Open Book: Ann Powers

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank: Open Book Episode Featuring Ann Powers

Release Date: July 2, 2025
Host: Elena Passarello
Guest: Ann Powers, Esteemed Music Journalist

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Introduction to Ann Powers

In this episode of Live Wire with Luke Burbank, host Elena Passarello welcomes Ann Powers, a renowned music critic for NPR and author of several influential books on music and culture. Ann shares insights into her career, her passion for music journalism, and her extensive background in literary studies.

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Ann Powers' Early Life and Influences

Ann Powers reflects on her formative years in Seattle, highlighting the pivotal role of local libraries and mentors in shaping her love for reading and writing.

“I grew up here. I spent so much time at the Elliot Bay Bookshop and the Seattle Public Library…” (03:22)

She fondly recalls her favorite librarian, Zani Goldmanis, who not only guided her literary interests but also empowered her during her adolescence.

“She not only took me under her wing in terms of turning me on to what to read, but she also empowered me.” (03:56)

Formative Reading Experiences

Ann delves into the books that left a lasting impact on her as a young reader, including "Ghosts, Ghosts and More Ghosts" by Robert Arthur and "The Stranger" by Albert Camus.

“I somehow made my way to Camus' The Stranger when I was like 11.” (05:39)

These early literary explorations fostered her deep appreciation for complex narratives and themes.

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Current Reading Habits and Preferences

Ann discusses her current reading modalities, emphasizing a strategic approach to balancing fiction and non-fiction.

• Fiction: Prefers audiobooks, often listening while walking or cooking.
• Non-Fiction: Opts for physical books, taking extensive notes and using journal apps for future reference.
• Travel Reading: Utilizes a Kindle for light reading during flights.

“I tend to listen to audiobooks for fiction… and nonfiction I never listen to on an audiobook because pretty much every time I'm reading a nonfiction book, I'm taking notes.” (07:53)

She admires writers who blend memoir, cultural criticism, and reporting, citing Melissa Febos and Olivia Laing as her favorites.

“I love authors who are mixing kind of memoir, cultural criticism, a little bit of reporting, maybe, and beautiful writing.” (08:00)

Engaging with New Writers and the Writing Community

Ann emphasizes the importance of community among music writers and the role of the internet in fostering connections despite economic challenges in the writing field.

“The Internet has hurt so much in terms of writers being able to make a living, but it has been a real gift for us being aware of each other and connecting.” (09:05)

She highlights the Pop Conference, organized by her husband Eric Weisbart, as a key event for networking among writers.

“The Pop Conference… has been going for, I think, 23 years now.” (09:30)

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The Impact of Mentors and Influential Works

Ann shares how Griel Marcus, an early mentor, significantly influenced her career through consistent encouragement and recognition.

“I was able to receive a postcard occasionally from Griel… that made such a difference to me.” (12:04)

She credits "Mystery Train" by Rainer Crumb as the book that solidified her commitment to being a serious music writer.

“Mystery Train really is the book that convinced me that I could be a serious writer and a music writer at the same time.” (12:29)

Ann also praises contemporary writer Hanif Abdulraqib for his poetic and autobiographical approach to music criticism.

“Hanif… has shown how you can do that kind of work for a new generation.” (13:20)

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Thoughts on Writing Quality and Popular Culture

Ann discusses the misconception that writing about popular culture doesn’t require high literary standards. She advocates for excellence in prose, regardless of the subject matter.

“I feel like there's the bar is set lower that you're not necessarily expected to be an amazing writer at the level of the sentence if you're writing about a popular cultural subject.” (14:16)

She commends writers like Emily Nussbaum and Ira Madison III for their ability to blend intellectual rigor with engaging storytelling.

“Pure Innocent Fun is like talking to a super smart person whose every single cell in their body is pop culture.” (15:48)

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Controversial Opinions: Embracing "Trash" Literature

Ann shares her unapologetic love for "trash" literature, arguing that even the most ostensibly lowbrow genres can offer significant cultural value and enjoyment.

“Trash can be great. Read the trash. Why not? Some of it's gonna be horrible, but you're gonna find some gems.” (16:10)

She cites Jackie Suzanne’s novels, such as "Once Is Not Enough" and "Valley of the Dolls," as examples of "trashy" works that have left a lasting impact on culture and entertainment.

“Valley of the Dolls… Not only a great book, a great trashy book, a great trashy movie.” (16:42)

Ann recounts a personal anecdote from her childhood about reading "Once Is Not Enough" at her neighbor’s house, underscoring the profound influence of these works on her development.

“...I was sitting there reading it. And I remember the dad… he was like, does your mom know you're reading that?” (17:45)

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Conclusion and Final Reflections

Elena Passarello wraps up the conversation by highlighting Ann Powers' latest work, "Traveling on the Path of Joni Mitchell," and expressing gratitude for Ann’s contributions to music journalism and literary criticism.

“Thank you so much for talking about reading with me. I really have enjoyed talking to you so much.” (18:44)

Ann echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the joy and fulfillment derived from discussing literature and music.

“This was so fun.” (18:47)

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Final Notes

The episode concludes with acknowledgments of the production team and sponsors, ensuring listeners are aware of the support behind the insightful conversation.

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Notable Quotes:

• "I grew up here. I spent so much time at the Elliot Bay Bookshop and the Seattle Public Library…” — Ann Powers (03:22)
• “Trash can be great. Read the trash. Why not?” — Ann Powers (16:10)
• “Mystery Train really is the book that convinced me that I could be a serious writer and a music writer at the same time.” — Ann Powers (12:29)

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For more engaging conversations and literary insights, tune into future episodes of Live Wire with Luke Burbank.

Transcript

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[Elena Passarello]

Hi there. I'm writer Elena Passarello, and this is Open Book, a literary podcast from Livewire Radio, brought to you by Powell's Books, where we talk to writers about their reading habits. When I'm not having fun as Livewire's.

Announcer, writing is my job. I've written two nonfiction books and I'm currently mired in a third, emphasis on mired outside my own writing projects. I teach writing in an MFA program here in Oregon, so. So all of this is to say that books are, without exaggeration, my whole life. The other day I got some tests.

Run at the doctor's office, and it.

Turns out that my blood is 50% historical fiction. This week we're talking to one of the nation's most notable music journalists, Anne Powers.

Anne is probably best known as a music critic at npr. She's also written about pop music for the Los Angeles Times and the New.

York Times, among others.

In 2005, she co wrote the book Piece by Piece with Tori Amos, My.

High School Like Imaginary Best Friend, about the role of women in the music industry.

And in 2017, she published Good Love and Sex, Black and Body and Soul.

In American Music, which examines eroticism in American pop.

Her latest book is Traveling on the Path of Joni Mitchell, which maps the life and artistry of this legendary musician.

I'm going to be real with y' all. I was totally fangirling for, like 100% of this interview. I have read and admired Anne's work since I was in college.

She's just so insightful when she writes.

About the way music shapes us all and defines us all. And now that I know more about who Anne is as a reader, I'm an even bigger fan. And you will be too. Let's have a listen to Ann Powers here on Open Book.

Ann Powers, I am so excited to.

Have you on Open Book. Welcome, welcome.

[Ann Powers]

I'm just absolutely thrilled to be here. How fun. We're in Seattle, my favorite city, and we're talking books.

[Elena Passarello]

This is your town.

[Ann Powers]

Yes. I grew up here. I did. I grew up at Elliot Bay Bookshop. So, I mean, not literally. I did have a home, but I spent so much time there. And also Seattle Public Library basically did grow up in the Magnolia Public Library. Shout out to my favorite librarian, Zani Goldmanis. Actually, after I published my first book, I went back to that library and she was still working there. And I found her and I thanked her and I got a little weepy and I think she was looking at me like, who is this person? But, yeah.

[Elena Passarello]

Why was she such a memorable librarian in your past?

[Ann Powers]

Well, you know, I was a real misfit kid. I had skipped a grade and, you know, was definitely like the chubby, nerdy wiener dog kind of kid. That's a reference to a movie. But anyway, I was a bit of an outcast. And so I gravitated toward the library. Cause it was a block from my Catholic school where I went and I just lived there, you know. And she not only took me under her wing in terms of turning me on to what to read, but she also empowered me. I remember I gave a puppet show my never realized career in puppetry, but. Hello. Yeah, I staged a puppet show in which I made a three headed paper mache puppet for the figure of Cerberus, you know, in the story of Diameter. And Persephone was what the puppet show was all about. So anyway, thank you.

[Elena Passarello]

Very literary.

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, yeah. Even from the beginning, there I was.

[Elena Passarello]

Do you remember a book that she turned you onto when you were baby Ann?

[Ann Powers]

I definitely remember a couple of books that I read at that time. Three things. One, I can envision in my mind the layout of that library. And I know where the myth books were. I was very fixated, especially on Norse myths. Help me. And just living right there next to that shelf and reading them all. Also the scariest book I ever read, which was called Ghosts, Ghosts and More Ghosts. Oh, no. The author was Robert Arthur, very frightening book. And also then, precocious kid that I was, I somehow made my way to Camus the Stranger when I was like 11.

[Elena Passarello]

I remember this from your book.

[Ann Powers]

It's kind of a dark, dark childhood. But, you know, what can I say?

[Elena Passarello]

Well, after you go ghost, ghost, ghosts, ghost, ghost and more ghosts, the only next step is Camus.

[Ann Powers]

Oh my gosh. And there was this one story in that book, I think it was called the Rose Crystal Heart. And it was about this man who went to a fortune teller or something and she said, you are going to be killed when you hear a bell ring or something. And the whole story is how he's escaping all these things that could have killed him. And then in the end he hears a bell or something and he falls down a staircase. And for some reason he has a pendant on that is a rose crystal heart and it pierces him in the heart and he dies. And I was like, whoa, especially as a Catholic. And I'm like, really can't escape my fate. This is freaking me out.

[Elena Passarello]

So anyway, are you still a horror reader?

[Ann Powers]

I don't know. I definitely have read some of the classic gothic horror, you know, Wilkie Collins or, you know, is Wuthering Heights a horror book?

[Elena Passarello]

I guess, you know, I mean, I mean, I think sometimes when I'm in a certain like hotel or Airbnb and there's a certain kind of window, the horror movie that is Wuthering Heights sort of plays if it's a windy night. Well, what are your reading habits like now?

Like, what kind of modalities do you use?

Are you a page only audiobook?

[Ann Powers]

I'm really not page only. I'm very much a platform jumper, so. And I've kind of divided things up a bit. So I tend to listen to audiobooks for fiction. That's my pleasure. And I do that while walking often or cooking. And then nonfiction I never listen to on an audiobook because pretty much every time I'm reading a nonfiction book, I'm taking notes. All my books are littered with post its, you know, because just either I'm working on a new project or I may work on a project that might involve this book one day. So I also use a journal app to write down quotes and things and keep that for future reference. And then I do also have a Kindle, which I mostly take on planes. It's light, literally light reading. So the Kindle is just for travel.

[Elena Passarello]

Mostly when you are not reading for work. That's usually fiction and that's usually audio format.

[Ann Powers]

I Do have another kind of genre of book or style of book. I read more for pleasure, but then often I quote it in my work or whatever, which is kind of the hybrid form similar to my own work. You know, like an author like Melissa Fabos or Olivia Lange is one of my absolute favorites, you know, and those kinds of writers who are mixing kind of memoir, cultural criticism, a little bit of reporting, maybe, and beautiful writing. I love this essayist journey. Joanie Tevis. There's so many. Oh, look at Joanie. I love that you light up at her. I love that you light up at her name. That makes me so happy because I'm a huge fan of hers. Oh, she. I hope she's.

[Elena Passarello]

I'm gonna make her listen to this.

She's gonna love this.

Her book. She's a really unspoken or unsung hero of the American essay.

[Ann Powers]

Yes, she truly is. And she deserves much more acknowledgement.

[Elena Passarello]

You've been in this game for long enough that you probably have a full roster of writers that you know and that you work with. How do you keep tabs on the new writers? The new V?

What's that diet like?

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, it's a challenge for music writers specifically. And we are definitely a clan or I guess, Game of Thrones style, Many clans, you know. And when I lived in New York, of course, where so many writers live, it was really a social scene, and it still is a social scene. My husband, Eric Weisbart, has long organized this conference called the Pop Conference.

[Elena Passarello]

Oh, yeah.

[Ann Powers]

It was started here in Seattle, Washington, at the NOW Museum of Popular Culture. That's been going for, I think, 23 years now.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, I went to the one in 2007. Oh, wow. I had a panel on Iowa Hip hop.

[Ann Powers]

Oh, my gosh. Amazing.

[Elena Passarello]

No business doing.

[Ann Powers]

I love that.

[Elena Passarello]

And I remember Griel Marcus was sitting in front of me, and his wife was knitting.

[Ann Powers]

Yes, Jenny, she always knit. It was so exciting. It was at the crime conference. I know. That's so cool.

[Elena Passarello]

It was like, my first time around.

[Ann Powers]

Music writers, you know, we have. Whether it's academics, scholars, or journalists, we have ways of kind of keeping in touch with each other. But it's also. Actually, the Internet has helped so much. Strange to say, because the Internet has hurt so much in terms of writers being able to make a living. But as far as us being aware of each other and being able to connect with each other, it's been a real gift. And, you know, I have my places I go every week, whether it's pitchfork or hearing things or stereo gum and Places like that. Also more general interest publications like N1 or the Drift or whatever. And then. Well, I don't know how you're coping with it, but the endless flood of substacks trying to keep track of that.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, yeah, that's challenging. Yeah. I'm trying to tell myself that I'm going to wean myself off of other forms of social media so I can make space, because I feel like substack takes more time.

[Ann Powers]

It definitely does.

[Elena Passarello]

Like, I want to read. I want to engage with things that someone spent time on. That's my new kind of mantra, I think.

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, I think that is an admirable goal, for sure. It's hard, though. But I think also the one good thing I'll say about the more scrolly forms of social media is they have allowed me to connect with people with whom otherwise I may never have actually spoken. You know, the Twitter friend. I mean, is it a real friendship? Who knows? Who knows? But out of that has come good connections and being able to say to someone, hey, I love that thing you wrote. That's really powerful.

[Elena Passarello]

Are you listening, everyone?

We need to make sure we reach out to the right.

[Ann Powers]

No, seriously. And I'll tell you something else. You mentioned Grio Marcus.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Ann Powers]

So Griot was an early mentor of mine when I lived in San Francisco when I was like, 22, 23 years old, and writing for the SF Weekly, Alternative Weekly. And then as now, although now he uses email, he sends notes of praise to writers he admires.

[Elena Passarello]

Wow.

[Ann Powers]

I would receive a postcard occasionally from Griel.

[Elena Passarello]

Whoa.

[Ann Powers]

And this is ongoing throughout my life. Just a little postcard saying, oh, what you wrote, it made me think in a different way or anything like that. And just that simple gesture on his part made such a difference to me.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah. Just the idea that you would be able to change the thinking of somebody who helped you figure out who you were as a thinker.

[Ann Powers]

It's a big deal. Someone who was so fundamental to me. I mean, reading Mystery Train really is. That's the book that convinced me that I could be a serious writer and a music writer at the same time.

[Elena Passarello]

And Mystery Train was probably at least 10, 15 years old by the time you got to it from the early 70s.

[Ann Powers]

What was it about it that it actually was? I believe it was his. Was his master's thesis. It was a sort of, you know, images of America through popular music, and so great chapters on Elvis, Sly Stone, the Band, all these different figures while.

[Elena Passarello]

They were still working, right?

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was really like Historic. It was basic American studies style essay writing, but about popular music, which people just didn't take seriously as a subject.

[Elena Passarello]

This is a perfect thing to talk about, like a fundamental book, like, what is it about? And everybody should still read Mystery Train, so.

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's so many other writers since then who have taken up that form. And someone who always deserves mention in 2025 is Hanif Abdulraqib, who really has shown how you can do that kind of work for a new generation. I'm a huge Hanif fan, and his poeticism, his masterful use of memoir and autobiography, but also most of all, I think that connection he has with his reader. I remember the first time I saw Hanif Reed, he literally got on the floor and was like, at reader level, maybe a little below the eyes of his reader, you know. And just that willingness to humble himself, to not be distanced, I think was a sign that he would become what he became.

[Elena Passarello]

Is that when. Now when you share your book with people in readings or in interviews.

[Ann Powers]

I'm too old to get on the phone.

[Elena Passarello]

What does it feel like to you, though, as a writer and a reader to share your work with other people? What's your strategy for that one on one or. Or that in person version of yourself?

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, that's a really interesting question, especially now, because I think the book promotion circuit has moved more toward the interview. I'm maybe like you often on both sides. Sometimes I'm the subject, sometimes I'm the interviewer. Sometimes it's a more even conversation. And I love that. I mean, I love having a public conversation. It's a huge part of my career. But I am rarely asked to do just straight up readings, maybe because I'm a nonfiction writer also and a music writer. So something that I don't love about the kind of popular conception of arts writing in general is that the writing itself, the prose itself, I feel like there's. The bar is set lower that you're not necessarily expected to be an amazing writer at the level of the sentence if you're writing about a popular cultural subject. But all the writers I admire are, whether it's David Thompson in film or Emily Nussbaum in TV or. Or someone whose recent book I really loved is Ira Madison. Or, you know, Ira. Yeah. He published a book of essays called Pure Innocent Fun, which. It's like talking to a super smart person whose every single cell in their body is pop culture, you know. But it also is great on the level of sentence, you know.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah, it's funny and fun. He's great with interjections.

[Ann Powers]

Yeah.

[Elena Passarello]

Well, speaking of, we always like to end with this controversial question. Do you, Ann Powers, have a controversial reading opinion or book opinion that you'd like to lay on us?

[Ann Powers]

Well, I do, but I think it was controversial maybe 20 years ago and less so now. But, you know, it's that trash can be great.

[Elena Passarello]

Yeah.

[Ann Powers]

And now we both have the academic study of genres like romance, literature, obviously, sci fi, detective novels, all that stuff. And Romantasy is like ruling, Ruling everything. It's the most popular kind of fiction out there right now. But I did my master's thesis on kind of the Hollywood novel. And I, of course, read Nathaniel west and F. Scott Fitzgerald and people like that. But I also read Jackie Suzanne because you know what? Jackie Suzanne changed the culture.

[Elena Passarello]

She did.

[Ann Powers]

She totally did. And those novels, they're pure trash, for sure. They are not aspiring to be literary. I remember this picture. I'm talking about Once is Not Enough. I'm talking about Valley of the Dolls. Oh, yeah. Value of the Dolls. Great on every level. Not only a great book, a great trashy book, a great trashy movie. Also one of the best movie theme songs ever written by the great Dori Previn. So there you go.

[Elena Passarello]

Okay.

[Ann Powers]

Anyway, I remember seeing this picture of Jackie Suzanne that still inspires me so much. It was her in her office. She had this whiteboard. Before there were whiteboards or something. It was full of pieces of paper with, like. She was plotting out her novel. And it was like a war room, you know, it was like a war strategy. And I was just like, man, that woman, she knows how to write. She knows how to land the plane. So read the trash. Why not? You know, some of it's gonna be horrible, but you're gonna find some gems.

[Elena Passarello]

Okay, so I'm gonna read Valley of the Dolls, which I've never read. One more.

[Ann Powers]

Once is not enough.

[Elena Passarello]

Once it's not enough.

[Ann Powers]

Yeah, once it's not enough. Which. When I was in grade school, we're circling back to my grade school stories. When I was a kid, I was at my neighbor's house back in the day when you could run rampant and your parents didn't pay attention to you. In the 70s, I was sitting in my neighbors, the Golicks, who lived up the street. My brother was running around with his friend who was one of the kids in that family. I was left alone, and I picked up that book, and I was sitting there reading it. And I remember the dad, Mr. Golik, comes in and he looks at me. He was a classic 70s dad, like, mustache. I think he might have been a contractor. I don't know. He was just a classic 70s, 70s dad. He comes and he looks at me. He's like, does your mom know you're reading that? I'm like, yes, yes. He turned around and walked out. So thank you, Mr. Golick. You set me on my path.

[Elena Passarello]

Mr. Golick, what was the name of your favorite?

[Ann Powers]

Sonny Goldman is my librarian.

[Elena Passarello]

All the greats shout out to all of the early book pushers who made Amp Powers who she is today.

[Ann Powers]

Exactly.

[Elena Passarello]

Thank you so much for talking about reading with me. I really have enjoyed talking to you so much.

[Ann Powers]

This was so fun.

[Elena Passarello]

That was writer Ann Powers on Open Book. Her book Traveling on the Path of Joni Mitchell is out now. Be sure to grab [e-mail] thanks for listening to Open Book. I'm Elena Passarello, your host. Our executive producer is Laura Hadden, and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevchenko. Evan Hoffer is our technical director. Hazik Bin Ahmad Farid is our mixer. Awalker Spring composed our theme song, and Ashley park is our social media marketer. A big thanks to the entire staff at Livewire Radio, the fine folks at prx, and of course, Howell's books for sponsoring this podcast.

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