← Live Wire with Luke Burbank
Live Wire with Luke Burbank
Ira Madison III & Riki Lindhome
00:52:02
This episode features cultural critic and podcaster Ira Madison III and musical comedy from Riki Lindhome.
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- [00:03]
Luke Burbank
Hey there. Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. This week on the show, we sit down with cultural critic and writer Ira Madison iii. We're gonna talk to Ira about his latest essay collection, Pure Innocent Fun, which breaks down, among other things, why the VHS era Disney movies were the best. And we are talking about the actual cases, the VHS cases they were in, not even the content. Plus, we are going to surprise Ira, to be honest. We're going to shock Ira on stage with guest Chuck Klosterman, who was hugely influential on Ira's career. Then the actress, comedian and musician Ricky Lindholm will stop by and tell us why she has written a song for her child called Don't Google Mommy. Don't touch the dial. If anybody's still using a dial, stick around because this week's episode of Livewire gets started right after this. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card is everything a credit card should be.
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Luke Burbank
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Elena Passarello
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- [01:25]
Luke Burbank
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- [01:52]
Ira Madison III
From prx, it's Live Wire this week, writer Ira Madison iii.
- [02:06]
Chuck Klosterman
I think that you sort of have to align on culture the sort of, you know, the way you sort of want to align on politics with people.
- [02:13]
Ira Madison III
And music from Ricky Lindholm.
- [02:15]
Elena Passarello
And the songs are just like, they're just not for everybody. They're for middle aged people and they're dirty and vulnerable. And if you don't hear a song about, you know, asking someone for sperm, fine, I get it.
- [02:28]
Ira Madison III
And our fabulous house band, I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.
- [02:40]
Luke Burbank
Hey, thank you so much, Elaina Passarello. Thanks to everyone tuning in from all over America. We have something a little bit unprecedented this week on the show. Elena. Remember when we surprised our guest Ira Madison III on stage?
- [02:55]
Ira Madison III
Oh, yeah.
- [02:56]
Luke Burbank
It was like something where we hoped he would be surprised at this element of the show. But then it was almost like a borderline too much of a surprise. Like I wondered if he was gonna be able to continue.
- [03:08]
Ira Madison III
Yeah, I feel like his atomic structure was shifting with the surprise that we laid on him. But it was so fun.
- [03:14]
Luke Burbank
It was. And memorable. And I can't wait for everyone to hear it this week on the show. First, though, of course, we gotta start things off the way we always do with the best news we heard all week. This is our little reminder at the top of the show that there is still tiny pockets of good news happening in the world. We find those pockets and we tell you about them because we know you need it. Elena, what's the best news you heard all week?
- [03:42]
Ira Madison III
Okay, so picture this, if you will. It's a March day in Shropshire, England, and 42 year old Mary Karen is buying chocolate at the local convenience store for her nieces.
- [03:57]
Luke Burbank
Okay.
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Ira Madison III
She notices this guy. She saw him when she was coming in and he's got his face all covered up and she's like, maybe he's like a motorcycle guy or something. He's got like one of those like turtlenecks that goes all the way up to your eyeballs and a skull cap on. And then he comes into the convenience store and he puts something up against the door and he says, and this sounds very British to me, I am going to take your money. That's what he says to the clerk.
- [04:21]
Luke Burbank
Oh, this is like the world's most polite robbery.
- [04:24]
Ira Madison III
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it was pretty rude. I think maybe there were some weapons involved.
- [04:28]
Luke Burbank
Okay, well then not polite at all.
- [04:30]
Ira Madison III
Polite statement, but a pretty dangerous situation. But here's what the guy didn't know. Auntie Mary is actually a black belt martial artist who has spent 20 years studying boxing, karate and jiu jitsu. So she just turns to him, he's like, there's video of this and he's like putting his hand in his pocket and she grabs his arm and starts like jiu jitsu, kicking him in the shins, and she kicks him all the way out the door.
- [04:57]
Luke Burbank
Wow.
- [04:58]
Ira Madison III
And my favorite detail of this, she's wearing high heels when she does it. So Auntie Mary, buying chocolates for her nieces in her high heels is a badass. And the guy runs down the street. And then the best part of the footage is she walks back to the counter, I guess to check on the clerk and maybe to keep buying her chocolates. And she says that her shoes were hurting her feet that day and that's why she's swaggering like John Wayne. But that walk back to the convenience store counter is pretty swaggy.
- [05:27]
Luke Burbank
I gotta say, I can't believe that that actually works. My whole thing about wanting to learn karate as a kid was because I wanted to find myself in a situation where I was being underestimated by some tough kind of people. And then I, like do this, like amazing self defense move that everyone's shocked by. This is actually what's been playing out for Auntie Mary.
- [05:48]
Ira Madison III
And that's what she said. She said, you know, I've imagined taking the legs of people, more people than I will ever need to. I've been training for this type of event in my mind for over 20 years. And now the event actually happened a couple of years ago. But the best news today is that the West Mercia police just gave Auntie Mary a commendation award for bravery issued by the police chief that went out this month. And of course she's being very humble about it.
- [06:14]
Luke Burbank
But I just think, I'm guessing that that even though it was a couple years ago, that was the last time anyone tried any funny business in that particular shop.
- [06:22]
Ira Madison III
Yeah, well, and I think the guy got caught and he was part of a ring of robberies. And so all three people are now off the streets. And we have a favorite aunt in Shropshire.
- [06:34]
Luke Burbank
Absolutely. My best news comes from North Branch, Minnesota, where a couple of siblings, Jenny Olsen and her brother Leo Parkin, were at the funeral for their father, Jerry Parkin. Jerry made it to 91 years old. He was a veteran. He was beloved within the family and at the church. And Jenny Olson recently told a local TV station there that they were getting ready for the funeral or something. And somebody from the church approached her and said, there's a bunch of people here in Burger King uniforms and they have a chair. And it was the staff of the local Burger King, where Jerry had been going for years. Every morning to have his coffee with his little buddies. They would sit around and as like to say, solve all of the world's problems.
