Boston Celtics Trade Deadline: Possibilities, Waiting to deal, and Brad Stevens curveballs

Summary

Locked On Celtics – Boston Celtics Trade Deadline: Possibilities, Waiting to Deal, and Brad Stevens Curveballs
Episode date: January 23, 2026
Host: John Karalis (with guest Tom Westerholm)

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the upcoming NBA trade deadline and its implications for the Boston Celtics. John Karalis and Tom Westerholm analyze what options are available, what Brad Stevens might have up his sleeve, and how any moves will reflect the front office’s confidence in the current roster. They also discuss the impact of new CBA rules, the trade value of key players, and why waiting to deal might make the most sense this season.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trade Deadline: What Can vs. What Should Happen

• With two weeks until the trade deadline, the hosts debate possible moves and emphasize that Brad Stevens is the unpredictable "wild card" in the process:

  "Whenever we assume something with Brad Stevens, that’s like, no, that’s not what he’s gonna do." – John Corrales (05:09)

• The commonly-discussed trade chip is Anthony (presumably Anfernee) Simons’ expiring contract, but the hosts stress that Boston’s possible moves aren’t limited to him.

2. Other Trade Chips Beyond Simons

• Sam Hauser stands out as another intriguing asset, particularly for teams needing shooting:

  "If a team traded for Sam Hauser, that’s getting like a big press push... he just shoots you to a win." – Tom Westerholm (07:43, 08:23)

• Hauser’s value peaks in his dominant stretches, but inconsistency raises concerns for playoff reliability.
• Derrick White is also discussed. While it's unlikely Boston moves him, his salary could make deals possible.

3. The Brad Stevens Curveball Factor

• Brad Stevens’ history of unpredictable deals makes reading Boston’s intentions difficult.

  "Brad works in mysterious ways." – Tom Westerholm (12:48) "I don’t know what Brad’s cooking." – John Corrales (12:54)

• The ultimate "pump fake" move would be making no substantial trade at all just to keep everyone guessing.

4. New CBA & Second Apron Challenges

• The new CBA’s financial rules severely complicate trades between contending teams.

  "They don’t want good teams trading with each other anymore... expensive players have to trade with bad teams." – John Corrales (16:25)

• Aggregation of salaries and hard cap implications make bringing in players like Daniel Gafford or Ivica Zubac highly complex—even with third teams and extra draft assets.

5. Asset Management and Timing

• The Celtics are positioned with "one more big move" around the Tatum/Brown core, and timing that move is crucial:

  "With Tatum and Brown as the centerpiece, [the Celtics] have one more move." – John Corrales (20:40) "I think [Derrick White] is a big part of this, but the cupboards are starting to get bare move." – John Corrales (21:58)

• Derrick White is likened to Milwaukee’s Chris Middleton—a vital last-resort asset.

6. To Trade Now or Wait Until the Summer?

• Given the East’s fluid standings and internal uncertainties, waiting may bring clearer answers regarding team needs, Jason Tatum’s return, and the future of Anthony Simons:

  "There’s value... in waiting to see what you need after Tatum comes back." – (Paraphrased, 23:46)

• The possibility that Tatum or Simons’ fit changes is discussed, and the potential for Simons to leave as a free agent must inform the deadline strategy.

7. The Broader NBA Landscape

• The impact of other teams, especially potential changes involving players like Giannis Antetokounmpo or Ja Morant, and advances by teams like OKC or San Antonio, looms large over risk assessment.

  "If you’re going to push all your chips in, it’s got to be to the point you can actually win it all." – Tom Westerholm (31:03)

• There is awareness that future offseason opportunities (or threats) could dictate the best timing for Boston’s "all-in" move.

8. The Unknowns: Monitoring Tatum & Simons

• The health and playoff readiness of Jason Tatum is the single biggest X-factor:

  "Whether to do it now or later is Jason Tatum, because you don’t push in now without it being Jason Tatum coming back." – John Corrales (32:55)

• Boston must also gauge Simons’ willingness to re-sign at a reasonable price after this year, as the restricted CBA market could impact his value and options.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Brad Stevens unpredictability:
  • "I just don’t know what Brad’s cooking." – John Corrales (12:54)
  • "The ultimate pump fake would be to do nothing." – Tom Westerholm (13:06)
• On Sam Hauser’s value:
  • "There are games where he just shoots you to a win... that's why his 3-point percentage is so high at season’s end." – Tom Westerholm (08:22)
• On asset management:
  • "With Tatum and Brown... you have one more move—one more arrow in the quiver. You gotta make sure to use it the right way." – John Corrales (21:04)
• Trade landscape complexities:
  • "It’s impossible to just play with the trade machine now. You have to have, like, an advanced degree." – John Corrales (15:05)
• Team’s mentality reflection:
  • "What they do will tell us how they feel about this team." – John Corrales (01:46)

