Live Wire with Luke Burbank
Episode: Susan Orlean and David Ramirez
Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of Live Wire, host Luke Burbank sits down with acclaimed writer Susan Orlean—staff writer for The New Yorker and bestselling author of The Orchid Thief, among others—for an in-depth conversation about her new memoir, Joyride. Orlean discusses her creative process, reflections on her storied career, and how she finds and shapes the stories that have captivated readers for decades. The episode also features a live musical performance from Austin-based singer-songwriter David Ramirez, and some lighthearted audience interaction around memoir titles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Susan Orlean: Beginnings and Early Career (12:09–16:35)

• On Childhood and Why She Writes

  • Orlean describes herself as a curious child who believed in the "magical power of writing things down" (12:36).
  • She would meticulously document family vacations, feeling that "if I wrote it down, it felt like I could keep it forever" (12:58).

• Portland Origins

  • Orlean sparked her writing career in Portland, following her boyfriend and starting out at a small magazine before moving to Willamette Week.
  • She confesses to learning journalism on the job: “I took no journalism courses in college...I just threw myself in and learned on the job” (13:31).

• Formative Advice from a Mentor

  • Her editor at Willamette Week, Ron Buell, outlined three phases of nonfiction writing: reporting/research, thinking, and writing (14:38).
  • She emphasizes the importance of the ‘thinking’ phase, admitting that with book projects she’ll open an empty Word doc titled “New Book”—a psychological trick to soothe her nerves about daunting research (15:38).

Craft and Approach to Storytelling (18:59–24:27)

• Linear Writing Process

  • Orlean approaches her writing like oral storytelling: “You start at the beginning, you then go to the next part. And it's very connected in a way that's organic” (19:06).
  • She aims to internalize her stories so she could recite them aloud, creating a natural narrative flow (19:25).

• Musicality of Prose

  • Orlean likens her writing’s rhythm and pacing to music: “The pacing is really important, the tempo...it feels very musical” (20:23).

“The American Man at Age 10”: Rejecting Celebrity for the Ordinary (20:44–24:43)

• Turning Down Macaulay Culkin for a Regular Kid

  • When assigned by Esquire to capture the “American man at age 10,” Orlean famously declined the offer to profile Macaulay Culkin, instead pitching “an ordinary 10-year-old boy” named Colin Duffy (21:23).
  • On her motivation: “But he [Culkin] doesn’t represent the American man at age 10… How about if I just write about an ordinary 10-year-old boy” (21:28).
  • The initial interactions with Colin were awkward, but gradually warmed as his friends showed interest.

• Recurring Self-Doubt

  • Orlean confides that with every story: “This was a terrible mistake and will be the end of Susan Orlean’s career” (23:49). This recurrent anxiety is a creative motif for her.

• On the Limitations of Celebrity Profiles

  • “There’s almost nothing less illuminating than the celebrity profile…you get this very bland interview with them” (24:04).
  • She recounts an anecdote with Tom Hanks, where he tells multiple journalists the 'same deep secret,' proving the illusion of intimacy in celebrity coverage (25:54).

Memorable Quote:
“Even if you become convinced…you’re the one who really connected…turns out everyone gets the same ‘exclusive’ quote.”
—Susan Orlean (26:29)

Book Projects and Adventures in Reporting (27:35–39:48)

• Saturday Night: A National Portrait

  • Orlean’s first book was an ambitious attempt to paint a panorama of what Americans do on Saturday night. She wanted to “[create] this kind of snapshot of Saturday night in a wide range of places and circumstances around the country” (29:01).
  • The project ranged from Portland lounge bands to Maryland polka parlors, exploring “why is it that we want Saturday night to be different?” (30:08).
  • She spent years with “strangers” every Saturday, noting, “I realized that I had committed to spending my Saturday nights for like five years, working, essentially, with strangers” (31:37).

• The Birth of The Orchid Thief

  • The now-classic book started serendipitously when Orlean, out of reading material on a flight, read a Miami Herald article: “Local Nurseryman. Crew of Seminoles Arrested in Swamp with Rare Orchids...I’m in. I don’t understand a single word of this headline” (32:09).
  • Her dislike of Florida, orchids, and swamps ironically drew her deeper into the story, first as a New Yorker article, then a full book.

