← Live Wild with Remi Warren
Live Wild with Remi Warren
Ep. 237 | Meet the coaches: Pre Season Prep with MTNTOUGH's Sarah and Nick
00:56:17
Join us as we explore the comprehensive training programs designed for hunters and mountain athletes, featuring insights from Sarah and Nick of Mountaintuff. Discover how their innovative approaches improve performance, prevent injuries, and prepare you for the demands of backcountry hunting.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. I'm Remy Warren and I've lived my life in the wild as a professional guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days perfecting my craft. I want to give that knowledge to you. In this podcast we relive some of my past adventures as I give you practical hunting tips to make you more successful. Whether you're just getting started or a lifelong hunter, this podcast will bring you along on the hunt and teach you how to Live Wild Podcast is brought to you by Mountain Tough and Yeti. If you really want to utilize a lot of this information from the podcast in the field, one of the best ways to do that is to be physically ready for the hunt. And that's really why I've partnered with Mountain Tough. So if you aren't familiar with it, Mountain Tough is an online training app designed for hunters with a ton of added benefit. In addition to the fitness programs built for that backcountry hunting, you also get access to nutrition and recovery guides for on and off the mountain mental toughness training and this really great in app community that connects you with other Mountain Toughers and coaches. This app is packed with value to help you stay ready and right now Mountain Tough is giving our LiveWild listeners a free six week trial when they sign up for the monthly plan using code livewild. To get started in the journey, go to mountaintough.com that's m t n t o u g h dot com when you're out there doing it the hard way, the right way, you need gear that shows up every time. That's why I trust yeti. Whether it's keeping meat cold for the trip home or your coffee hot before daylight, Yeti just flat works, built tough, no shortcuts. Check out their full lineup@yeti.com and see why it's become a part of my system season after season. Welcome back to Live Wild Podcast everyone. Now this week we're going to talk about getting physically ready for the hunt. It's that time of year, draw results are coming out, hunt plans are starting to be made. So I thought it'd be fun to have a couple guests this week and do a little bit of a meet and greet of the coaches and today I'm joined by Sarah Nick from Mountain Tough. So we're going to look at some of the new things they have and are bringing into training based on their lab learnings and we're going to talk about different training zones and then dive into their new preseason prep 3.0. What you need and the biggest takeaway prior to the season. So let's dive in and learn with two of the best coaches out there. You know, one of the things that I wanted to mention as we start to prep for the season, if you're looking for some gear, a piece of gear that's very integral to the hunt is optics. An incredible supporter of this podcast, Vortex Optics has what you need. They've got rifle scopes, spotting scopes, binoculars, everything that you might need to get yourself kitted out for whatever hunt you have coming up now because they have so many different offerings and a ton of different products, they also on their website, have an optics finder. So you can go to vortexoptics.com you can click on the optics finder and then it breaks it down based on category and helps you find the perfect optic for your particular hunt style, particular hunt and price range. It's an incredible way to just look at a lot of different things based on the type of hunting you're doing. So you could go in there, you can go spotting scopes, it'll say like hunting, shooting, wildlife observation. I would assume for the people listening to the podcast, you go into hunting and then it splits it out even further going backcountry hunting, day hunting, and then gives you the options in there between the three levels of optics, from good, better, and best. It's a really good way to kind of see what they have and tailor something to your specific budget and or hunt type. So it's an incredible resource. It's on vortexoptics.com and if you guys are looking for optics, you can also head over to my website, RemyWarren.com I have some of my favorites on there. The things that I've tested that are tried and true. Some of the things that I take into the field on pretty much every hunt are on there. So you can check that out as well. Remy warren.com or you can go to vortexoptics.com to help you get set up for season. All right, Nick and Sarah, thank you guys so much for joining me this week. I'm excited to, in some ways, introduce you guys to our audience. And I'm sure that there's a lot of people that are going to hear your voice or see this video and be like, I know them. I know them very well. They, I've, I've worked out alongside them for years. But for those out there that maybe don't know, I kind of want to dive in and get to. Let's get to know you guys a little bit more and what you do at Mountain Tough. And then also, you know, how you help hunters get ready for the season. Because one of the things this time of year, it's like you can kind of, in a lot of people maybe think of hunting not as often in the other times of year, but as soon as tag draws start coming out, as soon as actual real plans go, they go, oh, it's time to get ready for this hunt, that hunt. And sometimes, you know, it's. There's a little bit more motivation there when you know exactly what, what you have, what your goal is that particular year. So, yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you guys for joining me. If you guys want to just kind of, let's. Let's run through your backgrounds a little bit because I know, Sarah, your background is different than Nick's background, but you guys are working together toward, you know, in a lot of ways, a similar goal. So, Sarah, let's. Let's kind of dive into how you got started and where you came from and then how that translated into Mountain Tough.
