EVOLVING: How the Jaylen Brown & Jayson Tatum DYNAMICALLY Thrive Together

Summary

Locked On Celtics – Episode Summary

Episode: EVOLVING: How the Jaylen Brown & Jayson Tatum DYNAMICALLY Thrive Together
Host: John Corrales (with guest Tom Westerholm)
Date: March 18, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Locked On Celtics explores the evolving dynamic between Celtics stars Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, focusing on their ability to coexist as co-leaders and adapt as the team faces critical late-season and playoff stretches. Host John Corrales and guest Tom Westerholm analyze how both players have grown in skill and mentality—particularly highlighting Jalen's career-best playmaking and Tatum's patient reintegration after injury. The conversation centers around recent games, team challenges, coaching strategies, and the implications for Boston's championship aspirations.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Evolving Brown-Tatum Partnership

• The relationship between Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown is not static but continually developing due to team circumstances, injuries, and personal growth.
• Both players have been “making a strong effort to make it work” despite the team's shifting context and individual ambitions. (John Corrales, 03:09)
• Tatum’s comeback from injury required the team (especially Brown) to adjust on the fly, meshing Tatum's reintegration with Brown’s elevated status as a primary option.

“What the Celtics had was two diverging—actually merging—goals. They had to figure out how to merge these goals of, you know, Tatum... that's the biggest event that's happened to him... For Jalen and the rest of the Celtics, this whole thing was not just about Jason Tatum… it was about trying to win basketball games as a basketball team.”
— Tom Westerholm, 04:01

Tatum’s Patience and Brown’s Ascendancy

• Tatum has taken a "really mature approach"—being willing to play a supporting role while Brown carries the team offensively.
• Brown isn’t “trying to do too much”; instead, he's embraced the primary role and stepped up, handling new pressures and accolades.

“You wanted all of this. [Jalen] said it after the game: 'I always thought I could prove I was one of the best players in the world when I got the opportunity.' Well, here’s your opportunity. You’re doing it. You’re getting loud MVP chants... you gotta be able to take the other stuff with you with it.”
— John Corrales, 07:08

• The hosts comment on Brown’s best season not just statistically, but also mentally in leadership and adaptability.

The Growth Mindset & Legacy

• Both hosts highlight Brown’s continuous year-to-year improvements, not just on the court but also as a leader and member of the Boston community.

“One of the biggest takeaways we're going to have when he retires is just remembering how much he got better every single year... the extent to which he embraced the growth mindset.”
— Tom Westerholm, 09:54

Passing & Playmaking Breakthroughs

• Corrales spotlights Brown’s career-best 5.1 assists per game and over 300 total assists for the first time—projecting he could approach 400 by season end (15:53).
• Brown’s potential assists (9.3 per game) are up, as are his “secondary assists,” highlighting his improved vision and willingness to move the ball.
• Discussion on the style of Brown’s assists: more advanced passes, including highlight-reel lefty hook passes, show new dimensions in his playmaking (17:50–18:18).
• Statistical breakdown: Brown’s assist-to-potential assist gap is in line with other Celtics ballhandlers, suggesting systemic team improvement (19:37–21:02).

Team Offense: Beyond "Your Turn, My Turn"

• Brown’s improved decision-making on drives—making moves earlier, reading defenses better, and not forcing contested shots, which results in a more cohesive offense.
• Tatum's recent performance against Phoenix—stepping back in crunch time and letting Brown close—demonstrates both maturity and tactical growth (25:53–28:47).
• The Celtics now present a more complex playoff challenge, as opponents must plan for both Brown as a primary option and Tatum, even when he’s not initiating.

“The next task is figuring out how fully realized Jaylen Brown and fully realized Jayson Tatum can be fully realized together to where it’s not just kind of, you know, taking turns and letting one guy cook.”
— Tom Westerholm, 28:47

The Broader Team Context & Playoff Implications

• Due to roster changes and younger supporting players, the Celtics’ offense requires even more flexibility—less focus on matchup hunting and more on integrating all available strengths.
• The necessity for both stars to be unselfish and to elevate role players is reiterated, especially as playoff teams attempt to exploit potential weak links (32:04–34:18).

