Live Wire with Luke Burbank

Episode: Héctor Tobar, Jena Friedman, and Joseph
Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Luke Burbank (with Elena Passarello) | Produced by PRX

Main Theme

This episode of Live Wire centers around identity, humor, and storytelling in American culture, featuring:

• Pulitzer Prize-winning author and journalist Héctor Tobar discussing his new book “Our Migrant Souls,” which meditates on the complexities and meanings of being Latino in America;
• Acclaimed comedian, filmmaker, and author Jena Friedman on her memoir “Not Funny,” wrestling with boundaries of comedy and processing personal loss through humor;
• A moving musical performance by indie folk trio Joseph, who pay tribute to Tom Waits.

The episode blends thoughtful discussion on race and identity, reflections on creativity and comedy, and uplifting music.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Best News of the Week (04:20)

Wig Rebellion in the Workplace

• Elena Passarello shares a story about a young woman, Emily Ben Shudder, navigating corporate dress codes that ban unnaturally colored hair by wearing outlandish, technically “natural-colored” wigs to her service job.
• Her antics inspire others facing similar rules, sparking broader acts of dress code rebellion.
• Quote: “Her new mantra: The worse the wig, the better.” (05:28, Elena Passarello)

The Home Depot Cat

• Luke Burbank tells the story of “Leo,” a rescued cat living freely in a New Jersey Home Depot, cared for by employees and now a local celebrity on TikTok. This inspires others to consider similar adoptions.
• Quote: “He hangs out in the toilet section sometimes.” (08:44, Luke Burbank)

2. Héctor Tobar – On Identity, “Latino” & Family (10:35 – 29:20)

Photo at Griffith Park (10:55)

• Tobar recounts a childhood photo, symbolizing his immigrant family’s relationship with American modernity and aspiration.
• Quote: “My father wanted to take a picture... in front of this symbol of American science and technology and modernity.” (11:04, Héctor Tobar)

Navigating Identity as a Child of Immigrants (11:31)

• Grew up in L.A. surrounded by both the mythology of the U.S. and the stories of Guatemala—volcanoes, coups, tamales.
• Quote: "My parents told me stories about Guatemala as this land of wonder, volcanoes, military coups, tamales... and that we lived in the United States, which was the greatest country on earth." (11:40, Héctor Tobar)

On the “Latino” Label (12:41)

• Argues “Latino” is a marketing or umbrella term that masks deep differences within the community and erases indigeneity and African roots.
• Quote: "Latino is essentially a term that... feels like a marketing term. It groups together a lot of different kinds of people." (12:41, Héctor Tobar)
• Points out that the term is driven partly by practicality and solidarity despite its limitations.
• Quote: "The terms are also... they're expressions of solidarity." (14:59, Héctor Tobar)
• Mentions recent academic terms Latinx, Latinae as more “university terms.”

Proximity to American History (17:47)

• Childhood home was 200 feet from where James Earl Ray, MLK Jr.’s assassin, lived.
• His mother’s driver to the hospital was a Memphis civil rights activist who became Tobar’s godfather—a story of stark contrasts in neighbors and intertwined histories.
• Quote: "So I'm living next to this white supremacist, but I'm also living next to an NAACP activist for civil rights." (19:20, Héctor Tobar)

Writing “Our Migrant Souls” (19:47)

• Inspired by James Baldwin’s “I Am Not Your Negro,” felt that Latinos lacked an equivalent meditation on race.
• Quote: “I gave myself the task of writing that book.” (20:25, Héctor Tobar)

Modern Latino Experience

• Nathan Apodaca TikTok Story (20:56): Viral moment with man skateboarding, drinking juice. Showed resilience and transformation of hardship into joy—reflective of cultural hybridity and pride in roots.
• Quote (Read from Book): “Nathan Apodaca transforms his precarity into something else... he lip syncs to her [Stevie Nicks] voice... he wears a feather tattoo on his skull, which he wears in honor of his Native American mother.” (21:24, Héctor Tobar)

L.A., Hollywood, and Representation (23:18)

• Notes irony of L.A. as both the heart of Latino America and of Hollywood, which historically underrepresents Latinos in its stories and casts.
• Quote: “Star Wars is really an allegory about imperialism... these stories of people of color... become fantasy stories, [but] there’s hardly any Latino people in these movies.” (23:18, Héctor Tobar)

Changing Nature of Migration & Borders (25:20)

• Describes how increased border militarization since the 1990s has led to generations of separated families, shifting the dynamics of immigration and community ties.
• Quote: “What the fence has done is it’s become this big scar in millions of Latino families.” (26:13, Héctor Tobar)

Student Stories and Teaching (26:27)

• Incorporates his UC Irvine students’ stories in his book, using writing prompts on the Latino experience which often yield humor and emotion.
• Quote: “You’ll get an A if you make me cry or you make me laugh.” (27:37, Héctor Tobar)

Hope vs. Despair in America (27:50)

• Despite inequality, Tobar feels hope from observing communities moving forward together, and feels that “being Latino is just another way of being American.”
• Quote: “Being Latino really is just another way of being American.” (29:02, Héctor Tobar)

3. Storytelling About Failure and Comedy – Elena Passarello (30:48)

• Elena shares a personal anecdote from her early writing career about misjudging the tone of her own story (thought it was funny, audience found it sad), highlighting the unpredictable relationship between intention and reception in creative work.
• Quote: “Some people think that they’re sad but are actually very funny... and some people think that they’re, like, yucksters, but it turns out they have, like, a dark, sad core on the inside.” (33:05, Elena Passarello)

4. Jena Friedman – On “Not Funny,” Grief, and the Edges of Comedy (34:17 – 45:23)

On Her Mother’s Death and Comedy

• Friedman dedicates her book to her late mother, who inspired her comedic sensibility. Struggles to turn grief into humor, facing the reality that some experiences defy laughter.
• Quote: “I was like, hey everybody, my mom died. And your mom’s gonna die... and no one laughed.” (35:15, Jenna Friedman)

Pushing Boundaries in Comedy

• Recounts a formative experience making jokes about AIDS to comedian-mentor Mike DeStefano, who later revealed his wife had died of the disease—a moment that shaped her awareness of comedic boundaries and humanity.
• Quote: “You need to cross the line to know where it is.” (39:22, Jenna Friedman)

Freer Attitude Toward Taboo (40:08)

• Friedman still maintains that “you can joke about anything as long as you’re coming from a place of humanity”; acknowledges the role of context and power structures in determining what’s acceptable.
• Quote: “I do still think you can joke about anything as long as you're coming from a place of humanity or not.” (40:08, Jenna Friedman)

Likability and Gender (41:01)

• Discusses how likability is weaponized against women and people of color, and how she personally only began caring about being liked when pursuing a comedy career, for pragmatic reasons.
• Quote: “I need people to like me... so I can get stage time and get better at this thing I love to do.” (41:14, Jenna Friedman)

On “Soft Focus” and Subversive TV (42:03)

• Talks about making Adult Swim’s "Soft Focus," a subversive feminist comedy show, as a direct response to alt-right programming and male-dominated comedy spaces.
• Aim was to reach unexpected audiences (“guy gamers”) and perhaps shift perspectives.

What Does It Mean to “Make It”? (43:59)

• On being nominated for an Oscar for “Borat 2” but still not feeling like she’s “made it.” Quotes Jon Stewart: “I still don’t [feel like I’ve made it].”
• Quote: “I am happiest when I’m doing work with cool people and making cool things that say things.” (45:05, Jenna Friedman)

5. Musical Performance — Joseph (51:43 – 55:50)

• The folk trio Joseph performs a soul-stirring cover of Tom Waits’ “Come On Up to the House.”
• Their harmonies and emotional delivery serve as a moving close to a show all about ancestral roots, invention, and resilience.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|------------------------------| | 05:28 | Elena Passarello | “Her new mantra: The worse the wig, the better.” | | 08:44 | Luke Burbank | “He hangs out in the toilet section sometimes.” | | 12:41 | Héctor Tobar | "Latino is essentially a term that... feels like a marketing term." | | 14:59 | Héctor Tobar | "The terms are also... they're expressions of solidarity." | | 19:20 | Héctor Tobar | "So I'm living next to this white supremacist, but I'm also living next to an NAACP activist for civil rights." | | 21:24 | Héctor Tobar | “Nathan Apodaca transforms his precarity into something else... he lip syncs to her [Stevie Nicks] voice.” | | 23:18 | Héctor Tobar | “Star Wars is really an allegory about imperialism... [but] there’s hardly any Latino people in these movies.” | | 26:13 | Héctor Tobar | “What the fence has done is it’s become this big scar in millions of Latino families.” | | 27:37 | Héctor Tobar | “You’ll get an A if you make me cry or you make me laugh.” | | 29:02 | Héctor Tobar | “Being Latino really is just another way of being American.” | | 33:05 | Elena Passarello | “Some people think that they’re sad but are actually very funny...” | | 35:15 | Jenna Friedman | “Hey everybody, my mom died. And your mom’s gonna die... no one laughed.” | | 39:22 | Jenna Friedman | “You need to cross the line to know where it is.” | | 40:08 | Jenna Friedman | “I do still think you can joke about anything as long as you're coming from a place of humanity or not.” | | 41:14 | Jenna Friedman | “I need people to like me... so I can get stage time and get better at this thing I love to do.” | | 45:05 | Jenna Friedman | “I am happiest when I’m doing work with cool people and making cool things that say things.” |

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:20] – Elena’s workplace wig story
• [06:41] – Luke’s Home Depot cat story
• [10:35] – Start of Héctor Tobar interview
• [17:47] – Tobar on living next to James Earl Ray
• [20:56] – Tobar reads from “Our Migrant Souls”
• [23:18] – Tobar on Latino representation in Hollywood
• [26:27] – Tobar on student stories and teaching at UC Irvine
• [27:50] – Tobar on hope and being “more American”
• [30:48] – Elena’s funny/sad writing misfire story
• [34:17] – Start of Jenna Friedman interview
• [35:15] – Friedman on processing her mom’s death on stage
• [39:04] – Friedman on boundaries in comedy
• [40:08] – On what’s fair game in comedy
• [41:01] – Friedman on likability and gender
• [42:03] – Friedman on making “Soft Focus”
• [43:59] – On “making it” in comedy & art
• [51:43] – Joseph performs “Come On Up to the House” (song intro)
• [52:38] – Start of Joseph’s performance

Overall Tone & Language

The show delivers thoughtful, candid, often humorous conversations, balancing earnest reflection on race/identity and grief with comedic insight and warmth. The interplay between personal stories, societal observation, and cultural critique keeps the tone authentic, smart, and inviting—true to Live Wire’s “late-night for radio” sensibility.

For Listeners New to the Episode

This episode offers a rich blend of perspectives on what it means to belong—to a family, a nation, a community, or a creative calling. Through Tobar’s nuanced exploration of Latino identity, Friedman’s comedy-as-coping, and Joseph’s emotive harmonies, listeners receive a tapestry of voices wrestling with America’s past and present, with humor and heart.