---

Important Timestamps

• 05:09 – Brad Stevens unpredictability and the assumption of Simons as the main trade chip
• 06:53–10:05 – In-depth discussion of Sam Hauser’s trade value
• 12:48 – Stevens’ mysterious approach, setting the tone for deadline speculation
• 15:05–17:00 – CBA rules and how they complicate salary aggregation and trades
• 20:40–22:44 – The "one more move" era, Derrick White’s status, and asset prioritization
• 23:46–24:11 – Importance of seeing Tatum and the current roster together before making major moves
• 27:36–31:03 – Changing Eastern Conference dynamics and whether now is the time to push in
• 32:55–34:52 – Framing the entire deadline decision around Jason Tatum’s health, role, and timing
• 35:38–39:16 – Possibilities with Simons, risk of waiting/not acting, and need for more “answers” before acting aggressively

---

Summary for New Listeners

This episode provides a smart, nuanced look at the Celtics’ options and challenges as the trade deadline looms. The hosts focus on:

• The unpredictability of Brad Stevens’ approach
• Why Boston could make a move—but also why standing pat and reassessing in the summer might make sense
• How the NBA’s new financial rules make even simple trades a massive headache
• The necessity of building around Tatum and Brown—and the danger of mistiming the team’s "one last big move"
• How the team’s output, injuries, and locker-room dynamics since the start of the season complicate decision-making

Listeners will walk away with a strong sense of what’s possible, what’s realistic, and why patience could be the most strategic play in a volatile market—despite Celtics fans’ hunger for another bold move.

---

Tone & Language:
The podcast maintains a conversational, analytical style, full of Celtics-specific insight, humor, and a bit of anxious anticipation about what Brad Stevens may or may not do as the deadline approaches.

Transcript

[John Corrales]

It's the Locked On Podcast network your team every day.

[Podcast Advertiser]

So everyone's deploying AI agents now, right? They're automating tasks, handling workflows, and making decisions. But here's the thing. Sometimes they mess up. They delete the wrong files, make changes you didn't authorize or just go off script. And when that happens, you're stuck trying to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it. Unless you're using Rubrik Agent Cloud. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that allows you to monitor, govern and rewind AI agents. One platform to help you unleash more agents faster without the risk it's running in the background the whole time, watching what's happening, making sure things stay on track. You get full visibility. You can set guardrails so agents don't go rogue. And if something breaks, you just roll it back like Undo, but for AI. And the rewind happens fast. We're talking minutes, not hours or days. Rubrik Agent Cloud gives you that safety net when you're experimenting with AI, so one mistake doesn't tank your whole operation. Companies like hospitals and banks are using Rubrik Agent Cloud because they can't afford to have AI agents making mistakes with sensitive data. It's the only way to get real control without slowing down innovation. If your business relies on AI agents, you need the ability to monitor, govern and rewind their actions. Right now, my listeners get exclusive early access to Rubrik Agent cloud. Head to rubrik.com that's R U B R I K.com rubrik.com Everyone deserves to be connected.

[John Corrales]

That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the.

[Tom Westerholm]

Cost of optional benefits. Plan features in Texas and fees vary.

[John Corrales]

Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits.

[Tom Westerholm]

Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.

[John Corrales]

Now on the Lockdown Celtics podcast, what the Celtics should do with the trade deadline and why. What they do with will tell us everything about how they feel about this team. Welcome back to the Lockdown Celtics podcast. Right here on the Lockdown podcast network. Where does your team every day your team is the Boston Celtics and I talk about them Monday through Friday plus bonus podcasts. They play Friday and Saturday, Brooklyn and in Chicago. So bonus podcast after those two games would be very interesting games. So make sure you're subscribed wherever. Get your podcast, watch the show. It's on YouTube. And join me for the show. I am John Corrales. If you're new to the show, I'm a beat writer covering the Celtics for Sports Illustrated. The Celtics on SI page. I've been covering the team for about 20 years. I've been doing this podcast for 10, and I've written a couple of books about the team. Today's show is brought to you by Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use the code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Today's show is about the trade deadline, which, as we're recording, this, is literally two weeks away. Two weeks from now, in the early evening of the 5th, we will be either dissecting the Celtics trades or wondering why they didn't do anything. So we'll just lead into that. Later on, we'll get into how this impacts what the Celtics like. What they do will tell us how they feel. But let's kind of look at what they have and what they should do and. And let's do it with Tom Westerholm, everybody.

[Tom Westerholm]

What's up?

[John Corrales]

Tom Westerholm, everybody.

[Tom Westerholm]

Much better. Well, a little short. Little short. Sheesh. Disrespectful.

[John Corrales]

That's me. I'm very disrespectful. Like, nowadays to many, many people are saying that I am disrespectful.

[Tom Westerholm]

Known to be disrespectful.

[John Corrales]

Known disrespector. John Corral says I should put that on my thing at the bottom. Okay, so Tom. Tom was her home. Find his [e-mail]. how are you?

[Tom Westerholm]

I'm good. I'm good. Buried under, you know, feet of snow, Freezing.

[John Corrales]

A lot of snow. A lot of cold. Detroit was cold. My buddy, my friend. It was.

[Tom Westerholm]

That was a Midwest is different, man. It's. It is a different kind of cold out here.

