Jeff Alex (3:18)

It might been Covid because if you had it with a Covid booster and there was a lot of talk, wasn't there?

Francis Loye (3:23)

Yeah, yeah. Interestingly, it was really immediately the day after I got the booster that things went really downhill. I really felt my body went into overdrive and any of the small symptoms that I had really, really took off. But the, the biggest, sharpest one was the, the Cog fog. And interestingly, you know, there was Covid testers at the time. I don't actually think I ever tested positive for Covid during the whole time of COVID So that was really interesting. I, I was supplementing with the vitamin D at the time. Don't know if that was something that was protective. But yeah, the definitely for me and I anecdotally speaking to other people around the COVID Covid booster time, I think a lot of people experienced an increase in their symptoms. Yeah, I certainly there's.

Jeff Alex (4:07)

I, I still now connect. I'll only have Pfizer because the other one, the other main one they use, I can't remember the name but that causes me. It just ramps up my symptoms. Yeah, every time.

Francis Loye (4:20)

And so, so I made a, a decision that was the last time I was taking the booster, basically.

Jeff Alex (4:25)

So, and you're following Overcoming Ms. So how did you discover Overcoming ms?

Francis Loye (4:30)

So, yeah, yeah, I actually discovered the Overcoming Ms. Very early on the day before I was due to meet my neurologist face to face, as many people. Did you sort of research really avidly, you know, what is going to help me on this journey. And I remember going online searching what would give me a bit of hope. And I came across OMS the website and I remember reading about it and that was the day I started on that journey, and that was the last day I talked to Ari, was the day before that. Because it gave me such a feeling of, I suppose, hope in what I really needed at that time. You know, the book, the book and the, the website, it's sort of full of research based approaches and real life stories which really resonated with me. I had looked at other protocols. We know there's, there's various, various ones out there. But OMS was something that didn't push supplements, didn't push products. It was just what I felt was really, really empowering at 1. It aligned to sort of my, my values and my belief, especially around the power of lifestyle and mindset. What really moved me was generation, the generosity, sorry of the community. And I remember doing a zoom call with Alex very early on, who was very generous of his time and another guy called Gabriel Farkin. And they were a time where I would have said I was really, really vulnerable, where again, I had a lot of fear and that kindness meant the world to me and, and ever since I've been doing my best to pay that forward to anybody that is newly diagnosed or anybody that reaches out. Because I think as a community we get each other and we're here to sort of lift each other up and we can be a real powerful motivator to each other because we know during that period of diagnosis it can be a lonely and isolating time. Not necessarily you don't have access to the services, et cetera. So I think for me it gave a sense of purpose and calmness to that. So for me it was a real lifesaver.

Jeff Alex (6:21)

Yeah, I think you're right. I don't think anyone gets it unless you've got ms, including your neurologist, your partner, your parents. Other people with Ms. Understand that they straight away they're like, oh yeah, I get it. I get what you mean by cog for I get what you mean by fatigue.

Francis Loye (6:35)

It's like, yeah, no, no. And that's what I think the power of the community is. And now as a result of meeting people through, you know, the Overcoming Ms. Community, we have that network of people who get each other. You know, we're able to lift the phone or drop a WhatsApp till somebody understand what you're going through and have walked the same walk as you. So like, I know we're going to speak in a couple of minutes about the retreat. I met Ross through that retreat and we're still friends. And I have another friend, Vincent, who is a very active Guy in Belgium who follows OMS protocol. And Vincent came from Belgium to stay here in Ireland with me for the weekend. But it's having that network of people that understand the journey you're on, or if you have a bad day or you're down with something that you just ping them a message and you're there to sort of lift each other up and encourage each other. So I think that's one of the real hidden gems of OMs, is that power of community within it.

Jeff Alex (7:22)

And so of the protocols. How did you find it to adapt your lifestyle to overcoming ms? And did you find some of them easier and harder than others to adapt to?

