Episode Overview

Podcast: Living Well with Multiple Sclerosis
Episode: Thriving through 40 years with MS with David Peimer | S7E22
Host: Geoff Allix
Guest: David Peimer, playwright, director, and professor
Release Date: October 22, 2025

This moving and insightful episode features David Peimer, whose journey with MS spans over four decades. With candor, wisdom, and practicality, David shares not only his survival but his thriving in the face of grim prognoses. He talks about the evolution of his self-management strategies—including diet, stress management, community, therapy, and medication—while unflinchingly addressing the emotional landscape of chronic illness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. David Peimer’s Background and Diagnosis

• Professional Introduction (01:01–02:03):
  • David is an accomplished professor of literature, film, and theater with global appointments and numerous playwriting awards.
• Onset of MS (02:03–03:44):
  • First major MS episode at age 21 while in the South African army—sudden paralysis after a day at the beach.
  • Diagnosis process was protracted and traumatic, involving six neurologists, no MRI, and limited understanding.
  • “All of them said I'll be dead within 4 to 5 years…So I booked my plot in the cemetery at a very young age and thought that's it. Game over.” (03:13–03:32)
• Emotional Fallout & Turning Point:
  • Experienced ‘serious depression, fear, turned into anger.’
  • Converted anger into a creative force for research and self-advocacy.

2. Building a Personalized Approach: Diet, Research, and Medication

• Discovery and Adoption of Diet (03:44–08:55):

  • Immersed himself in medical and scientific literature, corresponding worldwide with experts.
  • Inspired by Judy Graham’s “Managing Multiple Sclerosis” and Dr. Swank’s research, he adopted the Swank diet—a low-saturated fat, whole-foods regime.
  • “The only thing I'm evangelical about in life, besides theatre and the arts and literature and film, is the Swank diet.” (05:34–05:40)
  • Slow, hard-won improvements after years ‘religiously’ adhering to diet. Never returned to his lowest point.

• Introduction to Overcoming MS (OMS) Program (08:55–11:03):

  • Via Judy Graham, discovered OMS and Dr. George Jelinek’s evidence-based approach marrying diet, supplements, stress management, and exercise.
  • “George Jelinek’s book and OMS are amazing and brilliant…he combines all the evidence-based approach…with diet, vitamins, stress management…” (08:59–09:23)

• Medication Journey: Copaxone (11:29–12:44):

  • Joined one of the first Copaxone trials; still injects daily.
  • “I fought like hell…I weighed up the risk-benefit ratio…possible benefit outweighed possible risk. I would take a chance with my body.” (11:47–12:13)
  • Side effects minimal compared to MS symptoms.

3. Managing Stress, Anger, and Mental Health

• Stress as a Relapse Trigger (09:40–11:18):

  • “When we are really honest…I have found stress can trigger, not cause…a relapse.” (10:21–10:37)
  • Developed the motto: “Take the path of least stress whenever I can.” (10:57–11:01)
  • Routine includes psychotherapy, exercise (especially swimming), and vigilance regarding infections or stressors.

• Anger, Fear, and the Power of Channeling (15:22–17:29):

  • Emphasizes the necessity and benefit of channeling anger and fear:
    • “Anger can be a creative energy...like fire can be creative, it can be destructive. I could destroy myself with anger.” (16:23–16:32)
  • Therapy: spent five years to better understand and manage his emotional responses, selecting therapists carefully.
  • “The aim is two things. Number one, lessen your suffering. And number two, to try and find out to reach a stage where you are stimulus unbound…Let the stimulus come, but don’t be bound to it.” (17:43–18:11)

4. Life Choices, Compromise, and Passions

• Navigating Career and Ambition after Diagnosis (19:28–22:18):

  • Army and conscription in apartheid South Africa; eventual shift to academia for stability.
  • Creative pursuits in theater and university life ran “in parallel,” a compromise between passion and reality.

• Role Models and Inspiration

  • Reference to Nelson Mandela’s ability to face his tormentors as a metaphor for confronting MS:
    • “I thought to myself, I'll have a cup of tea with my rage, I'll have a cup of tea with my anger…Like if he could do it well, who was I to not try and do it with MS?” (21:33–22:14)

• Advice for Younger People with MS (22:36–24:53):

  • “Try and find out the stress triggers…try and find a passion in work and love…combine passion with money, whatever that passion may be, and know that a compromise is going to have to be made.” (22:36–24:12)
  • Seek help, find community, and accept that one must make deals with oneself.

5. Daily Living, Fatigue, and Community Support

• Managing Fatigue and Day-to-Day Function (24:53–26:41):

  • “I became obsessed with the minutiae of the diet and vitamins…now I know I’m able to put that aside for a while…” (25:09–25:40)
  • Acknowledges fatigue but credits relentless self-management and help from others for his ongoing function.

• Community and Giving Back (26:41–27:21):

  • Letters, phone calls, sharing experiences pre-internet, discovering a supportive network.
  • Now offers guidance to hundreds, emphasizing what worked for him but refusing to be prescriptive.

6. Philosophy, Resilience, and Final Takeaways

• Metaphor of Surfing the Wave of History (00:00, 27:21–29:17):

  • “Are we the foam on the wave of history…or can we try and slip into the wave and try and surf in some way and make some choices?” (00:00 and 28:45–29:02)

• Advice for the Newly Diagnosed & OMS Newcomers (29:34–31:38):

  • “Get in touch with your anger and rage and have tea with it…channeling the rage into something positive to fight.”
  • Research, understand the science, try interventions, connect with others.
  • “Try and be partly married and partly divorced to MS. One can’t be fully either…try and surf that wave, not be the mere foam of it.” (31:23–31:38)

• Role of Foundational Texts (31:42–32:13):

  • “George Jelinek's book together with Judy Graham's book are my two Bibles, literally. I go back to them again and again…In my darkest hours I read them again and again.” (31:45–31:55)
  • Redefines morality as ‘lessening suffering,’ encouraging the community to help each other.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David Peimer:

  • “Anger can be a creative energy at times, if one combines it with what one has between the ears.” (03:21)
  • “Never give up, never surrender, Mr. Churchill.” (30:08)
  • “Try and be partly married and partly divorced to MS. One can’t be fully either…try and surf that wave, not be the mere foam of it.” (31:23–31:38)
  • “Morality is not about good and evil, right and wrong. Morality is about lessening suffering…Let's try and help each other.” (31:58–32:09)

• On facing limits and critics:

  • “I had a professor who said to me, David, you'll never write a play better than Shakespeare, so why bother writing?...I said, professor, you don't have a clue. And I'm not going to listen to you because…that's the wave you surf, not mine.” (27:50–28:25)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction to guest and diagnosis – [01:01–03:44]
• Path to diet-based management & Swank diet story – [03:44–08:55]
• Adoption of OMS and holistic strategies – [08:55–11:03]
• Medication, Copaxone trial – [11:29–12:44]
• Stress, psychotherapy, anger/mental health – [13:48–18:37]
• Career compromise and Mandela anecdote – [19:28–22:18]
• Advice for newly diagnosed/younger people – [22:36–24:53]
• Fatigue and daily management – [24:53–26:41]
• Community’s impact – [26:41–27:21]
• Surfing the wave of history, final advice – [00:00, 27:21–31:38]
• Closing reflections and morality – [31:42–32:13]

In David’s Words: Three Guiding Mottos

1. Take the path of least stress.
2. Channel anger creatively, not destructively.
3. Seek to be “stimulus unbound”—respond, but don’t be enslaved by what happens.

Conclusion

David Peimer’s candid, philosophically rich account is a profound testimony to surviving—and thriving—despite a dire prognosis. His story is a blend of relentless self-education, the search for strategies he could control (diet, exercise, therapy), and an openness to help and community, underpinned by a lifelong commitment to channeling his emotions into purposeful living. Above all, he encourages others to explore every avenue, cultivate curiosity and passion, and remember: “What’s to lose?”