[John Corrales]

I've never had to scrape ice off of my hotel window. So the trade deadline is in two weeks away, and the Celtics there. We've talked about this a little bit on a few different podcasts now, but it's like, what can they do versus what should they do? What will they do? So many different conversations here. We always talk about Anthony Simons as a trade chip, the trade chip. And everybody just assumes that that's the case. And it hit me today, I was like, wait a second. Whenever we assume something with Brad Stevens, that's like, no, that's not what he's gonna do. And it makes me wonder A little bit about some of the other players, some of the other moves that could be made. And when he, like I just did a whole thing for the Celtics on si, a big draft primer. So if you want to go to the Celtics SI page, big, like huge primer book market, go back to it, all that stuff. The Celtics have more assets than Anthony Simons. They could easily, if they wanted to pivot to Derrick White. No, they probably shouldn't, but they would. They could. They could. They could. Damn Sam Houser.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, according to somebody on this podcast, they might as well. Because we all know that Hugo Gonzalez is going to be better than Derrick White.

[John Corrales]

So eventually, eventually. But let's give him a couple of times. Let's let Derek Eric's contract is up. But, you know, hey, if that's how it goes and that's how it goes, and if we start. Start the Hugo era a little early, so be it. No, no, I don't, I don't think Derrick White's gonna go. But no, I'm also like, okay, they make about the same amount of money and Simons is younger. And I'm just like saying, like, I'm not saying that Derrick White is going to go or they should go or they're even considering or anything like that. I do not want Derrick White gone. I'm just saying, like, I'm looking at. I'm starting to get gun shy is what I am like starting to get nervous. Like I'm, I'm seeing ghosts. And it's because Brad Stevens always makes these weird, like, wait a second, is it going to be. Maybe it's not Simons. Simon's playing. Well, maybe it's Sam Houser. Maybe it's Payton Pritchard. Maybe it's like, so I don't know. I. Looking across the landscape, obviously Simons feels like the most likely to go expiring contract and all that, but it's not the only thing Brad can do.

[Tom Westerholm]

It's not. I mean, I, I think that one of the most interesting. And I know we didn't want to necessarily get into like target names, but I think one of the most interesting names of guys.

[Podcast Advertiser]

You.

[Tom Westerholm]

You mentioned him a minute ago. I think Sam Houser is a really interesting guy at this deadline because I think so obviously the contract is not Anthony Simons's contract. And I think that's one of the biggest reasons why Simon keeps getting brought up. Right? It's like, this is a valuable player who you could, you could potentially get some. There is like a level of sense to be made in terms of he has a. He, he is a good player who has a big contract. So you could potentially get a probably slightly less good player, but who has a more friendly contract, which would then help you, you know, in terms of aprons and all that other stuff. Right. I think Hauser's interesting for a couple of reasons. One, I, I think, you know, he's well established. People know who he is. People like, if a team traded for Sam Houser, that, that's getting like us a big press push, you know what I mean? Like, if, like whatever team acquired Sam Houser, you know, is really going to like, he's getting, you know, he's getting like a jersey hold up kind of press conference. You know, he's getting like, that's a big deal for a team if they go get Sam Houser. And so I think there's, there's value there. And I think from the Celtics perspective, the thing about Sam Houser is that there are going to be stretches of the season. We've talked about this before. There are going to be stretches of the season where he just like shoots you, like just these games where he just shoots you to a win. And, and it's like, holy cow. Sam Houser turned what might have been a close game down the stretch into a 28 point blowout because he just went crazy. And he does that pretty often. And that's really, in a lot of cases, that's a, that's a big part of the reason why his 3 point percentage is like 44% at the end of a season. It's not because he's consistently hitting 44% of his threes all year. It's because he's got these really crazy hot stretches. And if you're a team that's looking into the playoffs and it's like, hey, I, I want to try to win a title. It's a little hard to always rely on that. Now, I will say that Joe Missoula has been talking up Hauser's defense a lot, which again, kind of go either way. He's been talking him up like he's one of the best defenders on the Celtics. And I don't know if I agree, but there could be a lot of reasons for that. He could just be trying to pump him up a little bit as like, oh, I'm like excited about his defense or, you know, pump up his trade value. I don't know. But I think Hauser to me is, is the other really interesting guy of, you know, I mean, obviously there's the other. There's all the wings, right? There's, you know, your Ugo, like Baylor, like all these guys who have played pretty well this season, but I don't think any of those guys have like, crazy high trade value. So to me, it's like, I think that Hauser is this kind of middle ground of like, if you want to look at somebody else besides Simons, because I think Simons that those sliders make. But if there's another guy. Hauser is a, is a Wing and I don't. He's. He's a fine defender and he can, and he can shoot the heck out of the ball a lot of the time, but not all the time. And sometimes that not all the time is a little, little damaging.

[John Corrales]

And that, that I think has been like, my, my main criticism of Hauser this year is that like when he's, when he's going like this January, oh my God, just amazing, Just amazing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Also some other stuff in his bag now, which is like, okay, okay, Sam.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, that move on Siakam, the spin step into a midi. Like I said on the podcast last night, like, Gary Washburn turned to me and Jay and was like, that might be the best move I've ever seen Sam Houser make. And he's not wrong like, that he's capable of a lot. Like, so again, you know what? I'm perfectly happy going into the playoffs this year, into the summer, next year, making like, having made no move and you know, figure out in the summer and like, we'll see. We'll see. But if that's how it goes, they still have ways to maneuver and acquire a player and, and improve around Jason Tatum without, without having to say, like, I. If you want to keep Sam Houser, like, I, I'm not. There's not even a rumor out there about Sam Houser. I'm just saying, like, hey, you know, Sam, Sam makes $10 million. And if you're looking at day Ron Sharp, let's say, and he's making six, six and a quarter million dollars, well, Sam makes 10. And so if the in the Brooklyn Nets are 23rd, 24th and three point shooting percentage, they've got a couple of bigs. You're like, maybe you just say, hey, well, we'll just kind of like flip another one of our bigs into a shooter and that's. Now you make your other bigs better. You get Claxton more room. You know what I mean? You get, you get guys more room to operate. Because when Sam Houser's on there. Like, that helps them. But for the Celtics, you're like, you're not going to be that good that quick. There's. There's something to be said there. And. Okay, so now Anthony Simons takes over the, you know, some of the Sam Hower role and Jason Tatum comes back and he's, you know, gonna be scoring and shooting and all that. So there's something there. Like, there's something there when all of this is just to say, don't just think that Anthony Simons is. Is the middle of all of every discussion. It's not just Anthony Simons. Other guys on this roster could be packaged, could be part of a deal to get the Celtics what they are looking for. So just, just putting that out there because I, I just think it. Everything's been Anthony Simon's end of story. And I don't think that is necessarily where we are.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I think the big thing is just Brad works in mysterious ways. So, like, that's, you know, I can't.

[John Corrales]

Tell you how overarching that that thought is. In all of my conversations at TD Garden, people were like, I don't know what Brad's cooking. I just don't know what Brad's cooking. And we'll, you know, we'll have to wait and see if it's anything.

[Tom Westerholm]

The ultimate pump fake would be to do nothing. And I, I like, that would be hilarious. I hope Brad does nothing. Just to really keep all you guys on your toes.

[John Corrales]

That's possible. Well, you know what? Let's talk about why that's possible.

[Tom Westerholm]

Let's do it.

[John Corrales]

When we come back, today's show is brought to you by Game time. You gotta download that Game time app because there is nothing like being in the building for a game, especially as you get closer to the playoffs. In the playoffs, you know, when the team makes runs, when Sam Houser is going, you know, crazy and hitting like two, three shots in a row. Jaylen Brown, it's just so electric. The game time app is a very straightforward, intuitive app that helps you find these tickets fast. Simple, without the guesswork, because, number one, you can see the view from your seat. So you want to see what you're going to see. You open up the app, you tap the button, you tap a couple of clicks, and you're like, okay, this is the view. I'm gonna get. The price, you see is what you're gonna pay. There's no surprise fees at checkout. And if you're not sure, you can go into the zone deals and Unlock great seats for an even better value. I've used it before many times. So this is an app that's on my phone that I use plenty. So check it out. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code. LOCKDOWN NBA. You'll get $20 off your first purchase. I don't get it because I've already made purchases, but you can. $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Create an account and redeem the code. LockedOn MBA L O C K E D locked on MBA for $20 off.

[Jake (Lockdown Celtics Promo)]

This is Jake from Lock Dawn. When the game's on the line, the best know when to pass because the right assist can change everything. And off the court, it's no different. That's where your State Farm agent comes in. Whether it's protecting your car, your home, or helping you prep for the unexpected, they'll you up with a game plan that works for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state.

[John Corrales]

Thank you for making lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. For making it the number one Boston Celtics podcast in the world on the number one sports podcasting network in the in the world on the planet. Whatever. Some it's number one. So whatever you want to listen to, you got locked on fantasy basketball, lockdown, NBA, whatever other team you want to. So lockdown nets to check that out to see. So that's what makes lockdown number one. We have everything covered all across. So go check out whatever the opponent is, whatever the big stories are, we've got it all covered. Okay, let's get back to the discussion here with Tom. The thing about this trade deadline and the second apron era trades is it's impossible to get like you want to play with the trade machine. You have to have like an advanced degree to play with the trade machine. Because I was doing it for my piece just to kind of see where things would go. It's like, all right, let me plug in Daniel Gafford. He makes fourteen and a half million dollars. Okay, well, how do you get there? By aggregating certain players. You put one team over the first apron and you can't do that by doing it a different way. You put the other team over the first apron and, and you can't do that. They're. They get hard capped over. So just Getting Daniel Gafford 14 and a half million dollars becomes difficult and requires multiple teams. And that's the one thing that I think Drives me crazy. The most about the collective bargaining agreement is it's just. They don't want good teams trading with each other anymore. Like, good teams can't trade with another good team. Good teams, expensive teams, or teams with expensive players have to trade with bad teams. Like, trade Robin.

[Tom Westerholm]

Crappy teams.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, yeah. Like, right? But you go, it's like Trey Young, who was paid like a superstar, goes to Washington. Like, that's. That's exactly what the CBA was designed to do. If you have an expensive player that you're like, okay, I'm done with this guy. Like Jaren Jackson Jr. Although he's on a bad team, but he's paid like a superstar, he can't go to a good team. The system is not designed to send him to a good team. It's too cost prohibitive. He came to Boston. The Celtics with their top four would be 20, $30 million over the salary cap. Already $20 million away from the second apron with four guys. That's not possible. That's the thing that. That Brad faces the most, is if you want to get the guy even like Zubac, that's not easy to do. You can involve three teams, four teams, and every time you add another team, they have their own set of demands, and it just makes everything so impossible. So, honestly, Tom, I would not be surprised if Brad didn't do anything.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I agree. I. And I don't know how long we want to wait to talk about what that would mean necessarily. But I. I think you're right on the money. And I think, you know, the Celtics do have some. So the thing is, the Celtics do have some assets, right? They have, like, some ways to. To make some things work. So I. I think that, you know, when you talk about your gaffords, your Zubaches, I. I think. No, I. I think it's not to say that the Celtics aren't going to make a deal like that. I think it's. It's definitely possible that they could. And especially, you know. You know, especially, like, maybe, like, maybe all of this. Maybe all of this great Anthony Simon stuff is music to Brad's ears, because he's been thinking about trading him this entire time and has just been biding his time, and it's like, hey, great timing, Anthony. We appreciate you. Like, yeah, it's possible, but I think so. I think the assets matter, obviously, because that. That just. It does open up other possibilities. Like, there if you need to get a third team involved and that. And that third team. And is. Is demanding Draft compensation. And. And this is just a deal that you absolutely, like, you just have to have Zubots.

[John Corrales]

You've.

[Tom Westerholm]

You've done the evaluations and you're like, listen, like all. He's gonna plug up all these holes. Having Neemi on the second unit is going to make such a huge difference against, you know, Team X, Y and Z. You know, we think that this trade could put us over the top against a Western Conference opponent, because I think that's got to be a consideration here, which I know we can get into. It's. It's got to be a consideration that, like, okay, yeah, the east is wide open, but if you come up against okc, they're just going to sweep you. Then why did you make all these moves? That's not you. You have to make yourself an actual contender if you're going to make some of these really expensive moves. I think if. If you. If you have done all that math and you think that the guy you're going to get is going to do that, you can get the deal done. Like, you do have the draft capital to potentially get that done. I think so. I mean, I think the assets are there if you want to make the deal. I think the assets are there. And. And you can do it. But to your point, like, you really start. You do start to really strip the cupboards bare if you do. And I think that's the biggest reason why it makes. It makes a lot of sense for us to get past the trade deadline and see nothing happen. Because, like, how certain can you be about what you need at this current juncture? Wouldn't you be a lot more certain in the summer? Once you've seen a little, what we're guessing, once you've seen a little bit of Jason Tatum and, you know, okay, here's where he's at. Here's where he's gonna be at come October. Like, once you've seen that, you could probably make a more educated. Educated move.

[John Corrales]

I would think that that's where I land on all of this, too, because you. I think the Celtics, with Tatum and Brown as the centerpiece, have one more move.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

Like, they. Yeah, they. You know what I mean?

[Tom Westerholm]

Like, dude, I know exactly what you mean.

[John Corrales]

Trade Simon. So you've got. You've got one more. Like, all right, you know, one more bullet in the gun, so to speak. Like, this is it. You've got your. It's the zombie apocalypse. You're there. You've got one more. One more arrow in the quiver. You. You got to make sure. You use it the right way.

[Tom Westerholm]

No, you know what? You have two. You have two because you have the Simons, and that's a big one. And then I think, I think you also have the Derrick White one if you need to push it. Right? Because it's like you have this era of these two guys who, like, if they win another title, they're probably getting, like, they're, I mean, their jerseys are already retired. If they win another title, we're talking about, like, statue territory, right? So you got these two guys and you, I think at some point you got, you're gonna have to push all the buttons that you can with these two guys. So I think anybody on the roster eventually, but for the immediate future. Yeah, yeah. You got the silence button, so.

[John Corrales]

Right. Okay. So one or two. But like, I, I, I still think, like, I still think, like, Derek is a, is a big part of this. I think it's to, to kind of like, build on your point. I think it's one more move to say, okay, legitimate contender. And then the Derrick White thing would be what Milwaukee has done with Giannis. Exactly. You know what I mean? The. All right, we're, we don't really want to move these guys. They're starting to get a little. We're starting to not be. We, we got the Derrick White thing that somebody might, you know, go for. Like, that's going to be the one where. But you're the, the cupboards are this, that's. The cupboards are starting to get Bear move.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's the, that Derrick White is Chris Middleton.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of like that's, that's the thing. It's like that, right? So you have options. You can shoot that. The, the Simons or whatever, the trade.

[Tom Westerholm]

It, like, it doesn't have to be.

[John Corrales]

Simons, like I said, but whatever that one move is to say, it's Jason, it's Jalen, it's this new player, and either it's this new player, Daron Sharp, and we're keeping Simons, and that's going to be that, that's going to be it. This is either going to win us a championship or, or, or you say, hey, we're going to take it into the summer. We're going to see maybe, maybe Simons. I don't know, maybe Simons doesn't work with Jason Tatum all of a sudden. I'm not saying, like, it would be surprising, but I don't know, maybe it doesn't work. Maybe, maybe I think it'd be a.

[Tom Westerholm]

Surprise to Jason Tatum, he seems to like Simons quite a bit from everything. I think so, too.

[John Corrales]

Right. Like, but, you know, let's, let's take it. Let's get this month or two or whatever with Jason on the floor. Also an important reason to get Jason on the floor. Like, let's see, let's see it with this group, with this style, with, with the new and improved Jalen Brown. Like, let's kind of see, like they, I have all the confidence in the world that they're going to have to figure it out, but there is going to be some level of figuring it out.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like that.

[John Corrales]

Just part of it. It's part, it's a new team, new teammates, new. Every year is a new year. Everybody has a little bit of a different kind of like mentality. It's. And it's fine. So there's value to that. But what they do will tell us how they think. We'll talk about that when we wrap up the show next. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. Every Friday night. This is the Friday show. So if you're listening on Friday, tonight, 6 o', clock, open up that FanDuel app and you'll see it's NBA happy hour from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern. Make sure it's Eastern time. NBA Happy hour will get you something new, a boost, a bonus, a surprise you never knew. You never know what you're gonna get at the NBA Happy Hour FanDuel kind of extravaganza. It's your official pre game. It's a limited time window where special offers drop inside the FanDuel app. So check it out. You get weekly specials. Timing is great right before the games, right before the weekend starts, so it gives you a little extra energy. So before tip off, check the FanDuel app and see what's going on at NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern. When you sign on, it'll ask you to set your limit, set your budget. It's happy hour. You can only afford to spend a little bit on your whatever it is. So that's it. Whatever your budget is, whatever you would spend on a night out with your friends or your family or your wife, if that's your disposable income and that's what you want to set it at, then go for it. That's it. And if you hit that limit, then you're cut off. That's what happens at happy hour sometimes. Hopefully not. But we're all going to try to gamble responsibly. It's a little basketball, it's a little action, and it's a whole lot of Friday energy at NBA Happy hour on FanDuel, the official sportsbook partner of the NBA. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the.

[Tom Westerholm]

Cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary.

[John Corrales]

Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits.

[Tom Westerholm]

Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.

[John Corrales]

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. You are an everydayer with me Monday through Friday. How about joining the Everydayer club? Join me for free audio, whatever your podcasting app is of choice. All major podcasting apps you can get free audio. You can get access to our Discord server. You get merchandise drops. You get all kinds of stuff at the Everydayer club. Locked on celtics.supercast.com Locked on Celtics Supercast 5 bucks a month. Or if you want to pay up front, 50 bucks for the year. You get two months free@lockdown celtics.supercast.com so Tom, we've been talking about all this. It the east has kind of changed the dynamic here a little bit because coming into the season, the expectation, my expectation was the Celtics would be kind of like in that five, six, oh my God, are they going to be in the play in kind of situation. And they're not. And no bigger swing and a miss.

[Tom Westerholm]

By both of us.

[John Corrales]

But part of that, part of that is like, oh, the guys are playing better. Right? I didn't expect Nene to be this good. He has been. That's great. He has helped them a lot. I didn't expect Jalen to be a first team o NBA guy, but he has been. That's great. That's amazing. All of these surprises. Okay, fine. At the same time, the Knicks should be better. The Cavs should be better. Orlando should probably be better. There should be more competition here. And it's look at they're five and a half games out of first. They are three games in the lost column out of seventh. So it's, it's not like the Celtics are the second seed. A losing streak and a couple of things going the other way could drop them and they could be right, right where we kind of expect preseason, you know what I mean? Like, it's not like it's not over yet. And I'm not, I'm not sitting here rooting for, like, hey, I still have a chance to be right. No, I want to be wrong. I want to be wrong. But the reason I am framing it like this is, does Brad Stevens think, okay, look, we get, we get that one rebounder, Pistons, all of a sudden, if you get one guy to just keep Jalen Duran off those damn boards two or three times, let's just get two or three of those put backs, knock those out. Hey, you win that game in Detroit, right? You keep Jalen Duran off the boards, you. Maybe they're two and two against the Pistons. Maybe they're three and one against the Pistons. Maybe the Celtics are a little closer to first. Maybe they're in first. So does Brad Stevens say, you know what? I am going to shoot that shot right now. I am going to shoot that shot right now and let everybody know, this is it. Jason's coming back. This is it. We're going for it now. And, like, whatever we get is going to be this year, push next year, push all of that stuff.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think probably not, but we'll see. I think, But I think what we are. But I think, I think it's fascinating either way because I, part of the issue to me is, okay, who's the honest gonna go to, right? Like, where, where, like, is he gonna stay, right? What, what happens with Giannis? Like, that's a big thing, right?

[John Corrales]

Huge thing.

[Tom Westerholm]

Huge thing. If he ends up on, on some team that like, like, if you don't go for it this year, and then he, you know, something coalesces and, you know, he ends up on a team and, and, and it's a team that, you know, the Knicks or whatever it is, and it really hurts you to see him on that, that rival, and really makes you concerned then you might regret not going for it this year again, though, I, I, I keep coming back to what I said earlier, where it's like, if you're going to go for it this year, I think you have to go for it to the degree that you could win the title. And what we've seen from some of these teams is like, you know, Wemby comes into Boston, has a mediocre game and, and was still so unbelievably impactful every time he stepped on the floor, right? And that's kind of what you're dealing with out west, is that that's not the number one seed out there. You know, that's like, that's A. That is a team on the rise who, like, if I were picking the Finals, that's not the team I would pick to make the Finals, you know?

[John Corrales]

Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

So, like, I think. And I'm not saying you have to, like, 2024 was a exceptional year. You had a Celtics team that, like, I mean, for whatever reason, a bunch of people picks the Mavericks. I will never. To the day I die, I will never understand how people picked the Mavericks in that series because the Celtics were so clearly the best team in that series, and I think so clearly the best team in the NBA, right? Especially that series, but also I think pretty clearly the best team in the NBA. It is hard to put together that kind of team. I wouldn't expect the Celtics to be able to put that type of team together again, especially under the second apron. But I think you at least have to have. Have a team where it's like, you need to have a team where the matchup issues aren't necessarily, like, glaring against the best teams in the West. And I. I think you, like, you really have to be thinking about that. This isn't 2022 anymore, where it's just like, oh, man, we made it to the Finals. And it was. It was. We got so close. We pushed him to six. You know, crazy. Like, it's not that anymore. Like, now you have the veterans, superstars, and you've got to put a team around them to where. When you. When. If they get to the Finals, like, you actually have something to play for. You actually have a shot to win it if you're going to push all your chips in right now. So I'm like, like I said, if. If the Celtics do push all their chips in, it's going to be fascinating. I'm all for it just because of, like, oh, man. Like, this gets really interesting at that point. But I. I just. It. It's a huge commitment if you do that right now to, you know, to. To this season and next. It's a huge bet on. It's a massive bet on Jason Tatum's health. It's a mat on, you know, Jason Tatum's ability to continue defying all the. All the health odds and all that. It's a. It's a. It's a big commitment if you do it now.

[John Corrales]

This, I think. And here we are 30 minutes into it, and this. The heart of it all, might be the most important part of all of this, whether to do it now or later is Jason Tatum, because you don't. You don't push in now without it being Jason Tatum coming back, and we expect him to come back and we expect him to be himself. You don't sit there and say, we're going to, we're going to trade, we're going to make this deal, we're going for it. This is the team. We're making this push and we still don't know what Jason's going to do. Well, you need Jason Tatum. The whole point of this is that Jason's coming back and he's, he's going to provide. Even if he's on a minutes restriction and he gives you 25 minutes a game and that's the most he can play in the playoffs, that's still 25 minutes of Jason Tatum. And that. If you think he's going to be Jason Tatum, then, okay, then I can see it a little bit more. I don't want to put that on Tatum right now. Like, this is. I've described this, this season as a capsule episode for the Celtics, which means, however, this season ends and it doesn't, it does not enter the canon. It does not enter like that. It's fine. Whatever they do is fine. So there's a part of me that's like, you know what? Let Jalen Cook. Let's see what they can do. Let's see what they can do on their own. Let's see what, what Anthony can do. Let's put, hey, let's put Anthony Simons in a playoff situation and let's see what he can do. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that. Let's. He hasn't been in that for an NBA team. Let's. What if, what if he, like, soils himself in the playoffs? Again, not expected. But like you, there's always these possibilities people don't want to hear, like that might, that might happen. There's. Even if there's a 2% chance that it happened, you never know. You never know until you get there and see it.

[Tom Westerholm]

And I also think it goes the other way too. Like, because, I mean, I think it was the Clippers game, but there was, there was a. I think it was the Clippers game. There was a game recently where the Celtics were playing against one of the best, one of the best, one of the really good Western Conference teams. And the Clippers were really good at the time, obviously, and the Celtics were playing against one of the really good Western Conference teams and only the top guy. Like, it was very clear that this was not going to be an Ugo Gonzalez game. You know, I was like, this is not a game this is a game for the adults, and Anthony Simons played quite well as one of the adults. And I think that's also a possibility that he just comes out and you're like, okay, this. This is a. This is a grown man NBA player who can come out and get buckets on a stage because he's been around the NBA for a while. That also could happen and matters.

[John Corrales]

The flip side of what I laid out is, what if he's a superstar in the playoffs?

[Tom Westerholm]

What if he's like, good or just good, you know?

