Jeff Hiller, Mohanad Elshieky, and Edna Vázquez

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank

Episode: Jeff Hiller, Mohanad Elshieky, and Edna Vázquez
Date: January 9, 2026
Host: Luke Burbank
Announcer: Elena Passarello
Guests: Jeff Hiller, Mohanad Elshieky, Edna Vázquez (with Mariachi Tradicion)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Live Wire blends heartfelt conversations, sharp comedy, and stirring music. Luke Burbank is joined by:

• Jeff Hiller, Emmy-winning actor and author, who discusses his new memoir and his relationship with faith, fame, and empathy.
• Mohanad Elshieky, stand-up comedian, who shares stories from the road and his experience of being coaxed into hiking.
• Edna Vázquez, musician and torchbearer for Mexican tradition, who performs with Oregon high school students from Mariachi Tradicion and delves into the meaning behind mariachi music.

If you’re in need of both a laugh and a cry, this episode delivers poignant moments and plenty of humor, all set to a backdrop of lively music and engaging storytelling.

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Highlights & Key Segments

Good News of the Week

[04:12–12:09]

Chimpanzee Trends in Zambia

• Elena Passarello: Shares a heartwarming, quirky story of cultural trends in a Zambian chimpanzee community.
  • In 2010, a chimp named Julie started wearing grass behind her ear, quickly sparking a fashion trend.
  • The trend continued for years—even after Julie passed away—until fading, only to recently come back with a twist: chimps are now accessorizing with grass and sticks behind their ears or, humorously, “in their butt.”
  • “Chimps do spend a lot of time looking at each other’s butts, which reminded me of, like, you know, we put heart pockets on the back of our jeans.” – Elena Passarello [07:45]

The Lone Beaver’s Return to England

• Luke Burbank: Tells of the return of wild beavers to Norfolk, England after 500 years, likely caused by a “beaver bombing”—the unofficial, often illegal, release of beavers to repopulate areas.
  • The lone beaver discovered is thriving and reshaping the ecosystem.
  • Touches on broader ecological themes about how beavers change landscapes for the better.
  • “This beaver has the best life of all time…just living the beaver dream. And now they’re trying to figure out how it got there.” – Luke Burbank [09:24]

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Featured Guest: Jeff Hiller

[12:09–33:04]

On Writing and Reading Celebrity Memoirs

• Hiller’s memoir, Actress of a Certain Age: My 20 Year Trail to Overnight Success, is the springboard for conversation.
• Notes his deep love for the genre, stating he’s read a vast number of celebrity memoirs.
  • On what draws him to celebrity memoirs:
    “I love hearing other people’s stories…about people who led lives that were interesting.” – Jeff Hiller [13:15]
  • Calls out lighter, less substantial memoirs (e.g., Vanna White’s), sharing an odd “tip” from it about oral hygiene. “Don’t waste your time with a water pick. Just let the water from the shower run over your teeth.” – Vanna White, as recounted by Jeff Hiller [14:08]

Vulnerability & Authenticity in Storytelling

• Hiller emphasizes a desire to be authentic and avoid glossing over difficult realities.
  • A typo in the finalized version of his memoir—printing “Actress of a Satane Age”—becomes a humorous symbol of imperfection: “I’m glad I didn’t try and come off as someone who has it all together.” – Jeff Hiller [16:54]

Childhood, Faith, and Empathy

• Discusses growing up as a tall, “girly” Lutheran in San Antonio, Texas.
  • Reflects deeply on how being tall allowed him to feel accepted in certain circles despite feeling different.
  • Shows emotion recalling how church was a rare safe space in his youth: “It was something that made me not be gay, and so I was really proud of it. But then when I came out, all the gay guys were like, wait, you’re big but you’re girly? No, thank you.” – Jeff Hiller [19:28]
• Describes being bullied and how empathy for others—even bullies—is powerful, albeit radical in today’s world:
  • “I just think empathy is good...it’s not easy to say, I want to feel empathy for people who are mean to me. But I think it’s powerful.” – Jeff Hiller [21:13]
• Recounts his supportive, “compassionate” church upbringing and disappointment at discovering hypocrisy in broader religious institutions.

"Somebody Somewhere": Art, Community, and Representation

• Hiller discusses his role as Joel on HBO's Somebody Somewhere, which led to his Emmy win.
  • The show centers on chosen family, acceptance, and small-town life—reflecting church-like community: “In my mind, church is about community…That’s what they were feeling in that moment, and it was holy, it was divine. And that’s why [Joel] said, ‘This is church.’” – Jeff Hiller [25:38]
• Notes the show’s understated realism—the “sweaty middle aged people eating mayonnaise” of TV:
  • “We’re not sexy. We’re not wearing fabulous clothes. We’re like, sweaty middle-aged people eating mayonnaise…” – Jeff Hiller [30:16]
  • Despite not being a mainstream “hit,” the show profoundly resonates with its fans.
• On late-career “success”:
  • Hiller says, contrary to Hollywood memoir tropes, he never truly intended to quit acting—he’d have continued even without a breakthrough.
  • Shares self-deprecating humor regarding his Emmy win: “For 25 years I’ve been saying to the world, like, I’m an actor, and the world’s been saying, how about computers?” – Jeff Hiller [32:18]

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Comedy Set: Mohanad Elshieky

[35:01–43:54]

• Opens with travel tales: pokes fun at getting stuck in an elevator and the absurdity of emergency response expectations.
  • “It only takes one minute of you being stuck inside for you to be like, I don’t even remember what outside looks like.” – Mohanad Elshieky [35:54]
• Dives into his love of nature documentaries, with a sharp dig at ocean-life specials:
  • “Every creature there looks like a first draft…God made you with his non-dominant hand.” – Mohanad Elshieky [36:30]
• Shares marriage stories: being continuously “tricked” by his wife into going hiking.
  • Reluctant to hike (“flat surface enthusiast”); wife is an outdoors lover.
  • “Instead of not going on hikes anymore, my wife would just not tell me if we’re about to go on a hike. She would just surprise me with elevation.” – Mohanad Elshieky [41:21]
• Pokes fun at Australians as perpetual travelers.
• Closes with a story about police “banning” hiking in Guatemala, much to his delight.

