Open Book: Sloane Crosley

Summary

Live Wire with Luke Burbank: Open Book Episode Featuring Sloane Crosley

Release Date: July 16, 2025

In this engaging episode of Live Wire with Luke Burbank, hosted by PRX, Sloane Crosley delves into the current landscape of literary controversies and the enduring power of books. The conversation seamlessly transitions into a rich dialogue between Emily St. John Mandel and Jesse David Fox, exploring diverse facets of reading, writing, and the intricate relationship between authors and their audiences.

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1. The Power and Controversy of Books

Sloane Crosley opens the discussion by addressing the heated debates surrounding book selections for reading, teaching, and sharing with children. She emphasizes the significant influence books wield in shaping societal perspectives, stating:

"We're living through an uncertain time, and it's clearer than ever that books have power."
[00:00]

Crosley highlights the importance of mindful book dissemination in contemporary times, setting the stage for deeper conversations about literature's role in society.

2. Introducing Brooklyn Public Library’s New Podcast Series

Jesse David Fox brings attention to Brooklyn Public Library's initiative to celebrate transformative literature through their upcoming podcast series, Borrowed and Returned.

"This summer, we're launching a new podcast series called Borrowed and Returned, where we revisit the books that changed us and changed America, too."
[00:14]

He encourages listeners to subscribe and join the journey of rediscovering influential books throughout the summer.

3. Transition to Author Conversation

Following a brief advertisement, the episode transitions to a spirited conversation between Emily St. John Mandel and Jesse David Fox, focusing on their personal reading habits and experiences as writers.

4. Exploring Personal Reading Habits

Emily St. John Mandel initiates the discussion by inquiring about Fox's approach to reading.

"How would you describe yourself as a reader? Are you a regimented reader? Are you an emotional reader?"
[01:13]

Jesse David Fox candidly describes himself as an "craving based" reader who prioritizes personal interest over obligation, noting:

"I learned finally to quit books. I used to pride myself on this when I was in my early 20s, that I'd never walked out of a movie and I'd never left a book unfinished."
[01:23]

He emphasizes his irregular reading pattern, influenced by his professional background in book reviewing and publicity.

5. Comfort Reads and Favorite Authors

The conversation shifts to Fox's preferences for "comfort food" books, highlighting authors he admires and finds solace in:

"I love Emily St. John Mandel. I love Lauren Groff. ... They’re quite serious authors. ... They are comfort food."
[02:28]

Fox clarifies that his comfort reads are not guilty pleasures but rather works by esteemed authors that provide a sense of literary comfort.

6. Reading Habits During Writing Projects

Emily St. John Mandel probes into how Fox's reading habits shift when immersed in writing projects.

"Does your reading change when you're in the throes of a writing project?"
[02:56]

Fox reveals that he often diverges from his current writing focus, opting to read genres opposite to his project to stimulate creativity:

"If I'm working on nonfiction, I'll read fiction and vice versa."
[03:06]

He shares his experience while writing Grief Is for People, mentioning his deep engagement with Virginia Woolf's works.

7. Discussing Book Adaptations

The duo delves into the realm of book adaptations, debating the quality and impact of translating literature to screen. Fox expresses admiration for certain adaptations, proclaiming:

"You are haunted by those things."
[05:12]

He cites Station Eleven as a "spectacular" adaptation, while also critiquing recent adaptations that may fall short of their source material's depth.

8. Emotional Impact of Literature

Emily St. John Mandel and Fox explore how certain books evoke strong emotional responses. Fox reminisces about impactful reads that moved him to tears:

"The first adult book that ever made me cry was The Chosen by Chaim Potok."
[05:54]

He discusses the profound emotional connections readers can develop with literature, highlighting the delicate balance authors maintain in eliciting genuine emotions.

9. Audiobooks and Listening Preferences

The conversation transitions to the topic of audiobooks, with Fox sharing his limited engagement with the format:

"My audiobook diet is nil. I just listened to my first."
[07:19]

He elaborates on his selective approach to audiobooks, linking it to his lifestyle and personal preferences.

10. Transitioning from Book Publicist to Writer

Fox reflects on his professional journey from book publicity to becoming an author, discussing the challenges and mindset shifts involved:

"It's the people-pleasing switch. ... You have to unwind it."
[09:14]

He emphasizes the importance of balancing audience expectations with authentic self-expression in writing.

11. Aspirations for Fellow Authors

The discussion touches on fellow authors' potential projects, with Fox expressing interest in future memoirs by Zadie Smith:

"I would like to see more narrative from her."
[10:11]

He admires Smith's versatility and anticipates her contributions to narrative nonfiction.

12. Conclusion and Well-Wishes

As the conversation winds down, Mandel and Fox exchange congratulations on Fox's recent publications, wrapping up their insightful dialogue on literature, emotional resonance, and the evolving dynamics of reading and writing.

"Congratulations on the book."
[11:12]

---

Behind the Scenes with Live Wire

In a playful outro, Sloane Crosley invites listeners to explore more vibrant discussions and entertaining segments on Livewire Radio, encouraging engagement with the broader community.

"Do you want to hear your favorite authors talk about their own work and maybe sweat a little?"
[11:20]

---

Notable Quotes:

• Sloane Crosley: "We're living through an uncertain time, and it's clearer than ever that books have power."
  [00:00]

• Jesse David Fox: "I learned finally to quit books. I used to pride myself on this when I was in my early 20s, that I'd never walked out of a movie and I'd never left a book unfinished."
  [01:23]

• Jesse David Fox: "They are quite serious authors. Like, I love Emily St. John Mandel. I love Lauren Groff. They’re quite serious authors. ... They are comfort food."
  [02:28]

• Jesse David Fox: "If I'm working on nonfiction, I'll read fiction and vice versa."
  [03:06]

• Jesse David Fox: "The first adult book that ever made me cry was The Chosen by Chaim Potok."
  [05:54]

• Jesse David Fox: "My audiobook diet is nil. I just listened to my first."
  [07:19]

• Jesse David Fox: "It's the people-pleasing switch. ... You have to unwind it."
  [09:14]

---

This episode of Live Wire with Luke Burbank offers a compelling exploration of the intricate relationships between readers, writers, and the ever-evolving literary landscape. Through candid conversations and thoughtful reflections, listeners gain deeper insights into the personal experiences and professional journeys of esteemed authors like Jesse David Fox and Emily St. John Mandel.

Transcript

[Sloane Crosley]

Recently, there's been a lot of controversy over books. Which books to read, which books to teach, which books to share with our children. We're living through an uncertain time, and it's clearer than ever that books have power.

[Jesse David Fox]

So we at Brooklyn Public Library wanted to return to the books. This summer, we're launching a new podcast series called Borrowed and Returned, where we revisit the books that changed us and changed America, too.

[Sloane Crosley]

Our first episode drops July 8th. Subscribe to Borrowed wherever you get podcasts and spend your summer rereading with us.

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[Emily St. John Mandel]

Hi Sloane. I'm so excited to be talking to you. Laughing already.

[Jesse David Fox]

I am so excited to be talking to you too as well. Thank you for having me.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Oh yeah. Here's what I really want to know. How would you describe yourself as a reader? Are you a regimented reader? Are you an emotional reader? How would you describe yourself?

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, definitely craving based. I don't do things because I think I should. I learned finally to quit books. I used to pride myself on this when I was in my early 20s, that I'd never walked out of a movie and I'd never left a book unfinished. And I don't know where I got that as a source of pride. Like it's not. So I do that. But I'm pretty irregular because I do a lot of book reviewing. So, you know, and I worked in publicity for so long in book publicity, so I'm sort of used to just chain smoking them.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Is there a time of day or is it because it's your job, you're kind of doing it all day long, all day long.

[Jesse David Fox]

Every once in a while. The only thing that is a sort of marker of difference is if I wake up and go back to a book that is super rare. You know, the second your eyes meet consciousness, that you have to know what happens. That's pretty rare.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

That's how you know a book is good.

[Jesse David Fox]

I mean, but if that was the only measurement, there would be two books.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Right?

[Jesse David Fox]

Right. I don't even know what they are. But you know what I mean?

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Well, what. In general, what kind of books do you find yourself looking if you want to do something non professional, something comfortable.

[Jesse David Fox]

I feel weird naming the authors because it's gonna make them sound like guilty pleasures, but they're actually sort of. They're quite serious authors. Like, I love Emily St. John Mandel. I love Lauren Groff. I don't have a thing where I secretly read romance or mystery, although I edited. That's a hard word to say for what it means and what I do. I edited an anthology that had Lee Child in it, and so I got kind of addicted to his books. And they just. They're comfort food.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Does your reading change when you're in the throes of a writing project?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes, I tend to do. I sort of go against the grain. So if I'm working on nonfiction, I'll read fiction and vice versa.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Do you remember what you read when you were putting together Grief Is for People? Wow.

[Jesse David Fox]

What did I read? Oh, yeah, no, I read basically all of Virginia Woolf, which is not exactly going against the grain, considering the fact that the book is about the suicide of my close friend. So I don't know, but I thought, you know, to the Lighthouse. A romp.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah, why not?

[Jesse David Fox]

Let's do it. Yeah.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Well, your book, you handle it with, like, a kind of a humor and a levity, so it's interesting. The wolf is sort of not. She's not known for her levity.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think that's it. I think that's it. Yeah. I don't read, but I don't. If you ask other authors this question, too, I'm like, you should have other people answer these questions. But, you know, if you ask David Sedaris what he's reading, nine times out of 10, either about taxidermy or, like, the Holocaust. It's just the farthest thing you could possibly think from sort of antics and etiquette and cute little stories.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Right. You want to exercise a muscle that isn't the muscle that you're kind of showing up for every day as a writer.

[Jesse David Fox]

But you also don't want to copy people. You know, you want to find that line between inspiration and just, you know, copying people.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Speaking of copying, well, this isn't really copying, but adapting. Is there a film or a television adaptation of a book that you think was really well done?

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, I got so excited because I was like, I thought you were gonna ask me if one of my books was being adapted.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah, no, no, I'm telling you now. I don't know if you know this, but Greta Gerweg is very interested.

[Jesse David Fox]

Wonderful. Good news. Is there an adaptation? I just saw Zone of Interest, which is only because Martin Amos, may he rest in peace, is better than the book.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

You would only say that now that we know that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Only now that he's dead and not listening to this podcast, which we all know he would do nonstop. It's one of those things where he would open his eyes in the morning and turn on the podcast. I mean, that's so fresh in my head because I just saw it a couple weeks ago and it was just. I thought it was. Yeah, everything that. It's unfortunate that we've already wasted all the words, words like haunting and beautiful on so many things that aren't really that haunting and don't stick with you and are just sort of pretty. Yeah, but this really is those things.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah. Like you are haunted by those things.

[Jesse David Fox]

I was haunted. I couldn't stop thinking about it.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

And that's the highest praise I think you can give is when an adaptation is actually better than the book.

[Jesse David Fox]

Godfather or just, I mean, actually Station 11. I thought the adaptation of that was good.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Station 11 was spectacular.

[Jesse David Fox]

Spectacular.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

I feel like it got a little swallowed and.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh my God, it did get a little swallowed the other day. There's a scene. For those of you who have not read it, I won't spoil it, but there's a sort of a reunion between two characters and it's pretty pivotal. And I intentionally watched it the other night to make myself cry. I'm like, I'm just. You talk about what I'm in the mood for, you know, I'm like, I don't know. I'm just in the mood to make myself cry. So I did that.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Are there books that you read that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Will make me cry? Yes, they're really surprising. I remember the first book, the first adult book that ever made me cry was the Chosen by. I'm gonna go ahead and really put my back into this by Chaim Pottok. It made me bawl my eyes at it. It's about two friends and it's just in this tiny tight knit community in Williamsburg, Brooklyn and you know, this sort of Zionist and anti Zionist sort of butting heads and these two boys, they're friends and it has a sort of Romeo and Juliet quality and it's just beautiful. But I don't remember what about that book really made me cry. I will say there's a short story that became a home at the end of the world, which is White angel by Michael Cunningham. And the last line of that story, I'm not even gonna say now because one must compose oneself when there are listeners.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

One has a microphone in front of.

[Jesse David Fox]

One has a microphone in front of.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

One does not want to shed tears at all.

[Jesse David Fox]

I would have to do is see the last line of that and cry.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

I feel that way about a Michael Cunningham novella. The first one in Specimen Days, the one that takes place in Walt Whitman's New York. And I listen to the audio for.

[Jesse David Fox]

He can stick a landing. That guy.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah. He's like, I don't know who. A gym. The only gymnast I could think is that one who barely stuck the landing because her foot was broken. No. Oh, yeah. Someone Biles. Yeah, he's like a civilian. Biles. Oh, I listened to Specimen Days. I listened to Alan. Alan Cumming.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes, that one perfectly read.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

What's your audiobook diet like?

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, my audiobook diet is nil. I just listened to my first. So I have recorded five out of six of my books. So I just finished recording Grief is for people, which, you know, good for them. They got my voice cracking a few times. I'm sure that'll be good. But I can. Yeah, I condition out, but I can't take it. I listen to very few audiobooks. I just bought my first one. And I want you to know that during the pandemic, I also read most of Henry Green. When I say it was the Britney Spears audiobook. I wanted to hear Michelle Williams.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Kudos to her acting, but also kudos to whatever voice level she found where it was her. But it was that sort of baby voice Britney thing. And I can't believe she kept it up at this even tone. It's amazing.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

It was perfect casting. I know. They just.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did you listen to it?

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, you did.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

I know they just gave Oscars for casting. You know, they're gonna do. Casting directors are gonna get Oscars now. But when are they gonna give casting audio audiobooks?

[Jesse David Fox]

I always. So I've been like nominated for a couple of not Grammys but like Audis or what have you. Just to clarify. Just I don't have the Tony quite yet, but I feel like. Yeah, I'll never beat like Jimmy Carter.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

No.

[Jesse David Fox]

They give it to the presidents or.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Like Obama or Hillary Clinton. Yeah. No, it's true.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, a distinctive voice doesn't mean you read good.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah. Do you think that's why you don't listen to audiobooks that much because you have kind of high standards having.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think it's because I don't leave the house that much. I do. I think that it's like audiobooks are for people who drive around and jog. I'm like, well, I don't do either of those things. This is a genuine answer.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

So your life before you started writing full time involved book publicity.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is that the right. Yes, that's the term.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

What is it like to transition into being a writer, having been somebody who represented writers for so long? Is there a switch you have to turn off or like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it's the people pleasy switch. It's not the switch you think it is. It's like a little more something that drives, if I may be so earnest at the heart, the core of the work, which is playing to a crowd, you know, trying to figure out what people would like.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now, at the same time, you don't have to be a book publicist or have been one to not want to alienate your reader. I think there's no shame in that. And I think people who go out of their way to do that are not necessarily. I'm like, you're not Nabokov. Nabokov. Either way, you're neither of them. Yeah. That desire for people to like you is sort of amplified by the job, and you have to unwind it.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah. Okay, so Grief is for People is a memoir. I don't know if you knew that. FYI.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sort of not, but yes.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

What memoir? And you were talking about Britney Spears memoir.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

What memoir has not been written yet that you would rush to read?

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, wow. Zadie Smith. Mm. How come she writes she's dipped her toe quite successfully. You know, her toe dipping is everyone else's diving. You know, it's just one awards into narrative nonfiction, into essays, both after the pandemic and Feel Free. And so you get her viewpoint, you know, a slightly closer viewpoint, because it's her talking about, you know, the world, the difference between, you know, joy and motherhood and all the things she writes about. But it's still slightly removed. It's still almost researcher based, and I would like to see more narrative from her.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

And also, didn't she train as a jazz singer and just kind of abandoned it to be a writer?

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, she's an incredibly, incredibly talented singer.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

I bet there's some other. Like a pilot's license.

[Jesse David Fox]

A pilot's license. Card tricks.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Watch your wallet around her.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah, well, stuff like that. Yeah. She's a sharp.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's whatever I believe.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Well, this was great.

[Jesse David Fox]

Thank you so much.

[Emily St. John Mandel]

Yeah, my pleasure. And congratulations on the book.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, thank you.

[Sloane Crosley]

Hey there, open book listeners. I hope you enjoyed this week's chat, and I've got a little behind the scenes podcasting secret for you. That writer that you just heard, we had our conversation backstage at my other show, Livewire Radio, while they were getting ready to face something way more terrifying than Lil o me, a live audience of several hundred people. Do you want to hear your favorite authors talk about their own work and maybe sweat a little? I swear, these live shows are so vivid, so exciting, you can actually hear the guests sweat. Oh, also, do you want to hear music and comedy and other truly unhinged, often sweaty hijinks from Luke Burbank and yours truly? Well then head on over to livewireradio.org or find us on your favorite podcast app, because the party is just getting started.

[Jesse David Fox]

From PRX.