← Live Wild with Remi Warren
Live Wild with Remi Warren
Ep. 243 | Wildfires part 1 How wildfires effect elk and deer
00:57:08
In this episode, Remi explores the complex relationship between wildfires and wildlife, focusing on how elk and deer interact with fire-affected landscapes. He shares personal stories, scientific insights, and practical tips for hunters navigating fire-impacted areas.
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Foreign. I'm Remy Warren and I've lived my life in the wild as a professional guide and hunter. I've spent thousands of days perfecting my craft. I want to give that knowledge to you. In this podcast we relive some of my past adventures as I give you practical hunting tips to make you more successful. Whether you're just getting started or a lifelong hunter, this podcast will bring you along on the hunt and teach you how to Live Wild Podcast is brought to you by Mountain Tough and Yeti. If you really want to utilize a lot of this information from the podcast in the field, one of the best ways to do that is to be physically ready for the hunt. And that's really why I've partnered with Mountain Tough. So if you aren't familiar with it, Mountain Tough is an online training app designed for hunters with a ton of added benefit. In addition to the fitness programs built for that backcountry hunting, you also get access to nutrition and recovery guides for on and off the mountain mental toughness training and this really great in app community that connects you with other mountain toughers and coaches. This app is packed with value to help you stay ready and right now Mountain Tough is giving our LiveWild listeners a free six week trial when they sign up for the monthly plan using code livewild. To get started in the journey, go to mountaintough.com that's m t n t o u g h dot com when you're out there doing it the hard way, the right way, you need gear that shows up every time. That's why I trust Yeti. Whether it's keeping meat cold for the trip home or your coffee hot before daylight, Yeti just flat works, built tough, no shortcuts. Check out their full lineup@yeti.com and see why it's become a part of my system season after season. Welcome back to Live Wild Podcast everyone. Now this week we're going to start a three part deep dive into wildfires and the effect that they have on deer and elk and your hunting season. So what I want to do today to start it off is we're going to learn about how animals interact with fires in that burnt landscape landscape and what that looks like for hunting seasons and units. Then we're going to go and do kind of a deep dive into what elk and deer doing during that wildfire. While the fire is going on, what are they doing? And honestly, the answer might surprise you. Next week we're going to take it all a step further and we're going to look at the tactics and planning post fire and then just how to monitor wildfires before and during your season as well. And then in the final part of this series, we're going to wrap it up by looking at impacts of fire during your season. So you've got a unit, there's a fire going on, how to keep up with closures, how to make new plans and backup plans and then the best options for that tag that's near an area or in an area that's currently on fire. And how your hunt strategies can change when those hunt plans that you made months ago just go up in flames. But before we do that, I really want to share the story of a burnt out elk hunt and some bugles in the ash. So there's this elk hunt that I had planned and if you've ever hunted western big game elk especially, and if you've got an early elk season that starts in September or a particularly dry year or just any given year, honestly, it's hard to remember a year where there wasn't fires going on in some location or another. Some years, you know, you have fires from neighboring like problems from neighboring fires or areas. I remember a few years ago there's a big fire in Oregon and that blew smoke into the area that I was hunting. It was a long way, hundreds of miles away from where I was hunting. But yet my hunt was affected by this particular fire that was a long ways away. And then some years you might not have any fires or any particular problems in your area. And then other years you might have a unit that is currently on fire when you're planning to hunt. There's closures, there's all kinds of things that go on. You have to change your hunt plans. And this particular story that I'm talking about, the fire was actually in the unit that I was hunting. What had happened was there was a fire earlier in the year. It got, I'm going to put air quotes here, put out. So I was monitoring it and go, okay, it's all great. It's put out. There aren't any closures early in the season. I was planning on doing some earlier season hunting. And then that what happened was a big windstorm came and what was thought to be out reignited the fire and kind of burnt right through where I was planning on hunting or restarted the fire. So then during the season the closures were back up. The areas closed, you know, the first couple weeks of the season. And thankfully I, you know, I was just monitoring it from afar because I was like well, I've got other hunts and other things planned. I was planning on hunting this particular spot mid September. So I was just waiting for some weather realistically. And sure enough, weather came in. I can't remember if it dumped snow, rain, whatever fire gets put out, closures open to back up. All good. Now, I knew the fire, you know, originally the fire was kind of like close to where I wanted to be, wasn't right where I wanted to be. And then, you know, looking at the map, I'm like, well, where I was planning on hunting there, it looks like the fire was in and around there. So this is now a couple weeks after that, a week, probably a week after that storm. So I've been out long enough now, kind of toward the end of September at this point, and I. Or I guess like mid, middle to end of September. So I just was like, well, I'm going to go with the plan because the year prior I'd hunted this area and was getting into some good bulls is one of the spots of a multiple places that I was hunting. But I kind of want to start my hunt there because I kind of ended it, I guess, the year prior in that area and got on some good bulls. So. So I go. I go there to start it out and do the same hike that I did the year prior. And where I parked, it was like, no fire, trees, everything. Like, the fire line was in and around that area. But it's dark, it's blackout. I leave the truck in the dark. I'm hiking, and I get to where I'd actually called in a bull the year prior. And between where I started hiking and where I was calling into, it started to change. I could start to see evidence of this area now having been burned. And honestly, the walking was a little easier. There's quite a bit of deadfall getting in there. It was like an area that it was on the edge of a burn, and then the old burn reburned, and then there was. And then that also took. What was not burned in the burn was now burned. So there was like, it had burned a while ago. There's now a bunch of deadfall in it, and there were some live trees mixed into that. And then it kind of like the section all burned again. And. And the dead stuff burned. And a lot of the standing stuff, that was where I was targeting elk prior had also burned. But I didn't know that at this point. So I went to my spot where I was going to call from, and I'm like, crap, this is. This is Just like the scape of the moon here, you know. It was not what I was expecting. I was walking through trees. I knew there was going to be a burn somewhere. I didn't know exactly where. You know, I was looking at the fire map and other things, but I pop out and I'm like, dang it, this is. This is where I wanted to be. And it's toasty. So the sun's. Now the sun's starting to come up, and I'm gonna get a good view of it for the first time. Of where, you know, what it looks like and where it burned. And so I'm sitting there and it's getting that, like, hazy light. I can't really see. So I lit out a couple bugles, and I don't hear anything. It's, like, still pretty dark, so I don't really hear anything there. And I decided I'm like, well, I'm here, you know, I might as well glass and see. And there is some live stuff across the way and some other stuff. I'm just thinking, man, you know, it's still. I'm not, like, put off by this at all. But it is a little weird to be in a zone that was just thick timber and all this growth and everything last year. And now it looks like you're walking in chalk. You know, it's like just. It had been fried. So I let out a bugle just to see what happened and didn't get anything. And there's like, another little ridge. So I walk over the other little ridge. By this point, it's starting to get a little more light. I rip a bugle, another bugle. And I'm kind of thinking, like, okay, I'm bugling into this timber across the way. Maybe I'll hear something faint. And sure enough, I get a bugle ripping across the canyon. And it's in the middle of toasty country. Like, this is pretty fresh burned. And I had some wallows and water holes marked in there from the year prior that I found. And it was like the topography was such that I couldn't see in there. So the only way to get in there was to, like, actually get in there because I had to go up over this hill. And so I get on that ridge and I'm moving down the ridge and. And I, like, keep bugling and calling. And the bull is, like, responding back. And it seems, you know, it's one. It's burnt where the tree. There's a lot of, like, some of it's really burnt, some of it's burnt where the trees are still just brown and have their foliage and whatever. Most of the greens burnt. The. The stuff right around the water holes was actually, like, still very green in a couple of the places, Like a couple little seeps and stuff like that. And then the majority of it was just shock. And so I. I'm going. I'm trying to go pretty quick before it gets too light. And I don't know what these. These elk are going to do. And so I get down to, like, I'm on this spine moving, and it's real steep country. I can't really see really far, But I can tell that the elk is below me somewhere. And so I start to pop over, going fairly quick, and, like, out in the wide open, here's a cow. Not really where I was expecting it. And so I get down, I back up, I throw out some cow calls, and it holds the herd and the bulls down below me. And I'm just ripping bugles. He's ripping bugles. He's got all these cows. And now he's just, like, pushing the cows and working his thing. And he starts to push the cows off. They didn't really see. It wasn't like I popped over and got busted. It's just that that bull was active and moving cows. And so what I ended. What ended up happening is that bull started pushed cows down, and they ended up moving pretty quick away. It was open enough where I didn't want to just pop over because there was still, like, the bull pushed. Seemed like half the cows. And then there's still some cows there. So I keep following him in the timber. There's enough cover where I can kind of keep shadowing these elk. And so those elk kind of push out through the timber. And I just keep holding back because I don't want to bump these cows in the back. Like, if it was more covered, maybe I would have got more aggressive and took her out around or whatever. But there was just enough where I could stay back. And I'm probably, like, at some points, I was 70 yards from the cows, maybe 120 from the bigger group. And then probably three or 400 from where that bull was bugling. Like, he was definitely leading a charger. Maybe he had a hot cow. It was hard to tell. And so they end up pushing off, going up the mountain and then going quiet. I get in on those. I kind of sat on some of the cows bedded. And so I kind of sat there not knowing if there was another bull or what, and ended up The. The bull was quiet, and so I ended up backing out and glassing in there because I wanted to see where the bull was at. And I started from when I got back across the canyon. I continued built here the bull bugle. So he's clearly, like, bedded with the cows somewhere there. But the topography didn't allow me to see him. So I just waited on him and actually just gave him till that evening because I thought, I kind of really want to see, figure out what these. These elk are doing. And Washington, the bull got up and. And he was a good, great bull and started pushing the cows. And really he just hung out in that burn for the most part all day. There was a couple little patches in there that must have been cover that he pushed some elk to. And after some more investigation, what I found out was like, I think that bull was still utilizing that same wallow in water, and same kind of like they were doing the same exact thing that they'd done the year before in the timber. Now it was just burned. So utilized that tactic and ended up hunting with a buddy in there, I guess, like day or two later. And I was like, I'm going to call you. You shoot. And my buddy ended up shooting a bull in there, but just like the next draw drainage over. And it was one of these things where you would have thought, you know, I mean. I mean, a lot of people would have thought that, okay, this area just burned weeks ago. The elk are definitely not going to be in here. They're going to be displaced and moved all over. And yet the elk were doing the exact same patterns and routes that they were doing the year prior. I mean, that bull, like, pushed the cow. What I noticed that evening is that bull pushed the cow right to where I started my morning calling that morning. And it was the same place that I called in a bull the year prior. And it was just like they were doing the same thing. They barely changed what they were doing, even though this area had just burned. And it was really cool to see in action because, you know, I've seen it before, and I've generally, like, when there's fires or whatever, I don't really change my tactics very much because I've noticed over the years that the elk and deer are still doing elk and deer things. It's just that the landscape's changed a little bit. So what we're going to do today is we're going to dive into what the elk deer actually do. And a lot of this is based off of collared data and Studies and then also just my own personal observations from a ton of days in the field guiding and seeing some kind of fire activity nearly every year for the last, I don't know, 30 years, it seems like. So we're going to dive into that. And the reason that I really wanted to talk about fires and the impact of fires is because I think that there's a lot of misconception about what happens for elk and deer when there's a fire. There's a lot of plans, planning changes that take place based on bad information that people are given. There's a lot of, I think like really bad or poor decision making based off of a lot of fallacy of what happens. And if you know my, my hunt style and the way that I like to teach about hunting is you first have to understand the animal. And when you really understand the animal that you're hunting, like you can be hunting elk, deer, whatever, when you really understand that animal, then you can utilize that tactic anywhere you go. So the first thing is like, understand the enamel, really know the species that you're hunting and what they're doing, and then really learn the area and the combination of those two things. That's where a lot of success comes from. And so when you throw fires into the mix, that's something that might not happen every year, or you might be coming in from an elk for an elk hunt from this place or that place, and unfamiliar with how animals interact with fire, how the fire changes the landscape, how the animals utilize the landscape, what they do during that fire. Because some fires happen right now earlier in the summer, some happen in September during your elk season. Depending on where you're at in the country, like southern states, some. Some places actually have later fire season, so it might be in your October, November timeframe. Fires are a part of it. Fires affect the landscape, fires do affect the animals. But we need to understand how. What are the animals doing during the fire, what are they doing after the fire, how do they use the land and the range that they're at, and how does change from place to place? When we fully understand that, then when there's a fire, we can make proper decisions based on where we're going to hunt, how we're going to hunt it, the things that we're going to look for. And then we'll get into animals more often and find that success that we're looking for. So fires aren't always a bad thing, they are a thing. And we need to understand what the animals do first before we can really plan out and formulate our strategy. So that's what we're going to do today. We're going to say like, here's a fire. What are the animals doing throughout the stages of this fire? Then we'll also look at some of the benefits, some of the impacts, and just really understand wildfire, the landscape and the animals that utilize that land. So before we go into how animals utilize the landscape during fires or post fires, I wanted to talk about an incredible support of this podcast, Vortex Optics. You know, when I think about going out hunting, honestly, optics is one of the top pieces of gear when it comes to success and the everyday rig. The most important optic in my arsenal, I would say, is my binoculars. If you're looking at binoculars, there's a variety of ranges and just different things to know about binoculars and optics. So the way optics work is there's varying price tiers and what you get is kind of like what you pay for is what you get when it comes to optics. Now, when I was growing up, the quality of optics at certain price points is like, I would say the lower price point now is probably some of the top tier stuff. When I was growing up, we are in the age of like good optics and value for your money. But when it comes to optics, there's varying price levels. And generally where you get that benefit is in those early morning and late evening timeframes. Those like edges of darkness, however, those are really kind of the, the time when a lot of animal species and depending on the season are moving. So if you're in a hunt that's really glass of intensive, like put money into your optics if you can, like I always say, get the best that you can afford because it is such an integral part of the hunt. Now there's different varying magnifications I like. If you're in more open country, 12 by 50s seem like a pretty good, pretty good range. But I would say the workhorse of binoculars is going to be your 10 power binoculars. You can use them. If you're a guy that's like, hey, I don't go out west that often. I'm in more tighter country. Tens are still great. I never really go down to the eights. I'm just more of like tens are perfect for everything. And I utilize 12s a lot. So I'd say like 10 power binoculars. You can, you know, depending on whatever you can get 10x42s, 10x50s, that's just like your field, like your, the objective lens at the end. So the larger the objective lens the more light gathering you can get. So a little heavier optic, a little more light gathering with the 50s. But really your, the, the binos that are on your chest are going to be your most used bino. And that's like, if you're depending on where to put any kind of budget, spotting this or that, I think that's one of the pieces of gear that I put, put more money in. I would, I would sacrifice it in other areas to put money into my optics. So that's something to think about as we go into the season. If you're looking for a new pair of binoculars, you can check it out. We've got them. I've got them on my website, Remy Warren.com you can find them at whatever retailers. I mean they're, they're, they're pretty much everywhere. Or check out some of the offerings on their website, Vortex Optics website. But you can check that out. I encourage you now, like now's a good time before you get into the season when you can scout if you're thinking of upgrading it. Now's a great time. Especially during the summertime. You can utilize it during the scouting season. It is my, in many ways, like my most used piece of gear. Like I'm looking through those things nearly constantly in the field and most hunts for me start finding something through my, my binos. Like a lot of success for me is attributed to glassing, to looking through my binos in near and far country. I've talked about it a lot. Yeah. If you guys are interested, check them out at my website, Remy Warren.com so I think one of the first parts or things that we need to look at when it comes to elk and deer and how they use the landscape is identify their home range. So what that might be is whether it's a migratory herd or a resident herd, it doesn't really matter. All these animals have what we're going to consider a home range that's used for. Let's just a certain period of time. So maybe it's a transitionary herd where it's like they migrate in the summer, but their home range during the summer is this particular summer range. Okay. And then outside of that migration path, they're gonna take this migration path and then they're gonna go into a winter range. Whether