“It’s as much mixing them in with the rest of the team and making sure everybody’s maximized, not just maximizing each other.”
— John Corrales, 34:19

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This might be the most impressive Jaylen Brown season... not just on the court, which has been impressive. Mentally, this has maybe been the most impressive Jaylen Brown season.”
  — John Corrales, 08:22

• “It wasn’t just on the court. It’s been off the court, too....that guy really committed himself every single off season, every single season to being a better player, a better member of the community.”
  — Tom Westerholm, 09:54

• “When you just let these two guys cook—you don’t know which one you have to stop... that makes the Celtics almost impossible to fully ‘solve’ in the playoffs.”
  — Paraphrased summary, building on 28:47–30:57

• Hosts playfully close by joking about overcoming the odds to finish the podcast, displaying the show’s easygoing and humorous tone (34:36–35:06).

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction and Theme Setup – 01:14–03:09
• Challenges of Merging Tatum & Brown’s Goals – 03:09–06:12
• Brown’s Mental/Statistical Growth and Tatum’s Comeback – 06:12–11:13
• Reflection on Brown’s Career and Growth Mindset – 09:54–12:32
• Brown’s Passing/Playmaking Leap (Stats & Impact) – 15:53–23:21
• Team Dynamics, Offense Evolution, and Playoff Threats – 25:53–34:32
• Closing Banter – 34:36–35:11

---

Overall Tone and Takeaways

This episode highlights not only the on-court skills of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum but also their professionalism, adaptability, and shared leadership. The hosts express appreciation for witnessing this evolving partnership, noting that the Celtics' title window is precious and possibly fleeting. As the team adapts to new offensive strategies and features emerging talent, the stars’ ability to collaborate, sacrifice, and evolve is presented as both remarkable and pivotal to Boston’s championship hopes in 2026.

---

For listeners and Celtics fans:
This episode is an insightful deep-dive into the mechanics and mentality behind the Celtics' superstar duo, emphasizing why this moment in franchise history should be cherished.

Transcript

[John Corrales]

It's the lockdown podcast. Network your team every day.

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

Introducing the all new Mazda CX5 featuring more connection. Hey Google, where's the nearest pilates class safety that has your back? More discovery on the scenic routes, more passion in the details and more control in changing weather. The all new Mazda of CX5 more to move every side of you. See it in 5 films@mazda USA.com 5sides Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Nick Engad / Nick Gangstead]

This is Nick Engad with the Lockdown Mavericks podcast. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I love that I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card which can be automatically sent to my high yield savings account through Apple Card right in the wallet app with my iPhone. I can use Apple Card with Apple Pay basically everywhere I go. You can apply for Apple Card 2 right in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple card owners subject to eligibility. Savings and Apple card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member FDIC terms and [e-mail] Jaylen Brown, Jason

[John Corrales]

Tatum seem to be getting along just fine, but the relationship is evolving.

[Tom Westerholm]

There.

[John Corrales]

I'm John Corrales. Today's show is brought to you by FanDuel. Download the FanDuel app and get into college basketball. Turn that energy into a bigger potential win with the college basketball parlay profit boost. Head to FanDuel.com to get started. That's FanDuel.com play your game. Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum is an evolving thing that is going well, we think, but it's changing with me today. Tom Westerholm, everybody.

[Tom Westerholm]

What up?

[John Corrales]

Quick. I gotta get right to the content. Tom. I got no time for chitchat. We're gonna get right to it. Jaylen Brown, Jason Tatum, what are your thoughts?

[Tom Westerholm]

Both pretty good. Both, both Celtics drafted here by. By the Celtics both drafted. What's third pick? Both of them.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's why, that's why everybody applauds when I come on.

[John Corrales]

That's exactly. Okay. All right. No time for chit chat, no time for applause. Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum have the. The Phoenix game was actually a very interesting kind of look at how this thing is evolving because the end of the game was Jalen just doing his thing. Jason kind of observing a little bit. But it, it was the evolution of this relationship between the two I think is going to be really, really fascinating. So I think number one, all of the questions, like I think it was fair to raise the question of how. How are these guys going to work together? Not if. Not anything like that. Just how. Right.

[Tom Westerholm]

How?