- [07:28]
Ira Madison III
Yeah.
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Luke Burbank
And he was so beloved by the staff at that Burger King that that they in uniform came to his funeral as a total surprise to his children with his favorite chair. Of course. He had a chair, of course. And the specific chair that he would sit in, and they had it engraved with his name and his lifespan, his date of birth and his date of death on there. And it was this really, really emotional moment, of course, for his family to sort of have this understanding of how much he meant to These folks at this Burger King, it turns out that the general manager of that particular location did have to call corporate to find out if it was okay to start engraving. Apparently, corporate was okay with it, so they were able to do this.
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Ira Madison III
Good.
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Luke Burbank
But, I mean, what a sweet story about the way that we sort of impact other people, whether or not we're even aware of this. Also, by the way, Jerry's last meal, this is according to his son who was there. Jerry was moving, you know, towards the end of his life, and they asked him, what do you want to eat? And legit, he said, I want chicken nuggets, a cookie, and a shake from the Burger King. Yay. Which they brought him. So this is.
- [08:42]
Ira Madison III
I mean, this man, he truly found a place that makes him feel good. Like, that's fabulous.
- [08:48]
Luke Burbank
Absolutely. So Jerry Parkins memory being honored there by the local bk. Have it your way, folks, is the best news that I heard all week. All right, let's get our first guest on over to the show. He's one of the hosts of the pop culture podcast Keep It. He's also appeared on the Late show with Stephen Colbert, Watch what Happens Live, and the Wendy Williams Show. His debut collection of essays is called Pure Innocent Fun. Ira Madison III joined us at the Patricia Research center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon, to talk about the new book. Take a listen. Ira, welcome to Livewire.
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Chuck Klosterman
Hi. Thank you for having me.
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Luke Burbank
So nice to get to meet you. I've been a fan of yours for years.
- [09:48]
Chuck Klosterman
Thank you.
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Luke Burbank
This is really awesome. You start the book with a quote from bell hooks. And the quote is whether we're talking about race or class or gender, popular culture is where the pedagogy is. It's where the learning is. Do you see pop culture as, like, central to the way that we understand our world?
- [10:05]
Chuck Klosterman
I think that it's largely central to how I see the world. You know, it's how I first, I don't know, became comfortable with talking with people at school, making friends, you know, our shared bonds of, like, the things that we watched. And honestly, the quote, to be honest, too, just comes from my obsessiveness with, like, the Internet culture as well, because I don't know if you remember, there was this Tumblr that used to mix, like, bell hooks quotes with Saved by the Bell, and that was one of my favorite ones of it. So I ended up using the quote for the opening.
- [10:41]
Luke Burbank
Well, because right underneath the bell hooks quote is then a quote from Nene. Leakes from the Nene. Excuse me, Leakes from The Real Housewives of Atlanta. And then she's saying something to the effect of, it's a shame how people can turn something that was pure, innocent fun into drama. I'm guessing that that's related to the title of the book.
- [10:59]
Chuck Klosterman
Yeah, of course. You know, I think it's the idea that when you. You know, I mentioned in the book, you know, looking back on things sometimes is difficult because I think we always remember things that we love, whether that's experiences in life or it's just movies we like, songs that we like, people we may have liked in high school or middle school, et cetera. You look upon them fondly. Cause you tend to remember the good things. And I think when you go a little bit deeper in some of those memories, whether it's just through conversation, whether it's through a therapist's office, you realize that not everything was as, you know, pure and innocent or fun.
- [11:40]
Luke Burbank
You kind of jump right into the first chapter with a defense of the band Coldplay.
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Chuck Klosterman
I do.
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Luke Burbank
Which you had a sort of complicated relationship with growing up, it sounds like, because you really liked them, but you also sensed it was uncool to really like them.
- [11:55]
Chuck Klosterman
It was not cool to like Coldplay in the 2000s. You know, when they first debuted, there were a lot of punchlines about liking Coldplay, about liking Chris Martin. I think that has obviously shifted a bit in culture. But, no, it's also largely because the book was inspired by one of my favorite books, which is Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs by Chuck Klosterman. And so my book really was just inspired by how much I love that book, how much a lot of my pop culture, I guess, opinions had been formed by it in high school. And revisiting it during COVID particularly when we were locked in the house. And I was just rereading it, I realized that a lot of my opinions were formed from the book, but then a lot of them had sort of changed. And so the book was largely built not as, like, a response to the book, but sort of in conversation with it. Sort of similar to, I guess, Exile and Guyville Bing in conversation with Exile on Main Street.
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Ira Madison III
Yeah. Oh, this is your exile in Guyville?
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Chuck Klosterman
Yeah.
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Ira Madison III
That's very cool.
- [13:01]
Chuck Klosterman
Yeah. You know, I'm probably as angry as Liz Phaire was.
- [13:06]
Ira Madison III
You're the Liz Phaire of, like, pop culture memoirs and essays.
- [13:12]
Luke Burbank
This is Livewire from prx. We're talking to the cultural critic and writer and podcaster, Ira Madison iii. Coming up, we are gonna quiz Ira on his knowledge of the books Sex drugs and Cocoa Puffs. This was written by Chuck Klosterman. And Ira, in his book, talks about how this book by Chuck Klosterman was a huge inspiration for him. Here is a fun little preview, though. We actually got Chuck Klosterman to surprise Ira on stage and it was a whole moment. Elena.
- [13:43]
Ira Madison III
Oh, yes.
