Grace Began Within the Trinity

Summary

Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
Episode: Grace Began Within the Trinity
Release Date: June 19, 2025

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Living Influence, co-hosts Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd delve into the profound concept that grace originated within the Trinity before creation. Joined by guest John Lynch, the conversation explores the expansiveness of grace, its biblical foundations, and its transformative power in believers' lives.

Grace in the Trinity

Bill Thrall opens the discussion by challenging the common misconception that grace was merely a response to sin. He states, “[Grace] began in the Trinity before creation” (00:03). This foundational belief sets the stage for understanding grace as an intrinsic aspect of God's very nature.

Scott Boyd echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the scriptural basis for their conversation. He references John 1:14, highlighting the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among humanity, fully embodying “grace and truth.” Scott remarks, “Jesus came to earth and brought grace with him” (01:09), underscoring that grace was not an addition but an inherent quality of Christ's incarnation.

The Incarnation and Grace

The hosts discuss the significance of Jesus bringing grace directly from the divine realm. Scott articulates, “He didn’t pick it up on his way here. It was the only realm in which he ever lived” (01:44). This emphasizes that Jesus’ earthly life was a manifestation of divine grace, adding depth to His redemptive work.

Contrast Between Law and Grace

A pivotal part of the conversation contrasts the law given through Moses with the grace brought by Jesus. Scott explains, “The law given by Moses never, ever, ever could meet man’s need” (05:09). He further clarifies, “The law made man, revealed man is unrighteous” (06:13), highlighting the law's role in showcasing human shortcomings rather than providing a solution.

In contrast, Scott praises Jesus for bringing “grace and truth” (05:26), which not only addresses the problem of sin but offers a transformative relationship with God. He states, “No matter how deep the depth of my sin, his grace can go deeper” (04:29), illustrating the boundless nature of divine grace.

Jesus as the Great High Priest

Drawing from Hebrews 4:14-16, Bill Thrall introduces the role of Jesus as the great high priest who empathizes with human weaknesses yet remains sinless. This theme is further explored with Scott emphasizing the invitation to "draw near to the throne of grace" (09:32). This passage reinforces the accessibility and mercy available to believers, encouraging a personal and intimate relationship with God.

Personal Reflections on Grace

The hosts share personal anecdotes reflecting the impact of grace in their lives. Bill speaks about the balance between acknowledging life's challenges and embracing God's promise to be present in times of need. He recalls his loss of his first wife to cancer, affirming that “grace is for today and for the rest of eternity” (12:00), which brings hope amidst suffering.

Scott reflects on how understanding grace has transformed his approach to prayer and reliance on God. He articulates a desire to fully embrace God's reality and grace, stating, “Teach me to receive your best” (14:30). This personal transformation underscores the practical application of theological concepts discussed.

The Transformative Power of Grace

A significant portion of the episode highlights how grace not only forgives but also empowers believers to live out their faith authentically. Scott explains, “He makes me righteous because of his truth about me” (07:52), illustrating the transformative effect of grace that moves individuals from mere compliance with the law to living out love and righteousness.

Bill reinforces this by mentioning the promise of restoration and strength from God: “[After you have suffered] … He will restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you” (15:37). This assurance of divine support encourages believers to persevere through life’s difficulties.

Invitation to the Realm of Grace

The discussion culminates in an invitation to engage deeply with the realm of grace. Scott passionately invites listeners to imagine God inviting them into His realm of grace, where they can find mercy and help in their times of need. He states, “He is inviting Bill, Scott, and anyone who’s listening into the realm in which he lives” (18:04), emphasizing the personal and communal aspect of grace.

Bill concludes by encouraging listeners to embrace this invitation, suggesting that becoming part of the Trinity’s grace is both miraculous and life-changing. He remarks, “And he invites us to be a part of the Trinity” (18:38), highlighting the ultimate union with God that grace facilitates.

Key Takeaways

• Grace Originates Within the Trinity: Grace is not a mere reaction to sin but is fundamental to God's nature and existence within the Trinity.

• Jesus as the Embodiment of Grace and Truth: The incarnation of Jesus showcases grace in action, offering a relational and transformative experience for believers.

• Law vs. Grace: While the law reveals human unrighteousness, grace provides the necessary provision for redemption and sanctification.

• Access to the Throne of Grace: Believers are invited to approach God confidently, finding mercy and strength in their times of need.

• Personal Transformation Through Grace: Embracing grace leads to a profound transformation, moving individuals from sin to righteousness through the truth of Christ.