Francis Loye (7:33)

So, like, for me, I suppose I'm blessed in a way that even before the overcoming Ms. Sort of approach, my diet, I would have said, would been really reasonably good because it was pretty active. I suppose the biggest change was the dairy and the meat. For me, I just went cold turkey. I didn't need a massive amount of persuasion. The evidence was there. And for me it was empowering for me to take control. And probably the hardest pillar was the emotional side of things and managing the stress and staying grounded and navigating the uncertainty that AMS brings. We all know it can be unpredictable and there are certain days that test you and the test the power of your. Of your mind. But I done a lot of work in the early days, particularly a lot of reading around Joe Dispenza's work, and that really helped. I sort of reframed the approach, I guess, not to have it as a battle in my head. It was more for me, trying to find balance in my life. So I don't use the term warrior or fight. For me, it's trying to find that equilibrium, maybe. And again, just reflecting, maybe that was my body's way of saying no. At a time in my life where I just needed to readjust, things were maybe out of kilter and work and priorities and stress, but that has given me an opportunity to refocus, you know, and find more balance. So, probably, yeah, the diet and the exercise, I find quite easy. I'm blessed. I enjoy training. So it's a. It's. It's a good part of my life. Don't struggle with that. And the diet's the same, probably the emotional side of things and managing stress is something that I've worked on. I. I sort of equate that to, like a muscle you have. It's your mind. You have to work on that. It's not something that comes naturally. So it's about catching those negative thoughts, acknowledging them and leaning into it, and just understand that everybody lives with uncertainty. Just because we've Ms. Doesn't necessarily mean that we're different than anybody else. But it's sort of reframing that in our mind and sort of channeling that, I guess, into our sense of why and our sense of purpose.

Jeff Alex (9:30)

Yeah, I think especially at the beginning, they say, you've got an incurable illness. Don't get stressed.

Regina Beach (9:36)

Yeah.

Francis Loye (9:37)

Yes. Yeah, yeah. I remember, like my neurologist at the very start said, don't go reading about it. You know, don't, don't go. That's going to worry. You know, you're thinking like this is the last thing you're not going to do, you know? Yeah, you just, you just scissors. But you want, you want to be empowering, I suppose, and a sense of advocacy and a sense of agency. And I think the overcoming Ms. Gives you that sense that you are going to make a difference to this journey. You're not relying on something external. It's what you do day and daily, that's going to make a real difference to the outcomes of this. So that sense of agency that the OMS gives, I think is really powerful.

Jeff Alex (10:11)

And. And you're a father. So one of the pillars is the. Is the family health pillars. How do you approach family health? Having children?

Francis Loye (10:21)

Yeah, so listen, I'm not going to say we're perfect. We do our best. I suppose so. I'm a dad of three, so, yeah, I suppose we began quite quickly with supplementing the vitamin D. We knew the evidence was there. Naturally, through time, we probably have ate less meat in the house. Again, the children are not forced not to eat meat, they're not forced not to eat chicken, etc. They get their choice. We definitely have reduced processed food. We're not perfect. They still do have, you know, their chicken nuggets or whatever it is at times. But I think the biggest influence in terms of my journey probably has been the exercise. My kids are really active, so they're involved in swimming and football and they're always in the move and it's a huge part of our family culture. So I suppose for me, I think that competing in adaptive sports has been a powerful medium for me to talk about my diagnosis to my children. I was really reluctant at first because as a parent, you never want to cause your child or children fear anxiety. But I think, I suppose we all know this, that children are more resilient than we think. So even, for example, last week I had my Infusion. And this was the first time in the four years that I spoke to my children about Daddy going for his infusion, because I felt it was the right time. I know we're going to go on and speak about my experience in the Adaptive World Championships, but that was an opportunity for me to explain to them that Daddy was competing in a different category and that there was an opportunity due to my condition or my diagnosis. But I think what speaks louder than anything is your actions by a dad living well, training hard, showing up every, every day, that you're able to demonstrate that we can overcome hard things, that we have a sense of resilience. And I think by walking the walk for your children, it's really important. Like, I remember Jack, my youngest boy, wanted Dolly to come home with the trophy for a show and tell in school. So that was my motivator, going around the course at the dark times. Like, I just wanted to make sure I had the medal for Jack as a proud dad. They take it into the school, you know, the following week. So, yeah, my attitude has changed with the children, you know, through time, you know, and sport has enabled me to take them along on my journey to sort of communicate to them what this is about, I suppose, but also show them that everything's going to be all right as well.

Jeff Alex (12:29)

Yeah. And so you've mentioned the retreat you went on. So you've been on an overcoming Ms. Retreat. So can you tell us a bit about that experience and what the takeaways you have from going on a retreat?

Francis Loye (12:40)

Yes. So I went on the OMS retreat two years ago. And, yeah, I'm not going to lie, I was probably slightly nervous. It was the first time I was going to be in a room with people, with the majority of people who had ms, and I. I didn't know what to expect. I went on my own and it was a bit daunting, but to be honest, it was a really powerful, powerful weekend. And I think the one thing that sort of moved me was everybody came with a sense of vulnerability and honesty about their journey. And the reality really hit home. You know, we've all walked a very similar walk in terms of what we went through during our period of diagnosis. But it was that deep sense of community which really permeated throughout the whole weekend. And I can't ignore the amazing food that they put on, which was really incredible that you could relax and just enjoy the food, because everybody follows the OMS diet, how difficult it is to eat out. But I made some great friends there, and including Ross. I'm gonna make a shout out, big shout out to Ross. We still keep in contact. We're a bit of an accountability gym buddy, so he probably got the short straw with me. But it's again, it's somebody that you can reach out to who's walked that same path. And it was that sense of community that gave us hope. It was the vulnerability that we all had to share, sort of our journey, if you like, and each of us that we sort of found difficult. And suppose for me it was just that vulnerability and honesty that we had as a community together to be able to share in a very safe space without any judgment. But it was just full of compassion for one another and to know that there was people who shared that journey with. And as a result of that, then the opportunities to create friendships and to have a network of people that get you, that get what you're going through, or if you're worried about something that you can lift the phone, have a chat with somebody, which I think is really powerful.

Regina Beach (14:29)

Do you want to live well with MS? Join the Overcoming Ms. Community in the LiveWell Hub. It's your place to get support, find connections and feel motivated to make positive lifestyle choices. Download the LiveWell Hub in your app store today or visit hub.overcomingms.org to join. We hope to see you there.

Jeff Alex (14:51)

So we mentioned about the adaptive hybrid athletic. So there's two things there. What does it mean to be a hybrid athlete? And what does it mean to be an adaptive hybrid athlete? So could you explain a bit about that?

Francis Loye (15:04)

Yeah. So basically, like, I suppose a hybrid athlete is somebody who. There's a mix of endurance and strength training. So traditionally, endurance might be seen as something that's either cycling or running, road racing. But that hybrid brings an element of strength into it, which is what we would call functional strength. So some form of functional movements. And so that's where what Tyrox traditionally would be seen as sort of like a hybrid mixture of both. And then recently, so CrossFit had various adaptive categories, and for people with neurological conditions, it's the Neuro. So CrossFit would have three sort of categories. We have neurominor, neuromoderate and neuromajor. So just depending on how much your condition impacted you, you could then choose one of those three categories and there's usually like a sort of an assessment panel that would sort of guide you on that. With Hyrox, this is their first year introducing the adaptive categories and they have two categories, which is neurological, minor and neurological. Major so I've competed in the minor side of things and basically it just allows. So it just depends on the race. It doesn't happen all the but. So for example, the majority of able body will run a 1km loop of a Hyrax race, whereas your neurominer will do 750. But again that'll depend. It's not sometimes possible. So for example I done Hyrox Berlin last year and because there's only one loop, you've no choice but to do the 1km. So it just depends on the race basically. And then some of the two other stations which slightly change is the sled pol and the sled push is slightly lighter weight than the rest. But the majority of it is pretty similar. Now there's more adaptations. If you do the neuro major the adaptations are greater in terms of the durations and the weights. So it just basically adapts on account of what the condition is. But there's others. And so there's other adaptive categories which might be seated with hip function or without hip function. There's other people who are impacted by their sight and there's other people then who may be in amputees, their limb, upper limb or lower limb. So there's about eight different categories that you can choose to compete in the adaptive. But I think that the power again of the adaptive community is meeting the amazing people that you get to meet. And that's been one of the major blessings of this journey for me. I have crossed paths with such incredible people through the overcoming Ms. Journey, but also at the adaptive competitions that I've competed in. And you're never short of being inspired by people's journeys of what they've been through. At the world championships it was three guys who were completing the visual impairment and the three guys were doing the hierarchs completely blind and they had their guide runners through it. Everybody comes with a story. That's. That's what's incredible. And again it goes back to the power of your mindset and that just reaffirms you on the journey you're on. You know that you bring in the power of the mind and that I suppose mindset and that just encourages you more and more on your journey. So I think it's, it's powerful.