- [05:36]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So my background is primarily from athletics, so I was a collegiate soccer player. Played Division 1 college soccer for Vanderbilt University in Nashville. Grew up in Tennessee, and I've been a trainer for almost 20 years. So pushing, pushing 18, 19 years now. Knew immediately that it was something I wanted to do forever. Like, it. Not just because I love to work out, but just because I loved the teaching part, like the actual training, like teaching somebody that knows nothing about something I know like the back of my hand. And I really loved it. Started off training youth athletes, athletic training, and then actually had a pretty big collection, like bodybuilders, like in Nashville. It's just like a whole different culture there. And then when I moved to Montana, it was such a breath of fresh air to start training more. It was general population, but the population here loves to do really cool things. They love to, you know, backcountry hunt, they love to hike, they love to kayak, they love to mountain bike. They love to do so many active things. So shifting that from an aesthetically driven, like, you know, training base to a performance driven training base was so cool. And I loved it. Dove straight in, still was training young athletes, you know, strength and conditioning and then. Yeah, and loved it. Just loved every minute. I was just, I did the, you know, just gym life trainer, you know, training seven, eight clients a day. Loved every minute. And then. And Dustin and I had always been on each other's radar, I guess, in the Bozeman community of like, just like, he's doing cool Stuff I kind of brought a different, I guess, approach to training versus like the typical trainer mentality in Bozeman. So we'd always kind of, like I said, been on each other's radar. Covid hit I built a home gym so I could still work, I could still keep that ball rolling. And then you know, after about a year and a half I was like, I need to leave my house, I gotta leave my house, I gotta get out, you know, and gave Dustin a call and at that time I just went and had a meeting with him. And then like the next day it was like a no brainer. I started, you know, training my current clients at the Mountain Tough gym. And then just slowly but surely, you know, Dustin brought me on to just kind of help program and help collaborate, bring in some fresh ideas for new programs. And at that point the app wasn't launched yet. It was just the like essentially one or two programs that Mountain Tough had created and how it started and when I came on board it was so fun. I mean my first program was pre deployment, like yeehaw. Like it was. And I was like, this is just, you know, so much fun to work with a couple other trainers and really collaborate and then the rest is history. So I've been with mountaintuff for almost five years now and this demographic has been, it's so cool, it's so cool to create very interesting programs that are mentally challenging, that are, that are scientifically proven. We test them and then put them out. And having that confidence behind what you're doing and you have a group of people that is willing to put in the work to make sure this product does what we say it's gonna do. And yeah. And so I slowly started and now head trainer for Mountain Tough. It's so exciting. It's really pushed me out of my comfort zone as a trainer. Creating 12 week programs with minimal gear to get you the same, same outcome as a full gym program. It's, it's the best kind of discomfort as far as just can, you know, what can I work with and how can I, you know, create the same results? So. And then, and then, yeah, when Nick came on board what, three years ago, it was like, it's just with his background and he'll go into that, his physical therapy background. It, it's just like Mountain Tough took such a wonderful turn because Mountain Tough has always been phenomenal, but it's always been this like you train hard, you put your notes to the grindstone every day and it's going to reap the reward of being mentally tough and very fit if you can stay healthy. But now we have a much safer approach. Our community is much larger, and so we have to be more intentional and deliberate about how we put out our programs and how we lay that out for somebody. Because we're not all the 3% of sheep hunters. Right. We're not all that elite athlete level, so. And I'll let Nick kind of dive into his background, but, yeah, that's kind of how I got here.
- [10:38]
A
That's awesome.
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C
Yeah. So my background just grew up a couple hours away in Billings, Montana. Had a. Had an athletic background. Grew up playing baseball, football, kind of everything, doing all the Montana outdoor stuff. Did some hunting with my dad, with my older brother. That's kind of how I got exposed to it. So everything around here, and then again, kind of slightly different path to get here. I pursued physical therapy school in college. I was kind of exposed to that through my own personal injuries. Very common for PTs, you know, out there, they. They have their own injury, go to pt, they're like, hey, this is pretty cool. I want to do this. So I had my. Had a couple of shoulder dislocations, had surgery, had PT, went that route. So I've been a PT now for almost 10 years here in Bozeman for most of that time. And my wife and I actually branched off from a clinic that we were working at here in town and started our own clinic. And during that time we had been working out at Mountain Tough when they had in person classes. Really enjoyed it. Loved the kind of community aspect, really loved pushing ourselves hard. And as we kind of grew our own personal business, there was an opportunity that Dustin had, you know, provided to us to open a, Open a location inside of the Mountain Tough lab here where we're currently at. So we did that. We're seeing clients out of here. And then as kind of the daily filming grew, the mgds grew. There were more opportunities, they needed more coaches, and it was just kind of an easy fit. Like, we knew, we knew the programming, we had done the programming.
- [11:58]
A
They.
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C
There was an opportunity for me to jump in and join as a coach and I, I took that opportunity. So now, you know, assisting, assisting Sarah as the head coach. I'm. I'm another coach here that films the program. So I, I film and program the gym daily and then also program some of the MCDs. So like Sarah kind of mentioned, I think what I kind of bring to the table is a little bit more of that rehab aspect. Obviously, these programs are still very challenging but working personally with a lot of clients in Montana who are mountain athletes, who are hunters, who deal with some of these injuries that we see repeatedly, like, how can we work some of that stuff into these programs to where we can maybe prevent some of these things or reduce the risk of that happening without having to pe. Without having people get those injuries and then have to come see someone like myself. So I think that is. Is kind of been a big change in Mountain Tough even since I've been a part of it. Obviously, we all know that a lot of it's just like pushing that heart rate, pushing as hard as you can. But now, as Sarah said, as we grow, as more people come into this, as, you know, as our. As our hunters are getting a little bit older and we start getting some of those aches and pains, how can we accommodate them through the program, still provide that mental toughness, that physical training, but be just a little bit more thoughtful behind how we approach that?
