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Foreign I'm Remy Warren and I've lived my life in the wild as a professional guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days perfecting my craft. I want to give that knowledge to you. In this podcast we relive some of my past adventures as I give you practical hunting tips to make you more successful. Whether you're just getting started or a lifelong hunter, this podcast will bring you along on the hunt and teach you how to Live Wild podcast is brought to you by Mountain Tough and Yeti. Now for those that don't know, Mountain Tough is an online based training app that's designed for hunters to train you both mentally and physically for the mountains. So you can go on. And there's programs designed with workouts that are specifically made to get you ready for the things you're going to encounter out there in the wild. And while a lot of you probably know that their programs are designed to get you ready, they also have programs designed to keep you ready during the season. It really is a year round process to help you be the best you can be on the hunt. For me, a big part of the hunt actually comes after I get out of the field. It's that cooking process of wild game, whether back at camp or at home. And my Yeti cast iron skillet is one of my favorite ways to cook. I'm actually personally a big fan of cooking on cast iron, but it has to be high quality cast iron and there is a big difference. The Yeti cast iron skillets are actually made here in America in Wisconsin and they use that vintage casting method. So what that does is that it yields a hyper smooth finish and you get that non stick barrier. They're also a lot lighter than other cast irons, making them a lot easier to handle. Each skillet comes pre seasoned by hand so it's ready to use right out of the box. And there's four different sizes available ranging from 8 to 14 inches. I've been cooking on mine for a while and I highly recommend it to anyone. Welcome back to Live Wild Podcast everyone. This week we're going to lace up the boots and head to the top of the mountain on my wife Danielle's mountain goat hunt. Now we just got back from this extremely epic trip and I really want to share the story of this once in a lifetime hunt. Then I'm going to break down three of my favorite safety tips for really big mountain hunting. But before we do that, I want to share the story of the top of the mountain. Billy so the story of this hunt I guess really starts about six years ago probably when my wife first started to apply for mountain goats in our home state of Nevada. And the thing about mountain go tag, very difficult to draw. Think about a Nevada mountain goat tag even more difficult to draw. I mean, the odds of drawing one, it's. It's practically like winning the lottery. I know a lot of people say that about things, but the odds are just so abysmal that it's really, you know, for all intents and purposes, like a once in a lifetime opportunity. Now, she had been applying for other species and not drawn. She'd been on other hunts at this point. But when she first started applying for like elk and deer and stuff, she started applying for elk, deer and sheep, but didn't want to put mountain goat, knowing that it was like a very difficult hunt and not knowing if her skills at the time when she first started she'd be ready. So after about, I guess, six or seven years of hunting, she's like, okay, I'm ready to start applying for mountain goat. And so I started, we started applying her and I have like, like points wise, I guess I have like a few off of whatever the maximum would be. Now it's a, it's a, it's a random draw. Just the more points means you have, you know, more chances in, in the hat. It's like they're, they're squared. So, you know, if I got, I think I've got like 27 points or something like that, 28 points, something like that. And so they would square that and then you get one for that application year. So but even with my point amount I had like, it's probably odds are like one in a thousand. And when she drew it this year, I think she had like probably six or seven points. I can't remember. It was like one in 2500. So really, statistically about the same, right? Like, it's whether you're just like the odds are literally 1 in 2500. I mean, that's about as tough odds as it gets, to be honest. And when I first started applying her, I was like, I just have this feeling that you're going to draw this tag before me. Because realistically, I mean, the odds of me even drawing it would be like once in every thousand years. You know, for the most part, the odds are that you'll never draw it in your lifetime. So to be able to have like go on the hunt and whether it's I have the tag or she has a tag, or even a friend might have the Tag. It's a really cool experience to be able to. To experience it. And for some reason, when I was putting. When we were putting in, I was just making a joke. I'm like, I guarantee you're just going to draw this before I do, because that's just the way it goes, right? It's like, you know, better luck. In which case I just as excited. And so this summer, when the, when the results came out in, in for the Nevada draw, we were actually on a road trip. We were headed out that we were doing a. A marathon in. In Idaho somewhere outside of Coeur d'. Alene. And we like, you know, it's like draw, tag, draw day. It's like you just continually check, check, check, refresh, refresh. I mean, I think she was up because, like, they used to do it at midnight. So she got up at like midnight just to make sure that 1201, they didn't post them. And then 6am like nothing. And continually check in. And we're driving. So she's like, we're continually checking the, the draw results and everything. Finally, I think it was like we stopped to grab some lunch or something and we pulled over and like, draw results were up and out. So we're like, okay, so I check mine and I drew a deer tag, and I actually drew like a Nevada elk tag, archery elk tag, which was a really good tag. I'm like, oh, this is going to be an epic season, you know. And so then we check her draw results and it's like, unsuccessful, unsuccessful, unsuccessful. She's like scrolling to the bottom and then all of a sudden it just says green, successful, like mountain goat. And we both lost. Like, what? Like, this is unbelievable. I actually turned my elk tag back in because I knew that I wanted to be able to dedicate time to this hunt. So when it came time to plan for this, this trip, right, we had a lot of options. The season started 1st of September. And you know, most hunts like this, I, I would want time to scout and all these other things, but unfortunately, like, our schedule was, I mean, we were like, super busy with a lot of different things, other trips, all this other stuff. And I wasn't sure if I was going to get. We were going to get time to scout, like we would like. But the, the fortunate thing is one of my really good friends actually drew the tag last year. So to have like two people in our, you know, in our circle draw tags back to back, like, that is incredible because you can get, you know, really good new intel from just last Season and, you know, think about mountain goats is. I mean, you kind of know where they are at the top of the mountain. So, you know, like, our plan was, okay, well, we might not have time to scout, but we kind of figure out when we have time to hunt. Now, I ended up turning my elk tag back in, but I had drawn, you know, a couple other. I had a couple other elk hunts that I'd planned and already kind of, like, you know, planned out in September. And also we were kind of thinking, like, well, my thought and we kind of discussed this was like, all right. She really wanted to get, like, a good, you know, haired up billy, because mountain goats really. I mean, they definitely. They all look the same. Like, the difference between a world record mountain goat and, like, a good mountain goat is negligible, you know, but really, the whole, like, the coolest part about them is they're high the way that they, like they look, especially later as that hide starts to grow out. And so we thought, man, it would be cool to go a little bit later and just get them, like, full, like, hunt them when they're fully haired up. The other thing is, like, almost everybody hunts early because if you start to wait, you can run into some severe weather problems, and it can make the hunt a lot more difficult. Most people tag out beginning of September. There's a few that kind of go toward the end of September. And most years by October, nobody's hunting or one or two people. And so we. Maybe it was ballsy. Maybe it was, like, maybe it was a bad decision. But I think it was, like, just a decision that we made. You know, just both of us kind of, like, talking and looking. I'm like, this is, you know, our most important hunt that we could go on this year. Like, when do we want to go? And, like, we really were like, okay, October, because the season was like, goes till the end of October. Like, okay, if we wait till October, they'll be haired up. We can start hunting the beginning of October and, you know, probably won't have other hunters. And there's, like, a good potential for them to be haired up. And then my other thought was, like, you