[John Corrales]

Right. Like, there's all of that stuff there, all of these things. Why not see? Why not see? And like, yeah, okay, there. I think one of the other things the Celtics need to do is get a sense from Anthony and his agent, hey, if. If we were to say we want you to stick around and offer you mid level money, are you. Are you gonna take it or not? Like, obviously you have to go out there and canvas and. But. But there's not a lot of teams with cap space. There's not a lot of money to be thrown around at free agents. I think Simons is one of the guys that kind of gets screwed by the CBA because no one's going to want to pay him $30 million. But if his. If his actual value was somewhere around 20, they're like, well, we're not going.

[Tom Westerholm]

To give you 20.

[John Corrales]

We're going to give you the 15, the mid level money, because now you're tradable and now you fit into an exception and blah, blah, blah. The Celtics need to figure out not just Jason Tatum, but does Simons. Is Simons open to sticking around at whatever number that they are comfortable paying? And if not, hey, look, all right, fine. We will trade you. We'll do what we can do. But you got to get something for him because he is a. He's clearly valuable. Yeah. And then that changes your approach at the deadline. Maybe that changes. Maybe you're like, we gotta move him for something and then you pull a trade. Right. So there are other factors here too. That. That plant is. The Celtics need to know if he is willing to come back. If he is, then let's see. Let's see him play with Tatum. Let's see if Tatum. We don't even know. Like, we're assuming a lot. We're assuming that Jason Tatum is going to come back and be his 100% absolute self, which I think I expect as well. But also, what if he's not? It's an Achilles injury. Like, what if what if he is like, what if something's a little off and so now you have to figure out. He has to spend time figuring out who he is. I. This is like, I'm. I'm firmly into the what if and throwing every what if out there, but because you don't know these things, because there is some level of. Well, you know, maybe. Maybe there is something there that you just. You just want to button up. Doing nothing now or doing a minor deal now and then, waiting to see this summer, like you said. Where does Giannis go? Where does John Morant go? Where do all these. Does somebody else. Does the east get better or worse? What. What do we need here to make this team kind of like, capable of coming out to the Pistons? What moves do the Pistons make? And what moves can we get in on as a third team anyway, like, that. There's so many questions here that I don't know that the all in move is there for the Celtics. That's. That's. I think the all in move is a summer move. Maybe they do get day Ron Sharp. Maybe they get one of those five, six million dollar guys, and it's something like that. And. And the rest is. We'll wait and see, which I would totally, totally buy as well. So, yeah, with all of these questions, I just want a couple more answers before it's like, okay, let's give me the launch codes. I'm hitting the button.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, for sure. And I mean, I think that's. I. I mean, I. I was gonna. I was gonna launch into an even longer discussion about Jaren Jackson Jr. Being like, the full on, like, launch, launch, press all the buttons. But yes, I. I think that's right. And I think that's. I think you're exactly right. That. That's why I. A smaller move, Wait till the summer. That. That would be my guess for sure.

[John Corrales]

We'll leave it there. Who knows? Something will happen tomorrow that'll change everything, because that's.

[Tom Westerholm]

Janice is actually coming to Boston tomorrow. You heard it here first.

[John Corrales]

Brush up on my Greek. I'm dying for Giannis to come to Boston somehow, so I can ask him Greek questions in the middle of the scrum and get my exclusives. That's all I want. I want exclusives in the scrum. And I hear a lot of people coming in. They talk to Al Horford in Spanish. They talk to Ugo in Spanish. Yeah, yeah. It's like you're you when you are bilingual. You can go there and you can ask a question. I'm like, I gotta run this through a translator and whatever. Perfectly fine, perfectly valid thing to do. And I'm just like, can we get Giannis in here somehow so I can do this now? It's the only chance I have. I have not learned Spanish. I took French in high school. Don't even know how to speak that anymore. So give me a Greek. Give me a Greek in here and then we can go like a real, like, good one. Not a. I don't know. Don't give me thanosis.

[Tom Westerholm]

Oh, if you're getting Giannis, I think you're getting finances.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, probably. All right, well, we'll all go eat some Vlockies together somewhere. All right, Tom, thank you so much. Appreciate you, man. I do appreciate all of you who have been with us for 38 minutes. Thank you for sticking around this long. I mean, we could go on for hours on trade discussion, but we'll limit it here. We'll come back to it when we need to. Two weeks is the deadline, so lots of interesting stuff going to happen between now and then. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Would love it now if you shared the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day.

[Jake (Lockdown Celtics Promo)]

This is Jake from Lock Dawn. When the game's on the line, the best know when to pass, because the right assist can change everything. And off the court, it's no different. That's where your State Farm agent comes in. Whether it's protecting your car, your home, or helping you prep for the unexpected, they'll help set you up with a game plan that works for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state.

[Podcast Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. The new Cross training series balances your workouts with 15 plus workout types for endless movements on and off your equipment. Stay motivated with weekly personalized plans that guide you from beginner to expert. And push past your goals with routines tailored to you. Get the new Cross Training series.

[John Corrales]

Term supply New year, same extra value meals at McDonald's. So now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for just $8 for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.