• From Book to Wild Film: ‘Adaptation’

  • The narrative becomes surreal when her book is adapted—very loosely—into the film Adaptation, with Meryl Streep playing a fictionalized Susan Orlean: “There I am as a character…having an affair with John Laroche, the orchid thief, being a drug maniac, killing a Fish and Wildlife officer. You know, just a few differences” (36:18, 03:13).
  • She initially balked at having her real name used, but acquiesced after producers threatened to credit someone else for the book within the film (37:20).
  • Seeing Meryl Streep announce “Hi, I’m Susan Orlean,” on screen was “an out of body experience” (38:52).

Memorable Moment/Quote:
“I’m signing the paper just thinking, yeah, like, all in a day’s work. This is completely crazy.”
—Susan Orlean on agreeing to the film’s wild fictionalization (37:20)

On Memoir, Reflection, and Storytelling (39:48–42:09)

• Why Write a Memoir Now?
  • Orlean never intended to write a memoir, but during the pandemic—and upon realizing that The Orchid Thief turned 25—the impulse surfaced: “I had to sort of lead you to the point where this young writer had the nerve to say, no, I don’t want to profile Macaulay Culkin. So who was that person?” (41:09).
  • She sees her story as universal: “An eternal story about our need to tell each other stories and to hear each other’s stories. And that won’t ever change” (41:59).

Audience Interaction: Memoir Titles (45:20–48:21)

• Elena and Luke ask the audience: "What would the title of your memoir be?" (45:20)
  • Suggestions include:
    • "How to Overthink Everything: A Memoir in Three Volumes (or Should it be Four?)"
    • "Why I'm Like This"
    • "My therapist thinks this title is too long, but I disagree: A Memoir"
    • "Colon: Colon. A Memoir of IBS" (riffing on the prevalence of colons in memoir subtitles)

Memorable Banter:

• Elena: “I have always wanted to call mine ‘Tis Pity She’s a Ham,’ which is both pretentious and obnoxious…” (45:53)

Musical Performance: David Ramirez (51:30–55:21)

• Austin songwriter David Ramirez performs “Put in the Work, Put in the Time,” a rootsy meditation on perseverance.
• Ramirez’s style is praised by NPR as “the ever moody innovator of Americana” (50:45).
• The song’s message: “If you’re just wishing, you ain’t pitching strikes…Put in the work, put in the time” (53:44–55:21).

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• "Every piece of nonfiction writing has three distinct phases: reporting, thinking, and writing." –Susan Orlean, on writing advice from her editor (14:38)
• “You start at the beginning…it's very connected in a way that's organic.” –Susan Orlean, on storytelling structure (19:06)
• “I just sort of blurted out, how about if I just write about an ordinary 10-year-old boy...” (21:28)
• “I get back to my office…my office mate said, ‘Let me guess. That he always thought he was ugly.’” – Susan Orlean, on the Tom Hanks profile (26:29)
• “One common denominator…is that Saturday night still feels different from the rest of the week…” (29:10)
• “There I am as a character…having an affair with John Laroche, the orchid thief, being a drug maniac, killing a Fish and Wildlife officer. You know, just a few differences.” –Susan Orlean, on Adaptation (37:19, also 03:13)
• “I truly believe that the story I’m telling is an eternal story about our need to tell each other stories…” (41:59)
• “Put in the work, put in the time.” –David Ramirez, song lyric (53:44–55:21)

Episode Flow Outline

• [03:02] – Show proper begins; Susan Orlean’s humorous reaction to her fictionalized movie version (03:13)
• [11:21] – Luke introduces Susan Orlean, background on career
• [12:09] – Susan Orlean interview: formative years and writing process
• [18:59] – Orlean’s approach to story structure
• [20:23] – Esquire “American Man at Age 10” story
• [24:04] – On the futility of most celebrity profiles; Tom Hanks anecdote
• [27:35] – “Saturday Night” book project
• [32:09] – The Orchid Thief origin story
• [36:18]/[03:13] – Living through Adaptation’s wild Hollywood retelling
• [39:48] – Why Joyride became a memoir
• [45:20] – Audience memoir titles, show banter
• [51:30] – David Ramirez live performance

Conclusion

This episode provides a vibrant, deeply personal look into Susan Orlean’s career, philosophy of storytelling, and willingness to embrace serendipity and take creative risks—set off by wit, warmth, and self-effacing humor. The conversation ranges from the mechanics of narrative nonfiction, to industry anecdotes, to the strangeness of seeing oneself fictionalized in film. The musical segment and audience interaction keep the hour lively and engaging, making it a rewarding listen for fans of great stories and thoughtful craft alike.