have the potential to hit a little bit of rut if it goes later in October. And we didn't really have any. Anything else planned. So we could go for, like, a week if it didn't work out. We could come back, be with kids, go back out. Like, we could make multiple trips. We definitely, like, planned time to dedicate to it, which was awesome to be able to do that and then, you know, maybe potentially as it got late season got on, like hit the rut and you never know what, what might pop out. So on the hunt, you know, like kind of planning and prepping for it, you know, there's a, there's a lot that goes into a hunt like this. Primarily like the physical aspect. And my wife's in, you know, like we'd been training for a marathon. We were just about to go run a marathon. Like we've been, you know, really focusing on eating good and focusing on our fitness. You know, we've been doing like the mountain tough workouts and stuff. Like all that stuff already leading up to drawing the tag. So now we're like, okay, this is a good year to draw it. Like a good time in life to draw it. Because a lot of people draw these tags and it's. You're 74 years old and it's like this mountain is not built for 74 year olds, to be blunt. Like it's, they're big mountains and so it was like awesome. We're going to be able to like enjoy this hunt, do it, do it justice and have a good time. So the way that for like people that haven't. Mountain goat hunter don't know, like on this particular tag you can shoot any go, right? You could shoot a billy, you could shoot a nanny, but the emphasis is on shooting a billy. Thing about mountain goats is like the herd like population growth can, is. I don't know if the best way to say it, like not necessarily unstable but can fall quickly and if nannies start to get harvested. So the, the objective is to grow the population and harvest the mature billies out of the population. And so before you even get your tag, you have to do like identification course, you know, like identify billies from nannies and you know, goes through all the things to look for and all that stuff and gives you a really good rundown as well of like the herd and the population and you know, what a mature billy looks like versus an immature billy and all that stuff, which is awesome. So that's kind of like part of the gearing up phase. And you know, my wife did that and it was something that like you know, after, after the course and leading up to the, the hunt, I mean she was constantly watching mountain goat hunting videos, watching videos of goats to like identify them, right? And her biggest thing, she's like her goal on this hunt, you know, which she's like the only thing that I care about. She's like, I would rather not fill the tag than shoot a nanny. She's like, I don't want to accidentally shoot a nanny. She's like, I don't want to take a nanny, I want a billy. And that was her like, very hard stance on what I'm looking for out of this tag. She's like, I want to do the hunt, but I want to harvest a billy. And of course she's like, you know, I want to harvest a mature billy, but especially if I can. You know, the thing about mountain goats is like you could have a three year old that probably like the first three years it seems like they grow 99.9 of what they're going to grow. And then every year after that's just incremental, small incremental growth. But generally when you find a mature billy, they're, they're big because they've got everything they had the first three years, plus that extra at the base that kind of continues to grow out that mass and grow some more length. And then the cool thing about a mature billy is they just look like there's something about their body. When I think probably like a 4 year old, definitely when they hit 5, their body almost changes like a mature billy. Their, their face gets long. Like they get this long horse face. They get the big, the big drop and sway in the back. Their hips, like their whole, they just, they increase in size. They just look massive. And I actually had a goat. My brother and I drew goat tags in Kodiak. I don't remember how long ago it was a while ago. I ended up bow hunting it. My brother took his rifle and we both got goats. My only kind of like I ended up shooting a billy pretty much toward the end of the hunt. And it was one of the better billies we've seen, aside from the one that my brother shot. And it was like a three year old billy, which, it's a billy. And unfortunately it took a big fall off the mountain, which kind of sucks too, right? You kind of get down, it's like just shattered at the bottom. But everything was fairly intact. But it was, it was just a, a younger billy. And I was like, man, just those like big mature billies look like just a different species. But so on this hunt, you know, in the preparation, she was just like continually watching the videos, doing every state she, I think any state that had a identification course she did that. She just like, you know, watched as much hunting YouTube as, you know, she could on like goat hunts and other things just to kind of like prep for, you know, Seeing. Seeing an animal that you aren't used to seeing. And then the other thing, the other cool thing about this hunt is her sister. My wife actually has, I guess, five sisters. It's a big family of girls. But her youngest sister was going to come on the hunt with us. And so in preparation for that, like, her sister Jess was going to come on the hunt with us. She does a lot of, like, fitness stuff and was on the Olympic team for rowing and stuff. So it seemed like a really perfect hunt where kind of an introduction into hunting for her, especially, like, you know, the kind of hunting that I like to do, the mountain, mountain type hunting. I was like, oh, this will be perfect. I think she'll really enjoy it. It'll be cool to have her along on the hunt with my wife, this is like once in a lifetime hunt. So she went through hunter safety just so she'd kind of be more familiarized with hunting and, and all that stuff and. And did a lot of the ide. Like, did the identification stuff with my wife just to. To watch all those things so she'd kind of get an idea of what was going on. And we planned to go out for the first week of October. And then the other cool thing was my buddy John, who'd hunted the area last year, and my other buddies Mike were able to make it out for like, the first part of the hunt that we were going to go in on. So. So we were going to have a little bit of help. They weren't. We were going to go out a day early and then kind of get in and hopefully be hunting. And they were going to meet us that next day just with their work schedule. So, you know, we were all ready. And then my wife, you know, just in preparation for the hunt, did a ton of, like, you know, hikes. Her and her sister did a ton of hikes with heavy packs up throughout the Sierras. Just, I think they climbed every high peak in the Sierras that they could. And just like, really prepared, you know, mentally, physically, just getting in the headspace of like, this is going to be a hard hunt. And so for the hunt, you know, I'd done a lot of research, talked to a few people, you know, talked to my buddy John, who spent a lot of time in there. And I kind of had a plan of what I wanted to do. And I knew that there was this area that I wanted to hunt based on somewhere that I would pick to go, right, like, and I think that I wanted to pick it because it was like an area that's pretty difficult to get into, I would say, like, there's all of. It's difficult. And then this, like, particular spot I think was more difficult to get into. So I figured, let's go there. Like, that's where a mature Billy should be hiding. So we now head out for the. The. The first day of the hunt. We get into the air, but we're headed out. Oh, I will mention this because this is kind of part of the story as well. So we. We had. I was gonna use my. My wife was gonna shoot this seven mil back country, my Live Wild edition one. And the gun, you know, like, the guns dialed and everything. And so we'd been shooting, and I ended up getting like, one of the new. So whether it be. Ended up making a new carbon fiber version of the Live Wild rifle. And it's got like a, you know, a carbon fiber bastion stock, which has that more like vertical pistol grip stock. It's got a carbon fiber barrel. It's still that seven back country. This one was seven back country, shorter barrel and everything. And it showed up like, right. Like, I guess pretty close before the hunt. And I'm like, man, I don't know. Do we have time to set it up? So I said it. I ended up setting it up, and we took it to the range and, like, shot. And I'm like, it was hand. I mean, I've shot a lot of rifles, and I'm like, this particular rifle is hands down the most accurate rifle I've ever shot. Like, we were. I was stacking multiple bullets at 200 yards in, like, the same hole. Like, this thing was just dead on. So I'm like, okay, we haven't shot it a lot, but I do know that, like, this. This gun is on. And I worked up the. The chart and everything, and I've got. I was using my Vortex, like Geo ballistics range finder. So I've got all the calculations in there, and which I really like because I can range. And then it just spits out the dope for elevation, you know, temperature, all that kind of stuff. So it makes it. In case you got to do something fast, you know, easy. So on the way out, we're like, okay. Sometimes it's just nice to. To. To get a few shots. And so we went to a range on the way there and on our way out to the area and shot. And I mean, we just. It was like hammering out to. We just walked it out to 800 yards just. Just for fun. And then I was like, okay, we're Going to take one last shot 400 yards. And we had a gong out there and one of those like 1 inch orange stickers in the center of it. And I. All right, shoot this. Take one shot. And this is, you know, like, make this your, like, you know, simulate your one shot on this on a goat. And she shoots that gong at 400 yards and takes the black diamond out of the sticker at 400 yards. I'm like, this gun is on. Let's put it away. We're good. We don't need to mess with anything else. Like I. She was so nervous on the way out. They're just thinking about all the things. Okay. I want to Billy. Like the mountain, it's all these things. Thinking so nervous. I feel like she kept saying, she's like, I feel like I'm going to throw up. Like she has prior to the hunt. I don't think she slept for three days. Just like the excitement and the anticipation and packing up and gearing up for seven days worth of stuff and the whole thing, I think is just like she hadn't slept at all. And she's like, I feel like I'm gonna throw up. And then she hit that like bullseye at 400 yards. I mean, like absolute dead. I was like, that's. I can't shoot that that well. Like, that is an absolute perfect shot. Let's put it away. And it was just like, I think that was like the nerve calming. It's like we needed that. It felt good to be like, okay, we're on. We're dialed now. We just got to get it. Get to the goats. So we decided to go into the place where we're going to hunt and there's no trails. We're. We're going to bushwhack. I had heard that you could get through this particular area of the mountains. And so we, we load up our packs, like seven days worth of stuff. And then to top that off, there's definitely like, we had a day of good weather that day. We had. The next day was going to be good and then that next night it was going to turn to. It was going to snow. It was going to be like. So we had a lot of cold weather gear, you know, some extra stuff. Like our packs were heavy. My pack was. I weighed my pack out. I had a little bit of extra gear with the spotter and all that. It was like, I don't know, 50 something pounds. I had camera, you know, camera, whatever. I had a bunch of stuff. And then the girls packs were Heavy, like especially for their size and weight. They were, they were in the 42, 43 pounds range. Like it's a heavy pack. And we start embarking up the mountain and it's very steep. I mean it's near vertical, I'd say like. And so we're going up and it's, I'm like the safety coordinator, okay. Because I'm taking my wife, my sister in law and you know, they've never, neither of them have really been on, neither of them have been on a mountain goat hunt, let alone like a multi day hunt in this rough of terrain. So I'm just, I'm being very cautious, you know, kind of going through the things that I go through on every guided hunt that I do where I'm like, okay, you're part guide, part expedition leader and full time safety coordinator. Making sure that nobody, nothing happens and you don't get into a situation that's too sketchy. You know, I'm like, it's going to be a little sketchy, but we aren't going to go into something where it's like we're risking our lives. There's no goat that's worth that. So we're going up the mountain and it's very steep and we get like, we kind of work around the base of this waterfall like slab rock. And then we're climbing up and there's a lot of brush and things and start to get through that. Now I'm like, okay, I think we gotta get into this canyon. And we're quite a ways up. I would say we're about a quarter, maybe a little past a quarter of the way up. And I'm like, part of it is it's not getting up that's the impossible part. Sometimes you're like, how are we going to get off this, this mountain? Like, well, maybe we can find a different route out or something. But I knew with snow, like, you know, it was going to make it more difficult. So we're going up and I, and I decided, I'm like, okay, these are heavy packs. Everybody's a little off balance. Like it's very steep. Let's, let's stop here. I'm going to drop my pack and I'm going to try to find the route. Like, because we could be doing this all day, coming back up and dropping in and get cliffed out. So I'm like, I'm just going to scout it out. So I, I dropped my pack there and started moving up and I, and I go around to where I think we can get up. And I'm like, up the bottom and. Or up the. This where these. The valley is where it's like, water would flow down. And as you'd expect, like, you know, there's like a sheer kind of wall. And I'm like, well, we could get up that. If people get on my shoulders and then we have to hoist our packs up. And then from there, where do we go? And I'm like, that's just. That's not good. So I back out there and I find another route around and I start picking my way up and I can get through, but it's. I mean, it was very technical and it was very dicey in. In a few places. I'm like, okay, this is one of those places where if you're a little off weight or you slip here, there's no room for recovery. You fall, and you're essentially dead. There was a lot of that. I would say the trail was like three, four plus. There was places where you had to scramble and get over stuff, and there was cliffs and maybe there was a better route, but it was pretty gnarly, and I could definitely do it. But I would put myself in the expert professional category for this kind of thing. And I'm like, there's no. I would not feel safe taking very many people in this way. Especially kind of some beginners with heavy packs, like, maybe packless. Yeah, I think they can make it. But with the heavy packs and the whole thing, I'm like, this is just one. I'd be a nervous wreck, like, without, you know, I mean, so if you think about, like, ratings, like, 5 is rock climbing. And then it goes like 5.1, 5.2, 5, 9, 5, 10. Like, you know, so it was like 4 plus. Whereas, like, there's some stuff that you need, some handholds and some other stuff, and it's just. It was. It was not safe. And so I can't. Well, the other thought was, I think we could get up it eventually. I mean, everyone. There'd be a lot of tears and maybe whatever. Like, it would be scary. Like, it was very scary. And then let's say we got up at. How are we going to get down it? Especially if it snows? Like, we're trapping ourselves in here. So I go back to the girls and I'm like, look, as the safety coordinator of this expedition, I gotta pull the plug. Like, I. I do not think it's safe to continue. Like, we're gonna have to find a different route in or go somewhere Else, unfortunately. And this was, like, this was our plan. This has been our plan for a while. We had a few other backup plans, but we're like, this is where we want to be. So they agreed. They're like, okay, awesome. I'd rather hear that than get up there. And I didn't want to get to a point where we just couldn't turn around, where we had to just force our way up. And so we pulled the plug. And I'm like, all right, so we're. We're going to gear up to. To climb down. I'm like, well, we're here. We might as well sit down and glass for a bit, like, see what we see. So I start glassing, and sure enough, across from us, I turn up a. Like, it looked like a. I'm like, I think that's a billy. Looked like a young billy in this, like, vertical cliff. I'm like, oh, goat. And it kind of just like, lifted us, like, here we were going to turn around, and now we're like, oh, goat. So we started looking at that, and then, like, a nanny and a kid pop out. You could tell it was like, definitely like a younger group. It was like, you know, a real young billy. And then some nannies, kids. And I'm like, so we watched them. We're like, okay, we found goats. Like, we check. We can check that off the list. We climbed the mountain. We couldn't make it to where we wanted to, but we found goats. So it kind of gave us, like, this extra bit of adrenaline, you know? I was like, okay, cool. So we end up working our way back down. We're like, we're gonna go check and see if we can get over a different. A different part of the mountain. And it's going to be a lot longer to get in there. It's going to be a lot harder. But, like, it might be more doable. Like, we just need doable at this point. Like, we. We don't need. We don't need to have, like, helmets and climbing gear and, like, all that stuff. We just need to be able to get there. So we're going down, and I'm like, I'm just going to glass a few other spots while we already saw goats. I mean, why don't we just keep looking so I can last another up another canyon that we passed? And I'm like, oh, there's some more goats. Like a bunch of nannies, but we're seeing goats. So I'm like, okay, so this is looking promising. So we get to this other spot where we think we can go up over the mountain. And I sit down and I'm like, before we go and see if we can get over this, scout it out. I'm just gonna do a little bit of glassing because we got like an hour left of daylight. And so I sit down, I look up top of the mountain and immediately I've got my, just my binos and it's a long ways away. And I go, Billy. Like, this is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt a billy. So I get the spotting scope on it and I'm like, it's a giant bodied billy. And I'm like, it has everything. And this is like. I mean, I've, I've been mountain goat hunting. I've. I've actually even guided some goat hunts, like in Montana, like a long time ago when there used to be a lot of tags right where I guide there, you know, but for, for the most part, like, I don't, I don't, I'm not like, I'm not studying them all the time. I know what a goat looks like. But I was like, you know, this is, this is a good tag, you know, I think like, I know where we wanted to get into. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, everything about this billy, I'm like, it's got a massive body. It's got that horse thing looks like King Kong on the mountain. But here's the but. I'm like, but he looks like he has two inch horns. Like, this thing looks tiny. Now granted is like almost two miles away and evening time. But I'm like, man, I, I swear I just see these tiny little like 2 inch horns. I'm like, I can't figure this thing out. Like I was thinking in my head and I was just like, man, this is like, I was like, this, this, I was making jokes because I'm like, this is like a steroid juiced up billy. Like he's got everything but no horn, just nothing. So I take some pictures in the through, through this spotter. And it was funny because we just tried to go up the mountain and got kind of turned around or, you know, we turned around because it wasn't, wasn't safe. And then we see this big Billy up there. And the girls were like, let's try to get up there tonight. You know, can we get up there? I think we can. You know, they're like trying to pick her out. Like, okay, if we go there and then we could get to that rock and then Go up that crack. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know, everything changes when. When you've got a big billy in the. In the glass. And I was like, no, we're going to. I think we can actually get. Like, there was a ridge further down that. I'm like, I think if we go up that other ridge, like, it's clean. I don't think we're going to run into cliffs or whatever. We don't have time to do it today, but we should. And I don't want to just go up there in the dark because he could go over the other side or whatever. I'd rather wait for morning and see if we can see what he does. So we camp right there below where the billy is. And my buddies, John and Mike, I was able to get a call out, and I'm like, yeah, so I. We found a billy, but I'm still thinking maybe we should try to go into the other zone. Like, I don't know, you know, they're like, well. I was like, well, we'll see if he's there. But I'm like, man, he just looked like he had everything, but he just looked small. Like, his horns look small. I guess it doesn't really matter. They're like, well, is he white and have black horns? I was like, yeah. They're like, okay, well, does it really matter? I'm like, no, it doesn't really matter. I guess they're like, that's a gift. Like, go after that thing, you know? And I'm like, okay, so. And then I text my buddy Jeremy Rusink. He's a. He's a goat guide and guide in Alaska. And I'm like, jeremy, I'm like, dude, I don't know what's going on with this billy. Like, everything to me screams, like, big, mature billy, but his horns look tiny. What's going on? Like, am I reading the situation wrong? He texts back. He's just like, that's a big billy. Pretty much. He's like, that's a big Billy. Go shoot that thing. And I think I was just, you know, like, kind of shocked that, like, the first billy that we see is a big billy, you know? But the. So what? The reason that I was so thrown off is, like, you could see his glands were just super swollen. And so his glands were swollen up to almost to the top of his horn. And from the distance where we were looking in the lighting and everything, all I could see was the top 2 inches of his horn and just looked like I could Tell that he had big glands. I'm like, that's the definition of this is a big billy, like an old mature billy. But like did he just not grow any horn? What's going on? Like, you know, whatever. He's like, no, that's just, there's, that's an. Probably a 9 inch 6 year old Billy. Depending on where you're at. Like they don't get any better than that. You should go after that. Like, okay, so it looked like to me it looked like a big billy, but its horns look tiny. And it did because the way that those glands, like, those glands were so swollen up he, it was swollen all the way almost to the tips. So I'm just seeing the tips. I'm like, okay, there's you know, a lot of horn there that, that we can't see. And so the next morning we climb up the one side and start glassing and sure enough he's there and there's actually another one there. There was another goat with him. And I'm like, okay, now I, I had better lighting this time. Light was coming from the, the behind. Like you like shining on them. And so I could see and I was like, oh, okay, that's a, that's a hammer. Like the thing is just monstrous body, big. You could tell it's just big mature Billy, big long face, everything. And then there was another Billy there that was like probably a 4 year old. It didn't have the swollen glands. You could see all of its horn. You're like, okay, comparing the two. Its horn looks bigger. But we know that this other one is a mature billy. We're going to try to target that one. But I think, you know, if we get up there and whichever one maybe gives us a shot, we'd probably go for whatever. But given the opportunity, we want to go after that old Billy. Like that's, that's like absolutely as good as it gets. Really. So I mean any, honestly the younger one may have even had like score wise might even scored better, I don't know. But like we wanted that mature Billy. So our plan was we're like, we're gonna go, we're gonna try to get up. There was a spot that I could, I pulled out my onyx and was like, okay. I think that like if we get to this spot, if they, if he does the same thing they did last night, he's going to kind of be in this little zone. And once you're on the mountain, I'm like, it's probably going to be too steep. To see. But if we can be back a little bit, I think we get to this knob and shoot from like 400 yards and it'd be perfect approach everything. So we kind of lighten our packs in the bottom and plan to make the ascent. And it's, I mean, like, it's at the top of the mountain. It's like a 3, 500 vertical foot climb over. Not like it goes up fast and it's very steep. And so we kind of, we lighten our, our packs and I take out some stuff from my pack because I'm like, you know, we don't need seven days worth of stuff. We're just gonna go up there. I felt like we could get up there fairly quick and then, you know, hopefully the Billy's still there and we'll have a Billy we can pack him out. So I took out some stuff. I still have like a light like stone, glacier, tarp, tent kind of stuff and some other things just in case. And we started away at the mountain. Now it wasn't just clean cut. There was a lot of brush and other stuff that we had to like, you know, new growth kind of stuff, little aspens, little. All kinds of plants and stuff growing. And it was like, you know, you had to bushwhack through that, navigate our way around a few cliffs. We end up crossing through this, this big patch of tre and trying to get up this cleaner ridge. And we were going as fast as we could. We were actually moving and it took about, I don't know, probably like three hours. So in that time, we left Jesse to just kind of glass and watch from down where our original glassing vantage. And then our buddies John and Mike actually met up with her to glass and try to keep eyes on us and what's going on. And then the plan was like, if we, if we get one down, they could come up and help pack out. And so we make the climb and, and we get into a point where like we're, we're moving up the mountain and the, the Billies had moved over the top. So we're like, well, I don't know what to do. We're gonna, we're gonna just have to get into position and hopefully they'll come back over. So we got to where. We got to where we were originally planning on shooting from and they weren't there. So I decided, I'm like, well, let's like move up closer because it was actually a little further than I was expecting. And so we continue to move up and we've Got like, this kind of almost like a ski chute coming down, and we're moving up, and one of the billies popped up at the top and moved over, like, moved over onto the other side. So I thought that they'd all gone over. Well, it had popped back over and was now on our side, but then went back over the top, and we're at a place where we can't really see very good. So we radioed the other guys, and they're like, no, they're there. And he just bedded right up where he kind of. He just disappeared. So we make a decision to wait him out. We're like. I'm like, the winds. The thermal's cranking up, but the prevailing wind is coming back over the ridge toward us. So my thought is that we are going to have to, like, maybe they'll come back into this basin where they've been, and we. We can actually see it and shoot really well. So we got the gun set up. It was, like, pretty close. 