C (3:32)

as an aside, because I'm from the uk. So you have quite. We have quite different healthcare systems.

A (3:37)

Right.

C (3:38)

Is, is it. Is all the treatment typically covered in normal health insurance?

A (3:44)

It depends. It depends a lot. It depends on the health care coverage that we have. So I have excellent healthcare through my employer, but my previous employer, I did not have great health insurance. And I truly believe that because my health insurance wasn't great, I wasn't diagnosed a lot sooner, even as soon as 20.

C (4:11)

Right. And so. So did you have challenges with being diagnosed when in your situation in 2023?

A (4:21)

No, I didn't. I think I had. I went to a great hospital, everything was aligned for to get diagnosed. But in 2021 I didn't. I kept going back to the doctors and telling them something was wrong and they just kept giving me eye drops and I would tell them I'm seeing floaters, I see these squiggly lines, I just don't feel the same. And they kept saying there's nothing we can do. But I went and paid privately and did see an ophthalmologist and they had did some tests and said, okay, we think that it could be multiple sclerosis, we want you to come back. But at that time I just graduated college, I didn't have great health insurance already. I would have had to pay for it privately to even do an mri. So I just felt like it was very expensive and the symptoms did subside. But I think that that's when I was starting to have a lesion at that time and I didn't. My original healthcare that I was assigned to did not diagnose me.

C (5:29)

Then would you have had a scenario where if you'd been diagnosed, if you paid for a private diagnosis, that then when you got healthcare which was much better healthcare, it would be a pre existing condition and then might have even

A (5:44)

affect that it could have been. I do believe that that would have impacted it. I am curious to see because we did change the Law. And I don't know if it's just in California, but where we don't have pre existing health conditions anymore. But that could have impacted my diagnosis as well or affected treatment options if I was diagnosed a lot earlier.

C (6:09)

And how do you, how do you tell other people? How do you explain your diagnosis to others and decide who you want to tell and how you tell them?

A (6:18)

So for outside of work, I'm very an open book and I am honest about it. And I realized that I have to simplify terms and really break down. What does multiple sclerosis mean? Because for me, I've been immersed in this arena for a couple years now from. So for me I can just say, oh, well, it's multiple sclerosis. But when I meet people who are unfamiliar with it, then I really have to be able to lay it out, like, what do the symptoms look like and how it does show up different for a lot of people and why it does show up differently. And I do often hear from people that they know somebody and the first thing that I usually tell, they tell me is, oh, I know somebody, but they look like they're fine. So I'll have to go back and tell them, well, it's an invisible disease. So they may look like they're fine and they're masking it and you may not realize what they're really struggling with. And then another thing that I have to explain too, or I've been trying really hard to explain, is what does fatigue look like? Because people will often say, oh, well, I'm tired too. And then I have to tell them, no, what does that mean? So I heard this one doctor say to describe fatigue is fatigue for Ms. Looks like if you're swimming with a fur coat on. And I thought that is the perfect way to describe it. Or you feel like you have a lead blanket on you. And that is what fatigue looks like for me. And it's not that I was up late at night or didn't get a lot of sleep the night before.

C (8:00)

Yeah, no, I've not found any perfect way of describing fatigue, even to my wife or even on my doctor or anyone.

A (8:08)

If.

C (8:08)

But if someone's who's got ms, then they know straight away if they all got fatigue, they don't yet. So there's like all sorts of different things and causes. It could be the heat.

A (8:18)

Right.

C (8:19)

It could be anything. It could be so many factors that could have caused it. So you came across overcoming Ms. So how did you discover overcoming ms?

A (8:28)

Well, it's a very interesting Story Last year I had this epiphany of I want to do things that I've always wanted to do. And I kind of experience that every five years where it's what can I do differently now that I've always wanted to do? And I was looking into getting my pilot's license and when I was going through that process, I realized that I may encounter certain barriers because of my medical condition. And when I was researching online, how do I mitigate that? I came across a YouTube video of a woman describing the Overcoming Ms. Handbook and how it helped manage her symptoms and that she didn't take any treatment in terms of infusions or shots. It was just following the Overcoming Ms. Guidelines. And that opened the door for me to realize, oh, what's this program? And I started following it and then I heard about the retreat and I thought, I got it, I can't wait to do and sign up for this Ms. Retreat. But that's how I got introduced to it.

C (9:37)

So, so you came all the way over to the uk, didn't you, for the, for a retreat. So could you share your experience of attending an Ms. Retreat and what, and what you found most helpful about attending a retreat?