[John Corrales]

I think is a big part of all of this. And I think so far, so good. It's been. I think. I don't think we're seeing the final product, Tom, because there's some element here of Jason is recovering, and Jason is trying to, you know, build back. You know, build himself back to the kind of player that he used to be, and everybody has to understand that. But at the same time, you're trying to win games. Jalen is trying to, you know, do what he does. I. I like what I've seen so far, obviously, because they've won a bunch of games, but I like that Jalen is not. He's not trying to do too much. This isn't. This isn't anybody trying to do too much. I think we're seeing everybody really making a strong effort to. To make it work. Yeah.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think, to your point, right. I think not only was it fair to wonder how. How it was all going to work, it was necessary. Right. Like, because I think what. What the Celtics had was two diverging goals here, not diverging, actually merging goals. They had to figure out how to merge these goals of, you know, Tatum. Obviously, he wants the Celtics to win. Obviously, he wants to be a part of a winning team. But for Tatum, you know, the big story for. For Jason Tatum as a person was his comeback story. And that's fair. That's the. That's what, you know, that. That's the biggest event that's. That's happened to him. You know, short of maybe winning a title, Deuce's birth, like, this is, like, one of the biggest moments of his life was getting injured and having to rehab and come back to basketball. That's been a huge moment for him. For Jalen and the rest of the Celtics, this whole thing was like, you know, this whole season was not just about Jason Tatum. In fact, it wasn't about Jason Tatum. It was about, you know, trying to win basketball games as a basketball team. So then when all of that comes together, there is this kind of, okay, you know, like. Like you said, how is this all going to mesh? How is it going to work? And I think that what we're seeing is we're seeing Jason take a really, like, mature approach to, okay, I want to be part of a winning team. This team has been winning without me. So I'm coming in. I'm going to ease myself back in. And, like, you know, like you said, like, Jalen and the rest of the Celtics accepting, you know, fully like, hey, this is a. This is an unbelievably crucial part of our team, and we need to integrate him into what we've already been doing. So I just think. Yeah, kind of a long way of saying, I agree with you. I think that these guys are really like, you can. You can just kind of see them working together to. To make everybody's goals come together, which is usually easier to do in a season where everybody's been playing the whole time when everybody's been playing together the whole time. You know, everybody's goals kind of naturally go the same direction. But this year, there's just been. It's all kind of coming from different angles and different directions, and you can kind of in real time, see them putting the pieces together and making them kind of fit like a Lego set.

[John Corrales]

Yeah. And look, this is. This is a group of champions. There's this group of smart people led by a very smart group of coaches and the smartest front office, arguably in the NBA. So I think everybody could kind of see how this was, you know, all the potential pitfalls. I think everybody could see the. How this could be challenging. I think Joe Missoula kind of making sure that everybody embraces the look. This is what you have. It's going to be tough. I'm sure he and Jalen talk all the time, and, you know, he may not understand. They might understand each other because they mumble so much, but they talk all the time. And I'm sure the conversation goes something along the lines of, this is. This is exactly the what you want. This is what you want. I think this is one of the strengths of Joe Missoula. I go back to the. The. One of the documentaries where, you know, that clip is. Is viral at this point, where the director was like, you. You know, Jason has to deal with a lot of criticism, maybe unfair criticism. And Joe says he gets to. This is the ultimate compliment, that you get to be unfairly criticized because you're so good, that this is part of the job. It. People want to tell you they're just thinking of you no matter what. And for Jalen, this falls under the same category. Jason's had this for a while. Jalen, you wanted all of this. He said it after the game. Like I've always said. I always thought I could prove that I was one of the, you know, best players in the world when I got the opportunity. Well, here's your opportunity. You're doing it. You're getting loud MVP chants Here you're getting loud MVP chants, you know, from all the drunk people at the south. The South St. Patrick State Parade, and, and you're soaking it up. You're loving it. You got to be able to take the other stuff with you with it. And the, the questions. Can. Can Jaylen do the right things when Jason comes back, You're. You're both getting these questions. Fair or unfair, this is what you wanted. You got it. Now you have to deal with it. So you embrace it. Embrace the, the stupidity of the sports talk radio comments. Embrace the stupidity of the social media comments. Take it all in, laugh at it, love it, and then turn around and. And use that however you need to use it so you can go out there and be the best damn basketball player you could be. I think that's ultimately where I've. I've seen Jalen kind of land here. And why not only is this a season where Jalen has been deservedly in the MVP conversation. I think this is. This might be the most impressive Jalen Brown season, not just on the court, which has been impressive mentally. This has been maybe the most impressive Jaylen Brown season because the way he's handled being in that lead role, the way he's handling Jason coming back, all of that stuff, it's been a lot of fun to watch. Here he is his last season in his 20s, and he's still evolving, he's still growing, and I'm glad. I learned a long time ago to stop putting him in these boxes.

