Remy Warren (0:00)

Foreign I'm Remy Warren and I've lived my life in the wild as a professional guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days perfecting my craft. I want to give that knowledge to you. In this podcast we relive some of my past adventures as I give you practical hunting tips to make you more successful. Whether you're just getting started or a lifelong hunter, this podcast will bring you along on the hunt and teach you how to live Wild. This podcast is brought to you by Mountain Tough and Yeti. A lot of the tactics I talk about here require you to be in top physical shape. So I partnered with Mountain Tough to help get you ready for the mountain with their science based hunter specific training app. You'll get in shape and mentally tough able to tackle any hunt. Because we really believe this will help you be more successful. As a listener to this podcast, we're giving you six free weeks to get you started. Just use code livewild Foreign welcome back to Live Wild podcast, everyone. Now this week we're going to be diving into the modes of hunting, transportation, everything from two legged to four legged to things on wheels. We're going to look at the different options and some of the benefits and drawbacks to each way you can access your hunting area. Now, we've been over the last, say, month or so really diving into hunt planning, hunt preparation for this upcoming season. And we're going to look at how we access areas based on how we can get around. So that allows you to plan your hunt based on your mode of access, the places that you can reach, things that you can effectively hunt, maybe even that hunt planning of how am I going to get to where I'm going to hunt? So we're going to look at all of that stuff today and dive into kind of the nitty gritty of the different ways to get around in hunting country. So let's take it to the trail and talk transportation. So how you access an area is a really large part of your hunt plan. So let's say you drew, let's call it a mule deer tag in the state of Nevada, and you live, I don't know, in Arkansas. Okay, Kansas, whatever. You're going to come out to somewhere you've never been, maybe you've been plying for years and you're like, all right, well there's a lot of public land. I pull out my maps. Sweet. There's like all these mountain ranges and all these roads all over. And then, you know, maybe you've got like a, I don't Know, sedan type car? No, we'll just say, like, you've got a, you've got a truck that you hunt out of and you drive it there and you get to where you want to go and you realize, like, this truck is not suitable for where I'm trying to get into. Okay, there's all this country that people are driving on, but, man, that looks like jeep or side by side only. Or maybe you got a hunt in Wyoming or Montana, let's call it Montana, Idaho, because the wilderness rules in Wyoming. And you're like, okay, I'm gonna go into this massive wilderness complex. And you're like, okay, well, I want to hunt this basin back here, and from the trailhead it's 18 to 20 miles. Okay, are you hiking that or are you gonna find someone to take horses? Or maybe you have horses. Okay, do I take my horses in for this particular hunt? Or maybe you've got a hunt scenario where, hey, there's a trail going in there, but it looks like you can drive an E bike there. Okay, so what are the, what are the options of how we're going to hunt this area? And so this week I really wanted to talk about those different modes of transportation, so I'm going to kind of list them off here. It's not everything. Some of it will get kind of lumped in together. But I think that the interesting thing is like, okay, there, there are different ways to get around, different vehicles for hunting. You don't need any or all of them. Maybe some people have all of these, some people have none of these. You know, some people rent a car, show up, and we're, we're going to hike in, and that's how we're building our hunt plan. But that's how you build your hunt plan. You, you plan how you can get around and how you can access certain areas based on whatever mode of transportation you have access to and available to you. And so we're going to talk about those, and we're going to talk about the benef and kind of like the cost benefit of different modes of transportation. So you, you've got your hiking, your legs, everybody's got that for the most part. You know, maybe your mobility is limited, right? So you got, you're gonna have to look at every mode of transportation and the limitations, how you're getting into an area. It could be. And what we're also talking about, one thing I don't want people to confuse is like, we're talking about UTVs side by sides, right? And then like, oh, well, you're, we're talking about how we're accessing the hunting areas in the way that we're getting around within those areas. So it could be a vehicle to where we're going to hike from. I mean for the most part the mode of transportation, even when it's horses, you're, you're using the horses to get into the area. Yeah, you can be hunting from or around, but for the most part you're going to get off, you're going to hike, you're going to glass, you're going to hunt. You're still accessing the hunting area though, through a horse. So we're talking about the mode of transportation within those units. So here are the categories I've got just outlined. We've got our UTVs, which would be our side by sides. We got our ATVs which would be, you know, four wheelers. You got E bikes, then you have dirt bikes. You have e dirt bikes. We'll throw that in with dirt bikes. Those are pretty popular now. Then you've got your four legged modes of transportation, primarily horses. You've also got mules. And then these aren't really modes of transportation, but they're more ways of carrying stuff which would be llamas and pack llamas and goats and so some of this stuff I have a lot of experience with some of it. I have a little experience with some of it. I guess llamas is the only one I have no experience with and eater bikes. But I, I think that either way, like it's, it's, it'll be kind of a fun way to look at ways that we can access certain areas. Because over the years, like, I mean I grew up for many of you that have listened to this podcast, you know, you know, I grew up in the state of Nevada. Nevada has like a lot of public land. 80% of it's public. You can just pretty much go anywhere and there's roads all over and most of it like a lot of blm. Quite a bit of forest service too. Mountains are mostly forest service, a lot of BLM areas as well. And you'll see like there might be roads on maps and these roads are like a road might be just something that One guy in 1923 decided to drive his cart down, I guess whatever you want to call it vehicle or in the 60s, 70s, it's just like where somebody started to drive and then other people decided to take that same path or an area that maybe, you know, maybe it's a designated road, but it is just absolute garbage. Like it would be physically impossible to get a full size vehicle through it. There's other places that are, you know, really nice roads and you could drive 60 to 80 miles an hour on them. Unpaved roads through the valleys or whatever. Now you could go, conversely you could go to Idaho or Montana or places in Wyoming where there's a lot of logging through the mountains. And you see these like forest service roads. And for the most part, like they're very well maintained. They're gravel, but they get up to the top of the mountain. They aren't plowed or anything. But it's as. I mean they're decomposed granite. Good base roads that used that logging were built for. Logging trucks like semis used to drive on them. And so you've got like these really good roads that you can kind of get anywhere with a full size vehicle. You can park at the trail and then anything outside of that is just hiking either way. So, you know, you look at that kind of hunt and you go, well, a four wheeler here gets me nowhere. A full size vehicle doesn't get me. Or you could go to somewhere else and go, all right, the full size vehicle just barely gets me off the pavement. And then there's all this stuff that other people can access, but you need a certain other mode of transportation to access that area. Now of course you can hike and you can walk and you can get into those places which you know, I've done plenty of times. There's many hunts that I've been on where there's a lot of four wheeler roads, there's a lot of UTV roads. I didn't have either of those. But you know, whether it's because I flew there and rented a car or I just didn't have access to them, whatever. And there's places that you can find and hunt and avoid that you park where you can, you hunt where you can. But you can think about building your hunting strategy. Strategy based on the mode of transportation available to you. And the fun thing, like hunters, right? Like whether it's. If you're getting into fishing, like maybe you like ocean fishing and you would need a boat, right? For certain types of. You're like, I like to chase big tuna police. Well then you're going to need a certain kind of equipment, right? Or it's going to make it a lot easier. You can kayak out there, you can do whatever, right. There's always just different modes of transportation available for different sports. And in a lot of these, I understand Right. Like there's a big investment in a lot of these, but I'm going to talk about all of them because maybe there's people who are like, oh yeah, I was thinking about, I've got ATVs and I was thinking about upgrading to a side by side. Is that a better option or. Man, I've got a bike like a regular mountain bike. I guess I didn't put that on the in that list. Bike, bike. Okay. But maybe I'm thinking maybe an E bike's better. Maybe. Where I'm hunting there's certain regulations. So we're going to look at those modes of transportation and then how each one of them can relate to your hunt. I don't know if there is a perfect mode of transportation, but I do think that there's a lot of good options out there. So the first we're going to talk about briefly. I think we're kind of going to just highlight each of these. Maybe I'll throw in some stories of things that have gone right and wrong in the past. But we're going to talk about these different modes of transportation and then how that relates to your strategy, hunting and some of the things to look for. A question I got asked from a friend very recently. He's like, I drew a tag in Nevada and he's like, how do I know like which roads I can take with my truck and which ones aren't drivable. And to be honest, like there's sometimes you just cannot, you cannot tell till you get there. And that's the hard part. That's why there is that, that aspect of physical scouting that it's good to have that E scouting plan. It's good, but sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. And some of it is boots on the ground knowledge. Like, I know there's an area that I've hunted and you're like, look at all these roads. Look at all this access. There's access to this top of this mountain, all this stuff, right? Roads everywhere. And like it was so rocky. You were going like it was a tag my brother had. It was so rocky, it was like to go a mile, it was just faster to walk. We ended up just parking and just walking the roads. And yeah, sure, somebody with a four wheeler or a side by side could have easily gone in there and driven past whatever, but didn't matter because like it was faster to walk than drive. Like the road so rough. And that happens a lot. So the first one we're going to talk about is your truck or, you know, a vehicle. Everybody, like guys that, it's just all they do is hunt, think, live, breathe, hunting. Their daily driver is their hunting rig generally. Or they have a rig that's designed for hunting. Maybe it's an old truck. Whatever it's set up, it's set up to. It's got good tires, it's got, you know, room to, you know, generally like, I mean, Tacomas are pretty awesome. Jeeps are pretty awesome for ultimate like off road type terrain where you can kind of get them in places that you can't get other vehicles. But you know, for me, like I've kind of always had more of a full size pickup because I need it for other stuff too. Like I need the bed space. It's also nice to have like, you know, extra room to store and bring things on the hunt. Now the downside to a full size vehicle, like I think no matter what, like unless you're flying and renting a vehicle, which I've done a lot. Like I've shown up to on hunts with, I don't know, like I try to get the air quotes, SUV version or something often. Like I'll try to rent something that the tires are never good enough to go anywhere. Even if you rent like the more off road type vehicles or a truck. But I mean I've like literally had coolers in the. What is it, like a Dodge Caravan or something like that? Like a, it's like a SUV almost minivan looking thing. I know. Like I actually got that thing stuck a couple times. I've rented some vehicles and taken places I probably shouldn't. Hopefully Avis isn't or Hertz isn't listening to this, but for the most part, like most people that go on a hunt, if you're driving somewhere, you're taking whatever truck you have. Most hunters or have a truck of some kind or like I use, you know, I've used other vehicles, like four runners, Jeeps, man, I've used about everything. I often on most of my hunts I like try to borrow a vehicle of someone from my family, which little secret, you know, only because I try to, I try to like switch around vehicles a little bit just so people don't recognize my vehicle or whatever. Be like, oh, this is a good spot. Because sometimes the place I'm hunting aren't a good spot. It's just somewhere where no one else is hunting. And so I do, I do do that. And I've got really good family that also has like good vehicles. So they are Always cool with me borrowing and I reciprocate, let them borrow mine if they need. But I've probably hunted in, I don't know, a lot of the different makes and models out there. I've tried. I've at least taken on a hunt some point or been. Been on a hunt with someone, with whatever. So I don't need to go into like the specifics of each and every model of truck and what have you. But the nice thing about trucks is, especially if you're like planning a base camp, you're going a long ways. You've got a full size pickup, you can carry a lot of stuff. You have plenty of room for bringing your animal back out. You have room for all your gear. And if you need to tow something, you can. It's also a comfortable ride and it's probably what most people have or their primary vehicle doesn't have to be a full size truck. Could be a 4Runner, it could be whatever, whatever your vehicle is that you hunt in, that's the majority of hunters out there. You access the area via that vehicle to where you can get. If the vehicle doesn't make it up like the roads or whatever, then it's on foot from there. And now we will talk about a couple of the other modes of transportation that can, you know, change that, like bikes, e bikes, whatever. But that's your primary mode. It's a really good option, especially if you're like, hey, I'm making a base camp, a mobile base camp. I'm driving to where I'm camping. You can have kind of a more comfortable camp. My truck is set up as like a mobile camp. I've got like a, a go, fast camper, rooftop tent. I've got my decked drawers underneath. I've got everything organized. It's. It's my favorite way to travel to a hunting unit. Now for me, I kind of have my truck set up as a base camp and I don't hunt out of it as much because I, I like to get to the place. I used to just use my, like I had a, you know, Ford F150 or whatever and that was like my primary hunting vehicle and everything. And I just beat the crap out of it, you know, like, just rally it. But then like the vehicles are so expensive now, like the repair and now everything's computers, you know, like my old truck I still have, but I liked it because it's metal and like mechanical. You could fix something on it if it went, if it messed up, something went wrong, like me and my buddy Chris were joking the other day because we were in my new truck and I was just laughing about how we were in my old truck and we literally got out of a situation with some found baling wire and like hay twine and were able to get back on the road just by like fixing a few things that had broken and limp it to the road. And then we had to get it towed from there. But like, most of the problems I've had with my new truck are all computer problems. And I just, it's like I can't fix that. At least I don't know how. So I don't know why I'm going down this rabbit hole. I like to do it when I talk vehicles. But you know, for me what I've been doing is I drive like a, I'll drive my truck. That's my base camp. It's set up for camping. I've got, like I said, the deck drawers with everything's ready to rock and roll. And then I've been utilizing side by side or UTV for me lately because I think it's, it's just a better ride. It allows me to kind of access more areas as opposed to like a four wheeler where it's just one person. It's harder to put your gear on in inclement weather, you know. And I've kind of gone through a bunch of different types of side by sides right now. I actually just. Well, this is good timing because I actually just picked up a new Kawasaki Ridge. I kind of always like all upgrade or whatever and get the, the latest and greatest and trade up or what have you if I can. But I've been, I've seen so many good reviews about these Kawasakis and I ended up just picking one up very recently and just because like the comfort level of it with the family, because it's also one of those things too where it's like, all right, my kids love going out. We take it out on the weekends, we go scouting in it. It's nice because, you know, I've always, you know, in the past used ones that didn't like it was like a roof but no windshields, whatever, which sucked. It was like very seasonal. It wasn't good in the late season, like in the winter and it was like really hot and dusty in the summer. And I used a friend's last year that has like the fully enclosed cab. Like they're like mini trucks now at this point. They've got ac, they've got power windows, they've got the backup cams, they've got all the bells and whistles. I mean, is it too much? I don't know. I really enjoy it and it's nice with the kids and then I get a little more use out of it, seasonality wise. I've been driving around scouting and stuff this weekend and I'm excited to hunt it like. And also they're just getting better at being more aggressive off road where I feel very confident in it, in a lot of the stuff that I wouldn't drive like a side by side of 10 or 15 years ago. Like how they've progressed, like the clearance is better, the ride's better. Like everything about it is, I mean, as good as it gets. And, and it's very specific to that kind of certain kind of terrain, off road type vehicle. You know, I, I would use it. It's roads that, you know, there's a lot of places too, right, where hey, you can't use a vehicle of a certain width. That's in more like logging country like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, where they maybe have gated roads. You might hear about that. Colorado has that as well. And then some are accessible by anything under let's say 63 inches and then some are like under whatever, 30, 40 inches, something like that for. So it's like four wheeler roads, UTV, side by side roads, full size vehicle roads. Okay. So some of this you can find like you can actually see what you know, a lot of forest service roads or other things like you can go. BLM is the hardest to figure out. If there's a restriction in a certain area, you can look it up. Like on Onx you can turn on the roads layer, you can click on the road and it'll tell you if there's road restrictions. So some of it will be like year round, four by four, high clearance. Okay, those are, that generally means like you can pretty much get around it or through it with like a standard truck. You know, it might be rough, it might not. Sometimes those are like great roads and sometimes they're pretty rough, but you may not know until you get on it. And then there's others that just say like closed from this date to this date or under it. It will have like different restrictions. So when you're e scouting you can, you can highlight a few of these different areas and you can say, oh, okay. This is the mode of transportation that's allowed here. This is a trail. And even on the trails, this trail allows, you know, two wheeled, motorized. This trail allows horse only, horse and foot only. This trail is, allows, you know, four wheel but has to be smaller than this width. So, okay, that's a four wheeler or a, you know, not a side by side. So there's ways to look at your maps and say like, okay, this area that I want to access. Here's some options for access. Now you can also tailor your hunt toward, you know, maybe the type of access and vehicle you have. I've got a, I've got a side by side. My plan is I, I try to plan my hunt based off of this mode of transportation. So I'll find an area that's centralized within a zone where, okay, even if it's something I can take the full size vehicle in, I'd rather just pull my truck pretty close to where I'm not going to beat everything up, especially with the trailer. I set up that as my base camp and then I, I'm gonna use my Kawasaki to go between hunting spots to get to the glassing knobs, to get to the trailhead, to go from there. So I'm just going out from my base camp every day with the side by side and that's how I'm moving around. I'm putting the extra rough miles on the side by side and not on my truck. If you don't have one, then you can just, you know, use your truck for that other mode of transportation or find another mode of transportation so the next mode of transportation. So the benefit of the side by side is especially like a lot of them now it can be as comfortable as a vehicle. You can access some roads that you cannot access with a full size vehicle. It's a little bit easier navigating on some small roads, good turning around. It can be a lot easier than other vehicles to get out if you do slide or get stuck. Like they've got winches on them, they're lighter. You can kind of move them around and maneuver them really well. Some of the advantages too of depending on the different models and things, like you can have heaters, you can have windshields, you can have comfort, you can also, you know, go bare bones and, and not have that. But you have a lot of them have like a bed for utility. So there's a little bit more room. You could take people with you. We love it for like summer stuff, doing stuff with the kids and the family outside of hunting season. I mean, I put a lot of miles on a, on a side by side scouting and throughout the season. Now the drawbacks are you need to tow it so you, you need a, like a Full size truck to bring it, right? Like it's an extra thing, a trailer. Trailer is kind of nice sometimes because you can throw a big cooler on it or whatever, depending on where you're going, you know. But it, it does increase your footprint and limit the amount of places you can get with your, your truck setup. So then the next option would be the atv. The ATV is awesome because there's other additional roads that you can access. It's good because, you know, you're kind of open to the air in a way. You know, driving around, looking around. I've hunted off ATVs a lot in the past in terrain where it's just way too rough for a vehicle, but works for an atv. The other nice thing is you can load them in the back of your truck if you don't have like a topper or a camper shell, which limits your footprint. Like I have a buddy that he's got a Tacoma for his truck. He puts his ATV in the back and he rips, he gets into the spot. If he gets into a place where he can't get the truck, he takes the atv. Or if he's by himself and his truck breaks down, he has another mode of transportation to actually get out of where he's at. That's only really necessary in places like really remote parts of Nevada, maybe Idaho, wherever, where it's like, yeah, there's some places you can get into and it could be days, months before anybody comes by. So it just allows you like another mode of access to get into some places. The drawback to them, they aren't necessarily. I mean, I've seen, I've been bundled up like this place that I used to guide in a long time ago. It was like we accessed it by four wheelers, ATVs. And it was just like whether it was snowing, raining, whatever, we were on it, we just dressed appropriately and man, did we freeze. It was cold. But you know, it's not necessarily as all weather and without that enclosed cab and other things. So there's that seasonality or just like having to tough it out, which is fine. You know, the, the major drawback for me is storage space and gear. Like what we used to do a lot was mount like a, like a yeti go box type box or something. The yeti go boxes are better because they're like, they seal and just ratchet strap that to the back and then you've got somewhere to store your pack and gear. Wear your pack and put some gear there, you know, strap your bow or Rifle to the pack, you know, putting stuff on. I don't know if I've told this. I've had one experience where I was driving the four wheeler up to the top. It's like opening morning and I get to the top and my bow was on like the bow rack in the front. And probably one of the sticks from in front, like a branch spliced my bus cable to my bow. So I got to the top. The main string was there, but the bow is like essentially inoperable, which sucked. Right. I was thinking this is the last time I didn't use string protectors. And then I've also had it where it's like bouncing around and the sights come off because it. It just delivers a lot of like, even though there's suspension on it, delivers a lot of shock to whatever the. The mounting system is to hold it. Like, I haven't found a good one yet. I think probably your body's the best, like strapped to your pack or something like that. So that's what I do. But it's also like cumbersome and kind of a pain in the butt. However, there's a lot of benefits to ATVs. The cost is cheaper than side by sides, but also like, you can access a ton of country. The other downside is it's hard to have another person with you. Right. It's like the safety factor as well. This is. This is a kind of a funny story. I think I've told this story before, but I think it was like a. I don't know if it's a site, a four wheeler or a three wheeler. We'll just, we'll call it a four wheeler. It could have been a three wheeler, which don't get a three wheeler. Like they're so dangerous. They just flip all the time. But I was, I was hunting this spot. I was actually in Montana and I was guiding and. And my client shot this mule deer. And it was below this like kind of like eight. There's like a road that you could drive your like ATVs on or whatever. And we just hiked. We part. We were parked in the bottom and so he shot this mule deer. And there was this guy that like was just going, you know, just like recreating. He had his little dog in the. In the. He had like a little, I don't know what, like a Jack Russell. I think it was in like a. In a milk crate on the front. And he was like an older guy that I don't think, like couldn't walk really. And so he heard the shot, and he was up on the corner of the road. And he's like, we're in, you know, our blaze orange and at the mule deer. And he's like, hey, how's it going? And we're like, good. Yeah, we got a buck. You know, we were, I don't know, 250 yards below this little road. He's like, oh, where are you at? And I was like, oh, we're parked in the bottom. And he's like, let me. Let me give you a hand. I'll come and get it. And I'm like, no, no, we're good. You know, I'm fine packing now. It's all downhill. No. No city. It's probably, like, 65. He's probably 70 years old. Had to have at least been 70 years old. And I'm like, man, this is. I don't. So he, like, drives down the. The, like, mountain. I'm like, h. Dude, this. This guy's going to kill himself. But it's like, this ridge. And he, like, drives down the ridge. I think there was, like, an old, like, a really overgrown road there or what have you. But he drives to us, and he's like, let's throw it on. And I'm like, no, it's okay. Like, but he's already down here. I'm like, I don't know, man. Like, maybe just get. I'm like, I already had plan. Like, I'm. I'm gonna pack this thing out, you know? Like, it's not a big deal. No, no, no. So he gets off, and he starts trying to, like, lift it up himself. Like, he's very. He's very intent on helping us. And I'm like, all right, whatever, dude. I'm like, I don't think this is a good idea. So he. He. He just will not stop. And I'm like, I don't think there's any way that we are not gonna. This guy, he's already here. He wants to help us. So I put it on, and I'm like, we get it on the back. And he's already got, like, a strap. He's like, this is how I do it. You know? I do it all the time. Okay, so he's got it on the back, and we put the deer on the back, and he goes to go, and there was too much. Like, it was too much weight on the back. And the. The. The ATV flips backwards, and he has his little dog in the basket on the front, and he catapults that Dog, like, I mean, the dog goes over my head and I'm trying to, like, get some weight, like, trying to catch it, but also, you know, trying to help this guy and, like, get him off. So I don't know what happened. He ends up rolling down. I grab the. The four wheeler so it doesn't fall back on him. So it's just like sitting up on his back, two wheels. And he's like, kind of confused. Like, oh, man, that didn't work. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. You know, we'll. We'll take it from here. It's all good. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's probably a good idea. And ends up getting him upright and like, thanks for your help. You know, don't anyone to get hurt. And he drives off like, it just. It was like, I don't know how much time of mucking around, but that dog catapulting over the top of us was. I'm glad no one was hurt. Like, it definitely could have ended really bad. Like, he could have been stabbed or. Or what have you with a tine or anything. Like, it can be dangerous or. I think I was just talking about, yeah, two people and like, you know, safety first, right? Like, don't overload it. But that was just one thing that I always think about when it comes to, like, ATVs and what have you. Is that one guy just trying to help out and like, you just didn't want to disappoint this old boy because he really wanted to help. And this dog just catapulting out of the. The milk basket in the front. But they can be a really good way to get around. There's a lot of benefit and a lot of area that you can access when you're e scouting. You want to pinpoint those. Like, let's say you have an ATV or side by side and you go, okay, I've got one of these. This can be my mode of transportation. Is this a hunt where this is going to benefit me, or is it a hunt where it doesn't even matter? Right? Like, all. You could go look at the maps and say, every road here goes to a trailhead and every road, you know, from where I want to be, it's like full size vehicle. Unless you want to do like the base camp thing like I like to do, and not have to worry about moving that all the time as your primary mode of transportation. Then you go, okay, well, maybe I don't even need it for this hunt. Or you could go, wow, there's a Lot of places that I don't know if I'll be able to get around in a full size vehicle. Okay. Taking a side by side or an ATV is going to open up a lot of access to me where I'm not spending my time trying to get into a spot when I have access to it based on this particular mode of transportation. Now, the next, you know, we're going from that four wheel to down to two wheels. So we're going to talk mountain bikes, E bikes, we'll even go dirt bikes and E dirt bikes. We can kind of lump them in. The mountain bikes and E bike thing is kind of an interesting topic, right? Because I think a lot of people think, like, it depends on where you are, whether you can use an E bike as a mountain bike. And I think in for hunting purposes, a lot of places you can't. Like, if it's non motorized, I could be wrong. You might just want, like, if you've got an E bike, I don't know. This is me just talking. Don't quote me on this. Right. But I always err on the side of extreme caution. Like, if an area is a gated road that says non motorized use, I believe that an E bike cannot go on that road. I know that there's been, like some stuff in national parks and things, but from what I've gathered and talked to different forest service and whatever, I think for hunting purposes, if it says non motorized, you can't use an E bike on it, but you can use a regular, like, mountain bike. I've done a lot of hunts, or I've done a number of hunts using mountain bikes, and some of them have panned out really well, some have not. There's this one hunt, I'll tell you one where it panned out, one where it didn't. Well, some of them are hard. Like, if you don't ride a bike a lot, it's tough. If you ride a bike a lot, it's a really good way to get around. This one particular hunt, I had this area that I wanted to for spring bears access. And I'm like, all right. I was walking in every day. It was a trail. And then so my plan was, like, ride up the trail to, like the wilderness boundary, park the bike, and then hike from there. So instead of having to hike like the three or four miles to where I wanted to get to and then hike another three or four miles, I could ride my bike, park it, and then hike once before the boundary, because you can't ride bicycle, like, so Even wilderness. It's non motorized, but you can't use it because of mechanical. So you can't ride bikes in, in wilderness. But this. I was like, okay. And so I, I didn't. I have like my. An old mountain bike. You have like duct taped handles and whatever. I had my pack, all my stuff, and I'm like, all right, I've been up this trail a lot, but I had never been on it on bike. And I'm like, when you aren't thinking in terms of bike, you're like, yeah, it's a good trail. It was a good trail. It's a great trail for hiking. So I start riding my bike and right off the bat I'm like, I'm riding on the trail. And while the trail had been used for like horses and stuff, and there was like, it had worn down a bit. So I'm riding the bike. I've got my gear on, I got my pack on, everything strapped to my back. I'm gonna go up this canyon and get in here. I just thought, like, it'll save time in the morning so I could sleep a little bit longer. And you're like, well, why don't you just camp up there? But I was hunting a lot of different areas. I don't know, it was just. This was what I was doing, right? So I'm riding, I'm pedaling, and I'm not. I bet you I'm 400 yards from the truck and I am pedaling and I've got my headlamp on and I'm going, and I'm on the trail and I go to pedal and the pedal comes down and I smash into the ground on it. Because the, the pedals were actually like, the trail was cut deep enough into the ground where the ground and the pedals met and you know, like stops me, I fall off, but I catch myself on my feet and I'm like, oh, dude, that that sucked. You know, so, okay, so I like, all right, now I gotta pay. Like, this is might be harder than I think. So I get back going. I'm walking it for a bit and there's a nice, like, section of downhill I get on that I'm riding pretty good. And then I've kind of got. I'm probably like a mile or so from the truck. And I'm not a great. Oh, you could see I'm not a great bike rider. And I know there's like my brother, he's great on a mountain bike. I am not that guy. And so I'm Riding, I think. I don't know if it's dark still. I don't think it's. It's kind of like twilight at this point. You know, I kind of, like, thought that I was going to be able to cover more ground faster. Like, it was pretty slow go, and you're working pretty hard. So I get to this part. There's like a. It's kind of a similar deal where it's, like, rutted a little bit and maybe like, a root in the thing, and I hit it and I go over the front of that bike and just, like, you know, barrel in the dirt. Scorpion crapping my teeth. I'm, like, checking, just make sure nothing's broken, like. And I just think to myself, this is so stupid. And I ended up walking it and, like, leaving the bike, hiking the rest of the way and, like, not doing that again. And then, you know, I, I've used, like. So my thought was, okay, bikes have a place. But I liked them on gated logging roads that are like, you know, certain times of year, you can drive a vehicle, not necessarily on trails. Like, I'm not good enough to, to do the mountain bike on the trail. And so I had. This is a fun one. I, I, I used them quite a bit, but I had some. I was hunting with a couple guys, and we spotted these elk, like, into this zone. It was like a big zone where there was no. You couldn't drive a vehicle. But it was like, like a lot like a gated logging road. And it was like, miles if we wanted to hike there. We spotted these elk, and it was like we'd seen them there, and it was, I don't even know, like, where they popped out at. Probably 15 miles or something on a road. Just like, lot of long, maybe, maybe 10. I don't know. It was like a long ways, short days, end of the season, you know, like, into, like, November time frame. And so I thought was like, okay, well, we don't have time today, but what if they're. Let's go, glasses. First thing in the morning, we'll grab three mountain bikes, and if they're there, we'll bike in because it's, like, downhill to where they're at. And so we do that, and we're biking in, and before where we got to where the boat, like, we actually bumped an elk on the way in. And we're cruising pretty good because it's mostly downhill. I, you know, the, the getting out was actually pretty tough. But, like, for me, the guys, the other two guys had Biked a bit and so, or at least one of them had. And so we were going and I'm in the front and I know where I want to park and hike up because I've been in there, you know, I've walked in there multiple times. But I'm like, it's such a, such a grind. Like it's. You just, you're like, it's automatically a 20 mile day whether you get something or not. And so we. I'm about to where I want to go and I look off to the right and I see antler tips. And I just like slowly stop and put the bike down quick. And I just like get on the ground. I'm laying down and these elk, like we, we rolled up on them. I mean they can't be more than, I don't know, 80 yards, under 100 yards, I would say. And so the guy that was with me, like, I wave him up and he like crawls up and we're like on the, like, you know, the old logging road. And so I'm like, okay, like crawl up and shoot one of those. And so you like, he's like crawling up and I don't know, I don't know what happened. Like it was one of those where we, we kind of gave him, we gave him shit quite a bit because we're like, dude, all you had to do is sit up and shoot one of these elk. They're like 60, 70 yards at this point. Like he's. And he just kept crawling in, I think. I don't know if he was planning on. We were. We always joke like, dude, were you planning on knifing him or what? And there was a couple nice six points and like it was a bachelor group of bulls just bedded. And I don't know, we don't know what happened. Like, you know, you, you, you make some good play. I think he was just like trying to crawl up and get a good shot laying down. And so he's like, he kept not being able to see, but it was like they were just right there and the wind shifted. Like it, it would have worked out too. Like he probably would have shot one at 20 yards. I guess. The wind, the wind shifted, the bulls ran off and that was the end of that. But it worked out. Like we got in there, you know, we were quiet. They, we there. It's pretty good way to travel. And then we just had to bike our way out. It started snowing on the way back out, which made it difficult. I was pretty smoked by the Time we got out, I thought I was like, for me, I think I would have rather hike because I wasn't in good bike shape. But the guys that are in good bike shape, it's an awesome way to transport. Now after that, I've used this a lot more, which would be like an E bike. I primarily use E bikes in areas where, hey, let's say you've got, you know, you don't want to take a trailer. You've got a camper shell. You need a secondary mode of transportation. An E bike's awesome because you can throw it in the back of your truck and you know, you can charge it off your truck. Depending on your vehicle, you can throw it in the back of your truck. You could even like park your truck at the bottom, ride it to the top and hike down and then go pick it back up. Like it gives you, especially if you're by yourself, another mode of transportation to go point A to point B. There's also areas where it's like, okay, you can use a motorized vehicle, but maybe you can't take a full size vehicle. That's. I've used it a lot on those roads. I've used them a lot more in the springtime when I'm like spring bear hunting and just covering miles on logging roads because they're quiet and inefficient. Now I think I mostly just use my side by side if it's the same. If, like, I can use a side by side, I'll use that. But it is a. It's an efficient way to hunt. Like, the price point to entry is not. Not crazy, you know, compared to other things. And, you know, you've got your backpack on. You just wear everything. I've actually got a trailer for mine, so that's also an option. Like a little trailer. Dude, I'm gonna. I'm gonna share one more fun E bike story because. So my dad. I've probably told this story before. I should just tell this as like a. A separate story. But maybe I've told this. It's hard for me to remember sometimes what stories I've told on the podcast or what other podcasts. But this one's funny because. So I. My dad was bear hunting and he wanted. I can't remember what it was. So I was like, I had an E bike and a rifle. So I was like, he showed up and I'm like, yeah, if you want to go bear hunting, you can. I'm going to go. I was doing something else. I was like, you can take The E bike. And there is a trailer for it, you know, if you want the trailer. And then I gave him my gun, but I was like, hey, the only other gun that I have doesn't have a sling. And he's like, ah, no problem. No worries. So he has his. The rifle. This is borrowing this rifle on mine. He's got the E bike and he's got the trailer. Well, he rides up to the top, and I can't remember if he saw a bear or not. He gets to the top and then he comes back down. So he's got. Because he doesn't have a sling for the rifle. He's got strapped his pack, and his pack is in the trailer thing. It's like a little cart. And so he goes. And he went up there quite a ways, like a logging road. He gets to the bottom, like back to where he started. And he looks back and he's like, I think I'm forgetting something. And he didn't hook the trailer up right. And so he's missing the trailer, which has my, like, brand new rifle and his. All of its optics and the trailer to the bike. And he's just like sweating bullets now. He's like, oh, my God. Because it was a very steep road. And he's like, all he's picturing is like this. Never finding this packing because it was like, very steep road. He's like, it. That trailer could have gone off the road anywhere. And just like, either I'm not gonna find it in the five miles that I rode or whatever, but he rode all the way back, thankfully. I think it probably had, like, at some point, maybe he stopped and it came unhooked because we're just sitting there. But he, like, the way that he tells the story is so funny because you're just so weird. And like, when I gave him the gun, I have very explicit direction. I'm like, okay, you don't have a sling. Like, don't set the gun down. You know, like, don't forget the gun. I just like hammering it home. Like, don't forget. You know, when you aren't used to something and it's like awkward to carry, you set it down a lot. Every time you go to glass, you set it down and then you walk off. I'm like, you just make sure the gun comes back. And he not only leaves the gun on the mountain, but the entire trailer and pack with it. Thankfully, he found it all. And it was just like a funny story. But it's a. I mean, aside from that, it's a. That was a user error, but it's a. It's a good way to access a lot of country. My brother and I have used them a lot. If I'm hunting by myself and I'm just going like light and fast, it's an awesome, like easy thing that I can have like on a bike, rack on the back of the vehicle and like park at a trailhead or whatever and right up the road, park it in another spot uphill and then hike down, you know, lock the bike up up top somewhere, hike a bridge down, go back to my truck, drive up, pick up the. The. The bike or whatever. And there's some other places where, hey, you can use them on and access certain roads certain times of the year. So it's a really good, good option. Now the same thing can kind of be said. Dirt bikes are a little bit bigger. I've got a buddy, you know, I've done some hunting and scouting on dirt bikes. I'm not great, like, I think I'm just. I'm always looking around too much and I like having four wheels. I think like for something that's powered like that. But I have a buddy that there's certain trails that are horse trails that you can use dirt bikes, e bikes, bicycles on. So it's like, all right. To have that extra power my dad uses, he's got like a two wheeled, two wheel drive dirt bike kind of thing. I guess it's more like a. Yeah. I don't know what they call them, but it's like two wheel drive where like both the front and the back turns. But even just like. I mean, I've scouted off of just regular dirt bikes and my buddy this year came, helped me on my moose hunt and he uses like an eater bike and thing rips, man. He's just like. He actually showed up when we were hunting somewhere else and he was scouting a different area. And I just see someone kind of flying through the desert like, dude, what's up? What's this guy doing? And it was my buddy on his, like, he's like, no, this is electric. Like he's. He takes it on trails that most people take horses on. The benefit is you can throw it in the back of your truck. He just charges it like he's got. Carries a couple extra batteries. It's, you know, pretty light compared to, you know, regular dirt bike. And he doesn't have to feed horses all year and maintain horses while he's in his camp. Right. He like goes into places where you could take Horses. And I know there's going to be people who are like, I ride my horse and I hate those guys, right? But it doesn't matter. It's a mode of transportation. It's legal for certain places and that's what we're talking about. So it's like, okay, that's his, his way to access certain places. And he gets off and hikes and hunts from there. And because of that, you know, you can go on, you can scout, you can click on some of the roads and say like, oh, this area, this trail allows two wheel drive motored vehicles up until this point or during this time of year. Maybe some of it too is like, you can access that stuff for scouting, but once the season starts, it closes it down. So there's a lot of that to look into. Now we're going to talk about one that I really like, the four legged animal way you think about a classic elk hunt, man. What is the iconic western elk hunt? It's loading up a pack string, heading into the mountains, sleeping in your wall tent, cooking on your stove, having a fire at night, going out in the wilderness, some horses to pack out your elk. Horses are really awesome for elk hunting. Now there's a couple of things that I think about for horse access, right? You either have them or you don't. It's a big investment. I currently don't have horses. I have, you know, had acts like access to horses through our outfitting business for a long time, but I currently don't have horses. I keep like teasing the fact of like, all right, we're gonna get some pack horses and mules and, and that kind of stuff. I have access to, to some when I need them. And I've also been on a lot of trips with horses that were other people's or borrowed or rented. So that is an option, right? Like sometimes you can, you can, there's somebody that will rent horses. There's people that, you know, you can do a trip, maybe it's a guided trip with horses. There's a, like options for getting into an area with horses where maybe you don't have to own the horses. The thing about horses is like, there is that learning curve of, you know, how to handle them if you don't know. Like, it's not just something that you just get into, right? But I will say like, horses can be an awesome way to access certain areas. I've done some incredible hunts on horses. I've done quite a few hunts in Alaska with horses, which was pretty cool. Like, and there's some hunts in Alaska. I wish I had horses. But just to. To access country where you're like, you're taking them 20, 30 miles into an area there's. It's always an adventure with horses. Like, I've had a lot of rodeos in my day. Like, whether it's just a single. Like a lot of the stuff that I would do for horses would be like, hike in, kill something, go back, get the horses, ride the horse in and a pack and like, lead some pack horses. Just because, like, the thing about