A (9:51)

I will have to describe to you the moment that I saw that there is the Ms. Retreat and the uk and I said, I, I can't wait to do this. This is exactly what I've been looking for. Because at that point when I got released that it's coming out, it's a point in my life where I was past the denial point. I realized I needed a community and I've always wanted to travel to Europe. So all these check boxes were marked and ready to go and I, I went and I brought my mother in law with me because she's been mostly a primary caregiver for me. She's, she comes to a lot of my appointments when I was hospitalized, being first diagnosed, she was there every day with me. So I brought her with me and, and the retreat itself was an immersive experience and I got that community that I was looking for. I met people there that I feel like are going to be my friends for the rest of my life. I got to learn how to make sustainable changes for my future health. And then the food, I, everyone always talks about how great the food is and that is absolutely correct because I did get the cookbook, the Overcoming Ms. Cook and I thought, I don't know if I could make these recipes. But then when I actually went to the retreat and realized, oh, it is very simple to make these recipes and it's very delicious and so that was inspiring as well.

B (11:25)

Do you want to live well with MS? Join the Overcoming Ms. Community in the LiveWell Hub. It's your place to get support, find connections and feel motivated to make positive lifestyle choices. Download the LiveWell Hub in your app store today or visit hub.overcomingms.org to join. We hope to see you there.

C (11:49)

And so how has Ms. Changed your day to day life, your routines? Because obviously you've changed your diet, but you know, how, how has it changed your day to day routine, having ms?

A (12:02)

So before being diagnosed I would say that I was a workaholic and that I took pride in working a lot of hours. And then after being diagnosed I realized I can throttle back and maybe be more effective and efficient rather than having to work so many hours. So that was one thing I throttled back in a lot of ways. So work would be one aspect of it. And how I show up socially, maybe before I was more of a people pleaser and so always trying to just show up for others and not show up for myself. So for me it's been an opportunity to put myself in the front seat more than I used to in the past. And then I take, I rest a lot more. I would say I napped a lot before too, but then I just really listen to myself more than I had in the past and listen to my body where I can feel a flare up or I feel that I'm more tired than before. I think I would just probably be ready to collapse in terms of being tired. And now I'm listening a little bit more so I can see ahead. I feel like I'm being more thoughtful and intentional in that way.

C (13:24)

And if you do get tougher times or you do have flare ups, how do you sort of stay motivated and continue through those?

A (13:32)

For me, when I have flare ups, I'll feel, I feel comfortable if I'm at work to just call off work. My work is very understanding and they know what's going on and very mindful of that. So I'll just, I just rest. I think that's one big thing too. But from the emotional aspect, I just remind myself that this is just a small time where I'm feeling this way and it won't be forever. And I remember when I was first diagnosed, when I was in the er, they actually thought I had a mini stroke and they were gonna test to see what long term damage my memory experienced. And I remember for two and a half hours thinking that I Hadn't that had a mini stroke and thinking about the impact my brain was going to experience from this. So while it's never good to always play scenario in your mind of it could be worse, but, and for a brief moment, I really did think it was going to be worse. And not to say, you know, they're, they're two different diagnoses or two different ways to look at it, but I just taught myself like, okay, could have been worse, but you're here now and you just have to get through this moment of time.

C (14:56)

And sort of talking specifically about lifestyle, Ms. Includes drug therapy as well, is, is accepted part of that, but, but in terms of the lifestyle. So you've mentioned diet. What, what are the lifestyle changes that you think made the biggest impact on your health?

A (15:13)

I would definitely say, number one thing is diet. I got to meet with Sam Josephs and we did a session together for nutrition. So it was great because she was able to show me what changing the diet looks like and why it's important and how I can make sustainable changes. And I do feel a difference. When I eat something that maybe isn't great on my body, it shows up in a different way. For example, I gave up dairy. That was one of the first things that I gave up. And before that I was getting cystic acne. And anytime I do have dairy, I have these flare ups. And it's almost as if my body's trying to tell me, hey, Heather, you need to make a modification in your diet because it's just not working for you. And one thing, I remember reading an article in terms of diet, it said, rather than saying I can't have diet, it's, I choose not to have this in my diet. And it, it's really important because language is important to how we view what we're doing. And so I do try to say I choose not to have dairy.

C (16:28)

And the, the emotional side of it, the mental health aspects of it, how do you manage that? I think that's one of the ones that people, a lot of people have trouble with.

A (16:38)

Yeah, that, that one, that one is challenging. I think what helped is a few different things. When I feel a certain way is leaning on therapy. That was wonderful. I did have an Ms. Mentor through another association, connecting with her and having her ground me in certain ways that I was feeling and having a thought partner and thinking about Ms. Help, leaning on my friends and family for support. I think I've been really lucky to have great family and great friends. And I would say those are the things that have helped me emotionally.

C (17:20)

And are you fine with mindfulness? Does that form part of your routine every morning?

A (17:26)

I definitely engage in mindfulness and I can tell how I manage my stress. It varies if I did or did not engage in mindfulness in the morning, but I do try to ground myself when I can. But I try to do in the morning, 10, 20 minutes of a mindfulness session.

C (17:45)

And you've mentioned your family already. So what kind of support system have you built and how has that helped you and were your existing relationships impacted from having an Ms. Diagnosis?

A (17:57)

I would say it impacted it in a positive way where, as I mentioned earlier, having people show up for me that. Where I didn't need to ask for help. They were. They're there for me. I have people who check in on me and they're understanding. I'll give you a story. So I went and traveled with my cousin and I started to feel a lot of tingliness in my legs. I could feel it just travel up my whole body. And normally I just go along with it. And I was telling my cousin, I'm not feeling well and how I'm feeling, and she just immediately stopped and was like, okay, so what, so what can we, what can I do? How can I help you? What do we need to do to make you feel comfortable? And she just checked on me a lot. And it made me feel such gratitude that I had that support there.

C (18:59)

Have you had any surprising positives or silver linings that have come from living with ms?

A (19:06)

I would say I'm getting better about advocating for myself and putting myself first, really thinking about, like, what are my needs? I would like to joke and say that I'm a recovering people pleaser, but it takes practice, though. It takes a lot of practice. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's curing or mitigating these thoughts that I've had for a long time. But I also feel physically and mentally better than I did 20, 30 years ago, like, just my whole life. I just feel I'm in a better place now. And so while being diagnosed with Ms. Is challenging, I do feel there are those silver linings. And then also finding I've met wonderful people through this process and especially those that I've met at the retreat.

C (19:57)

Yeah, I think, I think overcoming Ms. Is. Is just healthy, isn't it, for everyone? I think I'd certainly feel just healthier generally. You know, your blood pressure, your heart rate, all like, everything brilliant. And I go, they go, you're in excellent health. I go by, I am in here because I've got Ms. They went, oh, yeah, well, apart from the Ms. Discounting that, then you're in excellent health.

A (20:20)

Interesting. You had mentioned that. I was talking to somebody at work who I disclosed for the first time about my diagnosis and I was telling them the pillars of the oms and they said, well, those are things that we should genuinely incorporate into our life if you don't have ms, or the diet, family support, all those things. And I thought, yeah, that's a great way of looking at it. And I did also want to mention too, because something that comes up a lot is about disclosing at work. And I do mentor some people who have Ms. Or it comes up in general. And I usually tell people that it's an individual choice. Once you tell folks that you have ms, you might want to think about because you can't untell them anymore. So that's something to think about. And then do you. Are you in a supportive network too? So for me at my work, I have a great boss, great coworkers, I'm in a great department. In fact, when I first got diagnosed and came back to work, I actually gave a presentation to people about what is Ms. But I feel psychologically safe there. I feel I can trust my folks that I work with, but if I was in a different environment, I may choose not to disclose.

C (21:46)

And so as a final question and one that we often ask, what advice would you have for someone who is newly diagnosed? They might be new to the program or they might be entirely new. They just been diagnosed with ms, what advice would you give them?

A (21:59)

So as I mentioned with the disclosure, just thinking about that, thinking it through and being mindful of what implications of that means find an Ms. Community, whether it's overcoming Ms. Or there's other associations and foundations to be a part of, but finding a community, because no one knows what it's like unless they have experienced it themselves. So that would be something I would recommend. Learn about ms, learn a lot and as much as you can, because I feel like it does give you a sense of agency. When you know more about ms, you've taken the time to learn about it and what different treatment options are available. Because a doctor may recommend one treatment option, but really thinking about does that work best for you? I'd say that's something I would recommend. Make sustainable changes, but also do what works for you. For some people, quitting dairy cold turkey the next day, that might work for you, but if you. That doesn't work for you as a person. Then you might want to think about how can you start to remove certain things from your diet over time. Because ultimately in the end, you're making a change for your own health and you don't want to revert back to where you were before if you actually want to make a change. And then the last thing I would say is giving back to the community. There's a lot of positive research about how giving back can make you as a person more grounded, more emotionally, physically, well rounded, those connection pieces. So I would. That's another recommendation I would have.

C (23:38)

Okay. I think it's some excellent advice. So with that, thank you very much for joining us.

A (23:42)

Heather Carrasco thanks for the opportunity.

B (23:48)

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living well with Ms. Please check out this episode's show notes@overcomingms.org podcast. You'll find useful links and bonus information there. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And please rate and review the show to help others find us. This show is made possible by the Overcoming Ms. Community. Our theme music is by Claire and Mav Dean. Our host is Jeff Alex. Our videos are edited by Lorna Greenwood and I'm the producer, Regina Beach. Have questions or ideas to share? Email us@podcastvercomingms.org we'd love to hear from you. The Living Room with Ms. Podcast is for private, non commercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional.