← Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis
Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis
The power of lifestyle change with George Mckinty | S6E26
00:26:17
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- [00:00]
A
Until I got diagnosed, I was still partaking in some of those unhealthy habits, like, you know, drinking quite excessively, going out, staying up late, not looking after my. Or not sleeping enough. I wasn't that good before, I wouldn't say. At least from how I live now compared to how I live then, you know, it's extremely different how I live, how I live now.
- [00:23]
B
Welcome to Living well with Ms. This show comes to you from Overcoming ms, the world's leading multiple sclerosis healthy lifestyle lifestyle charity which helps people live a full and healthy life. Through the Overcoming Ms. Program, we interview a range of experts and people with multiple sclerosis. Please remember, all opinions expressed are their own. Help others discover Living well with Ms. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. And now let's meet our guest.
- [00:59]
C
Welcome to latest edition of the Living World with Ms. Podcast. Joining me on this edition is George McKinty from Cardiff in Wales. George is a bodybuilder who also has Ms. And is following the Overcoming Ms. Program. So welcome, George.
- [01:14]
A
Hello. Yeah, great to be here.
- [01:15]
C
Could you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your Ms. Journey and how you discovered overcoming ms?
- [01:22]
A
So I was. So my name is George. Sorry. I was diagnosed with relapsing, remitting multiple sclerosis back back in 2021. So it first presented itself where I lost about 80% of my vision in this eye and the vision I did have left over was basically double vision. And I think it was about two or three weeks before I was going to Ibiza where that came on. Whilst I was in Ibiza, I fell over a number of times and that was due to my foot drop of my right leg, which was a nightmare. Those, both of those symptoms I still suffer with. So I went to Spec Savers and they said, my vision's fine, but there's a problem with the optic nerve behind the eye. So they said, I need to go for an mri. Went to the mri, they said there was lesions on my brain and spinal cord that are consistent with Ms. I think then after, I think I had that before I went to Ibiza and then when I came back, they, yeah, they said that my fears were as they were. So, yeah, I do have multiple sclerosis in terms of finding Ms. I do a lot of research with, with the Ms. To understand, to educate myself as much as possible. What I learned is that 70% of your immune system, so obviously Ms. Is a disease of the central nervous system with an overactive immune system. That is attacking it. So 70% of that is built in the gut. So clearly diet was a significant approach that I needed to adopt in my life. So I did a lot of research. I know there's the best bet diet with Ashton Embry, there's the walls protocol with Dr. Walls and then there's the Roy Swank work who did like a 30 year study back in the 40s whereby you have low meat consumption, low dairy, high fish and you know, basically a Mediterranean diet which from my discovery is that OMS is fine tuned that approach and you, you know, intuitively they are the superior, that is the superior diet with vegetables and all of the other things like with fish consumption, low meats, low dairy. And I learned that it is a recovery approach for my ms, but it is also a preventative approach for other western diseases like diabetes, heart disease, cancer. And I actually lost my mother two years before diagnosis back in 20, 20, 19. So yeah, it was something that I wanted to do for that with obviously the fear of those diseases in future, but also to recover from Ms. So yeah, that's how I discovered the OMS approach.
- [04:02]
C
Speaking to a lot of people on this, there's quite a lot of people who the eyesight side of it is the thing that gets the final diagnosis. I was saying for me because I had double vision and a very similar story went to the optician because you do and them saying there's nothing wrong with your eyes, you need, you know, but something's going on so you need to have that looked. You need to speak to a neurologist.
- [04:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, well, I suffered from balance issues I think in, throughout my, well not throughout my childhood, but I did definitely suffer from balance issues with playing sports, etc. But yeah, I think what my biggest fear was when I went to Specsavers is that I'd have to wear glasses. And that was my biggest fear at the time because obviously up until then I've never worn glasses, never had issues with my eyesight and they said my was fine, but the problem is behind the eyes. So I think that was, you know, going blind in one eye. I couldn't put it down to anything else. And the thing when you go to Dr. Google, that's the thing that screams the most is optic neuritis. And optic neuritis not can only be ms, but pretty much it's likely to be Ms. And I also lost my uncle a few years ago and not, not because of his ms, but he did have Ms. And so yeah, I understand it comes in clusters, doesn't it? So it was likely to be slightly hereditary.
