Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd

Episode: The Danger of Using the Law to Become Godly
Date: November 27, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on breaking the cycle of "sin management" through a deeper understanding of grace, rather than striving for godliness by adhering to the law. Bill and Scott explore the profound shift that occurs when a Christian moves from self-effort and hiding into a life rooted in who God says they are—a life not enslaved to sin, but freed by grace and honest vulnerability with God and others.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trap of Sin Management and Its Impact on Identity

• Scott shares a personal story (00:05) about how focusing on his own sin, or lack of it, placed him in a "hopeless spot," feeling disconnected from the experience of salvation.
• Wrestles with the fear that persistent sin means he isn’t really righteous, even doubting past spiritual experiences (00:50).
• He realized through Galatians that accepting any law as necessary for godliness means needing to keep them all, leading to being "cut off from Christ," the very source of grace (01:48).

  “If I accept any law as something I must keep, I have to keep them all. In fact, if I accept any law, I'm cut off from Christ and I've fallen from grace.” —Scott (01:48)

2. Experiencing God’s Love Beyond Knowledge

• Bill reflects that, though he never doubted his salvation, he didn’t experience God’s love; he knew “about” love, but not that it could be tangibly experienced (03:24).
• Experiencing the love of God changes self-perception and enables the ability to love others authentically (05:47).

  “We love God because why? He first loves us.” —Bill (05:44) “When we experience our being loved of God...we become aware that we are loved, which opens us to becoming lovers of each other.” —Bill (06:23)

3. Vulnerability and Breaking Patterns of Sin

• Candid talk about marital conflict: Bill admits, “Years ago, I would have withdrawn from [Grace] into a pity party that could last a long time,” now, it lasts “up to three minutes,” reflecting real transformation (07:00–07:14).
• He traces how he used passiveness as a weapon, learning only later that it was unacknowledged anger (08:22–08:43).

  “I used my passiveness as the voice of my anger...she's really going to pay for what she did because I'm going to withdraw from her…” —Bill (08:02)

• But new self-awareness and vulnerability—acknowledging the reaction and moving toward reconciliation—shows the evidence of righteousness at work (10:09).

  “I even surprise Grace sometimes...I'll go to her and I'll say, honey, that wasn't a good reaction. And she'll go, what happened to you? Who took my husband from me?” —Bill (09:56)

4. Escape from Hiding & Slavery to Sin

• Bill explains that hiding—driven by the shame of sin—leads to greater bondage (11:47–12:51).

  “I hide because I sin, and my hiding makes me a slave to the sin that I do.” —Bill (12:52)

• Honest, trusting relationships are the antidote. Bringing sin into the light breaks its power (13:17).

  “When sin is brought into the light, the power of sin is broken.” —Bill (13:17)

• Avoiding vulnerability and honesty leads to unhealthy church cultures; many measure each other by how little they sin, so everyone hides.

5. Self-Centeredness as the Heart of Sin

• Scott recounts an “executive reinvention” program where he had to evaluate his motivations—finding they were all self-centered, not about others (15:02–17:34).

  “What were those four things all about? They're about me. They were ultimately not about other people. It was selfishly only about me.” —Scott (16:52)

• The hosts emphasize that sin always makes life “about me,” and the law-based solutions feed this self-focus (17:45–18:09).

6. True Godliness: Moving from Self-Effort to New Reality

• Bill: “It's a wonderful thing to want to be godly. It's a horrible thing to be the solution to your godliness.” (18:09)
• The solution to not being a slave to sin is rooted in embracing the new identity and reality gained through Christ.

  “Why am I no longer a slave to sin? Because I've been given a new reality.” —Bill (18:30)

  • They preview that the next episode will dig into what it means to live from this new reality.

7. The Cycle of Shame, Law, and Hopelessness

• Law-based efforts wake up shame, fueling endless efforts to sin less, leading to discouragement and hopelessness if one fails (18:42–19:27).

  “So what do I do? What's my solution to my sin? Work on sinning less until I lose hope, and then I don't care what happens to me. And those people are hopeless.” —Bill (19:07)

• Many Christians, even in church, remain stuck identifying only as “just a sinner,” unable to step into their true identity (19:29–19:35).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Scott: “If I view myself as a sinner, then my focus is going to be on sinning. My focus is also going to be on my not sinning. And it becomes the evidence to me that I am the slave of sin.” (00:23)
• Bill: “When I, as a Christian, seek to use the law to become godly, I, as a Christian, am cutting myself off from grace—which is, by the way, the only solution.” (03:01)
• Bill: “I hide because I sin and my hiding makes me a slave to the sin that I do.” (12:52)
• Scott: “Whatever I hide, I will repeat. Whatever I hide will ultimately define me.” (13:17)
• Bill: “It's a wonderful thing to want to be godly. It's a horrible thing to be the solution to your godliness.” (18:09)
• Bill: “Why am I no longer a slave to sin? Because I've been given a new reality.” (18:30)
• Bill: “So what do I do? What's my solution to my sin? Work on sinning less until I lose hope, and then I don't care what happens to me. And those people are hopeless.” (19:07)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:05 — Introduction and personal story about focusing on sin and the experience of grace
• 01:48 — Galatians principle: accepting law means being "cut off from Christ"
• 03:24 — Bill’s realization of not experiencing God’s love
• 05:44 — Connecting the experience of God’s love to loving others (John 13)
• 07:00–08:43 — How marital conflict revealed unhealthy patterns and transformation through grace
• 11:47–12:52 — The dynamics of hiding, sin, and slavery to sin
• 13:17–13:31 — Quotes about hiding and being defined by what is hidden
• 15:02–17:34 — Scott’s story about self-centeredness at work and the deeper roots of sin
• 18:09–18:30 — The difference between wanting to be godly and trying to become godly through self-effort; introduction to “a new reality”
• 18:42–19:27 — The awakening of shame, endless struggle, and descent into hopelessness

Overall Tone & Style

Candid, vulnerable, gentle, and invitational. The hosts draw frequently from personal stories, Scripture, and relatable struggles. Their language is encouraging, humble, and deep, inviting listeners into honest self-reflection and hope.

Summary

In “The Danger of Using the Law to Become Godly,” Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd challenge Christians to abandon "sin management" in favor of embracing the grace and new identity given by Jesus. The episode highlights the destructive cycle of hiding and self-effort, emphasizing that true godliness and influence come not from personal resolve but from experiencing God’s love and living honestly in community. Vulnerability, honesty, and trusting relationships—paired with a right understanding of one’s identity—are set forth as the path out of slavery to sin and into real freedom.

For listeners seeking to go deeper, next week promises further conversation on what it means to live from the new reality Christ offers.