[Tom Westerholm]

I think one of the coolest things about Jalen Brown and one of the things that we're going to remember about him when he retires, which, I mean, the speed that his and Tatum's careers feel like they're going at, I mean, it feels like he's going to be, you know, 38 and retiring in, like, two years because it just. It feels like he's. It does not feel like he. He should be leaving his 30s at this juncture. But I think that, like, one of the. One of the biggest takeaways we're going to have when he retires is just remembering, like, how much he got better every single year and, and how it. Yeah, like, to your point, it wasn't just on the court. It was. It's. It has been off the court, too, and it's just been, you know, like how the extent to which he embraced the growth mindset in every aspect of his game, I think is really going to be. Yeah, I mean, you know, he's gonna have the championship and That'll be what a lot of people remember him for. And he's, you know, wherever he ends his career, like, you know, the. The Boston will remember him for a long and very successful stint here. But I think when you just think about him as an individual and as a player, it's going to be hard not to just think about, like, man, that guy. That guy really committed himself every single off season, every single season to being a better player, a better, you know, a better member of the community. Like, you know, that's. It says a lot about a guy when that's. When that's your big takeaway.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, it really is. I keep using the word impressive. I can't think of another word for both of these guys, for. Honestly, for both of them, because Jason is incredibly impressive for a number of reasons, obviously, and this season, for his comeback and playing at such a high level already, but, you know, for both of these guys, I can't. This should be a season where these guys should be appreciated. The. I think the big takeaway from this year is, oh, my God, look at what you have here in Boston. And no matter what happens, you don't have it for much longer. You've had it for longer than you're going to have it moving forward. So that's something that we all need to wrap our heads around. And I'm not saying that anybody's going to get traded or, you know, gone in an expansion draft or anything like that. Just the fact is that Jalen is 10 years into his career. I don't know if he's got another 10. He might, but I don't know if he does. I don't know if he wants another 10.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

So. But, you know, when I say impressive, like the passing numbers, I'll come back. We'll come back. The passing numbers, even. Like when I looked them up today for a story that I wrote on. On Celtics, on si, they. They're even better than I expected. We'll talk about that in just a second. Today's show is brought to you by. Robin Hood. What if sports were traded like markets? Now? You can put your sports IQ to work in real time. You can buy or sell your positions live. It's. It's not you against the house. It's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions live all game long. Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robin Hood Prediction markets changes the game. It's people moving the action so when the momentum shifts, you can move with it. I always knew the game, but I never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge. Now you can actually take part. Live in a market powered by people. You're no longer just a spectator. Play by play, you decide. Trade every play with Robin Hood. Now available across the U.S. download the Robinhood app now to begin Futures and Cleared swaps. Trading involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Event contracts are offered by Robinhood Derivatives llc, a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Today's show is also brought to you by FanDuel. College basketball is non stop and you want to get that energy onto FanDuel.com to take part in the college Basketball Parlay Profit Boost. It's giving you a new way to turn your college basketball energy into bigger potential wins. You can build any college hoops parlay you want, rivalry games, ranked matchups, whatever fits your desires. You can make spreads, totals and player props to match how you see the slate playing out. Then you can apply the profit boost and instantly bump up the potential payout. So whether you're watching late night west coast hoops, big games or tight spreads, you can get in on the action. You can go safe. You can go bold. You can ride with the team you've been following all season long. It's your parlay. It's your style now with more upside behind it. Head to FanDuel.com to get started. That's FanDuel.com FanDuel play your game. Thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen every day in the number one Celtics podcast on the planet on the number one sports podcast network out there. Thanks for joining me. John Corrales I am a beat writer covering the Celtics for Celtics on SI. Been covering this theme for 20 years, now doing this podcast for 10. Thank you for being an everydayer and joining me every Monday through Friday. I got bonus podcasts. By the way, if you missed the bonus podcast, I had a bonus podcast on Expansion Drop on Tuesday afternoon. So check that out. Bonus podcast throughout the week when they play on weekends and all of that. Let's get back to this conversation here about Jalen, Jaylen Brown's passing and all that. Tom the the numbers are kind of incredible. Looking at Jalen's passing all year, he's averaging 5.1 assists per game this season. It's his career high. It's the first time he's crossed 300 total assists for the season. Right? He's already had. He already has 314. So it's already a career high. And there's still what, 14, 15 games left so he has the potential for another, I mean, 70. So it's not out of the question. It's not out of the question that he can get close to 400. If he goes on a run, he can get to 400, which would be incredible.