300 yards is about as far as we could see. You know, there's a lot of places that they could pop over. We had a pretty decent view. We tried going up, and we just kept losing vantage, right? So we dropped back down to this rock pile. Got Danielle set up. It was, like, solid rest. Like, she was dead. Dead rest. If a go to come over, it would have been all done. And then, like, the thermals weren't great for. I was like, I don't want to try to go sneak on this one. But the way that the mountain was like, we could see this one basin, but then it started to really climb, and then it started to roll over the top. And I think it was at the top where it started to roll. So in order to see the goat, you'd have to be 15, 20 yards. So we just opted to, like, wait it out. So we're waiting, waiting, waiting, and the day's ticking by, and we check in with the other guys, and they're like, at some point, there was, you know, two billies. And I don't know what had happened, But I think what we found out later is. Is one of the. Where the big billy was. I think a small billy had moved in and bedded where he was, but we didn't really know that. So there's still just a billy bedded where it's always been bedded. And so we decide. We're like, all right. The thermals start to shift in the evening, and I'm like, we gotta make a move. I Don't think they're gonna come this way. Let's go up and make a play. So we start edging around and I can see as we're like edging around there's like. Because I'm. My thought was like the way the mountains. So what I was doing is I like just kept pulling up onyx and I had like, I put it in, I had enough. I got service when we got high enough where I could put it in 3D mode and I'm like, okay. I think if we get around this we could see this because it was very. As soon as you're on the, on the steep stuff you couldn't see more than 30 yards. It was just that steep. Like it was nearly vertical. And the other thing was we didn't want to be shooting skyline animals. So I'm like we gotta really play this smart. So we start edging around. I'm looking and thinking like, okay, this is our route. We can get here and we should be within a couple hundred yards of where they're at and maybe be able to see on this ridge. So we're edging around. I can't see anything. And then finally I can see like one outward cropping and I see two billies on it. One was that three year old. That three or four year old like long horned billy. And then the other one, I can't really tell what it is because it's just like on the rock. So now we, we're like, well okay, I'm standing the way the heel is like I can see we're looking up and it's so steep like the mountain kind of. You look down and it's just thou. It just drops off thousand, like 2,000ft. Three, you know, 3,000ft. It's kind of disorienting. Like Danielle's here and she's like gripping them out. She's like we're safe, right? We're safe. Like she's almost. She's like getting vertigo. I'm getting vertigo. We're looking up at these, the top of where these billies are. It's like 300 yards away. They're kind of looking down and you, it makes you dizzy. Like you almost like feel like you're gonna fall over and because the sun's behind him and I'm like, I can. We can only see them when we're standing. I'm like there's no shot here. Our approach is crap because they can see us. They're going to be skylined on this rock. If we move in like, we. You can't lay down and shoot. You'd have to shoot off hand. Like, this is not. This is a terrible setup. So I make the decision. I'm like, we're going to go stock on that bedded Billy. The. The one like the. The one that we thought was the big one up at the top. Because we, you know, we knew where he was about, so we were going to sneak into there and we thought if we blow him out, we'll be on the top. We can pop over this rock and shoot down on one of these two billies. And maybe there's another good Billy in there, you know, they were both good Billy. So I'm like, that'll be our play. So we start moving up the mountain slowly and like glassing, stepping, glassing, stepping. We're moving up. It's super steep. And we get to a part where we're going to. I know, like, where we couldn't see from the other side. I'm like, there was this group of dead trees, and that's where the Billy was last. Like, we saw and were able to check in. And so I'm like, let's drop our packs. And we're. I was. I told Daniel. I'm like, it's going to be like a bow stock. It's funny because she's like, should I do this with my bow? And we decided, like, she's like, I don't need the extra pressure of that. I just really want to, like, take a good Billy. I'm like, okay. So I'm like, we're gonna be shooting him at 20 yards probably. You're gonna have to shoot off hand. She's like, okay, that's fine. So we. We start sneaking in. And we're like, sneaking. And I'm like, I. He's got to be right here. And so we move up, move up, get the wind right, move into where it was. I see the Billy and I'm like, I go, danielle. I'm like, this looks like a baby. Like, there's no way. This. This is not the Billy we've been watching. This is like a one year old. The thing looks like he's 60 pounds, you know, like, he's got. He's got all the Billy features, but he's just miniature. And I'm like, we got it. This isn't it. Like something happened. Somehow the big billy swapped out. So we start to back out, and I see that little Billy take off. And so he drops down and he's going down the mountain. So we Run up to the top, get on the ridge. And there's like, we're gonna try to go to the, the two that were skylined on this, like, rock outcropping. And we, we move down. And I can see the Billy and the, I can see they're looking at the little one that was running away and he's looking down. And I, we, we crawl up I, I Danielle gets the bipods down, gets on the rock. It's like 200 yards, maybe 100 and something not, not even worth ranging, like, close enough shooting. And she like, get, just as she gets over, those other billies start to take off. And I don't know if they ever saw us or if they just saw that other billy take off. And they started take off, they disappear around the cliff, pop out, and there's like some trees at the top on the backside. And I'm like, we can see them, but there's no clear shot at this point. They're probably 400 yards away moving, and then they disappear. And it's like they disappear into the abyss. Like, it's just big cliffs and shit everywhere. And there was one spot where like, that cliff kind of dead ended at the, the highest point of this ridge. And there was like a big cliff on the top. And then this, like, at the time I thought it was like a scree field. Turns out to be like this giant boulder field coming straight down off this mountain. And I'm like, they might come out there, but I, I don't know. Like, at this point, we are absolutely deflated. It was pretty much everything we had just like, to get up there. And then, you know, now we're like, now what do we do? I, I looked through my gear and I thought I had like, because the plan was gonna be like, okay, we need to stay the night. Got like, my puffer jacket and pants. I'm like, I don't have any of my stuff. I accidentally took that out when I was taking something else out. But I was like, well, maybe we just find a cave and hang out here tonight. I don't know what we're gonna do. Like, we were pretty deflated. We really thought was like, the hunt's over. Like, at this point it's, it's done. So I'm actually taking a picture of Daniel. I'm like, well, we might as well take a picture at the top. We looked, we didn't see him come out. It's like they're gone, like, and I don't know. I'm like, well, we gotta Go get our packs at least. Like, we can't just. You know, we can't just continue to pursue these things without our packs. Like, we got to go find our packs and maybe regroup, figure out what's going to go down. So we're doing that, taking a picture, and the. Like, across the val. Like, across the canyon, the billies pop out. There's actually three of them now in. And so I. Well, I. I'm assuming there are three, but there could have been. They could have picked up a nanny. I don't really know, but I think it was 3 billion. There was definitely the. The Longhorn one, the one we'd seen the first night, the big old one, and then another one that I didn't pay too much attention to. And so I'm like, they were just around the corner, like, kind of where we couldn't see, going up that boulder field toward that last cliff. And I'm like, this is it. Like, we might be able to get a shot here, but we can't from where we're at. We gotta hop over the ledge and get on this other little ledge. And I'm like, I don't. I don't know how this is gonna go. So we drop down. Danielle's focus, like, I don't think she's even looking down anymore. She's just focused on her steps. We get onto this ledge, we set the gun and Bipod up. I arrange it, get the dope, set the scope, and I'm like, the back one is gonna come up. They're moving. And when. So what happened was they go. They're going through the boulder field. They disappeared out of sight. To get around this mountain, they had to jump up on