- [05:21]
C
They've now accepted that there is a familial link, which they hadn't done yet, even though my father had Ms. Yeah. The time I was diagnosed, they said, oh, we don't think there's a family connection. It's just coincidence. I also had perfect eyesight at the time, but the optician then did actually say to me, there is nothing wrong with your eyes. However, you're in your mid-40s and you're not going to hit 50s without needing reading glasses.
- [05:44]
A
I'll accept that. Yeah, that's fine. What I'm, you know, even if I had to wear them now, you know, I'm so accepted of quality of life. So if glasses help me and I need glasses, then it is what it is. I'll do it.
- [05:57]
C
So you mentioned diet, but obviously OMS is a bit more than that. So there's, there's diet, exercise, mindfulness, some of the core things, medication as well, taking vitamin D and so on. So did you have a particular difficulty actually adopting those pillars or were there ones that were easier than others?
- [06:21]
A
Good question. I think meditation is something that I have done for probably the last five to six years. I think the OMS approach promotes 30 minutes of meditation a day. I tried my best to hit that. I probably do about 20 minutes a day, to be honest, so. And that is snowballed. So at the start I was doing it every couple of days for 10 minutes, let's say, trying my best to do it as much as possible. But I've got ADHD that I manage. And because of that concentration and everything else, meditation was a difficult task for me. But, I mean, from my own experience and obviously doing a lot of research on it, I realized what a powerful tool it is. So I knew that I had to adopt that into my life. But I guess with OMS, it's predominantly around nutrition. So, you know, omega 3 from flaxseed oil, whole wheat, dairy, sugar and meat alternatives. So that is difficult to get your head around to adopt all of those things. I think trying to do it all at once and with, you know, the food prep of 180 degrees with olive oil, etc. Those sorts of things, it is, it is hard to adopt all of those things in your life, but a lot of them, like I say, I was doing anyway, and if I'm completely honest, and this is going to sound like sacrilege, but I do have the occasional Nandos once, maybe twice a year, more, not more than that. So yeah, so other than that, but generally I think it's. Yeah, I see the value in all of the things with, with rms. The pressure I put on myself early on is trying to adopt everything. Otherwise it's going to be disastrous. I think I remember having a wrap which also had cheese in it, funnily enough, and not finding out till. Till I, well, not finished it. But halfway through I realized, and I was so gutted that day. I remember thinking I'd made such a disastrous thing, but. But ultimately, yeah, I think it's doing what you. Doing as best as you can, really, and trying to limit, you know, the things that are going to be bad for your disease progression.
- [08:27]
C
Two thirds of people diagnosed with ms, and I think at least two thirds are women as regards to that. How is, how have you found it? As someone who's a man who's been diagnosed with ms? Did it make a difference?
- [08:40]
A
Yeah, well, from what I understand from the research I've done, it's more progressive with men, which is a very scary thought. And I know that, yeah, like you say, two thirds that are diagnosed are women. But I do, from my own understanding and also what I've read is the fact that I think a lot of men, especially if they've got the same, same Ms. That I've got with relapsing, remitting, whereby you have a relapse and then you go into remission, so it goes away or it gets a lot better for some people, completely cures. So I think that, you know, a lot of men that will have a temporary issue or they'll lose function temporarily and then get better, they think that there's no need to go to the doctors about it. So I think a lot more people, especially a lot more men, have it, but don't disclose that to the doctors, don't get it resolved. And ultimately that's why, that's why there's always seems to suggest that there's more women than men with it. Like my, my OMS group, for instance, I think there's about 15 to 20 people in it and they're all women, all a bit older than me at different stages of life, which it is difficult because I don't know how relatable I am to them. To be honest, having Ms. As a man in the early years, it really wreaked havoc on my confidence. So, you know, when your mobility is impacted, it is. It can be quite horrible, you know, being young in those sorts of environments like festivals or nights out, etc. And I mean, there's a lot of pressure on young men or on young people, but especially men at the moment. And I'm not spared from that. And the added pressure of managing a progressive condition that is ultimately incurable. It is, you know, it does, it does wreak havoc on your confidence. And I mean, sex, you know, is one of those pressures.
