Discovering the Lies Hidden in Our Stories

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd Episode Title: Discovering the Lies Hidden in Our Stories
Release Date: October 30, 2025
Hosts: Bill Thrall & Scott Boyd

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Episode Overview

In this intimate episode, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd explore how the lies embedded in our personal stories shape our identities, relationships, and influence. They address how discovering and resolving these lies is vital to embracing who God says we are. Through candid personal stories, scriptural reflection, and practical wisdom, the hosts encourage listeners to pursue truth and grace, both for themselves and in their interactions with others.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Critical Role of Permission in Storytelling

• Bill emphasizes the importance of receiving permission before engaging deeply with another’s story. Listening is an earned privilege, not a right.

  • “You have no access to their story without their permission. The key is to listen for permission.” (00:47)
  • Asking questions gently opens doors and signals respect, rather than assuming insight or access.

• Scott clarifies that even when people share their stories, it doesn’t automatically grant you authority to interpret or “fix” them.

  • “Don’t assume access…” (01:23)

Notable Quote

“Whatever I want to tell you is never as important as what you need to hear. And I'll never, ever, without permission, hear what you need.”
– Bill Thrall (01:27)

2. Identifying Lies Within Our Stories

• Questions are powerful tools to help people reflect and discover the lies hidden in their stories.

  • “The key is they begin to discover the lie in the story they told me.” (03:14)

• Bill contrasts permission and advice-giving:

  • “You can shut people down really quick when you don't have permission.” (05:00)

Notable Quote

“How many of you like somebody to fix you?... None of us like to be fixed.”
– Bill Thrall (05:09)

3. Personal Reflections: Shame, Hiding, and Learning to Ask for Help

• Scott shares a formative experience about shame and the belief that admitting ignorance is a weakness. Learning to ask for help unlocked growth for him:
  • “I could ask somebody… It began to unlock in me… I could let someone teach me.” (06:38)
  • This realization changed his posture toward people and helped him be more open and receptive.

Notable Quote

“That moment you decide to become a learner… The reason you pursued knowledge was not to be puffed up…but to honor the way God designed you.”
– Bill Thrall (07:37)

4. The Dangers of a False Reality

• Bill recounts his upbringing in poverty and how his family created exaggerated stories as coping mechanisms, which led him into a “false reality.”
  • “It was a false reality. And then 25 years ago, I’m fishing with that same brother, Art… I said to him…what did you do during the war? He said, ‘I was in supplies’… The tragedy of the exaggerated story, was it created in me a false reality.” (11:41–12:14)
  • The habit of embellishing stories eroded Bill’s ability to discern truth, haunting him into adulthood.

Notable Quote

“When you have a false reality, you're not only not sure who you are, you're not sure what is truth. That was a haunt in me, a real haunt in me.”
– Bill Thrall (12:14)

5. The Transformational Power of Truth and Trust in God

• Bill’s journey to Christian faith gave him a new, truthful foundation:
  • “By God's grace, when I became a Christian…I, for the first time, literally got in touch with the profound power of truth.” (13:12)
  • “A reality grounded in truth and grace. It has profoundly affected my life.” (13:54)

Notable Quote

“I learned to trust a new reality…A reality grounded in truth and grace.”
– Bill Thrall (13:54)

6. Shame, Approval, and Fatherhood Wounds

• Scott shares how losing his father shaped his self-worth and tendency to seek approval through performance. He references Donald Miller’s “To Own a Dragon” to explain how absence of affirmation from a father leads to mistrust of authority and a compulsion to earn approval through doing.
  • “I would only be liked based on what I did… I had a tremendous insecurity and shyness in me.” (15:15)
  • Observing his late wife’s natural confidence challenged these beliefs and helped him see alternative ways of engaging with people.

Notable Quote

“If you never had a good dad, then you end up growing up in life mistrusting all authority. Because dads represent authority.”
– Scott Boyd (16:28)

7. Trust and Influence

• The practice of telling and hearing each other’s stories—beginning with permission—can break the power of lies and promote genuine connection, healing, and influence.
  • “[Trust] is the single greatest operative word in all relationships.” (19:27)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• Permission Principle:
  “You have no access to their story without their permission. The key is to listen for permission.” (00:47 – Bill Thrall)
• On “Fixing” People:
  “None of us like to be fixed.” (05:17 – Bill Thrall)
• Breakthrough on Asking for Help:
  “I could ask somebody…It began to unlock in me…” (06:38 – Scott Boyd)
• False Reality & Truth:
  “When you have a false reality, you’re not only not sure who you are, you’re not sure what is truth.” (12:14 – Bill Thrall)
• Grounded in Grace:
  “A reality grounded in truth and grace. It has profoundly affected my life.” (13:54 – Bill Thrall)
• Fatherhood Wounds:
  “If you never had a good dad, then you end up growing up in life mistrusting all authority.” (16:28 – Scott Boyd)
• On Trust:
  “Trust is the single greatest operative word in all relationships.” (19:27 – Bill Thrall)
• Encouragement to Share Stories:
  “Are you able, with one other person, to tell your story? And…are you willing to hear theirs?” (20:16 – Bill Thrall)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:47 – 03:14: The principle of permission in storytelling
• 05:00 – 06:38: Shame, help-seeking, and the problem with being “fixed”
• 11:08 – 13:54: Bill’s story of family lies, discovering truth, and its impact
• 15:09 – 18:00: Scott’s story on earning approval, shyness, and fatherhood loss
• 19:27 – 20:40: The power of trust, sharing stories, and practical application