[Tom Westerholm]

Well, geez, if some of these guys would make some of these shots with all these potential assists.

[John Corrales]

Well, the potential assists are an interesting one because the potential assists are 9.3 potential assists per game this season. So he's third on the team, and he's very close. Peyton Pritchard, Derrick White right ahead of him. Derrick white leads with 10. So all of these potential assists are there for him in March, though. Total 6.6 assists per game. So he's up one and a half, 11 and a half potential assists per game. And he's also added 1.3 secondary assists per game. So one and a half, you know, so it's like a couple here. A couple. The pass. The pass. That's the assist. So Jaylen is not only moving the ball and setting up shots, he's setting up shots. Potential assists just means someone's taken a, A, a shot within one dribble of receiving a pass from Jaylen and then he's swinging the ball. The, the, the potential assist, not the, I'm sorry, the secondary assists are, are right there too. So I am, I'm impressed. I think that he's been seeing the floor incredibly well this season, especially this month. And for that to happen, for him to be kind of peaking in that, in that sense with Tatum back now that. That's just such an important development for him to be moving the ball this well when Tatum is back.

[Tom Westerholm]

It is. And I think just stylistically, the kinds of assists that he's, he's been getting this year are so impressive. I, I can't remember which game it was. It was a couple of games ago where he, he fired that one the entire way along the baseline to a three point shooter. Like, you know, he's, he's making some of these ridiculous passes that, that Tatum, you know, quite frankly, was, was the one making a couple of years ago, right, like, or last year.

[John Corrales]

Lefty pass, by the way, wasn't it? It was a lefty hook pass. Yeah, I think Shireman in the corner. That was.

[Tom Westerholm]

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it was, it was disgusting and. But it also, it was one of his better passes of the year. But also, it wasn't like outlier. It was like, you know, it was like, you know, when Vince Carter was A big dunker, and he had, like, his best dunk of the year. You were never like, oh, I can't believe Vince did that. You were like, oh, no. I mean, like, that was amazing. But, like, that's kind of what he does. And that's kind of where we're at with Jalen now, right? Where it's like he makes good passes and it's like, yeah, that's. That's kind of what he does when he makes a great one. It's like, oh, wow. Yeah, that was. That was good, even by his now kind of lofty standards. So I. The one question I had about the stats that I. I don't know if. I don't know if you're. If you have this up or anything, but what does the gap between assists and potential assists usually look like? Like, was. Is Jalen's kind of normal distance between the two? Or is that like.

[John Corrales]

Or.

[Tom Westerholm]

Or is it. Or is his a little bit more outlier? Because it does. There was a stretch there especially, I would say, about a month ago, maybe a month and a half ago, where it really felt like he was. He could have had 10, 11 assists in a bunch of games, and he just didn't because guys were missing shots. So I was curious when I. When I saw that stat that you put out, if. If the potential. If the gap between the two was bigger for him than others.

[John Corrales]

Well, let's see here. I'm trying to call it up, and of course, as I try to call it up, my Internet is not cooperating, so I don't know the answer to that. Okay, let's see. So his. His assists are 5.1, and the potential assists are 9.3. So the gap is 4.2.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Peyton Pritchards 5.3 and 9.6. Also Derek White's 5.7 and 10. So.

[Tom Westerholm]

So no, those are all pretty much exactly the same, actually.

[John Corrales]

Pretty much. Let's go to last year and. And see if. The gap is. Is any different. That all kind of. Let's see. So last season, why is my Internet. I pay enough for this Internet to be working a lot faster than this right now. Last season, the leader in assist was Jason Tatum, and the potential assist was 11.6. So you're looking about four or five.

[Tom Westerholm]

Okay.