Conclusion

In Grace Began Within the Trinity, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd, alongside John Lynch, provide a deep and thoughtful exploration of grace’s divine origin and its vital role in the Christian faith. Through scripture, personal reflection, and theological insights, the episode invites listeners to understand and embrace the boundless grace that God offers, transforming their lives and influence in the world.

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Timestamp Reference:

• 00:03: Bill Thrall introduces the concept that grace began in the Trinity.
• 00:27: Scott Boyd sets the stage for discussing grace within the Trinity.
• 01:09: Discussion on the Word becoming flesh and embodying grace and truth.
• 01:44: Scott emphasizes that grace was inherent in Jesus’ incarnation.
• 04:29: Scott speaks on the depth of grace surpassing human sinfulness.
• 05:09: Contrast between Moses' law and Jesus' grace and truth.
• 06:13: The law reveals human unrighteousness.
• 07:52: Scott discusses how Jesus makes believers righteous through His truth.
• 09:32: Introduction to Hebrews 4:14-16 and the role of Jesus as high priest.
• 12:00: Bill shares personal experiences of grace during suffering.
• 14:30: Scott's transformation through understanding grace.
• 15:37: Promise of restoration and strength from God.
• 18:04: Invitation to engage with the realm of grace.
• 18:38: Bill concludes with the invitation to be part of the Trinity’s grace.

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Transcript

[Bill Thrall]

Some people think grace was invented because of sin. We actually believe grace began in the Trinity before creation. Welcome to Living Influence, Bill. We're continuing to talk about this expansiveness of grace, the breadth of grace. We're going to start in the Scripture, right?

[Scott]

Yeah. Because we're going to talk today about grace began within the Trinity. Let's see if we can discover that.

[Bill Thrall]

Gospel of John 1:14. And the word became flesh and. And dwelt among us. And we have seen his glory. Glory as the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness about him and cried out. This was he of whom I said, he who comes after me, ranks before me because he was before me. And from his fullness we have all received grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

[Scott]

Wow. Such an amazing portion of God's Word, like they all are. But that one I love.

[Bill Thrall]

John 1.

[Scott]

Amen. It has just the foundations of our faith in it. And as we think about grace together, we're using the terminology that grace began within the Trinity. So this declaration that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, the story of the incarnate incarnation of Jesus, it tells us something. He came full of grace. I love to think of it this way. Jesus came to earth and brought grace with him.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He didn't pick it up on his way here. It was the only realm in which he ever lived. It adds a dimension to the awesomeness of what Christ has done for me.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

It's one thing, and I can't grasp it fully at all, that God became a man. But the God who became a man brought with him the environment in which he lived.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

To me.

[Bill Thrall]

So the environment in which he lived. You have another statement you make about that? Grace is how God treats God.

[Scott]

Absolutely. Say it again. Just say it again.

[Bill Thrall]

Grace is how God treats God.

[Scott]

God gives God his best.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Wow. Wait, you're blowing my mind again. Stop here. This is how awesome the story of the gospel is, Scott. The story of the gospel is the God of all gods brought to me his grace and truth. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. We preach it all the time. I preached it half of my life when I was all about evangelism. Because I believe it. I believe it. But could I believe this? Could I? Here's. Here's the so what to me so far, even on this thing. So he came full of grace. So what? So what? Listen, if he doesn't come full of grace, the truth will Destroy me.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Because it'll condemn me.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

And it'll condemn me without hope. But he brings grace because in his grace, he can handle all the stuff that condemns me. Not only can he handle it, he took it upon him and took the place of my condemnation. That's grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And from his fullness, from the fullness of.

[John Lynch]

Of.

[Scott]

Of the grace of his person, we have all received. John adds these. It's a little play on words, he says. And. And from his fullness, we have all received grace upon grace. It's like. Well, wait, wait a minute. A little bit later in one of these weeks, we're going to talk about this. Grace is a amazing gift of God. And Paul tries to capture it when he says, and much more. And much more.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

And. And, and that's what he's saying here. Grace upon grace. This is so amazing. No matter how deep the depth of my sin, his grace can go deeper.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

That's grace upon grace. No matter how far humanity thinks they have wandered from God.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

His grace upon grace is there for us. John, writing to a specific audience, mostly Jews, he says. Now let me remind you of something. We all know this. The law came through Moses. Oh, yeah, we all know that. Raise your hand. Yeah, we all got. Yeah, but listen to this. You may not have gotten this yet. A one greater than Moses brought something beyond the law.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He brought grace and truth.

[Bill Thrall]

Which is interesting that they do that because so often I was taught grace and truth was grace and law.

[Scott]

Right. Thank you for that. Say that again.

[Bill Thrall]

I was taught that grace and truth meant grace and law. And there was this mysterious. And that we can't understand, but we just have to accept something that we can't understand. And maybe we can't understand grace either, but it was like it was grace and law. But this makes a distinction. Moses brought the law. Jesus brought grace and truth.

[Scott]

Right. Thank you, Scott. That's a great gu. A really good gu. Because here's the dynamic. The law given by Moses never, ever, ever could meet man's need.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

In fact, what it really did is show man's lack.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

Because the law made man, revealed man is unrighteous. So we have. And I love what you just did. Because when we mistake truth for law, we make the assumption. A bad assumption.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

That the law. It was. Paul teaches in Romans. The law is good. It's always good. It's not. The law is not the problem. The law is the inability of humanity to appreciate the truth that is in the law. Because we can't live it.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But Jesus does something. He personifies truth and just kind of sneaking ahead a few weeks. But let me just throw this out for us to think about. Do you know what the truth of Jesus does? It transforms me.

[Bill Thrall]

From a sinner into.

[Scott]

A saint, from a sinner to a saint. And you know what the evidence of my saintliness is? Love. You're not sinning less.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

The law gave man a challenge. Stop doing it.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And humanity said, of course we will say thank you. Thank you, God. We wouldn't have thought of it otherwise, but now let's just say I can't do it. I'll just stop doing it.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

No, what the law said was, you can't stop doing it.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Why can't you stop doing it? Because there's something wrong with you. But you know what the truth of Jesus Christ does? It makes the something wrong with me right here. This is mind boggling to me. He makes me righteous because of his truth about me.

[Bill Thrall]

He makes you righteous because of his.

[Scott]

Truth, because of his truth about what he has done at a place called Calvary. That can transform me, the sinner who could not keep the law, into a righteous one. This is Galatians into a righteous one who in loving, is keeping the law.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

See a little play there. The sinner who could not keep the law is transformed into a saint who loves and in the process of loving, keeps the law.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

Huh? That's an amazing phenomenon.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And so as we think about, what did Jesus do? He brought. I'm going to say it probably every week, as long as we do this. God.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

God teach me to trust you as the initiator, so that when you bring grace to me, I can receive it.

[Bill Thrall]

So Hebrews 4, 14, 16. It's about Jesus, the great high priest. So since then, we have a great high priest who's passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God. Let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence, draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

[Scott]

Amen. Yeah. Just on this theme now, grace began in the Trinity. Look what he's doing. The high priest is inviting us.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Into the throne of grace. Maybe. Maybe we all thought about this. Maybe some of us haven't. The throne of grace is the seat where God reigns.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

God reigns in grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Jesus came full of grace. He reigns in grace. And we can clap our hands and say, thank you, God.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

But let's not catch what he's saying. He's inviting Scott, you and me, into the throne of grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He's inviting us into the realm in which he lives. Where he reigns.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And he does this beautiful thing, reminding us back to John, chapter one, the Incarnation. He reminds us that we have a high priest, but he can sympathize with our condition.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

Because he experienced it, but without sin.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So? So it's like sometimes you and I meet with people, and sometimes people. Why didn't God do something about this? Or why. Why wasn't God here when I needed Him? Wait, look, look, you're missing something.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

There is nothing you can experience that he hasn't.

[John Lynch]

Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Scott]

If that's true, then. Then he understands me. That's the point. Not only understands you, he's with you. And he says that near to the throne of grace for you, there you will find mercy and help. And I love this. In your time of need.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Wait, wait, wait. Now you're screwing with me. Are you telling me that the throne of grace, where Jesus dwelt with the Father.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Is where he's inviting me and telling me in his invitation that if I would choose to go there, mercy and help in my need, his resolution. Remember last time we talked, we talked about this God of love, this God of grace able to meet my needs.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And again, guess what he's doing here with us?

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He's saying, bill Thrall, I have an invitation for you. Would you like to come into. Into my realm?

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And I'll meet you there. And, oh, by the way, I understand your needs because I love you. And. And I'll meet you there. And I'll help you because I'm full of grace. God's not changing his theme. What he's doing us is he's inviting us into it.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Bill Thrall]

Sometimes I can be in a church service and the songs can be a little too Pollyannish for me or a little too idealistic.

[Scott]

Maybe.

[Bill Thrall]

Maybe would be another word that would work where it's like, God's gonna take care of everything and my life is gonna be great, but sometimes your life isn't great.

[Scott]

Amen.

