The Immense Reality of the Gift Called Grace

Summary

Certainly! Here is a detailed, long-form summary of the "Living Influence" podcast episode titled "The Immense Reality of the Gift Called Grace", hosted by Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd.

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Living Influence Podcast: The Immense Reality of the Gift Called Grace

Hosts: Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd
Episode Title: The Immense Reality of the Gift Called Grace
Release Date: July 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this deeply insightful episode of Living Influence, co-hosts Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd explore the profound concept of grace as an essential divine gift. The discussion revolves around understanding who truly qualifies as the humble recipients of God's grace and how embracing this gift can transform individual lives and, by extension, society. Through theological reflections, personal anecdotes, and biblical exegesis, Bill and Scott aim to uncover the true essence of grace and its pivotal role in one's spiritual journey.

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Understanding Grace and Humility

The episode begins with Scott introducing the theme: the immense reality of the gift called grace. Both hosts acknowledge the weight of the topic, with Scott noting, “Those are big words” [00:03]. Bill builds on this by referencing their long-standing teaching on humility as the pathway to receiving grace. He cites 1 Peter 5:5, stating, “God gives grace to the humble” [00:20], and emphasizes the importance of discerning who the humble are.

Bill poses a fundamental question: “Who in the world are the humble?” [01:02]. He suggests that humility may not merely be a virtue but a relational stance—choosing to trust God over oneself. This perspective shifts the traditional view of humility from a passive trait to an active dependence on God’s provision.

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Trusting God: Overcoming Fear and Misunderstanding

Scott delves deeper by asking, “What does it mean to trust God?” [01:47]. Bill responds by explaining that trusting God involves recognizing human limitations and relying on His wisdom and strength. He articulates, “What it means to trust God is to trust somebody who can do what is best for us” [02:19]. Bill emphasizes that trust requires action—actively choosing to lean on God rather than solely on personal effort.

Scott shares a personal reflection on the fear associated with trusting God, mentioning, “What if he makes me do something I don’t want to do?” [03:19]. Bill addresses this fear by reminding listeners of God’s inherently loving nature, asserting, “Why would I fear a God who lives for my best? In fact, died for my best” [03:37]. He underscores that mistrust stems from a misconception of who God is and encourages listeners to see trust as an active partnership with God.

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Biblical Foundation: Romans 5:15

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Romans 5:15, which Scott reads:

"So if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift of the grace of the one man, Jesus abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. [...] For as by one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience, the many will be made righteous." [09:24 – 10:53]

Bill interprets this passage by contrasting the sin of Adam with the redemptive grace of Jesus. He emphasizes that “the grace of God is greater than all of that” [12:54], highlighting the overwhelming magnitude of God’s gift through Christ’s sacrifice. This theological insight reinforces the theme that God's grace is not only sufficient but abundantly surpasses human sinfulness.

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Limiting Grace Through Human Effort

Bill and Scott explore how humans often limit their experience of grace by relying on personal efforts to manage sin rather than fully embracing God's redemptive work. Bill asserts, “We limit it because we think we have a part in it” [15:05], explaining that incorporating works into the equation undermines grace. He describes sin management as an oxymoron, stating, “Sin management is an oxymoron” [17:33], since sin cannot be effectively managed without divine intervention.

Scott adds that attempting to manage sin independently suggests a lack of reliance on Christ’s atonement, reinforcing that “sin cannot be managed. It has to always be redeemed” [17:48]. This mutual understanding between the hosts underscores the necessity of abandoning self-reliant efforts in favor of trusting in God's grace.

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Practical Implications: Receiving and Living Out Grace

Transitioning from theology to application, Bill and Scott discuss what it means to truly receive and live out grace. Bill shares personal struggles with vulnerability, stating, “I have a life, and I'm afraid to be known” [07:35], and emphasizes the importance of trusting God with one's entire reality. This involves letting go of fears and embracing God’s unconditional love and acceptance.

Scott reinforces this by highlighting the transformation that comes from surrendering to grace: “When you lay down, you surrender to God's grace and you let God give me this gift” [21:48]. He compares this shift to “putting a new pair of glasses on” [22:48], symbolizing a renewed perspective and greater clarity in life.