- [13:10]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. I think you guys have a great mix in there too, because that sports athlete background is, you know, when. When people think of hunting and then training like, you know, like you might a Division 1 soccer player or having that sports background, it's. You are training for a specific task as opposed to just getting ready. And I think that, you know, over the years, like before, you know, knowing about mountain Tough or anything like that, it was always like, tag's coming. Better figure out how to get ready for this hunt. And then what would happen is guys would throw on the pack, do whatever they'd be like, going hard, like, without really any direction, probably stuff that didn't necessarily work. Well, this happened to my dad. He had a sheep hunt coming up, injures himself, right? And then he's like, well, right, what do we do? And. And knowing. And then like, and then combining that, your. Your background with that PT background and saying like, you know, that is one thing that I've noticed like over the years too, is you guys specifically speak. And I can tell because I've had some of these injuries, like, specifically speak to a lot of the injuries that do happen. It's like the knee thing, shoulders, probably a big one in the hunting world, you know, that kind of stuff. And it's like, okay, here's a way, like you're always mentioning, here's how you can modify it. If you've got some pain there or you got these things going on and still get through that workout and get the benefit from it. It's hugely, I mean, beneficial. And I Can see the value too of, of There's a lot of people that come in and it's like, man, I just came off an injury or man, I just, I'm just starting and so to be able to on ramp them properly and get them going, that's huge. Like, I think it's just an incredible mix and, and honestly, like, I feel like the program's this the best it's ever been. Right. It just continually gets better. Every time you guys add something, I'm like, oh yeah. Like it's just, it's continually improving because you think you're like, ah, yeah, you could go, you could go back and, and try some of those. There's still like that evergreen of like a lot of these things you could use forever, right? Like you could go back in there, but then you also, you notice like some of the changes and some of the things that you, you're seeing. It's. It's awesome. I, I love like where it's going and what you guys have brought to the table. It's been cool when you touched on
- [15:28]
C
a good point, I think trying to get, you know, hunters and mountain athletes to think more of, of like, think of themselves as athletes and, and having that year long progression because you know, a lot of people probably aren't spending as many days on the field as you might be, Remy. But you know, they might have that one season they're training for, but the rest of the year we want to keep them in some sort of shape. It doesn't have to be peaking for that season. You're going to feel a lot better year to year when you don't have to scramble to rush and train and maybe over train, you know, like your dad might have done. That would lead to injuries. So like why not stay in some sort of shape all year round and then when the season comes around, let's, let's ramp it up and get ready for that hunt.
- [16:04]
A
Yeah, it's awesome. Like the, the programs that you can kind of curtail to different seasons because it is, it's like we have this seasonality to hunting and it's like there's the, there's that like postseason then I, I almost start at the end of the season, right? Because it's like you have the season and then you know, depending on what you're doing during the season, then you've got that postseason and you've got that preseason. And even as you get closer to the season, like really kind of curtailing it to avoid injury to maintain that strength and that year round program is what is so beneficial. Like when you think about it as thinking and focusing. Like I'm training for my specific sport, backcountry hunting. Hunting, mountain hunting, life in general probably should be added in there. And then, you know, having that program year round, you're right. It's, it's like an incredible, incredible mix. And then obviously, you know, I've talked in the past a lot too about the importance of the nutrition aspect and all those things which you guys, you guys also hit on huge. Oh, I did, I did notice. I saw. Is there the nutrition thing you guys got what? Dude, I saw. Yeah, Kyle's doing. Was it like 30 sign ups and then that's it. Is that, are those full?
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C
Yeah, they're just taking small, little, small cohorts. So it can be a little bit more, a little bit more smaller groups working with him more to really dial in and kind of the process that he uses with his clients on a regular basis so that we can have, have those people within the mountain tough community really dial in their nutrition.
- [17:35]
A
Yeah, Kyle's great. I've had him on the podcast before and talked with him in length on some different nutrition stuff. Like he makes it so dang easy. Like it's like. Yeah, it's crazy.
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B
Yeah. He doesn't overcomplicate it. That's what I love about his approach. And I think it's going to really catapult or transform a lot of people to be able to grasp that it just takes consistency and knowing why you're shifting your nutrition for certain reasons. I think some people are like, I eat this many carbs and this much protein, but why, why are you shifting data? Like, you know, I think under just like training, just why are you doing it? The more you understand why, the more motivated you're gonna stay, the more invested you'll be in your journey and all the things. But.
- [18:26]
C
And a lot of that stuff I think just goes back to a baseline level of health. I mean, we want to keep people physically fit, keep them feeling good. Nutrition is just another part of that. Like we want to get, get people to a, you know, a healthy weight somewhere where they feel good, they can recover well. And then how can you change that nutrition when you are going on a long hunt or when you do have an event? And he's great at doing, doing that.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But yeah, I mean our sport, the sport that we're training for is essentially the ultimate over training. And so actually just to go back, like as you said, the seasonality of it We've, Nick and I have talked a lot about this, about how you like training. It doesn't go like this. It's not this linear progression up a hill. It's. You have to, there's, there's ebbs and flows to it. And I'm sure anybody that's done any sort of like longer training program understands that. It's just, you don't just get stronger perpetually for the rest of your life, you know, otherwise we'd all be power lifters. But, but I think with that having post season spring training camp and then preseason prep, we have to spit you out at the end of preseason prep ready to over train. But in that process we can't over train you.
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A
Right.
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B
Like we do. We literally, we balance on that fence line right. The whole time. But if we pack on like too much volume too soon in a 16 week program, that wear and tear is gonna hit you at the wrong time. Right. So I think that is a huge distinction in maybe some past programming that we really took into consideration with 3.0 is where, where do the shifts need to happen? Where did the deloads need to happen? Where does the volume need to jump? How if we make that volume jump, where does, where does the other, other things, the conditioning need to give like all of that. And so we really had some sincere intention behind the true like journey through the 16 weeks. And that's what it feels like. I feel so confident about it. Is that. But yeah, I mean our sport is the ultimate over training event and there's so much that goes into that. Just like if you're a tennis player, you're going to overuse your one shoulder. Yeah, right. That's a non negotiable. You're going to train differently. You're not just going to train your right arm in the gym. It's like a, you have to be kind of think of it a different way, approach it a different way.
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A
Yeah, that's. I know like when you come out with a program, right. There's so much like you say, here's this program. I mean how many months was it to develop this program? Because a lot of the stuff that you guys do has that the training based off of the lab learning. And so I know you guys like did like you said, tweaked a few things specifically like in this 3.0 program, what are some of the things you guys learned, some of the things that you wanted to add into the training for like you say for the hunter where you're, you're maximizing and towing that line. What are some of the things that you guys learned that you're, like, incorporating into this new program?
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C
Yeah, so I would say, like, going back on the time frame, I think we probably spent the better part of a year really developing this and testing it in the lab, going back and tweaking it. And I think what we've learned over the years is we need to be a little bit more intentional with how we balance the intensity. It's not just every single day. We're going to do every workout as hard as we can, because I think that's classically how some of these programs have been, and it's great. But, you know, even as we personally get a little bit older, it's hard to. It's hard to do that day in and day out, and it probably isn't the best thing to do that all the time. So I think the biggest change to this program is being more diligent with how we change that intensity. We've added in some lower intensity zone, two days on purpose to develop that aerobic base. And we also have added in what we would just call body armor days, where you kind of think of that as more just like your traditional prehab, where it's movements that you might see a PT provide. They're still challenging movements, but they're movements that are going to increase the durability around some of those more susceptible joints, like the shoulder, like the hip, like the knee, like the low back. That's kind of what we typically see in a lot of hunters, especially bow hunters. Shoulder injuries are huge there. But anybody that's going to be carrying weight, we want to make sure that we address some of those imbalances along with our bigger strength movements, along with our conditioning movements. So that, again, you're building that fitness, you're building that mental toughness, but you're also building that durability.
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A
Yeah, that's awesome.
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B
And that's the kind of stuff none of us like to do on our own. Like, none of us. We're not going to be like, hey, guys, go and do three banded shoulder exercises. Good luck. Like, I don't know about you, but I need to be told exactly what to do when it comes to the tedious things that you don't think matter, but when done consistently and over time, make the most powerful difference. And that's like Nick said, we're not getting any younger. Right. So that cusp of, like, training hard in recovery, it's like that recovery's sneaking up on us. And so Dedicating that. That day each week in phase one and three to body armor. I. It's going to make a difference if people take it just as seriously as their squat day or their deadlift day. And that is what is going to make the difference on day four and five. Right? When your shoulders start to ache from your pack and you've had this rounded shoulder posture or your lower back starts to give, it's like all of that. It's all related to posture, right? And when it comes to loading, you know, carrying a pack day after day, like, posture is what's gonna keep you from those aches and pains. And so. And yeah, once again, strength and mobility around the joints and all of that. So I think it was a. It was definitely a shift for mountain tough because it's always like, we don't do zone two. And I'm like, the science is out there. Zone two is pivotal for just for building, conditioning, recovery and things like that. Now, we. We designed it. It's not like you're going to be prescribed 40 minutes of zone two. We've kind of broke it up, kept it a little bit more interesting, you know, just to keep, you know, people engaged. But there's definitely intention behind it.
- [24:49]
C
Yeah, we had. And a few of us from the lab went on a. Went on a hunt last season kind of as we were testing some of this and purposely just picked a hunt that was going to be miserable. We're going to have our packs on all day, like, bad terrain just to kind of. I mean, obviously we wanted to go on a hunt, but we wanted to test out. Well, we kind of wanted to test out. Like, how do we hold up to some of this? Like, if we're going to say, like, hey, you. You should be able to have that pack on all day, wake up the next day, be able to do it again. Like, we kind of want to put. Put our money where our mouth is. And. And we all did it. It was. It was a challenging. It was a challenging hunt, but we all felt pretty good. I mean, you still wake up in the morning a little bit sore, but the biggest thing is, like, can you wake up and get that back on? Everything's feeling good enough to just get right back after it. And that's kind of our goal with it. Like, you don't want to have half a day spent in the tent because you're recovering from something that popped up during that hunt.
- [25:35]
A
Yeah, I know, like, through guiding the thing that I would always. You just. You just start to notice things that are like consistent year after year. And it's like the thing that people would complain about like what would hurt, what would be sore is always, they'd be like I didn't even know this muscle existed. I didn't know that. It's never something big, it's always something small. And it's because it's the small things that you don't in your day to day life think about stretching out or working and they're really hard to work because you grab something heavy and you lift it up. It's like, yeah, those are major muscles making that movement and it's doing it in a short amount of time. But day 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 of like having this pack and being on uneven terrain, your feet have never, you haven't sat in a chair and you've been sleeping on the ground and you're always kind of in a weird position and, and whatever. And then it's like, oh yeah, that little thing here that I never even probably never worked, moved, whatever that I just didn't hit in anything else. I did. That's the thing that, that literally slows people down. It's the thing that gets sore. It's like the, the, the problem. And then like you said too it the thing that causes injuries the most because they just are not used to it. I think, I think that that's, that's an awesome added benefit because it is, it's the little stuff, I don't even know like those little muscles.
- [27:00]
C
We had someone ask us a question the other day about like why do you, why do we do single leg exercises? Which just sounds kind of like a silly thing or like a single arm exercise. But it's because it addresses those imbalances. Like we have people all the time, they're like well why can't I just throw the pack on and go ruck and train for it? And you could like you're still going to build fitness to that. I, but you're not going to address some of those imbalances that as you're, as you're doing a multi day hunt, things start to fatigue. Those other little small muscles start to take over. If you haven't addressed those imbalances, that's where those problems kick in. So that's why we add a lot of that single sided work, that asymmetrical work we call it to address a lot of the imbalances that we all have.
- [27:34]
B
Yeah, we talked to Randy because we, we just wrapped up on our always ready 50 plus program. So we've been Training Randy in the lab like almost every day for the last 12 weeks. And the other day he's like, God, why do we always have to hold that heavy thing in just one hand? Why not just two hands so you balance. And I literally said to him, I was like, when in the world are you perfectly balanced? Like when you're out on a hunt, you're holding your rifle, your weapon in one hand, you have probably not a perfectly loaded pack. Like life isn't symmetrical. Life isn't even right. So it's like if the first time side hilling, we all have those asymmetries whether we like it or not. And I said, if out on the mountain is the first time you feel that offset load, that's gonna sneak up way quicker than you think. So we have to train like that. Now we can only simulate our environment so much in the gym, right? But holding a 35 pound dumbbell and hitting a set of marches or is hitting a set of step ups, that's not going to be an awkward feeling when you go to, you know, hit that ridgeline, you know, over rugged terrain. Like you're going to, you're going to be like, oh, this feels familiar, you know, and be able to adjust accordingly and avoid those little aches and pains.
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A
Yeah, that's, that's the biggest thing is like it is never, it's either the weight's back and you're forward, you're left to this. It's, it's always, it's always a balance. And when you, when you do it all the time, your body like does such a good job of just ignoring all that and making you a gyro where it's like you're straight, you're doing it doesn't matter. But if it's the first time, it's I. You see it all the time. It's like, oh, this, this neat. Like everything starts to overcompensate and you just is hard to recover from that.
- [29:26]
B
Man. When we've tested, I always remember this. When we tested our sandbag program, our first sandbag program, I remember like on like end of week two, I was like, if somebody does this program, they are going to be like bulletproof because it's like, because it trained our bodies in such a way that I like it was hard in such a different way because the stabilization, nothing was ever even every day. And I was like, God, my core just feels so strong just from holding that sandbag, not even doing an exercise with it, just from holding it on one side or the Other or picking it up or dragging it across the ground or bear crawling with it. And I was like, if somebody does this sandbag, they're gonna be. They're gonna be like, top to bottom, resilient.
- [30:14]
A
Yeah. The thing that I loved about it, like, you. It's weird because you'll do something. They might be up here. Like, I think the one that always surprised me is, like, putting between your arms, like, 90 degrees sandbags up here, and it's like, yeah. And then there's like. Like in different places in your back. It's like, yeah, he's getting your shoulders, but like, mid. Like, different places in your back are now taking over. And I'm like, this mimics a pack out in a short amount of time better than anything else. And it's weight on your front, not on your back. You're like, what? Like, I felt like my back was so strong after that. Like, comparatively, especially because a pack, you know, he's like transferring a lot to your hips and other things. You start to get a little tired. It's always like that middle back or upper. Like, there's some place in your back, but just that unevenness from the sandbags. I loved how I just felt like, like you said, your core and your. Your whole trunk, your whole system felt way more every.
- [31:09]
B
Everything's working always. Like, you know, you're not just working arms today. You're not just working legs. Everything is always being worked.
- [31:18]
C
And that's. That's a good concept to go back to when we talk about this new program, preseason prep 3.0. Like, we've incorporated a lot of.
- [31:23]
A
We.
- [31:24]
C
What we've learned from those sandbag programs and from a lot of the pack workouts that we've done to put into this program. So we include a lot of those aspects so that people don't have to. They can if they want to, but they don't have to go and do that program to get all the benefits from the sandbag use. We want to put that within this program, too.
- [31:39]
A
Yeah. That's awesome. I, you know, like, packing out is one of the things that obviously it's the. The end goal and the. The high use of why you want to get ready and the. The like weight distribution and everything like that makes such a big difference. Like, if you've got a pack on, it's all packed. Nice. That's great. But then if you go throw it ahead in antlers and that weight starts throwing round or that weight's further back, or you got to pull your, you know, I. I've done this so many times where I'm like, I'm not. I'd rather make one trip than two trips. Let's load her down. Let's pull the, you know, let's. I got the load shelf loaded. I got the pack loaded. I got. I'm carrying my gear in my hands, right? I'm like, I don't know why I do that, you know? And it's just like, it changes the weight, changes the way your body reacts to it. And if you haven't done that, you're. It's. You're gonna either get hurt or you're just gonna get smoked. And it's. It's like you just. That's. I feel like I want to train for those packout days because that's, that's the ultimate goal. And I've never been the type of person in my life be like, nah, that's too far. You never thought that in my life. I'm like, dude, we've killed. Me and my brother killed these elk in a fog neck. They're like the size of a moose. So it'd be like 1400 pounds, something like that. You gotta pack everything out. And there was a 5,000 foot climb. I think it was a 3,500 foot climb in between, but both ways. So 6,000 vert each way, like through the brush. No trails, no way, dude. It took us 40. We, we GPS. It was 40 walking hours with over 100 pound packs to get those elk out. And it was like, these are the most brutal thing we've ever done. And we're like, but yeah, we killed elk. We're the only two people that killed elk that season there, you know? So you're like, yeah, never. Maybe I should. But I think it's like if you, if you can look across the canyon, see the zone and say like, yep, we're going for it, dude. Your. Your success goes up. And that not having that fear of being able to get it out is, Is huge.
- [33:40]
C
Yeah, that's another great point. Like, and we don't want your fitness to limit your hunt because, like, you know, you've all been there where you're pretty deep in there. You're like, oh, man, do we go further? Or if you're like, man, my legs are already pretty smoked. I can't imagine going up that climb. But what if that's where the elk are? Yeah, like, you don't want your fitness to limit your. Your hunter or limit your success on those hunts.
- [33:58]
A
No, I mean, I, I've Been a part of so many where guys are like, ah, I don't want to look over there because I don't want to find one over there. I was like, well, do we want to find one or do you just want to. Yeah, like, you're gonna do a lot more work over the next 10 days marching around in places that suck to not find something to just go over there, kill an elk and come out. And it's like, if you don't do it well, we'll just do it again, you know? But I know that's a huge thing.
- [34:20]
B
My joke in my. In the MGDS is like, whenever I have MGD athletes do, you know, high, like, two, three, four minutes of step ups. I'm like, if you're a mountain tough athlete, you should be able to do step ups in your sleep. It doesn't even count as lower body. Step ups should just be like, like the thing. And then like, other things can be hard, like Bulgarians and lunges and things. But step ups, you should be able, especially body weight or light pack. Like, that should just be the standard of just. That's not even like, if you can get to the point where you're like, oh, we're just doing step ups. Like, that's like, step up to your
- [35:01]
A
cool down, step up to your rest.
- [35:03]
B
Your moving rest is your warm up. Yeah. And I think. But that's kind of like the ethos of it is like, you should be able to do this in your sleep. And then when something really hard comes about, you're mentally ready to take that on and familiar with that.
