What It Means to Die With Christ

Summary

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Living Influence with Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd

Episode: What It Means to Die With Christ
Date: August 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Bill Thrall and Scott Boyd dive into the spiritual implications of the phrase, "I have been crucified with Christ," exploring what it truly means to die with Christ. The hosts wrestle with how this reality transforms a believer's identity, shame, and relationship to sin, law, and grace. Drawing from Galatians 2 and their own experiences, Bill and Scott candidly dissect the difference between living out of old patterns of striving and shame versus embracing the freedom and acceptance God offers through Christ’s finished work.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Question: Did I Really Die with Christ?

• Bill (A) starts with the provocative query: "Did I really die? I don't feel dead." (00:03)
• The co-hosts agree this is their “favorite topic: Death”—not just physical, but spiritual.

2. Scripture Foundation: Galatians 2

• Bill quotes, "I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me…" (00:16 - 00:38)
• The hosts focus on what it means that Christ not only died for our sins, but brings us into His death, fundamentally changing our spiritual identity.

3. Dying to Shame and the Old Self

• Bill highlights the radical nature of Christ’s work:
  Quote: "When I died in Christ, I actually died to shame...I ain't who I used to be and I never will be again." (01:44)
• Discusses the tension many Christians feel when confronting the idea of being crucified with Christ, often not realizing its full practical implications (02:36)
• Paul’s teaching in Romans is cited: being "dead to sin, dead to the law… now under grace." (02:36)

4. The Futility of Striving and Surrender

• The hosts humorously recount the common Christian emphasis on “surrender,” especially in accountability and men’s groups:
  Scott: "I just got to surrender more." (04:06)
  Bill: "There is no greater surrender than death…You can't be more surrendered than death. And guess what happened to me at Calvary? I died." (04:34)
• The futility of trying to manage shame or sin by self-effort is discussed:
  Bill: "My attempting to deal with my shame by giving up more of me is useless." (04:41)

5. Letting God Define Us Instead of Our Experiences

• The importance of not letting personal experiences define one’s identity:
  Bill: "What if I learned to let my God define me? ...Bill, I want you to know you’ve died." (04:59-05:24)
• Scott references Galatians 2: practicing faith means living by what God says is true, not by our own experience of failure.

6. Dead to Law, Alive to Grace

• Bill explores the difference between living under the law and living under grace:
  Bill: "A dead person can't honor the law. If I'm dead and I've died to the law, then the law is no longer my objective…he says I’m under grace." (06:19-07:09)
• Living in shame is equated to seeing oneself as a sinner, rather than as a new creation in Christ.

7. Real-Life Application: Men's Groups and Accountability

• Scott shares his personal experiences in accountability groups, reflecting on how dwelling on vulnerability without the solution found in Christ’s death kept them stuck:
  Scott: "We don’t have a solution somehow. Although God says there’s a solution… What does it look like if we actually had that same meeting and we believe we were dead?" (08:43-09:30)

8. God’s Perspective vs. Self-Perception

• Bill imagines God saying, “Could you please trust me? ...I've already solved [your shame] in you.” (09:39-10:36)
• The hosts stress that acting upon the truth of being dead with Christ is the mark of faith:
  Bill: "You know you trust something if you act upon it." (10:44)

9. Living in the Light of Grace

• By acting on what God says is true, shortcomings lose their power to condemn:
  Scott: "I can bring them into the light and they don’t condemn me." (11:14-11:32)
• The completeness of Christ’s work is underscored:
  Bill: "It is finished. ...He conquered sin when he said it is finished. And the proof...is that he rose again." (11:54-12:53)

10. Saints, Not Sinners: A New Identity

• The group explores why believers are called saints, not sinners, in the New Testament:
  Scott: "Never in the New Testament are we referred to as sinners. No, only saints." (14:20-14:25)
• Bill and Scott discuss how righteousness is a received gift, not an earned status (15:13-15:17), freeing them from pride and comparison.

11. From Legalism to Love

• Bill reflects on his upbringing in a legalistic church:
  Bill: "They were constantly measuring each other by how little they sinned...It was such an unsafe environment." (15:33-16:28)
• In contrast, he points to measuring one’s life by God’s declaration: being dead with Christ means we live by our new identity (16:29).
• The more believers experience love, the less they sin; love responds to sin not with condemnation but with grace, affirming a person’s true identity (17:05-17:35).

12. Grace, Freedom, and Practical Implications

• Scott notes: “I will still sin. You will sin. ...But if the response is love, first love covers a multitude of sins...and love brings me back.” (17:14-17:35)
• Allowing others to love us, and receiving love, is reframed as an act of spiritual maturity and freedom.
  Bill: "This is called love. But it’s different." (18:18-18:21)
• Living "dead to shame" means living without condemnation:
  Bill: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus...In Christ Jesus, I'm dead." (18:54-19:12)

13. Conclusion: The Invitation to Trust and Freedom

• The episode closes with a challenge:
  Bill: "What would it be like if I could trust my God with my dying so that my behavior, my shame, and the law would no longer define me? ...That's called freedom." (19:38-20:11)
• Bill urges listeners:
  Bill: "Get on your knees and ask your God to teach you that you are dead in Christ so you can experience his grace." (20:13)
• Scott affirms:
  Scott: “Am I really dead? Yes. In Jesus, I am. That makes all the difference.” (20:31-20:38)

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "I ain't who I used to be and I never will be again." — Bill (01:44)
• "There is no greater surrender than death...I died." — Bill (04:34)
• "My attempting to deal with my shame by giving up more of me is useless." — Bill (04:41)
• "You know you trust something if you act upon it." — Bill (10:44)
• "It is finished... He conquered sin when he said it is finished. And the proof...is that he rose again." — Bill (11:54-12:53)
• "Never in the New Testament are we referred to as sinners. No, only saints." — Scott (14:20-14:25)
• "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." — Bill (18:54)
• "That's called freedom." — Bill (20:11)
• "Am I really dead? Yes. In Jesus, I am. That makes all the difference." — Scott (20:31-20:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:03: Opening—“Did I really die? I don't feel dead.”
• 00:16 - 00:39: Galatians 2 quoted—setting the scriptural foundation.
• 01:44: Dying to shame; new identity in Christ.
• 04:06 - 04:34: Surrender vs. death—a critique of Christian striving.
• 06:19 - 07:09: Transition from law to grace.
• 09:30 - 10:36: God’s view vs. our self-perception.
• 10:44: On trusting and acting upon God’s truth.
• 11:54 - 12:53: "It is finished"—completeness of Christ’s work.
• 14:20 - 14:25: “Never referred to as sinners, only saints.”
• 15:33 - 16:28: Legalism and the consequences.
• 17:04 - 17:35: The role of love in practical Christian living.
• 18:54: No condemnation in Christ.
• 19:38 - 20:11: Freedom through trusting God with our dying.
• 20:31-20:38: Affirmation of the new identity.

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Tone and Style

The conversation is warm, disarmingly honest, gentle, and at times playful. Bill and Scott routinely share personal stories, challenge long-standing Christian assumptions, and encourage listeners to embrace their identity in Christ—free from shame and striving. Their dialogue is infused with hope and an inviting call to deeper trust.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a profound re-framing of what it means to die with Christ. Rather than an invitation to endless striving or self-improvement, Bill and Scott paint a picture of spiritual rest, grace, and freedom found in accepting one’s death and new life in Christ. The influence of a Christ-follower, they assert, flows not from self-perfection but from embracing the reality of being unconditionally loved and completely remade through Christ’s finished work.

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Transcript

[A]

Did I really die? I don't feel dead. Welcome to Living Influence, this podcast. We're going to talk about just maybe our favorite topic. Death.

[B]

I can't wait.

[A]

Yeah, but there is important. It is very important, very important. And there's a scripture in Galatians, one of my favorites. I've been crucified with Christ. It's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me and the.

[B]

Life that I live, I live by faith.

[C]

By faith who loved me and gave himself for me.

[A]

Yeah, great.

[B]

Critical verse. Yeah, critical verse. I wonder what it means.

[A]

Yeah, what does it mean?

[C]

I feel like we should be living that. Don't you know about it?

[B]

I wonder. I wonder about that. You know, so far, we've been imagining some things. One thing to imagine. Is Jesus able. We started with this reality as a Christian, is Jesus able to die for my sin? Can I trust him with that? You wouldn't be a Christian if you didn't. Then we went into the subject of, did Jesus take upon him my shame? Is he able to do that? If he is, can I trust him with that? What if I was no longer responsible for my shame because somebody greater than me took care of it? What if that were true? But today's subject is an interesting subject. Can I trust him? Is he able, at Calvary, to bring me into his death? I am crucified in Christ. What does that mean? If we believed it? What it means is this, that at Calvary, those who trusted in him were on purpose by him brought into death. Now, if that's true, and I believe it is, I'm crucified with Christ. If that's true, then something uniquely happens in death. Do you know that when I died in Christ, I actually died to shame? The shame that I defined me forever. I died to it. So I say it sarcastically, but it's a true statement. The work of Christ at Calvary did something. He made me new. I ain't who I used to be and I never will be again.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because that person died. And in Romans, Paul extends it, he says, you know that you're. You're dead to sin. You're dead to the law, because you now live under grace. When we do our cohort ministry and I sit with these Christian leaders and we get to this point, I can just tell the tension in the room is. I've never really thought about the fact that I actually died, that Jesus did something at Calvary where he took me into his death. Why would he do that? Because I will. And that's our Next podcast. But I'll never experience life in Christ until I've experienced dying in Christ.

[C]

And it needs to be all of me.

[B]

All of.

[C]

Right, all of me. Not just my sin.

[B]

No, it's me.

[C]

But everything that. But all of me, what came with it, the feelings, the feeling of inadequacy, all of it was taken and completely put to death. That's what's taught. That's what's hard to believe.

[B]

It is Voldemort. And part of that is this reality that there's always an angst in the Christian community in some way where. Oh, I think I finally figured it out. What's going to really deal with my shame is my surrender. What I'm going to do is I'm going to surrender.

[A]

I just got to surrender more.

[B]

I just got to surrender more, in fact.

[C]

So let's get together a men's group accountability. Man's group and. And practice surrendering together.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Hold each other accountable.

[B]

Accountable to surrendering.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And. And how's that going? But anyway, the.

[C]

The reality the group doesn't meet anymore.

[B]

I was. I was talking to a friend of mine just a few weeks ago. He's preparing some lessons on surrender. And I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, but I said to him, there is no greater surrender than death. No.

[A]

No greater.

[B]

You can't be more surrendered than death. And guess what happened to me at Calvary? I died.

[C]

Amen.

[B]

My attempting to deal with my shame by giving up more of me is useless. What if I could trust.

[A]

It's powerful. Useless.

[B]

It's useless. Thank you. It is useless.

[A]

Useless.

[B]

And it is powerful. Yeah, but what if I could learn something? What if I could learn that as we've said earlier, my experience shouldn't define me? What if I learned to let my God define me? And what if in discovering God's definition of me, he would say to me, bill, I want you to know you've died?

[A]

I think if you look at Galatians 2 and you go a couple verses before. Go ahead. It addresses this. It says, but if in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, my experience. Is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

My experience does. That's what it's saying. My experience that I've been found to be a sinner doesn't define me.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. It's like we're trying to. Well, we're trying to rebuild the law Trying to rebuild our life again. For through the law, I died to the law so that I might live to God. I've been crucified with Christ. I just. I think those verses before that which most often aren't read. Yeah, thank you. Talk about the experience doesn't define you, Scott.

[B]

You are. That's good. Absolutely. Thank you. You're right on. If I'm dead d and my shame cannot define me. Shame does not address itself in death. It's done. And if I'm dead and I've died to the law, then the law is no longer my objective. A dead person can't honor the law, then what is true? Because he doesn't just say that I'm dead to the law. He says I'm under grace. And that's what we're talking about. How do I live in my new reality defined by grace? My old reality defined me well. The law defined me well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The sinner, it defined me well. It accused me and it was right.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

And in that accusation, I felt shame, and that was right. But wait a minute. Could I, as a Christian, live in a new reality? Well, if I'm dead to the law, but I now am alive, and we'll talk about that part next session. But under grace, if as a Christian, I still see myself as a sinner, I am living in my shame. And I know what it's like to live condemned. I know what that's like. I've said to lots of audiences over the years, the circumstances of my life growing up especially caused me to be hurt a lot. But nobody ever hurt me as much as I did, right? No. Nobody ever affected the guy who's talking more than the choices I made because of my shame. I gave myself permission because of shame to live into the fact I didn't matter. I'm not proud of that, but that was my reality. But if under grace, I'm dead now alive. And if under grace, then wait a minute. I want to sin less. I really do. But how do I sin less?

[C]

This is taking me back to my mid-30s. We just kind of talked briefly about accountability groups and men's group. And so I just had real heart for other men and just fellowshipping.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I remember this. This mindset. I just taken back to this heart I have, which was, let's.

[B]

Let's.

[C]

Let's deal with our shortcomings. Right? I wanted to mature. So we'd meet and I'd be like, all right, let's get on with this. Let's get on with vulnerability and Dealing with our sin. I'll go first. I'll go first. So I was open. I was vulnerable. This is feeling good. This is feeling good. It's a question for us that actually did the opposite. Because the idea was so this feeling of, I am. I'm connected with my brothers, we're being real, but we don't have a solution somehow. Although God says there's a solution. So what does it look like if we actually had that same meeting and we believe we were dead? Like, what, practically? What does that look like?

[B]

Yeah, that's a great question. If in that same meeting I were to disclose to you my reality, I would recognize that that's who I used to be. That's how I saw myself in my yesterdays, because I don't clearly see myself in my todays. How does God see me? So the question is, how does God see me when I still see myself in my shame? Does he see me as I see me? No, never. Does he see me as needing to do more, to think better of myself? You know how he sees me? He sees me saying, could you please trust me? You're still struggling with it, vulnerable. But could you just trust me? Do you know that I actually took you to the place of death? So this feeling that you're constantly living with that's plaguing you and you and your friends never solve, I've already solved in you.

[C]

Amazing. Amazing.

[B]

That's called grace.

[A]

I know grace. You have this saying that you say, how do you know if you trust something?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the answer is, you know. You trust something if you act upon it.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

If Jesus really did change me to begin to trust, that is to imagine that it's true.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And to act on the truth.

[B]

Amen. 10,000 times.

[A]

I know there are things in my life that I trust because I act on them. Every morning I have a cup of coffee because I know the coffee is going to make me feel good and wake me up. But I act on that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so if I can begin to put on what God says is true and imagine it's true, I get to stop worrying about my shortcomings. I can leave them, actually. I can bring them into the light and they don't condemn me.

[B]

That's a good way to say it. Bring them into the light without condemning you.

[C]

Which all makes sense. And it's almost like we need to remind each other, because Jesus did say it is finished. We can't add anything to it. It's so complete. And even as we're talking about this My heart is saying it's true.

[B]

It's true.

[C]

I want to try again.

[B]

Yeah, it's true now, follower, your statement just right there, it is finished. That has a lot to do with what we're talking about. What's finished? What did he finish? Do you know? He brought sin to death. I want you to know that he brought sin. He conquered sin when he said it is finished. And the proof that he conquered sin is that he rose again. Now here's a miracle. Is he capable of bringing me to death? Is he also capable of bringing me to life? We're going to talk about that in our next podcast. What does that mean, to be brought into life? I will never live in to the new life I have in Christ until I deal, as God has, with the fact that I am dead. I am crucified with Christ means that I'm not who I used to be. And yet everything in my behavior and often everything in the theology of the church wants to keep me in the identity of a sinner. And he's going, I'll use your words. It's finished, guys, it's finished. It worked. Guys, you're not watching. My name is Jesus. I'm alive. I want you to know it worked. Sin is conquered. How do I know it's conquered? I'm alive. Listen to me. Hello, Anybody listening? We just don't, we don't teach this. I, I'm just telling you, when I do my cohorts on influence and we get to this section, there's always a long pause in the audience to really say if I believe that everything would be different. And the answer is that's called grace. Everything is called faith. It's called trust. It's called acting upon. When you were saying that a minute ago, it triggered in me this reality in talk about it, but I want to just mention it now. The I am alive and righteousness is my name. I am alive and righteousness is my reality.

[A]

That kind of sounds heretical.

[B]

I'm not surprised. But.

[C]

And yeah, you said before, it's like never in the New Testament are we referred to as sinners. No, only saints.

[B]

Saints. Why? Why? Because that's real.

[A]

And when it is because of God's declaration, because of Jesus's work on the cross. It's true about me. Because of that, not because of my effort. Absolutely managing my sin. Because there are people, I know a few of them that are actually pretty good at managing their sin. Yeah, I mean they're just very well, they make lists, they cross them off, they never Procrastinate every. Their house is always. Their desk is always clean. Those kind of people, there's an underside that we're missing. I'm sure. But you know what you get when what those people struggle with, they struggle with pride.

[B]

Absolutely. Because they. They can't help but be.

[A]

That's the gift from earning, when we actually pull it off.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Is that we're more. So God gives us this gift of righteousness. That's a gift.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

We can delight in the gift. And what's happened to me and who I now am. And there's no pride in me. Because you can have this too.

[B]

Exactly. I don't have to compare now.

[A]

No, no, we talked about that.

[B]

I don't have to compare. I get to receive my background. I grew up in a. In a pretty legalistic environment. And they would preach Galatians 2, crucified with Christ, but they didn't live it because they were constantly measuring each other by how little they sinned. They were constantly measuring each other by how godly they were or were not. And it does something. We talked about it a while ago. That gives us a chance to judge each other, to compare with each other, to blame each other. And that's the way they lived. It was such an unsafe environment. It was such an unsafe environment. But I want to come back to the premise of right now. How would we know that they weren't believing they were crucified in Christ because they were still measuring their lives by their behavior.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, when I believe that I am dead, I measure my life by who God says I am. And I, as God wisely said a few minutes ago, and therefore I begin to act upon who God says I am. And as Jesus taught this, if I act upon who God says I am, that I am righteous, I will start to practice love.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I will start to allow characters like you two guys to love me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, what happens in that reality is the more we experience love, the less we will sin.

[C]

And then practically speaking, because I will still sin. You will sin.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We may hurt each other, but if the response is love, first love covers a multitude of sins. I talked about that a while back. It makes me realize that's not who I am or who I have to be. And love brings me back.

[B]

Amen.

[C]

So what's true? It bring us back. Us to what's true. To what's true.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So practically spe. Because I. I always think that's important. Is our flesh still sins.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

But if I'm Judged back or compared back, that's not going to help. That's going to entice more. But the response of love that you can offer me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's.

[C]

For some reason, that's healing, that's freeing.

[A]

Bill, you've taught me that in our relationship and that you let me love you.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

You'll let me give a gift to you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you're like. You just. It's not like, no, don't do that. You just like, thank you, and you enjoy it. And it's like, oh, my gosh, this is. This is different.

[B]

This is called love.

[A]

This is.

[B]

But it's different.

[C]

Allowing a need to be met, you know?

[A]

You know, because most of them. Oh, no, you shouldn't have done that. No, no, no. I'm going to have to do something for you. And. And there's a. There's a difference in a relationship when love is.

[B]

So thank you for that.

[A]

That in it.

[B]

Yeah. So is Jesus able to bring me to death? And did my shame die in him? Yeah, because in grace, I can live without condemnation.

[A]

Yeah, it's amazing.

[B]

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. And we kind of miss the point in that sometimes. In Christ Jesus, you know what's true about me? In Christ Jesus, I'm dead. I'm dead in Christ Jesus. But you know what's amazing to me? In Christ Jesus, the one I'm dead and rose from the dead that I'm a part of, he literally took me out of death with him. With him. When he rose, I rose with him. I am alive today because I died in Christ. I'm screaming kind of when I say these words, but can I pause for a minute and just ponder this? Please, Anybody, Everybody? What would it be like if I could trust my God with my dying so that my behavior, my shame, and the law would no longer define me? Wow. Oh, that's called. I love your favorite word. That's called freedom. Yeah, that's called freedom. And that's his promise to us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how do I say this to you? Out here, all of you, get on your knees and ask your God to teach you that you are dead in Christ so you can experience his grace.

[A]

Am I really dead? Yes. In Jesus, I am.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

That makes all the difference.

[B]

Absolutely. Scott. Let us believe that.

[A]

Yeah. Amen. Thanks for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe. Don't forget to share this with friends. Friends. We're really excited to have this content. I'm really excited to get Bill's voice out for more people to hear. He's been a huge influence in our lives. Thank you for listening to the podcast. We're really glad that you're here. We'd love to know that you're here. And so if you could leave a comment, we would appreciate that. But more importantly, if you know someone that should listen to this or hear it, we would love for you to share it with them. Thanks again.