Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd

Episode: How Sin Management Blocks You from Experiencing Love
Date: November 6, 2025

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd challenge the pervasive concept of “sin management” within Christian communities. They explore how focusing on managing personal sin can shrink lives, foster pride, and ultimately obstruct the experience of God’s unconditional love. Drawing on Scripture, personal stories, and candid reflection, Bill and Scott invite listeners to consider a grace-based theology, rooted in identity as beloved children of God, rather than defining oneself by sin or the struggle to overcome it.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Flawed Theology of Sin Management (00:12 – 04:07)

• Defining Sin Management:
  Bill and Scott unpack a dominant church narrative that Christians are fundamentally sinners, whose primary task is striving to manage their sinfulness.
  • “This concept, this theology that is dominant in the church… is teaching Christians that they are sinners. …their most important issue is how to deal with sin.” – Bill (00:26)
• Outcomes of Sin Management:
  Scott outlines two possible paths: becoming prideful and judgmental, or feeling perpetually inadequate.
  • “One is you’ll make your world really small and you'll be really prideful and judgmental… Or the second is you’ll never be enough.” – Scott (01:23)
• Comparison to Phariseeism:
  Bill likens these outcomes to the traits of Pharisees—self-righteousness and judgmentalism—prevalent in churches.
• God’s Solution:
  Bill stresses that only God could truly address sin:
  • “The only person who needed to be really serious about sin was God. …Jesus died for every sin because we cannot manage any sin.” – Bill (01:54)

The Ineffectiveness and Harm of Sin Management (03:06 – 04:36)

• Sin Management’s Focus:
  Many resources, even those on grace, still promote steps to “sin less,” but the focus remains wrong.
  • “Working on sin will never cause me to sin less…As Jesus taught, you and I loving each other will cause us to sin less.” – Bill (03:23)
• Love as the Answer:
  Shifting from managing sin to embracing love is transformative:
  • “What if the message of grace was a message of love?” – Bill (04:01)

Identity: Saints, Not Sinners (04:08 – 05:39)

• Seeing Ourselves as God Sees Us:
  Bill and Scott emphasize the difference between striving to become godly and embracing the new identity God has given.
  • “Instead of viewing me in a theology that I’m still a sinner, I could now view me as God sees me, a saint…my striving to become something is already the somebody I already am.” – Bill (04:08)
  • Scott draws a humorous comparison to being the child of an earthly billionaire, then points out our status is far higher as children of God.
• Receiving Love First:
  Before we can love others, we must first know and receive God’s love for us.
  • “If I don’t receive love first, I don’t have love to give.” – Scott (05:27)
  • “Love is never an obligation. Ever. Stop it. Stop it a thousand times.” – Bill (05:41)

Personal Stories: How Sin Management Shapes Behavior (05:49 – 14:09)

• Bill’s Bible College Story (05:49 – 13:13):
  Bill vulnerably recounts being persuaded to write letters cutting himself off from his non-Christian friends, convinced this was godly behavior.
  • The painful outcome: ostracism and regret, highlighting the relational harm of sin-management theology.
  • “I was on track to become a godly man because I've separated myself from the world. …That's all sin management nonsense.” – Bill (06:50)
  • His friends responded with pain but also grace, teaching him that this form of separation has nothing to do with love.
  • “It all backfired, Scott… a theology of sin management that caused me to have a mindset of separation rather than a commitment of love.” – Bill (08:59)
  • Bill’s reflection: “Legalism finds its root in a theology that keeps the saint a sinner.” (13:13)
• Scott’s School Board Experience (11:05 – 11:32):
  Scott recalls pushing back against fear-driven separation in a Christian school context.
  • “I didn’t want fear to be the reason we were a Christian school…and yet it’s a huge reason.” – Scott (11:10)

Grace vs. Legalism: Living from a Place of Love (13:35 – 16:04)

• Isolation and Judgment:
  Sin management and legalism create secrecy, judgment, isolation, and ultimately a less loving community.
  • “Legalism has its root in theology that keeps the saint a sinner…As I live out a sinner, tragically, I have to hide what I’m doing and act godly for your sake.” – Bill (13:36)
• Reality vs. False Narrative:
  Grace declares a new spiritual reality.
  • “Working on your sin is not your reality. Trusting that God has made you truly holy and righteous in his image is the foundation that frees you to love. That’s your reality.” – Bill (15:28)

Personal Transformation Through Grace (16:13 – 19:59)

• Scott’s Cancer Story (16:13 – 18:55):
  Facing his wife’s cancer, Scott describes how efforts to be the “good Christian man” only led to failure and shame. God’s grace came, not because he deserved it, but because he needed it.
  • “I was in prison. I couldn’t stop sinning. …It’s where I began to pray for grace.” – Scott (17:39)
• Discovering Galatians and the Message of Grace (18:46 – 19:16):
  Memorizing Galatians, Scott realized how contrary sin management is to the gospel message.
  • “The Bible was telling me everything I had believed… was opposite of what God was really wanting to do.” – Scott (18:50)
• A New Perspective with Non-Christian Peers:
  Scott shares a story about joining a peer group and realizing his own judgmentalism.
  • “I was judging this. I’m like, no wonder these people hate us.” – Scott (19:59)
  • Bill affirms: “We have projected to them a false gospel. …It’s tragic.” (20:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Working on sin will never cause me to sin less. …Loving each other will cause us to sin less.” – Bill (03:23)
• “Instead of viewing me in a theology that I’m still a sinner, I could now view me as God sees me, a saint.” – Bill (04:08)
• “If I don’t receive love first, I don’t have love to give.” – Scott (05:27)
• “Love is never an obligation. Ever. Stop it. Stop it a thousand times.” – Bill (05:41)
• “Legalism finds its root in a theology that keeps the saint a sinner.” – Bill (13:13)
• “Working on your sin is not your reality. Trusting that God has made you truly holy and righteous in his image is the foundation that frees you to love.” – Bill (15:28)
• “We have projected to them a false gospel.” – Bill (20:05)

Important Timestamps

• 00:12 – 04:07: Introduction to sin management; its prevalence in Christian theology.
• 04:08 – 05:41: Shifting from identity as sinner to beloved child of God.
• 05:49 – 13:13: Bill’s personal story of sin management in Bible college, consequences, and regret.
• 13:35 – 16:04: The root of legalism and its isolating effects.
• 16:13 – 19:59: Scott’s personal journey through his wife’s cancer, discovering grace, and the limitations of legalism.
• 19:16 – 20:13: Real-world encounter with non-Christians, breaking down judgment, and projecting a false gospel.

Conclusion & Call to Action

Bill and Scott encourage listeners to consider how their theology is shaping their lives and relationships. They challenge the assumption that a focus on managing sin is the Christian way, advocating instead for a grace-based approach rooted in identity, acceptance, and love.

• “How’s your theology influencing you? That’s the question we’d like you to consider.” – Scott (20:18)