horses is if you don't ride them all the time, you kind of got to be in horse shape, right? Like, if you're going to go on a horse hunt and you don't own horses, you should find some way to ride a horse or maybe just sit on a barrel a lot and bounce around because you like, you're. Your knees and the inside of your legs get sore if you aren't used to it. If you, if you like ride a little bit, it's just like anything, like anything movement you aren't used to, you know, gets you sore. But here's some awesome things about horses, right? Like it's. There's that kind of iconic quiet and like just in with the animals I've been on. I wouldn't say, I don't know, probably it's hard to. It's hard to say, like, what percentage of my hunts are with horses. But every year I do, you know, a couple of hunts with horses. It's always nice to have somebody there that is maybe like gonna help take care of the horses. I would say, like somebody in camp that's. That's maybe just like, okay, we're gonna feed and water the horse and take care of their horses. I've done it always where you don't have that guy and you do, right? Or maybe it's like, you know, sometimes it's like, it's a good one where you can convince someone in your family, an older member of your family to come on the hunt too, because like, hey, you can come in, we can hunt together and we got horses. And if you just want to help take care of the horses, you know, like, I know a lot of people, they're like, they don't necessarily aren't as interested in the hunting, but they love to help out. Be a camp Jack, take care of the horses, have a good time, be in camp with everyone. Those are the best friends to have, right? Like, those are great. The thing about horses or mules or whatever is you do have to take care of them. And sometimes that does take away from the hunting. Now, the benefit to it is, you know, the added kind of ambiance of what you're doing and how in the place you can get into, you can take them into wilderness. They can carry stuff for you. The only, like, mode of transportation in the wilderness that isn't walking, which is awesome. So, like, wilderness places are great for that. Places where, hey, maybe the terrain is too rugged and there's no trails for any kind of motorized use. Horses are great for that even. Like, the other nice thing is for packing out, it can save your back. It can save, like, long distances. You can have a more comfortable camp. My wife actually drew a mountain goat tag this year, and that's one of the things we're considering, is, like, all right, we got to get some horses. Like, maybe we take it in. Then we can have a little bit more comfortable camp because it can be late season. We can have a warmer camp. It'll just be. You have a little bit different food or even some. Half the time I just take same dehydrated stuff and whatever. But you can have a. A stove, a tent with a stove. You know, maybe you can carry some of the gear and. And help you pack out so you can. You can hunt in places where maybe you wouldn't otherwise, because, you know, okay, I can efficiently get the animal out here. But, you know, looking at the option of horses, whether it's through an outfitter, through a service that rents them, whatever, borrow a friend's horses, go with somebody that has horses. It's an awesome way to access country in some pretty remote country as well. Now, mules, often the same. Like, you can ride mules. They can be a little more stubborn. They can. They can, but they. They can carry a lot more weight. Like, I've hunted with mules a lot as well, and I like a combination of mules and horses. Like, I prefer, personally prefer to ride a horse, but I know some bigger guys that like to ride mules. Like, I like the little horses. Like, I like the Kyrgyzstani low to the ground horses, because when you fall off, it's a short fall, and you will at some point fall off. Like, it just. There's a lot of accidents that happen. Like, there can be some train wrecks with horses, but it was all part of the rodeo, all part of the fun, you know, all part of the. You know, the guide stories of, like, just having some rodeos on the mountain. That's all part of it. Llamas, Llamas are out of this list. The only one that I actually have never used. I remember looking into it a lot. I know I've got a buddy that. And this is just secondhand, you know, like, he rents llamas. He, like, there's a service that, like, rents llamas out, and he'll take them. Nice thing. When I remember when looking at, like, getting stock or other stuff, like, a long time ago, you know, like, between horses or should I just get some llamas? Like, the cool thing was, like, guys would just load them in the back of their truck, which, you know, horses are a huge investment. You need a lot of specialized stuff. You need a trailer. You got to get to the trailhead. Like, you got to have the truck that can get to the trailhead, and you have to be able to get to the actual trailhead. Half the time. I take horses and, like, you can't get to where you started hiking from, so you got to ride them an extra 5, 6 miles, because that's where you can get the trailer to. Whereas llamas, you could maybe just throw in the back of your truck with, like, big paneling and get to the trailhead and then lead them up and pack out. I actually did. I did a stint. You know, I've used everything, like I say, except for llamas. I did a stint. I. I had. I owned some pack goats for a little bit. They were actually. They were kind of cool because they kind of, like, follow you like a dog. You just have a string of them. I had little panniers for them. They'd eat, like, they just eat whatever. You didn't have to bring much anything for them. They could just eat whatever, you know. I actually got rid of them, though, because I realized, like, everywhere that I hunted had wild sheep, and I didn't want. I. I still tested them, but I was like, man, I don't want to, like, cause a pneumonia outbreak somewhere. It was kind of. I just kind of felt weird about it, like, because they. It always seemed like they were, like, coughing or something, and it was just always in the back of my head, like, oh, no, do they have pneumonia? Am I going to give it to some wild sheep population? So I used them, but then I just kind of like, felt like everywhere that I hunted, there were wild sheep. And I just didn't want something to happen in that regard. So I actually. I actually got rid of them. But I will say, like, they were pretty cool. Like, you could. They're fairly. Like, they would. You could lead them, you Know, almost just like walk them up. You know, each person, they could carry enough of like your stuff. You could throw some extra stuff in there, they could help pack out or just even just like that. If you're hunting by yourself, you could load it in the back of your truck, even with a camper shell. Like the goat would go up in the truck, you get to the trailhead, you hike, you hunt, you get something down. Then the, you know, the goat can carry what year gear and you can carry the animal, which just helps. Like it, it saves you a trip in some instances, or you got a couple goats, you can kind of separate out the gear and load and other things. But it's always good to kind of think about what your like, modes of transportation might be. And then as you're building out your hunt plan, you can kind of link up areas that benefit you for what you're doing. So let's say you have like, I've got the, the side by side. I've got the, the. I mean, I'm, I'm, I gotta hunt. I'm planning on driving my truck out there. I've got my Kawasaki Ridge and I'm ready to like get to some hunting areas in glassing. And I look at the map and I go, okay, here's an area. And like, oh look, there's quite a few roads in this area that are, that are side by side accessible. Okay. And it looks like it, it accesses some good country where I can hike and get away from roads back here. I'm going to probably gravitate toward putting my base camp there and then using it because I have that, that mode of access. And it's like, okay, it's late season, you know, I'm set up for it. Like I've got the enclosed cab and everything, which is sweet. Like, I've got that mode of access and that's what I'm going to use and that's how I'm going to kind of access my hunt areas. Now