[John Corrales]

Jalen Brown's was 4.5 assists and 8.3 potential assists. So the gap for him has grown. No. Yeah, it's grown a little bit. A little bit? Yeah, a little bit. But that's. So that's about right. So you You're. The gap between actual and potential is about four or five.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

Okay.

[Tom Westerholm]

Either way, his, his passing, like the, the style of assists are still, like, notably different. And I mean, I think that's one of the reasons his, his numbers are up this year. Right. Is because he's. He's throwing better passes for this. They're not just like, you know, kind of drop offs, which I always thought he was pretty good at. But this year's different.

[John Corrales]

Yeah, he. I think one of the things about his passing that has stood out to me is just the timing of. Especially on his drives. Yeah, there, There has been some of the. I think, I think Jalen's reputation has always been, I'm gonna drive, I'm gonna jump, and then I'm going to be like, while I'm in the air, ah, no, I'm covered hook pass, and it goes to something. And he's definitely done that plenty this year. I haven't seen it a lot lately, and I think where he's been going is, to be honest, I think I saw it more in January than anything, which might have been like a. Just a January kind of doldrums kind of thing, people kind of falling back on some bad habits. But what I've seen lately is what you want to see. I'm, you know, a drive. The defense steps up, and he's not just challenging the defense to say, okay, I'm just going to go do what I do and jump through you. It's move the ball and set somebody up, and then the ball moves a couple of times. And that could account for some of the increase in the potential or the secondary assists. But he's, he's just reading the defense, I think, a little bit better. He's reading. He's making the rim reads a lot quicker, and he's. He's getting off the ball just a little bit sooner. And that all leads to just a. A more cohesive offense. And it's not just a bunch of players who are sitting there going, okay, I'm waiting for him to get into trouble and pass. It's more. I'm just gonna get to a spot trusting that Jalen's gonna find me and he's doing it. I think that's important.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah. And I think it's. I think it's always easy for. And not to take anything away from it. I do think it is easier for a player who is a primary ball handler and scorer to, to know, like, okay, I'm gonna get off the ball because I know it's gonna come back to me like, well, right, that's, that's easier when you're, when you're the primary guy, too. But either way, your point for sure stands.

[John Corrales]

Let's flip it to the other side and Jason, because I think one of the things that stood out to me against Phoenix was Jason being just patient and understanding. You know, hey, this fourth quarter is all about Jalen. We'll talk about that when we come back. Today's show is brought to you by Indeed. Hiring is tough. You got chaos in the workplace. You got deadlines. You got that inbox. It's just way overflowing and you've got a position to fill. It's just sitting there. It's taunting you. And when the pressure hits, you might want to say, I just cross my fingers and hope that somebody's going to come through. Don't do that. Go to Indeed sponsored Jobs because they're going to help you reach the people who actually fit what you're looking for. Skills, experience, location. So you're not just hoping the right candidate stumbles across your post in the minute that I'm talking to you about Indeed. Companies like yours will hire 27 people worldwide, according to Indeed data. So if you're hiring, spend less time searching and spend more time interviewing candidates that check all your boxes. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. You get $75 in sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves. Deserves. Indeed.com podcast go to Indeed.com podcast right now. Support the show by saying you heard about indeed here indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

[Nick Engad / Nick Gangstead]

This is Nick Gangstead of the Lockdown Mavericks podcast. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I love that I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple Card, which can be automatically sent to my High Yield Savings account through Apple Card right in the Wallet app with my iPhone I can use Apple Card with Apple Pay basically everywhere I go. You can apply for Apple Card too, right in the Wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners Subject to eligibility Savings in Apple Card by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member FDIC terms and [e-mail]

[John Corrales]

thanks for making Lockdown Celtics your first listen. Every day you're an everyday or join the everyday or club. You got another day before you're out of luck. So join now. Use the code march and you get your first month free. And if you join before Thursday, you get entered into the men's and women's bracket pools on discord. You can compete against all of our hosts. And if you win, you get a hundred dollars in locked on merch. So check it out. Lockdown celtics.supercast.com Lockdown celtics.Supercast.com Joining the Everyday Air club. You get ad free version of the show. Plus the in game chats get a free month with the code March. Tom what Jason Tatum did in this game, I think I can't tell, obviously, because not in his head. I don't know how much of what he did at the end of the game was, I'm not ready to kind of be Jason Tatum in that, in that spot, to be the takeover guy. So Jaylen's got it cooking. I'm gonna, I'm gonna just chill out and, and just run the offense. It's almost like they traded places and Jalen did all the stuff Jason usually does. And, you know, I got into a lot of trouble earlier this year saying that this exact thing, thing should happen. I into a lot of trouble online and people are like, oh, I can't believe you say this, and Jason should sacrifice and blah, blah, blah. You sacrifice enough. And here we are, first opportunity, first clutch game. Jason steps aside. For whatever reason, he's not ready yet. Totally, totally fair to say that he's not ready yet. Of course he's not. It's not criticism. He just came back from an Achilles injury, but he willingly stepped aside, was a supporting player. Jaylen Brown closed this game out. He was a. He was like the big reason why they closed the game out. They went on a 142 run. Jason had a very sizable role as well. But I appreciate that Jason understood the moment, understood himself, and said, hey, the best thing for the Celtics right now, for whatever reason, whatever multiple reasons, is for me to do this this way. And this is just exactly what I wanted from these guys. Now moving forward, any team that the Celtics face in the playoffs can look at that Phoenix game and say, you know, they closed out. I know Phoenix was missing a couple of guys, but they closed out the Suns in a way that is not normal. And now we have to prepare for Jalen as a primary guy. It's just one more thing that defenses have to worry about. The more defense has to worry about, the more susceptible they are to making mistakes. So that's why I really, really like how this game ended.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, not Only do we have to prepare for Jalen as a primary guy. We also have to prepare for Jason to be on the floor defensively, because that is also a massive challenge that you now get to. That you now get to try to cope with. I mean, honestly, you watch this game, you watch the. The way the Celtics have played since Tatum came back, it's like, well, man, what does this look like when these guys are both fully healthy? Can they keep doing this? Like, can they keep kind of playing off each other and letting each other cook and. And not just letting each other cook, but, like, I mean, you know, run a pick and roll together, set screens together, you know, work off each other, use each other to. You know, because as. As much as the. Your torn my turn thing works for them, because they're both that good. I mean, it. Like, how. How can. How can you get away from that? Right? How can you. How can you. Instead of making it your turn, my turn, how can it just kind of be, you know, a little more egalitarian sometimes? Like, I think those are. Those are the things that I like you kind of. At least I kind of watch or. And wonder about. Even as Jalen is absolutely cooking right, like, down the stretch. I mean, that. That fourth quarter was ridiculous. I mean, that. That last bucket he got where that probably should have been an and one and probably should have been free throw number 22. Like, you know, it's like he's. He really just absolutely hooping. He looked amazing. And there's going to come a time when the Celtics are going to have both him and Tatum also capable of doing that together on the floor at the same time. I mean, at this point, you know, I'm getting greedy, getting ahead of myself a little bit, because, like, what we're. What we're watching right now is awesome. Like, it is really good. And it's. And it's. It's. It's really cool to see a fully realized Jalen Brown, but I think the next task. Maybe it's not this year, maybe it's next year. Whenever it is. I think the next task is figuring out how fully realized Jalen Brown and fully realized Jason Tatum can be fully realized together to where it's not just kind of, you know, taking turns and letting one guy cook, sort of.

[John Corrales]

Yeah. And look, I think the taking turns thing is also a function of the old offense. This is a new kind of offense. This is a new set of requirements for Jalen and Jason. They don't have a lot of the help that they've had before. So my turn. Your turn is, I think, sometimes a function of matchup hunting. You know, who has the matchup, right? Who has the guy who's. What. What are we. What are we looking to exploit? Pigeon hunting and all of that. I don't think you can do that quite as much with this group, you know, so it's not about, okay, here's the mismatch. We're going to get Jalen on this guy or we're going to get Jason on this guy. It's because you. You can pre switch you. You can leave some of these guys that, you know, depending on the time of. Of the game, you know, you. You Baylor, Shireman, sure, like, he's having a great season. Teams are going to leave him right in the playoffs. They're going to leave him. They're going to try like, go ahead Ugo. They're going to definitely leave Ugo.

[Tom Westerholm]

He's a rookie.