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Musical Performance: Edna Vázquez and Mariachi Tradicion

[48:41–55:30]

Introduction & Context

• Edna Vázquez shares the stage with Forest Grove High School's Mariachi Tradicion, led by Leslie Nunez.
  • Oregon now officially recognizes mariachi as a musical competition category, with the Tradicion ensemble winning state championships twice.
• Discusses mariachi’s origins, musical evolution, and cultural roots:
  • Mariachi arose in Jalisco (“cradle of mariachi”), with trumpets being a relatively late addition.
  • The word “mariachi” has a complex, multicultural derivation.

Song: "El Árbol"

• Vázquez contextualizes the song: it’s a family song, invoking memories and togetherness, inspired by her father’s emotional response:
  • “This song talks about family and gathering together. And I think we all have that in all communities all over the world. That’s what we have in common. That’s our humanity—besides music.” – Edna Vázquez [52:02]
• Performance with Mariachi Tradicion—a beautiful, emotional highlight of the episode.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I love hearing other people’s stories…that’s the less cynical version of an answer.” – Jeff Hiller [13:15]
• “Empathy is good...And in a weird way right now, in our world, that is radical to say.” – Jeff Hiller [20:36]
• “We’re not sexy. We’re not wearing fabulous clothes. We’re like, sweaty middle-aged people eating mayonnaise, you know.” – Jeff Hiller [30:16]
• “Every creature [in the ocean] looks like a first draft.” – Mohanad Elshieky [36:30]
• “Just surprise me with elevation.” – Mohanad Elshieky [41:21]
• “That’s our humanity—besides music.” – Edna Vázquez [52:02]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Good News of the Week:
  [04:12] Chimpanzees and fashion
  [08:07] Return of England's beaver

• Jeff Hiller Interview:
  [12:09] Introduction & memoirs
  [18:49] Childhood, faith, empathy
  [23:50] Chosen family, Somebody Somewhere
  [27:45] Career break & Emmy win

• Mohanad Elshieky Comedy:
  [35:01] Stand-up set
  [36:30] Ocean creatures
  [41:21] Hiking with wife

• Edna Vázquez & Mariachi Tradicion:
  [48:41] Interview & mariachi history
  [52:07] "El Árbol" performance

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Episode Tone

The episode balances warmth and vulnerability (especially in Jeff Hiller’s segments), wry observational comedy (Mohanad Elshieky), and cultural pride and musicality (Edna Vázquez). Humor often has a self-deprecating edge. Empathy, community, and the value of authenticity are recurring themes.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This is an episode about embracing your quirks, the power of empathy, and the joy of unexpected connections—whether in celebrity memoirs, underappreciated animals’ comebacks, marriage misadventures, or mariachi music’s intergenerational legacy. It offers tender moments that may make you cry, sharp jokes that will make you laugh, and music that tugs at your heartstrings.

Transcript

[Luke Burbank]

Hey there. Welcome to Livewire. I'm your host, Luke Burbank. All right, today on the show, we are gonna talk to Emmy award winning actor Jeff Hiller from the HBO show Somebody Somewhere. Jeff is gonna tell us about his deep and abiding love for the celebrity memoir and also the unfortunate typo that made its way onto the COVID of his celebrity memoir. Also, just a heads up, Jeff says that he always cries when he's on public radio, but like, in a good way. Speaking of things that are good, we've got one of our favorite comedians here as well, Mohanad El Shaki on how his wife keeps tricking him into hiking. Then we've got some music from Edna Vasquez and a group of Oregon high schoolers playing mariachi, which had us in our feelings, as they say, when they performed. Look, if you need a laugh or a cry this week, we've got you covered here on Livewire. It all gets started right after this. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and on the new season of Heavyweight.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

And so I pointed the gun at.

[Jeff Hiller]

Him and said, this isn't a joke.

[Luke Burbank]

A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old and a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago.

[Jeff Hiller]

How can 101-year-old woman fall in love again?

[Luke Burbank]

Listen to Heavyweight. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Elena Passarello]

Actor Jeff Hiller.

[Jeff Hiller]

People tell me like, oh, I don't know if I want to watch it. It's going to make me cry or whatever. It's, it's kind of a hard sell. We're like sweaty middle aged people eating mayonnaise, you know.

[Elena Passarello]

Stand up comedian Mohannad El Shakey.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

No more documentaries about the bottom of the ocean. Every creature there looks like a first draft.

[Elena Passarello]

With music from Edna Vasquez and our fabulous house band. I'm your announcer, Elena Passarello. And now the host of Livewire, Luke Burbank.

[Luke Burbank]

Thank you, Elena Passarello. We've got a phenomenal show for you this week. First, though, of course, we got to kick things off the way we always like to with the best news we heard all week. Here's the basic idea. The news can be pretty overwhelming, pretty sad. A lot of the time there is good news happening in the world. You, you just have to look very, very hard for it. And we have and we found some. Elena, what's the best news you heard all week?

[Elena Passarello]

Oh, Burbank, I found it. I found it. The best news of the week happened in Zambia at the Chim Funchi Wildlife Orphanage.

[Luke Burbank]

I already feel like I want to cry.

[Elena Passarello]

Well, I don't know if this makes you cry. It will be a very interesting clue into your personality. Burbank. So, so there's a vibrant chimp community at this wildlife orphanage. It has its own social structure. It's been there for decades. So there are generations and cliques and groups. There's even at one point back in 2010, there was a style maven. Her name was Julie. Julie was the it chimp. And you know, scientists and animal behaviorists are watching the chimps at these, at this orphanage. So there's a teaching aspect to the refuge. Julie in 2010 started putting grass behind her ear for no apparent biological reason. But then all of her chimp pals started putting grass behind their ears too. And then, like, that's Exactly.

