Authentic Christian Communities

Summary

Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd

Episode: Authentic Christian Communities
Release Date: July 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of Living Influence, co-hosts Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd delve into the foundational role of grace in fostering authentic Christian communities. Through an engaging conversation, they explore how understanding and embracing God's view of each individual can transform congregational life, enhance mutual support, and cultivate a thriving environment of love and unity.

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Defining an Environment of Grace

Scott Boyd initiates the discussion by posing a pivotal question: “What creates for you a safe place? Where you're not afraid to be known?” (00:54). This inquiry sets the stage for understanding an "environment of grace," a concept they've emphasized in their teachings for years. An environment of grace, as defined in the episode, is a community where individuals feel secure enough to reveal their true selves without fear of judgment or shame.

Bill and Scott reference 1 Corinthians 8 to illustrate how the early Macedonian churches exemplified grace. Scott highlights, “They no longer, because of God's grace, were defined by their circumstances” (02:10), emphasizing that grace allows a community to transcend individual hardships and foster collective generosity and joy.

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Grace as the Catalyst for Community Unity

The conversation transitions to Acts 4:33, where Scott reads, “Great grace came upon them, and there wasn’t a needy person among them” (03:33). Here, he interprets the absence of need as a manifestation of grace within the community, stating, “Love is the expression of that reality” (03:42). This love, born out of grace, becomes the tangible evidence of a community deeply rooted in divine generosity and mutual care.

Scott further elaborates on how grace transforms relationships within the church. He asks listeners to consider whether they believe that their fellow congregants are “created by God for my best” (14:07) and challenges the prevalent individualistic mindset, likening it to the "John Wayne" ideal of self-sufficiency. The hosts argue that true maturity in the Christian faith involves embracing interdependence, where believers rely on each other’s God-given gifts to grow and fulfill collective purposes.

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The Role of Spiritual Gifts in Building Community

Drawing from Ephesians 4, Scott discusses how spiritual gifts are intended to “equip the saints... so the body may be built up, so that it may live in unity, and so that it may attain the whole measure of the fullness of Christ” (07:05). He underscores that these gifts are not just for personal edification but are meant to foster unity and collective maturity within the church.

Bill shares a poignant personal story about his late wife Grace’s generosity during her battle with pancreatic cancer. Despite her suffering, Grace contributed joyfully to the church’s building project, epitomizing the transformative power of grace in action (06:36). This anecdote serves to illustrate how grace empowers individuals to give beyond their circumstances, thereby strengthening community bonds.

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Mutual Dependence and Trust in Community Growth

The hosts emphasize the importance of mutual dependence, contesting the notion that one can achieve maturity in isolation. Scott questions, “Do I actually believe that those people sitting next to me in church were created by God for my best?” (14:07), urging listeners to foster trust and openness within their communities. Bill echoes this sentiment, reflecting on his own struggles with vulnerability in his early 20s and the liberation he found in trusting others.

The dialogue further explores practical steps to cultivate this mutual trust. Scott mentions a leadership training process called “submitting to each other's strengths” (17:10), which has proven transformative in large church settings by enhancing decision-making and reinforcing the collective strength of the executive team.

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Experiencing vs. Knowing Grace

A critical theme in the episode is the distinction between intellectually understanding grace and actually experiencing it. Bill challenges listeners by asking, “How many of you are good at giving grace to yourself?” (19:29), highlighting the common struggle to extend grace inwardly as opposed to outwardly. Scott reinforces this by stating, “It's not something to know... but to experience” (19:59), advocating for a lived experience of grace that permeates all aspects of community life.

They caution against limiting grace to the realm of salvation alone, arguing that grace should be “so much more pervasive, so much more beneficial to our lives” (20:16). This expansive view of grace encourages believers to integrate it into their daily interactions, thereby enhancing both personal growth and communal unity.

