BONUS: Inside Joe Mazzulla's Head, and Why He's Better Than Ime Udoka Would Have Been

Summary

Locked On Celtics - BONUS: Inside Joe Mazzulla's Head, and Why He's Better Than Ime Udoka Would Have Been

Host: John Karalis
Guest: Tom Westerholm
Date: February 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, John Karalis and regular contributor Tom Westerholm dive deep into the psyche and coaching philosophy of Boston Celtics head coach Joe Mazzulla, comparing him with his predecessor, Ime Udoka. The discussion centers on why the Celtics’ choice of Mazzulla—initially shaped by circumstance—has not just worked out but arguably positioned the team for even greater long-term success. The episode provides candid insight into Mazzulla's unconventional motivational methods, his relationship with players and media, and what truly makes him a standout coach in today’s NBA.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How the Celtics Came to Hire Joe Mazzulla

(01:49 - 03:21)

• John recounts the context of Ime Udoka’s suspension/firing and Mazzulla’s ascension:

  "Him getting the job meant it wasn’t going to be Will Hardy… there was not going to be ‘he’s still coaching via this guy.’ But Brad [Stevens] always believed in him, and now we see why he's a little crazy." (03:00, John)

• Mention of both Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge's faith in Mazzulla—Ainge even tried to hire Joe before settling for his brother.

2. Mazzulla vs. Udoka: Philosophies and Approaches

(03:30 - 07:34)

• Tom frames Udoka’s style as "old school tough love"—very direct, challenging players to be harder and stronger.
• Mazzulla, while demanding toughness (with MMA, jiu jitsu, and animal metaphors), does it through building a familial, tribal feeling.

  "With Ime, there was a level of challenging his own players… Whereas Joe has done this tribal thing of, it’s us, and them… but with his players, he’s like: Jason, I love you. Jalen, I love you. Derek, I love you. This, like, familial thing… I'm demanding a lot because I believe in you." (05:49, Tom)

• Both agree: this modern "family toughness" connects more authentically with today’s players and is more effective.

3. Inside Joe Mazzulla’s Head: Personality & Motivation

(07:42 - 10:27)

• John describes Mazzulla as a "lunatic," but one whose brain works by relentless analogy and challenge:

  "Joe needs to test himself… The orcas and the wolves and all that… I get it… he is unabashedly himself." (07:49, John)

• This authenticity resonates—players even find it funny but effective. Al Horford’s change of favorite animal after a Mazzulla presentation is cited as telling.

4. Media Interactions: Transparency and Testing

(10:28 - 15:06)

• On Mazzulla’s sometimes uncooperative press attitude, John says:

  "I will take that as a member of the media—at least this is who he is… the challenge is on us to find a different way to connect." (11:55, John)

• Both discuss the infamous (and somewhat embarrassing) media/Celtics pickup basketball game engineered by Mazzulla, which Tom admits he still thinks was "stupid," but John insists was another deliberate "test" of toughness.

5. Mazzulla’s Constant Testing: What He Wants from His Circle

(15:56 - 19:25)

• John interprets the impromptu media game as not bullying, but Mazzulla’s way of vetting everyone involved with the team:

  "He is constantly testing—his players, himself, his coaches, Brad and the owners, the media… if you’re going to be around me and my team, what are you made of? What’s your motivation? He needs to know all of that so he can protect his team." (15:56, John)

• Tom reflects that he’d have found the situation hard to handle, but John assures that’s exactly what Mazzulla wants—he “loves” when people get competitive and show passion.

6. On Mazzulla as a Basketball Genius

(22:34 - 24:54)

• Tom highlights:

  "He is pretty literally a genius, right? His basketball brain just goes and grinds… He puts that to work along with 15 of the best players in the world… it's the perfect sandbox for him." (23:17, Tom)

• The Celtics’ lack of weaknesses is in large part due to Mazzulla’s relentless preparation and creative thinking.

7. The Philosophy of 'Nobody Cares' and 'It Doesn’t Matter'

(24:54 - 28:36)

• John explains Mazzulla’s core precepts, both psychologically liberating and performance-focused:

  “He prepares maniacally… and always says, ‘nobody cares and it doesn’t matter.’ …90% of what you think matters, just doesn’t… If you get to clarity on what does matter, you unlock so much… That’s the genius of Joe Mazzulla. He gets to the heart of things.” (25:00, John)

• This keeps the Celtics focused, treating every game—Lakers rivalry included—without unnecessary emotional weight, which helps them sustain excellence.

8. How Discipline and Culture Translate to Winning

(28:36 - 30:25)

• Tom expounds on discipline:

  “Discipline isn’t doing things you don’t want to do; it’s doing the things that matter, over and over… That’s what Joe has instilled—a culture of that level of discipline.” (29:00, Tom)

9. Mazzulla’s Personal Growth and “Therapy Celtics” Philosophy

(30:25 - 32:29)

• Mazzulla’s own troubled past and redemption arc colors his approach:

  "He had to come to grips… be a better person. Just because you made a mistake doesn't mean you can't come out of it and understand why you did that… and be a better person." (30:25, John)

• Laughter about the Celtics being a "therapy team," with Joe as the "Bro-therapy" coach:

  “That’s Joe—Joe is a therapy coach. It’s very bro-therapy… but it’s still therapy, man.” (31:20, John)
  “Ime Udoka sends you to therapy by belittling you… Joe is Ime with therapy.” (31:46-32:22, Tom/John)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the difference in leadership style:

  “Ime’s whole thing was 'toughness'… Joe also demands toughness, but he does it by loving his players and building a family.” (05:40, Tom – 06:45)

• On Mazzulla’s authenticity:

  “He is unabashedly himself… When guys see that, it’s funny, yeah, but it works.” (09:00, John)

• On discipline vs. motivation:

  “Discipline isn’t just forcing yourself to do the hard thing. It’s doing the important thing, whatever it is, over and over.” (28:50, Tom)

• The “therapy” Celtics concept:

  “That’s Joe. Joe is a therapy coach. Bro-therapy, but still therapy.” (31:22, John)
  “Whereas Ime Udoka sends you to therapy by belittling you… Joe is Ime with therapy.” (31:46, Tom & John)

• On Mazzulla’s approach to games and focus:

  “If you make this Lakers game bigger, the Phoenix game becomes less. You just focus on what matters and move on. That’s why the Celtics keep winning.” (27:40, John)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:49–03:21 – Origins of Joe Mazzulla’s hiring; Boston leadership’s faith in him
• 03:30–07:34 – Comparing Ime Udoka’s and Joe Mazzulla’s coaching philosophies
• 07:42–10:27 – Unpacking how Joe’s brain works and why his approach resonates
• 10:28–15:06 – Mazzulla’s methods with the media, including the infamous pickup game
• 15:56–19:25 – Joe’s constant “testing” of everyone around his team
• 22:34–24:54 – Mazzulla’s basketball genius and the “perfect sandbox” analogy
• 24:54–28:36 – The power of focus: “Nobody cares, it doesn’t matter”
• 28:36–30:25 – Real discipline: doing what matters (and why the Celtics win)
• 30:25–32:22 – Mazzulla’s personal growth and the “therapy Celtics” motif

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Tone and Energy

The conversation is open, analytical, and peppered with humor. Both hosts balance personal anecdotes with basketball insight, keeping the tone irreverent but thoughtful—a reflection of Mazzulla himself.

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Summary Takeaway

This bonus episode offers not just a compelling comparison between two contemporary Celtic coaches but a meditation on modern leadership in pro sports. Joe Mazzulla’s unique blend of intensity, authenticity, relentless focus, and emotionally intelligent “therapy-bro” persona has clearly won over his team, the Celtics organization, and even (eventually) the media covering him. The Celtics’ current success is painted as a direct result of this rare and powerful approach—one that’s “new school" but rooted in connection, purpose, and clarity.

Transcript

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

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[John Corrales]

we got bonus content right here for Lockdown Celtics listeners. Thank you for being here. It's a normally Monday through Friday podcast, but if you're just catching this is this is your first experiences bonus content. We're going to do this every once in a while, giving you a little extra conversation. And I'm bringing in Tom Westerholm here. I'm John Corrales, by the way. I'm covering the Celtics four sis Locked on. What am I doing? Sis?

[Tom Westerholm]

You really have to think about that one.

[John Corrales]

So it's funny, when I do my normal intro, it's I can do it without thinking like just whatever. Now when I do something else, I who. Who am I? Oh yeah, that's who I am. So John Corral is here. Hi. Been covering the Celtics for 20 years, doing this podcast for 10. We're doing bonus content here. Joe Missoula Joe Missoula vs. Eme Udoka we just had a conversation on the podcast, the full podcast, about Joe Missoula Coach of the year.

[Tom Westerholm]

But spoiler, we're in favor.

[John Corrales]

Yes, but go listen to that podcast anyway. But this was this was posed by a Houston Rockets account and basically the question is like, how do you feel about IME now? And how do you feel about IME versus Joe Missoula? And like when, when IME got fired or suspended before he got fired, I I knew Joe, like had to be the choice because he was Kind of like the only one there that didn't have a connection to ime. And he, like, him getting the job meant, like, it wasn't going to be Will Hardy. It wasn't gonna be like, one of the other assistants that was kind of connected to Eme. So, you know, they would. There was not going to be like that. Oh, he's still coaching via this guy. But Brad always believed in him, and now we see why he's a little crazy.

[Tom Westerholm]

Danny Ainge also really believed in Joe Missoula. Yes, interestingly.

[John Corrales]

But, yeah. Yeah, well, he wanted to hire him. He wanted to hire Joe Missoula. And so, yeah, and. And he. He settled for Joe Missoula's brother, which joke. But he did get Domazula's brother, which was one of the funnier kind of interactions, by the way, with Joe. We're like, oh, so you're playing your brother tonight? He's like, he's on the other team. But isn't there anything. He's like, no, he's on the other team. I don't care. He's on the other team. He's an enemy now. And, like, it's a good place to start because Joe, that. That's how Joe is. We look at him versus ime and Emea was like, the right guy at the right time and got them to the finals, and who knows what they would have been with IME if he had stuck around. But he may go into Houston and having that whole thing kind of fall apart. I don't know, man. Obviously, you look at the situation like this. This worked out very well. Joe Missoula is. This is. I think, when history is written and we look at these two coaches at the end of their careers, I think Joe Missoula's career is just gonna be like, whoa, this is like, ime's gonna be fine. And who knows, he might win a, you know, championship or two. Whatever Joe is, I would be shocked if he finishes his career with one championship.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think the. In. One of the most interesting things to me about that question that Red94 posed is when you compare IME and Joe, right? Ime's whole thing was really like, you know, toughness. Like, you know, getting your players like, you know, like. Like what? What are you gonna be, like, a pansy? You know, like, you know, get up to it, right? And it's interesting, right, because, like, you know, he had this kind of whole hardo thing going on, right? And Joe does, too, though. You know, Joe has this, like, Also has a hardo thing going on where he's like, oh, like, I'm. I do MMA and I, you know, like, you know, that's my brother over there. He's the enemy. You know, he. Like, we're. We're where a bunch of orcas trying to, you know, hunt the seals. And he's got all his, you know, he's got his. All his little animal metaphors and everything. But I think the really important distinction, and I think one of the reasons why Joe has resonated so well with his players is that there was a certain level with IME of, like, challenging his own players to step up and be tougher and be stronger. Whereas I think Joe has sort of done this sort of tribal thing of, like, it's us, and there's them and us right here. I love you. Like, Jason, I love you. Jalen, I love you. Derek, I love you. This, like, familial thing, right? This. This, like, we are a family together, and we are here to try to win together. And we're going to be tough, and we're going to be strong, and we're going to be stronger than them because they're the enemy. And we're going to, you know, we're going to be fighters, literally. We're going to. We're going to learn how to fight. We're going to learn how to. How to do. Why can't I think of the martial art that he does? Jiu jitsu. We're gonna. We're gonna, you know, we're gonna be like jiu jitsu, guys, and also wolves and also orcas. Like, it's kind of this, like, you know, like, it's this crazy thing that totally works for him. I think, one, because he is unbelievably himself in all of this, right? And his players see all that authenticity. And also, two, because he is also demanding toughness and demanding all this stuff, but he's doing it in a very different, and I think, honestly, a far more effective way than IME does, you know, this. This. I love you. I believe in you. I expect a lot out of you because I believe in you so much. Like, that, to me, is very different than, like, you need to toughen up, you know?

[John Corrales]

Yeah, yeah, I. I prefer it a lot.

[Tom Westerholm]

Which is one of the reasons why I think that Joe Missoula is a much better coach than IME Udoka. But, yeah, I don't know.

[John Corrales]

One of the things about Joe that's always struck me is just the way his brain works. And I I going to say this in a way, like, my brain kind of works processes, like, things in the same. Same kind of way. I'm not. I'm not a lunatic like he is, because I don't. That. I think that's just a product of, like, upbringing and stuff like that. And so he's. He's very much. I need to test myself kind of thing. Like, that's. That's Joe. Joe needs to test himself. And I'm. I'm not that person where I need to tell. I'm like, I know who I am. I don't need any kind of tests. I'm very well aware of all that stuff. But the stuff that he says about, like, the orcas and the wolves and all that stuff, that's just analogy stuff. And that's where my brain goes. And so I've always understood Joe and some of, like, where he's going, the. The machine guns and the war sounds and stuff. Like, I can. I get it. I kind of get why he's doing it. I get the stuff that he's trying to accomplish playing spike ball. Like, okay, yeah, that actually makes sense to me. Where. So Joe, as I said in the last podcast, is much smarter than me when it comes to the basketball stuff, but the philosophical stuff, I get it. I understand it. So from the beginning, I'm like, I. I'm. I'm on board with this guy. I see what he's trying to do, and it works. And it works. Like you said, it works because of the authenticity. He is unabashedly himself. He is himself. And when the guys see that, it's. It's just. First of all, it's funny because you're like, you were what? We're watching killer whales, all right? But you, like, you hear Al Horford talk about that last year or two years ago, and he's like, yeah, he showed it to us. And they're like, man, it made sense. And all of a sudden, the killer whale is now my favorite animal, you know? So it. That. That's. That's the joke. I will take a Joe Missoula and I will. I will have that interaction with him a million times where you ask him a question and he just gives you nothing. Or, like, what he did to Bobby Manning.

[Tom Westerholm]

I was gonna say sometimes very literally nothing.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, what he did to Bobby, like, And, like, Bobby asked the question they had already asked the day before, and so he was just pushing him again on it. I understand why he had to do it, but, like, Joe was just like, I'm I'm not answering that because I've answered that and you've asked now 10 different ways. You're not getting an answer out of me. So at this point, I'm literally not going to answer you. It's just. And I will take that. I will take that as a me, a member of the media, because I'm like, at least. At least this is who he is. And the challenge is on me. The challenge is on us to be. All right, let's. Let's find a different way to connect. Let's find a different way to ask the question. Let's find something else where that. That relationship grows. And if it means he and his coaches have to decimate us by a thousand points in a pickup game. Today's show is brought to you by Indeed Workplace Chaos. Deadlines stacking up, inbox overflowing. And the one position you have to fill is. Is still sitting open. Now that's when the pressure is on, and you need to make the right hire. That's where Sponsored Jobs from. Indeed comes in. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps you reach the people who actually fit what you're looking for. Skills, experience, location. So you're not just hoping the right candidate stumbles across your post. You're finding the right person. This is much like putting a basketball team together. You would never expect Brad Stevens to hope to find the right player. He's doing all the scouting. So is Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And in the minute that I'm Talking to you, 27 hires have been made around the world, according to Indeed data. So if you're hiring, spend less time searching and more time interviewing candidates who actually check off all your boxes with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing the candidates with less strat, less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. You will get $75 of sponsored job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

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[John Corrales]

Thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. You're in every day or you're with me every Monday through Friday. You're with me on these bonus podcasts when they come up. Now join the Locked on Celtics every day or club at locked on celtics.super cast.com you'll get AD free audio available on all major podcasts app like Apple and Spotify. You get a members only Locked on every dare club Discord server, which includes a group chat just for Celtics fans and NBA fans. It's all@lockdown celtics.supercast.com it's five bucks a month, 50 bucks for the year if you want to do that. So go check that out. I'll leave the link in the show notes as well.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's. It's so funny to have like this conversation now because, like, how many months ago was it? Like, I, I mean, I, I just, I was so unimpressed by him doing that. Like, I just thought that it was like, it was like, I don't know. To me, it just, it, it. There was something so, I don't know, grade school about it. Like, yeah, what? You're gonna write mean things about us. We'll come. We're gonna, we're gonna put buckets on you. And it's like, yeah, of course you are. You're like, look like, you guys. I don't know, that whole thing, that whole thing rubbed me the wrong way. And, and, you know, again, here we are. I mean, on the last podcast, we're, we're both just like, no, Joe Missoula is the coach of the year. I'm sorry. He is like, you know, you know, if I'm, if I'm gonna criticize him, there it is. There's the thing I found that I'm gonna criticize him about. I still think that that media pickup game was still stupid.

[John Corrales]

Like, I never, I never looked at it that way. I just never saw it as a bullying thing. I saw it as a, A test. Whenever Joe does something like that, he's testing something, somewhere, somebody. And that was it. That was testing us. And immediately after the game. And I was pissed. In that moment, I was absolutely pissed off. But immediately after that game, his attitude towards us changed so much. He even said, I wish we can go grab a beer. Right now that's. He'll what he could have, for what

[Tom Westerholm]

it's worth service there. You absolutely could have, Joe. There's no nothing stopping you.

[John Corrales]

We absolutely could have. Yeah, there's, there are many places around

[Tom Westerholm]

there but yeah, quite close by.

[John Corrales]

But the whole, the whole thing was he, his brain works like he, he is, he is constantly testing, he's testing his players, he's testing himself, he tests his coach, his coaches. I'm sure he tests Brad and the owners and like, yeah, he tests the meat. Like he is in complete control of that environment and he needs to know who, who is, who is in my orbit. Who are you? And if you're going to be around me and my team, who are you? What are you made of? What's your deal? What's your motivation? And maybe from a media perspective, from an outside perspective, maybe from a fan perspective, you're like, well who the hell is he to. It's not on him to make that determination about you. And you might and you're right if you look at it from that perspective. But he is trying to win a championship and I and other media members surround his team all the time and we talk and we develop relationships and some media members are closer to certain players and, and we, he doesn't know who is talking to, I don't know, Baylor Scheireman who's talking to Jaylen Brown, who's talking to any of these guys.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right.

[John Corrales]

And so if you're going to be around them, what's your deal? What, what are you made of? What's your motivation? Yeah, he needs to know all of that so he can, he's got to protect his team. He's got to protect his. What he's trying to accomplish. And if one of us, we puts us through that game and somebody quits or somebody cries, somebody complains, that person is immediately going to be, he's going to have a tough time with that team and nobody did, not a single person did. And that's why his tone changed with us immediately. Still does the stare down thing and all that, but that's, that's how I see all of that stuff.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. So that's fair.

[John Corrales]

I think.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think for me I would have been like catatonic. Like I would have been so angry. Like oh, I would have had a very difficult time. Like I would have been non verbal, you know what I mean? Like after that game, like I would just, I just would have been so mad. So I'm like for me, I like look at that game and I'm like, boy, I don't know how. I don't know how I would have. I don't know how I would have presented to Joe Missoula after that game.

[John Corrales]

So he would have loved that. That's what he wanted. That's what he wanted. He wanted you to be mad about it. And I know you, we've played basketball together. You would have done the same thing the rest of us were trying to do. You would have been like, you know, mf this guy. And, you know, I. I need to find a way to get a shot off. I know I can shoot. I'm just gonna pull from here. We're gonna. I'll be so mad. Like, I threw a towel at Joe. I wanted to throw an elbow at Joe, but I'm too old and fat. I couldn't catch him. So that's like.

[Tom Westerholm]

And.

[John Corrales]

And I told him, I told him after the game I was trying like hell to elbow. He was like, oh, I wish you would have. You know, like, that's, that's who he. Like, he loves that. He wants that. He liked the fact that I pushed Jack Simone out, out of bounds because I was pissed that he got an offensive rebound on me. And that was. I was intentionally following him and I gave him a little something extra. And Joe's. Joe loves that because it's like competitive. So you being non verbal and all that stuff, he'd be like, he's competitive. Joe's biggest takeaway from that was all of these people love basketball. They love the game basically as much as we do. And you would have shown that in that situation too. And the takeaway is, well, they're just media members. They just not great basketball players. You know, you're around the 15 of the best basketball players in the world. And like I said, I'm. I'm in my 50s. My. My best basketball is decades ago. And so, you know, but my brain, your brain, everybody else's brain is still competitive. And that's what he wanted to see and so that he, he got what he wanted out of it, and we've moved on. Today's show is brought to you by fanduel. You ever want to experience the NBA Finals live and in person? I've done it. It's great. Highly recommended. FanDuel is giving you the chance to turn that dream into a reality with their NBA sweepstakes. Here's how it works. You use a profit boost on any NBA future and you'll automatically be entered for a shot to win an NBA Finals trip for Two. So that's everything. That's flights, tickets, the whole experience. If you're already looking to check out the board and see which team can make a deep run or which can grab a conference title, it's a perfect time to lock it in and add like that extra layer of excitement to every game down the stretch. It's going to be an interesting kind of scenario, especially out west with injuries and stuff. So now check it out. Maybe you win and you get yourself a trip to the NBA Finals on top of it. Visit FanDuel.com to get started. Use your profit boost on an NBA future to get entered for your chance to win a trip to the NBA Finals. When you sign up, they will ask you to set your limit, set your budget. Do that so you can gamble responsibly and play your game. At FanDuel, the official sports betting partner

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[John Corrales]

MBA well, and it's.

[Tom Westerholm]

And it's, it's fascinating too, right? Because it's like you, you think about that in terms of what he gets out of his players, and it's. I don't know, man. It's. It's interesting because, like, he got that out of you guys, right? And that was after, like, that was one, One game, you know, one interaction where he, he wanted something specific. He wanted information about you guys, and he got it because he, I mean, look for better, like, I'm sorry, like, again, I hate that we're just like this now. But he is pretty literally a genius, right? Like, he is a basketball genius. I'm like, I don't think that's. I don't think that's too over the top because for one thing, he's a basketball genius in the, you know, in the same way that, like, you know, I mean, well, to a greater degree, right, Than players are basketball geniuses. Like we would call players basketball geniuses. Joe is very obviously at that level and beyond, right? It's, it's very interesting to just think about the ways, you know, he got that from you guys in like what, an hour? However long you guys were out there, hour and a half. Just imagine what he. Yeah, I mean, he gets a training camp with these guys, he gets practices with these guys, he gets shoot arounds with these guys, he gets film with these guys. Like all this stuff, you know, his never ceasing basketball brain that just, that just goes and goes and goes and grinds and grinds and thinks and thinks and thinks. He gets to just like, you know, take that out on, like you said, 15 of the best basketball players in the entire world and they get to try to do something together. And I think that to me is one of the interesting things about Missoula. And one of the reasons why I think he is so special is because when we see that the product of him putting that non stop basketball brain and putting that to work along with 15 other players, they're just, they're just really good. Like we just said on the podcast that we finished up, there are no weaknesses on that team. And so much of that has to do with Missoula. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that his, that his, he's able to just like this whole thing is just this perfect little sandbox for him. This, this thing that he loves and is obsessed with, he's got the perfect sandbox for it.

[John Corrales]

He's. He's a genius because of two things. One, the preparation, the work. He's, he studies and processes and remembers and he studies soccer and baseball and all that stuff. And he can see the parallels. So that's. Number one, he prepares maniacally. Number two, I go back to the, the, the two things that he always says, nobody cares and it doesn't matter. This is where I think the smartest people can. If you can get to this place, you will unlock so much of your brain. Because I'm willing to bet this is just in life, 90% of the things that you think matters. I sound like Rick Sanchez. You know, all the things that you think matter don't matter. And it's so true. There are actually, when you think about it, so few things that matter that actually influence your life. But we put up these things. What other people think of us, what this person, you know, the, the stuff that I'm wearing, the stuff that people, you know, I've got to tweet this thing, I've got to respond to this thing. And it's like none of this matters. And actually nobody cares. And if you can get to that spot, then you get to the clarity of, well, what does actually matter? That's where Joe gets what he needs. That's where he connects with these guys. Because when you chip away at all the extraneous stuff, you've now eliminated hours and hours and hours of conversations and thoughts, intrusive thoughts, things that waste your time, things that distract you, things that make you procrastinate, because your brain is always processing, processing. It's like taking a computer and stripping all of the stuff that comes on to, just stripping it down to like, three programs that you need. You're like, man, this thing works really, really fast now because it was. It's not cluttered anymore. That's the. That is the genius of Joe Missoula. He gets to the heart of things. He gets to what matters with each individual player, and that's what you focus on. So when the rest of us are looking at Celtics, Lakers and saying, wow, how awesome was it that Pat Riley went up there and said, by the way, his reaction was amazing. And. But like, Joe doesn't go, rah, rah, hey, this is Celtics, Lakers, step up and, you know, make this a special one, because as he said after the game, we got to do this again against Phoenix. So if you make this Lakers thing, like, that's great, and it's an honor and a blessing to be part of this rivalry, but we treat it the same way as every other game because now you got to go to Phoenix and do the same thing. And if you treat. If you make this game more than the Phoenix game becomes less, and then you put yourself in a position to treat it as less, and now you start losing these games. That's why the Celtics keep winning. That's why the Celtics keep playing well on a back to back. You don't give them the excuse. You don't give them that thing. You just get to the heart of what matters. You focus on these important things, you do that job well, and you move on. That's why they are so good.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And I think that, you know, you see a lot of Lakers people on social media or whatever speaking of things that don't matter. Social media, but you see a lot of Lakers people on social media talking after the game about, like, man, the Celtics are just so disciplined. And I think that's a. I think that that is just right at the heart of what you're saying is like, that let. That concept of discipline, I think, can be really, like, misunderstood sometimes as like, no, you get up and you do the things that you don't want to do. And it's like, no, like, the thing about discipline is that you get up and do the things that you should do, like the things that matter, right? And you just do them over and over and over and over and over again. And that's the Celtics, right? They just over like, okay, we know that we need to be a good offensive rebounding team because maybe our defensive, like, again, like we just talked about, turns out they're just good at that, too, because they don't have any weaknesses. But at the start of the season, they weren't a good defensive rebounding team. So it's like, okay, that means that we have to crash the glass because then we can make up some of those margins, right? So, okay, we're going to crash. We're going to crash. We're going to get offensive rebounds. We're going to work at it. We're going to work at it. We're going to work at it. And they just. They did. They were. They were quite good at that. And they made up those margins. They did these things that. That Joe correctly identified that matter. And again, I mean, you know, again, like, culture, right? That's. That, that. That's what Joe has instilled there. That. That culture of. That. That level of discipline that isn't just get up and do the things you don't want to do. It's. No, it's. It's get up and do the things that matter and do them again and then do them again and then do them again, and look what happens. Because if you just keep doing the things that matter and end up as the number two seed without your best player in the lineup. So I don't know, man, he's. He's something. He's. He's quite good at this.

[John Corrales]

He's very good at this. It's. It's, you know, look, he's. He's been through a fair amount in life, and he himself has been in dark places. You know what I mean? And he had to come to grips with, you know, he got himself into trouble. Like, he, you know, his entire career, his entire life could have been derailed, you know, and you have to come out of that other. Come out of that on the other side and be like, why am. Why was I like that? Why did I do this? And you've gotta pay the price, turn around and be a better person. Just because, you know, just because you've made a mistake doesn't mean you can't pay for that mistake and come out of it and be Like, I understand why I did that. I'm correcting that. And I'm going to be a good. A good person, a better person. And that.

[Tom Westerholm]

Back to the therapy Celtics. I love it.

[John Corrales]

And that's it. That's it. But that's Joe. Joe is a therapy coach. Like, everything Joe talks about, that's therapy, man. And he does it in extreme way. It's very. Bro. Therapy in a way, but it's still therapy, man. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

You know that.

[John Corrales]

That's Joe Missoula, the brotherapy coach. Love it.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's.

[John Corrales]

That's the best way to put it.

[Tom Westerholm]

Right? Yep. Yep. Whereas IME Udoka sends you to therapy by belittling you.

[John Corrales]

Right, Right. That's. And that's the thing. That's where you. That's a good way to put it. Like, ime, IME isn't like, he. He worries about some of those things, that he's just a very. IME is the old school guy. Like, he's. Joe is the new school. The new school version, the remake of the same attitude. It's the same elements. It's just. It's. It's IME with therapy.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's it, man.

[John Corrales]

Like, it really is ZMA with therapy.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Corrales]

We should have had better help on this sponsor.

[Tom Westerholm]

Go to therapy, guys.

[John Corrales]

Seriously. Go to therapy. That's it. Therapy helps therapists.

[Tom Westerholm]

It does. There's two guys right here who can. Who can attest to how much can tell you that therapy helps.

[John Corrales]

Oh, my God. Absolutely. All right. Good place to end it, man. This is good stuff. This was a. This was good. I'm glad we did this one, Tom. Appreciate you, man.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate you.

[John Corrales]

That was. That was a good conversation. I like. What is it about the bonus podcast? We just play looser, but that was good. We were going to talk about that in the main podcast. I said, well, let's. Let's break this out. And I'm glad we did, because that was. That was good. All right. I hope you enjoyed that. The podcast. These bonus podcasts are not normally full podcasts, or there's not. So I want to keep them to like, 15, 20 minutes or so. This is a little bit of a something extra, but, hey, sometimes you just get to talking, and as you can tell right now, my mouth will not stop moving until I tell it to stop. I just keep on going and going and nobody, nobody cares. This doesn't matter. So I'm going to wrap it up and say thank you for being here for this bonus podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being an everydayer joining me Monday through Friday. These bonus podcasts can happen anytime during the week. Plus Friday night, Saturday night when they play like they do Friday against Brooklyn, they'll be a there will be a post game podcast there as well. So subscribe and share the podcast. Please tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here in the Lockdown Podcast Network. It is your team every day.

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[John Corrales]

Uh, yeah.

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[John Corrales]

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