Live Wire with Luke Burbank (PRX)
Episode: Dana Schwartz, Jenny Odell, and Black Belt Eagle Scout
Air Date: October 3, 2025 (Rebroadcast, originally recorded May 2023)
Episode Overview
This episode of Live Wire features lively conversations with writer and podcaster Dana Schwartz (author of Immortality: A Love Story), interdisciplinary artist and author Jenny Odell (author of Saving Time), plus a musical performance from Black Belt Eagle Scout. The episode explores topics such as unconventional roads to creative careers, time beyond the "clock", the peculiarities of royalty, and the healing power of music rooted in Indigenous identity.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Celebrating "Good News": Uplifting Stories from Oklahoma
- [04:50–10:17]
- Elena Passarello shares the story of Rebecca Peterson, 2023's National Teacher of the Year, who inspired teachers through a blog called "One Good Thing".
- Luke Burbank recounts a feel-good tale of Oklahoma police responding to cries for help that turned out to be from a lonely, vocal goat.
Notable Quotes:
- “She’s got this practice of daily joy that is really making a difference...” – Elena Passarello on Rebecca Peterson [07:08]
- “This goat was really upset ... not being able to hang out with his buddy.” – Luke Burbank [08:50]
2. Interview: Dana Schwartz on Royalty, YA Novels, and Morbid History
- [11:16–27:33]
About the Books ("Anatomy: A Love Story" and "Immortality: A Love Story")
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Schwartz describes the 19th-century backdrop of her novels, focusing on a young woman, Hazel Sinnett, who wants to be a doctor but faces societal obstacles.
- “The 19th century was a wild time for medicine and surgery... there was an underground industry of men who would dig up dead bodies...” [11:44]
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Schwartz discusses why she insisted on keeping the visceral “blood and guts” in her YA novel.
- “Teenagers are weird and gross. When I was a teenager, I ... loved, I was listening to My Chemical Romance all the time.” [15:00]
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Addresses the blurring line between YA and adult literature due to adult readership of YA.
On the Podcast "Noble Blood"
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Schwartz details her process: deep dives into the overlooked and shocking lives of historical royals.
- “It takes a little bit of time to, you know, read through everything I can and to try to understand it as best I can and then to put it back out into a form that’s hopefully entertaining.” [18:27]
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Discusses society’s continued fascination with monarchy.
- “It’s weird when random people, through accidents of their birthday throughout history are given control of armies ... and bad things happen a lot of the time.” [19:50] (Opening quote of episode [03:28] is called back here.)
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Notes that most modern monarchs are figureheads, likening their existence to pandas kept in human captivity.
"Palacy or Fallacy" Game: Real or Fake Royal Headlines
- Humorous quiz segment where Schwartz guesses which tabloid headlines about royals are genuine.
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Luke: “Ed Sheeran mistaken for Prince Harry by the Royal family.”
Dana: “I hope that one’s made up.”
Luke: “Absolutely real.” [25:14–25:17] -
Luke: “The woman who took Prince Harry’s virginity... is auctioning the Miss Piggy toy he gave her for charity.”
Dana: “Okay, I'm gonna say made up.”
Luke: “That's absolutely real.” [26:47–26:51] -
Schwartz expresses sympathy for royals subjected to public scrutiny:
“He never should have been a prince. He should have, like, owned a surf shop...” [26:58]
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On Writing for TV
- Schwartz discusses working on "She-Hulk: Attorney at Law," noting the mental shift between historical novels and contemporary superhero narratives:
- “In the morning I'll be writing a novel or a TV show, and then in the afternoon, I'm reading these letters from the 1700s from the horniest people you've ever met.” [23:40]
3. Listener Responses: "Favorite Ways to Waste Time"
- [29:11–31:18]
- The show gathers quirky responses to the question of how listeners "waste" time.
- Examples include window shopping expensive real estate, writing songs for cats, and borrowing—but not reading—library books.
Notable Quotes:
- “I just wrote a new one this week that I think is really gonna top the charts. My cat's named Bubbles, and I pick her up and I sing a song called ‘Bubbles Baby’ to the tune of the Muppet Babies theme.” – Luke Burbank [29:52]
4. Interview: Jenny Odell on Rethinking Time
- [31:59–41:08]
Motivation for Writing "Saving Time"
- Odell wrote the book before the pandemic to address her own “pained” relationship with time—anxiety about scarcity and the future.
- “I was just noticing that all of my thoughts about time felt very pained or painful, like time was either running out... I didn't have enough of it.” [32:11]
Learning from Moss: Different "Languages" of Time
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Inspired by the non-linear, adaptable nature of moss and its rhythms.
- “Moss can go dormant... and then come back in the presence of water, that’s just a notion of time that feels more stretchy and less linear...” [33:44]
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Odell explores concepts beyond “time is money,” introducing ecological time, geological time, communal time, and “crip time” from disability studies.
- “That’s one language about time of many... Ecological time, geological time, communal time, crip time...” [34:12]
Time in American Culture
- Contrasts U.S. attitudes (e.g., "Protestant work ethic", individualism) with other cultures' collective or leisurely approaches to time.
- “I have 24 hours, just like everyone else... my job is to run them through my sort of success factory more and more efficiently...” [36:36]
Obama’s Reading List
- Odell relates how she learned her prior book was recommended by Barack Obama via her boyfriend seeing it on Twitter—no personal call.
- “My boyfriend and I were on our way to a movie and I just heard him in the next room say, like, I think he said, ‘Have some weird news’ because he had seen it on Twitter.” [37:36]
The Capitalist Clock
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Odell critiques the “productivity bros” culture and the notion that time scarcity = personal failing.
- “I talk about productivity bros, which is my term for like a person who makes a certain type of content online about, like, crushing your morning and like making a smoothie at 3am or whatever.” [39:23 (also previously at 03:42)]
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Emphasizes collective action over self-blame for lack of time.
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Asserts that “capitalism remains the problem” regarding the commodification of time.
- “The first chapter is about the history of that concept of time is money. And you find out that time is money—the time in that equation is other people's labor time.” [40:25]
5. Music: Black Belt Eagle Scout
- [44:45–52:34]
Interview with Katherine Paul (Black Belt Eagle Scout)
- Paul details her musical upbringing on the Swinomish reservation, influenced by both cultural singing and the 1990s Pacific Northwest DIY music scene.
- “Middle school, high school, I was like, everyday people do music. I could do music too.” [44:56]
- Discusses crafting the atmospheric sound of her album The Land, the Water, the Sky with influences from wilderness and Riot Grrrl.
- Attests to the personal and cultural healing that comes from returning to her ancestral home during the pandemic, which shaped the album.
- “There was a lot more space to walk around and feel...connected to where I’m from. And that was really helpful in the writing process of the record.” [46:50]
Musical Performance:
Plays "Don’t Give Up"—a dreamy, guitar-laden song described by host Luke as “really dreamy, but it also has a lot of really great rockin’ guitar.”
[47:25–52:34]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “It’s weird when random people, through accidents of their birthday throughout history are given control of armies. That’s a weird thing. And bad things happen a lot of the time.” – Dana Schwartz [03:28, 19:50]
- “I think ... like, that sort of notion of control remains, like in the way time is talked about. When you say time is money." – Jenny Odell [41:03]
- “I mean, for me ... I always knew I was going to move back home. ... That was really helpful in the writing process of the record.” – Black Belt Eagle Scout [46:50]
Timestamps for Major Segments
- 04:50 — Best News All Week: Teacher of the Year & the Lonely Goat
- 11:16 — Dana Schwartz interview begins
- 24:53 — Palacy or Fallacy (Real or Fake Royal Headlines)
- 29:11 — Listeners’ Favorite Ways to Waste Time
- 31:59 — Jenny Odell interview begins
- 39:23 — Odell on "productivity bros" / Blame for time scarcity
- 44:45 — Black Belt Eagle Scout interview
- 47:25 — Black Belt Eagle Scout performance: “Don’t Give Up”
Overall Tone & Style
The hosts, guests, and house band create an easygoing, humorous, intellectually curious vibe that combines deep dives on nerdy topics with playful games and heartfelt musical performance. Authentic interview moments and witty banter keep the show energetic and relatable for a broad audience.
Summary
- The episode is a blend of book talk, historical oddities, philosophical musings on time and productivity, lighthearted quizzes, and evocative indie music—all woven together in a smart, upbeat style.
- Key threads include reclaiming meaning in how we spend our time, the enduring weirdness and allure of royalty, and the power of music grounded in identity and place.
For more, visit livewireradio.org or check out the podcast via your favorite app.