Open Book: Scaachi Koul

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank – Episode Summary: Open Book with Sachi Cole

Released on June 25, 2025

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Live Wire with Luke Burbank, host Elena Passarello delves into a heartfelt conversation with acclaimed writer Sachi Cole. Sachi, a senior writer at Slate and co-host of the Ambie Award-winning podcast Scamfluencers, shares insights from her latest collection of essays, Sucker Punch. The discussion navigates through Sachi's reading habits, her influences, experiences with book lending, and her perspectives on writing and acknowledgments.

---

Sachi Cole's Reading Habits

Sachi Cole opens up about her ambitious yet often unmet reading goals. When asked if she sets reading goals, she candidly admits:

“Every year I say I'm going to read a book a week, and I never do it. I get into the 30s, so that's.” (02:49)

Despite these lofty aims, Sachi typically reads around two books a month, though she faces challenges, especially in the early months of the year:

“This year it's been January, February and March that I have been completely incapable of reading.” (03:06)

Her commitment to reading is meticulous—she meticulously records every book she reads and maintains lists of upcoming reads, highlighting her organized approach:

“I write every book down that I read. I write down lists of books I want to read in my notebook.” (03:27)

---

Favorite Books and Influences

When discussing her current reading list, Sachi mentions several noteworthy titles, including Omar Al Akkad’s Martyr and a novel with an intriguing cover featuring an old Indian drawing. Her preference leans heavily toward fiction, a genre she finds refreshing compared to the nonstop nonfiction grind of her professional writing:

“I mostly read fiction. Because I write nonfiction and I don't wanna hear anybody else do it.” (04:00)

Sachi reflects on her literary upbringing, recalling how her mother's reading choices influenced her own. A pivotal moment was when, at age 12, she attempted to read A Fine Balance after her mother introduced her to it. Although she found it challenging, the experience left a lasting impression:

“She has cancer. That's how it starts, is she's sick. And I so distinctly remember reading that and being like, oh, cool, that's so cool. I want to do that.” (06:32)

Her admiration for authors like David Sedaris, Jhumpa Lahiri, and David Rakoff is evident. She appreciates their confessional and experimental writing styles, which have shaped her own approach:

“There’s something, like, effervescent about the way that they were writing that was different than a lot of the other kind of confessional work I had read.” (13:09)

---

Anecdotes about Book Lending and Ownership

Sachi shares her unique stance on book lending and ownership, emphasizing her dislike for others marking her books. She is particularly strict about dog-earing pages or writing in books:

“I'm offended by the decision making to dog eared the book. You can burn the book. I don't really care what happens to it.” (08:37)

This sentiment extends to her general treatment of books. She enjoys the carefree aspects of book ownership, such as forgetting where she left off or subjecting books to the elements, like dropping one in a pool:

“I like carrying one around. I like dropping it in the pool. I like having to dry it out later.” (07:50)

Sachi also recounts a humorous struggle with book signings. She narrates how she reacts when someone returns a signed book with unwanted notes:

“What would you do if somebody brought you back a book that said overall disappointing in it? [...] We people are happy to tell me that they don't like my writing.” (09:59)

---

Writing and Acknowledgments

The conversation transitions to the nuances of writing, particularly focusing on acknowledgment sections in books. Sachi reveals her habit of first reading acknowledgments to glean insights into an author's network and relationships:

“I like to see if I recognize anybody, because that's like. When you're a writer, you get the privilege of being like, oh, they know that guy.” (17:11)

She criticizes overly effusive or forced acknowledgments, advocating for a straightforward approach:

“Just a list of names. Keep it moving.” (17:58)

Sachi also touches upon how acknowledgment sections evolve across her books, hinting at changes in her personal and professional relationships:

“I hope somebody, somewhere who is sick, a mentally ill person, compares who I thanked in my first book and my second.” (18:21)

---

Book Titles and Controversial Opinions

Sachi showcases her knack for compelling book titles, both praising others and reflecting on her own experiences. She discusses the evolution of her book titles, sharing the challenges she faced in naming her works:

“It was called all these different things for a long time. I was calling it I hope Lightning Falls on you.” (16:01)

Her controversial book opinion surfaces when she humorously critiques the physical and content aspects of the Bible:

“I think the pages in the Bible are too thin and I think it makes for kind of an odious reading experience. And that's probably my main issue with the Bible, other than all the raping.” (19:04)

This bold stance underscores her fearless approach to literary critique, blending humor with honesty.