it's that or. And then that winter range becomes like this home range. So the home range of these animals is gonna be that area that they utilize. Now elk often, maybe because they're larger, because of the way that they move, they have a Larger home range than say mule deer might have. Mule deer might have a lot tighter home range. Maybe within, even seasonally might move a lot less. Whereas within a day, elk might go here, there, you know, make these like circuits. Some areas that I've hunted, it's like it's almost clockwork where the elk move. It's like a three day circuit, four day circuit. You can kind of start to figure out where these herds go and what they do. Now it might be multiple days. So they're utilizing more country within that home range, but they definitely have the area that they live. And those areas that they live have what they need. It's food, water and cover. It's habitat. It's everything that these animals need. Now one of the things that happens during fires is if a fire sweeps through these animals home range, what does it look like? What are their habits? How do things differ on this home range? To really understand how does fire affect these animals? And once we understand how fire affects deer and elk, then we can make those proper adjustments based off of our hunt strategies. Now I grew up guiding and hunting in an area that had like what we consider a mega fire. I feel like when I was growing up, big fires were kind of a rare occurrence. Like they happened, but it wasn't as often as they happen now. Now multiple states, multiple places have these mega fires. You can point to a lot at like, I'm not going to get into the weeds of why we have mega fires. You know, some people are like, okay, it's climate change and things drying out, more drought. Some people go, well, it's less, you know, years of unmanaged forests. Other people go, well, it's just more human interaction and probability of, you know, people accidentally starting fires. It's like people saying there's, there's more fuels and other things. It's a combination of all of it really. I mean, if you really look at it like the places that I've seen, you see like there is fewer logging and maintenance over, like over a long period of time where we've definitely been increasing it. And in some areas you can see that fires are getting put out sooner also. Maybe even just like fire suppression itself could be a cause of some of this. We used to let a lot of stuff burn, but now I feel like the forests were managed a lot better where it would burn, but it wouldn't just create these mega fires. Now a combination of factors, of environmental factors, you've got land management factors, you've got human use factors, you've also got the prevalence, even more prevalence of invasive plant species and even invasive animals that, you know, might kind of change the habitat. And how much soil do. I could go down a rabbit trail if you wanted me to. About like feral wild horses and how that affects the landscape pre and post fire. You know, the, the invasive cheatgrass and how cheatgrass out competes other plants that grow and maintain moisture in the soil. So there's just so many factors, and they're all, they're all relevant factors. But what that amounts to is we actually do have more big fires. Fires that burn for longer, burn more landscape are put out, like either need to be put out by, you know, human intervention or like, last longer because natural seasonal things that would put out fire, like colder weather and, you know, potentially like moisture, rain, all that kind of stuff isn't happening as often. So there's a lot of, a lot of reasons why we have these more mega fires. And that does change things more than like a simple kind of patchy mosaic burn. What that means is it's a burn where it burns in kind of fingers and spreads out. It burns some and leaves a lot. And sometimes even what it burns doesn't get hot enough to scorch through the ground and destroy everything. It leaves some stuff behind. But even these mega fires, what you're going to find is it there will be big swaths of places that might get what seems to be completely burnt out, but then it also misses and leaves places. So understanding how fires burn makes a big difference as well, especially when we talk about, like, the effects later on down the road. I've hunted areas that have had all kinds of wildfires, from big mega fires to, you know, seasonal little fires here, there, and even burns on burns on burns, right? An area burned and then another part of that area burns and then it grows back and then that dead fall stuff burns. You know, I've seen it all and I think that understanding how elk and deer utilize that we got to understand, okay, how do fires burn? What happens in there and what happens during the fire might actually surprise you. One of the things that you're going to hear, and I've heard it time and time again, it's like, there will be a fire over in XYZ area. And everyone's like, oh, man, that area is going to suck. That area is gone. That area is, you know, the hunting is going to suck in there. This fire sucks. Which fire, it can and does suck in a lot of ways. Like, it does destroy some really good habitats and other things. It also can Open up really good habitats down the road, especially species dependent. You can burn some of the understory, you can get light in there, you can get new growth. New growth has the most nutrients so you're going to get better forage, better forbs, better grasses for elk, opening it up for grazing animals like elk. Elk do flourish in fires and mule deer can too. Especially as that new browse starts to come up. It provides really good ground cover, provides you know, place like more food and ability to did for more just like to distribute. Especially if it's like timbered country. Now if it's like sage country or other country, it just depends. So we're looking at the habitat types, looking at how fires burn and we're also looking at that home range. Now the home range for deer and elk, like elk is generally like more like a larger home range and mule deer have a smaller home range. So that's in important when a fire comes through because it depends on what percentage of that utilized area gets burned and how it gets burned. Another thing we can look at when talking about home range is the size of that home range really depends on the habitat type and the conditions. So you can, you can look at different areas, completely different. Remember we're talking about habitat which has everything an animal needs to survive that food, water, cover. Well in areas where maybe cover is a lot further than water or food is a lot for like there's some kind of scarcity of resource, that home range starts to expand and then maybe it's like, okay, maybe it's a high population and a more scarce resource. Like it's a big, big herd of elk that kind of move through here and this area happens to be more arid. And then it's like the water's down in the valleys and the, and the timbers up on the mountain. Well those elk are going to travel a lot further to get water and then go back and bed in that