- [35:20]
C
You know, those are always the best testimonials we get from people. I mean, people that have done the programs, gone on a hunt. You know, write us back, send us an awesome picture with a big paragraph about what they did, and, you know, basically just say, like, there. There's no way they could have imagined doing this hunt without doing mountain tough. And I think that's just a testament to the programming and kind of what we've built with the community. But that's. It always makes it worth it hearing that stuff.
- [35:42]
B
I had a guy at Chief show this year. I had a couple guides come up to me and just. It was great. I mean, so cup filling to say. He goes, you've transformed my business. You know, we recommend mountain tough to everybody that, you know, purchases a hunt with us. And, you know, these same guys that would quit after two days are able to go and thus, you know, reap more success and things like that. But I had One guy come up and he's showing me all these pictures of, you know, his bucket list kill. And he's like, I was right here and he's like showing me this mountain. He's like, and your, your damn voice was in the back of my head screaming at me. I was like, so I'm. You're in your nightmares. And he's like, but it's so true. He's like, I didn't want to go like that last, whatever it is, but it's like, I've been here before, I've hit this wall before. Like, let's go. And that's where that mental, that mental gamesmanship with yourself happens of like risk, reward. And if the risk is less, the reward is higher, you know, and the, and that comes with physical preparation. You're going to be risking less ascending that mountain if you physically prepared.
- [36:53]
A
You know, I want one of the things that I wanted to ask you guys about because I always like to give our listeners, you know, like something they can take away and apply in their life. But as coaches, you know, I think one of the things you guys do really well is you're very motivating. Right. But like motivation looks so different all the time and in different kind of things. What are some of the things that you guys use or through training have used to help motivate the people that you're like, you know, you see, it's like, okay, give like make being that voice in the back of their head. What are some of the tricks that you guys use to motivate people? And then I think the follow up question to that would be what are some things that people can do to kind of motivate themselves or come out of this? So whether it's in the field or in the gym, you know, some of the ways and things that you, you guys do a really good job of it. I know, like Sarah, my wife on at the Tough Sheep, she was like, my legs were done. I was doing the wall sits and Sarah was just there in my ear and I'm like, I can't let her down. I'm not gonna break. You know, she's like, my legs are shaking.
- [37:57]
B
I can actually see her instead of talking to her.
- [37:59]
A
Yeah. So I, I do know, like, and even like for me, I like, I like, you know, the, the guided workouts and the MCDs, because it's like, yeah. Whether you're there in person or not, you know, the interaction with the people there and it's almost like there is that motivation. There's that, yeah, there's that, that voice in your head like, yeah, you can do it. But I also know sometimes it's like there's that, like, I don't know. Give me some of your guys's motivation tips because you guys both do a great job at motivating people. I, I think. And then some of the, some things that we could probably take in and be self motivators as well.
- [38:35]
B
Gotta want it, right?
- [38:35]
C
Yeah.
- [38:36]
B
We were joking the other day.
- [38:38]
C
Yeah, I mean, we've. There's a. There's a couple different things. We talked about this the other day, but I feel like for a lot of people, having some sort of goal always helps. Like, maybe it is a hunt. Maybe it's you want to run your first 5k. Maybe. Maybe you do have something on the list that. That always helps. It's not always necessary. I think having some kind of thing on the calendar that you're trying to prepare for that you know, you need to be consistent with. I always think that that helps with motivation. If you're just trying to create a new habit. I think rather than motivation, it might need to just be more consistency. Like, I see a lot of people even in the physical therapy world where they know they need to do these exercises, but they're like, I just can't get them done. So I think it's just finding a way that you can do that without any excuses, like limiting those barriers. Maybe that's like you get up first thing in the morning and you do it and just always make that part of your routine until that habit sticks. And then I think once people start to feel the physical changes, that reinforces the motivation too, because it's like, okay, now I'm feeling good. I don't want to disappoint the coaches. They know they're always going to be there, that next workout's going to be there. So I think developing that consistency is huge.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah. And for me, I was also talking with Randy about this the other day. I think people recognizing the distinction between motivation and discipline, because there are. You are not going to wake up motivated every day. Like, it's not going to happen. No matter whether you're the most athletic person on the planet, everything's going great. You're going to wake up some days not motivated. And it's the discipline that's going to be the difference. And also not putting your workout on a pedestal. If you don't have an hour and a half to work out, that doesn't mean you don't have 15 minutes to work out something is always going to be better than nothing. And then in those, what I always think about, and if, if there's MGDers out there listening to this, you've heard me say this before. When you get through, let's say, a five minute wall sit, and you're like, that was just absolutely miserable. I never want to do that again. That cracks the door. It cracks the door. And we know now, after all these Huberman podcasts and things like that, that doing something we truly, truly do not want to do is good for your brain. It's good for brain development. And there is something that it, that hits when you truly do something you hate and you just truly don't want to do. And when you crack that door, it doesn't swing wide open. But if you continue to just crack that door a little bit, like anything that's worth working towards, it doesn't happen in one swoop. It's not immediate gratification. But if you just keep cracking that door, it open, it continues to open that door to things that you may not have been able to accomplish. Right? So just like any workout program, just like any sort of progress in any direction, whether it's mental, emotional, whether you're going to therapy, whatever it is, it doesn't happen overnight. And so taking those baby steps and recognizing the gravity of those small things, those build over time, so don't underestimate the power of pushing through an extra minute or, or an extra five reps or, you know, instead of taking 12 breaths in between, like, just pick the weight back up and do it. And that opens the door just that little bit more to the next thing that's going to continue to open the door. And I think our culture, our society is so wrapped up in this, like, well, I'll just pay money or take a magic pill and it's gonna, and I'll be great versus staying consistent and doing like, essentially doing hard things every day. And then all of a sudden, those hard things are ten times harder than the hard things that you did a year ago. Yeah, right. Like, it's the same idea as, like, we did this challenge of like, we were gonna do 500 lunges every single day for 30 days. And people are like, what, you're psycho? I'm like, well, it's just body weight lunges. And yeah, I couldn't walk after the first three or four days, but by the end of the month, it was like zone two. We're just chatting it up, returning emails as you're lunging. Right. And so just that every day was open that door a little bit. I know it's kind of cheesy, but it's true. It's the people that don't. They wake up and they're like, nah, I'm not gonna do it. Cause I don't have an hour. I'm like, but you got 10 minutes. You know, so it's those little chip aways.