this. This one cliff. And it was like. It was like this big wall. They come up, and then to get around it, they had to turn. And then they would turn around it, like, our direction. And then they would turn back around and disappear. And the first one went over and did that. And I'm like, get. Focus on where that. Where that one just went around. And they're pretty far. And Danielle's like, how far are they? And I'm like, we don't. In my mind, I'm thinking, like, what are we gonna. You're gonna. We gonna debate holdover right now? What are we gonna do? I just, like, focus on your shot. Easy. Pressure on the trigger. Focus on the spot. The Billy's coming up, and he hops up. He and Danielle's like, at this point now, just getting settled in the gun I mean, the, like, this is all happening very fast, you know, I know I've guided a lot of people and, like, a lot of, you know, sometimes it's like some. I'm not trying to, like, make a generalization, but in many instances, like, I feel like women hunters make better shots, but they also take more time, you know, and that's probably why they make better shots. You know, like, things don't necessarily happen as fast sometimes especially, or anybody that, like, doesn't have a lot of as much experience as other people or what have you, and then sometimes rushing things, you make bad shots. But she, like, got on that rifle and it was just like fist underneath the back end, steadied it, Bipods ready. I mean, it was just like in seconds, gets on the gun, she's in it, like, acquired the billy. And I'm like, it's gonna happen as soon as he turned, just, you know, pick your spot. Steady pressure on the trigger, and that thing pops up on this rock, turns sideways at that spot where they turn sideways, and boom, she shoots and hammers him. And I'm like, I don't know how you did. Like, that shot was incredible. And he drops off that rock and gets into that boulder field. But I'm like, I don't know how this thing's still on his feet. And the thing about goats, mountain goats, is, like, their natural way they get away from predators is to get into the nastiest stuff possible. And that's why a lot of goats fall off of cliffs, because you shoot them, they get onto something and then they die and they fall off. And I'm like, you just have to. So he's in this boulder field, and this boulder field looks nasty. And I'm like, in the backside of that boulder field, I'm pretty sure is just a thousand foot straight vertical drop. Like, he's going to. He's going to try everything he can to kick his way into that. And I'm like, you just have to keep shooting, like, whatever you can do. You break him down. And so she shoots again. Bam. Hits him again. And I'm like, he's still standing. I cannot figure this. Like, so then he. He moves over, and I'm like, okay, she shoots two more times. She hit him four times, twice through the shoulders. And, like, somehow he just never lost his footing. But then he. He ended up going down and falling down like this. Those. Those rocks were a lot. From our angle, it looked like it was hard to tell the size of these rocks, whereas, like, those rocks where there's just like big ten foot gaps in them, you know, and you're like to get over them, you gotta, gotta drop down like four feet. So it was pretty rough. So he falls down into that, but he's like almost hanging vertical. And I couldn't tell what was going on. Like, his feet got caught up in that and all that happening. It probably, it felt like 10 minutes. It was probably less than a minute, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was probably a minute and the Billy was down and it was somewhere we could get to, which was a bonus, of course. And he did not fall. He didn't fall far. He fell but like didn't get destroyed. And it was like, it was, it was. We went from not thinking we were getting this billy and knowing like, do. Are we gonna. How do we. We kind of just left it on. Like, we pushed pretty hard to get there as fast as possible. Earlier that day sucked a lot of energy out of us. And then like to have. And then like climb up to the top, not work out and be like, man, this isn't gonna work. And then to go into, I mean a quick, like, we gotta make it happen now and then. Just like probably the most epic shot I've ever seen in my entire hunting career of just like getting in, getting on it and hitting it exactly where you're supposed to. Like, it just was absolutely perfect. And I mean I was like, as a husband and just whatever, I was like, I was proud. I'm like, this is, this is. That was some next level, like just getting on the gun. I was like, let's maybe, maybe we should team up. Do one of those, do one of those NRS competitions. I'll just ride your coattails. Like, I don't know, I'll. I'll just call the shots, you pull the trigger kind of thing. Because I'm like, I know if I would have made that shot, like, it was, it was just had to be the exact like precise moment of like, everything had to be perfect and just absolutely right behind the shoulder, right out the right in the like perfect shot. And I was like, man, I just don't know. Like in crunch time I probably would have air balled that thing. Like, I don't know, it was just incredible. And so we go up and you know, her big thing is like, that was the Billy, right? And I'm like, yeah, it was the. I'm 99.999. Sure, that was the big Billy. But like, things were moving quick, you know, I like, I. That was the one we were after. But like, until I go put my hands on it, it's gonna take us a while to like figure our way down these cliffs and get over there. Like, I can't, you know, rest at ease knowing which one we got like in. When they went out of sight, when they left, that was the. Where the big one was. But yeah, I'm pretty sure we got the right one. So we get over there and sure enough, it's, you know, six year old, like big old mature Billy, like absolute mountain monarch. And it was everything like we could have hoped and dreamed, really. And so we, we radioed over to the other guys. They were like, they'd seen the goats blow out because they were watching and they. I think. I can't remember like what happened, but they thought that they were packing up. They're like, man, that sucks. And then I think they. Someone heard. I. Someone heard, like, I don't know if they heard the shot or maybe just like impact or something. And like, what happened? Like, the. Billy's down, we got him. You know, you see him and he was just on the rock face there, like, oh my gosh. And so we're like, well, we've got some time. And one of the best things that I did going up because I was like, you know, if we end up having to try to come out of here in the dark, some weather was coming in the next morning. I'm like, I actually think that this is navigable in the dark, but not without a track. So I had actually recorded my track going up on Onyx and then got enough service to send it to my buddy Mike. And he drove to where he could get like service and download it on his phone. And I'm like, if you guys can make it to where we started, I think I could probably get it back to that particular spot. And then I also tracked my track from there to where we are now on a separate track. So I was like, if you guys could get to that kind of bench where we were planning on shooting originally, I think you could get there by dark, is about three. It'd be about three hours or so because I get four. It's four o' clock at this point, 4:30, something like that in the afternoon. I'm like, if you. If you guys can get to that point, I think that we can. I think that we can, you know, get it to you guys there and then we could all pack it down the real steep stuff together. And so they end up. Another friend of ours, wife was around and just so happened to kind of be in the same area, and Mike ran into her and was like, she's like, oh, I'd love to help you guys pack out. So we had for the pack out, my wife, her sister Jess, our friend Heather, and then my buddies Mike and John. So there was three women and three guys. I think that this is like, a Guinness World book of records for goat packouts where women are not outnumbered by men. And there's three that has to be. I don't know if there's ever been a goat pack out with more females and with that 50, 50 or better male to female ratio, like, that's definitely got to be a record. So they start their way up, and we start taking the. Taking the billy apart. And this is, like. This boulder field's tough. Like, it's. It now, you know, it's. It's steep. Like, I'm tying him off. By the time we got there, it took us about an hour to get. Get to work our way through the cliffs and get to where the billy was. Like, it took us a while because it was. We had to backtrack a lot. Like, where we shot from was getting into, like, real nasty stuff, and we had, like, backtrack, drop back down, grab our packs, go back down around the mountain, find our way through the cliffs, go back up, like, drop down a lot of elevation, then climb straight up to it. So it took us a. It took us a bit of time to get to it, and then we took some pictures and then started to skin him out. She wanted to do a full body mount, so I'm like, all right, we're going to. You know, we had to tie him off, and actually just to try to move him a little bit, he actually kind of fell off one of the little things and. And took a little bit off of the tip of the horn, which I was like, man, glad I didn't want his first fall. End up smashing the horns. But we got him skinned out. It took a lot longer in that. In that rock because we had to continually tie him off. And it was like, you know, I'm, like three feet below him trying to, you know, being scared that he's gonna fall on me, have him tied off, go from the top. Like, it was just super awkward in that boulder field. And then by this point, it's now dark. I finally got everything cut up, and. And now I'm like, okay, we can't. Like, this is. This boulder fielder. He's out. Is a little dicey. So I ended up taking Danielle's pack down and then coming back and doing the meat in two trips, and then the cape in a final trip, getting out of the boulder field. And then by the time I got out of the boulder field, the other guys were already kind of at our spot, original spot. And they're like, well, we'll follow your other track to you. I think we can make it pretty close. So got back to where I put everything loaded, you know, all the meat and hiding everything into the pack. And then Danielle took all the gear, and we worked our way down the mountain. Not like, I mean, the way the crowfi is probably 300 yards, which takes a while in that steep, like, in that country. And here comes the calvary. Like, the packout crew, I mean, they. They'd been walking now for I don't know how long. Like, took them three or four hours to get to us. I was like, man, these guys are absolute legends here, guys and gals. And so we split up the. The goat. And it was. I mean, it was awesome for that kind of country to have, like, a light pack. We had our tracks on, and we're like, we're gonna make it out tonight. We're gonna. We're gonna get down. So we. We end up packing. We worked our way, navigated without a hitch down the mountain. Like, felt very safe. My wife was like, it's actually better in the dark because you don't see the perspective of how high you are. Like, you just focus on where you're stepping. And we make it down is like 1:30 in the morning, something like that. Get back, make camp, man. Just what a. You know, celebrated. Cooked up some mountain house and peak meals, and, you know, went to bed at, like, I don't know, two, three in the morning, Slept for a few hours, and it was like, just, what a. What an epic trip. What an epic hunt. And just. Just an incredible, like, incredible experience. And everything that we could have asked out of. Out of the hunt, you know, from it, like, almost not working out and. And being up at the top to ending up her making an incredible shot and. And getting the. A big old mature billy exactly what she really wanted. Like, it was just a. An absolute perfect hunt. And I. You know, it's funny, like, my two probably best hunts that I could think of, like, one was her elk last year, and now this mountain goat this year. Like, just two absolutely epic hunts. And it's like, last year, we're like, we can never outdo this. This elk hunt, how it worked out. And I'm like, I Don't know if it's out doing it, but, like, you can continue to have some pretty epic adventures. And, man, just what an incredible adventure. And to have her sister there and to have Heather help pack out, and then Mike and Joe, like, lend a hand. It was just. It made the hunt so awesome. And to have, like, the support of good friends and good hunting buddies, and it. It was just incredible, you know? And so we packed up that next day and. And drove in, got the. Got the Billy checked in, grabbed some breakfast, and, man, it was just like, one of the best hunts. One of the funny things, too, is, you know, like, after you get so disoriented when you're up that high, like, you. You get a little bit of, like, you know, it's almost like vertigo. And think about, like, when you're on a boat and you're out on the ocean all day and, you know, you're rocking, and then you get back home, you jump in the shower or lay down in bed, and it feels like you're moving. That next night, after. After, when we went to bed, I'm like. I told my wife, Danielle, I'm like, do I think I'm gonna throw. Like, I feel seasick. Like, I feel like I'm falling off a mountain. Can you? Like, it's almost like. It's like. I feel like I'm walking as weird. It's like, almost like the boat rocking. Like, I'm. She's like, the same for me. And then we called her sister Jesse. She's like, yeah, it feels like I'm, like, walking on a mountain. I was like, yeah, I don't know. Something about going up that high. I don't know if it's a little bit of altitude, whatever, but I was like, wow. Yeah, we. We just went fast and furious and. And made it off the mountain. It still felt like we were walking on the mountain for a couple days after. Every time you close your eyes, felt like you're walking on the mountain, just almost like being so high, it kind of messes with your equilibrium a lot. But it was just like, definitely one of the coolest hunts and. And to see it work out like that hunt. Oh, the other thing, too. When we woke up that next morning, socked in, snowing on the top, like, a bunch of big weather came in. It would have been a rough. Would have been a rough week with me probably very little spotting in action, just because the weather would have. Wasn't very conducive for what we were trying to do. Like, it snowed quite a bit where we were at and the mountains are just completely socked in that next day. So who knows? I'm glad that it worked out how it did and we got, we got in and got out and, and wow, that was really quick. I'm like, when you were on the mountain, it felt like, it felt we did a week's worth of hunting in two days. You know, it was like we definitely did a lot of climbing and got into some crazy country, but we got it done and got a, you know, an awesome billy to show for it. As the safety coordinator of the mountain goat expedition, I think there's a few things that I like to kind of go over when I'm hunting with people or even just things that I do when I'm, I'm going into that like really rough, cliffy, steep country and you don't have to be on a mountain goat to encounter this kind of country. I've encountered on, in elk hunts, on, you know, bird hunts, like, whatever. One of the things that I think, you know, was, was a huge game changer for us on this trip that used to not be able to do so much was just in that rough country, tracking your route. And I don't use the track feature a lot because I, you know, I'm really good at navigating my way. But in the dark, when it's like if you're a little bit off, you might find yourself standing on the top of a 500,000 foot cliff, you know, or could get yourself into a situation where you get cliffed up and have to go back or whatever. Having that track was key to just being able to get those guys to where we were able to pack out together. And not only that, but being able to, to get our route back down, it was just, you know, that, that was a game changer because otherwise we would have, you know, we had plans where we could have stayed, we could found a cave and could have popped into that cave and hung out for the night and waited through a little bit of weather and then. But the next morning would have been completely fogged in. Everything would have been a lot slicker, possibly some snow, would have been a lot harder. Would have been doable, but harder. And so it, it was, you know, awesome to have that route tracked, to be able to follow that back. Another thing to think about when you're in that rough country is just because you can get up something doesn't mean you can get back down it up. Climbing is easy because you can see all your handholds You're. You're putting that force and pressure up when you're coming down. Gravity's kind of taking you. You're. You're. Sometimes your. Your steps and your footing are a little bit more off balance and off kilter. As you go over things, you kind of lose bounce, especially with a heavy pack. I've been in the scariest situations. I've been in mountain hunting, especially like in New Zealand, where you're kind of doing this stuff every day for a month. You. I put myself in a situation one time where I climbed up and there was no physical way that I could get back down the way they climbed up. It was hands. It was like, very pretty, technical climbing to retrieve this chamois that a client had shot. And when I got there, like, it is actually a kind of a moment in my life where I kind of didn't really have, like a. I never really liked cliffs and ledges just because I didn't trust myself around them. But, like, kind of from that moment on, I think I kind of got, like, a healthy dose of fear of the mountain because I put myself in a position where I didn't think that I was going to be able to get out of it. And it was very humbling in a way, and very scary. I ended up climbing up to the top of the mountain. Like, I was committed, and I was like, I can't go down. I knew that I wouldn't survive going down the way that I came up. And so I continued to climb up, which is even worse, like. And I ended up climbing up to the top and finding route down from the top, so it was okay. But I think I've told the story before, but it was. It was treacherous. And like, you. You kind of gotta, you know, know that if you're going up something, you