shade and whatever, get in that cover and then maybe that feed is like on those south facing slopes which is on a certain part of the mountain. So they've got to move around more. But in areas where everything like all that habitat's a lot closer, then the home range of those animals is a lot closer. So understanding like the area that you're hunting and the type of habitat that it is is going to determine the size of that home range. Now that's going to be important when you're looking at fire data and fire because we're going to learn here in a minute what animals do during A fire. I've heard it so many times. I think I got off on a little bunny trail, but I've heard it so many times where people go like, oh, the fire's here and it's going to push the elk out of that area. And there's going to be no elk in that area, but it's going to push it into the neighboring unit and that neighboring unit's going to be really good or, you know, oh, the places that I used to hunt are getting burned and there's going to be no more elk or deer in there. Well, let's look at what the data suggests of what actually happens during a fire. And I think that the image people have in their heads of wildfire and animals is like the fire starts and the animals are tongues out, running away, getting as far away from this thing is humanly possible. And that's actually not the case. I've witnessed it myself. The GPS collary data suggests it as well. The animals are there in these areas, are going to try to preserve themselves. They're going to get away from the fire. Every once in a while, animals do get caught in the fire. I've found a few animals that have burned. It's pretty rare. Like, I don't. You don't find it as much. It depends on how it happens. That's often when like two fires converge or there's like crazy winds or really crazy country. But for the most part, animals, elk and deer at least, will be in their areas. They'll be in their zones. A fire is coming through, the fire is burning, and they kind of just do what they're doing until the fire moves them out, and then they move out to somewhere that they probably is also part of that home range. And then as that starts to burn, they loop back around and go into this area. Like, they don't expand where they go very much. A lot less than people would think. Like, their, their area is expanded, but most of the time they're just kind of moving around the fire. I think it's like videos and imagery of like, what actually happens during a fire. You could probably just find. Find somebody that is a wildland firefighter and they'll tell you it's not like runaway stat. Now, sometimes it is like a blaze in a canyon, wind blowing it. Like, yeah, it can be really bad. People can lose their lives, animals can lose their lives. Habitat can get burned up in, in an instant. But the majority of fires when they're burning, like, animals can naturally move around it. And I've Even I've literally seen animals, like, walking through, smoking freshly burned stuff. It's like, the fire's over here. It's burning here. Well, it already burnt. This. They kind of just loop back around, go back into there, do their thing, hit that same spring that the water, just like the fire just burnt two days ago, yesterday, whatever. So what you're going to see is the animal behavior during a fire isn't really displacing them as much as you would expect or as much as you might hypothesize. A lot of people think, like, oh, they're running for the hills. They're getting the hell out of there. That's not the case. They actually move around more because they're kind of dodging the fire. But the area that they're moving around in is kind of that similar home range. It only expands by a fraction of what you would like think it's just they stay in that home range and then they work around the fire. Many of these animals, most fires don't actually burn their entire home range, like 100%, let's say it's like some of these fires will burn 70, 80, even up to 90%. But there is small portions within that range that they currently use that are unburned, and that unburned portion of becomes still habitat. And they still utilize the country within that burned area because there still is some forms of COVID there's new growths of food, and then there's also, you know, potentially water and other things that they need. So as long as they still have those aspects of what they need, they still continue to utilize that home range. Now, there could be the instance where 100% of where they live got burned. Every single inch of it. In which case, yeah, they will move, but they will just kind of move to the near fringes. They aren't, like, doing a mass migration miles and miles away. Now, it can depend right on the habitat type. Like, if it's not great habitat and they already have a really large home range. Like, I've seen this happen in more prairie country with elk. Big, big prairie fire, white, not a lot of COVID and a lot of large elk herds that utilize the landscape. Big fire kind of wipes everything out. That big herd just moves to where there's no fire, so it pushes it into another area. However, those same elk utilize, like, a lot more land than animals that might be living in one, like, back country canyon in Idaho, Montana, Colorado, where it's like they've got everything in that. That little zone. So those Prairie elk are already moving more. Their home range is actually naturally bigger and therefore more of them are moving and dispersing further from that fire. But it's still within that home range that they're utilizing. So understanding that is really important because it lets you have the structure of what are these animals doing and how are they getting away from this fire and what does that fire mean for later on? The animals that utilize the fire, post fire are the animals that are utilizing that landscape pre fire. Not a lot's changing. And that I think surprises a lot of people when you realize that there's. I've fielded calls over the years many times like, hey, my area's on fire. Like the doom and gloom aspect. And I always kind of like flip on the other side. Like I, we've taken a lot of elk sitting in like late season, sitting in areas that burned that year. We, we've seen mule deer, you know, feeding on greenup from this fire that just happened. And the stuff that starts to regrow after some of these initial rains and regrowth, some areas get torched. Like I've hunted an area that didn't regrow for over a decade. Like the, everything was so damaged. Like forest service even comes in and tries to plant stuff and the planting and reseeding doesn't take. And now, you know, 20, 30 years later, whatever, 25 years later, it's like blown up and everything's growing and whatever. And it's actually to the point now where it's choked out a lot of good habitat. There's this sweet spot. But for most fires, like the benefit of a fire can last about 15 years for elk and deer. Because what that fire does do is it opens up. Let's just talk about like forested fires, like timber fires. In timber fires, it really opens up the landscape, cleans out the trees that block the sun and then the forage