The hosts also discuss the leadership paradox where many leaders may preach the gospel but fail to live it out fully by not entrusting their entire lives to Christ. Bill observes, “they’ve never trusted Jesus with their life” [09:06], pointing out a common yet profound disconnect between preaching and practicing faith.

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Conclusion

In the concluding segments, Bill and Scott reiterate the central message: embracing and trusting in God's grace is essential for personal transformation and effective influence in the world. They encourage listeners to “leave the effort of managing sin” and instead “receive” God's unmerited favor, which empowers them to love others and discover their unique callings.

Bill reflects on the vastness of God's grace, stating, “What Jesus did is he offered life to all who have died” [12:55], and Scott adds a hopeful note on the transformative power of grace in altering one’s worldview and relationships.

The episode wraps up with an invitation to listeners to continue engaging with the topic of grace in future episodes, fostering a community of growth and understanding around this fundamental Christian concept.

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Notable Quotes

• Bill Thrall [00:20]: “God gives grace to the humble.”
• Bill Thrall [02:19]: “What it means to trust God is to trust somebody who can do what is best for us.”
• Scott Boyd [15:19]: “The fear of trusting is not understanding who God is.”
• Bill Thrall [12:54]: “What Jesus did is he offered life to all who have died.”
• Bill Thrall [17:33]: “Sin management is an oxymoron.”
• Scott Boyd [21:48]: “When you lay down, you surrender to God's grace and you let God give me this gift.”
• Scott Boyd [22:48]: “It's like putting a new pair of glasses on where you see leaves on the trees and you didn't see them before.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Grace is a Divine Gift: Grace is bestowed by God upon the humble, emphasizing that it's not earned by human efforts but given freely to those who trust in Him.

2. Humility as Trust: True humility involves a relational trust in God, recognizing His sovereignty and our dependence on His grace.

3. Biblical Insight: Romans 5:15 serves as a cornerstone for understanding the magnitude of God's grace in contrast to human sinfulness.

4. Limiting Grace: Human efforts to manage sin independently undermine the transformative power of grace, highlighting the necessity of relying solely on God's redemptive work.

5. Practical Application: Embracing grace involves vulnerability, surrendering fears, and allowing God to transform our lives, leading to genuine godliness and effective influence.

6. Consistent Living: Preaching grace should be matched with living it out, ensuring that one's faith journey reflects a deep trust in God's unmerited favor.

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This episode of Living Influence serves as a profound exploration of grace, urging listeners to move beyond superficial understandings and embrace a life transformed by trusting in God's immense gift. It underscores that true influence is rooted not in personal achievement but in humble dependence on divine grace, offering a pathway to deeper spiritual fulfillment and impactful living.

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Transcript

[Bill]

Foreign.

[Scott]

We've been talking about grace. Today we're going to talk about the immense reality of the gift called grace. Welcome to living influence, Bill. The immense reality. You coined those words.

[Bill]

Those are big words.

[Scott]

Those are big words.

[Bill]

Yeah, those are big words. Well, let's, let's, let's, let's just keep thinking about this gift for a minute. For many years, Scott, we. I have been teaching out of First Peter, chapter 5, verse 5, this truth. God gives grace to the humble, Right? Okay. God gives grace. Well, with this gift of grace, God gives it to the humble.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And this gift of grace to the humble. And so a lot of times we keep trying to imagine this gift of grace, and that's great. We keep working on that these weeks. But for right now, I'm going to just pay two minutes attention to something different. Who in the world are the humble?

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

If God's going to give this immense gift of grace to the humble, it would be a real good idea if I knew who, who they were or what that means. And, and so for many years, for centuries, the church has struggled with this concept of humility. And, and it's, it's a virtue that many teach that if you talked about it, it would mean you didn't have it. What if humility was a relational word? What if humility was this a human being choosing to trust God? That's the humble.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Scott]

So how do you. What does that mean, to trust God?

[Bill]

That's a great question.

[Scott]

Push in there.

[Bill]

Yeah, it's a great question. What does it mean to trust God at the heart of the. Of man, There has to come a time when we understand we cannot do what is best for us. We can't do it. People are spending billions of dollars on therapy every week trying to get somebody to convince them they can do it.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

But really what it means to trust God is to trust somebody who can do what is best for us. It means to trust. It means to rely upon. It means to lean in. I like to say that it means to lean in. Is my God someone I can trust with me? And when I choose to trust him, his promise is this. I will always experience grace.

[Scott]

So I remember when I began to get serious about, like, okay, I need, I need to make a decision about God and am I going to follow him? And exactly. Are we going to Bev and I going to keep going to this church? And, and there was this fear. What if he makes me do something I don't want to do? Yeah, you heard. Ever had anybody?

[Bill]

Oh, lots and Lots of somebody's. And what that says, it's an honest fear. But what that says is this. Oh, I. I see. My problem is not my fear. My problem is I've missed who God is. God loves me.

[Bev]

Yes.

[Bill]

God's grace is for my best. Oh, why would I fear a God who lives for my best? In fact, died for my best. Yeah, but I hear it a lot. A misunderstanding of trust can leave a man with the thought of, well, there's nothing for me to do. Yeah, it's a misunderstanding of trust. Trust is something to do. Trust is something to do. Trust is a something that says, is there a somebody. Is there a somebody that I can lean into who can do in and for me what I cannot? That is something to do. What we want to say is, well, trust leaves nothing for me to do. Oh, oh, wait, you forgot to add the magical words. Love needs nothing for me to do. Oh, except trust. Now you know what I've discovered after just a few years of being in the ministry. It is always easier to try to do something for God than it is to trust that God wants to do something for me.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

The human, the human dynamic is I'm going to demonstrate what I can do. And humility says I need to learn to lean into what God can do.

[Scott]

The fear of trusting is not understanding who God is.

[Bill]

Exactly.

[Scott]

If I understood who he was, why would I fear trusting Him?

[Bill]

Exactly. You know, the very first week we started this series, these talks on grace, it was back to this. Who is He?

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Is he really a God of love? Is that who he is? Is he a God of grace? Does he really live in a realm in which he gives him? The Trinity, gives themselves their best, and he wants to give that to me. Now, how would I learn to understand? Just last week we talked about our salvation experiences.

[Bev]

Right?

[Bill]

I, at 17, made a decision to believe and trust that Jesus was God and my Savior.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And am I able to trust Him? And. And I know my next words confuse people. I keep working at making them better, but can I learn to trust him with me? With me? Who am I? Do you know? Many of us struggle with any sense of identity, any sense of a reality, any way of being able to describe who I am and yet is in this thing called experiencing grace, can I believe that God's declaration of himself is that he is for me, I want to trust that God. I want to trust that God. I want to trust the God who went to a place called Calvary for me. As we go through this time together, we'll we'll learn together some aspects of grace that are broader than my salvation experience.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

The eternal God coming from the realm of grace to die on a cross so that he could take me into his realm, that God can be trusted. I want to trust that God.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And when I do, he promised me grace.

[Scott]

So what does it look like when you trust him with me? When you say trust God with me?

[Bill]

Yeah.

[Scott]

Does that mean you. You stop hiding from God? You.

[Bill]

Ah, excellent. What it means in part, yeah. It means that. It means that I'm a character. My name is Bill. I have a life, and I'm afraid to be known. Life has taught me something. People who probably should have loved me didn't. Some people abuse me. I've learned to shut me out from you. I've learned to not trust anyone.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

I don't want to get. I don't get hurt anymore. So. So when I say trust God with me, can I trust God with my reality that I am alone, Afraid. We talked about this last week, and he can sympathize with me because he's been there, but without sin. I love that God. I love that Jesus. I want to trust him with the essence of who I am. It's amazing, Scott. As you know, I sit across the table from lots of people. It is amazing the number of leaders that I've met with who have preached the gospel their whole lives, and they've trusted Jesus with their sin, but they've never trusted Jesus with their life.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

They have never said, I give you my life, Jesus.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And so that miracle of the gift. Let's take a couple minutes. Scott, just read that portion from Romans chapter five.