gotta think that, like, can I get back down this? Do I have another route? What's my. What's my plan gonna be? Because just because you can get up doesn't mean you can get back down it. And getting back down is just as important as getting up, if not more so. It's always something to think about in that nasty country. And then the thing that I kept stressing, you know, and one thing that I tell people, I think about any, like, bad spills and falls that I've had, I like to tell people, you know, three points of contact. Use your trekking poles. I've got a set of, like, our golly trekking poles. They're awesome, like, carbon fiber and they're light it's easy to have and just that extra point of contact, especially with a heavy pack and stability helps. And you move one thing at a time. Don't be moving everything in time. Especially when you're going down and it's real steep and slick and technical. Keeping your footing is really important. Even like going through that boulder field with that heavier pack. Like it was really important to do that. And then the other thing that I tell people is like never put both feet on the same rock. Even sometimes if it's a big rock. The times that I've really taken some spills, I think I've done it maybe once and I've seen it happen before, maybe twice. Is like some of those rocks in that steep country, it's a, it's a good sized rock, but it's not rooted in anything. Like it's, it's in the dirt and with a little bit of weight and shifting gravity's just forcing that thing down. And you step up on that little rock with both your feet and it's got your weight plus your pack weight and it can give. And when it gives, you can make some moves and you can, you can tumble. And that's scary. That's how people get get into, you know, really bad situations. I've seen it happen. It's happened to me. I always tell people, never put your feet on the same rock. Spread them out, have something else, you know, those three points of contact. And don't put two feet on the same rock. And if you can do that, you know, you're in good hands. The other thing I tell people too is one thing that I prep the girls on is like, if we're going up something steep and let's say a rock breaks loose as you're above someone, yell what the danger is. Yell rock. Because then the person knows, okay, the direction which the danger is coming and what I might be looking out for. If like this happens all the time, especially when you're in bear countries, I was like, oh my God, look out. Like where do you look? Is it a grizzly bear? Like what are we looking for? Maybe there's no grizzly. If you aren't in grizzly country, maybe it's apparent, but, but you know, yelling what the danger is so the person knows where it's coming from and what that danger is immediately makes everybody downhill a lot safer. But being careful of, you know, staying tight packed when you're in that country, you know, making sure no one's directly below, especially a long distance below when you're going up or down, because those are probably the primary injury factors of loose rocks, rolling rocks, and, you know, potential for slipping or people getting themselves into a. Into a hairy situation that they can't get themselves back out of. But having that track on, you know, you know, not doing something crazy and then, you know, watching where you're going and the route that you take doing all those things is going to make you a lot safer and able to hunt a lot more mountains, you know, for years to come. I hope you guys enjoyed that hunt story. It's always fun to be able, like, during the season to dive into these stories and share these kind of stories with you guys. You know, for me, that was like, that was just that it's a hunt that my wife and I will talk about for the rest of our lives. And there's a lot, you know, I've been. I'm very fortunate that I get to go on a lot of hunts with people for myself, but, like, some just stand out more than others, and that was one of them. There's something about mountain goat hunting. It is absolutely, in some gnarly country, difficult, dangerous. Like, I was like, this is a once in a lifetime hunt for me. Like, she's like, I've done it. I don't know if I need to hunt a mountain goat again. I'm like, I feel you. Like, I know exactly. But I was like, it's the type 2 kind of fun where I'm like, a few years from now, you're gonna be sitting there and like, man, that. Remember that. Like, because we just talk about it so much and think about it so much, and like, man, that was so epic. Like, I'd love to do another hunt like that. You know, I was like, well, would you do another? I was like, what about. Would you go on if you had, like, a doll sheep tag, would you go? She's like, oh, yeah, absolutely. I'd go, okay. Yeah, I know. It's like, that's. That's the addiction to the mountain hunting is like. It's so hard, so difficult, and it could have been so much. We talk about that too. Like, how much harder it could have been. We could have been, you know, in a way different spot. Like, hit that weather could have hit. Like, it could have been. It could have ended a lot of different ways and not the way that it did. It ended in the best way possible and, like, feel very blessed and very fortunate how it worked out. But, man, what a. What a hunt and something that we're going to talk about for a long time and then think about. And excited to, you know, relive that especially too and get the mount back and you get kind of like relive that memory, that adventure. Adventure. We made mountain goat biria. Probably one of the best wild game meals I've had. Like, I call mountain goat alpine antelope. The meat, you know, like pork pigs you get are called pork. Cows are called beef. Mountain goats should be called alpine antelope. They taste nothing. Oh, they aren't technically a goat. They're a goat. Alope. I guess alopa goat. They're more, they taste more like African antelope than they do goats. Like, very, very like mild flavor. They don't stink like a goat. Like, they're really, really good eating. Man, we made the best tacos. We, we brought it over and shared it with my wife's sister and her family and everyone just crushed them. Like, like we didn't know what to expect. Like, we didn't think it was going to be this good. You say goat and it's like, I don't know. It was absolutely incredible. Like, it's some of the best meat. Like, it's really good. It reminds me very similar to pronghorn. I guess people have had bad pronghorn experiences. I never have. I think it's really good. So. But it, it was incredible meat. But what an awesome fun way to, to share the memory of the hunt is like, you know, share that meal with the friends and people that were there and, and get to enjoy it that way. And then when that's all gone, you know, it'll be cool because we get to be able to look at that mountain and relive those, those adventures and that story and think about that hunt together. It was just a, just an awesome, epic day. One of the things too, before we go, that I want to mention, incredible supporter of this podcast, Onyx Hunt. One of the, you know, I mentioned it in the, in the podcast. I mean, it's, it's an absolute game changer to be able to have that track, especially in this kind of country. But think about anywhere you may be like, I'm in a new spot. I've never been here. Being able to track where you're at, where you're going, look at, you know, being able to pull up the map and be like, you know, measuring the distance. Okay, we're where that Billy was. We're like 380 yards. He's somewhere in here. Okay, where can we get an air shot from or an angle on it maybe, okay, let's plan this route out. Like, I was in that app all day. Like, especially while just sitting there, like, okay, if we this happens, we can go here, we can go there. I think we'll be able to get around this cliff. I don't know about that cliff. Like that. Look at that. Looks pretty gnarly. Just utilizing it for hunt planning and then just, you know, and then the ability to share that. Like, okay, before, back in the day, like, okay, you got a gps, you can track your route. Great. But you can't send that to your buddy who's going to help you come pack out. Now you can just send that, track your money. Like, here's where I am, here's how you should get here. Like, absolute game changing for that kind of stuff. Like, it. It allowed the benefit of having people be able to get up there that day and us be able to get off the mountain before that crazy weather hit and get off safer than had. We just hung out and waited, you know, like it was. It was absolutely a game changer for that. So, as always, you guys can use code livewild. If you're like, I don't have a subscription or mine is lapsed or I want to upgrade to a premium, you can use code livewild and get. I think it's 20% off on Onyx, so. And then if you're a premium member, you get all the states and other gear deals and stuff like that, which is awesome. So something to think about if you don't. I assume everybody has it, but you never know. Somebody's like, oh, I haven't used it in a while, need to renew my subscription or whatever can use that code, save you guys a little bit of money. So I'm just gonna say until next week, hunt high. We're gonna watch out for the cliffs. I don't know, just catch. You guys sa.