- [43:07]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. I. I think that like that. That motivation factor. Yeah, you gotta. You kind of. You're right. You don't always feel motivated. I mean, I don't always feel motivated. I know for sure. And it's like the thing when I'm like, ah. When someone's like one more pull up one way, you're like, oh God, another one of these. And I was like, I think of that thing that I'm like you said, Nick, that, that I'm striving for or you know, I always, I always. I try to think of big mule deer that's like, yeah, big meal deer, cool elk, sheep, whatever, you know, whatever. I got like something outside of what I'm doing, make it like bigger than myself in my current situation. I think like, oh yeah, this is for this or that or some goal, whatever it is. And then like you said too, Sarah, I really like that of it is one of those things. It's as much a muscle as a muscle. Right. The. You get used to something that sucked before and then you're like, yep, that's. That's now pretty easy. Okay, what's the. What's the next thing? And it could be whatever.
- [44:10]
B
And it's addicting. Yeah, it gets, it gets that way. And I think a lot of people, I mean given there has to be some intrinsic drive, you know, like you can't. The person that just is like, I don't care about doing hard things and I'm good. And, and unfortunately there's a lot of people in the world that are like that. But the ones that want more, that just lay awake at night and say, there's so many things I want to accomplish. I just don't know how I'm going to get there. That's why we're here, that's why you're out here. That's why people have podcasts and have professional service. There is a way. There's step 10, 11 and 12. And I think that's what mountain tough always previously provided. And we've worked really hard as a company and in our products to provide steps 1, 2, 3 and 4. Like I think that is maybe probably one of the most powerful changes we have made in the last three to five years of. Mountain tough's too hard. Like, it's. It's too intimidating. I can't do mountain tough. Well, we want. We don't want. That's not. That's not okay with us. We want to provide that pathway, the on ramp, the foundation. We want you to be able to get there because we know that that's going to open up so many opportunities in your life, not just to kill a huge mule deer, but to roll around with your kids at age 60 and to take your son hunting when he's 25 years old and you're 55 years old with a knee replacement. Like, those are things. Those are doors that are opening, too. And so, yeah, in the last three to five years, I'm like, we have to provide the step one and two, three and four for these, for our community. And we did before. We didn't really have to, you know,
- [46:04]
C
And I think a lot of that is. Is finding a way for people to get into the mountain tough fat. Because just this whole conversation gets me thinking that we. We typically use fitness as a. As a kind of way to create habit change because it's just an easy, measurable thing to do. Like, if you can do a hard workout and you can do it consistently, that carries over so much into the rest of life of like, oh, man, like, I didn't think I could get through that workout.
- [46:25]
A
I did it.
- [46:26]
C
Now you're like, you take that into a meeting. Like, oh, that was going to be a hard meeting. But I do hard things. Like, I can do this. I've done it before. And I think fitness is just an easy, easily tangible thing for us to do. Like, you can do it regularly. You can expose yourself to challenging things. And again, that just has so much carryover and everything else.
- [46:42]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. I. I wanted to mention too, I know that, you know, it's always good to have those goals, those. Those things off in the distance to. To strive for. And, and one of the. A couple of things that you guys have been doing over the last, I guess, couple years now is the, the tough sheep. Those, the events. You guys have been doing Tough Fest for a while, and then you also. There's a tough elk coming up in Missoula. I guess Tough Fest is first, right? That's in June. Is that like June 12th?
- [47:11]
C
June 13th. Yeah, first Saturday, this.
- [47:13]
A
Oh, awesome. So Tough Fest is in Bozeman. And then let's run through that just, I mean, it's such a cool event. I, you know, I've been fortunate to be able to go a couple different times and man, the community. Like there's people that I've met there that I'll see it, you know, some other thing or this thing. And it's like, man, just a. It builds a really cool community. It's. I think it's a really cool event. The people is probably one of the. My favorite parts about it. Like, there's just so many amazing people that show up and, you know, share in that. And it's just, it's a really cool experience. If you've never done it. I highly encourage it. It's a really cool weekend and it's in a cool place. A lot of people travel from so many different places and it's just cool to everybody meet and enjoy it. But run us through it real quick. Quick, because I think a lot of people would be pretty interested in it.
- [48:02]
C
Yeah. So, I mean, Tough House was the first, the first big event that kind of even branched off and created the idea for all the other events that we now do kind of on the road. But it's just a, a community event where you invite everybody, all mountain toughers, even people outside the community come to Boseman. It's basically a full day long where it starts off with the ruck up past the M. So people kind of get to experience, you know, what the mountain life is if they're not like, if they're not from here. And I'll create a little bit of bonding there. Then we come back to the gym and then basically the rest of the day consists of running everybody through a big team workout. So a mountain tough style workout where in years past we've had them randomly matched up so you might meet a couple people you've never met before. You get to do something hard together. And usually people come away with a pretty close relationship with those people. And it's a good chance for us to get to see the community, for people to meet us in person and just to get to share a day of challenging ourselves with within a workout.
- [48:53]
B
Yeah. And it's, I mean, I remember the very first Tough fest. I was like, this is the best thing ever, selfishly for coaches who we coach to a camera. Right. A lot. Like literally getting to meet our mountain toughers that are with us every day and hearing their stories and everything like that. Yeah. After the workout we get this year, it'll be peaks cooking. We'll do a big cookout there's a bouncy house for the kids. I'm working on getting a face painter for the kiddos. And usually there's some live music. I'm not sure if we're gonna do that this year, but we all just get to like, hang out and talk to each other from all over the country, all over the world. But most importantly, just sweat together and kind of get gritty. And it's so important for a company like ours that's remote. Right. We don't get to connect with our community members a lot other than just through support questions and things like that. So for us to have like that tangible like, like you're, you're in front of me. And we get to hear their stories. It's. It's really, really cool.