[John Corrales]

You know, they're gonna. They're gonna test everybody else. This season's Celtics has an element that other season Celtics didn't have, which is, oh, we're just gonna dare this guy to beat us. Where other previous incarnations of the Celtics, like we laughed when this was the warriors said we dare Drew Holiday to beat us. And it worked. That one time is like, that's not gonna work for four times, you know,

[Tom Westerholm]

but they also dared Jaylen Brown to beat them one time, and that was disastrous. Which.

[John Corrales]

But you can. You can dare Baylor Shireman. And is Baylor gonna beat you four times in a series? Probably not. You know, so it's like the Grant Williams thing, you know, maybe he'll get the. Maybe he'll have a Grant Williams game, right? And it just pour in however many was seven threes in in one game, he's capable of that. But point is, the Celtics are going to have to bend defenses and for Jalen and Jason to be at this point now and be so, so much more unselfish. Like, that's not the thing. We're never unselfish, but they're so much more unselfish. They're smart guys. They see. They see who's out there. They love their teammates, they think highly of their teammates, but also they see who's out there. They know. So they have to adjust their games accordingly, not just to each other, but to the whole team. And that just means, okay, if I have to start off the ball and you have to have Baylor and Sam Houser set, stagger screens and while Nemi is setting a screen for one, one Other guy and you're going to have to, like, have a lot of this action. So be it. So be it. And if you have to catch more off the, off the, you know, on the move and, and attack that way, so be it. I just think that what we're seeing now with these two guys, it's as much mixing them in with the rest of the team and making sure everybody's maximized, not just maximizing each other.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah.

[John Corrales]

And maximizing a style of play that when the playoffs come around and you can game plan, you got to make it so you can't really game plan because we're just going to make it very, very difficult for you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Yeah, Yeah. I think that's. No, I think that's right.

[John Corrales]

All right, well, we did it. That's a podcast, Tom.

[Tom Westerholm]

We. Yeah. Once again, we defied the odds.

[John Corrales]

People said we couldn't do it.

[Tom Westerholm]

We defied the pods. Some people are saying, all right, well,

[John Corrales]

I can't think of anything better. I didn't even have my sound effects there. That timing is impeccable, man. That timing was Chef's kid and my

[Tom Westerholm]

style of humor, it takes a minute for it to really sink in with people eyebrow, but, you know.

[John Corrales]

Yeah. All right, well, get on out of here. Tom, thank you.

[Tom Westerholm]

Appreciate you, man.

[John Corrales]

I appreciate you, Tom. I appreciate you too. Listening, watching, watching me in the. A different setting because behind me is a dog with a big cone on his head and I just wanted to make sure that he's doing okay. So I'm in a different part of the house. So thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. I do appreciate you being here every Monday through Friday. Got bonus podcasts throughout the week, so make sure you're checking those out. Keep an eye on your feeds. So those will drop whenever, definitely when they play on weekends. So check those out for sure. And then I would love it if you share the podcast and tell everybody they should be listening to and watching the Lockdown Celtics podcast. Here in the Lockdown Podcast Network, it's your team every day. Calling all sightseers and selfie takers. Welcome to Texas, where a day at our hiking trails will lead to a lifetime of memories and family road trips become family legends where thrill seekers make a splash into spring fed pools and picky eaters will clean their plates. This is your invitation to visit Texas and see it for yourself. Visit traveltexas.com and plan your family's trip today.

[Mazda CX5 Advertiser]

Let's Texas, you're juggling a lot, but you can still squeeze in a financial plan with the Northwestern Mutual financial advisor as your partner. It's not only possible, it's personalized. So if you're tying the knot, closing on a house or welcoming a little one, you'll be ready for whatever life tosses your way. It's the right time to feel less stressed and more certain. That's a better way to money. Let's get [e-mail] in Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

[Nick Engad / Nick Gangstead]

This episode is brought to you by Marvel Television's Born Again Season 2 streaming March 24th on Disney. Charlie Cox and Vincent D' Onofrio are back and Krysten Ritter makes her highly anticipated return as Jessica Jones in an all new season. As Mayor Fist tightens his grip on New York City, he marks Daredevil as his top target. Matt Murdoch fights from the shadows, hoping to bring down Fisk's corrupt empire and reclaim his city. Don't miss Daredevil Born Again Season 2 streaming March 24th only on Disney Plus.