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Embracing Diversity and Complementary Strengths

Bill references Dale Carnegie’s philosophy from “How to Win Friends and Influence People”, where Carnegie believes that everyone possesses something greater than oneself from the moment of meeting (07:49). This perspective aligns with the podcast’s advocacy for recognizing and valuing diverse spiritual gifts within the community.

Scott expands on this by discussing the importance of respecting and utilizing different strengths, citing the Myers-Briggs and Enneagram personality tests as tools to appreciate diversity. However, he emphasizes that the true purpose isn’t merely to identify differences but to “believe something that's already true” (17:10) and to live out that belief by actively supporting one another’s growth.

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Conclusion: Living into the Reality of Grace

Bill and Scott conclude by reinforcing that believing what God says about oneself is intrinsically linked to believing what God says about others (15:19). They advocate for a communal approach to Bible study, encouraging believers to explore God’s purpose together rather than in isolation.

The episode wraps up with a call to action: listeners are urged to reflect on their ability to both give and receive grace, recognizing that experiencing grace requires trust in both God and the community. By fostering an environment where grace is not just known but actively lived out, authentic Christian communities can thrive, embodying the love and unity that God envisions.

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Notable Quotes

• Scott Boyd (00:54): “What creates for you a safe place? Where you're not afraid to be known?”

• Scott Boyd (02:10): “They no longer, because of God's grace, were defined by their circumstances.”

• Scott Boyd (03:42): “Love is the expression of that reality.”

• Scott Boyd (07:05): “Experience the grace that this book talks about.”

• Bill Thrall (19:29): “How many of you think that you're good at giving grace to others?”

• Scott Boyd (14:07): “Do I actually believe that those people sitting next to me in church were created by God for my best?”

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Final Thoughts

Living Influence offers a profound exploration of how grace can transform individual lives and entire communities. By encouraging believers to see and treat each other through the lens of God’s grace, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd provide a blueprint for building authentic, supportive, and unified Christian communities. This episode serves as a compelling reminder that our greatest influence stems from our understanding and application of divine grace within our interpersonal relationships.

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Share the Message: If this episode resonated with you, please consider sharing it with friends or family who might benefit from its powerful insights on building authentic Christian communities through grace.

Transcript

[Bill]

Imagine you're in a congregation in a church, and you look around and you see people. Who are they? And what does God think about them? Welcome to Living Influence. So, Bill, this week we're going to talk about how grace is the basis for our communities.

[Scott]

Yes, we are.

[Bill]

And going back to those people that we look at, that we meet, that we see at church every day, who are they?

[Scott]

Yeah, good question.

[Bill]

And what does God think about him?

[Scott]

Good. Even a better question.

[Bill]

And how does this connect to our community?

[Scott]

Yeah. For years, we have been teaching. It's a phrase, environments of grace. We talk about it a lot. Environments of grace.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

What in the world is an environment of grace? And so one of the things we do when we teach that is we say to our audience, our cohort audience. What creates for you a safe place?

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

What creates for you a place. Listen carefully. Where you're not afraid to be known?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Okay. And so as we spend this time talking about this community of grace, I'd like to read just some quick verses, but they're so important. From First Corinthians, chapter 8, this is what Paul says to them. We want you to know, dear brothers, about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia. That's the key phrase.

[Bill]

The churches.

[Scott]

The churches, for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part. For they gave according to their means, as I even testify, and I know beyond their means of their own free will, begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints. And this not as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then by the will of God to us. A lot of commentary there. But I think the key to that is that the grace of God was given to them. And the point I want to make real quick is this. They no longer, because of God's grace, were defined by their circumstances.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

What's. What defined them was the experience they had with grace. And. And so they were able to give above their means. In fact, he says that they begged to take part. Yeah, but they did something. They. This was not an individual. This was a group of people who were experiencing grace. They gave themselves first to the Lord. And then he says to us, now, as we think about this community of grace, what we're going to be thinking about is, is it possible for grace to so affect us that our relationship for each other becomes more important than our circumstances, whatever they may be?

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

That's an amazing concept. In Acts, chapter four, it says this. That great grace came upon them immediately. It says something to us. As I pause for a minute, I think, grace, great grace come upon them. What would be. What would be the evidence of that grace? If great grace came upon a community, what would be the evidence of that grace? And he says, and great grace came upon them. And there wasn't a needy person among them.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Oh, wait a minute.

[Bill]

So they were meeting each other's needs.

[Scott]

Meeting each other's needs. So the great evidence that grace was upon them.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Was love.

[Dale]

Right?

[Bill]

That's your definition of love.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Love is that reality. I should say this. Love is the expression of that reality, that because of grace, I am no longer who I used to be. And by the way, Scott, and neither are you.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

Remember that audience you asked me about at the very beginning?

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

Who are those people?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Well, just. Let's pause for just a minute. Let's pause for a minute and assume it is the intention of God that a local church be an environment of grace.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

And if it is, then the reality of it is that love will be the evidence that they have experienced grace.

[Dale]

Right.

[Bill]

Love versus good behavior.

[Scott]

Good behavior.

[Bill]

Perfect behavior.

[Scott]

Perfect behavior.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

Or shame.

[Dale]

Right.

[Bill]

Or shame.

[Scott]

Or the other things we've talked about. Right now we're thinking, oh, my gosh, great grace came upon them. Love was the. Out of. And there was not a needy person among them. I'm imagining with you right now, I'm sitting in church and I'm looking around all these people, and I go, maybe it's just the reality of my own experience.

[Dale]

Experience.

[Scott]

But at least the people I've met with, we have almost no understanding of the needs of those with us. Almost none. We kind of attend church.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

We kind of go to church to worship and to hear a message. And we're all facing toward the front. We never look around. But in an environment of grace, what if this were true? That my needs were intentionally being met by you, by others, by you.

[Bill]

Is this kind of like a Scott, William Scott Peck pseudo community versus true community?

[Scott]

Yes. Yeah, it is. A true community.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

A true community that is experiencing grace becomes a community of respect, joy, love. And here's the key going forward and purpose.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

A collective environment where we are experiencing joy. I've learned enough over the years to know there's a lot of people who sit in church who have no joy.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

They have. They have no joy.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And sometimes their theology robs them up their joy, but they have no joy.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Now, how come? What we're searching for here is where is the grace being experienced in the church? Where in spite of my circumstances with joy, I am begging to help others. That's not a common reality, and yet that's what grace does.

[Bill]

That reminds me of when my late wife was in the late stages of her pancreatic cancer and our church was in a building project and we wanted to up what we were giving, and she. It came from her in the midst of, like. I don't. She wasn't even going to see it, and yet she wanted to participate.

[Scott]

Yeah. With joy.

[Bill]

With joy. And it was. There was. It was the grace that let us.

[Scott]

Do that in the midst of her circumstances.

[Dale]

Right, right.

[Scott]

That's grace. Yeah, that's grace.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

In Ephesians, chapter four, it says that God grace is given to each believer according to the measure of Christ's gift in them.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So we're sitting here, we're thinking about this environment of grace, and we're imagining. Wait a minute, I'm still looking at those people in the audience, and I'm imagining. Do I believe, Scott, that you and anyone who's sitting there has actually, because of God's grace, been given a gift for my benefit?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

For my benefit.

[William]

Yeah.

[Bill]

That reminds me of Dale Carnegie in his book how to Win Friends and Influence People. And he says, every person I meet, I believe the moment I meet them, before I even meet them, that they have something in them that exceeds what I have.

[Scott]

Wow.

[Bill]

And I seek to try to find out what that is.

[Scott]

That's beautiful.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

That's what we're talking about.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

It's like, what if I could believe that the great evidence of grace in the community in which I fellowship would be the love we have for each other, that I would not be afraid to be known and my needs would be known. And in my needs being known, you, whoever the you is around me, would intentionally, because of love, move toward me to have my needs met.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And what if. What if these people sitting around me were gifted of God for my benefit? And I was gifted for their benefit?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Way back, Scott, in the 70s, late 70s and through the 80s, there was this phenomenal fat across America discovering your spiritual gifts. And there were books, all kinds of books written about it. And. And, you know, if you tied your left shoe first, you had some kind of a gift. I don't know what it was, but whatever the steps were.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And it passed almost instantly. It was like a fad that lasted a couple years. And during that time, though, you'd go to church. What's your gift? This is my gift. Everybody's discovering their gift, but what they discovered with. Nobody lived in an environment where the gift discovered ever had expression. Nobody lived in a place where God gifted me for your benefit. When do I get to use this gift in me for you?

[Bill]

Does that come from the American ideal of being John Wayne? And we think that when. When I get fully mature, I won't need you.

[Scott]

Ah, yeah, yeah. It's not just John Wayne, but absolutely.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Scott]

It's. It's like even. Even worse than that, Scott. It's. It's this reality that somehow my goal is to become all things for all people at all times, instead of my goal being with humility, recognizing the potential of your gift to me.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

Just sitting for a moment with our audience and saying to them, have you ever paused? Just give yourself permission to think this thought. Do I believe that God has gifted you for my benefit?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And when he talked to them about this gifting, he says he's doing it to equip the saints. And he says in that Ephesians passage, there's three reasons he wants those who are gifted to equip. So number one, he says, so the body may be built up.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

And he says so that the body would live in unity.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And that the body would mature. Now imagine what he's saying to us there. You know what he's teaching us? That if you as a Christian would like to mature, you can't do it without community.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

Whoa, wait a minute. Heresy. No, it's my God. God and I are doing great.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Well, that speaks to me when. Where I was in my early 20s and I felt ashamed if I didn't know something. So I didn't want anybody to know that I didn't know anything. And I kept myself from the benefit that could happen by trusting others with.

[Scott]

What was really true about you.

[Bill]

About me?

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

And so I hit it, and it made it a great struggle to learn that stuff.

[Scott]

Wow. And then what happened is with you or any of us, the hiding robs me of you.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

It's like we create an impossible solution. I need you. The scripture clearly says that as fellow Christians, you and I were gifted of God for each other's maturing. Who am I letting in to my reality?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Who am I letting. Help me grow up.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Who. Who do I honestly believe I can depend upon for my best?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And then he says, another reason that he's giving us all these gifts. So that we would experience unity. Unity. A oneness together. Yeah, a oneness together. Early on in our, in our ministry life, as I've said to many people, I. I believe I was experiencing grace in a community before I ever began to codify what I understand about grace.

[William]

Y.

[Scott]

And what was true in that community in the early days is that we were experiencing love.

[Bill]

Love for each other.

[Scott]

For each other. And listen to this. And we weren't afraid of being honest who we were. So his goal in our mutual gifting is so that we will mature, have unity and that will be built up. Built up for. What's the goal of being built up? So that we together can enter into the purposes of God for our lives.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

Why do we need to mature so we can live together into the purposes of God for our life. We're going to talk about it in our next section, but I want to say it here. The Lord has left us as Christians with a huge assignment to go into all the world. That's, that's about as. It's about as big assignment as you ever get.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But you know, he wants us to do that together. He wants us in unity because of his grace. So I have to pause for a minute myself and I have to ask the question. Do I actually believe that those people sitting next to me in church were created by God for my best? Do I actually believe that? Can I live into that reality?

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

You talked about the John Wayne model. It's like, yeah, Scott, if, if that's my model, I don't need you.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

All I have is something to give to you.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

You know, and, and earlier on we've already talked about Jesus's command to love one another. And I teasely say to a lot of people, do you know, if we're to love one another, some of us have got to learn to become love ease.

[William]

Yeah.

[Bill]

The ones that loved. So even in our most mature state, I'm going to have needs.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

And, and I'm going to be. Need to be okay with that.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Because as I let someone love me, they get to love me.

[Scott]

Amen.

[Bill]

And, and that's, that's the unity that begins to happen.

[Scott]

It is God. I like those words you use in my most mature state.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

I am actually living dependent on you and others.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

It's the immature who believe they can live a solo existence with just God in them.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And the reason grace is the basis for our community is believing what God says about me is the first step to believing what God says is about you.

[Scott]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Bill]

When I begin to, to believe it's true for me, I can't help but not believe it's true for you.

[Scott]

Right, thank you. That's, that's like a critical statement.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Because so often in our experience we, we, we have kind of learned to read this New Testament as if it was all written to me.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

There are some places where it was written. He's written to individuals like Timothy and Titus, but most of the time everything he's written was written to a community.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So. So we read our Bibles to discover what God wants to say to me, what we should be doing. We should be reading our Bibles together to discover what God wants for us.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

What if, what if this miracle of grace that I am experiencing and discovering, as you just said, who God says I am.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Is the same purpose God has for you.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And what if the evidence that it's true of us is that we love one another?

[Bill]

I think this is where this has to be talked about is like in a business when you and everybody does this, they go take these personality tests to find out how I am and how you are and, and how we're all different from one another. And so there's like the Myers Brig test. And if you do that, there's basically four groups of people in that test. You know, there's others that have nine, like the Enneagram, but in the, in the group of four, there's people that their greatest skill is to notice what is and to do what's right. And then there's other people that their greatest skill is to do what works and to notice what is. And then there's other people that want to do what works and ask the question what if. And then there are those people that, I mean, so it's a two by two. And the truth is you need all of those people.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

And God made us different for a reason. Because we need people that notice what notice what is. We need people that notice what works. We need people that ask the question, what if, when I've done those and participated in those in my work settings, if I use it to begin to appreciate the strengths in all of my fellow co workers and how they're different from me, it has a much greater effect than just to be able to, oh, I know you're this.

[Scott]

Exactly. Oh man, I wish you could repeat all of that just to make that point. It's not to discover something, it's to in fact believe something that's already true. And how do I live out of that reality for your benefit, Scott. And how do I let you live out of your reality for my benefit? Being mutually dependent. As part of our leadership training, we take leaders through a process called submitting to each other's strengths. And it's a great process because it helps build trust, but submitting to each other's strengths. I was working with a large church, and the pastor asked his executive team to do this exercise with me. And his reason was. His reason was, I don't think as a senior pastor, I should be making solo decisions. I think we, as an executive team, should be making the decisions. But how do we make the decisions together if we don't trust each other's strengths? It changed their church. It's a mega church.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

It changed their church. So this miracle of grace given to us to gift us with love and a gift for the benefit of others. So I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, what is it that I need to experience? It's called grace.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

So I can depreciate you.

[Bill]

Another question I'll ask with a group of people is, how many of you think that you're good at giving grace to others? Everybody raise their hand. Oh, I can do that. And then I ask, how many of you are good at giving grace to yourself? And the hands go down.

[Scott]

Exactly.

[Bill]

And then I like to say, so what is it you think you're giving if you never receive it?

[Dale]

Right.

[Bill]

If you don't have it. And that's what triggered me when you said experience. Because it's not something to know.

[Scott]

No, it's not. No. Let's repeat that. Throughout our time together, one of our main goals is to. To not just know this book talks about grace.

[William]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But to experience the grace that this book talks about.

[Dale]

Right.

[Scott]

And without trust of God and others, I'll never experience this grace.

[William]

Yeah.

[Bill]

The thing we'd like to say is don't limit grace to just salvation.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

Grace is so much more pervasive, so much more benefit to our lives.

[Scott]

Absolutely.

[Bill]

If we believe it's for our life.

[Scott]

For our living, for our community, for our community and for our future.

[Bill]

That's right. Amen. Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.