- [13:44]
Luke Burbank
It was one that is not to be missed. So stick around more Livewire right after this special thanks to our sponsor, Up Up Books, a Portland bookshop specializing in diverse authors, local writers, and independent presses. They're located across from Revolution hall in the Buckman neighborhood and they offer a space for book clubs, workshops and events. Check out their website and grab a book@upupbooks.com welcome back to LiveWire from PRX. We are at the Patricia Reeser center for the Arts right here in Beaverton, Oregon. We are talking to Ira Madison III about his new book, Pure Innocent Fun. I'm wondering about your evolution as a pop culture enjoyer and that a lot of the fun around it is deciding what is good and what is bad and celebrating the stuff that we like and kind of crapping on the stuff that we don't like. But then also you're talking about things like Coldplay and Liz Fair and lots of other things where, like, I learned this phrase a while ago, like, don't yuck anyone's yum. How do you, like, have opinions about pop culture without just being kind of, like dismissive of something that, like, somebody else likes, you know? I mean, how do you hold those two things?
- [15:24]
Chuck Klosterman
Well, I feel like I do that every week. So.
- [15:28]
Luke Burbank
Is that just a hazard of the game?
- [15:30]
Chuck Klosterman
Yeah, you know, I think that there is, first of all, I wouldn't have, you know, this book if I didn't have opinions like that, you know, And I think that I've always enjoyed someone like, say, Roger Ebert, you know, when you rewatch old episodes of Ebert and Roper, I feel like he was a critic who came to movies, you know, he met them where they're at. You know, I think you look at the intent of something, that's how you can love a Scorsese film. And then, you know, I was just watching the traitors backstage before I came out. You know, it's like you, there are different levels of what, what something is intended for, you know, And I think a lot there can be pretentious people, you know, who will put a PTA film, you know, up against a Paul Thomas Anderson. Yeah, Paul Thomas Anderson, you know, like one of his films up against. I don't Know, Taylor Sheridan. You know, I think Yellowstone guy. Yeah. You know, I think Yellowstone is doing something very, completely different than what a PTA film is doing. But you can judge them both on not just their merits, but what their intended for.
- [16:36]
Luke Burbank
If you want to lose an afternoon, just get on YouTube and look up Roger Ebert and Gene Siskel recording promos for the show while actively hating each other. It is wild. Somebody just uploaded the raw tape. I mean, it's that there was no love lost between those dudes, at least on that day they were shooting. That's how I relax. Is watching old clips of Cisco and Ebert mad at each other.
- [17:00]
Chuck Klosterman
You know, I think that. That you watch that show, though, because it's still a television show, you know, and like, the crux of a TV show is drama is conflict. And you. It's fun to have people agree on things, you know, it's fun to agree with your friends. But if you're sitting there and watching someone actually discuss something, you want a little push and pull in the conversation.
- [17:21]
Luke Burbank
There is this new docu series out on Netflix about the Jerry Springer Show.
- [17:26]
Chuck Klosterman
Yeah.
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Luke Burbank
And you write about the Jerry Springer show in this book. And you mentioned I just got done watching the thing on Netflix. And you write something in the book that I hadn't really considered, which you were saying it was some of the first representation of queerness that you actually saw, like, growing up in Milwaukee. Talk about that.
- [17:42]
Chuck Klosterman
Well, I think that all of those shows were essentially, you know, they were supposed to be, quote unquote, like freak shows. You know, they would parade crazy people out who, you know, either lived in, like, New York or San Francisco, or they were just sort of like on the fringes of society in smaller towns, and they were sort of, you know, like a sideshow there. But then when you get older and you move out into the world and, you know, leave home, you realize that these are real people who sort of you can interact with every day and become friends with.
- [18:14]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. How old were you when you started to identify that you were gay?
- [18:20]
Chuck Klosterman
I don't know. When did that Calvin Klein ad come out? Like the mid-90s? Yeah, the mid-90s, probably. Yeah.
- [18:32]
Luke Burbank
You unlocked a memory for me from this book that I had totally forgotten about. How great the VHS tape cover was for Disney movies as opposed to, like, regular VHS tapes, which would be just a cardboard little sleeve. But I think you describe in the book that the Disney ones were like, in a pillow. There was something very tactile about them, that particular era of Disney films. I was wondering if you could kind of read from the book here. You kind of go through a really critical time in the Disney movie universe of when they really just released a series of hits. Would you mind reading a little bit from that?
- [19:16]
Chuck Klosterman
The Little Mermaid was released in theaters on November 17, 1989 and it's the first film I have any recollection of seeing in theaters. Most likely I saw the film at the shuttered since 2012 Northtown Cinemas. Northtown was on the outskirts of Menominee Falls, Milwaukee district for rich white people that I mostly remember for the Kohl's we shopped at for back to school clothes. Aside from my predestined queerness thanks to Ariel being my first cinematic heroine, the Little Mermaid was also the beginning of what's been termed the quote, Disney Renaissance. If one can point to an era that specifically led to the creation of Disney adults, grown adults who spend their money on trips to Disney World instead of on drugs and alcohol, it is definitely the Disney Renaissance, which is formally considered to have taken place from November 17, 1989 with the release of the Little Mermaid to June 18, 1999, the release of Tarzan. Unfortunately for the vastly underrated and comedic masterpiece the Emperor's New Groove, released in December 2000, it was considered a box office failure and not Renaissance worthy. However, it did produce a great two season Disney Channel spinoff series, the Emperor's New School. I've watched it while stoned in the past year and it's still funny. Nostalgia isn't always bad. This decade long renaissance produced 10 films and garnered Disney a series of accolades. The Little Mermaid was the first animated Disney film to get an Academy award nomination since 1977's the Rescuers under the Sea won composer Alan Menken and lyricist Howard Ashman the Oscar for Best Original Song. Menken and Ashman, it should be said, are also the team behind Little Shop of Horrors, one of my favorite musicals and certainly the best musical in existence not written by Stephen Sondheim. They reunited for Beauty and the Beast, which won Disney two Oscars. It's that Ashman died eight months before the release of Beauty and the Beast Beast from AIDS complications, but his posthumous Oscar, accepted by his partner Bill Loch, was Presented by Shirley MacLaine and Liza Minnelli, which just feels like gay history. During their speech, they even shouted out Barbra Streisand as their favorite director and that they wanted to make a film with her. But unless I missed a part in Streisand's Jonathan Franzen length memoir My Name Is Barbara, the movie never came to fruition, and that feels like a hate crime. Aladdin, which features some songs written by Ashburn before his death that were ultimately finished by lyricist Tim Rice, won for best original Score and best original song for A Whole New World. Hans Zimmer, who played Coachella the same year as Lady Gaga, this is just an important thing to know, I think, won his first Oscar writing the score for the Lion King. Can youn Feel the Love Tonight by Elton John. And Tim Rice won best Original song. Pocahontas, a truly messy film that rewrites racist colonial history, but is also the only whitewashing I will defend with my life. Besides the first two albums in Gwen Stefani's solo career, won Menken his final pair of Oscars, which he shares with lyricist Stephen Schwartz. The Hunchback of Notre Dame, which is better than you remember, and I know the only things people remember from it are the song Topsy Turvy and learning the word Sanctuary was nominated for best Original Musical or comedy score. Hercules is a film I adore, but I also need to acknowledge that people are mostly just trying to seem cool when they claim it's the best animated Disney film. It only has three songs. Anyone actually remembers one of those songs. Go the Distance was nominated for best original song. Mulan was nominated for best Original Musical or comedy score. Iconic film, iconic Christina Aguilera song attached to it. Tarzan closed out Disney's renaissance with an Oscar win for Phil Collins yous'll Beat in My Heart for Best Original Song. I actually don't think I've ever seen this film, but I love Phil Collins and men in Loincloths.
