Grace Reigns Because God Is Love

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Grace Reigns Because God Is Love"

Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
Episode: Grace Reigns Because God Is Love
Release Date: June 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this poignant episode of Living Influence, co-hosts Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd delve deep into the profound concept of grace, exploring its multifaceted nature and its pivotal role in understanding our relationship with God. Titled "Grace Reigns Because God Is Love," the episode navigates the intricate balance between God’s unconditional love and His abundant grace, challenging listeners to reevaluate their perceptions and embrace a more expansive view of divine benevolence.

Understanding Grace: Beyond the Basics

The episode kicks off with a reflective question: "Is our understanding of grace too small?" (00:03). This inquiry sets the stage for a comprehensive exploration of grace, prompting both hosts and listeners to consider its true depth and significance.

Scott Boyd emphasizes the necessity of a correct perception of God to fully grasp grace:
"Sometimes, Scott, as you know, I get accused of being the master of the obvious. But, as we think about grace, it's really important that we imagine together what is our view of God? Because if we don't have the right view of God, we'll never understand grace." (00:34)

The Essence of God: Love and Grace Intertwined

Central to the discussion is the foundational belief that "God is love" (01:13). Bill Thrall builds on this by highlighting God’s gracious nature:
"God is love. Often in the psalms, we're reminded that God is gracious. Gracious means to be full of grace." (01:28)

The hosts challenge the notion that grace is contingent upon our actions or worthiness. Scott poses a transformative idea:
"What if we learned that we don't have to do something to be loved? And, maybe for some of us, even more important, we don't have to work on our stuff to have a relationship with God." (02:46)

Overcoming Shame Through Grace

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the pervasive impact of shame and how grace can counteract it. Bill shares a personal reflection sparked by an overheard song:
"I don't pray as much as I used to because I don't think I deserve his time... God, come near, but don't get too close. I'm not worthy." (04:51)

Scott underscores the hindrance that shame poses to understanding grace:
"Our view of God may hinder the purpose of God in loving us. We want to hinder the purpose of a God full of grace in dealing with our stuff." (08:09)

God’s Commitment: Source of Hope

The dialogue shifts to the unwavering commitment of God, which serves as a beacon of hope for believers. Scott cites First Peter 1:5 to reinforce this commitment:
"Set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you. Set your hope fully." (10:55)

He elaborates on how God’s promise to "never leave you or forsake you" (12:34) provides profound assurance, especially for those who have experienced abandonment or neglect in their lives.

The Language of Shame

The hosts introduce the concept of the "language of shame," a series of negative self-perceptions that many struggle with. Scott lists several common expressions:
"I'm not enough. I'll never be enough. I don't matter. You don't care about me... I don't like me. And I don't want you to like me either." (17:52)

They explore how embracing grace can dismantle these destructive beliefs, fostering a healthier self-view rooted in God’s unwavering love.

The Breadth of Grace: Expansive and All-Encompassing

Anticipating future discussions, Scott outlines the "breadth of grace," a concept that encompasses grace’s role in various aspects of life:

• "Grace began within the Trinity itself without sin." (20:26)
• "Grace is the basis for my maturing as a saint." (21:06)
• "Grace is the key to all of my relationships of love." (21:12)
• "Grace is the foundation for my community of faith." (21:20)
• "Grace is the source of my destiny." (21:28)

Bill humorously corrects the terminology, preferring "the expansiveness of grace" over "breadth," highlighting its vast and inclusive nature:
"It's a huge word and it has huge implications on our influence on our lives." (21:59)

Conclusion: Embracing an Expansive Grace

As the episode wraps up, Bill and Scott invite listeners to join them on an ongoing journey to explore the depths of grace. They encourage engagement and sharing, emphasizing the transformative power of understanding and embracing God’s expansive grace.

Scott closes with an uplifting affirmation:
"Join us in this journey. May we, together, experience the expanse of grace." (22:22)

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Key Takeaways

• Grace Defined by God’s Nature: Understanding grace requires a proper view of God as inherently loving and gracious.
• Overcoming Shame: Embracing God’s grace can help dismantle feelings of unworthiness and shame.
• God’s Unwavering Commitment: Trusting in God’s promise to never forsake us provides profound hope and security.
• Expansive Grace: Grace is not limited to salvation but is foundational to personal growth, relationships, community, and destiny.
• Invitation to Journey: The hosts encourage listeners to actively engage in exploring and experiencing the expansive nature of grace.