and the feed that elk and deer utilize is all that low growing stuff, Low growing browse. And the new growth is the stuff that's the most nutritious. So after a fire, what happens is animals get displaced within their home range. And what will happen is like, okay, there are fewer resources now. So at first things are going to start to concentrate on, okay, how's, what's that habitat look like? And they're going to get displaced and moved into smaller pockets within that particular range. But then they're going to, they're going to, as things start to grow back, they're going to start to spread out and fan out. What does happen Shortly after fire is you actually don't see that many. Well, I mean, according to a lot of studies, there's not as much mortality from the fire that you might think like, oh, burnt through and killed everything. Now the animals are pretty good at surviving and moving and getting out and going back in and what have you. Where you do see a lot of mortality is post fire and it actually like predation increases after a fire because maybe the animals are more concentrated on fewer resources. So you know, concentrates like, makes them easier to find and kill. Also like hunter success can be even a lot higher during post fire because the animals that used to have more cover are still utilizing that range where they're actually now easier to find. In areas that are really rooted, like hunter success actually spikes post fire because people that are just driving the roads and whatever, the elk don't, elk and deer don't have as many places to get away and they're in places that they think they're hidden and actually aren't. So in those areas, you know, in some ways like the population fire can be more detrimental based off of the, the like management practices taken after the fire. Like if you don't close roads down and you allow the same kind of road access and the, like the people that maybe just kind of drive around and hope to get lucky can actually see a little further. It benefits them tremendous, like, tremendously. So you often see like populations get targeted by predators and then even like hunters can find more success post hunt. So wildlife managers do a lot like know this and do a lot of things to try to, to balance that. So they might say like, okay, we're closing this road and this road for habitat improvement. It's walking only. You maybe used to be able to drive it. But right now while it's regrowing, it's just going to be like walking only during the hunting season. Or they'll limit the number of tags there or the offer like, hey, it's post fire. You can turn your tag back and get your points back in. In many cases you go, okay, what would be the benefit here? Well, post fire you're, you're going to get those animals that survived. You're going to have, you know, probably more, more visibility and potentially more success. Now a guy that's like forward thinking can go, okay, it just burned. Yeah, there's animals in there. They are computing, competing for fewer resources which might, you know, increase my chances of finding them. This, that and the other thing. But if I have the opportunity and like, yeah, I could draw this next year again, I could draw it two years down the row, three years down the row. I might lean toward personally being like, okay, this area just burned. I know it's a good area. There's going to be some down the road benefits from this burn. And I would really like to capitalize on the animals that get that, that boost in benefit. The animals that are going to get that new growth and the increase in population post fire that four to five to six to seven years down the road, or even three, four years down the road, or even a year down the road, depending on what you're hunting in the previous winter or the following winter and summer and weather and all that kind of stuff. So there is some benefit to being like, yeah, I'm just going to postpone. And they do offer that a lot of times, like, hey, areas on fire, it burned. If you want to turn your tag back in, great, because they're trying to actually potentially limit the harvest in that year, in that season. Because we know that there's going to be increased predation and increased probably hunter success because of the ease of finding the animals compared to seasons before. Now every area is different and the type of terrain and other stuff is going to make a big difference on that as well. But we do see fire benefits as well. So like post fire and even immediately after the fire, you can see some. Some benefits as far as like what the deer and elk are doing. I think one of the things to think about no. Is just how they're utilizing that home range and landscape post fire. So there's a lot of big fires going on right now. And what you're going to see is the animals within those fires are still going to be there. Some will perish from the fire itself, which is a given. Some will perish based off of limited resources, potentially on how it burned and how much of those animals home range burned. And then some will just kind of adjust and it won't be much of an impact. And then some will perish based on increased or efficiency of predator predation. So you're going to find that probably mule deer are more affected by the fire than elk. Elk because they have a larger home range. So when something gets burned, they have more places that they're familiar with and utilize within that area that burned mule deer is smaller home range. So maybe more directly affected by the fire, especially if a large portion of that home range got burned. But they're going to utilize that landscape. They're going to expand a little bit, but very similarly to how they used it pre fire. And that is really good to understand and know because it tells you what the animals are doing, where they might be. And you can take then that information and overlay it onto where the fire is. Maybe animals that you already know, places that are already you know within your, your wheelhouse of knowledge. Now you could say it's an area I've never been and it burns and you go well then should I avoid the burned areas? I don't necessarily think so. I think that knowing that animals still continue to utilize that landscape, just maybe expand it a little bit more or move around more during the fire, but then kind of go back to their natural habits and habitat post fire really lets you key in on where those animals are going to be and the fact that it doesn't displace them as much as you might think. Now, now we're also going to look at down the track, let's say a fire burnt. And there is some stuff that suggests a big difference between how animals utilize like burning summer and winter range. But one of the things that we're going to think about is okay now how's this fire, let's say the fires right now it's like July, June, July timeframe. By the time the season rolls around, a lot of those animals like in that September, October timeframe are going to be utilizing that landscape in very similar ways. One thing that we, they, they are still going to need and the thing that might be in lease supply might be that food