- [23:19]
Luke Burbank
Ira Madison iii, reading from his new book. This book is a meditation on important pop culture and pop culture that was important to you also kind of your life growing up. And you write about something that I feel like I could really identify with in the sense that I don't know how seriously you were trying to date this person in college, this woman, but if there was even a scintilla of a chance of something happening, it was over for you when she did not laugh once during the watching of the movie Zoolander.
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Chuck Klosterman
That is true.
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Luke Burbank
And I, like, I have broken up with people for things more petty than that around pop culture because you sort of feel like if we don't both think that Zoolander is funny, how can we have a life together? Right? Like, is that the kind of thing for you now in your, you know, current version of your dating life and relationship life, where you've got to be aligned with People on pop culture, or at least the pop culture matters, to really vibe with them.
- [24:24]
Chuck Klosterman
Well, I mean, I think that was like, a little extreme. I was in college. But no, I think you sort of do have to align on pop culture in a sense. You know, you can't be wanting to get Beyonce tickets, you know, when someone is constantly telling you how much they hate her. So it's things like that. I think that you sort of have to align on culture, the sort of, you know, the way you sort of want to align on politics with people.
- [24:47]
Luke Burbank
We're talking to Ira Madison III here on Livewire. We're coming to you from the Reaser center for the Arts in Beaverton. Kirkus Review has called Aira a worthy successor to his idol, Chuck Klosterman, which got us thinking. Chuck Klosterman once made the mistake of giving us his cell phone number. And we saved it and then we used it to call him and ask him if he would swing by the show. And he said yes. So please welcome Chuck Klosterman to Livewire.
- [25:13]
Chuck Klosterman
Wait, really?
- [25:14]
Luke Burbank
Oh.
- [25:18]
Chuck Klosterman
That'S a lot. Hi. Thank you.
- [25:30]
Luke Burbank
Wow.
- [25:31]
Chuck Klosterman
Okay, now I'm really glad I didn't miss that flight. I almost did.
- [25:37]
Luke Burbank
Chuck, Ira. Ira, Chuck.
- [25:39]
Ricky Lindholm
Yeah. Great to meet you.
- [25:40]
Chuck Klosterman
Great to meet you. Yeah.
- [25:42]
Luke Burbank
Chuck, thank you for being here. It's really nice to see you again. Sure. So this is the thing. We know that Ira is very familiar with the book Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs. Because, Ira, in your new book, you mentioned that you used to read it, like, on a weekly basis when you were working at Borders and Barnes and Noble, just kind of for something to do. We also feel, Chuck, that you are very familiar with the work because you wrote it. When was the last time that you looked at your book Sex and Drugs and Cocoa Puffs?
- [26:13]
Ricky Lindholm
When I wrote it.
- [26:16]
Luke Burbank
This was something Elena, who is also a published author, brought up in soundcheck, and something, Ira, that you will probably relate to more and more, which is we, the non book writers of the world, assume you have the book memorized because you wrote it. And yet the authors often have the least grasp on what's in the book.
- [26:33]
Ricky Lindholm
Yeah, I mean, you know, when you're writing it, you read it over and over again and it seems worse every time. And then you go out and promote it, and after a while you're just kind of lying about it saying just like. Or like actually disagreeing with things you wrote because it seems more interesting or whatever. And then, I mean, I literally have not. I don't know, I'D be terrified to read that book again, to be honest. Because, I mean, I was a different person when I wrote that. I mean, I was 29. I wrote that book in basically six weeks.
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Ira Madison III
Wow.
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Ricky Lindholm
Like, I mean, I have no. You understand me at 29 better than I do. I guarantee you. I guarantee that you do.
- [27:17]
Luke Burbank
Well, this is how this little exercise is gonna go. We want to find out who is actually the expert on sex, drugs and Cocoa Puffs. Ira Madison, who based his entire career on it. The guy who wrote it in a sort of fugue state. Chuck Klosterman, 29 year old. So we're going to ask you a question about the book. We're going to see who might be able to answer it first and then we may expand on the topic a little bit, which could be a chance for you, Chuck, if you want to re litigate any of this stuff. Many years later, Elena's going to keep score. Oh, and the top prize for this, the winner will receive a slightly used signed first edition of the book. Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs related question. Chuck, could you sign this gently used first edition copy of Sex the Cocoa Puffs at some point, please? All right, here we go. These are all, these are directly from the book. The author states that he would sooner have his kids deal crystal meth than do what we do. Have a hint for all of these.
- [28:31]
Ricky Lindholm
I mean, do you know, I don't know. Oh, have my kid play soccer, which she does and she's point cluster me. She's really good too, but so I got to kind of live with that. It is one, because I talk about the Khmer Rouge and stuff like this. Comparing it specifically soccer moms, which technically means I'm calling my wife Pol Pot.
- [28:55]
Luke Burbank
You didn't know this at the time?
- [28:57]
Ricky Lindholm
I did not know. Of course not. But that's kind of uncouth.
- [29:03]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. The follow up question which you've sort of answered, Chuck, was now that you do have children who are at the age when they often do play soccer and stuff, have you actually changed your opinion now, like on the sport or on the whole thing or you still think that you'd rather they were dealing crystal meth?
- [29:22]
Ricky Lindholm
Well, you know, with the economy as it is, I mean. Yeah, you know. Yes, the answer is yes. There are some things about soccer I do like.
- [29:33]
Luke Burbank
Yeah.
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Ricky Lindholm
I like the fact that if it starts at 5:00, it's over at 7.
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Luke Burbank
Yeah.
- [29:38]
Ricky Lindholm
Whereas like college football's not like that. My last nine hours, you know, baseball. But yeah. So, you know, it is very Strange. People remember these books and, you know, it was popular or whatever, as people are still asking me about this stuff and I always got to sort of be the person I was 20 some years ago.
- [29:57]
Luke Burbank
I want to clarify. This was your idea, Chuck.
- [29:59]
Ricky Lindholm
Oh, it was, it was.
- [30:02]
Luke Burbank
We asked you if you would come on the show and you were incredible, incredibly gracious to do so. And you said we should just do a quiz to see if Ira knows more about the book or I do.
- [30:11]
Ira Madison III
This is directly from Faith and Ira. I think he's gonna come back with the next question.
- [30:14]
Chuck Klosterman
I do a lot of drugs.
- [30:16]
Luke Burbank
Yes. All right, here's question number two. According to the book, what is the first step in the indoctrination of future hipsters? I'll give you a hint. They teach us that, quote, anything desirable is supposed to be exclusionary. This is. It's also one of the parts of the title of the book.
- [30:40]
Chuck Klosterman
Oh, I'll give you a hint.
- [30:43]
Luke Burbank
It's not sex or drugs or the word and cereal commercials. Cereal commercials. We're giving it to you. Ira Madison III ties it up one to one.
- [30:54]
Chuck Klosterman
Oh, about the Lucky Charms, the Trix guy.
- [30:59]
Ricky Lindholm
Trix Rabbit.
- [30:59]
Chuck Klosterman
Yeah, the Trix Rabbit. They hoard their cereal.
- [31:04]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. It seemed like there were all the cereal commercials of my growing up years were about children trying to hide cereal from cartoon characters.
- [31:13]
Ricky Lindholm
Yeah, like the Cocoa Puff spirit. At one point, they stick him into a rocket and shoot him into outer space so he cannot access the cereal. Yeah, like, it's like a real kind of over the top, you know, I think there was a criminal who was trying to steal the cookie trail, and his name was Cookie Jasper, if I recall. I mean, have your fact checkers look into that. But I'm pretty sure it was Cookie Jasper.
- [31:42]
Luke Burbank
I mean. All right, question number three. It's tied one to one. This is a hot game. The author writes in the book Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs that he realizes it might seem crazy for a 30 year old to exist without this item. But he also states that he hopes he'll never own one, because the simple truth is I don't need that kind of luxury in my life. What is the item that he was writing about? It's an, I think for most of us, a pretty important part of our daily cycle.
- [32:15]
Chuck Klosterman
A bed.
- [32:16]
Luke Burbank
A bed. Did you not have a bed at age 30?
- [32:21]
Ricky Lindholm
I had a nest.
- [32:24]
Luke Burbank
Please explain.
- [32:28]
Ricky Lindholm
I was like, you know, I didn't have a lot of money. I was living in an efficiency apartment. And I just thought, what kind of gratuitous rich person would have a wooden bed frame. So I just took apart a foam, like, in between a couch and a bed. It's a futon.
- [32:50]
Luke Burbank
Yeah.
- [32:50]
Ricky Lindholm
So this is a futon without a frame. And I took that apart, and then I just. I bought some beanbags and a bunch of pillows, and I think, like a stuffed Gumby I had won at a carnival, and I just slept on that. And then that's how it was for. Until I moved to New York.
- [33:13]
Luke Burbank
Wow.
- [33:14]
Chuck Klosterman
Why not just use the futon?
- [33:17]
Ricky Lindholm
Well, that would have been the reasonable move. Right.
- [33:21]
Luke Burbank
You know, I see the student has become the master.
- [33:29]
Ricky Lindholm
I think probably because, you know, that was an era in my life where everything I looked at, I think I thought to myself, how could I make this interesting to someone else? Which is sort of how it is when you're in your 20s and you're a writer. Sort of. It's like everything that you do somehow seems to be serving the idea that you're gonna write about it later. And then that's a huge mistake. It ruined my life. But, like, you know, but you gotta go through that. It's one of those things you just gotta do, you know, it's like, I don't know, you can't learn to plow by reading a book or whatever they.
- [34:05]
Luke Burbank
Say, you know, I think this is. Ira, you and I were talking earlier about how you're about to launch on your first book tour. And I think it's so interesting to kind of see somebody at the beginning of their career and at the very end of their career on the same stage. It's just. It's a beautiful kind of circle of life. Chuck, would you mind lifting Ira up Lion King style? If you wouldn't mind. Well, Elena, you were keeping score. Who's getting the book? Who's getting the signed copy? For sure. Ira Madison iii. Madison wins the book the third. Yeah.
- [34:38]
Chuck Klosterman
Stop the Steal.
- [34:41]
Luke Burbank
Ira Madison III and Chuck Klosterman right here on Livewire. Thank you both so much. That was cultural critic, writer, and podcaster Ira Madison iii, along with his hero, Chuck Klosterman, right here on Livewire. Ira's new book is pure innocent fun, and it is out now. Hey, special thanks this episode of Livewire to Ed and Ann Galen of Portland, Oregon. Ed and Anne are part of the Livewire member community and are generously supporting us with a donation each month. And we are very grateful for that support because it is how we are able to keep doing Livewire. So shout out to Ed and Anne for keeping Livewire going. This is Livewire I'm Luke Burbank. That's Elena Passarello, of course. Each week on the show, we like to ask our listeners a question. We try to make this as interactive an environment as possible. Now, inspired by Ira Madison III's book, who we just heard from, what are we asking the audience this week?
- [35:54]
Ira Madison III
We want them to tell us what was the first TV show, movie, book, or song that made you feel understood?
- [36:02]
Luke Burbank
Okay. Right. I mean, that is such a critical moment. For me, it was Encyclopedia Brown, because I was always solving mysteries with very low stakes.
- [36:09]
Ira Madison III
And you were a genius, and I.
- [36:11]
Luke Burbank
Was a genius, and I worked out of the back of a drugstore. So I just. There was a lot of parallels in my life.
- [36:16]
Ira Madison III
Yeah, totally. I think for me, it was the babysitter's club, because I was delusional that I was a good babysitter, which was never true.
- [36:23]
Luke Burbank
So here's what we did. We collected up some answers to that question from actual audience members at a live taping of the show. This was at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. Listen to some of those responses. This is Charles answering the question. You know, living in the Pacific Northwest of this age, of my certain age, it was the movie singles. It was cheesy, but we got all the inside jokes. All right, I know that I said Encyclopedia Brown. That was kind of a joke for me. Legit singles. I was a junior in high school.
- [36:59]
Ira Madison III
Oh, perfect age.
- [37:00]
Luke Burbank
I was, like, very into that music scene. And to have the place where I lived represented as, like, the coolest, most artsy, most everything seen in a Cameron Crow movie, that was. I wanted to, like, crawl inside that film and, like, live. Be like Matt. Matt Dillon in that movie.
- [37:18]
Ira Madison III
And that is one of the best movie soundtracks in history. Just hands down, it might have been.
- [37:25]
Luke Burbank
My best ever purchase from the Columbia House Music Club, because for a penny, I wore that thing out. And it's still to this day, it's still very listenable.
- [37:35]
Ira Madison III
Yeah, that Alice in Chains song would, I think, is, like, the best grunge song ever.
- [37:39]
Luke Burbank
Would recommend. Thanks, Charles. Great answer. All right, here's an answer from Hollywood. The question was, what's the first TV show, movie or book or song that made you feel understood? Here's what Holly said.
- [37:49]
Elena Passarello
I think it was the first time I saw the movie Fried Green Tomatoes, because I always got the sense that Idgy the Idgy Threadgood the bee charmer was queer. And as a young queer person, it was like, oh, they're short. And so I was like, oh, this is so great. And it was fun to see it in a big movie like that.
- [38:14]
Luke Burbank
Wow. That is such a, just like kind of simple but important message about representation.
- [38:18]
Ira Madison III
Yeah.
- [38:19]
Elena Passarello
Yeah.
- [38:19]
Ira Madison III
You want to see your stories told on film, especially by cool people like Mary Stuart Masterson.
- [38:24]
Luke Burbank
I was a little young for Fried Green Tomatoes, but what I noticed growing up in Seattle was I just started seeing bumper stickers on cars that said tawanda. Yes, with an exclamation point. And I didn't know what that was a reference to, but I said, there's something going on here.
- [38:38]
Ira Madison III
That's.
- [38:39]
Elena Passarello
That's.
- [38:39]
Ira Madison III
I think where a lot of people saw themselves in that movie is they. They would be someone who would, like Kathy Bates, just drive into a car.
- [38:45]
Luke Burbank
I'm older and I have better insurance.
- [38:47]
Ira Madison III
Yeah.
- [38:47]
Luke Burbank
Something to that effect. All right, here's one from Whitney. Whitney, answering the question of something in pop culture that really resonated with them at an early age.
- [38:56]
Elena Passarello
For me, it was when I read Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins. I just. It was when I realized that literature could be playful, I guess. So for me, that was huge because I'm like a playful person. And I was like, it doesn't always have to be so serious, you know?
- [39:13]
Ira Madison III
That is such a good point about Tom Robbins. Like, if you read him at the right time, when you're like, knee deep in the scarlet letter, you know, and he has so much velocity when he writes and he's having so much fun and he's painting these amazing pictures like he really does. That's. That's a perfect assessment of Tom Robbins, who we just lost.
- [39:33]
Luke Burbank
Yeah. RIP. Hey, thank you so much to the brave folks who answered our audience question backstage at the Alberta Rose Theater. This right here. This is Livewire from prx. Our musical guest this week is an Emmy nominated actress, comedian, and musician well known as half of the comedy duo Garfunkel and Oates. If you're not familiar, they're the duo that brought you such bangers as Pregnant Women are Smug Kardashians, and this party just took a turn for the Douche. We can say that. I guess we could say that. As well as a bunch of other hilarious songs that maybe we can't say on public radio. And now she is set to release her first solo comedy album. It's titled no Worries if Not. This is a chat with Ricky Lindholm, who joined us at the Patricia Research center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon. Take a listen.
- [40:21]
Elena Passarello
Hi. How's it going?
- [40:24]
Luke Burbank
Ricky, it is so nice to see you again. Welcome to the show.
- [40:26]
Elena Passarello
Thank you too.
- [40:28]
Luke Burbank
I have listened to the new album. I love it. The first track is Don't Google Mommy.
- [40:33]
Elena Passarello
Yep.
- [40:35]
Luke Burbank
And I'm wondering if, first of all, what a thing for an entire generation of parents to now have to like, were you having a specific thought about something that is on the Internet related to you that you do not want your young child to Google at some point?
- [40:50]
Elena Passarello
Well, do you know, it's interesting. Well, now I have, I have a two year old now. But it was actually when I was trying to adopt. I was trying to adopt for a really long time and there was like open adoption in the US and you have to make this pamphlet about yourself. And I was like. Because there's like all this section about job and stuff. And I was like, this is not like, this isn't like Scream mom material. So that's when it actually for the first time occurred to me that it might be strange for my child to google me. I literally had not thought of it until that moment.
- [41:19]
Luke Burbank
I'm like, oh, I have a lot of friends who've been through similar applications and it's obviously a huge thing and you really want to put your best foot forward. Did you write like person who brought you such songs as Pregnant Women are Smug?
- [41:32]
Elena Passarello
No.
- [41:32]
Luke Burbank
Like, what did you put down as you put entertainer, actor? What did you put as your career?
- [41:37]
Elena Passarello
I think I put entertainer. I made it just kind of vague. Writer, entertainer. I think I wrote and made it and I just had a picture of me on Big Bang Theory. I was like, that's it. That's nothing else.
- [41:46]
Luke Burbank
Stop looking very wholesome.
- [41:47]
Elena Passarello
That's all it is. Yeah.
- [41:50]
Luke Burbank
Are there things of yours out there that as your child gets older, like maybe when they're a teenager or whatever that. I don't mean anything risque per se, but just like, I don't know, songs you've written, languages, things you did to be funny in your 20s. Is there anything on the Internet that you're worried about them googling?
- [42:06]
Elena Passarello
There is zero things that I regret or am actually embarrassed of. I just am like, wait, you're older. Like, you know we have certain songs from Carfunka Leno. Sure, yeah. If anyone's familiar with the loophole, they'll know what we're talking about.
- [42:21]
Ira Madison III
That wouldn't be a two year old's introduction.
- [42:24]
Elena Passarello
Not yet. Wait till he's like, you know, six or something. No, just kidding.
- [42:28]
Luke Burbank
You got married a couple of years ago. Congratulations.
- [42:31]
Elena Passarello
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
- [42:32]
Luke Burbank
And it sounds like because you were in the process of going through a surrogate pregnancy that you had a really unique kind of early dating life with your husband.
- [42:42]
Elena Passarello
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Luke Burbank
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Elena Passarello
We started dating, I think a week before my son was born. So. Yeah. But then it worked out. So, you know, I mean, I thought it would just be like a single mom with a boyfriend. Like, I wasn't like, come be the dad. Like, you know, no one would do that. I wouldn't do that anyway. And then it just kind of kept evolving.
- [43:04]
Luke Burbank
I love the title of the album, no Worries if not, it just sort of like so perfectly like, ask for something. But also, if in any way me being a human or having needs is a bother to you, also ignore it.
- [43:15]
Elena Passarello
Totally. I was debating between two titles, either no Worries if not and kumquat, just because I like that word. And everyone was very confused about kumquat. And the songs are just like, they're just not for everybody. They're for kind of middle aged people and they're like, dirty and vulnerable. And if you don't hear a song about asking someone for sperm, fine, I get it. That's totally fine. Or about a surrogate or about this. It's about, like, it's all in there. So it's not for everyone. It's a niche record.
- [43:47]
Luke Burbank
You're listening to Livewire from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. Okay, we've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we're gonna play a little station location identification examination and hear a song from Ricky Lindholm off her latest album, no Worries if not. I've heard it, folks. It's catchy, it's hilarious. It's censored so that we don't get in trouble for playing it, but you don't want to miss it, so stick around. More Livewire in just a moment. Welcome back to Livewire from prx. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello. All right, it is that time once again in the show where we play a little station location identification examination. This is where our esteemed announcer and geography knower Elena Passarello is quizzed about a place in the country where Livewire is on the radio. She's got to try to guess the place that I am talking about. All right, Elena, are you ready?
- [44:50]
Chuck Klosterman
Yes.
- [44:51]
Luke Burbank
Okay. It's the largest, most populated city in the state that it is located in, and it borders the edge of another state where it has a twin city. We're not talking about the twin cities. Obviously, but it's. It's one of those cities that's got almost a mirror image on the other.
- [45:09]
Ira Madison III
Side with the same name.
- [45:12]
Luke Burbank
No, different names. Okay. It sits on the western bank of a river valley, home to one of the most fertile farming areas in the world. So you're thinking Midwest?
- [45:21]
Ira Madison III
Yeah. Thinking glacier. Like plains. Plains, yes.
- [45:25]
Luke Burbank
You're in the right spot. This might help a little bit. The Weather Channel voted this place to have the toughest weather in America, including Alaska. It beat out Juneau, Alaska, because it sees more dramatic weather overall, including its infamous cold and blizzards going on. There's some spring flooding. They got thunderstorms. There's intense summer heat.
- [45:46]
Ira Madison III
Ah, okay.
- [45:46]
Luke Burbank
Are you getting any closer? Ah, yeah. How about this? Chuck Klosterman wrote about this place.
- [45:53]
Ira Madison III
Fargo.
- [45:53]
Luke Burbank
Yes, Fargo. That's right, Fargo.
- [45:55]
Ira Madison III
Rock City.
