another vehicle that I could drive. So we drove that in with one of the spares, got that fixed, got the vehicle out, like got home, got new tires, but it just wasn't worth it. So. But watch the sidewalls because, you know, it's the one thing you should pay most attention to on the road is something that can puncture the sidewall. So the sidewalls, like the side of the tire. Anywhere they can scrape a sidewall puncture is like a death to the tire. Like it's very. I've. I got a sidewall puncture in Mexico one time on a side by side and it's probably super dangerous to patch it, but it was a light side by side and it was the only tire we had. We had no spare I was with Tim Burnett, and we were down hunting coos deer in Mexico. And we were a long ways away from anyone. And I think I put, like, I don't know, every plug I had in the side wall and it was able to get out. And then I also did, like, a can of. What is it, like, slime or whatever. I think I did all this. I did all the slime I had and, like, all the plugs I had. And we filled it up and we continued to use it. So it worked. It held pretty good for that trip. But it doesn't generally happen in a. In a larger vehicle. I mean, there's things you can do just in emergency, just get yourself out of somewhere. But yeah, watch the sidewall, man. Number 10. Have recovery gear. And what I mean by recovery is like some way of, like, if you get stuck, get yourself out. So for me, a basic kit is like a jack, a shovel. I often have, like, a couple boards in there because sometimes it's nice to be able to put the boards on a jack or something like that. If I'm in, like, snowy situations or whatever, I use these, like, truck claws. Sometimes I'll have in my truck that you put around the tire, I have chains. I'll have, like a tow strap of some kind. And then I have a winch on not all my vehicles, but a couple of my vehicles that I use. Like, the side by side has a winch. The Jeep has a winch. Truck does not have a winch. I used to have one that would go into the hitch receiver, which was kind of nice. And then you can plug it into the back and like, put it in your truck or whatever. But having some way to get yourself out with a, you know, with like a. A tow strap. And if there's another vehicle with you or whatever, like you can get out of some. Some pretty good stuff. I've even, like, winched myself out with a high lift jack before. Sometimes you gotta. You'll need to, like, the shovel's good because you can dig stuff up, put stuff underneath the tires. Generally, like, you get stuck, you're gonna have to jack the vehicle up, put something on the tires. Like if I have a chainsaw, cut like boards or other things with it and kind of build a little road out of there. Sometimes it's nice just to have that kind of stuff. There's these things that guys that drive in a lot of sand use that. Like little tracks that you put down in front of the vehicle. They work really good in the snow as well. I'VE got some of those. I don't use them that often, but it's always nice to have recovery gear and then with recovery gear too. Like if you're winching or doing something like that, have things to keep it safe, like a winch, blanket or something just in case something snaps. And then use like good form as far as putting yourself in a safe position. Number 11. This is just, you know, from something that I see a lot of people do. I've seen this like so many times recently. Last year I saw people doing this like four times just near the highway or whatever. It's like, don't pull a vehicle from the tow ball. And really anytime you're winching, you're pulling something. So like what will happen is a guy will get like a toe strap truck stuck. They're off the road in the snow, they hook it to the tow ball and then they like try to pull them out. The tow ball's designed to have like a lot of the weight on the top. It's not designed for that force of pulling, like you're pulling something out. I do know a person that died from the tow ball coming undone, shooting through the vehicle and killing him, which is a really, really sad deal. And I've seen it happen. Like I've known other people that that's happened to. So it's not just like a one off thing. It does happen. So like hook to the frame of the vehicle and then, you know, make sure everybody's out of the way and be safe. That's just like my little public service announcement. To maybe keep somebody safe is like it's a dangerous, like it's a dangerous way to try to pull someone out. Because it's not, you know, that all that stuff is metal that can come flying off under tension. So be careful of that. And I think, you know, with those rules, like just kind of remembering those things, planning on not like doing things. So you don't get stuck being proactive instead of reactive. And then if you do get stuck, having stuff to get you out is gonna kind of put you well on your way to getting there and getting out and having a good trip. Now that's not to say that even myself, I get stuck sometimes. I've done a lot of recoveries, not just myself, but like other people and helped a lot of other people get out. Like it's a thing that happens. I don't know how many recoveries I'll do in a season. I mean, over a dozen probably, maybe more. Some of them are easy Some of them are difficult for me. It's fun because I'm like, cool. This is something. It's like a skill that I've acquired by being stupid in my youth of like having to get out and then not having anybody to call. I've definitely got myself out of a lot of stuck situations. I'll tell you. I'll share. I don't know, I've probably shared this before, but it's a fun story. Like one of the shittiest. We'll call it a recovery I had. I was hunting in New Zealand for. I was tar hunting. And so there we just like, we drive up the river valleys and. And then go to these huts. And so you're like driving up the river. You got. I got like a snorkel on the vehicle. Like serious off roading. Like, I. There's like parts where I'd fill my vehicle with water so it would be weighted down. Then like drive across the river, go up and you're just like going over these giant rocks and the whole deal. Right. Well, it got dark and I didn't know where I was going. I mean, this is. This is like old school hunting, I guess. Like no pre telling any. Like there's no way to communicate with the outside world aside from, you know, like when you're back in service, there's cell phones, but like outside of service, nothing. And like the map was just. I think I was going off of a hut map that was like literally a gas station hut map of being like. I think I picked it up at a service station. It was like a napkin map, you know, like a placemat that ends up being a map. Like is one of those. But like the hut wasn't really on. I don't know what other maps I had. I clearly would have had some kind of map. But I don't know if. I don't know, I was like, oh, the hut's over here and it was over there. So it got dark and I'm like, I'm just gonna stop this other hut because I couldn't get to. It was a lot slower going than I was expecting. Well, it had rained like a lot and the rivers finally went down. So as I was driving to the hut, it was dark and I inadvertently like drove into this really soft spot. Like everything was good as rock and it was just like bog. And I got stuck and like real stuck, buried it up to the running boards. And so I hiked to the hut, it was like a half a mile away or something and left my vehicle There. And it proceeded to just rain all night. So dumb. And when I got back, it was like, if I thought it was stuck before, it was now in. It was just buried, like, sunk, essentially. It was fine. Like, it was recoverable, but it just was so stuck. And so I. There was, like, a river. The riverbed was, I don't know, maybe a quarter mile away or something like that. Maybe a half mile, something. I ended up keeping track. I don't remember. I'll have to look it up. I probably said it at one point with, like, more accurate description, but. So in order to get unstuck, I had the high lift jack. And I would. In order to get the jack, like, everything was sinking so much. So to jack it up, I'd have to get, like, a stone, like a large rock, and then I'd put the rock down and then start to jack it up, and it would, like, push the rock down, and I'd put another rock on it and then continually do this. And then to get the rocks, I had to walk to the river, which was like a quarter mile away. So I'd load up. I had, like, a frame pack. I loaded it up with rocks. So however much that weighed, like 150 pounds. I don't know. It was a lot. And then would do that trip. And then in order to, like, even lift the vehicle a little bit, I had to. I think it was, like, seven rocks on each side. So I do that. And then I would pile rocks in underneath the tires and tried to build, like, a road on the way out, like. And I think I carried two ton of rock. I think it took me. It took me like, four days to get out, something like that. I have, like, a week to hunt. And I think I, like, used my entire hunt getting this vehicle unstuck. It was, like, over. I think it was, like, four days to get out two ton of rock carrying however many miles of, like, back and forth, you know, like, quarter mile of carrying rock it was in. It was like, just so much work. And I think I had at one point, like, I was able to, like, get it up and then drive a little, and then it would just sink, and then I would do that again. So I like, like build it up, jack up all four tires with seven rocks, essentially fill it with rocks, pull back a little bit, and then it sink again. And then I would do that and, like, keep doing that. Like, kind of keep putting rocks as the path out and, like, get a little bit further and sink and sink and sink. And I mean, I did that for days. And I got out. It was great. And I. And then I hiked up and shot a bull tar and it was awesome. Like, it was a rush. Hiked up to the glacier and killed the tar and then got out. It was. Yeah, that one was like, just, you know, I should have just stopped where I. I should have just been in a better position and. And not tried to, like, drive around where I didn't know in the dark and whatever. But, you know, it happened and I got out and it was great. Oh, and I think I did in the end, like, the final part, I was able to use the high lift jack and a toe strap and then, like, bearing rocks and kind of using that as a winch. But anyways, it was a. It was a long recovery and I got. And I recovered myself. So, needless to say, like, it was all part of the adventure, all part of the story, all part of the fun. But try not to put myself in those kind of situations because it's just so much easier when you don't have to, like, build a road to get your dang vehicle out. And there was, like, there was no one coming to help me. Like, it wasn't. I did have a buddy that I told where I was going to be, but I still wanted to hunt. And I was like, what am I going to do? Just sit here and watch this vehicle sink over the next next week? You never know what other kind of rain and whatever was coming. So always an adventure, always a lot of fun. And, yeah, just kind of a fun story. Reminiscing about getting myself unstuck. It's one of those things that I'll never forget. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that podcast. You know, I think one of the things with Western big game hunting is all the little. All the little stuff that goes into it. So much to learn, so much to know. Some of this stuff, like, especially if you didn't grow up doing it, it's like, how would you even know? And I think that that's part of the reason why encounter so many people lately that, you know, it need. Need help, and a lot of them probably maybe would be able to get out. You know, it's just nice to be able to lend a hand or whatever. I mean, I see it. I see it every year, multiple times a year. And so it's definitely a topic that I think is worth talking about because maybe it's just not something that people grow up doing or things that people think about. It's like, for a lot of people that Stuff is just what you have been doing since you were before you even had a driver's license really. And then for some people it's like this is the first time they're ever doing it and there's a lot of people that are in between. It's like I've done it forever, but I don't really know all the little nuances. And so it's always good stuff to talk about. So I hope you guys enjoyed that. You know, one of the things I'm going to be so today's Thursday. It's the first day of the Western Hunt Expo. If you guys are going to the Western Hunt Expo, check out my booth. It's booth 5470. Swing in, check it out. We've got a ton of awesome deals just for the show. We're gonna have like a day six arrow cutting station, some other stuff and then one of the cool things that we're gonna have there, I think probably one of the, one of the things that I'm really excited about Montana Knife Company, awesome supporter of this podcast. And we did that elkhorn, my elkhorn skinner release with them. We've done two drops so far. Well, on this last one, I saved 50 of those knives just for sale in our booth during the Western Hunt Expo. So if you missed it, if you missed those drops and you're going to be at the Western Hunt Expo, I have 50 Elkhorn Skinners. If you got a friend that's like, man, I wish I would have got that one. Swing by, they'll probably go quick. But the we'll have them, you know, there until they sell out. And so I'm excited about that because that's fun to, to have those there in person. And then we also have, you know, some other really great, some really other really great products in there. We got the tripods, we've got our live wild gear, we've got the kids gear and we've got some great, great deals. If you guys also like, if you're like, oh, okay, you didn't get, you aren't going to the show. You didn't get that Montana Knife company knife. They're dropping new knives all the time, different styles and other things. Make sure you're on their email list just to know when a drop goes so you can make sure to get on. And then they're continually, you know, filling their stock of in stock items. So I notice that there's some stuff in stock now sometimes as it gets closer to the hunting season, a lot of those get. Get gobbled up. So if you guys are interested, check that out website, montanaknifecompany.com and then a couple of the show specials we got going for the people that are going to be there. I've got 10% off my live wild rifles. And then I've got a day six arrow, like station there where we're going to be cutting our day six arrows. We got some deals on, like if you buy half a dozen arrows and three broadheads, we got a little bit of 10% off or like a dozen day six arrows, 10% off or like six broadheads, 10% off. And then we've also got some other really cool products and sales, like little specials for the show. For those. For those of you that come out and do it, you know, I. And I know I was like, well, I can't make it to the show. Can I get the deal? And I just like to do those deals for the shows because it's, you know, for a lot of people, it's like you got to travel to it. There's some other expenses. And so we try to do our best for those that come out and say, hey and pick something up, we appreciate it. And also, ton of people, ton of you guys have asked for kids stuff, so I made a little bit of kids stuff. I'm also gonna have one of those big buck hunter games with the kids stuff there just to play. We check out our booth. It should be fun, man. It'll be cool to see you guys and, and talk hunting and. Yeah. So until next week, I'm just gonna say drive on. Catch you guys later.