Brad Stevens TALKS: Jayson Tatum RETURN timeline, Boston Celtics TRADE strategy

Summary

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Locked On Celtics – Brad Stevens Talks: Jayson Tatum Return Timeline & Boston Celtics Trade Strategy

Date: December 18, 2025
Host: John Karalis (Boston Sports Journal)
Co-host: Tom Westerholm
Guest (Quotes Featured): Brad Stevens (Celtics President of Basketball Operations)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Brad Stevens' highly anticipated media session, in which he sheds light on the status of Jayson Tatum’s injury rehab and the Celtics’ evolving approach to the 2025 trade deadline. John Karalis and Tom Westerholm break down Stevens’ updates, offering analysis and behind-the-scenes context. Key themes include Tatum's return progression, risk management, internal development, and the realities of making moves under the NBA's new collective bargaining rules.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jayson Tatum’s Return: Phases, Caution & Optimism

[04:17–06:12 | 07:00–12:28]

The Recovery Process

• Brad Stevens laid out the meticulous return-to-play protocol for Tatum:

  • Strength Thresholds: Tatum has to hit specific benchmarks in rehab before basketball activities.
  • Progression of Play: After regaining strength, he must go through script-based drills in increasing group sizes (1-on-1, 3-on-3, 5-on-5), then move to unscripted live action.
  • Reconditioning: Only after these steps will Tatum condition for real NBA minutes.

  Quote:

  "...it's a long progression... once you hit the strength, then you do your thresholds of a progression of play and then you're also reconditioning to play real minutes... He's obviously made great strides right now. We're still focused on the full strength game."
  — Brad Stevens [04:17]

No Rushed Timeline—Reading Between the Lines

• No Timeline Provided: "We're not putting a timeline on it, as we haven't the whole time," says Stevens. The team won’t estimate a return date or rush the process.
• DPE Decision as a Signal: The Celtics did not apply for a Disabled Player Exception (DPE), a decision Stevens volunteered. This hints that the team expects Tatum back this season.
  • Quote:

    "We didn't apply for a DPE this year, which was a conscious decision...he's not going to be back until he's 110% healthy and he feels good about it, and that's a big part of it."
    — Brad Stevens [05:09]

Psychological Readiness

• Mental as well as Physical: Both Stevens and the hosts emphasized that mental confidence is crucial alongside physical rehab. Unless Tatum feels ready, he won’t return.
  • Quote:

    "The body could be fully healthy. If the mind says, I'm not ready, then you're not ready."
    — John Karalis [09:09]

Takeaways & Timelines

• Expectation Management: Brad urges fans to "pump the brakes," but leaves the door wide open for a playoff return.
• Estimated Timeline: Hosts repeat their previous March projection, correlating with the 8–9 month injury recovery window suggested by Tatum's family.
  • Quote:

    "I said March from the beginning... that February to March timeline still feels very much where I would expect him to come back."
    — John Karalis [10:11]

Risk Avoidance

• No Shortcuts: Both player and franchise are united in not risking re-injury by rushing back.
  • Quote:

    "He is not going to waste another year of his prime rehabbing something. He's only going to come back when he's 100 fully, fully ready."
    — John Karalis [12:28]

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2. Celtics’ Trade Deadline Strategy: Patience, Constraints & Negotiation

[17:17–35:16]

The Crowded Standings & NBA's Second Apron Hurdles

• Stevens described the league as full of teams still “figuring out who we are,” making major trades less likely at this early stage.

  • Quote:

    "What's the difference between third and ninth in the east right now? There's hardly anything... we will not put a ceiling on this group...but it all has to be within good deals, and it all has to be within...the North Star of retooling so we're in a position to compete for what we want."
    — Brad Stevens [17:31]

• Second Apron Rules Complicate Trading:

  • Trades are logistically challenging due to salary-matching and multi-team deal requirements.
  • It's no longer easy to simply swap contracts—four-way trades are becoming common.

  Host Insight:

  "You can’t do one-for-one deals...the apron era makes it so hard to match contracts that everything’s a three and four team trade now."
  — John Karalis [20:03]

Philosophy: Internal Growth Versus External Fixes

• Brad’s Calculated Approach:

  • Open to deals if the right one arises, but not desperate or inclined to overpay; keeping the “North Star” (championship contention) in view.
  • Cites the benefits of internal development—young players like Neemias Queta and Jordan Walsh have seized new roles during Tatum’s absence.

  Quote:

  "If I feel like we can do something to reach those things and it makes sense with another team that's willing to do something, which is very complicated, then we always listen...But the North Star is the North Star, and we'll keep it that way."
  — Brad Stevens [27:57]

  • Tom’s Analysis:

    "I think the implication to me was like, I really like what I'm seeing from Keda right now...it's not the worst idea in the world for these guys to continue to get those opportunities."
    — Tom Westerholm [31:27]

• Negotiation Through the Media:

  • Stevens carefully praises existing players (e.g., Anthony Simons, Neemias Queta) to set market value, discouraging rivals from lowball offers.

  Quote:

  "He never said that Anthony was good...but he said, I like him a lot. He's really trying. I'm a big fan...Basically saying, hey, Lawrence Frank, L.A. Clippers, I know you got a Vita Zubot, but we're not going to overpay."
  — John Karalis [33:36]

The “Saffron” Analogy: Weighing Upgrades and Costs

• Cooking Metaphor: Upgrading the roster is like deciding whether to hunt down an expensive ingredient (saffron) for a dish that is “already not bad.”

  • If the missing piece is hard to get or too pricey, you “just wait and make it again next time.”
  • Ties back to not overvaluing external help if the cost is prohibitive.

  Memorable Exchange:

  "If it is saffron, maybe you pass on it, right?"
  — John Karalis [29:30]
  "I just Googled and found out is very expensive...If I can find some saffron on the cheap, yeah, then sure. But if I'm gonna get charged full price...then I'm going to wait to make my saffron dish..."
  — John Karalis, Tom Westerholm [29:34–30:12]

Brad Stevens' Negotiation Style

• Measured but Firm: Brad isn’t in the business of fleecing teams like predecessor Danny Ainge, but neither will he accept unfavorable deals.
  • Quote:

    "Brad is very measured...I don't expect you to try and rob me...we're going to duel like gentlemen..."
    — John Karalis [34:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tatum’s Rehab:

  "...he's not going to be back until he's 110% healthy and he feels good about it, and that's a big part of it."
  — Brad Stevens [05:09]

• On Trade Deadline Approach:

  "We will not put a ceiling on this group. If it makes sense for us...we certainly will. But it all has to be within good deals and within the ultimate goal, the North Star..."
  — Brad Stevens [17:31]

• The "Saffron" Metaphor:

  "If I can find some saffron on the cheap, yeah, then sure. But if I'm gonna get charged full price for it, then I'm gonna wait..."
  — John Karalis [29:34]

• Brad on Internal Growth:

  "It would have been easy for all of us to assume that Mimi would have a long way to go in this role. And he’s just jumped in and grabbed it and been great...So there's a balance with all that. But the North Star is the North Star, and we'll keep it that way."
  — Brad Stevens [27:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Tatum’s Return Protocol & Brad’s Update: [04:17–09:42]
• Hosts’ Analysis of Recovery Timeline: [09:42–12:56]
• Trade Deadline Philosophy—Current NBA Landscape: [17:17–21:20]
• Apron/CBA Complications and Cooking Analogy: [21:20–25:01]
• Should Boston “Go For It” Now or Wait: [27:57–31:27]
• Negotiation Tactics & Valuing Celtics Assets: [31:27–35:16]

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Final Takeaways

• Tatum’s Outlook: Progressing through a structured, cautious rehab; no set return date but optimism for a late-season comeback.
• Trade Strategy: Brad Stevens is patient, values internal growth, and will only make “North Star” deals that don’t compromise the future or overpay in a tough trade environment.
• Tone & Style: Analytical, slightly playful (especially with metaphors), and very much about incremental progress rather than gamble-or-bust moves.

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[Summary compiled from Locked On Celtics podcast, December 18, 2025, with full attributions and timestamps for context.]

Transcript

[John Corrales]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

Inspires the College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, growth, sacrifices, laser focus. This is where i50 everything you got all damn day. The attention to detail is like none other. Be physical, be flat. We are the winner. Tulane takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon. Time to bring it first round coverage of the College Football playoffs presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO. Max, are you ready? Brad Stevens talks about Jason Tatum's potential return, what he has to do to get back, and the approach to the trade deadline. Will they go for it now or wait? It's right now on the Lockdown Celtics podcast, huh?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yup.

[John Corrales]

Beam Town be ever ready. It's the seas. Who else could it be? What they gonna say now screaming like J.T. corralis recap the madness every game, every practice, prime time. Jeff and D White on the sideline. Rennie J. How we started raising ban that's how we finish. Locked on selfish pot Home of the winners baby. There. Welcome back to to the Lockdown Celtics Podcast right here in the Lockdown Podcast Network where it is your team every day. Your team is the Boston Celtics and I'm talking about them every Monday through Friday. Got free bonus podcasts for you this week. They play Friday night, Saturday night so you'll get bonus content there. This show is free and available everywhere, so subscribe wherever you get your podcast. It's the number one Celtics podcast on the number one Podcast network. If you're new to the show, I'm John Corrales, beat writer for Boston Sports Journal. I've been doing a version of this job for about 20 years. I've been doing this podcast for 10, and I've written a couple of books about this team. Today's show is all about Brad Stevens. He talked to the media on Wednesday, and I was there. I asked him a few questions. We've got. You'll hear everything that Brad had to say in on these topics. So let's just dive into it. And we're going to dive into it with our guy, Tom Westerholm.

[Tom Westerholm]

What's up? What's up?

[Advertiser/Promotions]

How's it going?

[John Corrales]

Yeah, it's going all right. How you doing?

[Tom Westerholm]

Pretty good.

[John Corrales]

We're bringing the energy today.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go.

[John Corrales]

All right, that's gonna make for an interesting thumbnail later on. We're going to talk about the trade deadline. The trade deadline is like two different topics because it's the approach to the trade deadline, which he says some interesting things, but then also going for it now. Celtics surprising a bunch of people. Do they. Do they make a run for it now or hold off? All of that's coming up in the second and third segments. But Jason Tams return was like the second question asked and he had a couple of answers about this. Everybody's all geeked up about the videos of him and everything. It's like, oh, my God, he looks like he can play. Here's Brad on where Tatum is, the things he needs to do to come back, and the team's approach on that.

[Brad Stevens]

There's strength thresholds he has to meet, and then after that, several weeks of progressions, right from the standpoint of, you know, scripted against small groups, scripted against bigger groups, scripted in five on five, unscripted, random all the way up through those. But it's a, it's a long progression and it's almost like once you hit the strength, then you do your thresholds of a progression of play and then you're also reconditioning to play real minutes, you know, whatever that looks like. It's, you know, he's. He's obviously made great strides right now. We're still focused on the full strength game.

[Tom Westerholm]

Where's he at right now, terms of that progress.

[Brad Stevens]

Great.

[Tom Westerholm]

What do you think the likelihood is.

[Brad Stevens]

That he will play this year? You know, we're not putting a timeline on it, as we haven't the whole time. I mean, I think that. And, you know, one of the things that everybody can see is we didn't apply for a DPE this year, which was, you know, a conscious decision on a lot of. For a lot of reasons. But the reality is, is he's not going to be back until he's 110% healthy and he feels good about it, and that's a big part of it.

[John Corrales]

Right.

[Brad Stevens]

Obviously, he's itching to play. Obviously, he hates watching, but he's also, you know, I don't want to speak for him, but very cognizant of the need to meet every threshold and why there are those things that are put in place. We've had a lot of great talks about it, and, you know, one of the things that we love about this whole group, but I think the guys that have been here the longest lead the charge is they love to play.

[John Corrales]

A lot there. The first thing that sticks out to me is they're still in the strength building phase. And then from there, once you meet all your strength check boxes, there are scripted.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

One on one, three on three, five on five scripted things and then unscripted things. And I don't know how long each of those things is. Is going to go. But this notion that Tatum is working his way back for a return, that's happening anytime soon, I think this puts a lot of cold water on that possibility. Not that he, he could come back this season still. I still think that's going to happen.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

But this kind of was like, it was very Brad Stevens way of saying, pump the, Pump the brakes.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, yeah, to an extent. It was also, I mean, so for sure, right? Because I mean, he was like, he really laid out the timeline. He said, like, which, I mean, Joe Missoula is gonna love that because now, you know, anytime it looks like there's anything that's happening that could be on that timeline, it's gonna be Joe. Joe. Joe Jojo. Is he. So is he out of the strength? Is he. Is he doing scripted? Is he doing scripted? Like. Yeah, Brad just taught all of you guys a bunch of words that you now get to use to Joe. That Joe so sick of, which is very funny. But. So, I mean, that, that part for sure. I mean, you know. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

You know, that December, I'm laughing at Joe going up to Brad being like, thanks, thanks, you. You just screwed me. Thank you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, Brad just made a very MMA enemy, so good job, Brad. No, so I, I think that you're, you're 100, like 100 agree that this was like some cold water on it, but I also Thought it was. It was interesting. Right. Because Brad also, like, he didn't have to say all that stuff about the disabled player exception for a couple of reasons. One, the disabled player exception does not prevent Tatum from coming back. Right. So it's like he. He said, like, okay, this is, you know, like, you know, he kind of like, admitted, like, hey, people could read the tea leaves here. And, you know, but. But also, like, there was just no reason to bring that up except to sort of hint out, like, yeah, he might be coming back this year.

[John Corrales]

Like, right.

[Tom Westerholm]

To kind of give that little bit of a hint. So. So he did throw some cold water on it, but he also really left some breadcrumbs toward. For the. You're probably going to see this guy this season crowd.

[John Corrales]

It definitely felt that way. The. The 110% healthy and he feels good about it is another part that stuck out to me. It's the, obviously they're gonna have their own team doctor opinion. They're gonna have the surgeon that did the surgery opinion for sure. They may go with a blind opinion and say, here's another expert. Like, here, you know, somebody, you know, get this opinion to him and you tell me without knowing who it is.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

What's your assessment? You know what I mean?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And so you get all of those opinions and then, okay, he's ready. How do you feel mentally? I've always talked about the. The mental kind of hurdle of, do you feel comfortable? And that's probably why you do the scripted, unscripted, all of that stuff go out there. Do you feel good? Do you think you're ready? The body could be fully healthy. If the mind says, I'm not ready, then you're not ready. You're not 100%. So that has to be both of those things. But, yeah, he wants to play. He's itching to play. Everything. Everything is pointing to.

[Tom Westerholm]

We're.

[John Corrales]

We're checking off boxes here. And so I agree with you. Making sure that you mention, hey, we didn't put out the. We didn't apply for the DP this year. No one asked him about that. No. It's funny, Brad, when he says things and what he doesn't say, you're like, everything is. Is very pointed. It's very direct. It's not. He doesn't just be like, ah, man, I screwed up. It's very rare that he just screws up.

[Tom Westerholm]

Whoops.

[John Corrales]

He. He says things for a reason. So, yeah, I, I agree. So I said March from the beginning. I think. I think March still feels Good, because we just crossed seven months post surgery. January is eight months. I think that's still a little on the early side, but it's, but now we're in the wheelhouse. That's when his family was like, I think his dad said when he first suffered the injury, this is an eight month thing. So January starts like the. Oh, so are we checking boxes? Where are we on the scripted, unscripted stuff? And so I think, I think that that February to March timeline still feels very, very much where I would expect him to come back.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I, I think that's right. I, I mean, I'm with you. That, you know, it's interesting that he, that he kind of hammered the, like, when Tatum feels comfortable. Right. Because I think, you know, Brad, he said okay when Tatum feels comfortable, and he also said okay when, you know, like. But he also said that Tatum's itching to come back. Those two things in tandem, I think are, I don't know. It's interesting to consider those two things. Right. Because Tatum, like, he's not going to make bad decisions, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Like, he's going like, Tatum is also going to make smart, educated decisions about this. He's not, he's raring to come back. He wants to come back. He hates to be sitting out. But also, like, I think the good news is that, like, Tatum does have, have a good head on his shoulders and it's kind of like, okay, I, I need to wait as long as I need to wait. And, and we've. You have, have been saying this. You know, I agree completely. Like, there's no point in holding him out if he's 100%.

[John Corrales]

That's right.

[Tom Westerholm]

Mentally and physically. There's no point put him in if he's 100% mentally and physically ready. And I think the good thing about Jason Tatum is that he's a smart guy. He's a thoughtful guy who's going to consider like, okay, AM I really 100% ready? I'm not going to just like, force myself back because I have some deadline that I feel like I need to make. I, I'm coming back when I'm ready.

[John Corrales]

I'll wrap this up by saying this. Jason Tatum doesn't want to go through this again.

[Tom Westerholm]

No.

[John Corrales]

So as much as he's itching to play, he doesn't want to go through this rehab again.

[Tom Westerholm]

No.

[John Corrales]

He doesn't want to do this again. Like, why would anybody believe that? Okay. Oh, I, I've gotten 95% of the way back. Let me just do another. Let me just throw away another year of my career to, for an increased chance of re injuring this because I'm not a hundred percent like, no, he.

[Tom Westerholm]

He gets season where conference finals would be like a wild overachievement. Like, especially like this is not the season to push it.

[John Corrales]

Like, there's right. People want to just say, ah, he's gonna push it. He's gonna try to come back. He does not want to do this again. Nobody wants him to do this again. Brad Stevens doesn't want to do this again. So this notion that the team or the player is going to go out there and have gone through all of this and get to the very end and at that point be like, ah, all right, we're going to cut a corner. No, he is their number. He is their reason for being in contention, which means money coming into the team, which means money that the, you know, for potentially the, you know, the owner, the raises for everybody, like extended contracts. There's a lot of reason to be like extra cautious with Jason Tatum. So he, he is not going to waste another year of his prime rehabbing something. He's only going to come back when he's 100 fully, fully ready. So that should just ease everybody's fears. Yes. Now, as for this team, still a little bit of a surprise. Still potential for like, hey, maybe there's something out there to be done. How does Brad Stevens approach the trade deadline? Does he go for it? Now, that is coming up when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by Robin Hood. No one knows your money goals better than you. Robinhood puts you in control of your money with tools that work as hard as you do, locking in on every opening, beating your pr, Beating it again. Channel that drive into your money. Robinhood puts you in control of your money. Trade stocks and ETFs, options, futures and crypto all on one platform. You can now build and execute your own trades from a desktop with Robinhood Legends advanced tools. Or take advantage of the new Robinhood strategies with a tailored portfolio managed by a team of experts. You expect more from yourself, expect more from your money. Get started [e-mail] again, that's robinhood.com yourmoney, your money, your move. Today's show is also brought to you by gusto. Let's be real. No one starts a business for the joy of calculating tax withholdings or managing payroll spreadsheets. That's where gusto comes in. They, they take the stress out of payer Payroll, benefits and HR so you can focus on running your business and supporting your team. Gusto is the all in one remote friendly pay payroll, an HR platform that makes managing your team simple, transparent and fast. Whether you're hiring, onboarding or paying employees, Gusto helps you do it all from one place without the hassle or hidden fees. Unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price, which means no surprise charges at the end of the month. Gusto's automated tools offer letters. They, they, they have automated tools like offer letters. You know, the letters that you send out to offer people employment, onboarding materials after you hire them, direct deposits that can save you hours every week. And knowing you can reach certified HR experts anytime gives you a real peace of mind. Try gusto [e-mail] lockdown MBA and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's right, three months of free [e-mail] lockdown NBA one more time. That's gusto.com lockdown MBA thank you for making Locked on Celtics your first listen every day. Now let's take it to the next level. Get locked on Celtics with no interruptions with the Everydayers club. You're already in every day or here with me Monday through Friday, the Everydayers club. No interruptions on a daily audio feed. Ad free, members only, Discord access and more. All for five bucks a month. Just five bucks a month. You can get $50 a year. You get basically two months free. Or if you are. If we're on your Spotify wrapped up, you can get an extra five bucks off. Just tag the national network on a social media post. Check the link in the show notes, but you can get it at locked on celtics.supercast.com lockonceltics.supercast.com all of them are at lockedonpodcast.com everyday. Or join the Everydayers club and let's, you know, take it up to the next level. Celtics are trying to take it to the next level this year, potentially at the trade deadline. Whoops. I I'm sure Tom was complimenting me there when he was muted.

[Tom Westerholm]

I actually was. I said, what a transition.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, there you go.

[Tom Westerholm]

How so? There you go.

[John Corrales]

We're heading to the trade deadline in a couple months. We just opened up. We had the podcast the earlier this week with Keith Smith kind of setting things up. We're in trade season now. Brad was asked about his approach to the trade deadline. Here's what he had to say.

[Brad Stevens]

Everybody or a lot of teams are really still very much in. Let's see how Everything looks. And as time moves on, right. I think, you know, everybody's a work in progress. There's. What's the difference between third and ninth in the east right now? There's hardly anything. Right. And I think that we're all still trying to figure out who we are and what we can be. We will not put a ceiling on this group. If it makes sense for us to look for things that can. That can help us, we certainly will. But it all has to be within good deals, and it all has to be within the, you know, the ultimate goal, which is the North Star of, you know, retooling. So we're in a position to compete for what we want to compete for.

[John Corrales]

The North Star, he's been saying a lot. The championship, the North Star, to answer his question, yeah, the difference between three and nine is one and a half games. The difference between three and eight is one. Miami Heat are 14 and 12. And then there's a Milwaukee Bucks at 11 and 16. So there are two things that, that make this difficult. The. All of these teams are still in the play in, and there is still the. You look at the teams at the bottom. Washington is tanking. They're not exactly looking to get any better. Indiana is a different story, but they're down there. Brooklyn, Charlotte, these are teams, they're just like, yeah, let's just go for it in a loaded draft. They're not looking to make many moves. And then the teams in the play in, well, hey, you know, you get a chance here. And if, even if you're in Milwaukee, you're like, let's, let's figure this out. Let's kind of hang around and if we can get it together, we got Giannis, we can make a run, blah, blah, blah. It just makes. It does make things lot more difficult now that December 15th has come. A lot of the. These guys can be traded. The, the guys who signed over the summer. But who's sitting there going like, ah, yeah, I'm done with, you know, we. We know who we are. Which teams in the east know who they are? Detroit, New York.

[Tom Westerholm]

Then even, even Detroit's funny because it's like Detroit knows who they are, but like, they just met. You know what I mean? It's like. It's like they know who they are, but like, but like.

[John Corrales]

And they're the team that everybody's looking at. It's like, boy, you are the, the candidate for consolidation, trade. And so it's, It's.

[Tom Westerholm]

You have.

[John Corrales]

You have a lot of different things in this Mix. You have that scenario, you have the Bucks with Giannis. Who knows what's going on there. You have an Atlanta Hawks kind of up in the air. You have teams in the west there, there's, there's a lot here that makes. I know we're, we're looking at trade season, but I, I agree with Bradley. This is. There is no certainty here that I, I don't know how you get anything together. And on top of that, Tom, you can't do one for one deals. You can't just call up Detroit and be like, al, let's do a deal. They. The second apron, the apron era, it just makes it so hard to match contracts that everything's a three and four team trade now. So on top of the situation, the scenario being kind of like, we don't know how it's going to go. When you do say, okay, all right, we're going to. Bucks say, okay, let's say, all right, we're going to move Giannis. Well, how do you move a $60 million contract in today's NBA? You can't. It's hard. You got to get multiple teams involved and that, that makes it infinitely more difficult.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, I enjoyed. I don't think Brad. We just talked about how intentional Brad is, and I don't think this is actually what he was doing, but I enjoyed him saying like, we're not going to put a ceiling on this group. And it's like, well, you use ceiling. That's. That, that's, that's a good word. And you used we. That is also a good word. However, the NBA is going to put an apron on you, which is basically the same thing as a ceiling being put on you here. Yeah, no, I, I think Brad is, I think that he. And we're going to get to this in a minute here. I think he, he did everything that he could to say we would like to make like. I also, and know some things about basketball and I see that this is a flawed roster. I, I do not think that I have. That I've put together the, the. I don't think that I'm, you know, I don't think that I am on my way perfectly straight to my North Star with this current roster. That. But, but it's, it is going to be really hard. Right? This is, this is going to be a really complicated trade season. I mean, you know, on paper there should be a really easy way to do this, right? Just like, okay, let's find somebody who's a little bit cheaper than Anthony Simons. Attach a pick to Anthony Simons. Like, let's find a center who's a little bit cheaper than Anthony Simons. Attach a pick to Anthony Simons and go get that center. On paper, that should be super easy. But, like, that, that's not the NBA that we watch anymore. It's a very different game. Now.

[John Corrales]

I'll do another cooking analogy since I'm. It's kind of like my thing. It's almost like kg. KG was big with the cooking analogy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Brad, you're comparing yourself to kg. I, I, I appreciate. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Very often confused for one another.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

Brad basically took a bunch of stuff in the fridge, and it was like, yeah. Or like, you go to the supermarket and, you know, like, you get, like, the $2 off if you buy it today. Like, it's ready to expire. And you're like, all right, we'll just take that, and I'll just take this. I'll just take some of this. All this stuff that's ready to expire, and I'm just gonna throw it in a pot. And he just threw it in there. He's like, I don't know. I don't know. This is probably gonna suck. And all of a sudden, you're, like, tasting. You're like, oh, this is. It's not bad. It's missing a couple of things. It's missing something, but it's not bad. And the question is, do you just roll with this is not bad, or do you say. Say I'm gonna add a couple of things to this and make this the, like, them you're trying to serve. Remember, we're trying to be the chef that determines what you eat. Like, we're gonna give. We're making our offering. Do you add just a couple of things to this, or you're like, you know what? I'm going to serve this to the kitchen staff. I'm going to wait. I'm going to actually go shopping for better ingredients because I know what I can put together there. Like, did I hit on something here, or am I going to, like, go with the more known recipe?

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And, like, the easier answer is just to give everybody what you're. What you currently have. Right. Because you can always go get, you know, the saffron or whatever. Like, the weird thing is that you just didn't. You just didn't have that one specific thing that this dish needed. You needed that one. One specific dish. It would be pretty good if you had it.

[John Corrales]

Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

Like, just needs something. So you have the choice of going back to the store and inconveniencing, you know, your entire plan for the evening, inconveniencing everything and going back to the store. Or you could just make it again the next time. You know, like, like, just, just wait and make it again next time. I don't know. It's. There's not a wrong choice, but yeah, it's. It is complicated.

[John Corrales]

Let's see what, let's see what Brad has to say about saffron and going for it. Now when we come back, I don't.

[Tom Westerholm]

Know what saffron is. I'm gonna be honest.

[John Corrales]

Say it with, say with your chest and no one will question you. Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

All right, I did. But anyway, yeah.

[John Corrales]

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[John Corrales]

Thank you for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day. Thank you for being an everydayer on the number one sports podcast network. Here it's the Locked On Celtics number one Celtics podcast. Locked on Lockdown Podcast Network is the number one sports podcast network, was really impressive. And it's all because of you, the everydayers who are choosing to listen Monday through Friday, plus the bonus podcast on the weekends. We got Locked on NBA, Locked on NBA game night, locked on fantasy basketball. All things that you should be listening to after we're done here, check them out. Or check out Locked on Heat, because the Celtics are playing the heat coming up. Get. Get their take on what's going on. Always listen to the Enemy podcast when you get an opportunity. All right, let's get back into this, Tom. So Brad Stevens, let's get into whether he should go for it now or wait.

[Brad Stevens]

If I feel like we can do something to reach those things and it makes sense with another team that's willing to do something which is very complicated, then we always listen and we always look and we're always pursuing that. There's nothing holding us back necessarily from that. But at the same time, right, there's a lot of things that have to go right in a deal. One thing you can't control is the people in the room getting better. And, you know, like, I think. I think it would have been easy for all of us to assume that Mimi would have a long way to go in this role. And he's just jumped in and grabbed it and been great, right? Like, Jordan's getting to grow because of the opportunities there. So there's a balance with all that. But the North Star is the North Star, and we'll keep it that way.

[John Corrales]

The North Star again, the North Star makes its appearance. So we're always open to it. We're always. We're always listening. Okay, yeah, that's fine. Internal growth, that's another thing. It's just interesting that, that, you know, he's. He's open to it. He's open to something. But I think it's just. We're. We're not going to overextend. We're just not going. Going back to the. The. The. The two. It's missing two things, and you're like, what. What is it? If the ingredient is too expensive, it's just not. If you, you know, saffron, which I.

[Tom Westerholm]

Just googled and found out is very expensive. If it is saffron, maybe you pass on it, right?

[John Corrales]

You can say, there you go. I'm glad that you Googled it.

[Tom Westerholm]

If.

[John Corrales]

If it is that, and you're like, if I can find some saffron on the cheap, yeah, then sure. But if. If I'm gonna get charged full price for it. Then I'm gonna wait to make my saffron dish something, you know, the next year, the next time around. So, yeah, I've said saffron so much.

[Tom Westerholm]

This is like, we really hit that one hard.

[John Corrales]

We really. We. I think we set a record for saffron mentions in a basketball podcast. Anyway.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, it's about to. It's about to not sound like a. A word anymore.

[John Corrales]

So, anyway. Yes, go ahead.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, no, I. I agree. And I. I think that it's interesting. The way he phrased all of that is really interesting, too, because I think he was. He was. To me, he was hinting, like, yeah, if the right deal comes along, of course we will make the right deal. Like, that's. That's not in question. And. And of course, like, you know, going back to his line about not putting a ceiling on this team, if this. If you can make the right deal, that this team then is like, whoa, we really like what we've got here. That's awesome. But I thought that it was really telling that he used that. He immediately jumps to talking about Neemi, right? He's like. He's like, you know, we can make a deal, but Neemi is getting all these reps. And I think the implication to me was like, I really like what I'm seeing from Keda right now, and I. I am not going to, like, there's something there. And I mean, yeah, if the right deal comes along, sure. But I like what I'm seeing from Neemi, and I like what I'm seeing from Walsh. And they're getting these opportunities, and it's not the worst idea in the world for these guys to continue to get those opportunities, to continue to grow internally. That was the. That was the impression I got from that of like, kind of like, okay, yeah, we'll make the right deal. But I like. I do like these guys. I like what I'm seeing.

[John Corrales]

So I feel like. Here's my read on this. I feel like this is a little bit of negotiation, negotiating through the press.

[Tom Westerholm]

That could be too. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

So I'm gonna fold in something that he said about Anthony Simons. He was asked about Anthony, where he. His quote was, I think he's really trying, and I really have. First of all, he's a quiet guy, but he's just a super person. He's come in with a great mindset, going to help the team any way I can. Offensively, he knows he's capable. Capable of going nuts every. Any given name game. But then defensively, I've just really been impressed. He's picked up. He's made it hard. I think he's made great strides in the months he's been here on that end. And I'm a big fan. I like him a lot. He never said that Anthony was good. No. But he said, I like him a lot. He's really trying. I'm a big fan. Like, Nene. And he had another queen of a tweet about Neemi, like, talking about, like, he's really impressed. So what I think he's doing is, oh, yeah, we need a center. But, you know, hey, I like Nami Ishkeda. Yeah. And if you want to trade for Anthony Simons, I'm a big fan. I like Anthony Simon. So, you know, we're not just going to give him away. And we like what we have as far as Nimius Cada. So we're not going to go like crazy basically saying, hey, Lawrence Frank, L.A. clippers, I know you got a Vita Zubot, but we're not going to overpay. All of this just screams. I know that there's a guy out there. I feel like Zubot is the name that's on everybody's tip, on everybody's tongue. And he's like, if Zoo. If you want to give us a deal for Zoo, that's. That makes sense for us, then, yeah, we'll all do that deal, no problem. But I like the guy that we'd be trading away, so don't go too crazy because I'm just letting everybody know that I like him. And the center that we have, I like him, too. I'm very impressed by him. And, boy, that. Oh, that internal development is so good.

[Tom Westerholm]

He's.

[John Corrales]

I just feel like he's laying the groundwork, telling everybody out there where he stands on his own, guys pumping them up and, like, letting everybody know I'm. You're not gonna fleece me. Yeah. You know, you're not gonna put your reverse Danny Ainge on me.

[Tom Westerholm]

And, I mean, I would imagine that most of the NBA knows they're not going to fleece Brad Stevens, like, easy, like. And that's not. You know, it's funny because it's not. I don't get the impression from Brad that he's necessarily trying to fleece everybody the way Danny did, but I do.

[John Corrales]

Like, you know.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, no, but, like, you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna fleece Brad. Like, you're just.

[John Corrales]

Oh, you're just. Brad is very measured and he's like, hey, listen, I understand. You gotta give something up to get something.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes. Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Not gonna bust your chops like Danny does. Like, I'm not gonna go out there and try and rob you at the same time. I don't expect you to try and rob me.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yes.

[John Corrales]

So either we're going to. It's like. It's like a duel, you know, like, we're going to duel like gentlemen, and we're going to take our 10 paces. We're going to turn and fire, and may the best man win. That's like the trade competition where Danny Ainge was like, you know, doing the Rambo, putting the face paint on and all that. So he's like, I'm here to just lay waste to the entire league and win everything that Danny just wants to win trades. I. I just think Danny's. I mean, Brad is very much. Okay, we will give something. Yeah. But don't. Don't insult me, sir, with your. Your offers, because I am not falling for that stuff. So I also really liked.

[Tom Westerholm]

I also really liked his negotiating in the media with, like, future free agents where he's like, yeah, you know, you just look around the league and all you see is just like, Celtics out there, right? I mean, Celtics. But I mean, when you leave, I mean, you're just a new guy. Like, you just see these Celtics everywhere.

[John Corrales]

It is pretty funny. But he's right, though, Evan. Luke Cornett was not wrong. I mean, you know, Luke Cornett was good in that and that NBA Cup Final, the putbacks. Like, Luke. Luke with the block in Orlando with the. The point that I need that T shirt, man. If anybody needs that T shirt. Like, I need that T shirt, man. Yeah. So anyway.

[Tom Westerholm]

All right, we'll wear it on the podcast.

[John Corrales]

I'll definitely wear that on the pod. Hey, San Antonio Spurs. Anybody out there in the spurs, send us that t shirt. I'll 100 wear that on the podcast. I will have everything Brad Stevens said available on. On Boston Sports Journal on Thursday morning. Everything he said, my reaction to everything that he said. So you can follow me there for the rest. But for now, that's where we're gonna leave it. Tom, thank you so much.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate you, man.

[John Corrales]

I do appreciate good old Tom Westerholm, good old Mr. Reliable here for us whenever we need him. I do appreciate you the. Every day are here with me every Monday through Friday. I'm here for you Monday through Friday. They play Friday night, the Heat in Boston. I'll be there for that bonus podcast. After that, they play Saturday. I was at Toronto bonus podcast. After that you got seven podcasts and then we flow right into next week where they have another Friday. So it'd be 13 podcasts in a row from me. So make sure you're subscribed. They're all free. If you want to go ad free, you can pay five bucks a month or fifty dollars a year to get them in the Everydayers Club. Plus you get access to our exclusive Discord server merchandise stuff. All that stuff that is available@lockdown celtics.supercast.com if we're in your Spotify wrapped share it on social media. Tag the Lockdown Podcast Network. You'll get a coupon for a free month, $5 off. So it's five bucks a month, $50 for the year. Do that to join the Everydayers Club and then share the podcast. Tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast here on the Lockdown Podcast Network. It's your team every day. This is the exclusive table with the view. This is your name on the list.

[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

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[Tom Westerholm]

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[John Corrales]

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