- [10:34]
C
There's a bit of an expectation, which is probably slightly sexist, that, that we are men in a traditional man role. And so there's things that, you know, in our household, which I traditionally have done. I mean, I've been married for 25 years, so, you know, I was doing the man roles, the DIY roles, you know, physical roles in our relationship. And now some of those, a lot of those my wife is doing because my bad is up to it or, you know, and so it's, it's accepting that that's quite a hard thing, I think actually when you sort of, you know, I, I always been like really active and fit and so I was like, you know, if it was physical, I was doing it. And now I'm either getting like my. Yeah, my son to do it or my wife to do it and things. Because it's. Yeah, there's. Physical things are harder for me to do. And that is a psychological change, I think, because you've got to accept that you're not that alpha male anymore.
- [11:30]
A
No. And it is that acceptance. Exactly. Which is very difficult to coordinate, to be honest. I think it's an ongoing battle. I think I'm better now than what I was. And I think you get there through a bit more self. Compassion. Compassion or at least from my, in my own experience, I think being compassionate with myself, that, you know, okay, those pressures do exist. But ultimately I've got to take care of myself because I do have this condition and you know, it can be debilitating. So it's. Yeah, it's an ongoing, ongoing struggle.
- [12:03]
C
You've got relapse, remitting ms, but some of your symptoms continue. So just a bit about. I mean, what are they and how do you, how do you manage to overcome problems those symptoms cause?
- [12:16]
A
Yeah, well, I've got the optic neuritis, like I mentioned. That was my initial symptom. I don't suffer from fatigue, thankfully. I think that's one of the most debilitating symptoms that people have. I do put that down to my lifestyle. So in terms of, you know, everything I do with where Ms. Is concerned and the bodybuilding side. So nutrition, lifestyle, exercise, obviously there's some forgetfulness as well. So I'VE limited my alcohol consumption. So very fun time for me at the moment. Learning to sort of adapt to that, that type of thing. Anxiety and depression. I think I do. I definitely suffer from, from anxiety at times. But, you know, that's. That I think I had that before my ms, to be honest. I do have mild tremors, so I do have. That's usually when I'm training quite intensely in the gym. So I shake. So if I'm, for instance, when I'm at work, I'll get a coffee. I can only get one coffee at a time. So it's quite a good excuse to be honest with my colleagues because if I had two drinks in my hands, I will be spilling you coffee. So there's that. And then I get random numbness in my fingertips. I've had that for years, to be honest, even before my ms, which I didn't realize that could have been my Ms. All those times.
- [13:34]
C
So I didn't know that has been put down. I had that a long time before Ms. Was lost sensation in my fingertips. As my neurologist said, that was Ms. Almost certainly because it was on all my fingertips. And that's unusual because it's two different nerves really go down. And I said if it's all your fingertips, probably. Yeah. And that's. But I mean, I say things go away though. I mean, I've never had double vision again. And so you mentioned bodybuilding. That. So I mean you can see on the people who are watching on YouTube those listening on podcast won't notice it, but you, but you are quite well built, so I'm not chatting you up.
- [14:09]
A
Or anything, but thank you.
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C
Well, so if you're into bodybuilding, then how has that, how's an Ms. Diagnosis affected that? Because there's, you know, obviously there's heat, probably things that come into it and just the ability to be able to train. So how's it affected? Heat to work out.
- [14:32]
A
Yeah, heat is an issue. It doesn't limit me, but it's like utops phenomenon, I believe it's called, where it exacerbates your symptoms temporarily when you train. From what I understand, long term, that doesn't actually have an impact on my disease progression. So I'm not too worried about that. It does. I mean, generally it's pretty positive because there's, you know, from a mental aspect, there's nothing more motivating to me than that perception of people with ms, you know, are in wheelchairs or how to say, or, you know, extremely tired or can't do anything. Else. So yeah, from that perspective it's been good. My left arm is starting to, it's not weak but it's the coordination when I'm lifting weights. It definitely is impacted from, I assume from my Ms. So that means I've just got to use my left arm quite a lot in terms of brushing my teeth or whatever else because I'm trying to build the neural connections through a process called neuroplasticity. And so that's, that's generally pretty good. I mean I do have foot drop so that is where if my leg is really fatigued from excessive contraction of it, it does start to weaken and then my left leg is a lot more fragile I guess and I don't lift my leg, my foot up enough and that does cause, cause me to trip at times. But generally it's. Yeah, I think it has had a good impact on my Ms. In that sense. And obviously the diet, its, it helps me to sculpture my body a lot more by eating such a low fat diet.
- [16:07]
C
Do you lift free weights?
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A
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely better to take precaution. You don't want to cause injury because that's, you know, that defeats the whole point of it altogether. You know, you're trying to strengthen your body. So. Yeah, I can, for now I can use free weights. I don't have a problem with that. But you know, in future maybe that will change. But it helps, it does help with balance, it helps with coordination, helps with like exercise itself, helps with fatigue. So as long as you take it slow, then yeah, you should be fine.
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C
And you completed recently I think called the 300 Challenge, which is in support of overcoming Ms. And this was named on and thought of because 300 people are diagnosed with Ms. Across the globe every day. What did that involve? What did you do and, and what inspired you to do it?
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A
Yeah, it involved three marathons over three days. So I wasn't running. So like I said, I've got foot drops. So running is out of the question. I can still run probably for about 10, 15 minutes before I'd start causing injury. So I walked those three marathons. So it took, well, I walked just over 80 miles. It took 23.5 hours. Obviously that's collectively. I didn't do it as a straigh run three marathons, that's over the three days. I burned something like 8,000 calories in terms of me doing it. It was, I think I needed to pick a significant challenge. You know, it was my, this was my opportunity essentially to give back to the Charity that has given me so much hope during some drastic, you know, the last two, three years have been, you know, quite, quite difficult. So if I didn't have the three and if I didn't have the OMS charity or the approach that you guys promote, then it would have been quite difficult for time. So this was my chance essentially to give back and I knew it needed to be a significant challenge. So that's why I chose to do three marathons. And like I said, I mean you're.
- [18:12]
C
Sort of putting it down saying, saying you didn't run it, you walked it. But I mean, I've done a lot, it's still none walking and I've had run a marathon in the past, but I've also walked a lot. It's a significant distance, an amazing accomplishment, I have to say.
- [18:26]
A
Yeah, it was, it was difficult. I mean, I knew I sound silly, but I knew I could do it because I did a marathon, a few weeks at one marathon because I was in a step challenge with people in work and I wanted to work, walk 50,000 miles in one day, which ended up being like 27 miles. So I thought I could do this and you know, like I said, it was the opportunity for me to give back and it helped me. I knew, like I said, I knew I could do it. I wanted to raise funds for the charity, I wanted to spread awareness. But you know, I wanted to do it for me more than anything because I want, you know, I've been silent with the Ms. For three years now. So it was my chance to give back, basically, which was good. It was positive. I raised just under two grand and that is.
- [19:11]
C
Well, that is impressive. Yeah. So would you say that there have been positives that you've done with being diagnosed with msn?
- [19:18]
A
Yeah, I'd say that before being diagnosed, I mean, I've always tried to be fairly healthy, you know, with the training, diet, etc. But I did have a lot of unhealthy habits which, you know, until I got diagnosed I was still partaking in some of those unhealthy help it habits. Sorry. Like, you know, drinking quite excessively, going out, staying, staying up late, not looking after my, or not sleeping enough, things like that. I mean it's, you know, it wasn't, I wasn't that good before, I wouldn't say, at least from how I live now compared to how I live then, you know, it's extremely different how I live, how I live now. It's a slightly more sheltered life now, if I'm honest. I Try and say so stay social as much as I can. But transitioning from the life I used to live when all of my friends, you know, still live in that world, it is quite difficult. So I'm. I feel good about it, you know, I'm finally living how I want to live and ultimately the genie's out the bottle. So if I do try to partake in what I used to do in terms of going out, like I say, binge drinking, etcetera, it's just not as fun as what it was. So I feel the biggest positive is understanding it's not to be cheesy. But, you know, I've now recognized my authentic self in that I'm quite introverted and I'm just very good at playing an extrovert. So it's, you know, the whole experience has humbled me and made me a much more compassionate person. I mean, I would have loved to have had 10 to 15 more years of ignorance. But like my mum said in her final letter to me, it wasn't meant to be. So, you know, I wouldn't trade in the lessons I've learned through this adversity because I think this sort of thing defines this, you know, it gives you appreciation for life. And I think that if I hadn't had this, I wouldn't have known what I'm capable of and I don't think I'd want a different path than the desire to get better.
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C
And what do you think is your biggest strength that has helped you along that path?
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A
My biggest strength, I would say, is my perception of it. I think your perception is everything. So although, you know, I can't walk like I used to, there's a lot of things I can't do like I used to. But I think this, it is all perception. If you tell yourself it's the worst thing that's ever happened to you or you can't do something, then you're absolutely right. So I think you need to change your mindset and that's, that's what's absolutely helped me. And it's proven to myself how capable I am that I could, I could do this. I mean, I always knew I was strong, but I wouldn't have known if I didn't have the Ms. I wouldn't have known just how much or how capable I actually am. And it's just showed me how resilient I am, which I think I owe down to my family bond. So my mum, you know, like I say, she had unshakable courage during her adversity My dad's Bobalicious, we call him. He's, you know, helped me with, he's helped me my whole life. My brother and sister, they're on the same level as me, so they, they keep me sane, to be honest. So, you know, through that and that positivity, through every aspect, that's, you know, everything I faced so far with Ms. Has helped me through it and you know, being able to stay calm in stressful situations like a Ms. Relapse, which thankfully, so far, touchwords, I've actually only had one, which was August 2021. So I'm literally coming up to three years now. Relapse free. Yeah. So it's, it's that that unshakable positivity has helped me massively more than anything. And obviously when I relapse, if, and when it does come, I'll just accept my new norm again and again and face it with the same tools that I face it with today.
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C
And this is something we ask a lot of people on the podcast. If you've got any tips for someone who's maybe recently diagnosed with Ms. Or they just started on the Overcoming Ms. Program, what tips would you give them? As someone who's been doing it a little while now.
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A
I would say take one thing at a time, breathe. Because it is overwhelming. Being diagnosed with this condition alone is, it's, yeah, it's, it can be, it can be devastating. But ultimately you've just gotta make sure you don't get overwhelmed. I would say educate yourself on Ms. And you'll quickly learn that the OMS approach is fine tuned to, to, to look after your health. I think, you know, acceptance will come and go, but I think that staying on, staying consistent with the diet, with the approach, with the exercise, it is good. I think be careful of what you read because you can read a thousand positive stories and it only takes one negative story to knock you off your kilter for that day or week or month. So, yeah, I would say do your research and yeah, do one thing at a time. Like we said earlier, you don't need to be perfect with the approach. It does, you know, it might sound quite limiting with the nutritional side especially because, I mean, I never thought I would stop eating beef burgers and cheese and try things like oat milk or tofu. But, but in actual fact, there's a much wider range of plant based foods and those different approaches that I would have never tried if I didn't have Ms. And I didn't find the OMS approach. So just adopt one thing at a time and you will soon see the value in it in the short term, but also in the long term.
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C
Okay, and with that, I'd like to thank you very much for joining us. George McKinty thank you.
- [25:16]
A
Thank you for having me. Jeff.
- [25:19]
B
Thank you for listening to this episode of Living well with Ms. Please check out this episode's show notes@overcomingms.org podcast. You'll find useful links and bonus information there. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And please rate and review the show to help others find us. This show is made possible by the Overcoming Ms. Community. Our theme music is by Claire and Mav Dean. Our host is Jeff Alex. Our videos are edited by Lorna Greenwood and I'm the producer, Regina Beach. Have questions or ideas to share? Email us@podcastvercomingms.org we'd love to hear from you. The Living Room with Ms. Podcast is for private, non commercial use and exists to educate and inspire our community of listeners. We do not offer medical advice. For medical advice, please contact your doctor or other licensed healthcare professional.