---

Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Sachi Cole provides a candid and insightful look into her life as a writer and reader. Her reflections on reading habits, literary influences, and personal anecdotes about books offer listeners a deeper understanding of her creative process and personal philosophies. The conversation is peppered with humor and authenticity, making it both engaging and relatable.

Sachi's latest work, Sucker Punch, is highlighted as a compelling exploration of how unexpected life changes can alter one's trajectory. Her dedication to storytelling and her unique perspectives solidify her standing as a prominent voice in contemporary literature.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• On unmet reading goals: “Every year I say I'm going to read a book a week, and I never do it. I get into the 30s, so that's.” (02:49)

• On fiction vs. nonfiction: “I mostly read fiction. Because I write nonfiction and I don't wanna hear anybody else do it.” (04:00)

• On dog-earing books: “I'm offended by the decision making to dog eared the book. You can burn the book. I don't really care what happens to it.” (08:37)

• On acknowledgments: “I like to see if I recognize anybody...” (17:11)

• On controversial opinions: “I think the pages in the Bible are too thin...” (19:04)

---

For more insightful conversations and literary discussions, tune in to future episodes of Live Wire with Luke Burbank.

Transcript

[Sachi Cole]

Support for this show comes from the Exploratorium Leap into the wild new world of Artificial intelligence this summer at the All New All Ages Exhibition Adventures in AI now through September 14th at Pier 15. Tickets at Exploratorium.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Edu AI Livewire is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Elena Passarello]

Hi there, I'm writer Elena Passarello and this is Open Book, a literary podcast from Livewire Radio, brought to you by Powell's Books, where we talk to writers about their reading habits. When I'm not having fun as Livewire's announcer, writing is my job. I'm the author of two nonfiction books, I'm currently writing a third, and outside my own writing projects, I teach writing in an MFA program here in Oregon. So all of this is to say that books are, without exaggeration my whole life. If you come stay at my house, you need to know that the guest bed is just a futon resting on top of a few dozen Joan Didion hardbacks. Just a FYI. This week we're talking to writer Sachi Cole. She's a senior writer at Slate, where she writes about everything from the sexual and gender politics of the Girls Gone Wild franchise to some really solid advice for JLO about what she should do post benefer 2.0. She's also the co host of the Ambie Award winning podcast Scamfluencers and the Emmy nominated Netflix series. Follow this. She is also also incredibly good at naming books. Her best selling debut, One Day We'll All Be Dead and None of this Will Matter was a New York Times Editor's Choice. She also has her own substack called Haydnation. Her latest collection of essays, Sucker Punch, examines what happens when the life you thought you'd be living radically changes course. I honestly had kind of a tough time talking to Sachi just because I was laughing so hard it was difficult to keep my microphone steady. She's got this lightning quick wit and it was such a blast to share book tour horror stories with her. Stay tuned if you want to hear about the greatest humiliation I ever sustained in a book signing line.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's get to it.

[Elena Passarello]

This is Sachi Cole on Open Book.

[Interviewer]

Sachi, welcome to Open Book.

[Sachi Cole]

Thanks.

[Interviewer]

Thank you. Okay, my first question do you set reading goals for Yourself?

[Sachi Cole]

Every year I say I'm going to read a book a week.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Sachi Cole]

Every year I say I'm going to do it, and I never do it. I get into the 30s, so that's.

[Interviewer]

Like maybe two books a month maybe.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get into the. Into the mid-30s or three. Yeah. I mean, there's just always like a month or two where I can't read.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

Like something happens this year it's been January, February and March that I have been completely incapable of reading. I don't know, I feel like maybe there was an election that made things a little challenging for me cognitively. But I always have goals. I write every book down that I read. I write down lists of books I want to read in my notebook. Like I'm actually kind of fastidious about it. I'm just negligent.

[Interviewer]

What's on your list right now once you get back into the swing of things?

[Sachi Cole]

I actually. I have to read Omar's book. Omar Al Akkad. Who's. He won the Giller Prize.

[Interviewer]

Winning.

[Sachi Cole]

Authorize winning. Omar Elica. Yeah. But I have to read his latest book. I have Martyr also sitting on my bedside table that I have to read.

[Interviewer]

Akbar. Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

And then there's another book and I can't remember the name of it, but the COVID is like an Excel spreadsheet with like an old Indian drawing on it. What is it? It's gonna come to me in like a fever dream, but it's like in the window everywhere. I need to read it.

[Interviewer]

Like a novel or.

[Sachi Cole]

Yes.

[Elena Passarello]

Okay.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So two novels in a nonfiction book.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. I mostly read fiction.

[Interviewer]

Huh. Why do you think that is?

[Sachi Cole]

Because I write nonfiction and I don't wanna hear anybody else do it. I already have to do it so much. Like, I already deal so often in reality, I'm tired and I'm really open to hearing someone lie to me for 400 pages.

[Interviewer]

So reading for you, or at least this kind of list based reading, maybe that you're setting your goals around, a majority of it or a significant portion of it is something that's running counter to the work that you're doing as a writer.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. It took me like years to read that G.D. sackler book because I was like, I know, it's good.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

I can't do it. Like what? Like what is it going to tell me? Everything. Bad. I know.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes.

[Sachi Cole]

So that stuff I find genuinely challenging because I have to read nonfiction all day. I read the news and I read court reports and transcripts and so by that point I'm pretty fried. I grew up reading a lot of fiction. My mom's a big reader. Like that was just how, you know, we did leisure time. So I still like reading, but I get tired.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember a book that your mother read when you were young? Your mother is a prominent part of this new fantastic book, Sucker Punch. Do you remember her reading a book and then you reading it either stealing it from her, her sharing it with you? Something in that?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. When I was like 12, she read a Fine Balance. So then I read A Fine Balance. And that book is hard to read.

[Interviewer]

Yes. Mishti Mystery.

[Sachi Cole]

Mystery, yeah. Rohinton Mystery. Yeah. I attempted that and did not understand a word of it. It was like during a phase of my life where I was kind of stealing books from a lot of people that I knew and reading them and was not equipped to read them. Like, I took a heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius, which is Dave Eggers book, and I wrote about that in Sucker Punch. That was my brother's copy. Took it from him, tried to read it, had no idea what I was reading, really liked it, didn't know why.

[Interviewer]

That came out like 2000, maybe 2001. Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

So 2001, I was 10.

[Interviewer]

Huh. Because your brother, as we learned in the memoir, is older or 12 years older than me. 12 years older.

[Sachi Cole]

So he had actually received the book because he just graduated law school. And so he's reading it as this like kind of semi new adult in the world. And I'm like, I know I'm gonna read it. This book that is like inexplicable even if you have an adult brain. It has like two beginnings. It's dual sided. There's cartoons, it's really graphic. It's bizarre.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Sachi Cole]

This was my formula.

[Interviewer]

That's how you started. I feel like the beginning of it is like just a budget for the whole book.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. There's so much like weird publishing stuff in there. And the thing I remember most viscerally is how much he describes the. The bile coming out of his mom's body.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

Cause his mother, she has cancer.

[Interviewer]

That's right.

[Sachi Cole]

That's how it starts, is she's sick. And I so distinctly remember reading that and being like, oh, cool, that's so cool. I want to do that.

[Interviewer]

Cool that he described it.

[Sachi Cole]

It was just. I liked the way he wrote it down. And I didn't know that could be a job. Like your job is that you just write what. How bilious people are. That sounds amazing. I'm still waiting for that job. I kind of have it, but in a different way.

[Elena Passarello]

But that's interesting.

[Interviewer]

You know what I think writers learn maybe to be writer on the way that they learn about reading or the way that they develop as readers.

[Sachi Cole]

I don't trust writers who say they don't read. No, I think that's very ooky, spooky.

[Interviewer]

No, I mean, how would you, how would you know how to read?

[Sachi Cole]

There are a lot of them who don't read.

[Interviewer]

Wow. I mean, except for January, February, March of this year, which everyone gets a.

[Sachi Cole]

Pass of this year, which I think we all get read.

[Elena Passarello]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

We can do whatever you want.

[Sachi Cole]

Pretty good reader. But in those three months, I didn't read fiction. I read every news report, an article, and again like court transcript, deposition record, interview transcript. So I was doing reading. It just sucked. It's the worst kind. And that reading is dispiriting. And then when you crack open a book, you're like, well, my brain is soft. And now I don't have room for this thing that I want to read.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Do you switch mediums like tech, like phone, ebook, print book in order to make that escape happen?

[Sachi Cole]

I only read books. Paper books, paper books. I don't have an E reader. I don't read the iPad. I sometimes subscribe to certain magazines or I will buy them if there's a big article that I want to read. I don't like reading on the Internet, which is unfortunate because I only work for websites.

[Interviewer]

Noted.

[Sachi Cole]

Slate. Noted. Internet writer does not like reading on the Internet. I will. But I like books. I like carrying one around. I like dropping it in the pool. I like having to dry it out later. I like giving them away. I don't take care of my books. I'm not protective over them except for maybe five or six of them. And I'm happy to loan them out. I think people who are defensive about their books are weird. And that said, if someone dog ears a book from me, oh, death penalty.

[Interviewer]

That's what I was going to.

[Sachi Cole]

Never speaking again.

[Interviewer]

So you don't dog ear your own book?

[Sachi Cole]

No, no, no, no.

[Interviewer]

And if you lend a book, it better come back.

[Sachi Cole]

I don't even care if it comes back. It's not about that. I'm offended that you would do it. Like, I'm offended by the decision making to dog eared the book. You can burn the book. I don't really care what happens to it. I'm offended by the fact that you couldn't find a receipt or like the.

[Interviewer]

Do not disturb sign.

[Sachi Cole]

Remember the page number? What do you mean? Like, how many books would you be reading that you don't know loosely where you are?

[Interviewer]

I did that when I was reading your book this week. You dog eared it? No, no, I remembered page 33. I was like, oh, Jesus's death year. That's where I need to come back to.

[Sachi Cole]

Great. See?

[Interviewer]

Do you not write in your books?

[Sachi Cole]

No. No. I also think that's weird. I don't. What? Like I didn't know. I get mad when I buy a book that's used and someone has written notes in there. I'm like, I didn't ask for you. Like, who are you? Trevor? Like 1999 Trevor. $2 at whatever vintage store that I popped into. I don't like that either.

[Interviewer]

This is a terrible story that has nothing to do with you. So I'm going to tell it. But my. I've written two books and my first book, somebody brought me to a signing. They said, well, I got this used. Is it okay if you still sign it? I said, fine. And I opened it up and the person who had read it before wrote on the part one page. Overall disappointing.

[Sachi Cole]

That is so funny.

[Interviewer]

So the second person who bought it was just mortified. I took like a million pictures of it. I was like, this is the best day of my life.

[Sachi Cole]

That's so funny.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So what would you do if somebody brought you back a book that said overall disappointing in it?

[Sachi Cole]

That we people are happy to tell me that they don't like my writing. So. Okay, like what's the difference between a ghost in a book saying it and like some lady telling me to my face?

[Interviewer]

Okay, what about the five? There are five books that you care very deeply about. You said that you will not loan out or that it are not. That they're precious.

[Sachi Cole]

I still have my brother's copy of A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius. I will not give that to anybody. I have a signed first edition of that book as well. Whoa. That I don't know what to do with. But I probably wouldn't loan it either. I don't loan out any of the books that I read when I was really young. So I have a bunch of David Sedaris that I got from like Costco when I was 13 because that's how I found out about them. Because Costco started selling Sedaris books en masse.

[Interviewer]

Good on Mass.

[Sachi Cole]

In 2004 in Canada. So they had all of them. And then I have Jon Stewart wrote a book called Naked Pictures of Famous People that I read 400 times when I was a kid. It's like a comedy book. But I couldn't stop reading it. Won't loan that out. I have my brother's original copy of Sign Language, which is Jerry Seinfeld's book. Terrible. It's not good, it's not funny. It's like deeply terrible. But I can't. It's just this little wretched paperback that would melt, I think, if it exited my possession. It's probably some sort of cursed Horcrux. I haven't decided yet.

[Interviewer]

But you can't.

[Sachi Cole]

But I can't. I can't. It's not even like, oh, the book's like super important. It's like, what will happen to the recipient.

[Interviewer]

So it's for the sake of other.

[Sachi Cole]

People want to protect strangers from whatever these books are.

[Interviewer]

But would you say that's kind of your sentimental education as the person now who has these books and this podcast and this short form writing career, reading these like essays like David Sedaris and these kind of. I don't know what you would call the memoir kind of like I think they used to call it back in the day. David Eggers, they called him Confessional. No, gosh. What is the. It's the. Oh, hysterical realism was what they called, like him. That's what they were saying. Yeah, because, you know, magic realism was, you know, the Gabriel Garcia Marquez. But this idea of kind of like being super confessional but also being really experimental. And is that. Does that feel like a part of. Or do you see that kind of lineage in the work that you produce now?

[Sachi Cole]

I mean, like I had the tastes of a 27 year old white guy who like dropped out of brown. I don't know what was going on with me in my preteen years. A babysitter perhaps could have solved this for me instead of me being left alone for so long. But yeah, I mean, they were. That's how I learned how to write, is I read all this stuff and I was like, this is funny. Oh, these people are writing about their families. Like, I also loved reading Jhumpa Lahiri. I won't give those books out either because those books were, I mean, not quite how I write. But she was talking about these family dynamics that I recognized so much. So did David Sedara, so did David Rakoff. His books I won't loan out.

[Interviewer]

Me too.

[Sachi Cole]

Like, he's one of my favorite writers. Like, there was something there that was like crackly to me that I liked. And I was like, oh, okay. Maybe I can mimic it.

[Interviewer]

I like that. Crackly. It's like setting off the pop Rocks in your soul.

[Sachi Cole]

There's something, like, effervescent about the way that they were writing that was different than a lot of the other kind of confessional work I had read, or work that is confessional but pretending to be fiction, which is the thing that a lot of books kind of do. Harper does that, which I write about in Sucker Punch. Yeah. She's pretending that's fiction. It's not. That's what happened.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

That's what he did to her. So whether she threw a cake on him or not, I don't know. Probably worse. But, yeah, I recognized it.

[Interviewer]

Have you not felt compelled to put that mask on? Do you think that's a generational thing?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, like, oh, I'm just not good at it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

I think anybody would read it and be like, who's this little performance for? What's the point?

[Interviewer]

Right. Better to just kind of tell the story as you would tell the story.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. It would just be disingenuous as yourself.

[Interviewer]

So, okay, back to reading. So we. Now we know all about your past. What. What's in the future for you as a reader. Like, once you're done with your book tour. You're on tour right now. Let's say you get, like, 96 hours off and you're somewhere cool, like, really relaxing. What are you bringing with you?

[Sachi Cole]

I always like to read a book about a family in disarray when you're.

[Interviewer]

When you're relaxing.

[Sachi Cole]

That's, like, my favorite thing to read.

[Interviewer]

Nice.

[Sachi Cole]

So, like, if I can. I remember going on vacation. I think I went to Cuba for, like, four days, and I brought, I think, all of Franzen's books because I just hadn't read any of them. Like, I brought, like, three or four.

[Interviewer]

That's a big suitcase.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, I read all of them. I'm a fast reader. Once I'm gonna read, I'm gonna read it. And I sat there and read it, and I was with my ex, and he was like, this is what you want to read on vacation? I'm like, yeah, I love it. Look at these white people. They can't get it together. I love it so much, but that's my favorite thing. Like, yeah. Families in chaos.

[Interviewer]

Multiple characters.

[Sachi Cole]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

I like a multi generational arc. Not a lot of people pull it off, but I still like reading it.

[Interviewer]

It is like. It's this. You get this thing that you can never get in real life, which is like the Dollhouse. You can see every room in the house. And then they get so kind of intimate. Like the Corrections is like that.

[Sachi Cole]

That's such a good book. And I mean, that's really good too, because it's fun to read those books and then like grow empathetic towards different characters as you're reading it and less empathetic towards others. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. That's the kind of writing I wish I could do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

And I can't, but I wish I could.

[Interviewer]

One thing that you are amazing. I think you could probably do it, but I think you are already amazing at titles. Do you have a book title that you're like, oh, yeah, Game Recognize Game. That's a really good one.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. There is a book by a Canadian writer, Anna Mellor Paperny, I think is her name, and it's called hello, I Want to Die, Please Fix Me, which I think is like. It's a book about suicidal ideation and depression. But what a good title. Yes, what a good title.

[Interviewer]

Did you have any pushback or anything about your first book? I want to make sure I get this title perfectly right. One day we'll all be dead and none of this will matter. Did that sail through?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, I mean, that was the subtitle of the book for a long time. So it was originally going to be called I Can't Even Remember, Something Very Different. And then while we were working on it, I was like, I don't think this makes a lot of sense. And so we changed it and nobody fought me on it. And then the second title, I couldn't. I could not think of what Sucker Punch needed to be called. It was called all these different things for a long time. I was calling it I hope Lightning Falls on you, which is like a rough translation of an insult my mom always says to us. Like, and has said to us since we were kids. It didn't make sense as I was trying to get through the book. And then my book editor's husband came up with the title, which filled me with rage. That, like, my friend's loser husband is the one who came out and he's like, never gonna let me forget it. He brings it up all the time. I want him dead. It sucks. Anybody else? It could have been my ex husband. He could have emailed me directly and been like, what about Sucker Punch? That would have been less offensive. Would have been better than Michael Goldless. God.

[Interviewer]

The next book I think is going to be called Suck It, Michael Goldless. I think that might be.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, Eat Shit, Mike. That's book three.

[Interviewer]

I was very excited to ask you this question, Sashi. Are you an acknowledgement section reader? Even if you don't know the author.

[Sachi Cole]

It'S the first thing I read. I'm serious.

[Interviewer]

What are we looking for? I am too. I love to.

[Sachi Cole]

I like to see if I recognize anybody, because that's like. When you're a writer, you get the privilege of being like, oh, they know that guy. Everybody knows that guy. Or like, you know that guy. That guy sucks. So I love reading the acknowledgments, and I love seeing how much people like each other or don't.

[Interviewer]

Every once in a while, there's an acknowledgment section where you feel like some of those thank yous are pretty forced.

[Sachi Cole]

Like they're being held hostage to say thank you. And I.

[Interviewer]

Gratitude to my thanks.

[Sachi Cole]

My thanks. Yikes.

[Interviewer]

No adjectives, no subject.

[Sachi Cole]

The person must have really hurt you.

[Interviewer]

Or then there are the acknowledgments that are just, like a hundred pages long.

[Sachi Cole]

Too effusive.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's hard to. But it's hard when you. When you want to acknowledge people for helping you with your books.

[Sachi Cole]

You just gotta. It's a list of names. Keep it moving.

[Interviewer]

It's like. But I turned to it first as well. I feel like it's kind of like when you go on social media, when you look at someone's account to see who else they're friends with, it's like an opportunity to kind of get excited by their followers or who they're following. What about the difference between an acknowledgment section of one's first book versus an acknowledgments question of one second book?

[Sachi Cole]

I hope somebody, somewhere who is sick, a mentally ill person, compares who I thanked in my first book and my second. I'm open to hearing that.

[Interviewer]

Well, it is a book about a change, like a major change between the.

[Sachi Cole]

First and the second. Yeah. And there's some people who didn't make it, you'll notice. And there's several people who have not made it to book three, whenever that comes out already. We're already seeing how they won't make it. Good to know.

[Interviewer]

You could just tell them, text them you're out of the.

[Sachi Cole]

They know. We don't. It's. It's. Everybody accepts fate.

[Interviewer]

Okay, last question. This is the last question. Every time we do this podcast. We would love to hear, if you have one, a controversial book opinion.

[Sachi Cole]

I think the pages in the Bible are too thin and I think it makes for kind of an odious reading experience. And that's probably my main issue with the Bible, other than all the raping. But. Yeah, but it's really the onion thin pages.

[Interviewer]

Number two is the. The super thin pages. It is true that it makes you kind of. You don't like tear through the Bible because you would literally tear through the Bible.

[Sachi Cole]

Tear through the Bible. Yeah. I just think it's kind of a weak read.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so if somebody ever asks to have one of your books printed on onion skin pages, that's gonna be a. Hell no.

[Sachi Cole]

Like I said, I don't care what you do. Buy it. You can do whatever you want after you want an onion thin page. Buy it. It's $400.

[Interviewer]

You could write it on an actual onion. Yeah, actually, that would be kind of cool. Stay tuned for Saachi Kul's next book, Edible Edible Onion. And the acknowledgment section is going to be brutal.

[Sachi Cole]

Very thin.

[Interviewer]

Thank you so much for talking to us and congratulations on the book.

[Sachi Cole]

Thanks for having me.

[Elena Passarello]

That was writer Sachi Cole on Open Book. Her latest collection of essays is Sucker Punch. And you can get it@powell's.com. thanks for listening to Open Book. I'm Elena Passarello, your host. Our executive producer is Laura Hadden, and our producer and editor is Melanie Sevchenko. Eben Hoffer is our technical director. Hazik Bin Ahmad Farid is our mixer. Awalker Spring composed our theme song, and Ashley park is our social media marketer. A big thanks to the entire staff at Livewire Radio, the fine folks at prx, and of course, Powell's Books for sponsoring this podcast.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Hey, if you appreciate the work that Livewire is doing to amplify riveting and unexpected voices to a national audience, and I gotta tell you, it's a big audience these days, please, please, please consider offering some monthly support by becoming a member of our league of extraordinary listeners. Here's how it works. Membership starts at just five bucks a month and there are great perks at every level, including a special shout out on the broadcast. Impress your friends by being shouted out on Livewire. It means the world to us and really does make it possible for us to do the show. So please, if you can, help, support us by visiting Livewire memberships.

[Interviewer]

From prx.