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Conclusion

Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd underscore that discovering the lies that shape our lives—and inviting God’s truth in—is a lifelong but freeing journey. Key to this process is the willingness to be vulnerable, to listen with permission, and to build trust. Their stories and reflections offer hope that anyone can step into a new, grace-filled reality by exchanging lies for the truth of who God says they are and by fostering that same influence in others.

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For listeners:
Reflect on your own story—what lies might you be carrying, and what truth is waiting to set you free? Who could you share your story with, or listen to, this week?

Transcript

[A]

Are you discovering solutions to the lies that you've believed were true about you? Welcome to Living Influence. It's an interesting topic. It's like, well, how do we discover solutions to our. Actually, even. How do we discover the lies?

[B]

Absolutely. Thank you. I think it's kind of an interesting dynamic. I can't get past how critical it is to discover others, and I'll say it this way, who are at least willing to hear our stories. You know, how we discover our lies in the stories of our life.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's how we discover them.

[A]

So you mean you don't discover them by, like, asking the question like we did last week?

[B]

Right.

[A]

That was lies that you. Exactly.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That doesn't help.

[B]

I would never do that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Except I did it with you last. It's a couple really important principles here. When someone chooses to share their story with you, you have no access to their story without their permission. The key is to listen for permission.

[A]

Help me with that. Yeah. I have no access to their story without their permission. Now I'm thinking they wouldn't even tell me their story. But. But you're saying it's another step.

[B]

They're telling you their story.

[A]

They're telling you the story.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But they've not given you access to it. Right.

[B]

Don't assume access.

[A]

Don't assume access. So what does that mean?

[B]

It's an interesting dynamic. It's like this. Whatever I want to tell you is never as important as what you need to hear. And I'll never, ever, without permission, hear what you need. So it's an earned dynamic in this dynamic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So rather than you telling your story or all these people that visit me telling me their stories, what I do is I ask questions. That's a key way to gain permission, is to ask questions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, what I've discovered in asking questions, I can watch their body language. I don't want to go there with this guy or. This is what I meant. And now I've got access. There's a lot of people, a lot of leaders assume that because they know they have a right to tell. No, no. The right to tell is earned through permission, not through the level of knowledge. This gets so confusing with people is they're afraid to tell their story because they think the other person knows more than they know. And they're going to be put down and they're going to be confused and they're going to. Because they're already judging. They've already been judged. You're not the first person they ever told a story. To. So they've already been judged. It's amazing to watch these people that I spend time with tell their story. I ask questions, I gain access to story seven, and all of a sudden, they begin to unfold more. But that's not the key. The key is they begin to discover the lie in the story they told me.

[A]

Through your questions.

[B]

Through my questions, yeah. Because questions gain access.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This principle is very interesting to me, this principle of permission. In Revelation, chapter three, the church of Laodicea.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Church of Laodicea, says, we have everything we want. We have need of nothing. That's their declaration of themselves, we have everything we want. We have need of nothing. And Jesus says, you missed it just a little bit. You're blind, naked, miserable and pitiful. They just missed it a little bit. But he does an interesting thing. He does not address their misunderstanding of themselves. What he does is he invites them to a meal. He says, behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hear this. Permission. If anyone.

[A]

That's where that scripture is exactly. Right after the root, that's where it is.

[B]

He says, if anyone lets me in.

[A]

I'll dine with them. And they will.

[B]

I'll dine with me. What was he saying? You as a person are so important to me that I know how screwed up you are, but you as a person are so important to me. I'd like to have dinner with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, that person doesn't yet know how screwed up they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I would bet you, having dinner with Jesus, they'd gain some insights. But. But the key is what he was teaching was the principle of permission. I just want to get that truth on the table, so to speak.

[A]

Right. You can shut people down really quick.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

When you don't have permission.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And you come in with advice or you come in with.

[B]

I ask an audience. How many of you like somebody to fix you? Everybody who likes to be fixed, please raise your hand.

[A]

Put their hand.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. None of us like to be fixed. No. Yeah.

[B]

And most of us who don't want to be fixed don't even understand our need to be fixed. But loved can answer that again. Tell us one of your stories, Scott.