on the flip side, there's another hunt I'm going on this year where I'm actually going to fly there and I'm not driving a vehicle. Like I'll probably. There's a lot of those roads as well. But I'm going to kind of pick my area based on do I want to be walking up a road that, you know, other people might be accessing with side by side. Well, maybe I've done that a lot and sometimes there's people on it, sometimes there's not. But hey, there's this other area where like, I can drive to this one spot. It's kind of away from trails and other stuff. I've already scouted it out and it's like, dude, I can just hike in here. And it cuts off a lot of potentially other people, people that might be accessing things by roads. I'm like, I'm just going to get back. There's no trails, there's no roads. This is like, there's. There's a good section of 4, 5, 6 miles without any roads. Sweet. And I can get. I can take my. I could practically park a rental car there. Maybe I got a, like weather dependent. I can park back a little bit and hike in a couple extra miles. But hey, I'm hunting off my back, I'm hiking in. It doesn't really matter. I don't, I don't need that secondary mode of transportation now. I've got another hunt where we're taking horses in. Like I said, we're, you know, we're going to try to take some horses into my wife's goat hunt. We're going to have a good camp. We might do that. We might just backpack it. But I think it'd be a fun way to access that country. Then we get in there, we've got our heavier gear, we've got our camp dropped off. I think I'll probably take horses in, drop them off, take them out, hike in, have the camp and then take horses back in to pull everything out. That's my plan so I don't have to take care of them during the hunt. But I don't know, maybe I'll have somebody that wants to stay and hunt around and help out. I'm not sure, but that's the plan. So we're accessing this big wilderness area with horses and it's like, yeah, we want to hunt late too. We want to hunt when they're furred up, when they got long hair. So we're going to hunt late. So it's nice to have that option of like, okay, cool, here's how we're going to access that. And then, you know, there's other hunts where you might be accessing it another way or, you know, with, with a primary vehicle or, or what have you. But I can go on there. I can. And I can start to kind of in a lot of ways plan my hunt too. Thinking about what are my potential. What are my potential ways to access the area. And some of that too. I've got planned, like a buddy that reached out and was like, hey, how do I access, you know? Or like, I'm going to hunt this particular area. I don't know what the roads are like. And I'm like, I don't know either. So you're like, I don't have access to a four wheeler. That's okay, you can still go into those areas. And you're like, okay, I can't get my truck here. Well, find those places where it doesn't matter what you got. Like you can find those little pockets where it's hard for anyone to access. And then tailor your hunt toward those areas if you're trying to get away potentially from people in crowds and maybe somebody that has another mode of transportation that can access a different area easier, easier than you. And then also don't discount the fact that like, there's a lot of places you can access and get into that maybe somebody else can. I don't know how many times I've hunted like gated roads that you could take a, like a smaller motorized vehicle on and just hike them. Because I know like, if I'm driving, I'm transporting myself, I'm getting to a place. But it's not an effective way to hunt, right? So I might hike this 3, 4, 5 mile section of actually like gated road that somebody could drive a side by side on. But I'm the one hunting because I'm looking, I'm glassing, I'm stopping and I'm hunting. So those are just all things to think about when you're planning your hunt, how you're going to access the areas and the modes of transportation available to you for that hunt. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that podcast. You know, as we're starting to think about the season, it's always good to look at that hunt planning and preparation phase and just thinking about things, whether it's how you're going to get around or how you're going to access an area based on what's available to you and maybe give you an idea or an edge when you're planning your hunt. One of the tools that I use a lot, an awesome supporter of this podcast, OnXmaps. You know, you can go in there, you can get in some of the road data and it can even tell you like any roads that have a restriction on them. Now, roads that don't have restriction, but they just aren't travelable, that can be hard to decipher. But sometimes you can go in and you can like zoom in and just see like, okay, does this like with the Satellite imagery. Does this look like a maintained good road or does it look like it's just two track? Two tracks just going out through the sagebrush. What's this look like? I mean, even that where has saved me a few times where you go, okay, this looks like a good road, you know, but then it turns into this two track. I bet that that's not as travelable. And then there's roads that, you know, they have like the Forest Service seasonality on it. They've got road restrictions in a certain area. Those areas tell you a lot more about the condition of a road, which you can just access to while e scouting. So that's always an awesome tool and feature to be able to have access to. And then as always, you guys, for those of you, you know, renewing your membership or getting a new Onyx membership if you don't have it, or upgrading to an elite membership, you can always use code livewild. You guys will get a discount on the membership. And I appreciate Onyx for, for doing that for our listeners. So thank you guys so much. And then as a reminder as well, if you're, if you're looking for more information and you're like, hey, I, I want more hunting information, hunting tips and tactics. Obviously this podcast is a great resource. And then I've got my outdoor classes available@outdoorclass.com you can sign up for that. It's a, it's a membership. So what you do, you get all my courses. I've got archery, I've got mule deer hunting. I primarily mule deer hunting. I'm going to be working on another installment of kind of this mule deer series. So I've got, got like bow hunting. I've got, you know, bow hunting, mule deer. I've got finding mule deer. So I've got a lot of stuff focused on mule deer and I kind of want to build that out. I like to keep, you know, kind of increasing that library. And then not only that, but you guys can have access to all the stuff on there. There's incredible stuff. I mean, elk hunting stuff, Elk101 stuff's on there. You got stuff from Randy Newberg about pronghorn hunting. He should do a series on grouse hunting. I know he's pretty fanatical about that, but there's, there's pronghorn hunting. He's got some other stuff on there. There's like shooting, navigation, survival, like cooking. There's literally everything you need to know in that video format. It's really well put together and it's like think of like a master class but for hunting stuff. So also with you guys can use code livewild currently and get a discount on those memberships too. So thank you guys so much for, for tuning in. You know, we're to be going forward. We've got some, some cool podcasts in the works. We're going to be coming up on Elk Month. If you guys have questions or things you're thinking about, you know, send me a message via Instagram or, or whatever because I, I try to take a lot of these. Like there's a lot of stuff that kind of inspired this podcast of questions from people over the last, you know, two or three weeks saying, like, oh, you know, I've been really enjoying this hunt planning stuff. What do you think about this? And so it's a good way to kind of address a lot of topics through the podcast by listeners questions. So if you've got stuff that you want to know about, I might respond to it right away. It might, you might just hear it on the podcast. But I do utilize that information. So thank you guys so much. And until next week, I'm just going to say, what am I going to say? Travel on. We'll catch you guys later. Sam.