Podcast Summary: Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis

Episode: Ask Jack: plant-based recipe substitutions | S7E23
Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Geoff Allix (C)
Guest: Jack McNulty (A) — Professional chef, recipe developer, and long-term Overcoming MS (OMS) follower

Overview

This episode explores practical, health-promoting plant-based substitutions for common animal-based ingredients—specifically for people living with MS and following the Overcoming MS program. Returning guest Jack McNulty, a professional chef and OMS contributor, provides deep insights into ingredient functions, substitution strategies, and offers actionable, real-world advice for transitioning to a whole-food, plant-based OMS-compliant diet. The conversation covers plant-based alternatives to dairy, eggs, and meat, addresses common community questions (with helpful recipes), and emphasizes the importance of becoming a knowledgeable, empowered food shopper.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Plant-Based Substitutions and Food Philosophy

[01:00–03:30]

• Jack’s Background: Jack highlights his experience as a professional chef and OMS advocate, working on the OMS Cookbook and Handbook.
• Diet Complexity: The OMS diet is a challenging but crucial pillar, influenced by social, financial, and cultural factors, plus aggressive marketing of processed foods.
• Approach Shift: It's not just about replacing an ingredient, but about understanding and replicating its function in a recipe.

  “We want to substitute the function of that ingredient...understand a little bit more about the ingredients and how they function within the food.” — Jack [03:51]

2. Dairy Alternatives: Breaking Down the Functions and Best Swaps

[03:30–13:00]

• Dairy’s Roles: Dairy isn't monolithic—milk, cream, butter, cheese, and fermented products each have distinct culinary jobs.
  • Milk: Adds flavor, protein, sugar for browning. Substitute: Unsweetened soy milk (closest in protein/fat/carb structure), oat milk sometimes.
  • Cream: Adds fat and allows whipping. Plant-based creams (soy, oat) work, but be wary of processed cream substitutes with coconut oils.
  • Butter: Mainly fat for flavor/mouthfeel, especially in baking. Substitute: Mix unprocessed rapeseed (canola) oil with nut butter (e.g., cashew).
  • Cheese: Adds concentrated protein, fat, and mouth-coating feel. Many substitutions focus on flavor and texture, often incorporating nuts and umami-rich components.
• Butter-on-Toast Example:
  • For simple butter replacement, consider: olive oil, mashed avocado, or other spreads (e.g., Vegemite), rather than processed vegan butters.

  “What are you trying to replace on that piece of toast? ...Often you can just put some oil on...or mash up an avocado.”—Jack [09:42]

• Vegan Butter Cautions: Most are highly processed, may impact glucose metabolism and cardiovascular health; generally not recommended for OMS.

  “Most vegan butters are made with soya, coconut, cashew flavoring, salt, and emulsifiers...I don’t use any sort of vegan butter in anything I make.”—Jack [11:55]

Notable Quote

"Read those ingredients...the creams that can be whipped are going to often have coconut fat or added ingredients...those are not going to be generally acceptable in what we're trying to accomplish with OMS." — Jack [05:36]

3. Plant-Based Egg Substitutes: Functions, Challenges, and Solutions

[13:58–21:21]

• Eggs' Complexity: Eggs serve multiple functions—binding, structure, richness, emulsification—no single substitute exists.
• OMS Guidance: Egg whites OK (mostly water and protein), yolks are not (contain saturated fat; best avoided).
• Egg White Swapping: Doubling whites for whole eggs works sometimes but can lead to dense results.
• Flax Eggs: Good binder but makes dense baked goods; better in non-baking applications.
• Flax Gel: For more advanced home cooks, boiling whole flax seeds yields a gel that better mimics eggs.

  “Around 3 tablespoons of flax gel will equal one egg...add a small amount of oil, perhaps soya milk—it functions quite well in terms of an overall egg substitute within baking.”—Jack [20:08]

• For Simple Coating (e.g., breading fish): Egg white alone is fine; it acts as a glue rather than for richness or structure.

Notable Quote

“Eggs is the most complicated ingredient because they're a multitasking powerhouse...there is no one substitution that you can make for an egg. It just doesn't exist.”—Jack [14:45]

4. Meat Substitutes: Texture, Flavor, and Umami

[23:00–32:12]

• Meat’s Role: Focus on what you’re trying to replace—texture, chew, UMAMI, and not just flavor per se ("Meat doesn't have a lot of flavor.").
• Whole-Food Substitutes:
  • Umami: Use mushrooms, yeast extract, miso, soy sauce.
  • Texture: Tofu, tempeh, seitan, legumes (lentils, beans).

  “When you just get it out of your head that I don’t need the meat because I’ve got everything else here, plus a whole bunch more fiber and all kinds of good stuff…What else do I really want?" — Jack [24:32]

• Air Frying Tofu: Air fryers yield crisp, satisfying tofu texture—Jack recommends pre-boiling and drying tofu for best results.
• Meat Substitutes in Stores: Most are ultra-processed and not health-promoting—often worse than real meat; avoid those with long ingredient lists. Neutral options: tofu-based or simple mushroom-based products (e.g., plain Quorn mince, king oyster or portobello mushrooms).

Notable Quote

“Most of those meat replacements are not health-promoting. They're just simply not...some of them are probably in fact less health-promoting than eating actual meat.”—Jack [28:20]

5. Community Q&A: Specific Substitution Scenarios

[32:52–41:32]

Coconut Milk Substitution

Q (Laura): How to replace coconut milk in Asian dishes?
A:

• Jack’s Recipe: 2 tbsp cashew butter + 2 tbsp chickpea flour + 500ml soya milk; blend and add at the end of cooking for creamy texture. For coconut flavor, try coconut water instead of soy milk or a little coconut essence.

  “If you really wanted the coconut element...replace part of that soy milk with coconut water.” — Jack [33:53]

Buttermilk Alternative

Q (Paula): Good alternative to buttermilk?
A:

• Use higher-fat plant milk (soy preferred). For 500ml, add 1 tsp vinegar (white wine or apple).

  “Higher the fat, the more it will resist curdling.” — Jack [35:11]

Avocado Oil

Q: Is avocado oil an OMS-friendly substitute, especially due to smoke point?
A:

• Extra virgin olive oil remains preferred; only use avocado oil if high quality and not blended with cheaper oils. Don’t heat any oil to smoking point—health risks rise then.

  “If you get any oil to the smoke point, you’ve already gone too far. It’s already broken down...” — Jack [36:39]

Cashew Cream & Cheese

Q (Paula): Concerns about fat content in cashew cream—okay or alternative?
A:

• Use in moderation; good for occasional richness, but high nut use can cause sluggishness. Make yourself for control, but avoid over-reliance.

  “You just feel it in your health, you become lethargic...not pleasant. Use it in moderation.”—Jack [39:23]

6. Building Cooking Confidence & Avoiding Food Waste

[42:36–45:43]

• Start Simple: Focus first on basic, frequent substitutions (milk, cream, yogurt).
• Learn Ingredient Functions: Don’t start with desserts—most complicated. Learn what ingredients do in a recipe.
• Don’t Fear Cooking: The more you cook, the easier and more enjoyable substitutions become.

  “Start very, very simple. Nothing has to be complicated.” — Jack [43:15]

• Community & Inspiration: Look for recipes and guidance from others with lived OMS experience—ignore fad influencers and laboratory-made, highly processed foods.
• Final Encouragement: Cooking is empowering, joyful (for yourself and others), and essential for long-term health management.

Notable Quote

“Becoming a smart shopper is really important. That means reading ingredients and understanding…what you’re putting into your body…It's your responsibility.” — Jack [41:32]

Memorable Quotes

• “Eggs is the most complicated ingredient because they're a multitasking powerhouse...there is no one substitution that you can make for an egg.” — Jack [14:45]
• “If you get any oil to the smoke point, you’ve already gone too far.” — Jack [36:39]
• “Most of those meat replacements are not health-promoting...some of them are probably in fact less health-promoting than eating actual meat.” — Jack [28:20]
• “I would encourage everybody to put a little bit more effort into it because it’s something we need to do constantly.” — Jack [42:01]

Key Takeaways

• Substitute function, not just ingredient.
• Avoid ultra-processed “vegan” products—simple, whole-food solutions (soy, oat, nuts, seeds, mushrooms) are optimal.
• Read labels, stay informed—marketing is often misleading.
• Technique matters: Air fry tofu, experiment with mushrooms, try homemade nut creams in moderation.
• Start simply; build confidence: Don’t fear mistakes in the kitchen.

Timestamps for Reference

• [01:00] Introduction to Jack, his background, and OMS diet
• [03:30] Dairy functions and plant-based substitutions
• [13:58] The complexity of egg substitution
• [23:00] Meat: flavor vs. function and plant-based replacements
• [32:52] Community Q&A: coconut milk, buttermilk, avocado oil, cashew cream
• [42:36] How to build confidence and skill in the kitchen

Tone & Style

Conversational, practical, and encouraging—Jack blends technical knowledge with accessible, down-to-earth advice, empowering listeners to take control of their own food choices.

For more resources, recipes, and community support, visit Overcoming MS.