Jeff Alex (18:00)

So as like as world champion, obviously that's going to be you. You, you must have a very intense training schedule. So what does your training schedule look like and how you approach?

Francis Loye (18:15)

Yeah, my, my training probably is. Yeah, it's endurance based for me. It's Harder to take a day off than it is to go to the gym. I probably would struggle more staying at home and not doing something than going to the gym. So before my diagnosis with multiple cirrhosis, I had an endurance background. I was never going to say that I was sporty at school. I was never going to be the one that was picked for the football teams, which is really, really ironic. So probably when I got into my 20s, I found endurance sports and I enjoyed then triathlons. And I'd done three Ironman before my diagnosis. So I had that endurance base, if you like. And that was one of my fears after getting diagnosed with multiple cirrhosis was that part of me which I really enjoyed, that I may be going to lose. I remember looking at my two bikes in the yard thinking, these are going to be for sale soon. You know that this is. This is changing for me. And that was really difficult. And again, we go back to the power of mindset and thought, where I had to work really hard and changing that process. Originally, I focused really much on the cycling because I didn't have the confidence to run. And my first target was what's called the Mallorca 312. So last year I completed a net, and basically it's one of the hardest endurance cyclist events in the world, where you cycle 312km around Mallorca in a day and you have about 12 to 13 hours to do that. But for me, that was my first goal, because that's where I got my first symptoms, was in the island of Mallorca. And for me, this was me going back to make peace with it. In a way, this was a bucket list event for me. So that was my first sort of challenge, was to try and achieve that. And I made that. And I'll not lie, I probably dropped the tear. Going over the finish line silently. Last year was really a motive for me, but it just enabled me to make peace, I suppose, because sometimes you fight with that diagnosis at the start. Then when the adaptive hyrox came out, I said, I'm going to give this a go. It's a new challenge. Speak about the power of exercise in terms of your brain and creating those neural pathways and the strength training. So for me then the focus was to start running again. And so at Christmas, I began running again and trying to build that up. And that's something I'm still working on and to try and build that endurance up. So I run three to four days a week, and then I'm in the gym most days. So I do some form of functional exercise most days. You know, we know strength is very protective from a longevity point of view, but also for people with Ms. In terms of balance. And I have to work very hard because I definitely left side weakness. So I'm trying to do a lot of that sort of left side work to try and build up because my right side overcompensates for everything about being aware of it, but looking it in the face and trying to do things that will correct that if you like. So I try to do a lot of gym work in terms of my strengths, two to three days a week and then sort of other functional, functional fitness and a bit of running. And then I focus a lot on my recovery. We know that sleep is one of the pillars, so I work really hard on my sleep, getting minimum of eight hours a night and that's really important for my recovery. And we do, we're very blessed. We don't live too far away from the sea here, but 30 minutes and once at least the weekend we do a sea and sauna dip. You do you mixture the mythology between the sea and the heat. We try and do that at least every weekend. Yeah, train hard and I'm blessed. And I understand that not everybody has the same journey with Ms. And I find myself incredibly lucky, but for me it's a part of who I am and I definitely think I always feel better after I train. So sometimes you wake up in the morning, you have a wee bit of cog fog or you feel as if I don't want to do it. By the time I go and do my session, I come back and I come out and I definitely feel more refreshed than I did before I went in.

Jeff Alex (21:45)

So. So Hydrox World Championship. So you recently won the Hydrox World Championships in Chicago. Firstly, congratulations. As an actual world champion, can you tell us a bit about the event?

Francis Loye (21:57)

Yeah. So it was an incredible experience. As I said, this was the first, first year that Hyrox run the adaptive division. So again, another big milestone in my journey. It was a really tough way to qualify because they were sort of still learning. What you had to be was in the top three of all athletes of all races. There was about 73 races in the 24, 25 season globally and you had to be in the top three to try and qualify for those. There was only three people just to get to the World Championship, just to get to the world. There was only three people in each category was getting in each of those divisions. So the challenge was that you really didn't get to know till really late in the season. So it was about three weeks out before the World Championships in Chicago. We got to realize if we were going or not. So you had a race wait for the season, you're waiting for every race to see where you stood and there was no leadership, there was no leaderboard, you didn't know where you sat until you got that email. So yeah, it was sort of, it was nail biting towards the end to see if you got there. But listen, they're evolving and they're trying their best. I guess year one was trying to find their feet in terms of the adaptive community and I guess it was will evolve. It was challenging for me because you're sort of the jet lag, you're sort of competing at a different time. So my race was at 5pm in the evening time. When you equated that back to home time, it was 11pm UK time and I always train in the morning time because that's when you have most energy. So yeah, listen, it was a challenge but you had us just say everybody is competing at this time. There's nothing you can do, you just do your best. But again, it was the power of the people you met, those adaptive athletes who was there, there's people from all over the world actually another UK guy, Mike, was in my field and then adaptive minor category, but a fantastic experience just to get to compete with the top athletes in the world to meet. There was 300 Irish there, there was a parade of nations where everybody got to go in with their different prospective nations into the opening ceremony was really, really a really fantastic experience. To get to have a platform, I guess for you to still compete as an athlete is really important for us. It gives us an opportunity to have aspirations, to have goals, but also to create networks with people around us that are of the same mindset, if you like and create them friendships or create the targets then for next year. So again, I've made many new friends over there as a result of competing at the Games and it was an opportunity, I suppose, to raise awareness for our community, the Ms. Community. One of the probably things that sport has enabled me to do is to communicate about my diagnosis. It was something that I got relatively hard at the very start. It probably took me two to three years before I started saying it to anybody. It was only my wife and a few of my close cycling buddies that knew. Nobody else knew because I was afraid people was going to treat me different. And then it was actually as a result of one of the adaptive competitions, the CrossFit competitions I was at and I met a guy called David Wetherell who recently completed the world record on crutches in London Marathon actually a couple of months ago. And he's an adaptive athlete and he reframed it for me. He says you have a duty to sort of communicate this and I don't know if it's spires a really strong word, but to give other people hope about what's possible on that journey. So it sort of changed my mindset that there's a power in what we do and how we can encourage other people. And I remember looking back at the very start when I was diagnosed and the word Ms. Was used and I was saying, just let me find two or three people that's living really well with this and if I know they can do this well, there's no reason why I can't. And I suppose I'd hope to be that someone for somebody else in a few years times. Sport has given me that medium, if you like, to sort of communicate what this journey has been like for me, which I would have found really difficult a few years ago. So that's been the power of that.

Jeff Alex (25:36)

Yeah. And so as a hybrid athlete, the diet pillar. So how do you approach the diet pillar and then still be at that level of.

