Dustin Diefenderfer (3:32)

Yeah, I love that question because we've been talking about it since the beginning of Mountain Tough, and I've learned more about that specific question every year over the last nine years of. Of being in the Mountain Tough business. And it's a. It's a huge, huge topic because a lot of people are putting in for their tags right now. They're seeing, you know, Montana deadlines, Colorado deadlines, Arizona deadline, Wyoming deadlines. And that usually kicks them into a different mindset of, if I draw this tag, am I going to be ready? And so for, like, Wyoming, for example, we. We applied a few months ago. We would find out in May if we're going on that hunt. But just the anticipation of that hunt starts to change your mindset of, like, if I do draw this, I have to be ready to go on that trip. And all of these western trips are. Are more competitive than ever before. So the difficulty of drawing a tag, an elk tag, a deer tag out west, is harder than ever before. So if you do draw it, you certainly want to take advantage of it, and you don't want to burn a tag of a lifetime because you're out of shape. And so since the beginning of Mountain Tough, we. We've talked about this on your show, and it's just becoming more and more obvious to me how important this stuff is. So historically, we would talk about, hey, if you're going on A, a gnarly backcountry hunt in September. You have to start training in May. If you, if you miss maybe then you have to start training in June. Any day earlier you can start is better. So it's like that analogy of the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best day to plant a tree is today. So if you're already not training, you need to, you need to start training. And the science we used to talk about related to that was, look, it takes scientifically like 12 weeks to have some muscular adaptations and some cardiovascular adaptations. So we need our muscles to be stronger, we need our muscle endurance to go up, we need our VO2 max to go up and our lactate threshold to change so that we feel like we're in better shape. So when you start feeling like you're in better shape, that's because those adaptations have happened. And those adaptations take time. And so when you see a lot of folks start training for a September hunt in August, really what they're they're doing is they're knocking a little bit of the rust off. They're not actually going to be in much better shape before that hunt because there's not enough time for those adaptations to actually take place. And so preseason prep training, we've, I've actually switched the way I talk about it because I used to talk about it in like, you have to train in April, you have to train in May. If you're getting into June and July, you're, you're kind of pushing that time window there, depending on when your hunt is. But more recently, the conversation is you should really never stop training. I mean, you got to be training all year. If you're not training all year, you should be because these things all start stacking on each other. The like positive snowball starts stacking. And so if you're building muscle all winter and then you switch to more cardio focused training in the spring, you're 10 steps, 100 steps ahead of that guy. That's only training in the spring. And so it's a awesome topic to talk about. And you know, there's so many other benefits to it outside of hunting as well.

Remy Warren (7:39)

Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. And one thing, you know, for me I noticed this year is, you know, I did more of that strength training from wintertime, right? And then I came into the spring now and my wife and I are doing a marathon here in May. And you know, my thought was like, okay, I gotta be doing a lot of Cardio, like, get, get ready earlier for that. And I just kind of took a back seat to that and jumped on, you know, doing the. The New Year's challenge, the live ready challenge. So I was like, okay, we're going to do that. And I'm like, when that ends, then I'll jump back into my cardio. Right. And. And I really didn't do hardly any cardio during those eight weeks. But when I came back, like, okay, right after the eight weeks, running seemed kind of hard. Like, I'm like, dang, man, I'm out of running shape because I just haven't been running.

Dustin Diefenderfer (8:32)

Yeah.

Remy Warren (8:33)

And then it was like a couple weeks in, and my times are almost double. Like, I mean, I'm just like, faster, feeling better. The. The timed runs are, like, easier and like, oh, man. Like, because I just gained more strength than I had just, you know, doing like, specific cardio or something. And I noticed that happens too. Even like a guy like myself who's like, I'm in the field all the time, I'm doing, like, for most people, what they're training for is what I'm doing 247 for most of my life, heavy pack, hiking in the mountains. But then I go and try to do some lifting or some of that stuff. And it's hard because it's like, I'm not ready for that. I'm trained a specific way. And so I think what you guys have done with your program, the way that you lay it out through the entire year, I've seen more improvement in myself. You know, just by following that in, like, in different aspects than, you know, kind of just go in pioneer style and be like, no, we find I'll just. I'll just grunt it out because I'm good at that. Like, I've done that forever. But, you know, like, at times, like, I'm older now, I've got kids and a family, I've gone through some injuries, and things change. Like, you just aren't the same as you were five, seven years ago. But you can be better too. You know, you just got to, like, take that. That different mindset, which is cool because, you know, I really lean on you guys for that. You guys know, I like to, like, you guys are the experts in this. You guys have studied, you look at it. You really know what it takes for hunters and people going into the mountains to be successful. And that's what, you know, what I really value about you guys is, like, when you come on here and talk to our audience about, you need to do this year round or get into it. There's a reason behind that. And I think that we've talked about this a lot, but the biggest thing is just building that lifestyle habit. And the hardest part is jumping in. You know, I think that was the cool thing about that live ready challenge. One of the things that I was, I think probably the hardest part for me about that initially was the eating out portion. And I've noticed, like, even when you pick things that you think are good eating out, you feel so much better when you, when you just have it regimented to, like, you know, yourself and home and whatever. And we did that as a family and it's become like, it's just, it's our lifestyle now. Like where we used to think about, like, oh, let's grab something quick. Oh, we'll find something good on them, whatever. It's not the same, especially as hunters where it's like, I mean, I'm used to eating wild game meat and other stuff. Yeah, you go somewhere else and you eat something that's like, whatever, you just feel like garbage.

Dustin Diefenderfer (11:24)

That was the hardest one for me too.

Remy Warren (11:26)

Yeah. Like, but, you know, I think, like, for us, we did it as a family and that was huge because it's like, all right, we're on the same page and everything like that and felt, you know, felt really good. And then when you, you combine that with the working out and the plan and then the, you know, mission specific training, which is for hunting. For me, every time I get up to work out or get done with work and like, damn it, I gotta work out tonight. You know what I'm thinking about? I'm thinking about chasing sheep and elk in the mountains. And like, it motivates me, you know, it's for no other reason than that. Right. For me personally, which is. Right. Yeah. Which is, I mean, it, it is just a better, it's a better lifestyle and that, that, you know, I think there's a lot of people like, ah, man, I, you know, I've been putting it on the back burner, putting it on the back burner. But the more that we talk about it, hopefully it inspires some people. Like, start today. That's the thing is like, you know, you can fall behind, you can do whatever, but just start today. If you're listening to this podcast and it's like, my season's next week. Start today. It doesn't, it doesn't matter when you're like, start today because you're gonna reap the benefits down the track for sure.

Dustin Diefenderfer (12:32)

Yeah. I think there's two types of people that it's helpful to talk to because the first type of person is the person who is not working out, hasn't been working out, doesn't do any training, still is, still is doing some hunting. But the, the person that has no fitness foundation in their lifestyle that can be, I think, treated differently than the person who is doing quite a bit of training. Because I just talked to a guy yesterday and he was 62 years old, he's still riding his horse four days a week, he's meeting his buddy at the gym five days a week at 4am to lift. And he's doing a tremendous amount of high elevation Colorado elk hunts. And he's like, I'm, you know, my plan is to completely rust out and crash and burn when it's my time to die, but I'm going to live this life to the fullest as long as I can. And I want to be able to take my grandkids elk hunting where I elk hunted. And the secret that he found, the secret that that guy found was consistency and just working out, becoming part of his lifestyle. And so the way he feels right now at 62 versus how he would have felt if he went to no training or if he would have spent the last 20 years going through training roller coasters, his life story today would be completely different than it is right now. Because right now for a 62 year old man, he's a complete beast. He's a, he's a complete beast in the mountains and with his family, with his grandkids, his energy, his capacity. But that all came not from a specific program, it didn't come from a specific style of workout he was doing. What it really came down to was consistency. He just consistently has worked out in some capacity for the last 40 years. And so I think all of us want that, all of us want that to happen to us. We all want longevity. We want longevity in the mountains. We want longevity with our kids, longevity with our grandkids. We want to be able to protect our family, serve our family, protect our community. We want to know that we could get out of a dangerous situation if we got into one, whether that's a natural disaster, you know, car wreck, tornado, hurricane. We want to know that we have enough physical and mental capacity to navigate through that regardless of our age. And, and the hack to that is consistency. And I've seen the polar opposite. We every year in the Mountain Tough Lab, we train a group of warriors that are getting ready for a September archery elk Hunt usually in the Bob Marshall wilderness. And so the warriors that come in for that program are amazing, amazing humans. And they were selected for that program generally because they're going through some sort of a hard time. And a lot of them are Rangers, SEALs, Special Operations, Green Berets, they come from all branches of the military. And at one point they were in extremely, extremely good shape. So to do those kind of jobs, their physical level was at an elite mark. But something in life has caused them to go through a hard time. Usually that leads to them cutting fitness out of their life. And so when they come in the first day for that program, it is always a little shocking to me how quickly we can get out of shape. So they come in and even though at one point their physical mental toughness was at the elite level, we are, we are all striving for, it's not any longer at that point because of life circumstances. And so we have to rebuild that foundation to get them ready for that Bob Marshall hunt. And if they've taken 5, 10, 15 years off, it is really, really difficult to rebuild that foundation. And it's really difficult to do that safely and in a quick amount of time. And so the thing that they lost was that consistent habit. And so for the people that are not training, the biggest life hack out there is, is to start some sort of training and do that training consistently. And that's the game changer between, you know, the people that are going to be crushing it when they're 65 versus the people that are not going to be crushing it when they're, when they're 65. And that life hack is not that complicated because we we've talked about it on this show before that from that perspective, it doesn't matter if you're on the stairmaster, it doesn't matter if you're running, it doesn't matter if you're doing peloton, jiu jitsu, yoga, if you're doing something you love physical three to four days a week, and you never miss three to four days a week, you're going to be in the top 2% of the world when you get into your 50s, 60s and 70s. Because the real hack is that consistent 3, 4, 5 days a week without ever missing 3, 4, 5 days a Week for the next 20 or 30 years of your life. For the people that are training, the people that already are training, the real hack for hunting is that that mountain tough is training you specifically to crush the mountains in the fall. And so non physically active people. I always like to talk to a little bit different than the people that are already physically active. Because all really mountain tough did was we said, hey, to be, like, the best in the world in the NFL, you're getting trained a specific way to be the best in the world. At the NHL, you're being trained in a specific way to be the best in the world. In professional baseball, you're trained to be good at that. One thing really what mountain tough did is we said, hey, no one is training someone to be the best in the world at backcountry hunting. We should take that job, because to be really, really good at hunting, you have to train a specific way. Just like if I wanted to train you to be the best baseball pitcher in the world, I would train you to be the best pitcher in the world. And so all mountain tough really did is we said, hey, the. The big season is September, October, November. So that's when we need you to peak. And we need you to peak based on the skill requirements of a backcountry hunter. So we need you to have the ability to navigate loose, uneven, rocky terrain. We need you to have the ability to handle extremely heavy packs, more heavy than even the military is usually dealing with, especially if you're a solo hunter and you got to bring a hundred pounds off the mountain. And then the thing that separates mountain hunters from anyone else is our event is so extended. And so we need to get you ready to do some real physically demanding work in the mountains for three, five, seven, ten days. And so that's the mountain tough approaches. We're going to spend all year building the world's best backcountry hunter. But really the science is we're going to train specifically as if that's your job. And so that is. That's been an eye opener to me, because we. We have had, like, black belts in jiu jitsu in the mountain Tough lab all the time in the mountain. Tough workouts just absolutely crush them most of the time. But then I've gone to jiu jitsu with them a bunch of different times, and I absolutely get crushed by jiu Jitsu. And. And really, the eye opener is you can't be good at everything. But if you want to be good at backcountry hunting, you should train specifically for backcountry hunting.

Remy Warren (21:33)

Yeah, I mean, that's a. That's a great point. And that's one that, you know, I. I've realized, too, over the years is, like, whatever it is that you do and you're training for, you can you can be in really good shape and go into kind of a different discipline, and it be very difficult. Like, you know, and. And I see it all the time too, and I see it as a hunting guide. And we've talked about this before, where there's guys that, like, man, there's. There's guys that, you know, top physical shape, do whatever kind of like, you know, what I'd call just like, guys that spend a lot of time in the gym, very capable, and then get on the mountain and absolutely crap out, right? Like, because they've just been lifting a certain way and doing a certain thing, and then they just hadn't even thought about carrying a pack and going day in and day out and hiking the mountains, and that part just fails. And like, they, they absolutely could do it. But, like, they. I think that their, their mindset's like, I'm in really good shape, and then they just get hammered by whatever. And there's a guy that maybe isn't in what I would consider as good a shape, but has been kind of preparing for the hunt. And then they show up and those guys out compete the guy that's like 10 times in better physical shape in all. In all categories, but can outperform that other person. And so that's the thing that, you know, a lot of people might not realize. Like, they're like, nah, man, I, I do whatever. I've. I've been. I'm good. And like, talking about the guys that, that already do train, they're like, yeah, I'm good, but, you know, I'll be fine. And then they get out there and they realize, like, man, I should have done something a little bit different because what they've been training for really didn't translate well. And I think that's the other thing that's, that's really cool about what you guys do is there's a lot of people that don't. Can't throw a pack on, on the weekends and go climb a mountain. Like, they just. It's just logistically that doesn't happen because there are no mountains or whatever. And, you know, your guys's training program allows them to kind of build those specific form and function for mountains. And it's a lot of. It's a lot of single leg training, a lot of, I mean, workouts with packs on a lot of stuff that, that kind of builds to that. So guys that are like, hey, I live in Minnesota. I've got an elk hunt coming up. Can I be ready for it? And yeah, you absolutely. Can but by training specifically for the task at hand, which, which is what you guys set out to do. Which is, which is really cool. One of the things that I also want to talk to you about because I noticed you've got now a new daily out, which is the yoga dailies. Talk to me about that because, you know, I've got my thoughts on it as well. Because yoga and I'm like, dude, the probably the thing that I need more than anything in life is stretching. Like it's hard for me to tie my shoes. You know what I'm saying?

Dustin Diefenderfer (24:32)

Oh man.

Remy Warren (24:33)

So is I've got 40 years of tight hamstrings, you know, So I think, I think that that's, that that's a cool and interesting thing that I, you know, that you guys just put on there. Kind of walk me through the process of, of what that's accomplishing and then, and then why you guys decide to add that to the Mountain Tough kind of ecosystem.

Dustin Diefenderfer (24:55)

Yeah, the yoga's been awesome. It's been funny because like yoga has a funny taxonomy related to it. Like, especially men hear the word yoga and they think of like a flu, flu, like spiritual class. And so we, you know, we knew that that was going to be an issue. So we're like, man, we should call it Broga, where they think they're like going to stretch and drink Coors Light or something. Like, no, you can't call Broga. And really our Mountain Tough yoga is different. I would describe it more as like an elite level body weight workout would probably be a better ex, a better description of what you're going to find when you start one in Mountain Tough. But it really came from my personal life experience, which is awesome because, you know, a lot of things around Mountain Tough they come from, we, we build products based off necessity necessities that we've ran into in our own lives. And this product is that exact story. And so I was like you that for a long time I was terrible at stretching. And I even knew the, the importance of mobility work and how critical it was, especially for longevity. And I was just, I was awful about adding it to my warm up or adding it to my cooldown. I would, I would just like skip warm ups and go right into difficult workouts. And that was, that was not an issue for me in my 20s and not really in my 30s. And then in my late 30s I bulged a disc in my back doing a back squat. And so I was squatting and I felt the pop. I went down to the ground and really couldn't get up for a while. We had a physical therapist kind of like help me in the gym so that I could get up and at least walk out of the gym. And that led to a couple years of like, significant back problems. And so I had a bulged L5S1 and I would kind of PT my way out of it, feel really good, and then it would go out again, and then I'd PT my way out of it, it'd feel really good, and then it would go out again. And it started for me where when it went out, it was a significant life event. So, like the. One of the times that it went out, I couldn't get up off the floor for like 16 hours. So I was, I was like foam rolling my back in my bedroom. And it went out. So your, your, your body just seizes, trying to protect that disc. And when it seized, I, I was in that same spot for the next 16 hours. So I had to like, pee in a bottle, Just laid there until I could slowly start, like, working my way out of it. So it was a, it was starting to become a major, major deal for me. It definitely was scary to think about, like, hey, what if this happens in the back country? I'm going to be completely screwed if something like that happens in the back country. And then just the rehab time out of that and the pain, you know, sitting creates all the compression. So driving was terrible, flying was terrible. And so I knew it was time to get it fixed. And I went in to a bunch of different specialists. I tried a lot of different. Like they do the injections to knock out the pain, or they do the injections to knock out the inflammation. I did a few of those. Still was having issues. Those bulge discs start to hit nerves, so then you get nerve damage issues. And so after all the different specialized doctors I talked to, one doctor told me, he's like, hey, you have to do surgery now or you have to do yoga. And I really did not want surgery because I've had friends that had. Had back surgeries that didn't go super well. I've had friends that had back surgeries that went well, but the ones that didn't scared me so much around back surgery that it was the last. It was definitely like a complete last resort for me. So I was like, I'd. I'd way rather go to yoga than surgery, even though I thought yoga was something I'd never wind up at. And so that led me to yoga, the, the kind of yoga that I went to is the same kind you're going to find in the Mountain Tough App. And so it is different. There's none of the, like, flu, flu kind of, like, spiritual language in ours. It's really that elite kind of bodyweight workout. And it's focused so much on. On flexibility and on core. And so all the PT movements that you typically see for a back injury revolve around strengthening your core. And so if your core is incredibly strong, you get all this spinal stabilization, and that reduces and eliminates a lot of back pain. So that's why yoga was starting to be so healing for me. And I remember the first class I went to was, like, the first time I ever felt such a reduction in my back pain was after that first one. So I just kept going, and then I would go three days a week. Three days a week, three days a week. And this was over the course of, like, two or three years. And I started to notice that if I was going three days a week, my back felt like a hundred percent. And I never had it go out. And if I went to two days a week, I could feel it getting a little bit kind of wonky and tight in there. And if I went to one day a week, if I got busy with travel and went one day a week, occasionally, if I was only making it once a week, my back would go back out. And so for me, it was like, man, if I go three days a week, I will be operating at a hundred percent all the time. So I just started going three days a week religiously without ever missing it. And that's what. That's what led to us putting it in the Mountain Tough app. I was like, man, this is the real deal, this style of yoga. It's more. People would call it a power yoga. Like, it is a mentally, mentally challenging workout. When we first put it in the app, people were like, holy smokes. Like, this is one of the most mentally challenged, challenging workouts Mountain Tough has ever had. So it is important to know it's not easy yoga. And that was the other part I fell in love with. Not only was it healing my back pain and keeping me out of surgery, keeping me out a hundred percent, but the mental toughness challenge in there, the mental toughness building I find equivalent to anything else. Like, to try to do one of these sessions without breaking that mental toughness building, that multiple times a week, plus all the flexibility benefits are enormous. So, like, loosening up those hamstrings, loosening up those quads, A lot of hunters have jacked up Shoulders and shoulder mobility that starts going away. Most people are throwing out their back from a thing called pelvic tilt, where your pelvis is actually tilting forward. The reason it's tilting forward is because most Americans now have super, super tight hip flexors. So that hip flexor gets tight, it turns your pelvis and then your back goes out. And that's because we're doing so much sitting in modern day America now. So all those issues just kind of start going away if you're doing this multiple times a week. And for me, kind of where we started is like, I knew I should be doing this stuff on my own, but I just was not executing on that. But when it became like a mental toughness challenge class for me, then I was all game for it. And so I think you're getting all the benefits of all the mobility work you should be doing, but you're getting it in like a class form now in the app that's going to really challenge you.

Remy Warren (33:39)

That's awesome. Yeah, I think that that's one thing that it's one of those where it's actually a lot easier to be led through those because of the mental, like, I don't think people realize that because, like, a lot of holding these things, like one, if you got like whatever, whatever the position is to hold it, it's hard. You know, it's like there's a stretching aspect and then there's that aspect of like holding it and you get like that those little muscles that you don't use for hardly anything start to shake. And I always equate that to, like when you're on, like, you've got your pack, you, you're, you're doing your pack out and like those being like that core strength that happens when you start to get fatigued, being able to strengthen that helps on those hunt portions where it's like, now we're getting tired and these little muscle, like what happens is the, the, the main muscles, like, wear out and you're using like these, I just like these little invisible muscles that you didn't know were there. And once you burn through those, you're done. Like, and, and, you know, just kind of being able to, to, to grind through that is huge. I had a buddy. This is like a kind of a. I don't know, just a funny story about it, but I used to do so, like, I don't know, this is probably. I started it I don't know how long ago. Quite a while ago. I'm like, every year, you know, everybody has Like a New Year's thing. Like every year I would, I would kind of choose a new thing to do that would make me uncomfortable or like something that, you know, sometimes like I felt like I was like, okay, like, you know, the hunting stuff, I was like, I. I know I'm. I'm really good at it. So I would always choose something every year to kind of just like a hobby in a way. Like, because like I took take hunting way too seriously. It's not a hobby for me. Right. It's like we're beyond hobby status. Yeah. Yeah. So. So I just choose something. So like one year was like rock climbing and I just like learn, learn rock. Like, and you're uncomfortable because you don't know what you're doing. Like going and learning and going to the rock gym and then like learning to climb a wall and doing all that. And then, you know, when you're as like, I don't remember kayaking, you just different stuff that I'm like, okay, cool, I can get up, stand up, paddle board, like, just different things. I'm like, okay, I'm going to kind of get into this is like, this will be my hobby and like figure out and just kind of like that being uncomfortable learning something new kind of thing because like it feels you learn something new. And one year I chose yoga and dude, that was the most uncomfortable. Like, I, I would go in there, I was like, all right, I guess I'm going to do this, you know, and like the whole class structure, it took me a while to find a place that I actually would go to or certain teachers or whatever. Oh yeah, dude, I can't, I can't, I can't be seen here. Like, this is just, this is rough. But I would do it and I, I felt better and like, and then I noticed like the effects on the mountain and I didn't really realize it until I was hun. Buddy of mine, John. And we're going, we're in. We're actually on one of those Arizona OTC hunts and. And we're going and we're like getting after this buck and there's a bunch of fences there and I'm. I'm just flying over the fences. And he's like, dude, how do you get over a fence so fast? And I'm like, I think about it, I was like, it's probably the yoga. And he's like, I was like, this is you. So he ends up going like doing it. And the next season he goes and he's like, watch me. He's like going over the fence fine. You know, he's like. He's like, my hamstrings don't move that way. I can't move my leg like that. Just like something so simp. It's like we laugh about it all the time. You're like, yeah. Remember that you had to do yoga to be able to get over the fences, you know?

Dustin Diefenderfer (37:06)

Yeah.

Remy Warren (37:07)

So, yeah, I guess it's like a. That's the corner crossing workout now that it's a few places. Yeah, exactly. Don't touch the space on the other side. But yeah, I mean, I. I think that, like, I think that's a. Definitely a. A value add to. To not only the app, but just for hunters in general of something, you know, you gain strength and flexibility.

Dustin Diefenderfer (37:30)

Yeah.

Remy Warren (37:31)

And also just that, like, you say that mental toughness of holding something kind of like, like how I like a lot of the wall sits and stuff that you guys have in there, because it's like, yep, you're gonna. It. It doesn't take long to hit that point of your legs are shaking. Your body's like, I need to stop. But then when you push past that, you realize, man, I thought I needed to stop it. However long. Let's say it's like half the time. And then you make it the whole time. You go, well, I guess I didn't need to. And honestly, you could probably keep going if you. If you had to. So, like, as you keep pushing that, you keep really seeing how far you can go, whether it's a. In a plank or whatever. It is like, yeah, the mind, the mindset is. Is huge. So I think that's. That's awesome.

Dustin Diefenderfer (38:15)

I think it's. It's like, important to keep your laser focus on that longevity. And that's one of the, you know, the huge benefits of yoga is just this longevity topic is. Is so critical because I just had a really good. I have a really good friend right now. We've been on hundreds of hunting trips together, hundreds of shed hunting trips together, and he's out right now from a torn peck. So he was benching and his pec tore off, which is terrible. And it's common. It's a common injury. But the reason that that happened was because his. His back is all jacked up from lifting heavy for a lot of years. So a lot of heavy squats and deadlifts has his back so jacked up. But he didn't want to quit working out. And so because he can't do much, he was just benching all the time, because he was benching all the time. He tore his pec. And so now he's out from shed hunting season. This year he's out for bear hunting season. And he's probably going to have a difficult time, like being back in the game for elk hunting season. That is the stuff that we don't want. We don't want that to happen to us. So we have to keep our eye on the longevity piece. Like, we want to be really good at what we do, but we don't want to take it so far to an extreme that we can't do what we were training to do anyways, which is pretty common in that longevity hits us from both sides of that spectrum. We can be attacked on our longevity from training so hard that we get hurt, and now we're out of the game, or we're not training at all. And so now we're so out of shape, we're out of the game. And so you got to kind of. You have to walk that longevity balance wisely. And a good way to think about Mountain Tough and the yoga is there's a really successful training app called center. And center was Chris Hemsworth's idea. So he's that, you know, that giant Australian actor, and he got super jacked and big for that movie Thor. And he essentially said, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you access to every trainer that I used that turned me into Thor, and I'm going to let you access all those trainers from your phone. And so his statement basically was like, hey, the person that turned me into Thor was not just one strength coach. He's like, I had a nutritionist, I had a boxing coach, I had a strength and conditioning coach, I had a yoga coach. And all of these people turned me into Thor. Now you can access them from your phone. And Mountain Tough is really similar to that now in that we want to turn you in to one of the best backcountry hunters you can be for the next 20 or 30 years. And we're going to give you access to everyone we would use if you walked right into the Bozeman Lab with us. So, like, you're going to see Kyle Camp's nutrition, you're going to see some daily guided prayer. You're going to see mobility coaches, strength coaches, cardio coaches, because fitness and mindset and mind, body, spirit are all working together to. To create you into this person. And so there's things that are offered that we want you to add to your life, but you don't necessarily have to add to your life. But if you do want to kind of train at that elite level, adding a little bit of all these things makes a big difference.

Remy Warren (42:04)

Oh, absolutely. I mean, and I've said it multiple times, like, fitness is one. Like, I think the mindset behind. Not just you have to. You have to have your body ready. Right. But then your mind has to push your body there. And so we talk about it all the time where the mental toughness aspect. The mental aspect of a hunt, especially a hard hunt, a backcountry hunt, a solo hunt, like, you go out by yourself. Like, the mental. I don't know, sometimes I've done a lot of solo hunting. So now it's like hunting with somebody else, like, trying to keep them up or them not bring you or whatever it is. You know, sometimes that's even. Even tougher. So I think, like, just that mental aspect is huge. And the. In the entire. Like you say it's a. It's an entire package. It's an entire system. It's not just. I. I think that's where people kind of fall off is like, some people are strong here, but they don't have the physical ability to kind of keep up with that mindset, and they burn themselves out or get injured. Seen that happen multiple times. Or someone's like, I can go. I don't know if you can. Like, I got this. And then they're like, my knees are done. Like, carry me out. It's only happened once, and it was horrible. But yeah. Or. Or the same where it's like, they've got the physical, but they don't have the mental. And I think too. And then even like, the spiritual asp, you know, having something to rely on and, like, build that also pushes your mindset and your physical ability, which is huge. And I think that that doesn't get talked about enough either. You know, the. The whole human. The mind, body, and spirit really needs to be like, when you can dial that you can really accomplish anything. I mean, and it doesn't matter. It bleeds over into so much other things. Like, like. And it really shines in the hard times, right? When things don't go great. And that happens. Like, that's every hunt for me. Like, dude, I don't know. I. I rarely have hunts that work out right. Like, people will see, like, dude, that guy, he does really good. He's really successful hunting. And I'm like, I'm the guy that in some ways, like, I'm just persistent. Like, more than lucky. I'VE been lucky out 1% of the time hunting maybe, maybe a little more than 1%. Out of 100 hunts, maybe one will be lucky. And half the time the luck happens. And I ignore the, ignore the opportunity because I'm like, I better, this happened too easy. I better keep going, better make ever screw it up in some way and keep hunting hard. But yeah, I mean like the, the entire process of it and being able to, to be persistent and, and find that success, like you can be very, you can be very successful without a lot of luck. Just being persistent enough to intersect that luck in some ways, like continuing to grind it out. Yeah, you can find success. The guys that I know that I think of as like some of the best backcountry hunters, some of the best hunters, like they can just day after day, get up, be positive, get in the mindset, focus and hunt hard. And hunting hard is a, is a major mindset, especially when it comes to things like the task at hand of not just getting there, but like the physic, the, the mental aspect of glassing and the mental aspect of dealing with terrain in areas where you're seeing a ton of hunters, where you aren't seeing any game, where you've, you know, you've had to just like bust your butt and it's not going great. And you got, you're five days into a 10 day hunt and you're like, dude, I got five more days of this suck. All right, let's, let's focus and, and really grind it out and hunt as hard on day 10 as he did on day one or harder. That makes a big difference.

Dustin Diefenderfer (45:43)

And I think that you'd probably find that those people are also, you know, super successful at some other things in their life from that same skill set, mindset and like work ethic. Because the adversity that we're seeing in hunting is just like a great visualization of what we're seeing in our life all over the board. But hunting compressed into like a 5, 7 or 10 day experience is the same thing that's going on like in our work life, our family life. It just is compressed on a hunt. So you see it so clearly. But like we're getting, we're getting hammered by adversity every day at work. We're getting hammered by adversity every day with life. We're getting hammered with adversity every day with like trying to be the best father and husband that we can. But it's the same thing. It's like the mindset of putting that optimism on staying persistent and just, you don't know when the finish line is going to be, but you're going to work hard until you achieve some sort of finish line is the, is the same mindset that's helping with these hunts. I mean like your story is a great example of that. The, you know, your podcast that we're on right now, your brand, all your content, like you have, you have over 10 years of work on all that stuff that led to where you're at right now today. And it's that 10 years of hard work that, that you know, led to these kind of moments. But it, you had a, it's a game of attrition and you fought through that game of attrition which all comes from that persistence. So the, the skill set of that on the mountain is the same skill set that's a game changer off the mountain for sure.

Remy Warren (47:40)

One of the cool things that I think about a lot and you know, doing what I do, I've had the opportunity to like meet some really cool people that are very high level in like whatever their craft through hunting. Right. Because like there's a lot of like me where I'm like, hey, I'm, I like to ski, but you know, I'm not a world class skier. But you know what, whatever it is. And there's a lot of people that are really good at whatever their particular thing is that enjoy hunting and through hunting and through some of the companies I work with, like YETI and other, you know, things, I've got to meet some really, some people that are really the best in the world at what they do. Surfing, skiing, snowboarding, mountain climbing, you know, all, all kinds, like filmmaking, like even musicians and stuff like that and had the privilege to like on a hunt, you really get a, you know, figure out who someone is and what they're about.

Dustin Diefenderfer (48:36)

Yeah.

Remy Warren (48:36)

And the coolest thing like that I think I was like, I think this would be like a really cool show to make in a way because it's like, I've thought about this for years is because like you see so many commonalities and similarities in the way they live, in the way that they talk and the way that we think about things. They like it. It's immediately like, whoa. We relate on something, but we're in two completely separate fields but have achieved very high level success at that one specific thing. Like a buddy of mine, you know, David Wisey, you guys know him?

Dustin Diefenderfer (49:16)

Yeah.

Remy Warren (49:16)

Really good at ski. One of the best half pipe free skiers in the world. And like, his mindset is a certain way that, that is kind of the same as my mindset when it comes to hunting. And then Shane Dorian, who's like the, one of the best big wave surfers to have ever existed and like the way that he goes about things is like the exact way that I talk about hunting and other stuff. And it's like big waves for him. And then you've got guys like Joe Rogan where he's like, you know, and his mindset is very similar in certain things. And then you've got guys, you know, like some of these top musicians and it's like music and it's like the same kind of persistent and, and like mindset and going through struggles and other things. This got them to where they're at. And it's really cool because it's something that you can latch on to, not just like you like, hey, we're training for hunting. It's like, yeah, we're also training for life in a way where it's, it's not just the one pursuit, but it spills over in so many other things. Business, family, relationships with people, getting things accomplished that you want to do, achieving goals. And it all stems with a certain kind of mindset and a lot of it relies on a certain type of mental toughness.

Dustin Diefenderfer (50:26)

Yeah, it's so awesome. It's so true too. I mean, everyone that is like a kind of a master of their craft, you can't align with them right away, regardless of their craft, because of that mindset and that first, that first tough fest you were out for. When we presented that film of you overcoming the adversity of, of your wrist. Bert Soren also gave that speech where he called it the ten year rule. And he said that, you know, if you look across anyone that you admire that appears to be a master in their craft, you can guarantee that there was at least a minimum of 10 years of hard work before you ever knew that person's name or who they were. So that's going to be so true. If we look at, like you or if we look at a Shane Dorian, if we look at a Joe Rogan or David Wise, before anyone saw that person on a podcast or on TV, there for sure was a minimum of 10 years of hard work behind that moment. And a lot of times it's 15 or 20 years, but the minimum of 10 is, is so accurate. And I think that's really important for people to know, especially nowadays with how popular coming out west and backcountry hunting has Gotten for people that are going to come out for their first time is just really kind of settling into the understanding of that ten year principle. Because like if you're coming out this fall for your first time ever, that is amazing. But you got to remember that like it's probably a minimum of 10 years of hard work before you're really, that you're really finding your stride and thriving in this kind of environment, which is fun. As long as you know that. As long as you know that and you, you respect the journey and appreciate the journey. I think that kind of changing that mindset versus thinking that you're going to absolutely crush it your first time. High elevation and rugged terrain and just respecting that. It's a process as a game changer.

Remy Warren (52:39)

Yeah, I mean that's awesome. I think one of the, one of the things you wanted to touch on too is a couple of the things that you guys, you know, know really well and maybe a couple of the things that you learned in the lab, maybe this last year that that could apply to this year, like ways of changing up training and then also that, that mission specific training. What's the time frame that we're looking for? Of like, you know, I think you've mentioned maybe 12 to 16 weeks, you know, to kind of really be ready. You talked about that earlier. And then maybe some of the things that you could highlight of interesting things like people always like that, like the tip, the nugget. You know, what are some things that you guys learned this last year that's like, can help hunters get get into like in just kind of a different mindset or, or like a specific movement or something that you guys learned or noticed. It's like oh hey this, this, this helps. This works.

Dustin Diefenderfer (53:36)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. We're always learning, always testing, you know, trying new things. That's always been the idea with Mountain Tough is that we have a real human performance lab here and we want to know kind of what's the latest and greatest for the mountain athlete and what's actually working and what's not working. And I think that over the last year we've, we've chatted about this a little bit before. But definitely it was an eye opener to work on that project where we, we released preseason prep 50 and 50 plus. So the PP50 plus that was all around, you know, training Randy Newberg for that doll sheep hunt he had in the McKinsey's. When I first started working with Randy, I, I had been pretty stubborn for a long time that no matter what your Age is that I wasn't really going to train, I wasn't really going to change your training style because kind of the foundational principles are the same regardless if you're, you know, 18 or 58. But Randy definitely changed my perspective on that because I was downstairs working with him in person every day and I, I definitely started acknowledging that over 50 recovery is different. Over 50 balance and stabilization and this thing called neuro recruitment are different. And so especially for someone who hasn't spent a lifetime of training and Randy's very transparent that, you know, he played basketball in, in high school and then spent most of his life as a CPA at a desk. And so he, he spent most of his life hating the gym, refusing the gym and not thinking he needed to work out. And then it finally caught up with him kind of like we were talking about at the beginning. And so that project opened my eyes that if you're, if you're over 50, then you probably should train a little bit differently than our original preseason prep programming. And all it really is is a lot more balance, a lot more stability, a lot more neuro recruitment and a lot more recovery time just because we recover faster when you're younger and if you're not acknowledging that you'll go into some over training problems and you're actually potentially like causing, you know, more harm than strength building. And so that was huge. And it wasn't something we were planning on launching but because of that experience with Randy it was like, wow, you know, the world needs to see this. The world really needs this in their hands especially because that demographic of age group is, is a huge part of hunting. A tremendous amount of hunters are in that 50 plus category because now they have time, now they have money, now they have some freedom to bounce around and do all these hunts they've always wanted to do. The kids are out of the house. And so it turns out that that's one of the biggest age groups out there, hunting. And so we, we got that product out last year. That's the Mountain tough preseason prep 50 plus. And it went completely viral because the demand for that was so high and the market waiting for it to exist. So that's important for people to know about that, are listening that that fall in that category. And then our preseason prep back, our Mountain Tough Backcountry Hunter preseason preps always been our flagship program. It was revamped last year based on all our new learnings around human performance for the mountain hunter. And so that's still, that's still the Number one choice for hunters listening right now that are going to use gym equipment. So if you're going to use gym equipment, either robust home gym or going to a local gym, then mountain tough backcountry hunter preseason prep is kind of the flagship to get you ready for any major hunt you have this fall. Timing wise, that's a 16 week program. So you are right that you can do, you can be doing all sorts of training, but there's a lot of wisdom in switching to mission specific. And so you could be doing a lot of different fitness right now options. But there's so many advantages to going mission specific 16 weeks out from your event. And so if you have a big late season win Colorado like third week rifle hunt, just, just reverse engineer 16 weeks from that and then make sure that you're switching over to that preseason prep. That's, that's certainly a complete game changer because that's like the analogy we were talking about with football. Like we want you to peak in football for the playoffs. That Colorado hunt is your playoffs. And that preseason prep is designing you to, to peak for that moment. So you'll be in the best physical condition for that mission if you just reverse engineer those 16 weeks.

Remy Warren (59:04)

That's awesome. Oh man, that's great. Well, I'm excited. I, you know, I've got my, my docket this year is like, I mean, I've always loved, you know, backcountry hunts and those hard hunts and I've got a couple general tags and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna go back into that spot and just grind it out. It's a, it's a hunt. Let's go. Yeah, you know, I've got, I've got a backpack caribou hunt that I'm really excited about this year. And then just a, you know, just a couple like mule deer, elk tags that, you know, I, I, I've got a lot of points in a lot of places, but I'm almost just like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just keep trying to pick up those easier tags that I can get while I can get them because I think they're going, you know, it's getting harder to do that. And some of those hunts that I'm like go back to my haunts in some ways, like some, some classics and some, and then go explore some new stuff. I don't know, I just feel like, I feel good, you know, right now. Like, I'm excited about getting into the season and, and like just preparing it and Just being in the best kind of physical, mental, spiritual shape I can get into. So when I'm on the mountain, just ready to rock and roll and hunt hard and we'll see, we'll see how they pan out. You know, I've got a few hunts planned that are going to be toug few that, you know, sometimes it's nice to draw like a. A good tag and get a gimme every once in a while. Like, cool. I can be picky. You know, I can have a lot of encounters. We'll see how this goes. You know, might. Might try to do that on a few, few tags as well. But really the, the hunts that I'm looking forward to the most this year, like some really hard, rough backcountry hunts and got a couple mountain hunts coming up this spring and some other stuff that I'm like, yeah, man, I'm gonna make time for. For the. Because the other thing about those hunts, do they take time? They take training, they take. And you just get to focus on those. I mean I, I do that all the time. But a couple of the ones that I'm more excited about this year is like, man, let's go into the. Let's go. Let's go deep and look for a big meal deer in a country where there aren't hardly any meal deer. Let's go do it. You know, like, yeah, the challenge, it's fun. And you know, I think this year, I don't know as much as or more than any other year. I'm just really looking forward to, to those hunts coming up. Especially that, that backpack caribou hunt will be pretty awesome. Looking forward to that. Kind of up in some of that similar country where, where you know, Randy was talking about, you know, the Mackenzie's and whatever. And I'm like, dude, I gotta go. I gotta go get up there and check out some of that country, like Giant wilderness area and Yukon and wherever. So Northwest Territories, like check out some of that kind of country. I'll do that this year. And, and those are the things that I think about when I'm like, here we go, getting ready, you know, for the season. Gonna. When you just like, all right, what am I doing and why am I doing it? And I can start thinking about those hunts and visualize. When I visualize the hunt, this is, I don't know, this is like my last little tidbit. But for me, when I visualize getting ready for the hunt, it's funny because I, I just kind of. It kind of just dawned on Me, I don't think about the success portion of it. You think like when I'm, when you're really grinding it out, like, it's weird, that mental picture that you build. When I think about that successful, like when I think about, okay, my motivation is this hunt. And I think about that care. And what I think about is like that, that struggle moment, that hardest moment of the hunt, because I, I've hit it on like backpack sheep hunts, hard, whatever hunts. And I, and I visualize the grinding, but in that terrain, like, I visualize that like I'm hurting like portion on the mountain on that hunt, because I know if I can hit it here and focus on getting to that point there, then I can push past it and find that success. I'm not like, my visualization at the end isn't picking up the big bull elk while I'm like grinding it out. It's that like trudging with the hundred pound pack on or that, that hardest portion, like think about the hardest thing that I can encounter on that hunt. And that's my goal, is to like, get to that point. It's a weird, it's a weird thing that I kind of notice like when I'm doing it because, like, that's my motivation is like the hunt. And I'm thinking about, okay, I'm training for this specific. I've got two hunts in my head right now that I'm thinking about every time I step foot there and then maybe dreaming about drawing that sheep tag or whatever. And I visualize myself on that hunt, you know, in that struggle moment, that like hardest moment, and just powering through it. And I think that that's what gives me a lot of motivation in the day to day. Because I, I recognize that like there's going to be those moments and that's what I'm training for, you know, being able to, to blow past those moments and just continue to hunt hard.

Dustin Diefenderfer (63:52)

Yeah. And you visualize that in the gym and then when you hit it on the mountain, it's not so much of a surprise. You were planning on that happening.

Remy Warren (64:01)

Yeah, because I think like a lot of people get in there and they're like, I'm, I'm. Whatever it is, like a long run or a heavy hard day or whatever it is. And you're like, you're thinking about like picking up the, picking up the ram at the end of the tunnel. But like you just thought it was sunshine and rainbows up until that point. Like, I'm focused on like the hunting hard aspect so when I get there, it's like, like, that's my goal is to like, be able to push through that. I don't know, it's just one of my visualization things. Like during the training of, like, the things that I think about is like, that's, that's kind of what kind of keeps me going, keeps me motivated. Like, because it, it's the reasons, like, gets you up day after day. The success portion is like, it always comes when you, or for me at least, when you can grind through it and, and be persistent and power through those like, really hard days. So when I visualize the hard days, I'm. I'm training for the hard days. I'm not training for the easy days. Easy days might come, but I'm, I'm really preparing for those hard days. And in my mind that's, that's where I'm going. That's what I'm thinking about. That's where I'm like springtime. I'm thinking about, okay, I've got this tag, I'm drawing this tag, and I'm thinking about the hardest part of what, what I'm going to encounter while I'm out there. And that's where I'm working for.

Dustin Diefenderfer (65:13)

Yeah, it's so good. Phil K. The the Mountain tough mindset. Coach had us go through one last year. Based off his military special operations background, he's a big visualization guy. And so he sat us all down and his workshop was visualizing moments of in your life where you'd been at your absolute best. So you think about like for that group we were in, he had them thinking about like their absolute best, like military mission. Like, they felt the best, it went flawless. They were just kind of like physically and mentally crushing it. Kind of one of those like flow state moments where like, you're not getting tired, your, your cognitive function is just like on peak performance. So he had us all sit down and just visualize that. Like, like think about a time in your life where you were kind of just crushing it on all fronts. Mentally, spiritually, emotionally. Whether that was a mission or whether that was a marathon or an ultra marathon, or whether that was a hunt. Because we've all had, we've all had days where you're just like, man, I can't believe how good I feel in this environment. And we've all had days where it's like, man, I really am sucking today. And so he really brought us into that moment where we were all feeling like at our prime, our absolute best. And it was a different moment for each person. And then with that visualization in your mind, then he starts challenging you. Like, all right, how can we recreate that? How can we. We recreate that with what we're about to do, this workout we're about to walk right into, or how can we recreate that on this spring bear hunt that we're about to go on in a couple months? And it. It was a game changer because you're like, oh, like, I easily can think of when I was at my absolute best, especially on some of those, like, mountain marathons that I used to do a lot there. There was a few where you're just like, man, I cannot believe how good I feel today. Because, like, you did all the right work, and you did it all the right way. And then it just, like, really paid off on race day. And so you can start to put those puzzle pieces together of, like, oh, like, to feel like that again. With this bear hunt coming up, I gotta make a few changes, and it was a super helpful process.

Remy Warren (67:56)

That's awesome. Yeah. I think the visualization aspect is huge, too. When you're. When you're preparing for something because you're like, all right, it's however far out, but you can kind of get into that. That moment in that mindset today, every day. And that even helps you when you're out there where you're like, okay, you know, you. You're training not only your body, but your mind within that time frame to be ready for that whatever moment it is. And it's like, okay, we're gonna make this that key moment. We're like, all right, we're getting through. And that. That's what. I guess in. In some ways, like, when I'm doing my visual whatever, I'm. I'm seeing, like, that hardest moment and just power, like, yeah, doing it real well, like, crushing it. And you're like, that's what I'm. That's what I'm visualing. That's what I like when I'm in training or whatever, getting ready. That's what I'm thinking about, like, the heart, like, powering through the hard part. And you're like, yeah, it makes it easy because when you hit that hard part, your mind's already been there a hundred times. And you're like, yep, I knew this was coming. All right, let's go. And that's. That, to me, is like, you can think about those moments where you, like, you have that. I mean, I can think about quite a few of them. Like, some moments are just like, you know, and you think about. I. I mean, there's been, you know, like, a lot of things in your life, whatever, where you're like, man, this would crush a normal person. You're like, you just. You almost like. Like get this, like, adrenaline high even sometimes thinking about it, where you're like, man, we survived that. I mean, there's been a couple. Like, I've had a couple experiences. Like, you know, some of those life and death experiences. You don't want to go through those and, like, they can be, you know, it's like there's a lot of, you know, whatever, but kind of in some ways, like, it gives you that, wow, we made it, guys, like, feeling, you know, like, yeah, you're like, hey. And I think, you know, it just kind of progresses you in a lot of ways, too, but kind of preparing for those. Those hard times and the good times and making those hard times good times. You know, it's like that. That's such a key on some of those really tough whatever hunts where you can. You can find. You can. You can turn it into success just based off of your mindset, your physical preparation, and being in a right space mentally. So I always enjoy, especially this time of year, just jumping on with you and kind of reinvigorating. Hopefully some of the guys listening like, oh, man, I've been slacking on this or that, and today's the day, like, get in there, jump on the mountain. Tough app. Like, find your program. I know even too, like, the. The live ready challenge that you guys did at the beginning of the year is a great place for people to start because it, you know, it's not asking a lot, but it's. It's setting out a few rules that are like, even as someone that I feel like, you know, most of my life fairly, like, yeah, I eat good. I, you know, stay healthy, whatever. Just having, like, a little bit more regiment to the whole system, and I think that's still up. So, like, you can kind of do. Do that whenever, right? You can go through the. Yeah, you can. You can start, you know, right now and say, like, hey, mixing in. Mixing in the eating, and we've talked about this before, but mixing in the eating and the whatever and the working out and all that, like, it all works together and. And how you start to feel like you just have to just like a hunt grind through the. The part to make it a part of your life. You know, the eight weeks is. I think that's a great, you know, stretch of time that makes it, you. You know, a habit. I think most people probably, like, after a month of doing something, you kind of start to feel like, yeah, feels good. This is, like, habit. And then you just continue it over the next whatever, you know, making them part of your. Your routine.

Dustin Diefenderfer (71:33)

It's a great place for people to start because, yeah, if you. If you haven't been working out and you start with that challenge, the, you know, the live ready challenge, you're kind of locking in all those areas and making it a lifestyle, which is really the. The secret sauce is you got to get over that hump so that it starts becoming a lifestyle. And then once it's a lifestyle, it's kind of like the sky's the limit.

Remy Warren (71:57)

Yeah. Yeah. And then I think for other guys, you know, preseason prep and just. Just focusing on, hey, I'm gonna get ready for the hunt. I. I know, like, I'm gonna visualize it. I'm gonna get in there, I'm gonna. I'm gonna train for it. And then, you know, find yourself on the mountain 12, 16 weeks from now, absolutely crushing it. And wherever. That's the thing that I like to talk about, too, is like, wherever you are, myself included, everyone, we can always be better down the track. You know, where I want to be 12 weeks from now is not where I am today. Right. It's just like, it's. But it takes time. It's not just an overnight kind of thing. So it's like, I'm always striving to be better in multiple areas. Whatever it is, you know, like, whether it's mental, whether it's physical, whatever it is, you know, striving. Striving to just be better down the track. So wherever you're at, like, it. You're like, well, I'll never be. You know, this is one of the things that I hear from. It was like, well, I'll never be that guy. It's like, you don't have to be that guy. You just have to be a better version of yourself. And what's that going to do? It's going to help you on the mountain. It's a. It's a personal thing. Right. It's just. It's aiding in your success. It doesn't. Other people, unless you're in. When you're hunting with other people, get them on the same train is you make them the best version of themselves. So when you're both out there together, you know, you can only hunt to your, you know, essentially your weakest link, you know, on a Team thing. That's kind of one of the reasons I started hunting by myself is like, well, no one wants to keep up. No one. So I'm just gonna go alone. Did that for years and. And love it. Right. And was able to push harder and further than I would. But, you know, if you are going with people and you're getting ready, get them ready, too. Like, it's. It's such a better experience when everybody's on the same page, on the same wavelength, like, working for the same common goal. You guys are going to have a much better experience because most people, the majority of hunters, when they're doing out like, this is with someone else, and so they're getting all ready, and then they got somebody with them, it's like, can't make it. Like, damn, what's the play now? You know? And then it causes, like, even more mental anguish.

Dustin Diefenderfer (74:08)

Oh, yeah, you see that a lot.

Remy Warren (74:10)

See that all the time together. Yeah.

Dustin Diefenderfer (74:11)

I mean, even if your buddy is, like, in North Dakota and you're in Minnesota and you're just going through a program together, it's a game changer, because then you're checking in with each other. You're like, hey, how'd you do today on this workout? Oh, how many rounds did you get in? That accountability, that encouragement, that community of a few guys doing this together that are planning on hunting together from across the country, it definitely is a game changer, because that happens all the time. You are right. Most people are coming out west with a buddy or two, and that buddy or two might be from college, and they live in different towns now, and. And you don't want to be the liability on that group. You don't want to drag the group down, so you got to be training. But then if you guys are all on the same program and you're checking in with each other each day, it just makes the whole process better.

Remy Warren (75:08)

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think, like, that. That accountability of doing something together makes a big difference now. Or you could just be the guy that's in really good shape and carries everybody's stuff. I won't call any of my friends out that I've carried some stuff up the mountain. It's all good. It's all fun, so. Well, man, thank you so much for jumping on, taking the time today. I know. I know our listeners love these podcasts, and we always glean, you know, myself included, fitness, mental toughness, all kinds of aspects out of. Out of these conversations. You know, is there any, you know, things you have that you could just Kind of like a last call out or anything you think, like, you know, call to action for, for starting. I mean, obviously, you know, starting Mountain tough now for the fall is the best way to do it. Like, like we could talk about what to do on this podcast, but that day to day thing, like, you really just have to dive in. And I, I think like you guys have the best system for it. Like, it's just, it's laid out so easy that way. But yeah, any, any last kind of send off.

Dustin Diefenderfer (76:15)

Yeah, I think, I mean, we've been talking about this a lot at Mountain Tough that just, I think just like, you know, wrapping, wrapping your mind around that. We were just made for more. And typically, you know, as humans, we're struggling with some passivity and some complacency, but really like, like understanding that, that we were made for more in, in just kind of living that is part of starting today. Because, you know, a lot of people aren't going to start today because that passivity and that complacency is going to win the day. And, and you got to win that fight. And a good way to win that fight is just. Is thinking about that we were made for more. And, and this stuff really matters. Like, us being in great shape matters a lot for our hunts coming up this fall. And that's going to be the difference between success and failure. It's certainly going to be the difference between feeling terrible or thriving. But this stuff matters with like how we're performing at work. It matters how we're performing with our kids. It matters all across the board. And I think about like the analogy of thinking about a duck dog that you've watched and in the, the duck watching a duck dog or an upland dog or a mountain lion dog, if you have ever been on any of those hunts and you kind of really sit back and watch that dog work, it is kind of emotional because you see that. I remember with my lab all the time when it got on a duck hunt and you just kind of see that like, joy on its face and how it'll jump into water at negative 20 degrees and it doesn't even bother it. You watch that and you're like, wow, this thing, this thing was made for this. It was made for this. And I think especially men, men that are listening to the show today, like we were, we were made for some wildness in our life. And your show, Remy, is like a perfect example of, of live wild as part of your lifestyle and the message that you preach. But we really need to understand that like, we were made for this wild side of us. We were made for these adventures to live. And so training for them is key, and going on them is critical, because if we aren't on these adventures and we. We kind of numb that part of our life and fall into that complacency and passivity trap, we essentially do become like lines in cages. And like a lion in ca. In a cage is where you see, like, the anxiety, the depression, the suicide, the alcoholism, and sometimes it's just, like, depression and grouchiness, and that leads to all these other problems that we're seeing in a. And a good solution to that problem is. Is knowing that being wild is okay. And. And going on these adventures is actually really, really good for you. And not going on them is happening a lot of times because people don't feel like they're in good enough shape. And so starting today is more important than just this hunt that you're planning this fall. It's. It's actually, like, way, way deeper than that. Like, that hunt this fall is fueling that wild side of your heart. And if you extinguish that side of your heart, there's some really, like, downstream consequences to that that are not good. And so working out is just one part of that, but when you put all the puzzle pieces together, it's a really big deal.

Remy Warren (80:08)

That's awesome, man. Well, thanks so much, Dustin, for. For jumping on with us. You know, I. I appreciate you guys coming on and being able to talk. Talk so well about essentially getting people ready for this fall season, so thank you. And, yeah, man, I. I just. I appreciate you guys being able to talk with our listeners and then also putting so much into just getting people ready and. And all the things that you guys do on the mountain. Tough side. You know, it's been awesome to see, you know, the way that you guys work and the way you guys are constantly improving things and just, you know, making it better for. For the hunter and the end user in a way where it's like, hey, you know, it's easy to. It's easy to get ready. The hard part of, like, figuring out what to do, you guys have taken care of, so I appreciate that, and thank you so much.

Dustin Diefenderfer (80:56)

Thanks, man. Yeah, always a pleasure.

Remy Warren (81:02)

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that podcast with Dustin. You know, it's always awesome to have that going into the season, thinking about getting ready now, spring training, you know, if our sport is hunting, and now's the time to kind of be perfectly ready for that season. One of the things That I think about too. When it comes time to be successful, go on those harder hunts, having some of the right gear makes a big difference. One of the companies awesome supporter of this podcast, Stone Glacier. You know, I'm a big fan of their packs and a lot of their products. They're just designed so well for mountain hunting and mountain hunters, they're lightweight, but can also carry a ton of weight. You know, when we're looking at being in the mountains, you know, packing out, doing the hard things, having the right gear makes that doing something hard more comfortable and therefore you're able to go longer, hunt harder, go further and, and find that success. So, you know, if you're looking at upgrading some gear, I always suggest Stone Glacier pack is probably at the top of the list of things to kind of look at because, you know, anytime there's a pinch point of like a pain point when it comes to hiking through the mountains, boots and packs, like, that's where most of it comes because those are the actual physical contacts to your body with both the ground and then what you're carrying in and what you're carrying out. Not just your gear, but the meat that comes out as well. They have a ton of great options on there, you know, varying sizes. My, my kind of suggestion is look, you're looking to go one and done, get a larger pack, you can always shrink it down and like the sky talus was a 6900 or whatever, it's kind of my go to. I also really like the approach pack as well as like a day pack, so you can't fit as much stuff in it. But it's a good, like if I'm just kind of running gun and I've got, got, I kind of run both of those packs depending on the hunt. But honestly, like a bigger pack is, is sometimes better because you can, you can shrink it down, but then you got more room to expand to pack things out and especially for those longer backcountry hunts and things like that, awesome options. They've also got, you know, plenty of other gear like tents and sleeping bags and, and all that other stuff that you might need for a backcountry hunt or, or any even just like day hunting, getting out, you know, front country hunting. A lot of great options there. So as always, you guys can use code livewild, get free shipping on allstone Glacier stuff. And I also have a lot of their stuff in my store. Remy warren.com so you can, you can check it out there as well if you guys want. I always appreciate the support on the, on the site and on the store, we're continually adding new things. Some of the stuff that you guys recommend, some stuff that, you know, I find I'm like, man, I really like this other to throw that on our on our website. So we're continually adding new stuff there. And as we get into the hunting season, get you guys more geared up and prepped, I'm trying to add some more things that just help you with the the prep and other stuff so you can find stuff like my wilderness athlete drink mixes and other things which are good, not just in the field, but as you're training as well to kind of get you ready for the mountain. So you check that out. Remy warren.com and as always, on Stone Glacier, you can use code livewild.