[Bev]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott]

So it's Romans 5:15 is where we're going to start. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift of the grace of the one man. Jesus abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation. But the free gift, following many trespasses, brought justification. If because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners. So by the one man's obedience, the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass. But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more so that as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness, leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Bill]

Amen.

[Scott]

These are big words.

[Bill]

Oh, big words and big thoughts. In that portion, Paul is describing the tragedy, the human tragedy of the condemnation on humanity because of Adam's sin.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And the death, the separation from God reality in that condemnation because of Adam's sin. But the words he uses that I really want us to pick up on today as we think about grace. He says, but much more, much more.

[Scott]

Will those who receive the abundance of grace.

[Bill]

Much more. What he's saying is this. Guys, I. Paul, I'm going to describe something to you. The greatest day of human tragedy is this. Oh, but I want to tell you something much more than that. Much more than the immense extension of that into all humanity. I want to tell you something even greater called grace. Is this what Adam did? Is he led man to condemnation in his sin? Jesus much more came to do something to justify the sinner. Much more did Adam bring humanity to death. But Jesus, much, much more did Jesus come. And in the gift of righteousness to all who accept Christ, leading to eternal life. What you mean no matter how broad and deep and sick and reality of. By the way, humanity's been around a while, sin's been doing its work. I don't know. I don't know a lot about history, but I think there's some places in history didn't go so well, and that's horrific.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

But he says much more than that. I'll tell you something much more than that. The grace of God is greater than all of that. All of that. The grace of God is greater.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

What Jesus did is he offered life to all who have died.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

That's what he's done. What Jesus did is he's come to bring into a right relationship with God all who have been brought to condemnation. How big is this gift? This gift is greater than the immensity of sin.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

That's how great this gift is.

[Scott]

Yeah. When you think of the mess that the world is in.

[Bill]

Oh, I watch a movie the other day about World War II and I'm going, the mess of those five years, I mean, what, grace is greater than that? Yeah, it is. Then sometimes we hear people say, why didn't God do something about this? Every time I hear somebody say that now, not every time, but every time I get a chance to, I'll say that he did do something about this.

[Scott]

He did, didn't he?

[Bill]

Yeah, he did something about this. You know what he did? He went to a place called Calvary and he actually died for the tragedy that you are wondering why he didn't do something about. And you know what he did? He did that to bring life to those who have now caused such tragedy of death. We started this by you asking me a question. Can we sometimes think too little about grace? We can.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

We could think too little about grace because we can start to blame God for not love, not being love. We can blame God for not being of grace because we look at the circumstances for which we see no solution, instead of at the God who has created at Calvary a solution to all of our circumstances. That's the gift of grace. Yeah, that's the gift of grace. Romans, chapter 11, verse 6.

[Scott]

Yeah, just.

[Bill]

Just read that one verse.

[Scott]

But if it's by grace, it's no longer on the basis of works. Otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

[Bill]

Do you know how we limit grace? Not because we don't trust its immensity. You know how we limit it?

[Scott]

How do we limit it?

[Bill]

We limit it because we think we have a part in it.

[Scott]

Right.

[Bill]

You know how you limit grace? By making works part of your reality.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

For my grace, he saved, and not by works. So. So what robs me of grace? My effort to do something about my reality. What limits grace? My looking at my circumstances and wondering why God didn't do something about him.

[Scott]

When he already has.

[Bill]

When he already has. What limits grace? When I misunderstand, teasingly said to you recently, this whole concept of sin management, this whole concept of attempting to work harder on my sin, to become godly, is in fact robbing me of the grace I need. That is in fact the foundation for my godliness. And so what limits grace? I do. But how do I limit grace? Oh, I need grace. No. You know how you limit grace when somehow you think you're partnering with God in the development of your reality?

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

In Galatians, he talks about this phenomenon that took place in that early church in which he says that who has bewitched you?

[Bev]

Right.

[Bill]

And he's talking about who has preached a gospel other than this gospel of grace.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And the question I write there is who would make a requirement of law a condition of grace? You know how we limit grace when we make the requirement of law a condition of grace?

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And what is that. That needs to be. He says, let him be accursed. It's like he's saying the worst of things, set them aside. But we don't do that today. Church after church, Sunday after Sunday, century after century, keeps preaching a message that you get saved by grace. But your whole godliness depends on your effort. You're becoming more godly because you somehow can work on sin. Sin management is an oxymoron.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

You know why it's an oxymoron? Because sin can't be managed.

[Scott]

Sin management says that we don't need the cross of Christ.

[Bill]

Exactly.

[Scott]

We just need our effort.

[Bill]

Is there a way to deal with sin apart from Calvary?

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

The answer will always be no. The answer will always be no. Sin cannot be managed. It has to always be redeemed. This is an interesting insight. When Jesus went to the cross, he shed his blood for my redemption.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

That's what he did. There is no redemption apart from the shed blood of Christ. None.

[Bev]

Right.

[Bill]

None. No religion, no faith, no church, no cult. Nobody can do this thing that can match this amazing grace of God that Jesus did at Calvary. What did he do? You and I, just. Last session, we talked about receiving Jesus as our personal saviors. Trusting him, us. Trusting my sin with. To him. And over these many years, as we'll talk about in coming weeks, trusting my life with him. As I have received Christ Jesus, my Lord, I will walk in him. Are we preaching a consistent message? Are people really hearing that the way to godliness is the same as the way to salvation? It totally depends on the work of Christ.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

That's the gift.

[Scott]

When I've taught this before, the objection then comes, well, you mean we're supposed to do nothing? Yeah, which is interesting, because what it means is what they've been doing is trying to manage your sin.

[Bill]

Exactly.

[Scott]

And what actually happens when you lay down, you surrender to God's grace and you let. You know, God, I. I want to. I gotta get. I can't deal with this. We then get to actually love one another. We get to enjoy life. We get to actually begin to discover our gifting. We get to begin to labor into a calling. That's what we do.

[Bill]

Amen. And.

[Scott]

But everybody else is doing this other thing.

[Bill]

Exactly. To get to someplace where we already are. But you just said something. And I just can't pass on it as that says. You mean I get to do nothing? I've had the privilege of, Scott, of sitting across the table pretty close to somebody, looking them in the eyes and saying, This I think you've discovered, haven't you, how hard it is to let go. Yeah, you don't get to do nothing. You need to let go. Mechanical. See? It's hard, isn't it? Yeah, it's hard. You're not the answer. I know I'm not the answer. Then let go. Well, I can't let go. Oh, it's harder than you thought, isn't it? So trust isn't just a blind. I don't get to do anything. You actually get to do something.

[Scott]

No. And then when people really get it and they start to, like, you start to see them change, you're like, oh, my gosh, this is way harder than I ever imagined.

[Bill]

Exactly. And you go, oh, I can see why people don't do it. Yeah, it's an old truism, but it's always in the human heart. Easier to imagine you're doing something for God than it is to let God do something for you. Yeah, that's our tragedy. I gotta learn to receive a gift. I gotta let this God who loves.

[Scott]

Me give me this gift.

[Bill]

Give me this gift. Could I just do that and sure, if I receive the gift, I gotta let go. Yeah, but that's really hard. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. But. But I don't know if you have enough courage to look at your life. Did you notice it ain't going well? Have you ever thought about the fact that you're holding on to something that ain't working? Hello. So. So not to get into that, except. Except to say this as hard as it is. Can my God meet me there?

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

Teach me, God, to trust you with me.

[Scott]

It's amazing place to begin to get there.

[Bill]

Oh, my gosh.

[Scott]

To. Because when you get there, you. You no longer have to defend yourself. And when you get to lay that energy down and instead receive. Receive.

[Bill]

Amen.

[Scott]

It's like. It's like putting a new pair of glasses on where you see leaves on the trees and you didn't see them before.

[Bill]

Exactly.

[Scott]

The whole world looks different.

[Bill]

It does. And it should.

[Bev]

Yeah.

[Bill]

And it should. So this gift is amazing. Let's keep experiencing it together.

[Scott]

All right, we'll keep. We'll keep working on this grace time topic, won't we?

[Bill]

Exactly.

[Bev]

All right.

[Scott]

Hope to see you next week. Thanks for joining.

[Bill]

Thank you.

[Scott]

Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here, and so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it. We would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.