Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis: In Conversation with Caroline Clarke

Podcast: Living Well with MS
Host: Geoff Allix (Overcoming MS)
Guest: Caroline Clarke (Chief Executive, Royal Free London NHS Foundation Trust & OMS trustee)
Episode: S2E11 Bonus (Bonus from the Archives)
Date: January 21, 2026

Episode Overview

In this insightful bonus episode, host Geoff Allix sits down with Caroline Clarke, Chief Executive of the Royal Free London NHS Foundation Trust and a trustee of Overcoming MS (OMS). Caroline shares her personal journey with MS, discusses her decision to follow the OMS program, and offers a unique perspective shaped by both her leadership in a major NHS trust and her lived experience as a person with MS. The discussion explores lifestyle management, the importance of mindfulness, maintaining wellbeing in high-pressure roles, and how people with MS can navigate the added challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Caroline’s MS Story and Diagnosis

[01:33 – 06:36]

• Caroline was diagnosed with transverse myelitis in 1997, initially after a motorbike accident led doctors to discover a spinal lesion.
• She experienced a prolonged recovery, with several years of good health following.
• In 2015, she experienced symptoms known as the "MS hug," leading to a diagnosis of MS after rapid medical follow-up.
• Caroline chose to be open about her MS diagnosis at work, comparing the process to coming out as gay:

  "I felt it was a bit like coming out... So I kind of just—I'm going to come out to everybody." (Caroline, 03:57)

• After being introduced to the OMS program through a colleague and reading George Jelinek’s book, she decided it made “perfect sense,” both scientifically and holistically.

Perceptions of OMS Within the NHS

[06:36 – 08:55]

• Caroline notes that while aspects of the OMS program, like healthy living and exercise, are widely accepted in the NHS, some skepticism remains due to calls for more scientific research on specific elements like diet.
• She emphasizes the importance of further research and believes being open about her lifestyle management has allowed her to support staff wellbeing, especially during COVID-19.

Managing Stress, High-Pressure Work, and MS

[08:55 – 14:38]

• Stress exacerbates her symptoms, particularly hand and arm issues.

  "My symptoms get worse with stress for sure and my team all notice." (Caroline, 09:46)

• She manages stress through discipline, taking regular breaks, practicing mindfulness, and maintaining support systems with family and friends.

• Mindfulness has been crucial—she recommends integrating short, frequent mindful “micro-sessions”:

  "The way I got into mindfulness was really helpful... I did an eight week course and it was... probably the single biggest intervention I've made over the last ten years." (Caroline, 10:49)

  "I probably have 10 at least such mindful incidents in a day, but it just is how I am now." (Caroline, 14:38)

• Quality sleep and good routines also play vital roles in her overall MS management.

Adapting Lifestyle During the COVID-19 Pandemic

[15:35 – 26:24]

• Vitamin D supplementation and exercise become even more important during lockdowns.
• Caroline urges those with MS to stay up-to-date with OMS principles, adapt exercise routines as necessary, and take extra care if immunosuppressed.
• She shares her own experience with COVID-19, noting a temporary worsening of her neurological symptoms but a relatively mild overall illness.
• Emphasizes the importance of following current medical advice and government guidelines for shielding, while acknowledging inconsistencies in how these are communicated.

Advice for People with MS

[16:51 – 21:17]

• Caroline reiterates the benefits of repeatedly reading George Jelinek’s OMS book and seeking ongoing inspiration, especially for dietary choices and exercise.
• Recommends listening to one’s body and adapting practices to personal limitations and lifestyle.
• Emphasizes the importance of perseverance—exercise, vitamin D, and staying connected with the MS and OMS communities.

MS, Exercise & Resilience

[19:15 – 21:20]

• Both Geoff and Caroline note that loss in muscle mass occurs rapidly during inactivity, not just in MS but for everyone, highlighting the importance of movement.
• OMS recommendations—healthy eating, vitamin D supplementation, and regular exercise—are being recognized as beneficial for the wider public, not only for people with MS.

Research and Mainstream Adoption

[21:20 – 21:40]

• There’s hope that more elements of the OMS program, especially the low-fat diet, will be subjected to rigorous scientific scrutiny, which could help mainstream acceptance.

MS, COVID-19, and Shielding Advice

[21:40 – 33:07]

• Individuals on immunosuppressive drugs should take extra precautions, as they are at higher risk from COVID-19. Caroline shares her own cautious approach and ongoing hospital responsibilities.
• She acknowledges the challenges and emotional impact of shielding and the need for tailored medical advice for each person.
• Guidance on treatment delays (such as with Lemtrada or Ocrelizumab) should come from neurologists, but generally, minor delays in scheduled treatments are not critical.
• The pandemic is prompting new protocols for restarting non-COVID hospital services.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On coming out about MS at work:

  "I kind of just—I'm going to come out to everybody... It was a bit like coming out [as gay]." (Caroline, 03:57)

• On OMS making sense:

  "I read George’s stuff and it blew me away. And I was like, well, this just makes perfect sense." (Caroline, 05:09)

• On mindfulness:

  "That was probably the single biggest intervention I've made over the last ten years." (Caroline, 10:56)

• On adapting lifestyle during COVID-19:

  "Stick to the program. If your immune system is compromised, just take extra care." (Caroline, 25:09)

• On needing more research:

  "I really hope the research MS community does more into particularly aspects of our program that haven’t been so researched." (Caroline, 21:21)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:33–06:36: Caroline’s diagnosis and personal journey with MS
• 06:36–08:55: OMS in the NHS—perceptions and impact on Caroline’s role
• 08:55–14:38: Managing stress, mindfulness, and work life balance
• 15:35–21:17: Practical lifestyle adaptations during COVID-19; exercise and vitamin D
• 21:40–26:24: COVID-19 specific advice for people with MS
• 27:49–33:07: Navigating shielding, treatment delays, and managing uncertainty

Practical Tips & Takeaways

• Stay Informed & Inspired: Revisit OMS resources, continue learning, and look for new recipes and exercise routines.
• Prioritize Mindfulness: Integrate mini practices throughout the day, not just in formal sessions.
• Communicate and Be Open: Openness about MS can foster understanding and support in the workplace.
• Exercise Regularly (within ability): Avoid extended inactivity to prevent loss of muscle mass.
• Adjust Vitamin D and Dietary Habits: Particularly during lockdown or when spending less time outdoors.
• Seek Medical Guidance: Especially regarding shielding and treatment, as recommendations may change rapidly.
• Recognize the Mainstream Shift: OMS principles—healthy diet, exercise, vitamin D—are increasingly recognized for broad health resilience.

This episode is both an inspiration for people living with MS and a practical guide to thriving—especially in challenging times. Caroline Clarke’s candid insights, resilience, and practical wisdom shine through, offering hope and actionable ideas for the global OMS and MS community.