Podcast Summary

Podcast: Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis
Host: Overcoming MS
Episode: Bonus from the archives: The Overcoming MS diet in a nutshell with Sam Josephs (part 2) | S7 bonus
Date: November 12, 2025
Guest: Sam Josephs, Overcoming MS Facilitator & Nutritional Therapist

Episode Overview

This special bonus episode revisits key advice on the dietary pillar of the Overcoming MS (OMS) Program. Host Geoff Allix interviews nutritional therapist Sam Josephs, focusing on practical approaches to starting the OMS diet, how to manage transitions, the evidence behind fasting and gluten elimination, and essential tips for maintaining variety and ease in plant-based, wholefood cooking. The episode is an accessible resource for those newly diagnosed or looking for further guidance on using nutrition and lifestyle to manage MS symptoms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Getting Started with the OMS Diet

[01:25–04:39]

• Transition Approaches:

  • People start the OMS diet in various ways: some go "all in" immediately, while others prefer gradual changes.
  • A crucial factor is informing family and friends to gain support, so "the last thing you want is your friends or family around you going, ‘oh, go on, just have a cheese cracker. It’s not that bad.’" (Sam Josephs, 01:52)
  • The OMS diet is not for weight loss but aimed at reducing relapses and managing MS progression.

• Initial Steps:

  • First, remove processed foods and ‘rubbish’ from your diet.
  • Quickly eliminate dairy due to its strong link to inflammation and MS progression.

    "The connections between dairy intake and MS progression is indisputable."
    — Sam Josephs, [03:34]

  • Next, eliminate red meat (for cardiovascular and health reasons).
  • After that, cut out chicken and egg yolks, as appropriate.
  • Some may benefit from tackling all changes immediately for faster results.

2. The Role and Versatility of Fish, and Plant-Based Variety

[04:50–05:25]

• Fish and seafood offer a “drastically different” range of tastes and textures, helping keep meals interesting and satisfying.
• Removing processed foods is seen as the most impactful starting change.
• Sam and Geoff agree: "Cleanup generally is a good way to start to feel better about yourself." (Sam, [05:25])

3. Fasting and MS: What Does the Science Say?

[06:03–09:46]

• Popularity & Evidence:

  • Fasting and "fast mimicking diets" are gaining attention for anti-inflammatory effects.
  • Scientific evidence points to fasting as potentially reducing inflammation and suppressing autoimmunity, which are key issues in MS.

    "Evidence is building that it can dramatically reduce inflammation in the body, which is a key feature of relapsing-remitting MS."
    — Sam Josephs, [06:36]

  • Animal research hints at potential remyelination effects (repairing nerve insulation).

• Types of Fasting Discussed:

  • 5:2 Diet: Eat normally 5 days, restrict calories (500/600 kcal) for 2 days.
  • 16:8 Method: Fast 16 hours, eat within an 8-hour window.
  • Prolon Diet: Commercial, pre-packaged fasting mimicking plan devised by Valter Longo.
  • Flexibility according to personal preference and lifestyle is key.

• Practical Advice:

  • Fasting is "something you can give a try and after a couple of months see how you feel." (Sam, [09:46])
  • Especially recommended for those with additional health concerns (e.g., weight, diabetes risk).

4. Gluten: To Avoid or Not?

[10:21–15:21]

• Gluten & MS:

  • The gluten-MS connection is less clear in medical literature compared to dairy, but removing gluten may reduce symptoms such as brain fog and balance difficulties for some.
  • "Gluten has an ability to open up spaces between the cells in the gut, which means it can travel into the bloodstream and fire up the immune system." (Sam, [11:15])

• Mechanisms and Cautions:

  • Gluten’s action on the gut may also affect the blood-brain barrier, possibly worsening MS.
  • A relationship exists between MS and an increased risk of celiac disease or gluten sensitivity.
  • If trying gluten-free, replace gluten-containing carbs with alternatives (corn, rice, amaranth, quinoa) to maintain gut health.
  • Trial period for gluten elimination should last at least a couple of months.

5. Staged Experimentation After Diet Foundations

[15:21–16:19]

• Once compliant with OMS diet core principles, experimenting with fasting or gluten removal is reasonable for those seeking further improvement.
• Ensuring variety and not just eliminating foods is important.

6. Cooking, Shopping, and Maintaining Diet Practicalities

[17:09–19:05]

• Shopping:

  • Effective shopping—stocking up on ‘the right’ foods and removing temptations—is crucial.
  • “Avoid buying rubbish in the first place. And processed foods to stock in the cupboards is a good start.” (Sam, [17:18])

• Cooking Tips:

  • Bulk cook and freeze meal portions to save time and effort, especially for those dealing with fatigue or symptoms.
  • Make versatile base ingredients (e.g., tomato sauce) for multiple uses.
  • Use resources such as the OMS Cookbook and online communities for inspiration, avoiding boredom and routine in meals.
  • "Variety is the spice of life. And also with plant-based foods, the variety is enormous." (Sam, [18:39])
  • Try different grains and flours to avoid becoming wheat-dependent.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Support:

  "The most important thing...is to make sure that everybody around you knows what you're doing and why you're doing it, that it's to reduce relapses and keep disability at bay. It's not a diet for weight loss or anything like that. It's far more life changing."
  — Sam Josephs [01:52]

• On Dairy:

  "Go cold turkey on all dairy as quickly as you can because that is a very inflammatory food."
  — Sam Josephs [03:17]

• On Fasting Benefits:

  "It can suppress autoimmunity...they demonstrated in a study on mice that when they put them on a severely calorie restricted intermittent diet, the cells that make myelin seem to multiply, so it could potentially remyelinate."
  — Sam Josephs [08:15]

• On Gluten & Leaky Gut:

  "Gluten...has an ability to open up spaces between the cells in the gut, which means that it can then travel into the bloodstream and fire up the immune system."
  — Sam Josephs [11:15]

• On Cooking Solutions:

  "Bulk cooking—when you make a meal, try and make double quantities and freeze half for the following week."
  — Sam Josephs [17:31]

• On Variety:

  "Variety is the spice of life. And also with plant-based foods, the variety is enormous."
  — Sam Josephs [18:39]

Important Timestamps

• 01:25 – How to start with the OMS diet: all-in or step-by-step?
• 02:37 – The importance of family and social support.
• 03:17 – Remove dairy and evidence for MS.
• 06:03 – Fasting and fast-mimicking diets.
• 08:15 – Fasting, autoimmunity, and possible remyelination.
• 10:21 – The case for (and against) gluten removal.
• 12:08 – Mechanisms: gluten, leaky gut, blood-brain barrier.
• 15:21 – How to experiment with further diet tweaks.
• 17:18 – Practical tips: shopping, cooking, bulk meal prep.
• 18:39 – Emphasizing variety in plant-based foods.

Final Takeaways

• The OMS diet prioritizes eliminating inflammatory foods (dairy, processed foods, red meat) and maximizing plant-based variety and fish.
• Fasting and gluten avoidance are promising areas of research and personal experimentation but are not currently official OMS core recommendations.
• Success with the OMS diet is easier with strong social support, practical strategies for prep and cooking, and a focus on variety, not restriction.
• Listeners are encouraged to start where they feel comfortable, use resources for recipe inspiration, and continually adapt the diet to their personal needs and improvements.

This engaging episode is a must-listen for anyone newly diagnosed or seeking deeper practical tips for thriving with MS through strategic, flexible, wholefood nutrition.