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Damp January: Why Is This So Hard? (with Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall) - Live Wire with Luke Burbank | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Damp January: Why Is This So Hard? (with Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall)

Live Wire with Luke Burbank

Wed Jan 08 2025

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank - Episode Summary: "Damp January: Why Is This So Hard?" Featuring Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall

Introduction

In the episode titled "Damp January: Why Is This So Hard?", Luke Burbank, host of Live Wire with Luke Burbank on PRX, delves into the intricate relationship between alcohol consumption and personal well-being. Joining him is Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall, a writer and author best known for his book Hungover: The Morning After and One Man’s Quest for the Cure. The episode explores themes of moderation, the challenges of overcoming hangovers, and the psychological ties that bind individuals to alcohol.

Background of Guest and Topic

Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall is introduced as a writer, raconteur, and someone deeply immersed in the world of alcohol. Luke Burbank shares his admiration for Shaughnessy's dedication to conquering one of his own nemeses: the hangover. Shaughnessy undertook a years-long project to get intensely intoxicated and experimented with various global remedies to alleviate hangover symptoms, culminating in his book Hungover: The Morning After and One Man’s Quest for the Cure.

Personal Experiences with Alcohol and Hangovers

The conversation begins with Shaughnessy recounting a vivid memory from a bachelor party in Tucson, Arizona, where excessive drinking led to severe dehydration and a heat stroke:

"I remember waking up in the middle of the desert and there were lizards that were licking the last bits of moisture from my eyeballs. And I thought, well, you know, this is hell." (17:00)

Luke shares his own battles with hangovers and how they have influenced his drinking habits:

"To the degree that I've moderated my drinking at all in recent years, a lot of that is due to the hangover." (02:00)

Strategies for Moderation

Shaughnessy discusses his current relationship with alcohol, emphasizing a balance between enjoyment and functionality. He aims to limit his consumption to three or four drinks a day, finding that exceeding this amount leads to problematic behavior, while drinking less often leaves him craving more:

"I realize that there's probably a sort of a sweet spot for me personally in regards to being able to balance my enjoyment of life with my ability to function in it well." (05:10)

He employs strategies such as delaying the start of drinking by engaging in activities like going to the gym or postponing dinner. However, he acknowledges the difficulty in maintaining structure as a freelance writer without a fixed schedule.

Psychological and Social Aspects

The episode delves into the psychological motivations behind drinking, particularly for writers. Shaughnessy explains that unlike actors who receive immediate feedback and applause, writers work in solitude and use alcohol as a form of self-reward:

"You do give yourself these little rewards, right? And it's actually, you know, I talk to my students a lot about this, too." (09:00)

Luke relates to this by discussing how alcohol makes him feel more social and connected, despite not inherently being a highly social person:

"If you just ran into me somewhere or you saw me backstage at our radio show, you would think this is a highly social person... Every person at the bar is fascinating to me." (30:21)

The Dichotomy of Alcohol

Shaughnessy articulates the dual nature of alcohol, highlighting its ability to enhance sensory experiences while also being a source of significant personal and social harm:

"I think actually that what conclusion I've come to... is that it's almost that that I love about alcohol, which is that its power reaches both ways so, so drastically." (29:00)

This dichotomy reflects the broader human experience with substances that offer both pleasure and peril, underscoring the complexity of managing alcohol consumption.

Future Outlook and Reflections

As the conversation progresses, both hosts reflect on their future relationships with alcohol. Shaughnessy shares his uncertainty about how his drinking habits will evolve, especially in light of his father's passing and the contemplation of mortality:

"I'm hoping I have at least one more good decade in me before the negatives outweigh the positives in every manner in regards to drinking." (33:01)

Luke expresses a hope that he will naturally lose interest in excessive drinking as he ages, though he admits uncertainty about achieving this shift:

"I'm just hoping that, as I move into the later part of my life, somehow I'll just become less interested." (34:38)

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a lighthearted exchange about future episodes and the ongoing dialogue around drinking. Luke emphasizes the importance of sharing these personal stories to foster understanding and perhaps inspire change among listeners.

Notable Quotes

Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall on the Abyss of a Metaphysical Hangover:

"I think anybody who's ever felt it knows what I mean by that. That is the great abyss where the world and your own life seems impossible, I guess." (00:05:10)
Shaughnessy on Being a Writer Who Drinks:

"I was just like, okay, I know how to drink. I don't need to deal with the rest of this stuff." (09:00)
Luke on the Allure of Alcohol for Social Connections:

"Every person at the bar is fascinating to me. And it feels in the moment like I'm connecting with people in a way that I don't otherwise." (30:21)
Shaughnessy on the Dual Nature of Alcohol:

"It's almost that that I love about alcohol, which is that its power reaches both ways so, so drastically." (29:00)
Luke on His Changing Relationship with Drinking:

"I've realized that I may be a little less socially comfortable than I think I am, but get a couple drinks in me and literally every person at the bar is fascinating to me." (30:21)

Final Thoughts

"Damp January: Why Is This So Hard?" offers a candid exploration of alcohol consumption, its impact on personal and professional life, and the ongoing struggle for moderation. Through shared vulnerabilities and personal anecdotes, Luke Burbank and Shaughnessy Bishop-Stall provide listeners with insightful reflections on why navigating one's relationship with alcohol is often an arduous journey.

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Transcript

Shaughnessy Bishop Stahl (0:00)

And they pulled me out of the car and put me in the shadow of a cactus and then went to try to find gas. And I remember at some point waking up in the middle of the desert and there were lizards that were licking the last bits of moisture from my eyeballs. And I thought, well, you know, this is how.

Luke Burbank (0:35)

From Livewire, Radio and prx. This is damp January. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. The guy that you just heard, his name is Shaughnessy Bishop Stahl, who was a guest on the radio show that.

Luke Burbank (0:51)

I host, it's called Livewire.

Luke Burbank (0:53)

And he is a writer and a raconteur and a drinker. Like, for real. For real. Not like your friend who had three white claws on the fourth of July and is, like, still talking about it. And I gotta tell you, I knew right away that I was gonna like this guy because for one thing, Shaughnessy set out to conquer what has been one of my main nemeses. It's been one of the main things that I've hated dealing with in my adult life, and that is the hangover. Shaughnessy went on this, like, years long project of just getting intensely loaded and then trying various remedies, like from all over the world that were supposed to help you recover from a hangover. He wrote an entire book about this called Hungover the Morning after and One Man's Quest for the Cure. And I cannot overstate this, how similar Shaughnessy and I are. We are kind of the same person. I learned when we were talking back.

Luke Burbank (2:00)

In 2018 for Livewire.

Luke Burbank (2:05)

And then you also talk in the book about the sort of metaphysical hangover. What do you mean by that?

Shaughnessy Bishop Stahl (2:10)

Oh, I think anybody who's ever felt it knows what I mean by that. That is the great abyss where the world and your own life seems impossible, I guess.

Luke Burbank (2:24)

Happy New Year, everyone.

Shaughnessy Bishop Stahl (2:28)

I think how I describe it in the beginning of the book is it's that moment when you roll over in bed onto something that feels like a fish and then realize it's your soul.

Luke Burbank (2:42)

I have to say that, like, over the years since that interview, I have really thought about Shaughnessy a lot, particularly as I've kind of cycled in and out of different levels of sobriety and then very much not sobriety and then some kind of moderation. I've always had this thought in the back of my mind. I wonder how Shaughnessy is doing. Like, is having the cure for the hangover? Is it like having the ring in Lord of the Rings? In that it's like, just too much power for a non hobbit to have. Like, to the degree that I've moderated my drinking at all in recent years, a lot of that is due to the hangover. Like, I am 48 and I am down for the count for the next day or two if I overdo it at this point. Anyway, when we had this idea for doing this limited series talking about drinking, like, one of the first names that popped into my head was Shaughnessy. Cause I wanted to find out, like, where he was at with things. And it took us a while, but we found him in Canada where he lives and also where he teaches. And we called him up.

Luke Burbank (21:47)

Week early because there's just all this kind of like preamble stuff. There's all these media days that are leading up to the game. And I was the way, if you're a kind of high level ESPN person, you're staying at a hotel right by the stadium. And if you're me at the time from npr, you're staying at a hotel in Livonia, Michigan, which is a roughly 40 minute bus ride outside of Detroit. So I'm out in Livonia, Michigan, and I figure out, well, I've got to make someplace my local watering hole for this week, that I'm in Michigan. And so I end up going to this place called Stables Sports Bar. And I'm going in there every night. And by like the Saturday night before the Super Bowl, I'm like a regular. You know, I've been there like five or six nights in a row to the point where when they close it, one of the cooks like invites me back to their house. Which, if you're a certain kind of drinker, is like a high praise, right? To be like invited by the staff to some other thing. Of course, it was one of those houses where it's like there's a pit bull that no one's really taking care of. Someone's occasionally trying to get it to smoke weed. You know, it's just like a. I'm like standing in the kitchen with these strangers. They're calling me Radio Guy. Like, I mean, and then I just end up. I'm just consuming God knows what, you know, all night and late into the night. And now it's three in the morning and four in the morning and I am downstairs and I just remember like, there was a shag rug and a big Detroit Lions, like, blanket that was tacked up. And I'm in this little bathroom in the basement because I'm now sick and the door doesn't really shut. So I'm holding the door shut with my foot and some partygoer is just knocking on the door going, radio guy. Are you okay, radio guy? And I wake up the next morning under that Detroit Lions blanket on a couch in this basement and I mean, can essentially not see straight. It's that kind of out of a movie kind of moment of triple vision or something. And the thing is, I still have to go cover the super bowl, right? And I just remember like the teams running out on the field and I'm sitting on like the 50 yard line of the super bowl, people are screaming their lungs out and just almost having an out of body experience because I was still so, so inebriated at like five in the afternoon. And you know, it was one of those things where as I was on that bus, I was saying to myself, never ever again, like this can never happen again. And by the time I'm in the locker room after the game and I'm interviewing the victorious Pittsburgh Steelers, I'm starting to feel okay, you know, And I get up Monday morning and I'm thinking, well, that's an epic story. I mean, I think that's part of the challenge for somebody like you or I, who are kind of storytellers by nature, is that it's really alluring and I think sometimes dangerous that these all just become good stories.

Shaughnessy Bishop Stahl (24:34)

Oh, for sure. And especially like when I was doing the research for the, for the Hangover book, part of the purpose was to see what I could put myself through. And also, you know, for you, when you're talking about a Super bowl, oftentimes your worst hangover isn't just how you're feeling it, but it's, but it's what you have to then do while you're feeling that way. And so, you know, when I went to Vegas, the whole point of that trip was to do things you would never ever want to do with a hangover. With a hangover. Right. So I was on this kind of fam. You would know these familiarization media kind of junkets where I was with a bunch of journalists and we did things like jump off the stratosphere, do the stratosphere and shoot bazookas and fly a, an actual fighter jet and drive a race car. And I did every one of those things after becoming extremely hungover and then going and visiting this self proclaimed hangover doctor who would try to cure me and then put me back out into the field. Right. And it didn't go well. It did not. But speaking of the Super Bowl, I think the super bowl of drinking was when I went to Berlin and they had the largest mixologist conference in the world. Right. It's about five square blocks of this massive convention center that is just full with hundreds and hundreds of the best bartenders in the world who are mixing drinks for you for free. And it went for three days. And by the third day, I managed to lose my passport and so was not able to leave Berlin. And it was. I forget what holiday it was, but the Canadian consulate wasn't open either. So I ended up living on the streets of Berlin because I had no money, no passport, no Canadian consulate. And it wasn't until I'd finally got a new passport and a new ticket and all this that I realized I just given them my passport at the front desk of the hotel when I checked in, and they had it behind there and I just completely forgotten about it. After three days of bartending super bowl.