Living Well with MS – S6E20: Meditation with Overcoming MS Facilitator Yvette Sargood

Date: October 2, 2024
Host: Geoff Allix
Guest: Yvette Sargood (Leadership Coach, Overcoming MS Facilitator)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the role of mindfulness and meditation in the Overcoming MS (OMS) program, as told through the lived experience of Yvette Sargood. Yvette, a leadership coach, mother, and longtime person with MS, shares her personal MS journey, insights into stress management, and the transformative impact of adopting OMS principles—especially mindfulness. The discussion also covers practical challenges with lifestyle changes, navigating work disclosure, and advice for newcomers to the OMS approach.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Yvette’s MS and OMS Journey

• Background: Yvette introduces herself as a mother of three, partner, avid learner, leadership coach, and adaptive rower.
  "I had my first symptoms when I was 23... over 35 years ago." (01:19)
• Diagnosis: Early symptoms included optic neuritis. She deliberately avoided formal diagnosis for decades, both driven by denial and fear of workplace discrimination (03:00–07:05).
• OMS Discovery: Upon noticing progression (e.g., weakness, right-side issues), she sought to regain control, found George Jelinek's book, and rapidly embraced the OMS program in 2013-14.
  • "Did a bit of googling, found George Jelinek's book, consumed it within a day, cleared out my cupboards within 48 hours and really embraced the program. I'm an all or nothing person..." (04:50)
• Disclosure and Discrimination: Saw workplace bias against a colleague with MS early in her career, which led her to conceal her own condition.
  "It became... this is something I need to hold close because I didn't want to experience any bias..." (06:11)
• Evolution of Understanding: Both host and guest reflect on improvements in legal protection, public attitude, and medical understanding in recent years, but Yvette notes ongoing challenges:
  "I still hear of people experiencing discrimination in organizations, even though that should not be happening." (07:52)

Starting OMS—Is It Ever Too Late?

• Benefits for “Late Starters”: Yvette stresses it's never too late to benefit from OMS, regardless of how long one has had MS:
  "I noticed that I was less fatigued, I've got more energy, I could really do more in life." (09:30)
• Mindfulness as Acceptance: Mindfulness helped Yvette move from denial to acceptance, reducing self-criticism and increasing self-kindness:
  "It was such a fundamental shift... starting to give myself a break, starting to be a little kinder to myself because I was very critical and harsh..." (10:57)

Medication and Overcoming MS

• Disease Modifying Therapy (DMT): Emphasizes that OMS endorses using the “best advice you can”—including medication, not just lifestyle changes.
  • Yvette began Tecfidera in 2016 after receiving a formal diagnosis, reflecting on the emotional process and decision points as progression continued.
    "It took me six months to actually start the drug, you know, because it's really scary. I'd been drug free up until that point... so it felt like a real big step..." (12:23)
• Coping with Uncertainty: More resilient and accepting now when facing new MS lesions, noting personal growth through the process (14:11).

Adopting the OMS Program: Challenges and Tips

• Hardest Changes: For Yvette, the toughest pillar was giving up chocolate:
  "Chocolate. Chocolate was the hardest thing for me." (15:19)
  • She explains why even high-cacao chocolate isn’t OMS-friendly, but shares homemade alternatives and tips for eating out.
• OMS Chef’s Card: Useful tool for restaurant dining, helping to communicate dietary needs (16:41–17:48).
• Weight Changes: Both Yvette and her partner lost significant weight initially on a whole-food, plant-based diet. They resolved this by increasing portions and exploring new recipes, highlighting cookbook recommendations (18:51–21:10).
• Overall Benefits:
  • Increased activity and exercise, more self-kindness, greater life fulfillment, expanded social and professional circles.
  • "I am probably more active now than I have been in decades... I'm stronger, I'm a lot kinder to myself..." (21:10)
  • The OMS community and continuous learning (e.g., a master's in mindfulness) brought enriching experiences.

Workplace Disclosure and Leadership

• Disclosing MS at Work: No legal obligation to disclose in the UK, but workplace adjustments may require disclosure. Yvette now advocates for more role models with disabilities at senior leadership levels. "I'm very conscious that there is a really stark under representations of leaders at the top... having a disability, something like MS, is not going to get in the way of me progressing..." (23:41)

Facilitating OMS and the Mindfulness Pillar

• Facilitation Focus: Yvette leads OMS sessions in stress management and mindfulness, contributing to global online retreats for greater accessibility (26:31–28:37).
• Virtual Retreats: New OMS global online retreats enhance reach and affordability compared to traditional face-to-face events.

The Importance of Mindfulness for People with MS

• Defining Mindfulness:
  "It's about really being kind of present in the moment to what's actually happening right now... tuning into our thoughts, feelings, body sensations, but bringing a real sort of kind, curious, light touch attitude..." (28:37)
• Why It Matters: Mindfulness buffers stress, and studies indicate it can reduce fatigue, depression, anxiety, and even relapses or MRI lesions in people with MS.
  • "Loads of compelling evidence to say, why wouldn't you give this a go?" (31:52)
  • Host: "Might just make you happier." Yvette: "It might just make you happier. Absolutely." (32:24-32:27)

Common Misconceptions About Mindfulness and Meditation

• Not Just “Clearing Your Mind”:
  "We're never going to stop it [the mind wandering]... just noticing when the mind has wandered... that's where the rewiring of the brain kind of happens." (34:31)
• Not Selfish:
  • Mindfulness fosters connectedness with others.
  • "That connectedness is... not just about me, it's actually about we... can really have an impact on our relationships with others and with the broader kind of world at large." (33:19)
• Not Only About Relaxation: Relaxation can happen, but it's not the main goal.

Yvette’s Tips for Newcomers to MS and OMS

• Jump In, But With Compassion:
  "Hold it with a light touch... get curious... bring a beginner's mind... if you mess up one day, that’s okay. There’s always a next day. So just kind of learn and just, again, don't be critical with yourself. This is a journey..." (36:00)
• Seek Community Support:
  • For those struggling with mindfulness, joining a group course with others can provide motivation, camaraderie, and understanding.
  • "What can be really helpful is to join a course where you're with other people who are starting out on this journey as well... it's also a great place to connect with people who absolutely get it..." (37:29)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "I was very happy to really put my head in the sand. And pretend that this was... nothing I really need to worry about." – Yvette (04:36)

• "Did a bit of googling, found George Jelinek's book, consumed it within a day, cleared out my cupboards within 48 hours..." – Yvette (04:51)

• "Chocolate was the hardest thing for me." – Yvette (15:19)

• "If they can’t actually make the food you need, you’re in the wrong restaurant." – Advice from an early OMS workshop, quoted by Yvette (16:41)

• "A lot of people practice mindfulness in the world, whether they’ve got MS, another chronic health condition or not... it can be a great grounding exercise..." – Yvette (32:34)

• "We're never going to stop [the mind wandering]... just noticing it and coming back... that's where the rewiring of the brain kind of happens." – Yvette (34:31)

• "If you mess up one day, that’s okay. There’s always a next day. So just kind of learn and... don’t be critical with yourself. This is a journey..." – Yvette (36:00)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Yvette’s MS story and avoidance of diagnosis: 01:19–07:05
• OMS discovery and radical change: 04:51–07:05
• Discrimination and disclosure: 06:10–07:52
• Is it ever too late to start OMS? 09:01–11:25
• Starting DMTs and medical decision-making: 11:26–14:59
• Difficult aspects of OMS (chocolate!): 15:19–16:41
• Diet, weight management, and cookbooks: 18:51–21:10
• Life changes from OMS: 21:10–22:52
• Workplace disclosure and advocacy: 22:52–25:58
• Facilitating mindfulness for OMS: 26:31–28:37
• What is mindfulness and its benefits for MS: 28:37–32:27
• Misconceptions about mindfulness: 32:59–35:42
• Advice for OMS newcomers: 36:00–37:22
• Resources for mindfulness courses: 37:29–38:56

Resources Mentioned

• Overcoming MS Chef’s Card (for restaurant dining)
• Ashley Madden’s OMS cookbooks
• Mindfulness-based courses via MS UK
• Global OMS Online Retreats

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a candid, practical, and optimistic look at the journey of living well with MS through OMS, from both the “inside” experience and a broader advocacy lens. Yvette’s insights into the realities of diagnosis, self-care, dietary change, mindfulness, and embracing support are relevant for anyone living with MS or considering the OMS approach.

For more information, course links, and resources, check the episode show notes on the Overcoming MS website.