[Luke Burbank]

Like middle school.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, it was.

[Luke Burbank]

There was like a kid shows up one day just doing something.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes.

[Luke Burbank]

Kind of weird. And then if they're cool, everyone starts doing that.

[Elena Passarello]

It's on Thursdays. We wear pink. Yeah. 100%. And everyone sort of paid attention to this because it was such a very obvious, just completely, completely social activity with no biological purpose. But it kept up, actually, for three years, even after Julie, who not just was a style maven, she was a style maven who was somewhat elderly. She passed away and they kept doing it, but then it faded out, as most trends do. Fast forward to now and you know how, like, we were just talking about this backstage, actually, how, like, your trends from high school come back. Like, Y2K is very big now. Or like, I hear rugby shirts are coming back. Or like, remember Billy Crystal from When Harry Met Sally?

[Luke Burbank]

Who can forget? When you find the sweater you want to be with for the rest of your life, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible.

[Elena Passarello]

When Harry Met sweater.

[Luke Burbank]

Yes.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, totally. That is happening in Zambia at this wildlife refuge, there is a totally different group of chimps that's kind of run by this male trendsetter named Juma. And they have brought back the grass accessory. But two things are different. One, they've done a little bit of a flair by. You could do sticks or grass.

[Luke Burbank]

Okay.

[Elena Passarello]

Two, you don't just have to put it behind your ear. You could also accessorize with grass and sticks by putting it in your butt.

[Luke Burbank]

Kids these days.

[Elena Passarello]

Are you gonna cry?

[Luke Burbank]

I see why that was an odd response from me before I had actually heard the story.

[Elena Passarello]

So there was an article about this in the journal Behavior that came out not long ago. And one of the things that. When they interviewed the people who worked at the refuge about, like, why maybe this trend sort of moved south, so to speak, they said, well, you know, chimps do spend a lot of time looking at each other's butts.

[Luke Burbank]

Wow.

[Elena Passarello]

Which reminded me of, like, you know, we put heart pockets on the back of our jeans. Right.

[Luke Burbank]

Sure. Yeah. They're just accessorizing.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

The best news that I hear is also about an animal. Sounds like I was trying to move on extra quickly there.

[Elena Passarello]

It does, it does.

[Luke Burbank]

And that was because I was. No. Now I feel like the animal that's in my best news story is pretty vanilla.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

Oh, good.

[Luke Burbank]

Compared to the chimps and what they're getting up to. This story comes from the Guardian over in Norfolk in England, where beavers have been. They haven't had any Wild beavers living there for like 500 years. Because I see what you're trying to do, Elena, and I don't like it. I don't agree with it. They hunted all of these animals back in the day to make the hats. I mean, you know, like Astoria, Oregon. Right. It was like the first permanent settlement, I think, west of the Rockies at least of people that were coming to this land later on. And it was so John Jacob Astor could like kill all of the beavers in the west and make hats out.

[Elena Passarello]

Of them for the fur trade. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

So that was also happening in England. And so they haven't seen any wild beavers in this area for 500 years. And then something started happening in this one part of the country on the river Wensum at Pensthorpe. It's in this nature reserve near somewhere. It's called apparently Fakenham. They started seeing. This is what the guy who's in charge of the place, he's the reserve's manager, his name is Richard Spawage. He said he first had an inkling that there might be a beaver living there after a volunteer noticed many trees that had been chewed down into a small pointed stick like stump.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah.

[Luke Burbank]

That's a sort of a dead giveaway, right?

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah. If you've watched any Looney Tune, you know that that's exactly what that is.

[Luke Burbank]

But because there hadn't been any beavers living there for so long, they thought maybe it was kids trying to play a prank. Boy, I mean that would, that would really be the prank if you were a kid in England going out and doing this. So they set up these like wildlife cams and they just found this one beaver chilling out there in the. This beaver has the best life of all time because this is the perfect environment for a beaver. This beaver is the only one for miles and miles and miles and has like all the trees that it can chew on, all of the land that it can build its dam on or do whatever it is, just like living the beaver dream. And now they're trying to figure out how it got there because like this is miles and miles and miles away from anything. And this beaver is by itself. They think it might be the result of something called a beaver bombing. You can't laugh at that one. That's. That's actually allowed. Which is something that people have been doing, I guess, where like people just illegally are releasing or without getting the proper clearance beavers into the wild to try to repopulate them. Yeah.

[Elena Passarello]

And they make big changes really Fast, too. Like, you don't. It doesn't take a lot of beavers to change the landscape entirely.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah, they slow down the water. And a lot of what's gone wrong in places like the west and California is because the rivers are just moving very rapidly because they're not being impeded by the beaver dams. Then you don't get that kind of shallow water spreading out anyway. They're very happy that this beaver is there, even though they don't know how it got there. It did remind me of Operation geronimo from the 1940s, which you may know about. When we dropped beavers from airplanes into the wilds of Idaho. Many beavers died. No. Anyway, this lone beaver just kicking it. This is the best news I heard all week. Let's bring our guest out. He's an actor and comedian who's appeared on a slew of TV shows. 30 Rock, Law & Order, American Horror Story, you name it. The thing is, though, as he writes in his wonderful memoir, Actress of a certain age, my 20 year trial to over my 20 year trail to overnight success. Most of those TV appearances were brief and not that lucrative and he even toyed with maybe giving up acting. Then in his mid-40s, he was cast as Joel on the HBO show Somebody Somewhere. And things really sort of changed, including his Emmy win this year for best Supporting actor of the comedy series. We can't believe he's here with us, but he really is. Please welcome Jeff Hiller to.

[Jeff Hiller]

Livewire. You know, when you said 20 year old trial to overnight success, it.

[Luke Burbank]

Was. You can read that word either way. And it still works, right. For the title of the book. You are uniquely qualified to write a celebrity memoir because you may have read more celebrity memoirs than like any other living.

[Jeff Hiller]

Person. Oh, probably not more than any other living person, but I'm up there. Yeah, I read a lot of them.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. What is it about that particular format? Like each chapter in the book, you start by referencing a celebrity memoir from someone else. What is it about that format that you like so.

[Jeff Hiller]

Much? Well, I love hearing other people's stories. That's the less cynical version of an answer. I love hearing about people who led lives that were interesting. And usually if you have a celebrity memoir, it is, although sometimes not so.

[Luke Burbank]

Much. Yeah. Do you feel comfortable naming any, let's say, Mrs. From the celebrity memoir genre as Alex Trebek.

[Jeff Hiller]

Was? I got a gotcha question. Well, Vanna White has one that's.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

Kind of a little.

[Jeff Hiller]

Thin. I think, to be fair, I think it was more of like A lifestyle kind of a manual than it was a.

[Luke Burbank]

Memoir.

[Jeff Hiller]

Right. But I do remember her saying, don't waste your time with a water pick. Just let the water from the shower run over your teeth. And I was like.

[Luke Burbank]

What? I can imagine that in, like, the Buddy Epson.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Memoir.

[Luke Burbank]

Yeah. Not the Vanna White memoir.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. I don't know. But here's the thing. I haven't used a water pick.

[Luke Burbank]

Since. Okay. So I'm wondering, then, when you set out to write your memoir, Actress of a Certain Age, what did your 10,000 hours. And by the way, that was just Barbra Streisand's.

[Elena Passarello]

Book.

[Jeff Hiller]

Right. That was 48 hours and 15 minutes. And I did listen to it. Now, about halfway through, I cranked her up to 1.5, and she sounded just like she was in what's Up.

[Luke Burbank]

Doc. What did you, like, set out to do with your book that you sort of using all of the information that you'd accumulated from all the celebrity memoirs you'd.

[Jeff Hiller]

Read? Well, I didn't want to write sort of the boring stuff. Like, a lot of celebrities think we really care how their grandparents met, and we don't. You know, it's always like, they were on the boat.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

And. Or.

[Jeff Hiller]

Whatever. And I'm like, okay, but come on. And I was like. And I got to talk about how I knew famous people before I was famous, and. But the big thing I wanted to do was be authentic and be vulnerable and not. I don't. I didn't want to do the, like, TikTok thing of, like, this is the life I want to present to you. I want it to be like, look, it tain't perfect. And then when the book came out, it had a typo on the COVID It.

[Luke Burbank]

Did. I was so sad that I got a normal.

[Jeff Hiller]

One. Well, you got the galley. Yeah, the galley was fine, by the way. But then the books come for the unveiling or whatever, and it's as actress of a satane age, Like some vegan replacement meat. And I was like, well, I'm glad I didn't try and come off as someone who has it all.

[Luke Burbank]

Together. Right. You're listening to Livewire from prx. We're talking to Jeff Hiller, Emmy award winner Jeff Hiller, published author, phenomenal actor, and the person behind the book, actress of a Certain Age. We're going to talk to Jeff. Much more in just a moment. Stay with us. More Livewire coming your.

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[Luke Burbank]

Com. Welcome back to LIVEWIRE from prx. We're here along with the Portland Book Festival this week at the Alberta Rose Theater in Portland, Oregon. I'm Luke Burbank here with Elena Passarello, and we are talking to actor and comedian Jeff Hiller about his book Actress of a Certain Age, as well as the HBO show Somebody Somewhere. Let's jump into the part of the celebrity memoir that you say is the worst part, your childhood. You say that as the celebrity memoir goes, that's the part you're least interested in. But I do think your growing up Lutheran in San Antonio, Texas, was somewhat formative. From you. When did you find first have the sense that you were.

[Jeff Hiller]

Tall? I know you asked that as a joke, but there's actually an interesting answer. You know, I'm a little girly, and it was the one thing that I had growing up where I could, oh, God, every time I go on npr, I cry. And then y' all use it in the promos.

[Luke Burbank]

Anyway. Alaina, we got another.

[Jeff Hiller]

One. There are onions under here. There are onions. It was something that made me not be gay, and so I was really proud of it. But then when I came out, all the gay guys were like, wait, you're big but you're girly? No, thank you. And then it was.

[Luke Burbank]

Bad. You were, I feel like in the book, you're actually, you write about being bullied a lot. And you're also, I think you're fairly. I don't want to say forgiving, but you have this part of the book where you're talking about someone who bullied you named Rat Face, and by the end of it, you.

[Jeff Hiller]

Are. That was the name I just assigned.

[Luke Burbank]

Him. But by the end of it, you're like feeling empathy for Rat Face. How do you make sense if you, if you do at all of kind of what that part of your life was like and the ways that it sort of impacted.

[Jeff Hiller]

You? I just think empathy is.

[Luke Burbank]

Good. Yeah, great. We got another pro empathy crowd.

[Jeff Hiller]

Here at the public radio table sporadically going to say, I believe in compassion. But in a weird way right now, in our world, that is Radical to.

[Luke Burbank]

Say. Yeah.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. And I, and it's not easy to say, I want to feel empathy for people who are mean to me. But I think it's.

[Luke Burbank]

Powerful.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. And I think it's important and I try to practice.

[Luke Burbank]

That. And that would be something that you could have picked up during your Lutheran upbringing, the idea of, you know, loving those who hate you. Yeah. Harder when you're a bullied teenager than maybe an adult in retrospect. But like talk about the church and how big of a deal that was for you. It was a place, I think you say in the book that the mean kids had to at least pretend to be nice to you in the church environment. So that was kind of an.

[Jeff Hiller]

Upgrade. It was, yeah. And the adults were nice to me too. Like at school a lot of times the adults weren't. But also the church once again in our world today, this sort of the headline of churches are being monopolized by these churches who want to be cruel and punish. And the church that I grew up in was, I don't know if progressive is the right word, but compassionate is. And it was where you went for social justice issues. If you had food insecurity, you went to the church. If you weren't going to be able to pay your rent that month, the church would help you. If you needed a coat, if you needed child care, all of those things were provided. And that is the church that I grew up in. And so it took me a long time to realize the church that's been co opted by a lot of people today at least, was even out there because in my mind the church was really a social justice organization. And so when I found out that because I was gay, I could have been a pastor, but you had to be celibate and a straight pastor didn't. I thought that was rude. And it was really the first time when I was like, oh wait, there's hypocrisy in the church. Or like there are, which I know I'm coming from a place of privilege. I know that a lot of people grew up in churches that were not like that at all. And I completely understand that. But that is the church that I grew up in. And I have so many friends who are fighting for poor people, for bipoc people, for queer people. And they are all, you know, clergy in the church. And they're not people saying you need to pick one gender as if, like, who cares? You know what I mean? Like they're not doing that. And that's the church that I belong To. And.

[Luke Burbank]

Love. Yeah. And also. And I want to talk about the TV show Somebody somewhere as well, but there's. You write in the book, I think about. There's a moment in that show where. And for people that don't know, it's, first of all, like, maybe the best television show ever.

[Elena Passarello]

Made. Yeah. Where you.

[Luke Burbank]

Been? But it involves. It involves this, as we say, Chosen Family, I guess, in Manhattan, Kansas. And there's this moment where you guys are on a party bus together and you're just enjoying each other's company and enjoying the love and acceptance of the group. And your character, like, says, this is my church. And you improvised that.

[Jeff Hiller]

Line. Well, I did. I didn't know I could say that. But then Bridget was saying it in interviews, and I was like, well, I'm just gonna run with this. I did, because, I mean, also, like, I said it. And then the showrunners were like, yeah, say that again. But what I loved about it was, you know, my character was having problems with the church because he was feeling a lot of guilt for something he had done in the church, and he was missing his community at church, which there are so many people, queer folks, who found a community in a faith situation. And so, in my mind, church is about community. It's so much about community and acceptance and love. And that's what they were feeling in that moment. And it was the last season of. Or it was the last episode of season one, and it was really like their friendship had finally coalesced. And so for him, it was holy, it was divine. And that's why he said, this is.

[Luke Burbank]

Church. Yeah. We're talking to Jeff Hiller, the author of Actress of a Certain Age, and also the character Joel on Somebody Somewhere. So in the book, you talk a lot about your time in, particularly in New York, where you were working some, but not as much as you would have liked, and not enough that you felt like really making it. It was really happening. And then things really changed in a major way when Bridget Everett, the kind of, like, legendary cabaret performer Joe's Pub, that whole scene, like, says, hey, we're shooting this pilot for this thing, somebody somewhere, would you want to try out for it? And I guess knowing you a little bit and knowing you through the book and knowing the character of Joel, it's hard for me to see that they weren't writing that character for you. But, like, the crowd agrees for once with me, it's a rare moment, a rare moment of comedy between me and the audience. But, like. But also, like, my understanding is you knew, you and Bridget knew each other, but you weren't like besties. You weren't like, living.

[Jeff Hiller]

Together.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

No.

[Luke Burbank]

How. How could this character have not been written with you in.

[Jeff Hiller]

Mind? I don't know. It is really weird, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, like, with, with Bridget, I was sort of intimidated by her. I certainly wasn't, like, hanging out with her. And, like, I would get tongue tied and stuff around her because she was like a really big deal in downtown Manhattan. And when I read it, I was like, oh, my God, I can play this. Because I once took this class with the head of ABC casting and Marcy Phillips, she's the best. And she said, you know, if you want to be a series regular, you're going to wait for a character who's really like you. That's when you'll really get one. Because they want you to play this for seven to eight years. And I was like, oh, no, they don't write characters like me. And then they did, and it was shocking. And it felt, you know, that also felt divine. That felt like church.

[Luke Burbank]

Too. It's weird, like, reading the book, like, I know how the story ends. I know that you get the role of Joel and you're really good at it and you win an Emmy. It just. You say in the book that if you wouldn't have gotten this job of Joel, you would have kept trying. But it just seemed like it was so important that you got this job. Like, I was nervous for you. Were you super nervous in the.

[Jeff Hiller]

Audition? No, not in the audition. Because I'm just really good at.

[Luke Burbank]

Auditioning. Yeah.

[Jeff Hiller]

And I mean, I think, like, I didn't really know that this would be the thing until I was standing on stage holding an Emmy, you know what I'm saying? And I don't know that this will be the thing again. You know, it's not like I have another hit lined up that's going to be like, I've got this long lasting.

[Luke Burbank]

Career. Like, well, first of all, wait for the livewire.

[Jeff Hiller]

Bump.

[Luke Burbank]

Oh, I've edited your cell phone is gonna start.

[Jeff Hiller]

Smoking. I mean, the point is, is that it's so much better to have a little success. And it's so wonderful to not have to worry about how I'm going to pay my bills in addition to the acting roles that I make. But I made the choice to, to be an artist. And even if I had had no success, I would still be being an.

[Luke Burbank]

Artist. Yeah. And that's something that's in the book because he could have told this convenient story of like, it's more dramatic. Right. If you're like. And I had just told my agent, I know, don't send me out any more.

[Jeff Hiller]

Calls. And you would not believe how many celebrity memoirs start that.

[Luke Burbank]

Way.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. And so I wanted to kind of fool you and then be like, you know, I wasn't gonna quit. Cause I had already put in 25 years. I already didn't have a washer and dryer, And it's who I.

[Luke Burbank]

Am. So you're saying that even after somebody somewhere was renewed, I mean, you did three seasons. I mean, were you getting recognized more? Did it start to feel like, oh, this, this dream of being, you know, a series regular on a, on a hit show is. Is happening or is that not. I assume that was your experience, but it sounds like it didn't go exactly that way for.

[Jeff Hiller]

You. Yeah, I mean, I think. I don't know that we are a hit show. I think that the people who watch it, love it. And I, across the board, which I am so grateful for. But also it's like, people tell me like, oh, I don't know if I want to watch it, it's gonna make me cry or whatever. It's kind of a hard sell. It's not. We're not sexy. We're not wearing fabulous clothes. We're not in an alternate universe. We're like sweaty middle aged people eating mayonnaise, you know, and so you don't know, like the reason it does make you cry, but it makes you cry because it's recognizing your.

[Luke Burbank]

Humanity.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. Every time I meet with an executive, they're like, that show could never get made again. And I think, how horrible. That's a beautiful show. It should be.

[Luke Burbank]

Made.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. I think I'm tired because I keep getting weepy and I'm talking about a TV show. I don't.

[Luke Burbank]

Know. I. I'm. Listen, as a, as a fan of the show and an evangelist for it, I. I don't think you can overstate actually how really important in the world it is to a lot of people. Yeah, I.

[Elena Passarello]

Do. 90% of my crying over TV.

[Luke Burbank]

Shows.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes. Like, I thought that was how we were supposed to process our.

[Jeff Hiller]

Emotions. Oh.

[Luke Burbank]

Me? You watch like seaQuest a lot. That's weird. Okay, we keep mentioning it, but I did think that your Emmy speech was really phenomenal. And you got up on stage and I think you said something like, this was so gratifying. Or you said, I might cry. Because for 25 years I've been saying to the world, like, I'm an actor and the world's been saying, how about computers? Did you have a plan to say that.

[Jeff Hiller]

Line? Not that line. No. That one just came out of me and I felt it in that.

[Luke Burbank]

Moment.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. It felt like, you know, so shocking. Cause I don't know anyone who, I don't know the people who win the awards. So it's very odd to be like, I won an award. Like, this is okay. This story is so cheese ball. But let me just say it. I was on set, I'm playing a guest star on this funny new cheerleading show on.

[Luke Burbank]

NBC. Oh.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. The PA said to me, like, it's not every day we have an Emmy winner on our set. And I was like, oh, who's here? And she meant.

[Luke Burbank]

Me. That is how you blaze a 20 year trial to overnight success. Jeff Hiller, ladies and gentlemen. That was Jeff Hiller right here on Livewire. His book, actress of a certain age. My 20 year trail to overnight success is available right now and you can stream somebody somewhere on hbo. Max. Hey, special thanks this episode to Kevin Snyder of Chandler, Arizona, and Ann Leland of McLean, Virginia, who are part of the Livewire member community and are generously supporting our show with a donation each month. And boy, are we grateful for that support because it's the only way that we can do Livewire. This is a true story. The League of Extraordinary Listeners, as we call them, the folks who contribute to Livewire on a monthly basis are really the financial lifeblood of this thing. And we really want to thank Kevin and Ann for making Livewire possible. All right, our next guest is a New York based comedian so seen on Conan and the Late show with Stephen Colbert. You might have heard him recently on this American Life. He's also a contributing writer over at NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. And he's got a comedy special out, it's no need to Address Me, which is streaming on Apple TV and Amazon Prime. He is one of our very favorite stand comedians and we were so glad he could join us at Benaroya hall in Seattle recently. This is Mohamed El Shaki here on.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

Livewire. How we doing, everyone? Good to see you. So happy to be here in Seattle, man. I love this city. I do travel a lot for comedy and I was just recently in Ohio. What a state. I'm so happy. Everyone there gets to vote. No notes on that from me. I don't know if you've heard of Ohio. J.D. vance is from there. You know, Jerry Vance, the authority. I don't know what he's doing. I know some of you are like, might know him from the movie. No, I am a book guy. But I get back to New York, I was so tired from traveling. I get into my building, I get into the elevator, and I got stuck on the third floor. I don't know if you've been stuck inside an elevator before or not, but I swear to God, it only takes one minute of you being stuck inside for you to be like, I don't even remember what outside looks like. I have no memories outside of here. I don't remember my mom's face or the concept of smell. Everything is foreign to me right now. But it comes with one good perk, which is you finally get to press on the emergency thing. You know what I'm talking about? Every time you walk inside an elevator, you make eye contact, and you're like, one day I'll hear the voice. And I finally got to press on it, and a voice came from the other side and said, what can we help you with today? The elevator. What did you think this was about? Like, what kind of help? Oh, what is the standard deduction these days? Do you know? And then they're like, okay, what seems to be the issue? It's not elevating. It's not elevating. It's not. It's not doing the thing from the name, and if you can have it do that, that would be fantastic. And then they were like, okay, how long have you been stuck there for? And that's a good one. I was not prepared. It's my first time. Because, let me ask you this. Is one minute considered an emergency? I had no. I have no idea. I was like, elevator people are about to make fun of me in the back. My ego got in the way. I was like, I can't say one minute. They'd be like, oh, no, it's an emergency. Hi. You coward. You eggshell of a man. So instead of saying, one minute, I just replied, and I said, two weeks. And they're like, excuse me, what did you just say? Like, two weeks? Never gotten help faster in my life, I'll tell you that. When I'm not traveling for comedy, I watch a lot of tv, and most of the TV I watch. I do watch a lot of nature documentaries. I love watching nature documentaries. Hell, yeah. We have nature here in the audience. I do think, though, we can all agree, no more documentaries about the bottom of the ocean. What goes down there is none of my business. It's against God. Every creature there looks like a first draft. You've seen them. You've seen them? You look at them and you're like. I feel like God made you with his non dominant hand. What's going on here? What happened? I feel like every time God messes up, he's like, can you put that stuff down there? And can you promise no one's gonna see it? What do you mean? They're diving. They're not supposed to see it. I'll drown them, I swear to God. I swear to me. So leave the bottom of the ocean alone. Don't venture there. Don't go there unless you're a billionaire. Have fun, my friend. No, truly, I don't think they should stop you, King. Have at it. Oxygen is a myth created by the poor. You don't need that. I also, I also. I got married at the beginning of this year, which was. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. I love being married. I love my wife so much. She's fantastic. And we travel a lot together. And every time we travel, she has to go hiking. And I know you freaks love that too. And me, myself, I'm more of a flat surface enthusiast. I don't think the surface should go like this like that. No, don't do that to me. And she sees that surface going up, and she's like, I must go. And she goes up and I'm like, come down here. What are you doing? Why are we so close to the sky? You know, we're not birds. And last year we went to Guatemala and she booked a hike. So excited about it. The whole time she was hyping up the hike. And obviously I wanted to, you know, just be fun and just enjoy the hike. So I was like, I'm not gonna ask any questions about it. I'm just gonna go ahead the day of the hike, just enjoy it as is, and that's it. Should have asked questions. Should have asked questions. A good question to ask about every hike is, how long are we hiking for? That's a good one. That's a good thing to know. That's a good thing to know before you commit. It was eight hours. It was eight hours. There is nothing I want to do. Nine to five. Mm. Mm. Absolutely not. Why are we hiking for eight hours? When we started the hike, it was summer, and then we went through so many different seasons by the time we got up, I did not like that. And like, we really, like. I was struggling during the hike, you know, I was really struggling. And we did the hike within a group. So, like, we had other international, you know, tourists with US Travelers. And I don't know if you have traveled internationally recently or not. I did, you know, stuff with other tourists. Too many Australians. I'm sorry, what's going on with Australians? They're always on vacation. They're always off. What is going on in Australia? How is the Australian economy even surviving? Like, their biggest export in Australia is Australians. That's it. And there was this Australian guy in front of us, and he looked back at us, and he was like, hey, guys, you gotta catch up. Don't tell me to catch up. You know, you come from a country where the time zone is yesterday. How about you catch up? How about that, huh? Welcome to the present for the first time. How is it. After that hike happened, instead of not going on hikes anymore, my wife would just not tell me if we're about to go on a hike. She would just surprise me with elevation. We would be walking around the city. And I'm like, where are we going? And she's like, dinner. I'm like, I love dinner. Like, how did you know I love dinner? It was one of my favorite things, dinner. And as we're walking, I'm like, man, why is dinner so far? Why? Dinner used to be so close back in the day. What happened to dinner? What happened to us as a country? And then she'd be like, hey, do you wanna go up there really quick? And I'm like, what's up there? I don't think dinner is up there. I've never seen dinner that high up. Every dinner I've had so far has been sea level. So what's up there? And then she was like, let's just go and see. And I'm like, I feel like, you know, just. Just tell me. Just tell me what's up there. Just get. Get. Get it out. What's. What's up there? You looked it up. Tell me. And then she was like, okay, the biggest cross in the country is up that.

[Edna Vasquez]

Hill.

[Mohamed El Shaki]

And. And the thing about that is, I. I don't care. I don't care. I do not care. I am so sorry. Could not care less. Is Jesus on it? I don't think he is. He is too busy. And respectfully, even if he was, I still wouldn't go because my. My wife and I, we both grew up in Muslim families. Like, we like him, but, like, not hike like him. But then we went to the entrance anyway, and there were, like, two police officers standing there, and they're like, hey, guys, so sorry. It's almost sunset. You can't hike Right now, hiking is illegal. And I was like, maybe police officers need to do that mainly. And that's it. Maybe that's the main job. Because if police officers mainly did that, I'd be like, sure, fund the police. Give them more money, double the budget. We need more of them around the country. Just looking my wife in the eye and be like, hiking is illegal. Remember that. Yeah, okay. Anyway, my name is Moanad Al Shaykh. You guys been amazing. Thank you so much. I have a great good night. Thank.

[Luke Burbank]

You, Mohan and El Shakey, everyone. That was Mohamed El Shaki. You can check out his special no need to address me on Apple TV or Amazon prime or catch him in person in a town near you. More [e-mail] you're tuned in to Livewire. I'm Luke Burbank. We have to take a very quick break, but stay right where you are. When we return, we are going to hear some music from Edna Vasquez that you do not want to miss. More Livewire in a moment. Hey, it's your friend Luke reminding you, as if you didn't already know, that Livewire has sort of always been a show that does not really work out on paper. The math doesn't totally math, as they say. We're a weekly national broadcast. We do dozens of live events that are produced on a budget that is mostly held together by, like, duct tape and determination, I guess so. As you have probably already heard, things are really tough out here in public radio, especially for shows like Livewire. Government arts fundings have been slashed. There are a lot of stations that can no longer pay for the show, and ticket sales and sponsorships are down across the entire industry. These are all the ways that we've been able to kind of balance our books over the years, and those are going away. We have somehow survived for two decades basically by being too stubborn to quit. And we are not going to quit anytime soon. But we cannot do this alone. If you are hearing my voice right now, we need you to join us to make this radio show and this experience happen. Look, maybe you discovered a musician on Livewire that you weren't hearing on on, like, the top 40 radio. Maybe you found, like, your next favorite book or author. Maybe you ugly laughed alone in your car or ugly cried. No judgment. Look, if this show has been there for you in any way, shape or form, we are asking you right now to help us build a version of Livewire that can't be defunded, can't be canceled, and can't disappear. Because budgets get tight, which is what we're in danger of having happen now. Right now, if you can join our fully charged [e-mail] fullycharged, you will help us keep the lights on and keep the weird, wonderful conversations that Livewire is known for flowing. So thank you so much for stepping up and doing your part to keep Livewire going. We can't do this without you. Hey there. Welcome back to Livewire. Okay, before we get to this week's musical performance from Edna Vasquez, we got a little preview of what's going on on the show. Next week we are going to be talking to the award winning author and journalist Hector Tobar about what it means, at least to him to be Latino in this country. We're going to talk to Hector about his time growing up in LA and why he thinks actually Star wars might be the ultimate Latino film. This is part of the discourse right now that you're not hearing enough about the Star wars as it relates to immigration in this country. We're also gonna talk to comedian and filmmaker Jenna Friedman. She's got a memoir called Not Funny, which is a very misleading title because Jenna is in fact, very funny. Then we are gonna hear a Tom Waits cover from one of our favorite bands. It's the band Joseph. That's all coming up next week on the show. Meanwhile, on this week's Livewire, our musical guest was born in Jalisco, Mexico, which happens to be the birthplace of mariachi. More on that in a moment. Where she was immersed in traditional Mexican folk music from childhood. Now as a teenager, she relocated to Portland and since 2017, she's toured internationally as a special guest singer with Pink Martini. She's performed at Carnegie hall and Royal Albert hall, among any other places. Her debut traditional Mexican album, Te Esperaba is out and available right now. And as sort of the rare woman leading a traditionally male dominated mariachi ensemble, she's been inspiring folks to follow their musical dreams, including some students in something called Mariachi Tradicion, which is an ensemble of Forest Grove High School musicians from here in Oregon who joined Edna on stage at Revolution hall in Portland. Take a listen to this. Edna. Welcome back to.

[Edna Vasquez]

Livewire. Thank you.

[Luke Burbank]

Lou. So nice to see.

[Edna Vasquez]

You. Thanks for having.

[Luke Burbank]

Me. This is the most microphones we have ever had on stage. Edna, how did this whole thing come.

[Edna Vasquez]

Together? Well, thanks to Leslie Nunez, we have a treasure in our community. You know, she's being educating and, you know, having this mariachi program for such a long time. And if she's around. I'd like.

[Luke Burbank]

To.

[Edna Vasquez]

Absolutely. Leslie, can you. Yes, please. This is Leslie Nunez, director of the Forest Girls Mariachi.

[Luke Burbank]

Tradicion. Leslie, can I ask you a couple of questions about the program? So we were talking backstage. You said that there's about maybe six or so programs like this in the Oregon Public Schools of mariachi programs. Yeah, something like that. It's really growing. This is our second year now having a mariachi category in the state competition. Usually there's the orchestra, choir and band.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Competition. That.

[Luke Burbank]

Happens. And now we have an official category. And this group, they're state champions.

[Edna Vasquez]

Twice, two years in a.

[Luke Burbank]

Row. Nice. Well, thank you so much for bringing your students tonight. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Edna, I didn't know. I didn't realize that Jalisco is the birthplace of mariachi music. So did you. Did you. Was it just sort of in the air when you were growing up there as a young.

[Edna Vasquez]

Person? I was born in colima, which is 30 minutes from Jalisco, where I grew up. And, yes, I was introduced as, you know, the. How do you say, cuna? Cuna. Cuna del mariachi. Cradle of mariachi. And the mariachi was born without the.

[Luke Burbank]

Trumpets. I think of the trumpet sound as being so associated with the mariachi sound, but that was. That only came in midway.

[Edna Vasquez]

Through. Trumpets were added by a famous composer called Silvestre Vargas from Ciudad, which introduced to the mariach, which mariach comes from marriage in a French word. So the whole word is mixed up with Otomi, Native American language from that region in Nahuatl. And so that word mixed up creates mariachi. And that's how the mariachi ensemble was born and then brought to Mexico City like 250 years ago. And with the addition of the trumpets and gave it another.

[Luke Burbank]

Flavor. And now it's at Forest Grove High School, Forest Grove, Oregon, and here on Livewire. Can you tell us about the song we're gonna hear.

[Edna Vasquez]

Edna? Yes, we're gonna hear El Arbol, which is in my newest production. And El Arbol. I'm not the composer of this song, but I heard my dad singing this song and I noticed that he was crying. And so this song was very important to him because both of his parents are dead. And this song talks about family and gathering together. And I think we all have that in all communities all over the world. Right. That's what we have in common. That's our humanity besides.

[Luke Burbank]

Music. Yeah. Well, this is Edna Vazquez and Mariachi Torcion here on Livewire.

[Edna Vasquez]

Who. It. Samir. Mariachi Tradicion. Thank.

[Luke Burbank]

You. That was Edna Vazquez and Mariachi Tradicion recorded live at Revolution hall in Portland, Oregon, right here on Livewire. All right, that is going to do it for this week's episode of the show. A huge thanks to our guests Jeff Hiller, Mohamed El Shakey and Edna Vazquez and Mariachi Tradicion. Also, special thanks this week to Amanda Bullock and the Portland Book.

[Elena Passarello]

Festival. Laura Haddon is our executive producer, Heather D. Michel is our executive director, and our producer and editor is Melanie Savchenko. Eben Hoffer and Leona Kinderman are our technical directors, and Trey Hester is our assistant.

[Luke Burbank]

Editor. Our house sound is by Dee Neal Blake, and our house band is Ethan Fox Tucker, Al Alves, Sam Pinkerton and A. Walker Spring, who also composes our music. This show was mixed by Eben Hoffer and Trey.

[Elena Passarello]

Hester. Additional funding provided by the Oregon Arts Commission, a state agency funded by the state of Oregon and the National Endowment for the Arts. Livewire was created by Robin Tenenbaum and Kate Sokoloff. This week we'd like to thank member Kevin Snyder of Chandler, Arizona, and member Ann Leland of McLean.

[Edna Vasquez]

Virginia.

[Luke Burbank]

Woohoo. For more information about our show or how you can listen to our podcast, head ON over to livewireradio.org I'm Luke Burbank. For Elena Passarello and the whole Livewire crew. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week. Wouldn't it be amazing to have a piping hot episode of Livewire delivered right to your heart and ears each week? Well, guess what? That can happen when you subscribe to the Livewire podcast feed and you'll get the joy of surprising conversation every week. So go ahead and do it. It's super easy. You click on the button at end, the top of your podcast app, and bam, you are Livewire subscribed. And if you're still, you know, feeling the love, if you're enjoying the show, hey, maybe you could hook us up and leave us a quick review that'll help more people find out about Livewire. And thank you. From.