- [50:03]
C
And we have a lot of mountain toughers that will, that will plan their training around that event because they, they know to expect some really challenging workout. It changes a little bit every year. So we're kind of keep it, keep it a surprise until they, till they get here. We've had people ask us months in advance to try to give them little tips on like, what they could train for. So again, as far as goals go, having that tough fest on the map for a lot of people that know they're going to come here, they want to show off their training, show off their fitness, and that's a good chance to do it.
- [50:29]
B
And just to clarify, this year we're allowing people to pick their teams. If you want a team and then if you don't care, we'll assign you a team. But I think most people think like, I'm going to come there and I'm going to crush it and I'm going to win. We don't give any prizes for first, second, third. It's truly just about community. And so I think the people that show up that just want to like, destroy people, great. I love the competitiveness. Like, love you. We want you to just destroy the workout. But it's much more about the experience in meeting other mountain toughers and helping people through the workout. And, you know, everybody is at the end of the day, just super, like the cups are filled and you know, kids have a great time. We run a mountain. Tough kids work or mount or Tough fest, kids workout, which is pure chaos. It's great. It's just a fun day. It's just great.
- [51:22]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it's a great event. And is there like a limited number of signups or how do you guys, what's the way that people should go, we're not capping.
- [51:30]
C
I don't think we're capping it. But it's grown every year. I think we're expecting 200 plus people. We're already, like, well towards that number right now. So. Yeah. I mean, you know how crazy it was the years you were here, and it's going to be even more. So leave it up to us to organize those.
- [51:43]
A
Perfect. Well, I'm looking forward to it. And then another thing. Tough Fest, which is. Or Tough Elk. Sorry. That's going with the RMEF's outdoor days in Missoula this year. I'll be. I'll be pretty much doing a bunch of different events at. At Outdoor Days this year. They've got bow shooting. They've got some stuff at their headquarters there in Missoula, and then the opportunity to do a mountain tough workout and win a guided elk hunt.
- [52:12]
C
Yeah. So it's gonna be an awesome event. Anybody that's been at Tough Sheep or we did Tough Buck down at Western Hunt this year, so it's gonna be a similar workout. We're gonna run people through a pack workout. It's getting a challenging workout down there. Anybody familiar with the Missoula area? It's gonna be an awesome area down at Caris. Park there. So, like, right along the river so we get to be outside this time instead of inside of a building. And again, putting people through a challenging workout, kind of. We designed the workout to simulate a hunt. Kind of some of the movements. You'll be wearing a pack. You'll be hitting a lot of leg movements and doing some of the stuff that you might see out there in the field to kind of give people a little bit of an experience of what that would look like.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah, it's super cool. And I can personally vouch for the elk hunt because it's. It's my outfitting business that I actually sold it to my guy this year. So I'm actually. I'm no longer an outfitter, but the guys that have worked for me, it took it over this year, and I. So I know, like, I can personally vouch that it's incredible. It's an incredible hunting experience. So they'll give you guys a good hunt for that too.
- [53:08]
B
Yeah. It's kind of crazy how we came into running these huge events. Like, I mean, when. When tough. Our first Tough Sheep event came across the desk, I was like, what, like 500 people? I was like, we're gonna need. Like, we're a team of eight. Like, how are we gonna Pull this off. And then we just chipped away at it. And it was such an incredible success on year one. And it just opened up the floodgates. And it's crazy to think now we're running like two to three events of these or two to three events a year, like across the country. I mean, we're going to be working with Mountain Ops in June. It's just. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
- [53:53]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for jumping on with me. I know that this helps a lot of people and hopefully encourages people, like, if they, if they haven't checked it out, jump on, you know, jump into a program, get ready as the season starts to come up. Like, start, start now, start today. That's the one thing we always say is like, now is. Now's the day, right? If you're listening to this, you're like, ah, I didn't really have any plans to do anything. Get started. If you're already started, you're already in it. I mean, I hope this is a good opportunity to at least get to know you guys a little bit more. And some of the stuff that's coming out in the Mountain Tough app. As always, our listeners can use code livewild and you'll get an extra two free weeks. So if you're, if you want to check it out, you're like, I don't know, man. You're going to get six weeks to, to really dive in, and by the end of those six weeks, you're going to see the transformation. You're going to feel better about every, like, dive into the app. Don't just, don't just do, like, check out the nutrition information. Check out, you know, the mental toughness stuff. The daily, like there's spiritual mental toughness, all this stuff. Whole body, mind, everything you can, you can get yourself to a level where you're going to feel a lot better and a lot more prepared. So thank you guys so much for joining us. Thank you guys, you know, for everything you do in the app. And I will see you guys. You won't see me, but I'll see you tomorrow. So. Yeah. Thank you, guys.
- [55:16]
C
Thanks, Remy.
- [55:18]
B
Thanks, Remy. Appreciate you.
- [55:19]
A
All right. And I, Oh, I always like to do an awkward goodbye. So what's our. Anybody, anybody got, like, an awkward goodbye that we could utilize for this podcast?
- [55:29]
C
Like, just saying goodbye?
- [55:31]
A
Yeah, but, you know, like, it's always generally cheesy, like, you know, keep it tough or, you know, it's got to be like, you can't think about it. Just the first thing that comes to your mind. It can be weird, it can be whatever, but it just. Just go for it. Let's. What's our sign off today? Thinking too much? Just blurted out. That's what I did.
- [55:49]
C
Dangerous Mountain.
- [55:50]
A
There you go. Okay.
- [55:52]
C
Or you don't got to go home, but you can't stay here.
- [55:55]
B
There you go.
- [55:55]
A
I like that one. All right. Can't stay here, guys. Catch you later.
- [55:59]
B
All right. See you, Remy.