Notable Quotes

• "God is love. Often in the psalms, we're reminded that God is gracious." — Scott Boyd (01:28)
• "What if we learned that we don't have to do something to be loved?" — Scott Boyd (02:46)
• "Set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you." — Scott Boyd (10:55)
• "I'm not enough. I'll never be enough. I don't matter." — Scott Boyd (17:52)
• "Grace is the source of my destiny." — Scott Boyd (21:28)
• "May we, together, experience the expanse of grace." — Scott Boyd (22:22)

Final Thoughts

Living Influence continues to challenge and inspire its audience by unpacking deep theological concepts with authenticity and relatability. In this episode, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd successfully illuminate the boundless nature of God's grace, encouraging listeners to embrace a transformative understanding that can redefine their relationship with themselves, others, and the divine.

Transcript

[A]

Is our understanding of grace too small? Welcome to Living Influence. So, Bill, we had comments from some people. We threw some trial balloons up and let some people watch some of our episodes. And we had this question, what does grace mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it got us thinking a little bit, didn't it?

[C]

It sure did. Got me thinking a lot, Scott. Yeah, really did. I think we're going to take like several weeks to talk about this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I, I don't think we can do it. And just. Oh, let's. Here it is.

[A]

Here's the definition of grace.

[C]

As we think about grace. Sometimes, Scott, as you know, I get accused of being the master of the obvious. But, but as we think about grace, it's really important that we imagine together what is our view of God? Because if, if, if we don't have the right view of God, we'll never understand grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And yet sometimes we don't understand a relationship between our view of ourselves and our view of God.

[D]

Right.

[C]

So. So if I don't, if I don't understand who God really is, I'll never get you. And I promise you, you'll never get me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So when we talk about grace, it begins with this phenomenon, really. Just, just these words. God is love.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. God is love.

[A]

That's another word that's used a whole lot.

[C]

Exactly. About God.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

God is love. Often in the psalms, we're reminded that, that God is gracious. Gracious means to be full of grace. Now imagine for just a minute, do I believe in a God who is love and full of grace? Do I believe in a God who in love loves me? And make that even stronger. We humans, there are some profoundly deep needs we have.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And one of, one of our great deep needs. Does anybody love me? Does anybody love my person?

[D]

Right.

[C]

Well, what if, what if we could believe in a God who loves our person? And then some of us, very quickly, we go, he loves our person, but he hates our stuff. He hates our stuff. He hates what we do. Etc. Etc. Well, pause for a minute. Everybody hold your breath. But what if we believed in a God who loves our person, who is full of grace and can handle all of our stuff?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What if we learned that we don't have to do something to be loved? And, and maybe for some of us, even more important, we don't have to work on our stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

To have a relationship with God, it's interesting.

[A]

It's like an environment that we live in.

[B]

It is.

[A]

And, and so it makes me think about walking into A room of strangers. I don't know them and they don't know me. And maybe I'm worried if I'm welcome or not.

[C]

Yeah, Right.

[A]

Versus if I like you or if they'll like me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But if I'm in a different environment and somehow I think God can give us security.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

Based on what we think about them.

[C]

Right, Exactly. Imagine the God we believe in is love. And imagine the God we believe in is full of grace. And that grace is actually the essence of his nature.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And this God who loves and is full of grace does something. He does everything he can to. To give us his best. Yeah, he gives everything he can to give us his best. What if grace in part was experiencing God's best?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What?

[A]

And if I believed that he gave me his best, that he was always after giving me his best.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

I wouldn't have to defend myself so much, Right?

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

Maybe make me less defensive.

[C]

Exactly. You know what hinders us automatically with what you are talking about is we have this sense that I don't deserve his best. Yeah, we have this sense that I don't deserve his best. I was telling you at lunch.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[C]

I was at. I was at Walmart this morning. I go there on my walk and get my drink and. And while I was in Walmart, I don't know the. I don't know the song. I don't know why the guy was singing it, but whatever. On the loudspeaker in Walmart, a guy was singing these words. I don't pray as much as I used to because I don't think I deserve his time. Oh, I thought. I'm sure it wasn't a Christian song. There were other words. I thought, oh, what a profound statement. What happened to us that would cause us that this God of love who wants to in his grace give us his best, causes us to do this to him. We do this thing like, God, come near, but don't get too close. I'm not worthy. I used to pray a lot, as the guy said in the song, but I'm not worthy of your time. And so as we think about grace, God is gracious, he's full of grace. He gives his goodness to us out of his love. You know, there's this combination of words in scripture, grace and truth. People keep trying to divide them. Yeah, I'm a grace guy. You're a truth guy. There is no such thing as truth without grace, and there's no such thing as grace without truth. It's a. It's it's two words that mesh together. Don't separate them. These two words mesh together.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Love and grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, I. I'm all about God's love. And I'm all about God's grace. Stop it. Stop it. God wants to give us his best because he loves us and because he's full of grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, into my Christian journey, I heard the doctrines of. There's nothing good in me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I'm. I'm just a sinner.

[B]

Y.

[A]

And I began to discover grace how actually God thought about me. And I began to feel this experience of, wait a minute. I. I am worthy to be loved.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

And if not for any other reason, then God said, I'm worthy to be loved.

[C]

Amen.

[A]

And it almost felt. And it is the reason, but. But it almost felt sacrilegious.

[C]

I know that for a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Their worm theology keeps them in a mindset of shame. Back. Back to these two words. God is love. You know, the God who is love cares about my person. Listen to this. And the God who is gracious, full of grace cares about my stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He cares so much about my stuff that the God who loves me died for my sin.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He cares so much about my stuff that the God who loves me died to take upon him my shame. We. We together right now have just given 22 mouthful of grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Imagine believing that a good God full of grace wants to give me his best. And it's always unmerited. Yeah, it's always unmerited. I don't earn it. It's a gift.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But if I don't believe that God is good, and I don't believe that he's full of grace. And I don't believe you just said it. And I don't believe he really loves my person because I'm not lovable, or my stuff is so great that he's just constantly disappointed with me. No, no. This. This is. This. What if this God of love can handle my reality? Yeah, Scott. What if there's nothing about what I've done, who I am and where I'm going that he can't handle? See, what we want to do, unfortunately, is we want to hinder the purpose of God in loving us. We want to hinder the purpose of a God full of grace in dealing with our stuff.

[B]

Why?

[C]

Because somehow and. And I. I would say this kind of deeply because sin has taught me something. It's taught me something. I'm full of shame.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's taught me that therefore I don't deserve sin.

[A]

Teaches me I'm not good.

[C]

Exactly. Good enough.

[A]

Not good enough.

[C]

I'm not good. I'm not good enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So. So are you guys telling me that there is a God who can handle my shame? There is a God who loves me. And. And I gotta learn to quit putting the words in spite of.

[D]

Right.

[C]

He loves me. Get the in spite of out of it.

[D]

Right.

[C]

He loves me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me say it again. He loves me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, he loves me. Who, Bill? Are you saying that the God who loves us can fully handle our stuff and there's nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There's nothing that can hinder his purpose right now. It's like, well, you guys are just. This is la la land stuff. You guys are just kind of making stuff up here. This can't be true. Yeah, well, it is true. There's a verse in First Peter, chapter one. It says, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you. Set your hope fully.

[A]

And then I like. That will be brought to you.

[C]

That will be brought to you. Yeah. It's a gift.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Not that you will run down and catch.

[C]

Exactly. Thank you. Thank you. I like that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

You just triggered that in me again. That. That reality that. See, the God who is love, the God full of grace, is always the initiator.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In our relationship with him.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So running down to do something for God, all of that. Let's not miss grace in this little time we're going to spend together these next few weeks. The God of love, the God full of grace, is the initiator in his relationship with me. I've said many times, Scott, you've heard me say it many times.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Jesus Christ, the Son of God who loves me, died for me on the cross.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So that I could have a relationship with God. But you know what Jesus did? Jesus went to the cross and died for me so that God could have a relationship with me.

[D]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's called grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

God wanting a relationship with me required the death of Jesus. He knew that.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Sometimes I like to just say to people, wouldn't it be great if we had as much confidence in the work of Christ as God does? Because God's confidence in the work of Christ tells God that in his love, he can make this promise to you, Scott, here's God's promise. I will never leave you or forsake you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

See? And immediately people kind of cringe and they go, what do you mean? God will never leave me or forsake me? Doesn't he understand how screwed up up I am? Doesn't he understand how unlovable I am?

[A]

What if I quit caring? What if I.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. What if. All the what ifs, you just go, wait a minute. I teasingly say to some audiences, imagine God will never leave you. Forsake you. Just rehearse in your minds for a minute some of the places you've taken him, because you've taken him to some pretty weird places. If what he said is true. But. But his reason for the statement is this. Love commits. Just think with me about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

God's grace. God's love is to give me his best.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And what I get when I get God's love is I get his commitment to me.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I mean, isn't that significant?

[C]

Oh, wait.

[A]

The creator of the universe is committed to me.

[C]

To me, to us. But don't us generalize. Just let it sink in for a minute. He's committed to me.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Because he understands something about me, by the way he made me. He's the creator.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you know what? He actually. We're going to talk about this in one of our sessions, but he actually made us to be loved. And everybody in the whole world, every day we, wakes up with a profound sense of insecurity displayed in a multiple number of ways.

[D]

Right.

[C]

You know what commitment does? Commitment satisfies the need of insecurity.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Could. Could I believe that the God of love who is full of grace is committed to me and will never leave me or forsake me? Some of us, like you and me, Scott, we've had people in our lives called parents who weren't fully committed to us. They weren't fully committed to us.

[D]

Right.

[C]

My parents, because of their alcoholism, just didn't have time for me, so to speak.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But. But in. But in reality, that lack of their commitment made me profoundly insecure.

[D]

Right.

[C]

For most of my young life into my maturing as a Christian.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So it's. It's not. This is not an incidental message. This is a profound message.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Am I willing for a moment to say, does the God that I believe and love me, does the God that I believe in have the ability to deal with all of my stuff?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is that God committed to me?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Whoa, whoa. We're kind of talking about grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then for me, love was such an overused word. It's like, okay, yeah, God loves me.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But then for me to imagine that God liked me, oh, that was the Hard one for me.

[C]

That's a good. Make that distinction for us. What do you mean by that? Why do you make a distinction?

[A]

You know, love you. Love you love your mom and dad because you're supposed to. Right. And that was really kind of. I mean, I grew up thinking that. So you love people, but then do you like spending time with them? Do you like to hang out with them? Do you like them? Do they. Do you get enjoyment when you're with them?

[C]

Amen.

[A]

Those were things that were harder for me.

[C]

Is there a kinship?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Is there a friendship?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Scott, even as you just said that, imagine Jesus, who is God, loving you, Scott, with an intention to be your friend.

[D]

Right.

[C]

What?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's called grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The eternal God wanting to have a friendship with me.

[B]

Mm. Yeah.

[C]

I just feel in my heart to restate this verse out of Peter, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Now, people with an improper view of God live without hope.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Listen to that. People with an improper view of God live without hope.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What is it that can cause my heart to have hope when I'm loved?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What. What is it that can cause me to have hope? And when there is answers to my stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I do have the language of shame. I've practiced it a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we all have.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Human condition.

[C]

A human condition. The language of shame.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Can my God handle that?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is that grace? I think it is.

[A]

What are the words of the language of shame? I think we've talked about them already in our podcast.

[C]

Yeah, we'll keep talking about. But one. One of the words of the language of shame is I'm not enough. I'll never be enough. I don't matter. You don't care about me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm not worth loving. I'm not lovable.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't like me. And I don't want you to like me either.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't trust me. And you better not trust me. You want me to keep going? There's a lot of words in this phenomenon called the language of shame.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And again, back to this hope thing. Growing up, not sure I was loved. I was scared. I. I was scared a lot as a kid's God.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

A lot of. A lot of fear in this guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I didn't. I didn't have the words for it then. I can tell you right now. I didn't wake up in the morning with hope.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I did not wake up in the morning with hope.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You Know. You know, I began to discover hope when my God and my wife and a few friends like you love me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I don't have hope, I begin to think the world is against me.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

And as I begin to think the world is against me and everything's against me, that affects my whole life.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

When you see others who don't hold that view and they don't think the world's against them, and they navigate the world differently. And I think there's a spiritual connection to our view of God and how we. How we are able to navigate life.

[C]

Oh, there's no doubt about that, Scott. You just said it perfectly. It's like, wait a minute. Are you guys trying to tell me. Tell us. Are you, Bill, Are you trying to tell us that your view of God has a profound effect on your view of you, which has a profound effect on your view of love and grace? Yep. That's what we're talking about. I would say. That's what we're talking about.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

As you start at the very beginning just thinking about grace and the depth of grace, we're going to spend several weeks talking about what I would call the breath of grace. I want to just read it to you. I just want to read to you the way we're going to be talking together.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

First of all, we're going to suggest that grace began within the Trinity itself without Stephen. That grace was not invented by God because I sinned.

[B]

Yeah, That's.

[A]

That's an interesting one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What if. What if grace was the means to my salvation? Oh, we know that one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But what about this one? What if grace is a gift of significance given to me? What if grace. Watch this one. What if grace is the basis for my maturing as a saint?

[D]

Right.

[C]

What if the next one were true? What if grace is the key to all of my relationships of love?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oops, here we go. What if grace was the foundation for my community of faith?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, and then lastly, what if grace is the source of my destiny?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What if God in grace designed. Use God? What if God and grace designed me for his purposes?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's called destiny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we want to welcome you. It's probably going to take us a couple of months to have this conversation.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

And discovering Bill likes to call it the breadth of grace, and I like to tease him because it's not the bread of grace, it's not the breadth of grace, but it's the expansiveness of grace.

[C]

And I accept that it's just a.

[A]

Hard word to say.

[C]

Yes, it is.

[A]

It's a huge word.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

And it has huge implications on our influence on our lives.

[C]

Join us. Join us in this journey. May we, together, Scott, experience the expanse of grace.

[A]

Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.