[A]

One of the interesting things that happened to me going into my. Really into my 20s and 30s, I. I would feel shame when I didn't know something. And so if there was something that I thought I should know, but I knew I didn't, but it seemed like other people did, I would hide there again, and I would have to go try to figure it out on my own. It made me good at figuring things out. Sure, I could do things that I didn't know how to do because I was good at figuring them out. But at one point, I was with a friend of mine, and we're talking about something that we both didn't know. And he goes, oh, I know so. And so we could ask him. He could tell us how to do it. And I was just. I mean, this is, like, crazy that it felt this way to me, but I was, like, shocked and embarrassed. Like, what you mean? It's just that easy? You could ask somebody. No, I believe that it wasn't on my radar.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

It began to unlock in me. Oh, my gosh. I could ask somebody. Like, we started the podcast. Have you found solutions? I could let someone teach me.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And so it changed my posture with people, and it became okay to go. I. I don't understand what you're saying. Or could you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What does it look like? Or how did. How did you do this? Those kind of things.

[B]

Your desire to know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was incredible. That's a good thing. Yeah, That's a good thing. Your pursuit to know should never be minimized as a solution to the problem. What you did, by God's grace, that friend, quickened you to understand. Hey, there's other people out there. Why don't I ask them? That moment you decide to become a learner.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

The reason you pursued knowledge was not to be puffed up. Look at how much I know. But to honor the way God designed you was to figure things out. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, Scott, you do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In. In more than one realm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You do that in your business.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you do that. I watch you.

[A]

Yeah. I'm with you. You're watching my golf game.

[B]

I watch it.

[A]

I'm trying to figure that out.

[B]

Do you have to bring it up? I knew you were going to bring it up. I knew that was going to happen. I was.

[A]

I really didn't intend it that way. No. I really wanted to bring it up.

[B]

Why don't you tell them how good you played yesterday? Just mention it to him. Go.

[A]

Played one of my best rounds ever. Yesterday.

[B]

Did Bill.

[A]

Bill wasn't on top of his game yesterday.

[B]

Okay, thank you very much. Okay, now let's go on. But. But really that. That dynamic, Scott, is when you discover.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You do an amazing, wonderful thing, you transfer it to as many people as you can for their benefit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what you do. Not with knowledge. It doesn't puff you up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. What knowledge does is knowledge gives you access.

[A]

It has become so exciting what God's done through me.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And in me.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And I want that for others.

[B]

Of course you do.

[A]

And I don't want to. I don't think or profess to know how he's going to do that with them, but. But I don't. I do know he does that with everyone if. If we let him.

[B]

Good. And what you just shared right now was knowledge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You learned something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's benefiting a lot of people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So that as we. As we think about our stories and we think about the lies in our stories, our opportunity is to discover God's resolution and solution to those lies. There are lots of people that I meet who have tragically lived in a lie for so many years, they actually believe it's who they are. And to get broken out of the bondage of that lie. When I was growing up, my mother lived with six children in a converted garage in Milwaukee. Yeah, it was really hard. But you know what our family solution was, is we created a false reality.

[A]

Tell me more about what that is.

[B]

We made up stories about our family. I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Significant stories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, everybody in my family that was older than me was some kind of a hero. I told all my friends, you know, they did some things, but never to the degree. My older sister was the master at telling stories. Telling exaggerated stories. I mean, she told stories about. Embarrassed, almost say. I mean, somewhere along the line she got this idea that my mother not only had nine children, but she had nine miscarriages. So we all believed that never happened, but it was just that kind of thing. But the one you've heard me tell before is my brother art. I have two brothers that were in World War II. Art, the younger of the two, was drafted in 1943, six weeks out of high school.

[A]

Yeah. Wow.

[B]

And he went to. Went to war. My other brother Irv was already in the war, and Helen, my sister, because we'd seen too many John Wayne movies, Helen convinced all of us that my brother Art had. Was fighting in Belgium and Germany and France, and that he'd been captured and that he. Fruit got free. I told this all the way through my life. I told it all the way through high school. My. My stories, they were exaggerated. It was a false reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then 25 years ago, I'm fishing with that same brother, Art, and I said to him, art, you never talk about what did you do during the war? He said, well, I was in supplies what does that mean? Well, we. We were about a mile or two. We could hear the cannons. But I said, did you ever have any action? No. No, I never fired my gun. Oh. And he says to me, why do you ask? And I said to him, it doesn't matter.

[A]

You never told him it?

[B]

Never told. It doesn't matter.

[A]

He thought he was a war hero and that he.

[B]

But the tragedy of the exaggerated story, was it created in me a false reality. See, I did not know what was true. I did not know if you told a story, was it true. I honestly struggled in school, when I was in high school because I wasn't sure the teachers were telling me the truth. See, because. Because I had this overwhelming sense of a false reality. It may sound exaggerated, but it's not. When you have a false reality, you're not only not sure who you are, you're not sure what is truth. That was a haunt in me, a real haunted me. So by God's grace, when I became a Christian and I trusted Jesus Christ, those are key words that I trusted Jesus Christ, I, for the first time, literally got in touch with the profound power of truth. And I don't say this because I'm super godly, but. But, Scott, I've been a Christian over 60 years, almost 70 years. Do you know, I have never doubted my salvation, ever. Never had that. I meet lots and lots of people who do that. I've never doubted it.

[A]

Yeah. That.

[B]

That introduction to me to truth was so profound.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That. And then from that, as I trusted him with my salvation and I learned to trust him with my life, I learned to trust him with grace. Then I began to trust a new reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A reality grounded in truth and grace. It has profoundly affected my life. Yeah. And by God's grace, I think the lives of many others.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, one of the reasons we're doing this storytelling is because we want our audiences to realize that we're just like them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't. I don't have any sense of being some kind of a super saint. I'm a man who has struggled with reality and in the process of discovering it, and that's what we really want for those who we're sharing with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's. We all have a story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's. They're profound stories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But sometimes in the reality of our story, there are lies that shame uses to define us. Is it possible to discover a new reality? The answer is yes. And in that new reality, is it possible for us to say, scott, I know what it's like to believe a lie. I know the pain that I carried for a long time in my false reality.

[A]

Yeah. I had this other lie that I believed, and it was a lie that was connected to doing. And so I would only be liked based on what I did. Yeah. I would only be liked on if I was funny, if I was loving, if I was smart, if I was interesting. I had a tremendous insecurity and shyness in me. I mean, I think you can go back to the same thing of me lying about my father being on a business trip.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There was a book Donald Miller wrote called To Own a Dragon.

[B]

Oh, tell us about that. Yeah.

[A]

And in To Own a Dragon, Donald Miller portrayed fathers as if they were dragons to a little kid. So you're a little kid and you look at your dad's shoes and they're this huge, and he's this big man. He's got this booming voice. But if you owned a dragon, if you had a dad, you also knew that he loved you. You learned that from a dad that's engaged. If you didn't have a dad, they all looked like dragons, and you never learned that you could trust them. Wow. And so in the book, he then talks about if you never had a good dad, then you end up growing up in life mistrusting all authority. Because dads represent authority.

[B]

Absolutely. Well said.

[A]

And the statistics that he had of people in prison, people that committed rape, people that have committed serious crimes, the statistics were devastatingly slanted to the people that didn't have dads. I found that I didn't trust authority. I was a skeptic of everything. I would fight things. In my business, there'd be these things that the specifications would require you to do. Label the valves and then mark what each valve is for. And I would know. Nobody's ever going to look at this. Why are we doing this? You know, I mean, I would fight it. And then I had this really great gal working for me that was really good on details and like, okay, well, let's do it in, like four hours. It was done. I'm fighting this thing for days, and it's like, it's not even. Not even four hours. It took me 30 minutes. And the guy in the field 30 minutes and we were done. And it's like just. It's like, just, wow. Just trust this authority.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this doing thing, I think this doing thing. One of the things that's. I lost track of my path here. But one of the things into Own a Dragon was if you'd Never been affirmed by a father.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You could only be affirmed by what you did.

[B]

Tied right together.

[A]

I was desperate to be affirmed. And I thought, people will only like me based on I got to do something. And. And so I get married to this woman, Bev, and she is so confident and so strong. She's a strong lady. And I was watching her interact with people, like, people we would meet, and she would assume after meeting them that they loved her. They like me. It's like. And I just would be amazed. It's like if they didn't swing a baseball bat at her head. She just believed they liked him, liked her. And you know what? They did.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And I began to wait. There's a disconnect. This is connected, this believing in people and believing that people liked me. And it became a solution for me.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And just seeing that, yeah, it's very.

[B]

Powerful, Scott, that whole dynamic of how the loss of your father in the fifth grade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Affected so deeply. Affected in ways you didn't even understand.

[A]

Not until way later.

[B]

But again, by God's grace, in the discovery, you were willing to trust.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trust is the single greatest operative word in all relationships.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in those moments, as a boy with no father to trust, you formed your own identity.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And you've grown into a new reality, because if you're trusting God and loving the message of grace, etc.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's what I want to be able to say to anybody that's talking, listening to us right now or watching.

[A]

Us, how are we going to land this plane here?

[B]

Yeah. Have you considered that you are able with one other person, to tell your story?

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[B]

And are you able in telling your story? Are you willing to hear theirs? And if the two of you are willing to hear each other's stories, search for their permission to speak into the story. And I don't make many promises, but I can promise you it'll change who you are.

[A]

We love this message of grace and of influence. We appreciate you being here, and we'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.