and cover. So and sometimes it burns, that burn still provides an adequate amount of COVID but it might not provide food. That's going to depend on the regrowth and, and the weather between now and then. What you will find is like on the fringes of these areas where you're going to want to look for that like patchy mosaic area. Even massive fires have fringes. It doesn't burn every bit of everything. There is patches in places that doesn't burn. So the edges of the burn, the fringes of the burn or habitat islands within the burn. One of my favorite things to focus on is those habitat islands within a burn where it's like it got this canyon, that canyon, but not that middle canyon. Well that middle canyon is now a feeder canyon. It provides cover, it probably provides water and there might be something about it that's just wetter and it's reason that you burn. Maybe just the winds don't blow that way, whatever it is. And now that this burn becomes the salad bar, it becomes the most nutrient dense Regrowth. Now, there are areas that, like, you know how hot you sometimes you just have to get into an area to find out. But places that burn on the fringes of live habitat often starts to re. Like life kind of continues out from things that were not previously burned. So wherever you find these islands of life and habitat, that's where it kind of starts to spawn out. Everything else, everything starts to regrow from that because there's living roots and other things that start to sprout up from various trees. There's. There's different parts of that that maybe it was wetter, it wasn't burned as much. So you start to see the regrowth on these edges. And those places become magnets for elk and deer, especially the ones that it's already within their home range and their habitat. Now they're. They're. They're focused and concentrate on these. And then that salad bar starts come out. Those nutrients start to come back, and they start to really start to utilize the benefits as we start moving down the road. So then the fire actually becomes an attractant. It becomes a food plot of sorts. Sometimes they're massive food plots, sometimes they're small food plots, but it becomes a really great food plot, especially for elk. Initially, I would say that elk. And this is. I'm not backing this up with any science, but I think it's like, backed up with kind of common logic. Elk benefit from fires probably more immediately than mule deer do. Because one thing about elk is like, they. Yeah, they need cover. I've seen elk just bed out in the open, though. Like, it just depends on their. They are like a prairie animal for all intents and purposes. They definitely do bed out in the open. But they also utilize. They need grass. They're grazers. And the grass is the first thing that kind of comes comes back. It opens up a lot of potentially like grass and grazing area after a burn. And elk flourish after that. I've seen it in, like, where. I like northern Nevada, where fires happen a lot. And a lot of that sage, and a lot of the sage, like buck brush, bitter brush, forage and hide and feed for mule deer, like mule deer or browsers. They need that, that woody browse. They need that, like that older growth plant. They will eat the Forbes and they will like, sometimes like the new growth of that stuff, but it takes a lot longer. Whereas elk can immediately get those benefits from. From these fires. And you, you see it in places, landscapes where they've burned a lot and the elk population is just skyrocketing. And Mueller populations are plummeting. And that's one of the things, like as somebody that's really passionate about mule deer and elk, you see like, okay, in this area there's a benefit from the fire. These other, this other species might be hurting for a lot longer after post fire, but elk definitely for sure benefit from this, this new growth. And the mule deer do too. So it just might take them a little bit longer and the population might lag a little bit after these big fires, depending on how it burned, where it burned, habitat type. But one of the things we're going to start to see is now we're getting nutrients, we're getting better feed. And these, these burns become magnets for elk and deer. You're going to see better antler growth, you're going to see population increases, you're going to see a lot of these, these benefits kind of down the track. Some of them you're going to start to notice like you have the added benefit of hunting primarily after because of added visibility. Animals don't necessarily know they're, they're not hidden. They're utilizing some of the similar and same home range. Yet it provides a hunter with more access to visibility, concentrated or isolated resources, limiting the number of places that they could potentially be and in that case can benefit hunter's success. And then you have the added benefits later on of the population boost from the fire salad bar. You have those islands of habitat and those fringe habitat that kind of feed into that burn. And then as that burn starts to develop and grow, animals start to disperse back into places that were maybe unsuitable habitat within that home range. They now become prime habitat. And then they start to disperse more shortly after the fire. So two, three, four, up to seven years later, and then you're going to reap the benefits of that kind of population growth and other things until everything starts to get choked out again. And which is about 15 years after, after a fire. So as we look at wildfire on the landscape, understanding that animals aren't like fleeing and running and completely displaced, they're mostly staying within those kind of home ranges. Now it also does say, well, what kind of fire was in your area? Is it this mega fire where large swaths are burned and there's a lot less patchy mosaic habitat? Well, that's going to displace things more than a potential fire. That's, you know, this canyon. That canyon spreads out like a octopus or a spider with fingers in different directions or one primary direction. But understanding that animals don't necessarily Just up and get out. They still utilize that area. Like if, if animals are. The other thing you gotta think about too is like sometimes portions of winter range burn. The elk that are, you know, elk and deer that are traveling miles and miles and miles to get to this winter range didn't know that it burned. Starting their journey, they didn't have all the fancy apps that we have. So they're gonna show up and they're gonna be like, ah, crap. Okay, well this burn, maybe there's going to be some new growth and they're really attracted to that new burn. Maybe it's not. They're going to utilize like other areas within that habitat to kind of find and seek refuge in and find that winter range. But the thing that I think is the takeaway here is the fact that animals don't necessarily change their habits as much as you might think. Fires are a natural part of the landscape. They've been dealing with them for, since they've been around. And so for an animal to freak out and like what everyone, I feel like a lot of people think this, like they freak out, they