Francis Loye (25:44)

Yeah, so that was, that was challenging. And I suppose I eat a lot of fish, you know, as, as a protein source and, and I eat the egg whites, egg white omelettes and I do take a plant based protein powder called form. I worked with the nutritionist, Josh, but he really helped me in terms of. Because not only for the protein but also the carbs. It was just a few that fuel the work and really importantly to fuel the recovery as well. Because again, it's, it's ensuring that you're giving you enough to feel the workouts but also to fuel the recoveries. But I suppose the beauty of the OMS approach is it's just unprocessed foods, you know, it's just making sure you're getting sufficient amounts of each of those, you know, sufficient amount of carbs, sufficient amount of protein. So if it meant that I had to supplement through the form protein powder, which is the cleanest one, that I had to do it, and the egg whites or eating more fish. But it was making sure that I worked with my nutritionist to sort of feed my workload if you like. So that was really, really important. But it's maintaining the pillars of the approach which was important.

Jeff Alex (26:44)

And yeah, I think I mean, you can get enough protein, can't you? It's not, I think it's a mix.

Francis Loye (26:48)

Well, we all know lentils and chickpeas and yeah, the amount of it. Yes, yeah, there's no, there's no issue getting the protein.

Jeff Alex (26:54)

So as a final question, do you have any tips for someone who's maybe recently diagnosed or who's new to the Overcoming Ms. Program?

Francis Loye (27:04)

Yeah, listen, I know it's an incredibly difficult time for somebody, but my first tip I think would be to make peace with it as soon as you can. And I fully understand that that can be really, really difficult at the start because it can feel all consuming. I reflected back on those feelings that I had at the very start. We spoke about the fear and uncertainty, but we also know through our work with Overcoming Ms. That stress is really toxic for the body and that's why it's really important that we have the right mindset. And I said earlier on that your mind is a muscle and we have to work it like any other just to train it. And I suppose I reframed things at the very start thinking that anything negative was fueling my Ms. And that was my way of stopping that sort of negative thought process that I had and I wasn't going to let that happen. And so, you know, one of my favorite quotes was it's not the cards you're dealt with, but it's how you play them that really counts. So we all have choices, you know, and for me, I was surrounded by my family, my wife and my children and they for me was my why. So it's how you sort of cope with that. People's watching, you know, your children are watching you, so you're trying to be a role model for them to understand that we are going to get setbacks in life, you know, this is it. But it's how you respond to those, you know. And now as a community, I think we've an important part of that. Even from an OMS perspective, people outside our community are watching how we are responding to the diet and what the sort of research is going to inform in 10 years time when we're, we're following the tracking for those people who've been on retreats, etc. So I think that's an intrinsic motivator if you like. So, yeah, those key thing for me is to make a bit of peace with it, you know, like, don't let it define who you are. I don't think that's important. You are more than two letters. It goes back to that sort of that original thought process and to find people to find your tribe. And that's one of the powerful things that Overcoming Ms. Does. It creates an opportunity to network with like minded people, to create those sort of friendship groups that you can chat to, people that you can share in a safe space without judgment, just with compassion. And the people who get you. Yeah, that's what I work on. That and that power of the mind and making peace with it I get because like I think it can become all consuming very early. But for me now as time goes on, you think less and less about it, you know, which is a good thing, I think.

Jeff Alex (29:20)

Yeah. Okay with that. Thank you very much for joining us and congratulations. Francis Louis.

Francis Loye (29:25)

Thank you, Josh, and thanks for the opportunity to tell my story. I appreciate it.

Regina Beach (29:30)

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living well with Ms. Please check out this episode's show notes@overcomingms.org podcast. You'll find useful links and bonus information there. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And please rate and review the show to help others find us. This show is made possible by the Overcoming Ms. Community. Our theme music is by Claire and Mav Dean. Our host is Jeff Alex. Our videos are edited by Lorna Greenwood and I'm the producer, Regina Beach. Have questions or ideas to share, email us at podcastvercomingms. We'd love to hear from you. The Living Room with Ms. Podcast is for private, noncommercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional.