Healing the Lies We Believe About Ourselves

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “Healing the Lies We Believe About Ourselves”

Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
Date: October 23, 2025

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Overview of the Episode

In this intimate and vulnerable episode, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd dive deep into the personal and universal topic of the lies we believe about ourselves—and how those lies shape our convictions, behaviors, and capacity for influence. The conversation centers on discovering our true identity as defined by God and the healing power of authentic relationships. Bill and Scott share personal stories, grapple with shame and vulnerability, and offer hard-earned wisdom about moving from isolation to acceptance and healing within trusted community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Nature of Lies and Convictions

• Distinguishing Convictions from Lies: Many people organize their lives around convictions, but sometimes those convictions are built on lies believed about themselves.
  • Quote: "[I] realized something very important. The solution to that lie is not to work on the lie." – Bill ([03:39])
• Common Lies: Examples include "I don’t matter" or "I need to hide my shame.”
• How Lies Form: Childhood experiences—such as lack of love or traumatic events—plant deep-seated feelings of unworthiness.

2. Personal Stories of Shame and Insecurity

• Bill's Story:
  • Grew up in a large, emotionally neglectful family ("nine children, two parents... everybody was left to themselves" [01:53]).
  • Developed the conviction that he didn’t matter or wasn’t valued, shaping much of his relational life:
    "I didn’t matter. I wasn’t valued." – Bill ([01:39])
  • This led to perfectionism and seeking acceptance but not genuine connection.
• Impact of Shame:
  "The lie was feeding my shame, and my shame was convincing me that I really wasn’t worth knowing." – Bill ([03:09])

3. The Futility of Working on Lies by Ourselves

• Trying harder to "matter" or "stop hiding" only deepens the shame—attempting to solve these issues alone is a trap:
  "That puts you in jail... in prison, having to work on trying to matter." – Bill ([04:09])
• Paradox of Healing: Transformation happens not by working harder, but by receiving love:
  "The ultimate resolution to my lie is the genuine love of somebody." – Bill ([05:20])

4. The Power of Being Loved and Known

• Healing through Relationship:
  • Bill shares how a caring mentor, Gus Quinn, was the first to make him feel genuinely loved at age seven ([05:53]).
  • Bill’s wife Grace played a pivotal role by persistently offering love and proximity even as he pushed back:
    "Bill, why won't you let me love you? Why can't you trust me?" – Grace (as recalled by Bill, [06:45])
• Receiving Love as a Gift:
  "Love is meeting a need, a huge need. And it's not a transaction, it's a gift." – Scott ([05:20])

5. Safe Community and Vulnerability

• Scott’s Story:
  • Shares about his father leaving in the 5th grade and being taught to hide the family’s pain:
    "She taught us to lie.… so a lie that I believed was, oh, when I feel shame, I need to hide it." – Scott ([11:06])
  • Recognized that hiding was his automatic response to shame.
• The Solution is Community: Healing comes from being known in safe, trusted community, not by mustering courage to be vulnerable alone.
  • "What I'm really searching for is to be known. I don't feel safe right now... my solution forever has been to hide." – Bill ([12:41])
  • Cohorts/groups are intentionally built for safety (“we're not going to fix each other... what’s spoken in this room is holy.” – Scott [13:30])

6. The Mistake of Making Vulnerability a New “Law”

• Warning not to turn vulnerability into another performance trap:
  "I can now make this thing of being vulnerable my new law." – Scott ([15:17])
  • Attempting to be perfectly vulnerable all the time can itself produce new forms of shame and anxiety.
• True Solution: Trusting God’s declaration of our identity and leaning into relationships where others remind us of this truth.

7. The Role of a "Protection Team"

• Ongoing Need for Support:
  • Bill emphasizes having a “protection team” for 50+ years—trusted friends who remind him of the truth and help him step out into the light when he's triggered by old lies ([16:52]) "The power inherent in the sin that drives our shame is always broken in the light. Always." – Bill ([18:11])

8. Practical Approach to Listening and Sharing

• Shared techniques for safe sharing, e.g. separating issue-talking from commentary, and learning from both being the listener and the sharer ([19:08]).
• The experience of seeing others’ shame and loving them more—contrary to fears of rejection.
  "These people love you more. They respect you more. And so it's an amazing experience." – Scott ([14:59])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On futile self-effort:
  "No shame does not get worked on. Shame has to be resolved. And it can't be resolved by effort, but it can be resolved by love." – Bill ([10:00])

• On community as the antidote:
  "Each of us need others who can protect us, not fix us, who can stand alongside us and remind us of who it is God says we are." – Bill ([16:51])

• On the cycle of shame and healing:
  "The lie ignites the shame, and the shame ultimately destroys the person." – Bill ([17:26])

• On vulnerability:
  "You crack the door open... but you're convinced when you do this, they're going to abandon you. They're going to not respect you anymore. And then the exact opposite happens." – Scott ([14:44])

• On the power of light:
  "The power inherent in the sin that drives our shame is always broken in the light. Always." – Bill ([18:11])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:03 – Opening: Facing the lies we believe and how they shape our convictions
• 01:39 – Bill shares his core lie: "I didn't matter”
• 03:02 – How shame reinforces lies (“I was always insecure... embarrassment…”)
• 04:00 – Paradox: Why working on the lie traps us
• 05:20 – Receiving love as the healing gift
• 06:34 – Story of Gus Quinn: Receiving love for the first time
• 10:00 – Contrast between working on shame and resolving it by love
• 11:06 – Scott's story: Hiding shame, learning to lie to cover family pain
• 13:30 – Creating safety in community (“what’s spoken in this room is holy”)
• 14:44 – The surprising power of vulnerability
• 16:51 – Value of protection teams in leadership and personal growth
• 18:11 – Shame’s power is broken in the light
• 19:08 – Communication techniques for sharing and listening
• 19:47 – Invitation to reflect on personal lies and stories

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Episode Takeaways

• The need to identify and confront the lies we believe about ourselves is crucial for personal healing and authentic influence.
• Healing does not come from self-effort, but from being genuinely loved and known by God and others.
• Safe community and trusted relationships are essential to break shame’s power, not “working harder” on fixing ourselves.
• Vulnerability, when received with compassion, leads to deeper connection, not rejection.
• Everyone, especially leaders, needs a “protection team”—a circle of people who remind us of the truth when old lies resurface.

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This episode offers wise, practical encouragement for anyone stuck in cycles of self-doubt or shame, urging listeners to find safe relationships where the true self can emerge and thrive.

Transcript

[A]

What are the lies that you've believed? Welcome to Living Influence. We've been doing a new section, a new series, and we've been talking about having our lives led by convictions instead of having our lives led by circumstance, by open door and by opportunity. We've been telling you stories from our lives, but we come to an important question when we talk about what are the convictions? I believe. Are there convictions that you believe that actually might be lies? It's a significant topic because actually we all have lives that we've believed about ourselves.

[B]

Absolutely. I have the privilege, so to speak, of sitting across the table from people when I meet them or when they come to see me or for the first time I give them an assignment. It's always the same assignment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Come prepared to tell me who you are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And sometimes it's a couple paragraphs. And recently it was 11 pages. But. But what I'm looking for, I'm looking for what is the truth and what are the lies that they believe that have made them who they are? There are common themes. One of the lies that I believed all the way up in. Way into my 30s, till Grace, my dear wife, had that session with me. But. But, But I would say this. One of my lies was that. That I. I didn't matter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't matter. I wasn't valued.

[A]

So where did that start?

[B]

As a child, I wasn't loved. My parents, because of their alcoholism, were so preoccupied with themselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They created a family. There's nine children in my family. Nine children, two parents who are all individualists. Everybody was left to themselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To do whatever they thought needed to be done for their best or worst. Whatever. And what it did for me is it caused me to realize I didn't know it.

[A]

I did.

[B]

I would never have had this language before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But, but I knew the result. I didn't know the source of it was that I wasn't being loved. But. But I. I knew that what it did for me is it caused me to do everything I could to become acceptable.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I became. I became the kid who worked over diligently to be acceptable. My friends would tell you all the way up into high school, I was not a good friend because I was always searching for their liking me. I was always constantly insecure. Insecure.

[A]

Surfing.

[B]

I mean, terribly. I mean, I'm embarrassed to even say.

[A]

How gross it was, but.

[B]

But in reality, I discovered something in this process of this lie. I didn't understand that the lie was feeding my shame. And my shame was Convincing me that I really wasn't worth knowing, that I really wasn't valued, that I really didn't matter. So it compounded the lie.

[A]

So it self reinforced itself.

[B]

Absolutely. And as I've spent time with people, we're going to talk some more about some of our lies, but that we believed. I realized something very important. The solution to that lie is not to work on the lie.

[A]

Oh, that's really. So that's really, I think, significant.

[B]

Very significant.

[A]

The lie I'm believing is I don't matter. The solution to not mattering is not to work on mattering.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Because that puts you in, Put you in jail, where I'm actually.

[B]

Prison.

[A]

In prison. In prison, having to work on trying to matter.

[B]

Yeah. I, I, I can reflect even now. I can feel the depth of my loneliness as a child.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I, I can remember distinctly being in a place with people and being alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now to finish up that statement I made. So then how in the world does a person who believes that lie find any resolution to the lie? This is such an interesting thing. What I say to people is, I know this is going to confuse you, but let's work on it. What I'm going to suggest to you is that we're going to need to work together, Bill Thrall, on trusting and being loved. The ultimate resolution to my lie is the genuine love of somebody.

[A]

Love is meeting a need, a huge need. And it's not a transaction, it's a gift.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And so when you receive this gift, I must matter.

[B]

Scott, that is exactly right. I know this sounds like that couldn't be true, but I'm going to tell you something. When a man named Gus Quint came into our family and introduced my brothers to Bible camp, and he spent hours with the boys in my family, including me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At seven years old, that was the first time I experienced love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I did, he became my father in law. And when I did his funeral, I wrote these words down. At seven years old, Gus Quinn was the first person I knew that loved me. So it's like, it's almost a paradox in its resolution. It's like when we teach about Jesus telling us to love one another, the wisdom of Jesus is saying, do you know, Scott, that when we love one another, we become a source of healing for each other.

[A]

It's so powerful, isn't it? Oh, I mean, it's like it is the, it is the thing, it is the thing that, that brings healing.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's like, wait a minute. So that story we told just a couple sessions ago about Grace taking me for that drive. In reality, her words that night are included in this thought. Bill, why won't you let me love you? Why won't you trust me? Why can't you trust me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So a real struggle now takes place in the healing. A real struggle because I, in my sense of not mattering. I challenge you. That's why I was a hard friend. I challenge you. You better love me or you better do this. You better. I challenge you. So I do this to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Constantly. Constantly do this to you. Because what I'm searching for. I don't want to get hurt again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't want to keep getting hurt.

[A]

Yeah, you better be.

[B]

You better be. And what I'm doing is in my pain, I am putting the conditions upon which I will be acceptable. And there's no resolution when I am the solution to me.

[A]

Did this happen? To a degree. Was this an issue that you had to work with with Grace?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

After this conversation.

[B]

Oh, ab. Absolutely. It was like, first of all, the conversation broke my heart open.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But. But. But after my heart was broken open, I. I honestly can say that I had and still have such a deep appreciation of Grace being able to handle my way of being loved.

[A]

You would push back or. But she would. She just get near me.

[B]

And that night she did something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She got near me. She sat right next to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The dynamic we're capturing right now is this. I believed a lie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It. You're right. In your introduction, it became a conviction because it's what I acted upon. So I'm going to just say that again. A conviction is a truth we act upon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we have to ask myself and our audience, what do you act upon?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What are. And sometimes, as you said earlier, what I act upon is a lie and it defines me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can be redefined in that particular example by being loved in a really non. Corny way. I want to say to everybody, do you know what the guy who's talking. I love to be loved. I just love to be loved. I have experienced so much healing in the love of God and the love of grace and the love of friends and your love that I just love to be loved. The guy who's saying right now he loves to be loved lived up into his almost 30, not ever trusting anyone with me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. So a lot of models, so to speak, of how people need to deal with their shame is to work on it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, no, no, no. No shame does not get worked on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Shame has to be resolved. And it can't be resolved by effort, but it can be resolved by love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We have, in our ministry, we have a one liner. Only grace through love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Only grace through love.

[A]

I want to process something with you right now, live.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's crazy, but. So my dad left, and when I was in fifth grade.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Came home and sat down and. And told my sister and I he was leaving. I remember crying on the couch. I remember him getting the terry cloth dish towel. What the dish towel felt like on my face.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I mean, it was. I mean, I remember all those details in the 5th. 5th grade. I don't remember what my mom did immediately, but I do remember that she told us, tell the neighbors that dad is on a business trip. She taught us to lie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Over the things we felt shame about. So a lie that I believed was, oh, when I feel shame, I need to hide it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Now tell me how I work on that.

[B]

Well, thank you, Scott. That's a great example. First of all, we need to come to the realization that what you're doing ain't working if it's true. And it is true that you hide.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you feel shame.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And trying not to hide has never worked yet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's like, oh, my gosh. Then I got what you're doing right now. I need to ask somebody. How do you get past this particular plan? Because this one ain't working.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So it's. It's almost the same answer that I gave to my own story, but it's this. I've been with you a while as a friend, colleague, and somewhere along the line, you. Somebody caused you to feel known.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To feel known.

[A]

It caused me to feel safe to be known.

[B]

Safe to be known. Somebody did that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And one of your stories.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Maybe we'll get to it. But one of your stories was. Was that dynamic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what I'm saying is the solution doesn't change. Sometimes the application. Let me say it this way. When Scott feels the need to hide, a signal in the heart needs to go off.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I see. What I'm really searching for is to be known. I don't feel safe right now. I thought my problem was my hiding. No, my problem is I don't feel safe. I don't feel known. So my solution forever has been to hide.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what if in your heart, a signal went off the next time that.

[A]

You were wanting to hide? Right.

[B]

And you said, I wonder who I should call yeah. That I know loves me to tell them what I'm experiencing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they can remind me of who I am.

[A]

Because that's where it is.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I do some cohorts. You do some cohorts with people. But we're going to create a group of safety. Safety here.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Here's the rules of our group. You know we're not going to fix each other. Right. What's spoken in this room is holy.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

What's spoken by another person is not yours. It's theirs. And you don't ever profane that by thinking you have permission to share that with anyone else. And I set the stage for. I want us to have the experience from both sides, the listener and the sharer. Because they're two different experiences.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

When you are the listener of someone who is vulnerable about something, they feel shame about a lie that they believed. Your heart melts. You find you love and respect and know this person. Begin to understand their story. And you have compassion for them and you think more highly of them.

[B]

Amen. Even though they're all screwed up.

[A]

Even though they're all screwed up.

[B]

In fact, they just got done telling you how screwed up they are.

[A]

And then you turn the tables and you get to tell whatever part of your story you feel safe to tell.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And you crack the door open.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You just had the experience of what happened to you as this person did what you're going to do. But you're convinced when you do this, they're going to abandon you. They're going to think you're the worst guy ever. They're going to not respect you anymore.

[B]

And.

[A]

And then the exact opposite happens. These people love you more. They respect you more. And so it's an amazing experience. However, there's a warning that you just pointed out. Is that I can now make this thing of being vulnerable my new law.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

And that's where you said, when I have this lie that I believe I can't solve the lie by working on the lie.

[B]

No.

[A]

And so the lie is I hide. So, okay. The law is. Now I have to be vulnerable all the time. And I. And I fail at it.

[B]

Stop there for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that's a profound statement. You fail at it, therefore retrigger your shame. But now you have a new shame issue.

[A]

Yeah. Right. It just. It's. It's a vicious circle. It is. And so the solution is trusting the identity that God says I actually.

[B]

Amen. And trusting some people who believe that.

[A]

Identity in you so they can help you believe it.

[B]

Exactly. Because they can remind you of your reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My neighbor lives right across the street. Dennis has been on my protection team forever. So are you. And you are the men. My wife. And few men that I go to when I get triggered.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In my lies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Dennis has been an amazing asset to my life because I have that privilege. I introduced something just now, feeding off of what you said, that I just want to mention. I believe, Scott, that each of us need others who can protect us, not fix us, who can stand alongside us and remind us of who it is God says we are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thank God for what I'm going to say next. I've been in the ministry for over 50 years and, Scott, I have never ministered without a protection team. Never. I wouldn't do it. I set up all kinds of leaders. Many, many, many leaders over many years, different places. A protection team. Why? Because of this dynamic which we've taught before. The lie ignites the shame, and the shame ultimately destroys the person.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So what do I. Why would I need to be protected?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I need to be protected. When this man who's talking, his heart gets tweaked by something I'm hiding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

His heart gets tweaked by something that. That I'm convinced I'm a disappointment or whatever my language is. It isn't like an hour counseling session. That's not my protection. They're my counselors. You're not my counselor. You're my friend. I trust you. I love you. You love me. What they are. There's something here in this that is amazing. The power inherent in the sin that drives our shame is always broken in the light. Always.

[A]

It's in Ephesians, so.

[B]

Exactly. So just the telling, like you just did in front of everybody.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Just the telling opens the door for the power of the shame to be broken. Don't want to work on my shame, but I have it. Somebody help me. Give me an answer to the reason that I believe these lies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what we're working on.

[A]

Yeah. And you can't do it without others. One quick little story of this communications technique I learned. And we had mats that we'd put on the floor and you'd stand on the spot of what you were doing. So the listener mat was. The listener could ask an open ended question. The listener could check in to see if he understood what was said. The listener could affirm what he heard, but the listener couldn't make commentary.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then the person with the issue had to talk about what they felt about the issue, what they thought about the issue, what the facts of the issue were, what their wants were. I mean, there's a whole thing. But here's the experience that was interesting. If you were in the room watching two people, oh, my gosh, you'd see it so clearly. But the moment you got up and you had to be on the issues mat and talk about things, this like, fog clouds rolled in and you just couldn't see straight, you know, and everybody in the room could see.

[B]

It was great exercise.

[A]

It was. It was fascinating.

[B]

Oh, great exercise.

[A]

Next week we're going to continue with stories of lies we believed. I think this is a good spot to dwell and to spend some time in. What are the lies that you've believed? It's a good question to ask yourself. Thanks for being here and we hope you share this podcast with others and we'll see you next week.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them.

[B]

Thanks again, Sam.