leave the country, they're sprinting a million miles away to get away from the fire, just like in a massive panic. When you watch animals around a fire, it's like, yeah, they're just kind of doing their thing. They're going about their day until the fire becomes like a now and present danger and then they move and then they go about and do their thing until it's a now in present danger and then they move. And then as the fire moves by, they move by and they just kind of coexist. And so you got to get out of your head that it's like a fire happens and everything's demolished, damaged and gone. The animals are all cooked, they're all out of there. In some areas, yes, there will be loss, but in other areas the loss is not going to be. Or loss and displacement is not going to be as much as a lot of people assume or think. And so understanding that about fires is important. And then what we need to look at as well is just how, like, where are the fires, how are they happening? What are the steps that we can utilize as hunters to aid in the hunt, to plan the hunt, to, to go about the hunt. And then there's going to be, you know, fires now are one, one thing fires during your season or another. Those are probably the more impactful fires because what you're going to encounter during that is closures of the unit, closures of portions of the unit, you're going to have increased human activity, which is definitely going to move animals around more. So you do notice during the fire, they move around more. Well, whether that's because of the fire or the fact that there's choppers on top, helicopters, you know, in every canyon, planes buzzing by, dropping stuff, fire crews plowing, bulldozing roads, people ripping chainsaws and doing all this stuff, you know, whether that moves the animals more or just the actual fire itself, it's hard to. Hard to say. I think a lot of the activity and movement from us fighting the fire displaces the animals probably more than the actual fire itself. But you are gonna. You are gonna see that animals will maintain that range. And what we're gonna look at coming up in these subsequent episodes is how do we identify. How do you even keep track of fires in your area or outside of your area? What are ways that we plan around the fires? How do we build this hunt strategy now that we understand what the animals are actually doing? How do we strategize around that? And then how do we. And then kind of going that next step is, what happens if there's a fire in my area during the season? What are some steps that I can take? How can I stay informed? How do I know when. Whether it's safe or not? How do we stay out of people's way? Like, last thing you want to do is be hunting and have your camp here and be in the way of people that are putting their lives on the line and away from their families and fighting these fires for the rest of us, how do we not interfere with that, but also how do we also do that in and enjoy our hunt and have probably the best chance of success? How do we change our plans? How do we do all these things in and around fires, fire seasons and fires during the hunt? So we're going to touch on all these things coming up, But I first just wanted to. Let's understand the animals. What are they doing? What's happening during this fire? What's the normal sequence of events post fire? What. What are some of the benefits? What are some of the drawbacks? What are some of the things that they are encountering? And then now we're going to go into how do we utilize that for our hunt strategy and plan, and then how do we make other plans and stay informed during the season if there is a fire? So that's all coming up. I hope you guys enjoyed this podcast. And with so much in the news about fires happening and some Areas being drier than others. I think this is just timely topics to think about and also so you don't freak out and be like, oh, I have this tag and it's just a part of it. It's a part of hunting in the west and all that stuff. Now, I do think that there is a lot of habitat restoration that needed post fire because we do have. I probably should even dove deeper into it. Some of the downfalls of post fires, invasive species coming in, cheatgrass, and other things that start to degrade the habitat and the landscape. Now, one of the organizations that I know does a lot of work around this, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. If you guys aren't members, be a member. It really helps improve the habitat. They do a ton of research on fires and animals and understanding how animals utilize the landscape post fire. There's just a ton of great research around it. And the more research we can get about how fires are affecting populations, what animals benefit, how they benefit, like if there are fires that aren't all benefits. And so we find that out through studies and really understanding the animals. And then when we find the one, like, why didn't this one benefit? Why is it, you know, decreasing the population? Well, what can we. Maybe it's like, oh, this invasive she grass is coming in. Okay, well, we need to put more effort into seeding projects or we need to protect these kind of resources within the fire and just understand. Or we need to limit tag. Like just understanding the management behind it is going to help us navigate a lot of the landscape when it comes to larger fires and other things that we're. That we're faced with. Or how does land management beforehand affect populations and then contribute that to the fire. So all that kind of information, all that kind of research and then all that kind of money that goes back into rebuilding and reestablishing habitat is huge. So if you aren't members of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, I encourage you sign up, join, be a member. Also, big game days in Missoula is going to be this weekend, 16th and 19th. I'll be exhibiting there with our day six arrow company. There's also a tough elk competition this weekend through Mountain Tough. So you can sign up for that. Complete the workout and you're entered to win a guide Alcon. I think it's for two people. Don't quote me on that. But definitely, definitely the winner gets. That's a random draw. So you just, you finish the workout, you get entered to win, and you get a guided elk hunt. That's pretty cool. There's also like attack event, archery event. So we'll have our day six arrow booth there. There's a shooting event. I think there's spots available for Sunday still. I don't know about the other days. Look into that. And then there's a lot of events around town, so I'll be around hanging out. If you're there, come say hi. I appreciate it. And a lot of people, you know, if you listen to the podcast, let me know or whatever, you got a hunting question, that's what I'll be there for. So I appreciate you guys so much. Check that out. Think about that. And until next week, I'm going to say. What am I going to say? I was going to say burn, baby, burn, but that just seems like. That just seems counterproductive to what we really want. I'm just going to say fire it up. There we go. That's a good one. Catch you guys later.