- [45:56]
Luke Burbank
Yeah, you're totally right. Fargo Rock A Heavy Metal Odyssey is the Klosterman book. So shout out to folks listening on KDSU FM in Fargo. Rock City, North Dakota, this is Livewire. Okay, before we get to the Ricky Lindholm song, which you really wanna stick around for, it's a view of the Sound of Music plotline that I had never personally considered. I wanna give you a little preview of what we're doing on the show next week. We are gonna talk to a writer who has appeared, you know, everywhere that people listening to this show care about. Talking the New York Times, talking the New Yorker. I'm talking this American Life. His name is Shalom Aislander. He wrote the TV show Happy Ish. He wrote a memoir with an incredibly memorable name, Foreskin's Lament. He's got a newish book out. It's called Feh, which actually probes some topics that I have spent time thinking about. Myself, body shame, and sea monkeys. You know, the usual. Also, we're gonna hear from the award winning poet, Simon Shea. He is a former professional Muay Thai fighter turned poet. Publishers Weekly calls his book an extraordinary investigation of a painful past. And then we're gonna hear some music from the singer songwriter Kara Jackson, which we recorded back at the Pickathon Festival. So make sure you tune in for next week's show. All right, as far as this week's show go, let's jump back into our interview with the actress, comedian and musician Ricky Lindholm at the Patricia Reaser center for the Arts in Beaverton, Oregon. So many people know your work from Garfunkel and Oates. I just thought Garfunk Lumps was just like a Funny couple of names to throw together. But it's basically, what would it be like if a band was made up of the two second bananas from much more popular bands?
- [47:44]
Elena Passarello
Do you want to hear the saddest thing? We didn't realize. I don't really watch the Simpsons. And we didn't realize until, like, I don't know, eight years into our band that the Simpsons had had that joke, like, five years before. It was Garfunkel Oates, in that order. Garfunkel, Oates and Messina or something. There was a third name. And we were like, oh, no. And like. I was like, that sucks. So we thought it was our joke. It was not our joke, but that's okay.
- [48:11]
Luke Burbank
Well, let's hear a song. What song are we gonna hear?
- [48:14]
Elena Passarello
Well, this one is. It's a breakup anthem on behalf of the Baroness Schrader from the Sound of Music. So this is true. So I was watching Sound of Music as a kid, and I thought it was this love story between this nun and this old guy. And then I was watching it as an adult, and I was enraged. Cause I was like, this man fully has a girlfriend, the Baroness Raider. And he just tosses her aside for this woman who can't even keep her job as a nun. And I'm like. And so. And she's very like, okay, I understand. Goodbye. And I'm like, I would not feel that way. And so I wrote an anthem for her. So that's what I'm gonna play you.
- [48:49]
Luke Burbank
All right, let's hear it. This is Ricky Lindholm on Livewire. And what is the name of the song?
- [49:01]
Elena Passarello
So Long Farewell. Because titles are not copyrightable. So, thank you, Sound of Music. All right, here we go. So I meet this naval captain named. No, I'm not sure why he says it that way. It's like calling yourself Benjamin. But I'm in love, so I think it's okay. Then get this. Gayorg tells me he has seven kids. And by the way, they're all homeschooled. I say, fine, even though they treat me like crap for no reason, I'll raise them as if they're mine. Then get this. He says I have to move to Salzburg. And even though it's a dump, I say, sure, without blinking. We should have bequeathed it to Bavaria in the Treaty of Munich.
- [49:45]
Ira Madison III
What?
- [49:45]
Elena Passarello
I'm just saying what everyone's thinking. But then he gets romantic and says, you're the one that saved me. And for a moment, I think I got my happy ending. Maybe. But not so fast. Cause in walks his nanny who's also a nun. And guess how old she is? 21. And at the party he dances with her and not me. And even though he denies it it's plain to see these hills are alive with the sound of bull. I'm not gonna take any more of it. So long, farewell Alvida Sant Adu so long, farewell your seven kids, George and you. Maria's so vacant and pleasant and young. All she wants to do is spin around and sing. And look at you falling for that raindrops on roses bit. Newsflash, no one's favorite thing is string. Oh, and I heard you got married right away. Not waiting to be over your widow like you said. I bet you just love that she's a virgin so she won't know how bad you are in bed. Also, Maria cuts her own hair. Not well. And if you think kids look cute wearing curtains, you're wrong. And at parties, people want to talk and drink, not stop and watch them all sing a really long song. And also, you can't afford that house on a military salary. But good luck selling in the middle of a war zone. And your daughter is dating a Nazi. If you weren't such a self absorbed douche, you would have known. And I heard you left on foot after sleeping in a crypt. You know what that's called? Karma, bitch. So long, farewell albeito Saint adieu to you and you and you and you and you and you. So long, farewell your nanny nun, George, and you. Thank you.
- [51:44]
Ira Madison III
Thank you.
- [51:46]
Luke Burbank
That's Ricky Lindholm right here on Livewire. That was Ricky Lindholm performing the song so Long Farewell from her solo comedy album, no Worries if not. All right, that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Livewire. A huge thanks to our guests Ira Madison III and Ricky Lindholm, and also Chuck Klosterman for being a total mensch and showing up as a surprise guest on the show.
- [52:17]
Ira Madison III
Laura Haddon is our our executive producer, Heather D. Michel is our executive director, and our producer and editor is Melanie Savchenko. Our technical director is Eben Hoffer. Hazik bin Ahmad Farid is our assistant editor, and our house sound is by Dee Neil Blake. Ashley park is our production fellow.
- [52:32]
Luke Burbank
Valentine Keck is operations manager, Andrea Castro Martinez is our marketing associate, and Ezra Veenstra runs our front of house. Our house band is Sam Pinkerton, Ethan Foxton, Ben Gilmore, Al Alves, and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This episode was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Hazik bin Ahmad Farid.
- [52:54]
Ira Madison III
Additional funding provided by the James F. And Marian L. Miller Foundation. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank members Ed and Ann Galen of Portland, Oregon. Thank you.
- [53:06]
Luke Burbank
For more information about the show or how you can listen to our podcast, head ON over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank. For Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Hey there Livewire listeners, It's Luke. You know, every year we embark on a journey to gather your thoughts and your ideas on how we can improve Livewire radio. We love hearing about your favorite interviews and the types of guests you want to hear on future shows and how or where you listen to our show, and lots of other stuff, too. It really helps us make the show better. Your feedback makes a meaningful impact on future Livewire programming. Could you do me a solid? Could you take six minutes? And by the way, we timed it at six minutes to take our annual listener survey. You can find it@livewireradio.org survey and thanks.
- [54:04]
Ricky Lindholm
From PRX.