[Bill Thrall]

When I'm talking to people and talking to people about grace, I'll say, well, God promised us, you know, three things for sure. Thorns, thistles and trouble. He promised a lot of other things, too, but. But he does promise to Be with us in our time, in our time of need. And I know that to be true. I know that when I lost my first wife to cancer. And you're walking through that journey. There's grace is for today and for the rest of eternity. But there's this hope.

[Scott]

Amen.

[Bill Thrall]

In eternity. That meets us in our time of.

[Scott]

Need that we can experience in a moment.

[John Lynch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott]

The hope of. I love that, Scott. The hope of eternity we can experience in a moment.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

When we accept his invitation for him to meet us at the throne of grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Bill Thrall]

In the realm of grace.

[Scott]

In the realm of grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And it's helped me. I'll just say it this way. I'm far less casual about prayer than I used to be for a lot of reasons. But one of the reasons is this. Do you know, when I choose to pray, God is accepting me in the realm of grace and he's meeting me there. And you just said it. Well, in the reality of my need, what if the God who is love and full of grace can touch my reality?

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Now listen to this part. What I'm going to say, I don't understand. But what if this God of grace is inviting me into his reality? Into his reality. And where he lives, where he loves, where he gives himself what he wants to give me his best. Oh, if I could just, like even right now, just lift my hands and say to the to God, teach me to receive your best. It's almost like, forgive me, God, that I would see you differently than who you really are.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Because every time I see you different than who you are, I will be robbed of your best for me.

[John Lynch]

Right.

[Scott]

Read one more verse for us. First Peter, chapter five.

[Bill Thrall]

And after you've suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ will himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you to him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

[Scott]

Amen.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

The God of all grace. This is what we're talking about, the God of all grace.

[Bill Thrall]

So, all grace.

[Scott]

He is the God of all grace. There is no grace apart from God.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He is the God of all grace. There is no grace apart from God. Those who worship a God who is not God will never experience grace.

[Bill Thrall]

It makes me think. And his name is Jesus.

[Scott]

And his name is Jesus.

[Bill Thrall]

Which makes me think about. I think I saw Franklin Graham on TV recently. Made me think of Billy Graham.

[Scott]

Yeah.

[Bill Thrall]

And how simple Billy's message always was. It was always just about Jesus.

[Scott]

Amen. And God used him to literally change the world.

[Bill Thrall]

It was. It is amazing.

[Scott]

It is amazing.

[Bill Thrall]

The influence.

[Scott]

It is amazing because Jesus is. Is the reality.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He who is grace has called you into his eternal glory.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He's called you. And. Oh, by the way, in the process of calling you, Scott, and you, Bill, and anyone who's listening.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

He called you into his glory in Christ because he wants to do these things, restore you, confirm you, strengthen and establish you. God's grace is about touching my reality. And you know what, Scott? I need to be restored. I need to be confirmed. My person needs identity.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Help me. Help me, God. Understand who I am.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And then. And then you said a little while ago, and sometimes life just gets hard. God, the God of all grace, you want to strengthen me.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

In the midst of my reality. And then he says, I want to establish you, Bill. Scott, I want to establish you. I want to give you a life worth living and a purpose that is eternal. God, I can barely see beyond my front yard. And you're suggesting that you want to establish in me a life worth living and a purpose beyond anything I've ever known. Yeah. Because my name is God, and I am good and I am loving, and I am full of grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Came to earth to bring me into his realm.

[Bill Thrall]

And he invites us to be a part of the Trinity.

[Scott]

Amen.

[Bill Thrall]

Which is crazy.

[Scott]

Who can comprehend John, chapter 17.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

They may be one with us.

[Bill Thrall]

One with us.

[Scott]

What? You know, my friend John lynch was here, he'd go, what are you smoking?

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

What are you smoking?

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

And. And. And yet this is. This is grace. I. I want to. As much as we can. I want us just to pause for a minute and imagine that our God, who is full of grace, lives in the realm of grace and is inviting Bill Scott into that realm with him so we can become established.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

In who we are, into the purposes of God for us.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Scott, this is what grace is about.

[Bill Thrall]

Can we say amazing grace?

[Scott]

Amazing grace. It's a good place to say amazing grace.

[John Lynch]

Yeah.

[Bill Thrall]

So we've got some more weeks to talk about this topic, don't we?

[Scott]

We do, yeah. Because I just use the word breath, but the expanse, the fullness of grace. God, teach us to understand that you have come to bring me into your reality, but we're going to learn some things together, I think.

[Bill Thrall]

All right, I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad. Glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.